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On March 19 2008 03:44 qrs wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2008 03:39 Ace wrote:
I agree with some of this randombum. The Bodyguard plan is not the full plan I would use, it's just a start that gets information around and gets the town into a good setting.
Whether or not the BG roles need to be revealed is a different issue and I think it's worth telling at a certain time. In most Mafia games, the town does something called Role Claiming which is a great thing to do. It brings out conflicts because surely Mafia members need to claim SOMETHING.
However, the Mayor + BodyGuards DO have the power to change the voting. Remember, if everyone knows that the plan is being followed and nothing comes out about a guilty mayor, then they must be innocent. And if the innocent Mayor has a committee of innocents, that drops the suspect list down to 122, gets information flowing, and eliminates red herrings in clue posts.
Surely, that is a much better plan than what we have now?
wait, what DO we have now? Let's discuss what we have now. Like I said, who becomes mayor is less important than what he does. Ace, do you (or anyone else) disagree with me that the best thing to do with the bodyguards is reveal one and let him find out everyone's role?
Thats perfect. Bodyguard plan-> known innocent-> information sharing (most important)-> coordinated effort. HOWEVER, I don't think we need to sacrifice a bodyguard. The information could be sent to the mayor on Day 2 instead who will then become the town leader. Why do you think we should risk a bodyguard for something the mayor can do?
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Because the bodyguards are the only people that we know to be innocent. How do we find out whether the mayor is Mafia short of wasting half our detectives' yes/no questions?
Once one bodyguard has all the information, he can PM it to the others, who are not known. By the second day, ONE detective can check the mayor, and if he is innocent, he can become the spokesman.
Besides, the one bodyguard can be protected (or fake-protected) by medics.
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Ok so as an addendum to the plan:
Once the Mayor is confirmed innocent, he/she is the mouthpiece of the committe (Mayor + BGs).
After that, by day 2 we have a new course of action:
check clues, look for suspects.
Investigate the Pardoner.
Any innocents can PM the Mayor their role, who will share this with the committee.
randombum: I'll talk more about role claiming at a later date.
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Isn't it more advantageous to have both the mayor and pardoner on the same "line"?
Should we consider that when voting...like making a sure a pair of mayor-pardoner that can work together well?
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Ghar's "detective" propostion has a high cost: we blow half of our detectives' most important ability on the first night. What do we gain for losing this? We know whether or not our mayor is Mafia. But this is not even such valuable information! If he is elected already, there is nothing we can do about losing the double lynches. THE "DETECTIVE PLAN" IS NOT WORTH IT.
8 investigates, it's unlikely the detectives will find a mafia with each one. particularly when mafia have 9 kills a night. What I propose is detectives working together, using their other abilities. To do that though, they need total confidence in the mayor.
What would you propose the detectives do? Work alone? Trust the mayor without really being sure?
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Since the leading candidates disagree with me, I will cast my hat into the ring: I am running for mayor. Why am I running? To implement the bodyguard plan with revealing a single bodyguard. Why do that? To coordinate our forces and save our special powers as much as possible. How will you know I'm not Mafia? A single detective will confirm it.
A vote for me is a vote for this plan, plain and simple. There's no other reason that I'm running. If any of the current leaders endorse it, I'll be happy to withdraw from the race and cede any votes I get to them.
Edit: re Ghar's post above mine, to clarify my proposition:
Before the detectives use their powers, I hope to have them organized, so that they do not duplicate their efforts (same goes for medics, etc.) I don't want the detectives to work alone--on the contrary, I want them to work with the one towny they can trust: the bodyguard.
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On March 19 2008 03:54 zeks wrote:
Isn't it more advantageous to have both the mayor and pardoner on the same "line"?
Should we consider that when voting...like making a sure a pair of mayor-pardoner that can work together well? To be honest the pardoner seems like a useless position for a towny until maybe really really late in the game. The only good thing that comes from granting someone Pardoner status is the bodyguard protection, so we don't really need a pardoner who works well with the mayor. We just need to put a towny that we want to keep protected.
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On March 19 2008 03:55 Ghar wrote:Show nested quote +Ghar's "detective" propostion has a high cost: we blow half of our detectives' most important ability on the first night. What do we gain for losing this? We know whether or not our mayor is Mafia. But this is not even such valuable information! If he is elected already, there is nothing we can do about losing the double lynches. THE "DETECTIVE PLAN" IS NOT WORTH IT. 8 investigates, it's unlikely the detectives will find a mafia with each one. particularly when mafia have 9 kills a night. What I propose is detectives working together, using their other abilities. To do that though, they need total confidence in the mayor. What would you propose the detectives do? Work alone? Trust the mayor without really being sure?
learn to quote
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On March 18 2008 22:02 Lenwe wrote:Sonuvbob has 4 votes already, despite having given very little reason to vote for him other than him being able to see edits and having other mod powers. Also he announced that he was running for mayor at 16:09 (TL time) with this post: Show nested quote +
Ah what the hell,
I'm announcing my candidacy for mayor.
My platform: Being less of a douche than Steve was
He got his first vote in the voting thread at 16:14, 5 minutes later, before he even made a second post. The person voting for him was LTT. I don't know if he participated in the previous TL mafia (I couldn't find that post anywhere), but if someone can confirm that? If he did, it makes it even more suspicious for me, because he knows the game and yet still votes for someone right after he reads the post, even though the reasoning behind Sonuvbob running for mayor at that time was just that he would be less of a douche that FS. Mafia promoting their candidate too early?
LTT was my mafia discussion buddy last game. :p
On March 19 2008 02:23 GeneralStan wrote:
The other candidates platforms in a nutshell:
Randombum - PMed everybody in the game. Shows he has time, but does he have the chops?
SoMuchBetter - PMed everybody in the game to show Randombum didn't do anything special, and he's funny. Almost worthy of a vote in entertainment value alone.
Sonuvbob - Better than fakesteve. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DO NOT VOTE FOR SONUVBOB.
Empyrean - "I'm a detective". Either foolhardy or deceptive, not my vote in either case.
Bitter about your ban?
On March 18 2008 18:53 xDark.Carnivalx wrote:
edit to add in after reading your new post ace: i don't know if people are seriously voting based on his knowledge of c++ or whatever, but i know part of my voting for him is his intiative to list all of it in one easy to find post; it makes looking for quotes and things to relate to clues easier, and that benefits the town.
That was my idea. Vote for me, I have ideas!
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On March 19 2008 03:57 Falcynn wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2008 03:54 zeks wrote:
Isn't it more advantageous to have both the mayor and pardoner on the same "line"?
Should we consider that when voting...like making a sure a pair of mayor-pardoner that can work together well? To be honest the pardoner seems like a useless position for a towny until maybe really really late in the game. The only good thing that comes from granting someone Pardoner status is the bodyguard protection, so we don't really need a pardoner who works well with the mayor. We just need to put a towny that we want to keep protected.
Pardoner is actually very powerful if the Town is somehow mob voting and the Pardoner figures out in time if something is fishy.
The Pardoner should pretty much be treated as a second Mayor, since that person should also be pretty good at leading the Town and figuring things out.
And yes, the last point that it should be someone we want to protect should be taken into account.
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On March 19 2008 04:02 SonuvBob wrote:
Bitter about your ban?
Lol, no I fully deserved it.
I just think you're not saying much, you're only claim is to be better than FakeSteve, and FakeSteve was really really bad. It's like saying I'm better than Mumyung! whoopdy doo
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I've decided to change my mind and run for mayor, but I would like the pardoner spot.
The pardoner spot last game was not used at all. Indeed, Tracil didn't pardon a single person even though he was towny, and even though many of the people that were lynched were townies as well. For instance he didn't pardon Live2Win and Nightmare, both of whom had plenty of evidence against other people. I would like to be pardoner in order to use my ability with more care.
And what of it? If Ace's bodyguard plan is enabled, the mayor can send messages to the pardoner to pardon certain people that may be in danger of being lynched, i.e. bodyguards. However, if the pardoner is stubborn, he/she may not take advice and decide to act unilaterally, which is a bad thing. If the pardoner is also mafia, he/she can choose to listen, which may or may not help the mafia depending on who was pardoned, or they could choose not to listen, which would either incriminate the pardoner and/or the mayor.
I hope I've demonstrated that I flipflop a lot in the previous game, and while this may be bad, it means I am more open-minded than perhaps other people. Because I have little to do, I might be able to jump in and pardon people if I am informed that they are in danger.
If I am elected mayor somehow that would be interesting. But I don't think I would be qualified as a mayor more than Ace. That's why I would rather be pardoner.
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4492 Posts
On March 19 2008 03:13 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2008 02:59 Lysithea wrote:On March 19 2008 02:13 Lysithea wrote:
...
If Empyrean is a DT he could be very valuable as pardoner but it's something about the whole thing that just feels out of place. I'm tempted to vote for him, not for mayor but as pardoner. Wish we could have more campaigning from his side. My question to all of you is: would it be beneficial enough for mafia to even attempt the stunt empyrean is employing? Would it be reasonable? I'm asking cause I'm not sure whether to vote for Empyrean or someone else in the case of me voting for a pardoner spot.
... Reposting this part from my own post since I really want peoples thoughts on this. Ok here's my take - it would be a pretty good idea from a Mafia standpoint. 1.) Empryean did very well last game 2.) For some reason, people think the probability of him being Mafia again has changed when it really hasn't 3.) He claims a role that is important and can't be verified right now 4.) Most importantly, it adds confusion to the game 4 is the prime reason that if I were Mafia, it would be a great tool. People trust Empryean, and if another DT comes and investigates him well they'd be hard pressed to prove it - and now the Mafia knows another DT role with nothing else weighing in on their decisions aka an easy kill. Thats an element of confusion that takes away from the main focus, and the easiest way for the Mafia to win is to confuse the Townies. I'm not saying Empryean is Mafia, but that was a very risky move. There was no point in revealing his alleged role so early in the game. Maybe he's afraid that he'd be killed early and is innocent after all - and if that's the case for someone so smart he should have provided a better angle of campaigning.
I agree.
What really goes against Empyrian here is that since he did well last game this feeble move right now seems like quite a misstep.
Doesn't look right.
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When I think about the way I handled clues last game, I tried to find out which clue pointed to which Mafioso, and then misinterpret that clue in order to make it point to as many people as possible, including the Mafioso.
This might be the same thing :p
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current vote count that I have:
LastRomantic - aznvaliance (1)
Empyrean - LastRomantic, Meta,Eti307,Showtime,MTF,BloodyC0bbler,RST Nightmare,NatsuTerran,Solosteer,Jim Tudor,nemy,decafchicken (13)
Ace - CDRdude,Joxxor,Ghar,spoinka,Hittegods,Hollander,Naib,useless,GeneralStan,Shadowdrgn, Lysithea,Falcynn,zeks,Mynock,Caller (15)
randombum - Drdragoon,Alethios,G.S)Naruto,Sadir,fanatacist,Bockit,GranDim,Ninja4ever, so no fek,shallow[bay] (10)
fusionsdf - plexa,ZBIR (2)
plexa - ssj100,Seifu (2)
Sonuvbob - LTT.wurm,Heros)Pink (2)
Ghar - Ace,ahrara,Pangolin,Mandalor,Amber[Light],rpf,Ziel (7)
araav - SonuvBob,RowdierBob,Klive5ive,xdark,Neax,Energies,qsr (7)
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well lol, i guess since the King Brown Snake is from Australia...oh wait theres like 6 Australians 
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On March 18 2008 19:33 Empyrean wrote:
I just woke up!
I'm running for mayor as well.
I have previous mafia experience, and have a good idea of how mafia like to conduct things.
Furthermore, I'll take everyone's opinion into consideration, as well as analyze everything myself.
The most important reason, and this is kind of risky saying it, but I am a detective. If I'm elected mayor, I'll be guaranteed to be safe from mafia attacks so I can publish my detective results daily, giving us a large boost. If you want, I can ask some easy questions confirming people's roles so they can back me up. The possibility of a Detective Mayor is something in the town's favor.
Also, if you don't vote for me now, mafia will target me first night and the town'll be down a detective without me even asking anything :[
We know how you work Empyrean, Prove it.
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I'll vote for SonuvBob but he has to promise to be like FakeSteve.
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I agree with quite a lot that has been said. I don't think we can accuse anyone of being mafia so far unless they do something strange. The only strange thing I've seen so far is Emp announcing himself a detective, which has deffinately put him on my radar as suspicious. For the rest I just want to vote for the mayor that comes of as the least suspicious and has an actual plan.
I am liking the bodyguard idea that Ace put forward. It seems it can work really well, even if it would cost us one bodyguard, coordinating all the efforts of our special roles is probably worth it. He is getting a lot of votes right now though, so if that continues he will probably become mayor anyway and I am more interested in getting someone else with good idea's in the pardoner role. Randomburn is making quite a lot of sense as well so far.
So I am withholding my vote for now to see if Ace will indeed take a huge lead and perhaps for other candidates to announce they are running for mayor.
Oh and, fair enough Sonuvbob.
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EPT
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