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TL Mafia 2 [GG] - Page 30

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randombum
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States2378 Posts
March 18 2008 18:49 GMT
#581
On March 19 2008 03:44 qrs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2008 03:39 Ace wrote:
I agree with some of this randombum. The Bodyguard plan is not the full plan I would use, it's just a start that gets information around and gets the town into a good setting.

Whether or not the BG roles need to be revealed is a different issue and I think it's worth telling at a certain time. In most Mafia games, the town does something called Role Claiming which is a great thing to do. It brings out conflicts because surely Mafia members need to claim SOMETHING.

However, the Mayor + BodyGuards DO have the power to change the voting. Remember, if everyone knows that the plan is being followed and nothing comes out about a guilty mayor, then they must be innocent. And if the innocent Mayor has a committee of innocents, that drops the suspect list down to 122, gets information flowing, and eliminates red herrings in clue posts.

Surely, that is a much better plan than what we have now?

wait, what DO we have now?

Let's discuss what we have now. Like I said, who becomes mayor is less important than what he does. Ace, do you (or anyone else) disagree with me that the best thing to do with the bodyguards is reveal one and let him find out everyone's role?


Thats perfect. Bodyguard plan-> known innocent-> information sharing (most important)-> coordinated effort. HOWEVER, I don't think we need to sacrifice a bodyguard. The information could be sent to the mayor on Day 2 instead who will then become the town leader. Why do you think we should risk a bodyguard for something the mayor can do?
qrs
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3637 Posts
March 18 2008 18:51 GMT
#582
Because the bodyguards are the only people that we know to be innocent. How do we find out whether the mayor is Mafia short of wasting half our detectives' yes/no questions?
Once one bodyguard has all the information, he can PM it to the others, who are not known. By the second day, ONE detective can check the mayor, and if he is innocent, he can become the spokesman.

Besides, the one bodyguard can be protected (or fake-protected) by medics.
'As per the American Heart Association, the beat of the Bee Gees song "Stayin' Alive" provides an ideal rhythm in terms of beats per minute to use for hands-only CPR. One can also hum Queen's "Another One Bites The Dust".' —Wikipedia
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
March 18 2008 18:51 GMT
#583
Ok so as an addendum to the plan:

Once the Mayor is confirmed innocent, he/she is the mouthpiece of the committe (Mayor + BGs).

After that, by day 2 we have a new course of action:

check clues, look for suspects.
Investigate the Pardoner.
Any innocents can PM the Mayor their role, who will share this with the committee.

randombum: I'll talk more about role claiming at a later date.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
zeks
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Canada1068 Posts
March 18 2008 18:54 GMT
#584
Isn't it more advantageous to have both the mayor and pardoner on the same "line"?

Should we consider that when voting...like making a sure a pair of mayor-pardoner that can work together well?
"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I-- I took the one less traveled by, And that has made all the difference."
Ghar
Profile Joined March 2008
Australia62 Posts
March 18 2008 18:55 GMT
#585
Ghar's "detective" propostion has a high cost: we blow half of our detectives' most important ability on the first night. What do we gain for losing this? We know whether or not our mayor is Mafia. But this is not even such valuable information! If he is elected already, there is nothing we can do about losing the double lynches. THE "DETECTIVE PLAN" IS NOT WORTH IT.


8 investigates, it's unlikely the detectives will find a mafia with each one. particularly when mafia have 9 kills a night. What I propose is detectives working together, using their other abilities. To do that though, they need total confidence in the mayor.

What would you propose the detectives do? Work alone? Trust the mayor without really being sure?
All right, theyre on our left, theyre on our right, theyre in front of us, theyre behind us...they cant get away this time. View my public profile for links to my plan as mayor.
qrs
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3637 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-18 18:59:51
March 18 2008 18:56 GMT
#586
Since the leading candidates disagree with me, I will cast my hat into the ring: I am running for mayor. Why am I running? To implement the bodyguard plan with revealing a single bodyguard. Why do that? To coordinate our forces and save our special powers as much as possible. How will you know I'm not Mafia? A single detective will confirm it.

A vote for me is a vote for this plan, plain and simple. There's no other reason that I'm running. If any of the current leaders endorse it, I'll be happy to withdraw from the race and cede any votes I get to them.

Edit: re Ghar's post above mine, to clarify my proposition:

Before the detectives use their powers, I hope to have them organized, so that they do not duplicate their efforts (same goes for medics, etc.) I don't want the detectives to work alone--on the contrary, I want them to work with the one towny they can trust: the bodyguard.
'As per the American Heart Association, the beat of the Bee Gees song "Stayin' Alive" provides an ideal rhythm in terms of beats per minute to use for hands-only CPR. One can also hum Queen's "Another One Bites The Dust".' —Wikipedia
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-18 18:57:39
March 18 2008 18:57 GMT
#587
On March 19 2008 03:54 zeks wrote:
Isn't it more advantageous to have both the mayor and pardoner on the same "line"?

Should we consider that when voting...like making a sure a pair of mayor-pardoner that can work together well?
To be honest the pardoner seems like a useless position for a towny until maybe really really late in the game. The only good thing that comes from granting someone Pardoner status is the bodyguard protection, so we don't really need a pardoner who works well with the mayor. We just need to put a towny that we want to keep protected.
HeRoS)Pink
Profile Joined July 2005
Canada336 Posts
March 18 2008 18:58 GMT
#588
On March 19 2008 03:55 Ghar wrote:
Show nested quote +
Ghar's "detective" propostion has a high cost: we blow half of our detectives' most important ability on the first night. What do we gain for losing this? We know whether or not our mayor is Mafia. But this is not even such valuable information! If he is elected already, there is nothing we can do about losing the double lynches. THE "DETECTIVE PLAN" IS NOT WORTH IT.


8 investigates, it's unlikely the detectives will find a mafia with each one. particularly when mafia have 9 kills a night. What I propose is detectives working together, using their other abilities. To do that though, they need total confidence in the mayor.

What would you propose the detectives do? Work alone? Trust the mayor without really being sure?


learn to quote
Addicted
SonuvBob
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Aiur21552 Posts
March 18 2008 19:02 GMT
#589
On March 18 2008 22:02 Lenwe wrote:
Sonuvbob has 4 votes already, despite having given very little reason to vote for him other than him being able to see edits and having other mod powers. Also he announced that he was running for mayor at 16:09 (TL time) with this post:

Show nested quote +

Ah what the hell,

I'm announcing my candidacy for mayor.

My platform: Being less of a douche than Steve was


He got his first vote in the voting thread at 16:14, 5 minutes later, before he even made a second post. The person voting for him was LTT. I don't know if he participated in the previous TL mafia (I couldn't find that post anywhere), but if someone can confirm that? If he did, it makes it even more suspicious for me, because he knows the game and yet still votes for someone right after he reads the post, even though the reasoning behind Sonuvbob running for mayor at that time was just that he would be less of a douche that FS. Mafia promoting their candidate too early?

LTT was my mafia discussion buddy last game. :p

On March 19 2008 02:23 GeneralStan wrote:
The other candidates platforms in a nutshell:
Randombum - PMed everybody in the game. Shows he has time, but does he have the chops?
SoMuchBetter - PMed everybody in the game to show Randombum didn't do anything special, and he's funny. Almost worthy of a vote in entertainment value alone.
Sonuvbob - Better than fakesteve. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DO NOT VOTE FOR SONUVBOB.
Empyrean - "I'm a detective". Either foolhardy or deceptive, not my vote in either case.

Bitter about your ban?

On March 18 2008 18:53 xDark.Carnivalx wrote:
edit to add in after reading your new post ace: i don't know if people are seriously voting based on his knowledge of c++ or whatever, but i know part of my voting for him is his intiative to list all of it in one easy to find post; it makes looking for quotes and things to relate to clues easier, and that benefits the town.

That was my idea. Vote for me, I have ideas!
Administrator
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
March 18 2008 19:02 GMT
#590
On March 19 2008 03:57 Falcynn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2008 03:54 zeks wrote:
Isn't it more advantageous to have both the mayor and pardoner on the same "line"?

Should we consider that when voting...like making a sure a pair of mayor-pardoner that can work together well?
To be honest the pardoner seems like a useless position for a towny until maybe really really late in the game. The only good thing that comes from granting someone Pardoner status is the bodyguard protection, so we don't really need a pardoner who works well with the mayor. We just need to put a towny that we want to keep protected.


Pardoner is actually very powerful if the Town is somehow mob voting and the Pardoner figures out in time if something is fishy.

The Pardoner should pretty much be treated as a second Mayor, since that person should also be pretty good at leading the Town and figuring things out.

And yes, the last point that it should be someone we want to protect should be taken into account.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
GeneralStan
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States4789 Posts
March 18 2008 19:06 GMT
#591
On March 19 2008 04:02 SonuvBob wrote:

Bitter about your ban?



Lol, no I fully deserved it.

I just think you're not saying much, you're only claim is to be better than FakeSteve, and FakeSteve was really really bad. It's like saying I'm better than Mumyung! whoopdy doo
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Caller
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Poland8075 Posts
March 18 2008 19:09 GMT
#592
I've decided to change my mind and run for mayor, but I would like the pardoner spot.

The pardoner spot last game was not used at all. Indeed, Tracil didn't pardon a single person even though he was towny, and even though many of the people that were lynched were townies as well. For instance he didn't pardon Live2Win and Nightmare, both of whom had plenty of evidence against other people. I would like to be pardoner in order to use my ability with more care.

And what of it? If Ace's bodyguard plan is enabled, the mayor can send messages to the pardoner to pardon certain people that may be in danger of being lynched, i.e. bodyguards. However, if the pardoner is stubborn, he/she may not take advice and decide to act unilaterally, which is a bad thing. If the pardoner is also mafia, he/she can choose to listen, which may or may not help the mafia depending on who was pardoned, or they could choose not to listen, which would either incriminate the pardoner and/or the mayor.

I hope I've demonstrated that I flipflop a lot in the previous game, and while this may be bad, it means I am more open-minded than perhaps other people. Because I have little to do, I might be able to jump in and pardon people if I am informed that they are in danger.

If I am elected mayor somehow that would be interesting. But I don't think I would be qualified as a mayor more than Ace. That's why I would rather be pardoner.
Watch me fail at Paradox: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=397564
Mynock
Profile Joined September 2002
4492 Posts
March 18 2008 19:11 GMT
#593
On March 19 2008 03:13 Ace wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2008 02:59 Lysithea wrote:
On March 19 2008 02:13 Lysithea wrote:
...

If Empyrean is a DT he could be very valuable as pardoner but it's something about the whole thing that just feels out of place. I'm tempted to vote for him, not for mayor but as pardoner. Wish we could have more campaigning from his side. My question to all of you is: would it be beneficial enough for mafia to even attempt the stunt empyrean is employing? Would it be reasonable? I'm asking cause I'm not sure whether to vote for Empyrean or someone else in the case of me voting for a pardoner spot.

...


Reposting this part from my own post since I really want peoples thoughts on this.


Ok here's my take - it would be a pretty good idea from a Mafia standpoint.

1.) Empryean did very well last game
2.) For some reason, people think the probability of him being Mafia again has changed when it really hasn't
3.) He claims a role that is important and can't be verified right now
4.) Most importantly, it adds confusion to the game

4 is the prime reason that if I were Mafia, it would be a great tool. People trust Empryean, and if another DT comes and investigates him well they'd be hard pressed to prove it - and now the Mafia knows another DT role with nothing else weighing in on their decisions aka an easy kill. Thats an element of confusion that takes away from the main focus, and the easiest way for the Mafia to win is to confuse the Townies.

I'm not saying Empryean is Mafia, but that was a very risky move. There was no point in revealing his alleged role so early in the game. Maybe he's afraid that he'd be killed early and is innocent after all - and if that's the case for someone so smart he should have provided a better angle of campaigning.



I agree.

What really goes against Empyrian here is that since he did well last game this feeble move right now seems like quite a misstep.

Doesn't look right.
Hollander
Profile Joined March 2008
Norway13 Posts
March 18 2008 19:19 GMT
#594
Was thinkin about this clue..
Mr. Blonde
"Coming out of nowhere it seemed."


and who it might fit. Well, meta posted earlier that it might be Lysithea.. Well, scandinavians are known to be blonde - so that's twice for Lyset( )..

As for other scandinavians registered, we have
http://teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=Joxxor
http://teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=Jtan
http://teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=Supah
http://teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=Korvspad
http://teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=Hittegods

and

http://teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=Hollander - which is me

The only one's who have any(as I can see) connection with the phrase 'they came out of nowhere', would be Lysithea(with Muhammad Ali's bees) and norwegians - as (mostly norwegian)vikings were known to 'come out of nowhere' and raid upon the english villages and cities - Supah and me.

Out of those two, I only know Lysithea enough to know he's dumb as an unshoed horses hoof which only underlines him being Mr. Blonde, hehe :p
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein
ShaLLoW[baY]
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada12499 Posts
March 18 2008 19:26 GMT
#595
On March 19 2008 04:19 Hollander wrote:
Was thinkin about this clue..
Mr. Blonde
"Coming out of nowhere it seemed."


and who it might fit. Well, meta posted earlier that it might be Lysithea.. Well, scandinavians are known to be blonde - so that's twice for Lyset( )..

As for other scandinavians registered, we have
http://teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=Joxxor
http://teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=Jtan
http://teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=Supah
http://teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=Korvspad
http://teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=Hittegods

and

http://teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=Hollander - which is me

The only one's who have any(as I can see) connection with the phrase 'they came out of nowhere', would be Lysithea(with Muhammad Ali's bees) and norwegians - as (mostly norwegian)vikings were known to 'come out of nowhere' and raid upon the english villages and cities - Supah and me.

Out of those two, I only know Lysithea enough to know he's dumb as an unshoed horses hoof which only underlines him being Mr. Blonde, hehe :p


When I think about the way I handled clues last game, I tried to find out which clue pointed to which Mafioso, and then misinterpret that clue in order to make it point to as many people as possible, including the Mafioso.

This might be the same thing :p
ALEXISONFIRE ARE FUCKING BACK (sAviOr for life)
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
March 18 2008 19:28 GMT
#596
current vote count that I have:

LastRomantic - aznvaliance (1)

Empyrean - LastRomantic, Meta,Eti307,Showtime,MTF,BloodyC0bbler,RST Nightmare,NatsuTerran,Solosteer,Jim Tudor,nemy,decafchicken (13)

Ace - CDRdude,Joxxor,Ghar,spoinka,Hittegods,Hollander,Naib,useless,GeneralStan,Shadowdrgn, Lysithea,Falcynn,zeks,Mynock,Caller (15)

randombum - Drdragoon,Alethios,G.S)Naruto,Sadir,fanatacist,Bockit,GranDim,Ninja4ever, so no fek,shallow[bay] (10)

fusionsdf - plexa,ZBIR (2)

plexa - ssj100,Seifu (2)

Sonuvbob - LTT.wurm,Heros)Pink (2)

Ghar - Ace,ahrara,Pangolin,Mandalor,Amber[Light],rpf,Ziel (7)

araav - SonuvBob,RowdierBob,Klive5ive,xdark,Neax,Energies,qsr (7)
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
zeks
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Canada1068 Posts
March 18 2008 19:29 GMT
#597
well lol, i guess since the King Brown Snake is from Australia...oh wait theres like 6 Australians
"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I-- I took the one less traveled by, And that has made all the difference."
bumatlarge
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States4567 Posts
March 18 2008 19:31 GMT
#598
On March 18 2008 19:33 Empyrean wrote:
I just woke up!

I'm running for mayor as well.

I have previous mafia experience, and have a good idea of how mafia like to conduct things.

Furthermore, I'll take everyone's opinion into consideration, as well as analyze everything myself.

The most important reason, and this is kind of risky saying it, but I am a detective. If I'm elected mayor, I'll be guaranteed to be safe from mafia attacks so I can publish my detective results daily, giving us a large boost. If you want, I can ask some easy questions confirming people's roles so they can back me up. The possibility of a Detective Mayor is something in the town's favor.

Also, if you don't vote for me now, mafia will target me first night and the town'll be down a detective without me even asking anything :[


We know how you work Empyrean, Prove it.
Together but separate, like oatmeal
MoRe_mInErAls
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Canada1210 Posts
March 18 2008 19:36 GMT
#599
I'll vote for SonuvBob but he has to promise to be like FakeSteve.
Lenwe
Profile Joined March 2008
Netherlands757 Posts
March 18 2008 19:42 GMT
#600
I agree with quite a lot that has been said. I don't think we can accuse anyone of being mafia so far unless they do something strange. The only strange thing I've seen so far is Emp announcing himself a detective, which has deffinately put him on my radar as suspicious. For the rest I just want to vote for the mayor that comes of as the least suspicious and has an actual plan.

I am liking the bodyguard idea that Ace put forward. It seems it can work really well, even if it would cost us one bodyguard, coordinating all the efforts of our special roles is probably worth it. He is getting a lot of votes right now though, so if that continues he will probably become mayor anyway and I am more interested in getting someone else with good idea's in the pardoner role. Randomburn is making quite a lot of sense as well so far.

So I am withholding my vote for now to see if Ace will indeed take a huge lead and perhaps for other candidates to announce they are running for mayor.

Oh and, fair enough Sonuvbob.
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