TL Mafia 5 [Game Over]

On March 17 2009 12:23 Qatol wrote:
In accordance with our deal (the candidate who enticed the most TL staff/ex-staff to play gets my vote),
I vote for BloodyC0bbler for sheriff/mayor

On March 17 2009 14:01 MoRe_mInErAls wrote:


Seeing as you got your role so early (I haven't even received mine yet) leads me to conclude you have either an important special role or you are MAFIA

On March 17 2009 17:10 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
Anyone want to comment on my Pika Chu analysis?

On March 17 2009 23:28 fusionsdf wrote:
He has the soundest clue analysis by far. This is a much better way to choose than what someone did last game/what they say they will do this game.

Its much harder for a mafia to fake a good clue analysis (but still possible) than it is to just fake the town out by saying things like "I was a good townie last time!" ""I'm dedicated!"

On March 17 2009 23:51 BWdero wrote:


So semi, if you don't really want to be an elected offcial, why are you running? I mean, electing someone that isn't motivated would be a pretty bad idea. Could you elaborate on your motivations for running a bit.

On March 18 2009 03:20 BWdero wrote:



I'm sorry but you aren't making sense. First you say you enjoy being green more then anyhing and then you say you are running because being elected will make sure you aren't green. What? Am I misunderstanding something here?

On March 18 2009 03:32 Qatol wrote:
semioldguy/Caller/nemy/motbob/lurker/anyone else who is running for sheriff that I have not yet addressed (sorry, but there are a lot of you and I might have missed someone) what do you plan to do upon getting into office? What sort of plan do you offer to the town?

I just want to get some talk going on this one: When do we want to use our double lynches? I argue that we want to use them days 3-5 because those are early enough to do damage to the mafia but aren't complete guesses either. Remember, we have to vote for the double lynch the day BEFORE we can use it, so we need to start talking about this now if anyone thinks it is a good idea to double lynch day 2.

On March 18 2009 04:34 MrBabyHands wrote:


there's no way to know if the person who's incarcerated is mafia this way. since the mafia doesnt have to use all their kill power every night, watching for a change in KP wont work. If an innocent gets locked up, the mafia can just nix their own KP temporarily, making the prisoner appear guilty.

i agree that the jail should be used for the mafia-- at the very least it'll reduce their KP if we get it right. But its not good for verifying if they are mafia or not. A smart mafia would see this weakness and use it against the town.

On March 18 2009 04:51 BloodyC0bbler wrote:


My bad, I didnt read the sheriff role correctly.
Have the person step forward, dt is going to check them, now, medic usually will have pm'd the victim their role, i would also say, PM the sheriff.

The green/blue claims they were hit, dt goes to check, that night 1-3 meds protect the target, others do as normal. Sheriff calls to jail medic who was hit.

Person hit turns up red(could be miller or mafia) If its red, they are obviously up to get raped. Medic gets checked next day, they turn up as red we have two mafia, or a mafia and a miller.
medic turns up blue he is actual medic, and guy was hit and is a miller(would be kickass to know)
he turns up green, and he is either a douche or the GF which would make the person hit miller or mafia.

We can greatly narrow down roles in that small instance.

as for when to use double lynches, id say earlier than day 3-4 is almost a waste, as lynching is done mainly on strong clues or strong behaviour analysis, nothing is really solid till then.

On March 18 2009 05:11 Qatol wrote:


Umm the mafia can do this just as easily as a vigi can. The only way this works is if the vigi hits red.

On March 18 2009 05:23 Qatol wrote:


Nope it doesn't even help if the mafia use all their hits. Who is to say that that vigi is the only one acting that night? I don't think we can really do anything to confirm a vigi at this point. This is why I think BC's medic/DT/experienced player plan is better.

On March 18 2009 05:36 ahswtini wrote:
Can mafia target their own this game?

Mafia - Your goal is to eliminate everyone else in the town. Your ability, as a group, is killing off whomever you decide on at night and knowing the role of each other player in the mafia. You may not kill other mafia. Mafia killing power is decided after signups are closed and will be shown next to the mafia count in the player count lists.

On March 18 2009 05:39 Qatol wrote:


I disagree. If the vigis do that, it just gets them killed. The mafia can just hit the same target and mess with the clues (which are important this game). And if the mafia hit the vigi first, the town loses the hit. Vigis should hitclaim in private. Possibly with an elected role, better still with a confirmed townie.

A special note on roles: All roles must be used at night and only the Detective clue check ability and Medic ability may be used on Day 1. Roles may be declared before night but they will not happen until night. Sheriff and Mayor will hide the roles of the elected players so that a Detective role check will show them as Sheriff/Mayor and nothing else.

On March 18 2009 05:45 Qatol wrote:


Yeah you're right. The only reason I can think of other than that is maybe to allow the mafia to hit your targets for you. There is a chance that you both will want to hit the same player, in which case declaring publicly will let them avoid that hit.

Regardless, I think we agree this is a weak plan at best. Shall we get back to punching holes in BC's plan and/or creating a different one?

On March 18 2009 05:48 mikeymoo wrote:

I'm going to agree with this.
#I vote for Pyrrhuloxia

On another note, I've quickly skimmed through some of these plans, and it seems that detectives checking someone out may be foiled by the Miller role? Correct me if I'm wrong, it's one of those "wake up to 5 new pages and can't be bothered yet" things that comes with the game.

On March 18 2009 06:40 CompX wrote:



I think the third person is deaf as u guys said and the possible suspect is semioldguy.
Just saying my thoughts.

On March 18 2009 06:54 mikeymoo wrote:

Old people --> hearing problems.

On March 18 2009 07:39 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:


yeah you did. my mistake.

also what i did was run a ctrl+f for "vote for" but now that i am going back it looks like there are some votes that weren't posted in the correct format. Updated list comin in a minute.

On March 18 2009 08:07 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
I think vigis should call out their hits beforehand since they only have one hit (making sure to send in their hit really early so it goes through). If the mafia use all of their kill power that night we will have a verified blue - if they lay off with killing power to try to make the person look suspicious, that would be stupid of them because we will have successfully deterred them and if they don't kill the vet we can medic protect him into a figurehead. If the vet dies that night (most likely) at least their hit went through and the vet getting killed is essentially a green at that point and much better than losing a DT / Medic / BG etc.

On March 18 2009 08:33 fusionsdf wrote:
In other words BC.

Assume The Sheriff is Mafia. Tell me how you plan to prevent the medic from being killed.

Assume the 'vet' is Mafia. Tell me how you plan to prevent the medic from being killed.

On March 18 2009 08:37 fusionsdf wrote:






I don't get it.

What do you guys disagree about?

On March 18 2009 08:49 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
I forgot to say in my last post that if the Vigi gets lucky and picks a mafia it forces the mafia to not use a KP or we get a confirmed blue - of course the vigi probably gets killed but who knows the mafia might eff up and get disorganized and we might as well give them the chance.

On March 18 2009 08:33 fusionsdf wrote:
In other words BC.

Assume The Sheriff is Mafia. Tell me how you plan to prevent the medic from being killed.


Assume the 'vet' is Mafia. Tell me how you plan to prevent the medic from being killed.

On March 18 2009 10:59 Ace wrote:



...

Vigis don't have a lot of shots this game. If a Vigi hits Tim the innocent Townie he is no longer confirmed. End of the plan.

If Bob the Vigi turns out to hit Mafia, then all medic prot goes to Bob(who can still be killed) after he's been jailed for a night and everyone else gets killed. Sure, Bob can pass on his unsorted list of liars to someone else - but who does he pass it on to? He can't confirm anyone himself because da da da - he's just a vigi!

see how many holes this plan has even if you get everything right by chance?

On March 20 2009 05:35 Chuiu wrote:
Also, whatever moderator changed the title of the thread it might be best to leave it at TL Mafia 5 if you can't change it every time we switch from morning and night. :o

On March 20 2009 06:26 redtooth wrote:

haha. how much power are you allowed to use? posting history and stuff like that? are there records about when people logged on and such that you are allowed to access?

sounds sort of cheap though...

On March 20 2009 08:10 Ace wrote:


Yes. This is why it's so crucial medics get lucky on the first night with protections. Since Vigilantes can't act tonight, if a medic stops a hit on Night 1 they know for sure their target is innocent.

On March 20 2009 08:20 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
Are we still in agreement vigis should call their hits? I think we've shown they probably shouldn't say who they will attack because the mafia will try to steal their kill but maybe they should say they will hit someone just so we know whether medic protections can be trusted 100% for innocence that night or not.

On March 20 2009 08:31 Ace wrote:
The other problem also being is that what happens if the Vigi is a fake, but a real vigi targets him and he gets medic protected? x_x

On March 20 2009 09:33 Ace wrote:
@Semi: and....why would the other vigi call his hit out too? That would be insane. Now you have TWO vigi kills that can be messed with. You guys keep forgetting this plan at best works if the target is MAFIA. Otherwise it's always a loss.

Also remember the chances of a vigi hitting a medic target, especially if we assume everyone is paying attention is 0. The target would have to be someone highly suspected as you guys put it right? The only other way is if the Vigi did a random kill and the medic did a random protection and both were the same people - something you can't solve easily in this game. Medics are going to use Night 1 to figure things out, and from then IF their protted target is hit on any other night they can just retrace steps to figure if it was a random vigi hit or a Mafia hit.

What you're suggesting puts too much out there for little gain. Really, no one needs to know publicly who's going to be hit by a Vigilante before it happens. sure he can send his PM in before the Mafia, but it doesn't mean shit unless the guy flips MAFIA. If it's innocent - we go right back to square one.

On March 20 2009 10:13 JL13 wrote:
2) Do vigi's stay silent and pray medics don't protect the target?

On March 20 2009 10:48 redtooth wrote:

Am I the only one questioning why a medic would protect a suspected mafia or a potential vigilante target? Pyrr's plan right now makes no sense. It would make some sense if the vigilante role claimed to SoG in private. That would actually produce the same results without the vigilante risking death. If the hit doesn't go through then SoG can publicly call the fake vigi out and it's probably gg for that dude.

Anyways, what's so important about getting the vigi exposed. I thought it'd be fine with him just keeping to the shadows and coming out in obvious situations. As long as medic doesn't act a fool and protect someone who is generally suspected of being mafia (even someone like Pikachu) then I'm sure vigis and medics won't collide.

On March 20 2009 10:59 redtooth wrote:
Like what. We prove that one guy is innocent. However, that man isn't even blue anymore because he used his power and now has all the use of a green towny. He's not useful to start a town circle around because he only has 1 life. I haven't thought too deep about it and may be missing a fragment of a grand plan but seriously doesn't look like there's much to gain with all this trouble.

What does this all mean? All veteran players are sitting ducks. It's impossible to protect everyone night 1 and there's a very high chance a blue or two is going to die on the first night. Sheriff can't do anything about it and the Mafia don't have to worry about Vigis yet.
Why in the fuck would a vigilante waste his hit so early? I am in no way suggesting we even protect the Vigis that call out hits, that's nowhere near the reasons I have been stating.

Now do you see the problem? If we reveal Vigilantes the Mafia get the added bonus of not only sniping vets but cherry picking how to counteract the Vigilante.
How do they counteract a Vigilante exactly? How can it benefit the Mafia to know who a vigilante is after he has used up his ability? Please provide some sort of scenario where the town is disadvantaged and/or the mafia is advantaged

The second set of clues yet isn't up and if you throw Vigis in there it's just going to be a mess. There isn't going to be any direction in searching for clues because you don't even have enough clues yet to compare what you might get yet. It's pointless.
But by the time Vigis can kill... there will be more clues. They can't even kill the first night and it is mentioned in Chuiu's post if you read it

They do NOT need to be known. Period.

Secondly let's assume your second situation happened. If the KP is 6 and there are 7 deaths how does that prove the Vigi that claimed hit the target? It doesnt because you don't know if any other vigis acted either.
Unless they are under the understanding that all Vigis who act need to name their target before it happens. This also prevents Vigis overlapping. Sure they get it back but they could die before they get to use their next hit which is essentially the same as them not using their hit at all and just dying.

Or what happens in the case where there are only 6 death and innocent dies that the Vigi called out but you didn't know that a medic stopped a mafia hit? You don't. You just said it yourself - you stopped 1 Mafia KP to put suspicion on a potential green, except you didn't stop the Mafia KP.
Then someone would end up coming forward saying they were protected. If it's not true then either one or the other or both are lying and we now have a suspect in a group of two. Seems pretty good to me. We don't trust either of them regardless, we wouldn't have trusted them before the incident either.

If an innocent dies during the night the Mafia would gladly have it come from the Vigi because really, who cares how it happened? An innocent died. You've just given the Mafia the advantage of added confusion in the town now having to figure out if this guy is legit.
Then we just don't worry about it. If all Vigis hold themselves to the same standard there is much less possible confusion than you suggest. We don't trust him regardless, but that doesn;t mean we have to waste time on him, just let that person go. Either he is innocent and letting him be doesn't hurt us or he is Mafia faking it and before very long it should be apparent that the numbers don't add up (it's not like it's a very large number) and then we have a certain mafia on a small list with a minimum 25% shot at getting him if it was random (which it isn't) compared to the current 18% if we just chose at random from the entire group. It's not like a Vigi who doesn't call a target is immune to killing someone innocent and then how are we any better off in that situation?

On March 20 2009 11:44 JL13 wrote:
Vigi can claim their hit was refunded, but then everything happens all over again, you have a Vigi with a wasted power until he chooses a red target. By then, that vigi should be dead anyway.

On March 20 2009 11:33 Bockit wrote:


Addressing this, and everyone worried about mafia canceling out a vigi hit:



It doesn't matter if you call your hit out, if your target is mafia, they can't kill their own guy, your hit will go through. If your target is innocent, then if mafia kill it first, your hit is refunded. If a vigi also targets the player, one of the two hits is refunded.

I think all this discussion on the topic is pointless, there is so little to be gained from claiming your hits before hitting them player as a vigi and about as little to be gained by not claiming. I say we leave it to the vigis and focus on something a little more relevant, like, I don't know, clue/behaviour analysis. We have nearly 30 pages of posts to work with already here.

Writeups in morning post may not happen in the same order people PM me them but actions will.

On March 20 2009 12:55 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:

he can also never have his kill refunded because the mafia will always hit a blue or green that the vigi isn't targetting.

edit blue or green instead of blue

On March 20 2009 16:59 blue_arrow wrote:


how come whenever somebody gets killed by something sharp, or whenever something is described as sharp, people always point to me?

this superficial connection has been made in almost every single mafia game I've been in =p

On March 20 2009 18:59 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
EDIT: Wrong thread.

On March 20 2009 18:59 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
WTF was bisu thinking with this build - Fantasy =/= fOrGG

On March 20 2009 18:59 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
WTF was bisu thinking with this build - Fantasy =/= fOrGG

EDIT TO ADD: wrong thread obviously :'(

On March 20 2009 20:50 Bockit wrote:
Something about Caller too. If he is mafia, it means one of the 4 candidates BC, SOG, Pyrr or MBH are mafia. Why? The only reason for him to cancel his election is to get another mafia player into power. There are huge, huge positives for having a mafia player in that position of power (Rolechecks show up as sheriff/mayor and not mafia), so the only reason I can come up with for him to pull out like that would be to instead get another of the mafia players into office.

Which means we should look at who he voted for, and who else voted for them.

Keep in mind this only matters if he flips red, but if he does, then yeah, we might catch a crapload of mafia.

EDIT: Editing because I refuse to triple post:

Hahahahaha.

He voted for MBH, which is coincidentally who I voted for. Teach me to hit submit before checking these things.

I guess it's possible he voted off the mafia train so as to lessen the suspicion on himself aftr pulling out of the election.

Again this is all relevant only if Caller is in fact mafia.

On March 20 2009 21:59 Caller wrote:

Firstly, I will admit that I have been very busy recently with exams. They are finished now so I can pay more attention.
Secondly, I will also say that the reason I quit my campaign was that I had these exams, and felt there was no point in running without an effective campaign.
Thirdly, I had a grand total of one vote. If I were mafia, I would most likely have more votes: after all, having started running before the roles, I could have a good reason for my innocence (ala aces game).
The one vote also wouldn't help a mafia mayor get elected:p
Although I will admit that my behavior is much different this round, I have a good reason for it.

On March 21 2009 06:39 redtooth wrote:
Ok. So you log on TL and the first thing you see is that you have a PM. Whether you previously remembered you were in the mafia game or not doesn't matter because that shining "1" in the top left corner is going to alert you that your role has arrived. There's nobody on this forum that has enough patience to NOT check what role you got.

On March 21 2009 14:15 Ace wrote:
ah wow. BC can you explain why you put me in jail?

On March 19 2009 22:43 Ace wrote:
Ladies and Gentleman, I present to you - The Plan.

...

Camlito
Qatol
BloodyC0bbler
Ver
Caller
Bockit
iNfuNdiBuLuM
Ace (<~~ Hey look you're on this list!)
MrBabyHands
Versatile
Scaramanga
JL13


That's a list of twelve potential targets, for fun let's call them the The Zodiac Brave.

...

Also, we have to decide who the Sheriff should lock up for the night. It has to be one of these 12. No matter what we try to do, the medics can't protect everyone and the Mafia will stack kills even with RoL dead to take out some vets. Whoever we lock up out of the vets, has to be plain green Towny. Sure they might have to role claim but we can't afford to lock up any critical blue roles on Night 1.

On March 21 2009 20:50 malongo wrote:
Ok here i go first of all the 1 morning post, i bolded the parts i consider could be clues
-I tried to select small parts
-I tried to get as much info as i could, since i expected here to be clues to all mafia (at least subtle ones).
As night settled in the town of Liquidia all was silent. Except for the explosion in City Hall. The sheriff, Chuiu, ran out of his office across the street to see the building crumbling in on itself. He ran towards the building and stopped just at the steps when he spotted the mayor, Incognito, lying on the ground amongst the rubble. Chuiu helped Incognito to his feet and was briefed on the situation. A handful of individuals identifying themselves as part of the local mob family had destroyed City Hall in an attempt to kill Incognito. He got to the door just before the explosion and was caught in the shockwave. Chuiu took a few steps toward the building to see if he could find anyone in or around it. Then he spotted three running away from the back of the building. Chuiu ran after them and left Incognito alone.

He finally caught up with them a few moments later as they were getting in a car. He noticed they weren't leaving right away, what could they be waiting for? It didn't matter, he made a quick call for backup and decided to catch them off guard before they had a chance to leave. Approaching with gun drawn he demanded they get out of their car. Two of them exited. They approached Chuiu slowly and he backed up to a safer distance keeping the gun aimed at them. When they stopped he lowered the gun slightly and told them to put their hands behind their backs and get on the ground, then he yelled at the third person to get out of the car. One of the mafia complied and began lowering down to the ground, Chuiu raised his gun at the other and yelled at him to do the same. But while he did so the mafia lowering himself sprinted toward Chuiu and with his hands still behind his head grabbed the gun and threw it to the side. He tackled Chuiu to the ground and then ran over to the gun and armed himself with it. The other mafia, now between Chuiu and the armed one, walked slowly up to Chuiu. He reached out his hand as if to help Chuiu up, Chuiu grabbed his hand with a puzzled look on his face and began to get up. But then the mafia pulled him close and stabbed him in the chest. They left Chuiu to bleed to death and got back into the car and drove to City Hall.

Over at City Hall Incognito just realized something the mafia might have missed. He began sifting through the rubble thinking he could score something to help catch the mafia. What he didn't know was one stayed back to make sure he was dead. He was shoved forward while hunched over pulling some concrete away and smashed his head into a large chunk of debris. He turned himself around to face the man and knew that whatever could be found was lost. With one shot to the head Incognito's life was ended.

As police began arriving one by one there were no witnesses or mafia to be found. Just the two bodies and the rubble where City Hall once stood. The town officials quickly set up a election to determine who would be the new Mayor and capable Sheriff to lead the town to safety from these dangerous criminals.

On March 22 2009 03:23 Pika Chu wrote:
So if Mandalor proves to be red, there can be no further doubts about semioldguy.

On March 24 2009 09:31 malongo wrote:

Actually we cant do too much until next day. Medics should be catching hits this night and the rest of the blues should refrain to roleclaim you.

He reached out his hand as if to help Chuiu up, Chuiu grabbed his hand with a puzzled look on his face and began to get up.

Just a block over Versatile was digging a hole in the ground looking for something.

Camlito
Qatol
BloodyC0bbler
Ver
Caller
Bockit
iNfuNdiBuLuM
Ace
MrBabyHands
Versatile
Scaramanga
JL13


That's a list of twelve potential targets, for fun let's call them the The Zodiac Brave.

On March 24 2009 14:23 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:

What does no results mean? You checked if it was a clue and it wasn't? Or Chuiu didn't return your PM?

On March 24 2009 21:57 malongo wrote:
As we cant make rolechecks this day the best chance is to start digging into clues. Instead of trying direct cluechecks on players we need to start on a solid base, that is to confirm that something is a clue (i think this game will last for at least 3 more days and cluechecks are infinite but rolechecks dont). For that purpose i suggest the dt team to check if these are or not clues before going further, of course there are other interesting choices i just selected themes repeating in the posts and matched them in colors, please dts read me !

On March 26 2009 13:42 CompX wrote:
I am just wondering if mafia can attack mayor?

On March 27 2009 00:44 Caller wrote:
Medics, Watch These People Tonight.

Caller
Bockit
MrBabyHands
JL13

Also note that it is quite likely that at least one of them is mafia.

On March 27 2009 08:42 CompX wrote:
Day 4 yet?

On March 28 2009 12:28 ZaplinG wrote:
Lol why?

I also saw that people are roleclaiming now? Is it safe?

On April 03 2009 14:12 ydg wrote:
You guys never suspected me though