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I agree with rsoultin's sentiment that die_meatbaby warning Oatsmaster about picking on the weakest players doesn't make sense. Die_meatbaby isn't accusing Oatsmaster of being mafia, or even saying that's what Oatsmaster is doing this game, just that Oatsmaster did that previously as mafia and she doesn't want him to do it again.
My question is, why not? If Oatsmaster did that before as mafia and he does it again, isn't that a giveaway and wouldn't it make him an easy lynch? I'd think you'd be thanking him for doing that in all honesty.
Also I think it's really really funny that die_meatbaby asked AlphaZero for a previous game, that would completely delete the purpose of making a smurf account 
Other than AlphaZero I have no idea who die_meatbaby suspects at all though. She said Vivax is town, and had a weak reason to townread rsoultin, but that was about it. In the end I don't have any meaningful impression of die_meatbaby's alignment but I think it will be more clear with more time.
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I'm actually strangely okay with not lynching scott31337? Which kinda shocks me, I never thought I'd see the day. I'm confused about how he puts Oatsmaster in the "do not lynch today" category and just a bit later is throwing shade on Oatsmaster and is disappointed in (I think) raynpelikoneet and sandroba townreading Oatsmaster. Not very significant but it's the main thing that sticks out to me at this point?
Raynpelikoneet post #177 is confusing me, in my tired state I am having a hard time understanding what he is referring to. Also I'm a little confused why he strongly disagreed with me about Kelsi3r and then I pushed back and he said he agreed? I didn't really say anything new, just tried to rephrase it to make it more clear, I guess I'm
just surprised that that actually made a difference tbh. No real reasons to suspect him though.
Raynpelikoneet said he was going to be busy today so he would need to figure things out early but idk if he did that? He seemed mostly uninterested in the scott31337 stuff and back and forth on the Kelsi3r stuff. I don't actually know who he thinks is mafia, which is very much against what I expect from raynpelikoneet (regardless of alignment).
Honestly that might be worth some thinking. Raynpelikoneet with one of the longest, if not the longest, filters in the game, and seemingly no scumreads? I'm confused, but I'm not so confident in raynpelikoneet being town anymore. Actually pretty suspicious.
Mocsta and marvellosity look okay enough for now I think. Unfortunately I am not a Vivax whisperer, would love to understand all these incredible reads he has but I am not seeing what he is getting at. Oh well, what can I do 
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On June 08 2024 17:10 Mocsta wrote:
Hi trfel
.your post #715 on oats
I don't really get it
I had a read of oats filter and didn't see the same things you raised.
His filter is consistent focus and attitude/tone. He's kept prodding the same things regardless of buy in, which yes can be scummy. Yet. He's updating the read as the conviction increases which I find townie.
There was a post early game about you and Ryan that stuck out to me and made me wonder about a scum duo of rayn and oats but that's really clutching at straws and nothing I intend to pursue. Thanks for taking the time. I guess I didn't even see a ton of Oatsmaster bringing up the same things, I can try and look again though.
@marvellosity, I think Mocsta is easier to read than several other players this game due to a combination of activity and unique thoughts. He's been present and involved and has been very willing to provide his own take, which often differs from that of everyone else and the thread consensus. I think this gives a lot of extra information with which we can figure out his alignment more easily.
Also, someone asked about die_meatbaby's meta, I'm far from an expert but I would say her play matches my expectations close enough. That doesn't mean she is town or mafia necessarily, but this is the kind of play I was expecting. With the Vivax focus, paranoia of influential players, hesitance to commit to early reads, etc.
Kinda confused about what these last 2-3 pages were about but I'm too lazy/sleepy to go to my computer and actually figure it out, oh well Too lazy to visit the links Mocsta brought up about scott31337, can someone tell me if it makes sense or not?
Happy to talk about most anything, but prefer to talk about Kelsi3r or Oatsmaster.
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On June 08 2024 17:10 Mocsta wrote:
Hi trfel
.your post #715 on oats
I don't really get it
I had a read of oats filter and didn't see the same things you raised.
His filter is consistent focus and attitude/tone. He's kept prodding the same things regardless of buy in, which yes can be scummy. Yet. He's updating the read as the conviction increases which I find townie.
There was a post early game about you and Ryan that stuck out to me and made me wonder about a scum duo of rayn and oats but that's really clutching at straws and nothing I intend to pursue. I'd like to go back to this, actually. Can you help show me where you're seeing meaningful contribution besides Oatsmaster's push on Vivax? Or ways that Oatsmaster's push on Vivax has more substance/quality than I gave it credit for?
My interpretation is that Oatsmaster has been unhelpful besides the push on Vivax, and that his push on Vivax is unfounded and based on poor reasoning. If you disagree, if you could point me to examples of why, that'd be great.
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AlphaZero, honestly I get the impression you are ignoring me. Which isn't the worst thing in the world, but I would at least like to clarify if it's because you think I am mafia or because you think I am not being productive or what.
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On June 08 2024 19:58 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 19:33 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 17:10 Mocsta wrote:
Hi trfel
.your post #715 on oats
I don't really get it
I had a read of oats filter and didn't see the same things you raised.
His filter is consistent focus and attitude/tone. He's kept prodding the same things regardless of buy in, which yes can be scummy. Yet. He's updating the read as the conviction increases which I find townie.
There was a post early game about you and Ryan that stuck out to me and made me wonder about a scum duo of rayn and oats but that's really clutching at straws and nothing I intend to pursue. Thanks for taking the time. I guess I didn't even see a ton of Oatsmaster bringing up the same things, I can try and look again though. @marvellosity, I think Mocsta is easier to read than several other players this game due to a combination of activity and unique thoughts. He's been present and involved and has been very willing to provide his own take, which often differs from that of everyone else and the thread consensus. I think this gives a lot of extra information with which we can figure out his alignment more easily. Also, someone asked about die_meatbaby's meta, I'm far from an expert but I would say her play matches my expectations close enough. That doesn't mean she is town or mafia necessarily, but this is the kind of play I was expecting. With the Vivax focus, paranoia of influential players, hesitance to commit to early reads, etc. Kinda confused about what these last 2-3 pages were about but I'm too lazy/sleepy to go to my computer and actually figure it out, oh well Too lazy to visit the links Mocsta brought up about scott31337, can someone tell me if it makes sense or not? Happy to talk about most anything, but prefer to talk about Kelsi3r or Oatsmaster. Fundamentally I just think there’s so much weak sauce in there. Some of which I’ve talked about, some of which I haven’t (like p, just as a random example, taking a scott post commenting on DMB’s absence. It means nothing for Scott’s alignment either way. Obviously either alignment can make that sort of post. How has this even made it into an analysis?) I’m wary of falling into the trap that this must mean mafia. As I can understand why you have posted what you have said about him here. But meeeeeeeeeh  Maybe I'm being stupid but what I meant was more that Mocsta has provided more information with which to get a read on him, one way or another. As in, there shouldn't be many null reads on Mocsta imo, the information is there, just up to people to interpret it. I feel like his posting is polarizing, depending on how you interpret it it is solidly town or solidly mafia, but just hard to get a null interpretation.
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On June 08 2024 20:01 AlphaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 19:56 Trfel wrote:
AlphaZero, honestly I get the impression you are ignoring me. Which isn't the worst thing in the world, but I would at least like to clarify if it's because you think I am mafia or because you think I am not being productive or what. Honestly I’m not ignoring you intentionally. I’m reading and considering about your posts. I don’t really agree with some of your conclusions, but I don’t want to stop you from doing your thing, or get bogged down in arguing about it. Did I miss a question you asked me? I’m just using the little time I have to follow my own lines of inquiry. Fair enough. Also if you have limited time then by all means focus on what stands out to you.
If your time wasn't limited I was wondering about your Oatsmaster read, since you seem very convinced he is town and as I described, it's hard for me to see that right now.
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On June 08 2024 20:05 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 19:33 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 17:10 Mocsta wrote:
Hi trfel
.your post #715 on oats
I don't really get it
I had a read of oats filter and didn't see the same things you raised.
His filter is consistent focus and attitude/tone. He's kept prodding the same things regardless of buy in, which yes can be scummy. Yet. He's updating the read as the conviction increases which I find townie.
There was a post early game about you and Ryan that stuck out to me and made me wonder about a scum duo of rayn and oats but that's really clutching at straws and nothing I intend to pursue. Thanks for taking the time. I guess I didn't even see a ton of Oatsmaster bringing up the same things, I can try and look again though. @marvellosity, I think Mocsta is easier to read than several other players this game due to a combination of activity and unique thoughts. He's been present and involved and has been very willing to provide his own take, which often differs from that of everyone else and the thread consensus. I think this gives a lot of extra information with which we can figure out his alignment more easily. Also, someone asked about die_meatbaby's meta, I'm far from an expert but I would say her play matches my expectations close enough. That doesn't mean she is town or mafia necessarily, but this is the kind of play I was expecting. With the Vivax focus, paranoia of influential players, hesitance to commit to early reads, etc. Kinda confused about what these last 2-3 pages were about but I'm too lazy/sleepy to go to my computer and actually figure it out, oh well Too lazy to visit the links Mocsta brought up about scott31337, can someone tell me if it makes sense or not? Happy to talk about most anything, but prefer to talk about Kelsi3r or Oatsmaster. Why do you think it’s good to talk about me when I’m clearly not a day 1 lynch? Is it not the exact same situation as alpha zero? One and a half differences.
One difference: I brought legit reasons to talk about. Not random suspicions and paranoia and spookies.
Half difference: not being able to figure out your alignment, especially having such a dramatically different take on it than everyone else does, is driving me insane.
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On June 08 2024 20:05 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 20:03 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 19:58 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 19:33 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 17:10 Mocsta wrote:
Hi trfel
.your post #715 on oats
I don't really get it
I had a read of oats filter and didn't see the same things you raised.
His filter is consistent focus and attitude/tone. He's kept prodding the same things regardless of buy in, which yes can be scummy. Yet. He's updating the read as the conviction increases which I find townie.
There was a post early game about you and Ryan that stuck out to me and made me wonder about a scum duo of rayn and oats but that's really clutching at straws and nothing I intend to pursue. Thanks for taking the time. I guess I didn't even see a ton of Oatsmaster bringing up the same things, I can try and look again though. @marvellosity, I think Mocsta is easier to read than several other players this game due to a combination of activity and unique thoughts. He's been present and involved and has been very willing to provide his own take, which often differs from that of everyone else and the thread consensus. I think this gives a lot of extra information with which we can figure out his alignment more easily. Also, someone asked about die_meatbaby's meta, I'm far from an expert but I would say her play matches my expectations close enough. That doesn't mean she is town or mafia necessarily, but this is the kind of play I was expecting. With the Vivax focus, paranoia of influential players, hesitance to commit to early reads, etc. Kinda confused about what these last 2-3 pages were about but I'm too lazy/sleepy to go to my computer and actually figure it out, oh well Too lazy to visit the links Mocsta brought up about scott31337, can someone tell me if it makes sense or not? Happy to talk about most anything, but prefer to talk about Kelsi3r or Oatsmaster. Fundamentally I just think there’s so much weak sauce in there. Some of which I’ve talked about, some of which I haven’t (like p, just as a random example, taking a scott post commenting on DMB’s absence. It means nothing for Scott’s alignment either way. Obviously either alignment can make that sort of post. How has this even made it into an analysis?) I’m wary of falling into the trap that this must mean mafia. As I can understand why you have posted what you have said about him here. But meeeeeeeeeh Maybe I'm being stupid but what I meant was more that Mocsta has provided more information with which to get a read on him, one way or another. As in, there shouldn't be many null reads on Mocsta imo, the information is there, just up to people to interpret it. I feel like his posting is polarizing, depending on how you interpret it it is solidly town or solidly mafia, but just hard to get a null interpretation. You’re not being stupid. I’m just engaging in conversation and explaining my thoughts. You don’t seem to be interested in him so I’m just talking a little about why I am Fair. I could absolutely be wrong on Mocsta, I'm happy to discuss this. Admittedly I haven't found a ton of reason to suspect Mocsta, but I could be missing things.
Like, Mocsta's thought processes are very, very different from mine. To the point where some of what he says just doesn't make much sense to me. I don't think this is scummy, my interpretation is that he just sees things differently than I do. I can try and look through his filter.
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On June 08 2024 20:13 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 20:07 marvellosity wrote:
My bones are telling me there’s a mafia in rsoul/rayn Stop stealing my ideas Where did this come from? I didn't see any suspicions of them in your filter tbh.
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On June 08 2024 20:16 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 20:08 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:05 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 08 2024 19:33 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 17:10 Mocsta wrote:
Hi trfel
.your post #715 on oats
I don't really get it
I had a read of oats filter and didn't see the same things you raised.
His filter is consistent focus and attitude/tone. He's kept prodding the same things regardless of buy in, which yes can be scummy. Yet. He's updating the read as the conviction increases which I find townie.
There was a post early game about you and Ryan that stuck out to me and made me wonder about a scum duo of rayn and oats but that's really clutching at straws and nothing I intend to pursue. Thanks for taking the time. I guess I didn't even see a ton of Oatsmaster bringing up the same things, I can try and look again though. @marvellosity, I think Mocsta is easier to read than several other players this game due to a combination of activity and unique thoughts. He's been present and involved and has been very willing to provide his own take, which often differs from that of everyone else and the thread consensus. I think this gives a lot of extra information with which we can figure out his alignment more easily. Also, someone asked about die_meatbaby's meta, I'm far from an expert but I would say her play matches my expectations close enough. That doesn't mean she is town or mafia necessarily, but this is the kind of play I was expecting. With the Vivax focus, paranoia of influential players, hesitance to commit to early reads, etc. Kinda confused about what these last 2-3 pages were about but I'm too lazy/sleepy to go to my computer and actually figure it out, oh well Too lazy to visit the links Mocsta brought up about scott31337, can someone tell me if it makes sense or not? Happy to talk about most anything, but prefer to talk about Kelsi3r or Oatsmaster. Why do you think it’s good to talk about me when I’m clearly not a day 1 lynch? Is it not the exact same situation as alpha zero? One and a half differences. One difference: I brought legit reasons to talk about. Not random suspicions and paranoia and spookies. Half difference: not being able to figure out your alignment, especially having such a dramatically different take on it than everyone else does, is driving me insane. Your legit reasons are random spookiness to everyone else as you can see it hasn’t gained any traction. So again I ask, what’s the difference? Your main point was that alpha zero wasn’t a day 1 lynch so he shouldn’t be discussed No, no, that's not how this works. Reasons can be good or bad, random spookiness isn't a bad reason, it's no reason, it's fearmongering.
I've said this like five times now. One more. I don't want to discuss someone if all of the following are true:
1. near a lynch deadline
2. the person in question is extremely unlikely to be lynched
3. there are no actual reasons presented to suspect the person. Note that this is very different from bad reasons.
Once again, and for the last time, all three things have to be true. As you can see this with AlphaZero, I didn't want to discuss him when there were no reasons. As soon as Mocsta posted his reasons, I discussed it with him, and I would be happy to continue discussing based on those reasons.
I don't get how this is so hard to understand?
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On June 08 2024 20:18 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 08:38 Mocsta wrote:On June 08 2024 08:10 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 04:07 Trfel wrote:Having second thoughts about marvellosity. I think I do actually want to pursue this after all. On June 07 2024 22:27 marvellosity wrote:On June 07 2024 19:27 Trfel wrote:On June 07 2024 16:44 Kelsi3r wrote:
I enjoyed Alpha Zero pointing out that scott had basically answered his own question and giving it a red flag. I love shit like that.
What does it say about scott? I don't know
But rsoutlin also liked it so I guess I like Alpha and rsoultin at this early stage.
Trefl and rayn were posting a lot and having a discussion, i've always been a sucker for activity = town . But ngl I didn't read a lot of the posts and sort of glazed over.
That's an ok starting point.
Yeah idk. The more I think about this (plus his previous post where he says he doesn't like Vivax) the more I am suspicious. If Kelsi3r doesn't know what AlphaZero's point about scott31337 means with regards to scott31337's alignment, that should lead to there being less reason to townread AlphaZero (and also anyone else) for this reasoning, no? Of course you don't always have to agree with someone's reasoning to think it makes them look towny, but it certainly helps. Furthermore, I could understand it better if he just said that it made AlphaZero look better, since they were the first to clearly lay out that line of thinking. But to add on that rsoultin looks good, purely for agreeing, when Kelsi3r himself doesn't even know if the point means anything for scott31337's alignment? Seems out of place. And to add, the only person he said he didn't like, Vivax, also commented on this kind of idea. Vivax didn't put scott31337's posts in contrast like AlphaZero did, but he (rightfully) pointed out that one of scott31337's posts in question didn't make a ton of sense. It wasn't exactly the same idea, but it was somewhat similar, and this was (presumably) enough to make AlphaZero say that Vivax looks town. Kelsi3r seems to have ignored this entirely, however? New top suspect, I think. I agree with this, the logic doesn’t track. On June 08 2024 01:18 marvellosity wrote:
I actually agreed with sand’s take on kelsier (sort of as a response to Scott here)
When I read mocstas vote on kelsier “you’re being intentionally obtuse”, I just thought well that’s a townie trait if ever I heard one So marvellosity agreed with me that Kelsi3r's logic didn't make sense, but then still includes Kelsi3r in the "town" category because Mocsta said he was being obtuse and that's a town trait? Reading through marvellosity's filter, I do still like that he acknowledged my point on Kelsi3r, and I like his line of questioning to Mocsta about his read change on me (Trfel). But he hasn't done really anything else of substance? It looks like his top suspects are scott31337 and Mocsta, and other than putting scott31337 at the bottom of his list post, he hasn't even mentioned him. Just feels uncharacteristically disjointed. I don't get the impression that he is looking for mafia, and I don't get the impression that he cares enough about his (few) thoughts to remember them later. I can talk about this. I bought into what sand was selling me. So that’s why Scott and kelsier were where they were. Mocsta I was/am suspicious of, still primarily because I think he was making it up when he talked about the posts you made. aawwwwww Mate. I probably shouldn't have posted my first post Game started at 10 for me and earliest chance I had to read was 4 sitting on plane In short hectic mad day and I was so excited to make intro post for first time.in maybe 6years.. I see the length of the game and was like wtf I dont have time.to do this before take.off and lose reception. Quickly skim and rsoultin and trfel.poats were the ones where my mind just disconnected from. Could not engage So put it out there to just have out it out there I wouldn't say the post content was forced because it's how I felt at that moment, although the sentiment that I needed to post something , yes was forced It's also part of why I retracted once I landed and read thoroughly This is his explanation for the stuff I picked up on with regards to your early posting. I understand that people make mistakes (especially early) but do I buy this? Is it the right sort of mistake? Is it the sort of mistake town makes? It’s not carelessness, it’s a characterisation of your posts as forced/contrived. It’s difficult tbh. Hmm, honestly I didn't view this as a mistake. Maybe that's my error. But a lot of people expressed a similar sentiment regarding my early posting, unless I am missing something I don't think his claim itself was unreasonable at all.
There is the part where he wasn't able to back it up with evidence upon request. It's a little strange, heck I bet I could go into my filter and fabricate the explanation in question, but I actually think it's maybe more likely to come from town. Possibilities:
- Mocsta is town, and due to a few combined factors (plane flight/setting change, me posting more and him getting a more meaningful read on me which quite possibly colors his perception of previous posts), didn't read the earlier posts the same way
- Mocsta is mafia, and instead of forcing an explanation, gave it up. Like, if it was me and I was mafia there, I'm 10000% giving a forced explanation there, even if I can't remember what I was initially thinking I'm gonna make something up. I would never back down there. Maybe Mocsta is just a different player from me but I don't actually see the mafia motivation for this? The claim is too vague and easy to provide fake reasoning for, honestly if he's mafia I think he took a much harder route by backing down from it.
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On June 08 2024 20:27 AlphaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 20:14 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:05 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 20:03 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 19:58 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 19:33 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 17:10 Mocsta wrote:
Hi trfel
.your post #715 on oats
I don't really get it
I had a read of oats filter and didn't see the same things you raised.
His filter is consistent focus and attitude/tone. He's kept prodding the same things regardless of buy in, which yes can be scummy. Yet. He's updating the read as the conviction increases which I find townie.
There was a post early game about you and Ryan that stuck out to me and made me wonder about a scum duo of rayn and oats but that's really clutching at straws and nothing I intend to pursue. Thanks for taking the time. I guess I didn't even see a ton of Oatsmaster bringing up the same things, I can try and look again though. @marvellosity, I think Mocsta is easier to read than several other players this game due to a combination of activity and unique thoughts. He's been present and involved and has been very willing to provide his own take, which often differs from that of everyone else and the thread consensus. I think this gives a lot of extra information with which we can figure out his alignment more easily. Also, someone asked about die_meatbaby's meta, I'm far from an expert but I would say her play matches my expectations close enough. That doesn't mean she is town or mafia necessarily, but this is the kind of play I was expecting. With the Vivax focus, paranoia of influential players, hesitance to commit to early reads, etc. Kinda confused about what these last 2-3 pages were about but I'm too lazy/sleepy to go to my computer and actually figure it out, oh well Too lazy to visit the links Mocsta brought up about scott31337, can someone tell me if it makes sense or not? Happy to talk about most anything, but prefer to talk about Kelsi3r or Oatsmaster. Fundamentally I just think there’s so much weak sauce in there. Some of which I’ve talked about, some of which I haven’t (like p, just as a random example, taking a scott post commenting on DMB’s absence. It means nothing for Scott’s alignment either way. Obviously either alignment can make that sort of post. How has this even made it into an analysis?) I’m wary of falling into the trap that this must mean mafia. As I can understand why you have posted what you have said about him here. But meeeeeeeeeh Maybe I'm being stupid but what I meant was more that Mocsta has provided more information with which to get a read on him, one way or another. As in, there shouldn't be many null reads on Mocsta imo, the information is there, just up to people to interpret it. I feel like his posting is polarizing, depending on how you interpret it it is solidly town or solidly mafia, but just hard to get a null interpretation. You’re not being stupid. I’m just engaging in conversation and explaining my thoughts. You don’t seem to be interested in him so I’m just talking a little about why I am Fair. I could absolutely be wrong on Mocsta, I'm happy to discuss this. Admittedly I haven't found a ton of reason to suspect Mocsta, but I could be missing things. Like, Mocsta's thought processes are very, very different from mine. To the point where some of what he says just doesn't make much sense to me. I don't think this is scummy, my interpretation is that he just sees things differently than I do. I can try and look through his filter. There is a ton of info to draw from in order to have a more substantive conclusion than this one. What? Where does this come from?
I mean my view is that Mocsta is likely town. I'm trying to be open to the possibility that I am wrong, would you rather I refuse to re-evaluate?!
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On June 08 2024 20:36 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 20:34 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:18 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 08:38 Mocsta wrote:On June 08 2024 08:10 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 04:07 Trfel wrote:Having second thoughts about marvellosity. I think I do actually want to pursue this after all. On June 07 2024 22:27 marvellosity wrote:On June 07 2024 19:27 Trfel wrote:On June 07 2024 16:44 Kelsi3r wrote:
I enjoyed Alpha Zero pointing out that scott had basically answered his own question and giving it a red flag. I love shit like that.
What does it say about scott? I don't know
But rsoutlin also liked it so I guess I like Alpha and rsoultin at this early stage.
Trefl and rayn were posting a lot and having a discussion, i've always been a sucker for activity = town . But ngl I didn't read a lot of the posts and sort of glazed over.
That's an ok starting point.
Yeah idk. The more I think about this (plus his previous post where he says he doesn't like Vivax) the more I am suspicious. If Kelsi3r doesn't know what AlphaZero's point about scott31337 means with regards to scott31337's alignment, that should lead to there being less reason to townread AlphaZero (and also anyone else) for this reasoning, no? Of course you don't always have to agree with someone's reasoning to think it makes them look towny, but it certainly helps. Furthermore, I could understand it better if he just said that it made AlphaZero look better, since they were the first to clearly lay out that line of thinking. But to add on that rsoultin looks good, purely for agreeing, when Kelsi3r himself doesn't even know if the point means anything for scott31337's alignment? Seems out of place. And to add, the only person he said he didn't like, Vivax, also commented on this kind of idea. Vivax didn't put scott31337's posts in contrast like AlphaZero did, but he (rightfully) pointed out that one of scott31337's posts in question didn't make a ton of sense. It wasn't exactly the same idea, but it was somewhat similar, and this was (presumably) enough to make AlphaZero say that Vivax looks town. Kelsi3r seems to have ignored this entirely, however? New top suspect, I think. I agree with this, the logic doesn’t track. On June 08 2024 01:18 marvellosity wrote:
I actually agreed with sand’s take on kelsier (sort of as a response to Scott here)
When I read mocstas vote on kelsier “you’re being intentionally obtuse”, I just thought well that’s a townie trait if ever I heard one So marvellosity agreed with me that Kelsi3r's logic didn't make sense, but then still includes Kelsi3r in the "town" category because Mocsta said he was being obtuse and that's a town trait? Reading through marvellosity's filter, I do still like that he acknowledged my point on Kelsi3r, and I like his line of questioning to Mocsta about his read change on me (Trfel). But he hasn't done really anything else of substance? It looks like his top suspects are scott31337 and Mocsta, and other than putting scott31337 at the bottom of his list post, he hasn't even mentioned him. Just feels uncharacteristically disjointed. I don't get the impression that he is looking for mafia, and I don't get the impression that he cares enough about his (few) thoughts to remember them later. I can talk about this. I bought into what sand was selling me. So that’s why Scott and kelsier were where they were. Mocsta I was/am suspicious of, still primarily because I think he was making it up when he talked about the posts you made. aawwwwww Mate. I probably shouldn't have posted my first post Game started at 10 for me and earliest chance I had to read was 4 sitting on plane In short hectic mad day and I was so excited to make intro post for first time.in maybe 6years.. I see the length of the game and was like wtf I dont have time.to do this before take.off and lose reception. Quickly skim and rsoultin and trfel.poats were the ones where my mind just disconnected from. Could not engage So put it out there to just have out it out there I wouldn't say the post content was forced because it's how I felt at that moment, although the sentiment that I needed to post something , yes was forced It's also part of why I retracted once I landed and read thoroughly This is his explanation for the stuff I picked up on with regards to your early posting. I understand that people make mistakes (especially early) but do I buy this? Is it the right sort of mistake? Is it the sort of mistake town makes? It’s not carelessness, it’s a characterisation of your posts as forced/contrived. It’s difficult tbh. Hmm, honestly I didn't view this as a mistake. Maybe that's my error. But a lot of people expressed a similar sentiment regarding my early posting, unless I am missing something I don't think his claim itself was unreasonable at all. There is the part where he wasn't able to back it up with evidence upon request. It's a little strange, heck I bet I could go into my filter and fabricate the explanation in question, but I actually think it's maybe more likely to come from town. Possibilities: - Mocsta is town, and due to a few combined factors (plane flight/setting change, me posting more and him getting a more meaningful read on me which quite possibly colors his perception of previous posts), didn't read the earlier posts the same way - Mocsta is mafia, and instead of forcing an explanation, gave it up. Like, if it was me and I was mafia there, I'm 10000% giving a forced explanation there, even if I can't remember what I was initially thinking I'm gonna make something up. I would never back down there. Maybe Mocsta is just a different player from me but I don't actually see the mafia motivation for this? The claim is too vague and easy to provide fake reasoning for, honestly if he's mafia I think he took a much harder route by backing down from it. He’s admitting it as a mistake Trfel lol. Wtf? To the bolded: who exactly? Raynpelikoneet, rsoultin, sandroba, maybe even AlphaZero?
And sure, Mocsta said it was a mistake, but I disagree
I think it's more likely that his perspective changed, causing him to interpret the same posts in a different way. I mean if you want to call that a mistake then sure, I wouldn't say that though.
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Ahhh I can't keep up with reading or discussing at this pace on my phone On June 08 2024 20:38 AlphaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 20:36 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:27 AlphaZero wrote:On June 08 2024 20:14 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:05 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 20:03 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 19:58 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 19:33 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 17:10 Mocsta wrote:
Hi trfel
.your post #715 on oats
I don't really get it
I had a read of oats filter and didn't see the same things you raised.
His filter is consistent focus and attitude/tone. He's kept prodding the same things regardless of buy in, which yes can be scummy. Yet. He's updating the read as the conviction increases which I find townie.
There was a post early game about you and Ryan that stuck out to me and made me wonder about a scum duo of rayn and oats but that's really clutching at straws and nothing I intend to pursue. Thanks for taking the time. I guess I didn't even see a ton of Oatsmaster bringing up the same things, I can try and look again though. @marvellosity, I think Mocsta is easier to read than several other players this game due to a combination of activity and unique thoughts. He's been present and involved and has been very willing to provide his own take, which often differs from that of everyone else and the thread consensus. I think this gives a lot of extra information with which we can figure out his alignment more easily. Also, someone asked about die_meatbaby's meta, I'm far from an expert but I would say her play matches my expectations close enough. That doesn't mean she is town or mafia necessarily, but this is the kind of play I was expecting. With the Vivax focus, paranoia of influential players, hesitance to commit to early reads, etc. Kinda confused about what these last 2-3 pages were about but I'm too lazy/sleepy to go to my computer and actually figure it out, oh well Too lazy to visit the links Mocsta brought up about scott31337, can someone tell me if it makes sense or not? Happy to talk about most anything, but prefer to talk about Kelsi3r or Oatsmaster. Fundamentally I just think there’s so much weak sauce in there. Some of which I’ve talked about, some of which I haven’t (like p, just as a random example, taking a scott post commenting on DMB’s absence. It means nothing for Scott’s alignment either way. Obviously either alignment can make that sort of post. How has this even made it into an analysis?) I’m wary of falling into the trap that this must mean mafia. As I can understand why you have posted what you have said about him here. But meeeeeeeeeh Maybe I'm being stupid but what I meant was more that Mocsta has provided more information with which to get a read on him, one way or another. As in, there shouldn't be many null reads on Mocsta imo, the information is there, just up to people to interpret it. I feel like his posting is polarizing, depending on how you interpret it it is solidly town or solidly mafia, but just hard to get a null interpretation. You’re not being stupid. I’m just engaging in conversation and explaining my thoughts. You don’t seem to be interested in him so I’m just talking a little about why I am Fair. I could absolutely be wrong on Mocsta, I'm happy to discuss this. Admittedly I haven't found a ton of reason to suspect Mocsta, but I could be missing things. Like, Mocsta's thought processes are very, very different from mine. To the point where some of what he says just doesn't make much sense to me. I don't think this is scummy, my interpretation is that he just sees things differently than I do. I can try and look through his filter. There is a ton of info to draw from in order to have a more substantive conclusion than this one. What? Where does this come from? I mean my view is that Mocsta is likely town. I'm trying to be open to the possibility that I am wrong, would you rather I refuse to re-evaluate?! No, I just want clarity on your reasons I guess. Because for whatever reason they are not clear to me. Main reason is that he's been present, involved, and has unique/original thoughts. Even if I disagree with some of his thoughts, or don't always see it the same way, it gives me the impression that he's trying to figure things out/solve the game.
Mafia is generally more inclined to sit back and hide amongst the thread sentiment, maybe they go against it occasionally (rarely) so it's not too obvious, but even when they do, it's generally not on a major point. Like, they'll go with the thread sentiment on all the immediate targets and have a more uncommon suspect down the line, if that makes sense.
Mocsta has not only consistently taken views that oppose the thread sentiment, but he's come up with a large amount of unique reasoning to support those views. Whether or not I agree with the reasons doesn't matter so much with respect to Mocsta's alignment, what matters most is if Mocsta himself agrees with the views. The impression I get is that he does.
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On June 08 2024 20:43 AlphaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 20:39 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:36 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 20:34 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:18 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 08:38 Mocsta wrote:On June 08 2024 08:10 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 04:07 Trfel wrote:Having second thoughts about marvellosity. I think I do actually want to pursue this after all. On June 07 2024 22:27 marvellosity wrote:On June 07 2024 19:27 Trfel wrote:
[quote]Yeah idk. The more I think about this (plus his previous post where he says he doesn't like Vivax) the more I am suspicious.
If Kelsi3r doesn't know what AlphaZero's point about scott31337 means with regards to scott31337's alignment, that should lead to there being less reason to townread AlphaZero (and also anyone else) for this reasoning, no? Of course you don't always have to agree with someone's reasoning to think it makes them look towny, but it certainly helps. Furthermore, I could understand it better if he just said that it made AlphaZero look better, since they were the first to clearly lay out that line of thinking. But to add on that rsoultin looks good, purely for agreeing, when Kelsi3r himself doesn't even know if the point means anything for scott31337's alignment? Seems out of place.
And to add, the only person he said he didn't like, Vivax, also commented on this kind of idea. Vivax didn't put scott31337's posts in contrast like AlphaZero did, but he (rightfully) pointed out that one of scott31337's posts in question didn't make a ton of sense. It wasn't exactly the same idea, but it was somewhat similar, and this was (presumably) enough to make AlphaZero say that Vivax looks town. Kelsi3r seems to have ignored this entirely, however?
New top suspect, I think. I agree with this, the logic doesn’t track. On June 08 2024 01:18 marvellosity wrote:
I actually agreed with sand’s take on kelsier (sort of as a response to Scott here)
When I read mocstas vote on kelsier “you’re being intentionally obtuse”, I just thought well that’s a townie trait if ever I heard one So marvellosity agreed with me that Kelsi3r's logic didn't make sense, but then still includes Kelsi3r in the "town" category because Mocsta said he was being obtuse and that's a town trait? Reading through marvellosity's filter, I do still like that he acknowledged my point on Kelsi3r, and I like his line of questioning to Mocsta about his read change on me (Trfel). But he hasn't done really anything else of substance? It looks like his top suspects are scott31337 and Mocsta, and other than putting scott31337 at the bottom of his list post, he hasn't even mentioned him. Just feels uncharacteristically disjointed. I don't get the impression that he is looking for mafia, and I don't get the impression that he cares enough about his (few) thoughts to remember them later. I can talk about this. I bought into what sand was selling me. So that’s why Scott and kelsier were where they were. Mocsta I was/am suspicious of, still primarily because I think he was making it up when he talked about the posts you made. aawwwwww Mate. I probably shouldn't have posted my first post Game started at 10 for me and earliest chance I had to read was 4 sitting on plane In short hectic mad day and I was so excited to make intro post for first time.in maybe 6years.. I see the length of the game and was like wtf I dont have time.to do this before take.off and lose reception. Quickly skim and rsoultin and trfel.poats were the ones where my mind just disconnected from. Could not engage So put it out there to just have out it out there I wouldn't say the post content was forced because it's how I felt at that moment, although the sentiment that I needed to post something , yes was forced It's also part of why I retracted once I landed and read thoroughly This is his explanation for the stuff I picked up on with regards to your early posting. I understand that people make mistakes (especially early) but do I buy this? Is it the right sort of mistake? Is it the sort of mistake town makes? It’s not carelessness, it’s a characterisation of your posts as forced/contrived. It’s difficult tbh. Hmm, honestly I didn't view this as a mistake. Maybe that's my error. But a lot of people expressed a similar sentiment regarding my early posting, unless I am missing something I don't think his claim itself was unreasonable at all. There is the part where he wasn't able to back it up with evidence upon request. It's a little strange, heck I bet I could go into my filter and fabricate the explanation in question, but I actually think it's maybe more likely to come from town. Possibilities: - Mocsta is town, and due to a few combined factors (plane flight/setting change, me posting more and him getting a more meaningful read on me which quite possibly colors his perception of previous posts), didn't read the earlier posts the same way - Mocsta is mafia, and instead of forcing an explanation, gave it up. Like, if it was me and I was mafia there, I'm 10000% giving a forced explanation there, even if I can't remember what I was initially thinking I'm gonna make something up. I would never back down there. Maybe Mocsta is just a different player from me but I don't actually see the mafia motivation for this? The claim is too vague and easy to provide fake reasoning for, honestly if he's mafia I think he took a much harder route by backing down from it. He’s admitting it as a mistake Trfel lol. Wtf? To the bolded: who exactly? Raynpelikoneet, rsoultin, sandroba, maybe even AlphaZero? And sure, Mocsta said it was a mistake, but I disagree I think it's more likely that his perspective changed, causing him to interpret the same posts in a different way. I mean if you want to call that a mistake then sure, I wouldn't say that though. Hmm. After this post I think you are biased/closed minded with this one (despite you seemingly wanting to consider other perspectives) Presuming you are town I think you should try to genuinely reset yourself and look at it from the other perspective. What?
Are you saying this because you think my statement is so incredibly unreasonable, or what?
Which part?
The first part, people ABSOLUTELY said my opening posts were off. Maybe they didn't characterize them exactly the same way but how can you say this isn't similar?
The second part, whether or not it's a mistake, is kinda irrelevant semantics. I mostly said it to be funny tbh, it just depends on what you consider a mistake to be, and it doesn't matter for the point.
The third part is imo a completely valid perspective, which I explained, but at least on this point there is room for disagreement.
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On June 08 2024 20:47 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 20:26 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:16 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 08 2024 20:08 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:05 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 08 2024 19:33 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 17:10 Mocsta wrote:
Hi trfel
.your post #715 on oats
I don't really get it
I had a read of oats filter and didn't see the same things you raised.
His filter is consistent focus and attitude/tone. He's kept prodding the same things regardless of buy in, which yes can be scummy. Yet. He's updating the read as the conviction increases which I find townie.
There was a post early game about you and Ryan that stuck out to me and made me wonder about a scum duo of rayn and oats but that's really clutching at straws and nothing I intend to pursue. Thanks for taking the time. I guess I didn't even see a ton of Oatsmaster bringing up the same things, I can try and look again though. @marvellosity, I think Mocsta is easier to read than several other players this game due to a combination of activity and unique thoughts. He's been present and involved and has been very willing to provide his own take, which often differs from that of everyone else and the thread consensus. I think this gives a lot of extra information with which we can figure out his alignment more easily. Also, someone asked about die_meatbaby's meta, I'm far from an expert but I would say her play matches my expectations close enough. That doesn't mean she is town or mafia necessarily, but this is the kind of play I was expecting. With the Vivax focus, paranoia of influential players, hesitance to commit to early reads, etc. Kinda confused about what these last 2-3 pages were about but I'm too lazy/sleepy to go to my computer and actually figure it out, oh well Too lazy to visit the links Mocsta brought up about scott31337, can someone tell me if it makes sense or not? Happy to talk about most anything, but prefer to talk about Kelsi3r or Oatsmaster. Why do you think it’s good to talk about me when I’m clearly not a day 1 lynch? Is it not the exact same situation as alpha zero? One and a half differences. One difference: I brought legit reasons to talk about. Not random suspicions and paranoia and spookies. Half difference: not being able to figure out your alignment, especially having such a dramatically different take on it than everyone else does, is driving me insane. Your legit reasons are random spookiness to everyone else as you can see it hasn’t gained any traction. So again I ask, what’s the difference? Your main point was that alpha zero wasn’t a day 1 lynch so he shouldn’t be discussed No, no, that's not how this works. Reasons can be good or bad, random spookiness isn't a bad reason, it's no reason, it's fearmongering. I've said this like five times now. One more. I don't want to discuss someone if all of the following are true: 1. near a lynch deadline 2. the person in question is extremely unlikely to be lynched 3. there are no actual reasons presented to suspect the person. Note that this is very different from bad reasons. Once again, and for the last time, all three things have to be true. As you can see this with AlphaZero, I didn't want to discuss him when there were no reasons. As soon as Mocsta posted his reasons, I discussed it with him, and I would be happy to continue discussing based on those reasons. I don't get how this is so hard to understand? Damn 1-3 are all true for what you think about me. If 3 isn’t true then surely you can quote some posts that I made right? What the heck do you think this was?!?!!On June 08 2024 14:23 Trfel wrote:Sorry for getting frustrated earlier. I shouldn't try and play when I have company over. Again, I'm more than happy to talk about AlphaZero if anyone has any specifics to discuss. I don't want to just point fingers and suspicions for no reason, that doesn't help anyone. Either get serious and give actual reasons or wait until you have actual reasons, if discrediting people for no reason is commonly acceptable, the game becomes a mess. Maybe I'm blind but I haven't seen any substantial reasons to suspect AlphaZero posted so far.
OatsmasterShow nested quote +On June 08 2024 05:08 Oatsmaster wrote:
I think vivax is easily mafia here though, he’s playing super scared to make posts and has resorted to posting inane townreads Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 08:02 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 08 2024 07:45 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 07:39 AlphaZero wrote:On June 08 2024 07:32 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 06:38 AlphaZero wrote:
Oats and Sandro are top town.
Trfel is really worrying me. On the surface is very pro town, but also playing in a clearly different way to his prior games. I don’t really like his scum reads at all. I don’t level as if he is being that proactive in getting kelsier lynched, even though he apparently strongly suspects him.
And I find his reasoning for his scumreads much weaker than his other posts. I agree with a lot of his analysis but not when it comes to finding mafia…
I think his Smurf hunting made more sense logically than his scum reads which bothers me.
I wouldn’t lynch today, but if there is an active mafia hiding it’s this guy.
Scott just looks bad to me, completely forgettable, aside from his question that has already been analysed I couldn’t tell you why exactly. His scum hunting just comes across as manufactured,
Won’t lynch Marv today.
Rso has felt town by vibe.
Vivax I think is not consistently giving me good reasons to town read him
Rayn is being Rayn. Pretty much null.
Mocsta: looked better disengaging than when he was trying to do stuff. Don’t know what that means.
Kelsier: anyone with a strong opinion here is sus. Very null.
Rest need to post more or post more meaningful stuff. I guess I dunno what more I can do with Kelsi3r, people aren't super interested in lynching him, it is what it is. I mean I could definitely be wrong. But if he is mafia and gets through this it's not due to my lack of trying. I guess if he is town and doesn't change anything and survives that's also not due to my lack of trying But you get my point. Is your "won't lynch marvellosity" thing a town read thing or a waiting thing? It’s a “bad idea to try and lynch Marv day one thing” when he is playing the game and seems to be enjoying things. Fair, I understand that view. Not sure if I agree but I at least get it. I would definitely be very sad to lynch him, like I said, he's the funniest player so far. That's a pretty big motivator.
People seem to have strong opinions on sandroba and Vivax and I'm just not seeing it right now. (same with Oatsmaster but that's on me for being bad so I expect this, it doesn't worry me yet) Can anyone post or point me to a reasonable explanation of reading sandroba or Vivax? ? Vivax just randomly calling posts town you think is good? Also him bring afraid to post is good? Also him not constantly seeing shadows? Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 09:45 Oatsmaster wrote:
Vivax coming in and complaining about me is clsssic scum!vivax cmon.
The Scott stuff kinda boring, I get it but he’s not mafia These are the important posts I found in Oatsmaster's filter. The rest are mostly questions or random comments, basically things other than sharing his thoughts and pushing his reads. I realize this is subjective, so here is Oatsmaster's filter if you want to look for yourself. Honestly for having made 61 game posts, I'm pretty underwhelmed. He's had plenty of opportunity, and all he's come up with is this weird Vivax push. I'd like to break down his reasons for suspecting/pushing Vivax. 1. Vivax is scared to post (I'll reinterpret this as Vivax not being very active, it's hard for me to understand how you can interpret a lack of activity as mafia being scared to post) 2. Vivax has made silly townreads without reasoning to back them up 3. Vivax isn't constantly seeing shadows (I think this means he isn't being tinfoil-y?) 4. This post from Vivax is a classic mafia post: Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 08:20 Vivax wrote:On June 08 2024 08:02 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 08 2024 07:45 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 07:39 AlphaZero wrote:On June 08 2024 07:32 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 06:38 AlphaZero wrote:
Oats and Sandro are top town.
Trfel is really worrying me. On the surface is very pro town, but also playing in a clearly different way to his prior games. I don’t really like his scum reads at all. I don’t level as if he is being that proactive in getting kelsier lynched, even though he apparently strongly suspects him.
And I find his reasoning for his scumreads much weaker than his other posts. I agree with a lot of his analysis but not when it comes to finding mafia…
I think his Smurf hunting made more sense logically than his scum reads which bothers me.
I wouldn’t lynch today, but if there is an active mafia hiding it’s this guy.
Scott just looks bad to me, completely forgettable, aside from his question that has already been analysed I couldn’t tell you why exactly. His scum hunting just comes across as manufactured,
Won’t lynch Marv today.
Rso has felt town by vibe.
Vivax I think is not consistently giving me good reasons to town read him
Rayn is being Rayn. Pretty much null.
Mocsta: looked better disengaging than when he was trying to do stuff. Don’t know what that means.
Kelsier: anyone with a strong opinion here is sus. Very null.
Rest need to post more or post more meaningful stuff. I guess I dunno what more I can do with Kelsi3r, people aren't super interested in lynching him, it is what it is. I mean I could definitely be wrong. But if he is mafia and gets through this it's not due to my lack of trying. I guess if he is town and doesn't change anything and survives that's also not due to my lack of trying But you get my point. Is your "won't lynch marvellosity" thing a town read thing or a waiting thing? It’s a “bad idea to try and lynch Marv day one thing” when he is playing the game and seems to be enjoying things. Fair, I understand that view. Not sure if I agree but I at least get it. I would definitely be very sad to lynch him, like I said, he's the funniest player so far. That's a pretty big motivator.
People seem to have strong opinions on sandroba and Vivax and I'm just not seeing it right now. (same with Oatsmaster but that's on me for being bad so I expect this, it doesn't worry me yet) Can anyone post or point me to a reasonable explanation of reading sandroba or Vivax? ? Vivax just randomly calling posts town you think is good? Also him bring afraid to post is good? Also him not constantly seeing shadows? AZ calls you blanket top town too and it doesn‘t bother you. Doesn‘t surprise me you‘d miss that detail, so it‘s meh. Honestly I don't think these reasons are very good at all. 1. Vivax isn't very active. I don't think low activity means someone is mafia, this is very underwhelming. 2. Vivax made silly townreads without reason. It's common for people to make early townreads with little/no reasoning, and I think this is especially common for Vivax, actually. No clue why this is supposed to be suspicious. 3. Vivax isn't tinfoily. It's 27.5 hours in, there isn't much to be tinfoily about. That tends to happen more in longer games. 4. That post comes from mafia. I think Vivax is making a valid point in the post, I don't see why it is mafia motivated. So the main thing Oatsmaster has done this game is pretty baseless. You can make tonereads or vibe reads or whatever, but the substance in Oatsmaster's play just isn't there, despite plenty of opportunity.
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On June 08 2024 20:47 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 20:39 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:36 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 20:34 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:18 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 08:38 Mocsta wrote:On June 08 2024 08:10 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 04:07 Trfel wrote:Having second thoughts about marvellosity. I think I do actually want to pursue this after all. On June 07 2024 22:27 marvellosity wrote:On June 07 2024 19:27 Trfel wrote:
[quote]Yeah idk. The more I think about this (plus his previous post where he says he doesn't like Vivax) the more I am suspicious.
If Kelsi3r doesn't know what AlphaZero's point about scott31337 means with regards to scott31337's alignment, that should lead to there being less reason to townread AlphaZero (and also anyone else) for this reasoning, no? Of course you don't always have to agree with someone's reasoning to think it makes them look towny, but it certainly helps. Furthermore, I could understand it better if he just said that it made AlphaZero look better, since they were the first to clearly lay out that line of thinking. But to add on that rsoultin looks good, purely for agreeing, when Kelsi3r himself doesn't even know if the point means anything for scott31337's alignment? Seems out of place.
And to add, the only person he said he didn't like, Vivax, also commented on this kind of idea. Vivax didn't put scott31337's posts in contrast like AlphaZero did, but he (rightfully) pointed out that one of scott31337's posts in question didn't make a ton of sense. It wasn't exactly the same idea, but it was somewhat similar, and this was (presumably) enough to make AlphaZero say that Vivax looks town. Kelsi3r seems to have ignored this entirely, however?
New top suspect, I think. I agree with this, the logic doesn’t track. On June 08 2024 01:18 marvellosity wrote:
I actually agreed with sand’s take on kelsier (sort of as a response to Scott here)
When I read mocstas vote on kelsier “you’re being intentionally obtuse”, I just thought well that’s a townie trait if ever I heard one So marvellosity agreed with me that Kelsi3r's logic didn't make sense, but then still includes Kelsi3r in the "town" category because Mocsta said he was being obtuse and that's a town trait? Reading through marvellosity's filter, I do still like that he acknowledged my point on Kelsi3r, and I like his line of questioning to Mocsta about his read change on me (Trfel). But he hasn't done really anything else of substance? It looks like his top suspects are scott31337 and Mocsta, and other than putting scott31337 at the bottom of his list post, he hasn't even mentioned him. Just feels uncharacteristically disjointed. I don't get the impression that he is looking for mafia, and I don't get the impression that he cares enough about his (few) thoughts to remember them later. I can talk about this. I bought into what sand was selling me. So that’s why Scott and kelsier were where they were. Mocsta I was/am suspicious of, still primarily because I think he was making it up when he talked about the posts you made. aawwwwww Mate. I probably shouldn't have posted my first post Game started at 10 for me and earliest chance I had to read was 4 sitting on plane In short hectic mad day and I was so excited to make intro post for first time.in maybe 6years.. I see the length of the game and was like wtf I dont have time.to do this before take.off and lose reception. Quickly skim and rsoultin and trfel.poats were the ones where my mind just disconnected from. Could not engage So put it out there to just have out it out there I wouldn't say the post content was forced because it's how I felt at that moment, although the sentiment that I needed to post something , yes was forced It's also part of why I retracted once I landed and read thoroughly This is his explanation for the stuff I picked up on with regards to your early posting. I understand that people make mistakes (especially early) but do I buy this? Is it the right sort of mistake? Is it the sort of mistake town makes? It’s not carelessness, it’s a characterisation of your posts as forced/contrived. It’s difficult tbh. Hmm, honestly I didn't view this as a mistake. Maybe that's my error. But a lot of people expressed a similar sentiment regarding my early posting, unless I am missing something I don't think his claim itself was unreasonable at all. There is the part where he wasn't able to back it up with evidence upon request. It's a little strange, heck I bet I could go into my filter and fabricate the explanation in question, but I actually think it's maybe more likely to come from town. Possibilities: - Mocsta is town, and due to a few combined factors (plane flight/setting change, me posting more and him getting a more meaningful read on me which quite possibly colors his perception of previous posts), didn't read the earlier posts the same way - Mocsta is mafia, and instead of forcing an explanation, gave it up. Like, if it was me and I was mafia there, I'm 10000% giving a forced explanation there, even if I can't remember what I was initially thinking I'm gonna make something up. I would never back down there. Maybe Mocsta is just a different player from me but I don't actually see the mafia motivation for this? The claim is too vague and easy to provide fake reasoning for, honestly if he's mafia I think he took a much harder route by backing down from it. He’s admitting it as a mistake Trfel lol. Wtf? To the bolded: who exactly? Raynpelikoneet, rsoultin, sandroba, maybe even AlphaZero? And sure, Mocsta said it was a mistake, but I disagree I think it's more likely that his perspective changed, causing him to interpret the same posts in a different way. I mean if you want to call that a mistake then sure, I wouldn't say that though. No no no. They did not say the same things. Commenting on your early posting is different from what/how they are commenting about. I guess even if they said different things, I interpreted the things people said to be coming from the same place/caused by the same things. Specifically, I was playing at a band concert and thus was on my phone and it was the start of the game and I was joking around and messing with people instead of actually playing the game. Eventually, I got home to my computer and there was more to talk about, and so this changed. People pointed out different things about the initial playstyle, but unless you can explain why some of those claims are more or less valid than others, I am not sure what you are getting at.
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On June 08 2024 20:20 AlphaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 20:06 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:01 AlphaZero wrote:On June 08 2024 19:56 Trfel wrote:
AlphaZero, honestly I get the impression you are ignoring me. Which isn't the worst thing in the world, but I would at least like to clarify if it's because you think I am mafia or because you think I am not being productive or what. Honestly I’m not ignoring you intentionally. I’m reading and considering about your posts. I don’t really agree with some of your conclusions, but I don’t want to stop you from doing your thing, or get bogged down in arguing about it. Did I miss a question you asked me? I’m just using the little time I have to follow my own lines of inquiry. Fair enough. Also if you have limited time then by all means focus on what stands out to you. If your time wasn't limited I was wondering about your Oatsmaster read, since you seem very convinced he is town and as I described, it's hard for me to see that right now. Vibe and meta. Last game he was obvious mafia.Game before that was a massive outlier. And honestly I just like his posting. I can’t point to something and prove that he is town, But it just seemed really obvious to me at some point. Obviously that’s probably not helpful for your read on oats. But I’m certainly not the only player who feels that way about oats this game, so I guess maybe you could suspend disbelief for the rest of the phase? Sorry for taking so long to get to this, I do appreciate it. Just got busy doing other things and fell behind, had to switch to my computer to catch up.
I get that more people seem to townread Oatsmaster than otherwise. Oatsmaster's meta is the main reason I'm not voting for him right now. I can drop it for a while, sure, but you ought to be careful saying stuff like that, or Oatsmaster will attack you over it
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On June 08 2024 20:57 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 20:51 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:47 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 08 2024 20:26 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:16 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 08 2024 20:08 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:05 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 08 2024 19:33 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 17:10 Mocsta wrote:
Hi trfel
.your post #715 on oats
I don't really get it
I had a read of oats filter and didn't see the same things you raised.
His filter is consistent focus and attitude/tone. He's kept prodding the same things regardless of buy in, which yes can be scummy. Yet. He's updating the read as the conviction increases which I find townie.
There was a post early game about you and Ryan that stuck out to me and made me wonder about a scum duo of rayn and oats but that's really clutching at straws and nothing I intend to pursue. Thanks for taking the time. I guess I didn't even see a ton of Oatsmaster bringing up the same things, I can try and look again though. @marvellosity, I think Mocsta is easier to read than several other players this game due to a combination of activity and unique thoughts. He's been present and involved and has been very willing to provide his own take, which often differs from that of everyone else and the thread consensus. I think this gives a lot of extra information with which we can figure out his alignment more easily. Also, someone asked about die_meatbaby's meta, I'm far from an expert but I would say her play matches my expectations close enough. That doesn't mean she is town or mafia necessarily, but this is the kind of play I was expecting. With the Vivax focus, paranoia of influential players, hesitance to commit to early reads, etc. Kinda confused about what these last 2-3 pages were about but I'm too lazy/sleepy to go to my computer and actually figure it out, oh well Too lazy to visit the links Mocsta brought up about scott31337, can someone tell me if it makes sense or not? Happy to talk about most anything, but prefer to talk about Kelsi3r or Oatsmaster. Why do you think it’s good to talk about me when I’m clearly not a day 1 lynch? Is it not the exact same situation as alpha zero? One and a half differences. One difference: I brought legit reasons to talk about. Not random suspicions and paranoia and spookies. Half difference: not being able to figure out your alignment, especially having such a dramatically different take on it than everyone else does, is driving me insane. Your legit reasons are random spookiness to everyone else as you can see it hasn’t gained any traction. So again I ask, what’s the difference? Your main point was that alpha zero wasn’t a day 1 lynch so he shouldn’t be discussed No, no, that's not how this works. Reasons can be good or bad, random spookiness isn't a bad reason, it's no reason, it's fearmongering. I've said this like five times now. One more. I don't want to discuss someone if all of the following are true: 1. near a lynch deadline 2. the person in question is extremely unlikely to be lynched 3. there are no actual reasons presented to suspect the person. Note that this is very different from bad reasons. Once again, and for the last time, all three things have to be true. As you can see this with AlphaZero, I didn't want to discuss him when there were no reasons. As soon as Mocsta posted his reasons, I discussed it with him, and I would be happy to continue discussing based on those reasons. I don't get how this is so hard to understand? Damn 1-3 are all true for what you think about me. If 3 isn’t true then surely you can quote some posts that I made right? What the heck do you think this was?!?!! On June 08 2024 14:23 Trfel wrote:Sorry for getting frustrated earlier. I shouldn't try and play when I have company over. Again, I'm more than happy to talk about AlphaZero if anyone has any specifics to discuss. I don't want to just point fingers and suspicions for no reason, that doesn't help anyone. Either get serious and give actual reasons or wait until you have actual reasons, if discrediting people for no reason is commonly acceptable, the game becomes a mess. Maybe I'm blind but I haven't seen any substantial reasons to suspect AlphaZero posted so far.
OatsmasterOn June 08 2024 00:05 Oatsmaster wrote:
Vivax mafia On June 08 2024 05:08 Oatsmaster wrote:
I think vivax is easily mafia here though, he’s playing super scared to make posts and has resorted to posting inane townreads On June 08 2024 08:02 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 08 2024 07:45 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 07:39 AlphaZero wrote:On June 08 2024 07:32 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 06:38 AlphaZero wrote:
Oats and Sandro are top town.
Trfel is really worrying me. On the surface is very pro town, but also playing in a clearly different way to his prior games. I don’t really like his scum reads at all. I don’t level as if he is being that proactive in getting kelsier lynched, even though he apparently strongly suspects him.
And I find his reasoning for his scumreads much weaker than his other posts. I agree with a lot of his analysis but not when it comes to finding mafia…
I think his Smurf hunting made more sense logically than his scum reads which bothers me.
I wouldn’t lynch today, but if there is an active mafia hiding it’s this guy.
Scott just looks bad to me, completely forgettable, aside from his question that has already been analysed I couldn’t tell you why exactly. His scum hunting just comes across as manufactured,
Won’t lynch Marv today.
Rso has felt town by vibe.
Vivax I think is not consistently giving me good reasons to town read him
Rayn is being Rayn. Pretty much null.
Mocsta: looked better disengaging than when he was trying to do stuff. Don’t know what that means.
Kelsier: anyone with a strong opinion here is sus. Very null.
Rest need to post more or post more meaningful stuff. I guess I dunno what more I can do with Kelsi3r, people aren't super interested in lynching him, it is what it is. I mean I could definitely be wrong. But if he is mafia and gets through this it's not due to my lack of trying. I guess if he is town and doesn't change anything and survives that's also not due to my lack of trying But you get my point. Is your "won't lynch marvellosity" thing a town read thing or a waiting thing? It’s a “bad idea to try and lynch Marv day one thing” when he is playing the game and seems to be enjoying things. Fair, I understand that view. Not sure if I agree but I at least get it. I would definitely be very sad to lynch him, like I said, he's the funniest player so far. That's a pretty big motivator.
People seem to have strong opinions on sandroba and Vivax and I'm just not seeing it right now. (same with Oatsmaster but that's on me for being bad so I expect this, it doesn't worry me yet) Can anyone post or point me to a reasonable explanation of reading sandroba or Vivax? ? Vivax just randomly calling posts town you think is good? Also him bring afraid to post is good? Also him not constantly seeing shadows? On June 08 2024 09:45 Oatsmaster wrote:
Vivax coming in and complaining about me is clsssic scum!vivax cmon.
The Scott stuff kinda boring, I get it but he’s not mafia These are the important posts I found in Oatsmaster's filter. The rest are mostly questions or random comments, basically things other than sharing his thoughts and pushing his reads. I realize this is subjective, so here is Oatsmaster's filter if you want to look for yourself. Honestly for having made 61 game posts, I'm pretty underwhelmed. He's had plenty of opportunity, and all he's come up with is this weird Vivax push. I'd like to break down his reasons for suspecting/pushing Vivax. 1. Vivax is scared to post (I'll reinterpret this as Vivax not being very active, it's hard for me to understand how you can interpret a lack of activity as mafia being scared to post) 2. Vivax has made silly townreads without reasoning to back them up 3. Vivax isn't constantly seeing shadows (I think this means he isn't being tinfoil-y?) 4. This post from Vivax is a classic mafia post: On June 08 2024 08:20 Vivax wrote:On June 08 2024 08:02 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 08 2024 07:45 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 07:39 AlphaZero wrote:On June 08 2024 07:32 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 06:38 AlphaZero wrote:
Oats and Sandro are top town.
Trfel is really worrying me. On the surface is very pro town, but also playing in a clearly different way to his prior games. I don’t really like his scum reads at all. I don’t level as if he is being that proactive in getting kelsier lynched, even though he apparently strongly suspects him.
And I find his reasoning for his scumreads much weaker than his other posts. I agree with a lot of his analysis but not when it comes to finding mafia…
I think his Smurf hunting made more sense logically than his scum reads which bothers me.
I wouldn’t lynch today, but if there is an active mafia hiding it’s this guy.
Scott just looks bad to me, completely forgettable, aside from his question that has already been analysed I couldn’t tell you why exactly. His scum hunting just comes across as manufactured,
Won’t lynch Marv today.
Rso has felt town by vibe.
Vivax I think is not consistently giving me good reasons to town read him
Rayn is being Rayn. Pretty much null.
Mocsta: looked better disengaging than when he was trying to do stuff. Don’t know what that means.
Kelsier: anyone with a strong opinion here is sus. Very null.
Rest need to post more or post more meaningful stuff. I guess I dunno what more I can do with Kelsi3r, people aren't super interested in lynching him, it is what it is. I mean I could definitely be wrong. But if he is mafia and gets through this it's not due to my lack of trying. I guess if he is town and doesn't change anything and survives that's also not due to my lack of trying But you get my point. Is your "won't lynch marvellosity" thing a town read thing or a waiting thing? It’s a “bad idea to try and lynch Marv day one thing” when he is playing the game and seems to be enjoying things. Fair, I understand that view. Not sure if I agree but I at least get it. I would definitely be very sad to lynch him, like I said, he's the funniest player so far. That's a pretty big motivator.
People seem to have strong opinions on sandroba and Vivax and I'm just not seeing it right now. (same with Oatsmaster but that's on me for being bad so I expect this, it doesn't worry me yet) Can anyone post or point me to a reasonable explanation of reading sandroba or Vivax? ? Vivax just randomly calling posts town you think is good? Also him bring afraid to post is good? Also him not constantly seeing shadows? AZ calls you blanket top town too and it doesn‘t bother you. Doesn‘t surprise me you‘d miss that detail, so it‘s meh. Honestly I don't think these reasons are very good at all. 1. Vivax isn't very active. I don't think low activity means someone is mafia, this is very underwhelming. 2. Vivax made silly townreads without reason. It's common for people to make early townreads with little/no reasoning, and I think this is especially common for Vivax, actually. No clue why this is supposed to be suspicious. 3. Vivax isn't tinfoily. It's 27.5 hours in, there isn't much to be tinfoily about. That tends to happen more in longer games. 4. That post comes from mafia. I think Vivax is making a valid point in the post, I don't see why it is mafia motivated. So the main thing Oatsmaster has done this game is pretty baseless. You can make tonereads or vibe reads or whatever, but the substance in Oatsmaster's play just isn't there, despite plenty of opportunity. You quoted my obviously good push on vivax that everyone else in the game liked congrats. What other things in my filter are underwhelming I'm going to drop this for now because AlphaZero said to. If you have an issue with this, take it up with him.
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EPT
