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On June 10 2024 04:07 Vivax wrote:
Ok Trfel might be mafia that post was terrible Good luck 
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On June 10 2024 04:23 Vivax wrote:
He has a 10 page filter tho.
Gah I think I should just focus on scott.
I wanna see how AZ intends to get him launched tho Nooo, it was just about to get good 
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Vivax
Vivax seemed to scumread both scott31337 and Kelsi3r. He spent much of his day 1 trying to figure out which was the better lynch (while suspecting both). See these posts (for example) about his increasing desire to lynch Kelsi3r:On June 09 2024 07:18 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 07:03 Mocsta wrote:
I'm becoming more and more open to lynch outside kelsier
He doesn't looked bullied out to me as his tone is pretty consistent start to finish
I still think his tone specifically to me is more unhelpful mafia than town, however the nonchalantness is somewhat consistent even after which I am.imcreasingly.viewing as townie
...
I really don't want to vote Scott for mason stuff
Is there a case outside of that?
....
Rsoultin I will give sandroba a read I think the opposite the less Kelsier does the more I want to lynch him. Feels like a weird defense here if you don‘t have a particularly strong conviction outside of that. On June 09 2024 07:51 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 07:46 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 07:39 Vivax wrote:
I‘m comfy with Az taking the reins here. They seem competent and townish to me.
Them pitting Oats against me was a bit dickish tho If you do this, He's going to want to lynch me and I'll flip town. Only if you lynch him D2 is this a suitable outcome. There‘s people I think are around but just choosing not to post. Mocsta and him would be my guess. I‘m moving to Kelsier. He doesn‘t appear motivated anyway. On June 09 2024 08:45 Vivax wrote:
What I like about scott is that he seemed pretty genuine as of late. He isn‘t really trying every trick in the book to keep himself afloat just doing his thing.
Kelsier might have given up as either alignment. Then Vivax has this reason to vote for scott31337:On June 09 2024 09:43 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 09:19 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 09:04 AlphaZero wrote:On June 09 2024 08:59 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 08:58 rsoultin wrote:On June 09 2024 08:47 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 08:45 Vivax wrote:
What I like about scott is that he seemed pretty genuine as of late. He isn‘t really trying every trick in the book to keep himself afloat just doing his thing.
Kelsier might have given up as either alignment. town can also not want to be mislynched.. is this 'effort'notion a scott meta thing? at the risk of answering for viva if scum's gonna keep posting they want to either 1) try to get the lynch off them 2) shit up the thread or they just roll over i guess there's the third option of trying to get more attention so it's off a scummate if you've got two scum up for lynch? i wouldn't say that's what scott's posting looks like. guy's been scumread from minute 1 and still is just bebopping around salient notion alphazero - where does that sit with you? Well he is trying to survive, to me he just continues to exhibit the traits that o find scummy and I outlined above. Says things and can’t provide foundations or reasoning that can really be taken seriously. We can even contrast that with your own play, you have looked substantially more town aligned the more you interacted and explained thought processes and your reads have changed and grown as that has happened. Scott’s reads haven’t changed and he hasn’t looked any better. That is classic mafia trait imo. I favor Oats more than the last magical time you are making up. That's a change of read. Rsoul is a little higher on my list as well. Trfel isn't going to change much today unless he does something stupid. What's there to change on DMB,sandroba, and Alakaslam? They haven't posted. Marv isn't coming back tonight from his word. Kelsi3r - nuff said Mocsta - I still town read him even if he gets junk from other people. Is still thinking reasonable, unlike yourself. Vivax - I wouldn't lynch today either. Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 09:38 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 09:33 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 09:29 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 09:18 Mocsta wrote:
one underlying issue i have with scott is that
when he was getting heat and i backed him, he made some posts that soft buddied to me.. which i thought was completely reasonable if town.
my issue therefore is that, as my read with AZ has shifted and evolved, hes not paid attention (publicly at least) to it.. no comments or impact on scotts AZ read is very weird to me.
now scott says hes completely up to date, so its been read, and apparently not relevant - so again. i find this super super weird and struggling to identify how town would do that. AZ is not the lynch today unless everyone expands their mind. So forgive me for not spending the energy nested into such. But he's my #2 still - so help me out - maybe I missed a point of yours. Excuse me but what do you mean by the bolded. Town. Yes. I'm town. But that doesn't answer the question. If you're so convinced we should lynch AZ which I suppose you are by saying that the mind of town is closed, why isn't he in the list ? And then this?On June 09 2024 10:52 Vivax wrote:
Considering the time I‘ll just let Kelsier happen ig He sounds so sad about lynching Kelsi3r, who he was very content to lynch for much of the day, and was getting increasingly happy to lynch until scott31337 did something that stuck out to him as especially scummy. This doesn't add up from the town perspective, Vivax ought to be at least content with a Kelsi3r lynch.
Then, Vivax has a series of posts after the deadline about scott31337 being town:On June 09 2024 12:07 Vivax wrote:
Scott is never going to get lynched on D2, and he isn‘t going to get vigged either. Going by experience.
Doesn‘t have to be a bad thing but it means we look for 2-3 outside of him. On June 09 2024 12:13 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 12:09 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 09 2024 12:07 Vivax wrote:
Scott is never going to get lynched on D2, and he isn‘t going to get vigged either. Going by experience.
Doesn‘t have to be a bad thing but it means we look for 2-3 outside of him. how about giving a look on ninja rayn or az Az lookedlike he was posting forcibly around EoD, rayn didn‘t make himself readable. Townies can have reasons to refuse to be readable. To be honest everyone has good reason to refuse to be readable. I‘d guess the masons of the day were rayn and Trfel. The flip doesn‘t automatically make Scott more scummy, if you were town in his situation you‘d understand why, so look at those who think so. On June 09 2024 12:17 Vivax wrote:
With the Kelsier flip and if he‘s town, Scott starts becoming useful to mafia. On June 09 2024 12:35 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 12:32 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 12:25 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 12:18 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 12:13 Vivax wrote:
The flip doesn‘t automatically make Scott more scummy, if you were town in his situation you‘d understand why, so look at those who think so. help me out, im being dumb dumb the only reason i can see is this from marv https://tl.net/forum/mafia/625928-sweet-summer-mafia?page=66#1302like.. why cant mafia have wagoned kelsier to save scott equally? i get in marv of rsoultin, he is expecting the most likely answer is double-town wagon; yet, why cannot it not be an effort to save scott equally? It‘s beneficial to take sides as mafia here. Or maybe look undecided. They only have two buffets to choose from and don‘t have to be active so there‘s zero downside to being active, preferrably on the side of the one who‘s going to remain unflipped. Without accounting for players who are time constrained or just don‘t care enough. i see which feeds into my ongoing concerns with how the kelsi3r train was building i dont want to blanket discard how d1 unfolded for you; heuristically for me, its really hard to not acknowledge the complexities of having 1/3 of town to barely post for the 24hrs before lynch. it makes it hard for me to then follow your interpretation. i am in agreement with the other post that there should be options outside of scott tomorrow though. Right ? Wouldn‘t make much sense after a majority decided to spare him. My next favourite would be the rsoultin slot because theirs was one of the deciding votes. Not necessarily to lynch but definitely to consider. Which makes absolutely no sense given that he still strongly believes that scott31337 is mafia. How is not lynching scott31337, who is mafia, a bad thing? That's absolutely a bad thing! Vivax was seemingly frustrated that he had to settle for the Kelsi3r lynch instead of lynching scott31337, why is he suddenly accepting the "majority-decided" verdict of keeping scott31337 alive and why is that a reason to focus on other people instead?
It's not that what Vivax is saying is wrong necessarily, or in other words, it's completely fine to have alternative lynch options to scott31337. But from the perspective of someone who thinks scott31337 is mafia, and just missed out on lynching him, why is his focus on finding other people to focus on (besides scott31337) and what it means if scott31337 is town? Why isn't his focus on scott31337 being mafia? If Vivax was no longer scumreading scott31337 then this makes sense, but that isn't the case at all:On June 10 2024 00:16 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 00:14 Trfel wrote:On June 09 2024 23:53 Vivax wrote:
I have a townread on dmb fwiw. She seems very relaxed tonally.
I‘d like a doc on marv.
I‘d like rayn to play the game.
I love GabeN Is scott31337 mafia still? I think so. Don‘t understand his post about AZ if he isn‘t. The end result is that Vivax is very suspicious. There hasn't been the normal insightful thinking or tinfoil, he seemed very happy with the two wagons day 1 (scott31337 and Kelsi3r), despite the odds of both being mafia being quite low. I would have thought this was even more suspicious for someone with paranoia like Vivax, but instead he seems quite content with the gamestate.
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I was really hoping that Vivax would go after me more and give himself away but unfortunately he backed down
Does anyone have a reason that Vivax might not be mafia? Because I don't really have reservations tbh, besides potentially activity level.
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On June 10 2024 05:07 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 04:58 Trfel wrote:Vivax+ Show Spoiler +Vivax seemed to scumread both scott31337 and Kelsi3r. He spent much of his day 1 trying to figure out which was the better lynch (while suspecting both). See these posts (for example) about his increasing desire to lynch Kelsi3r: On June 09 2024 07:18 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 07:03 Mocsta wrote:
I'm becoming more and more open to lynch outside kelsier
He doesn't looked bullied out to me as his tone is pretty consistent start to finish
I still think his tone specifically to me is more unhelpful mafia than town, however the nonchalantness is somewhat consistent even after which I am.imcreasingly.viewing as townie
...
I really don't want to vote Scott for mason stuff
Is there a case outside of that?
....
Rsoultin I will give sandroba a read I think the opposite the less Kelsier does the more I want to lynch him. Feels like a weird defense here if you don‘t have a particularly strong conviction outside of that. On June 09 2024 07:51 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 07:46 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 07:39 Vivax wrote:
I‘m comfy with Az taking the reins here. They seem competent and townish to me.
Them pitting Oats against me was a bit dickish tho If you do this, He's going to want to lynch me and I'll flip town. Only if you lynch him D2 is this a suitable outcome. There‘s people I think are around but just choosing not to post. Mocsta and him would be my guess. I‘m moving to Kelsier. He doesn‘t appear motivated anyway. On June 09 2024 08:45 Vivax wrote:
What I like about scott is that he seemed pretty genuine as of late. He isn‘t really trying every trick in the book to keep himself afloat just doing his thing.
Kelsier might have given up as either alignment. Then Vivax has this reason to vote for scott31337: On June 09 2024 09:43 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 09:19 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 09:04 AlphaZero wrote:On June 09 2024 08:59 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 08:58 rsoultin wrote:On June 09 2024 08:47 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 08:45 Vivax wrote:
What I like about scott is that he seemed pretty genuine as of late. He isn‘t really trying every trick in the book to keep himself afloat just doing his thing.
Kelsier might have given up as either alignment. town can also not want to be mislynched.. is this 'effort'notion a scott meta thing? at the risk of answering for viva if scum's gonna keep posting they want to either 1) try to get the lynch off them 2) shit up the thread or they just roll over i guess there's the third option of trying to get more attention so it's off a scummate if you've got two scum up for lynch? i wouldn't say that's what scott's posting looks like. guy's been scumread from minute 1 and still is just bebopping around salient notion alphazero - where does that sit with you? Well he is trying to survive, to me he just continues to exhibit the traits that o find scummy and I outlined above. Says things and can’t provide foundations or reasoning that can really be taken seriously. We can even contrast that with your own play, you have looked substantially more town aligned the more you interacted and explained thought processes and your reads have changed and grown as that has happened. Scott’s reads haven’t changed and he hasn’t looked any better. That is classic mafia trait imo. I favor Oats more than the last magical time you are making up. That's a change of read. Rsoul is a little higher on my list as well. Trfel isn't going to change much today unless he does something stupid. What's there to change on DMB,sandroba, and Alakaslam? They haven't posted. Marv isn't coming back tonight from his word. Kelsi3r - nuff said Mocsta - I still town read him even if he gets junk from other people. Is still thinking reasonable, unlike yourself. Vivax - I wouldn't lynch today either. Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 09:38 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 09:33 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 09:29 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 09:18 Mocsta wrote:
one underlying issue i have with scott is that
when he was getting heat and i backed him, he made some posts that soft buddied to me.. which i thought was completely reasonable if town.
my issue therefore is that, as my read with AZ has shifted and evolved, hes not paid attention (publicly at least) to it.. no comments or impact on scotts AZ read is very weird to me.
now scott says hes completely up to date, so its been read, and apparently not relevant - so again. i find this super super weird and struggling to identify how town would do that. AZ is not the lynch today unless everyone expands their mind. So forgive me for not spending the energy nested into such. But he's my #2 still - so help me out - maybe I missed a point of yours. Excuse me but what do you mean by the bolded. Town. Yes. I'm town. But that doesn't answer the question. If you're so convinced we should lynch AZ which I suppose you are by saying that the mind of town is closed, why isn't he in the list ? And then this? On June 09 2024 10:52 Vivax wrote:
Considering the time I‘ll just let Kelsier happen ig He sounds so sad about lynching Kelsi3r, who he was very content to lynch for much of the day, and was getting increasingly happy to lynch until scott31337 did something that stuck out to him as especially scummy. This doesn't add up from the town perspective, Vivax ought to be at least content with a Kelsi3r lynch. Then, Vivax has a series of posts after the deadline about scott31337 being town: On June 09 2024 12:07 Vivax wrote:
Scott is never going to get lynched on D2, and he isn‘t going to get vigged either. Going by experience.
Doesn‘t have to be a bad thing but it means we look for 2-3 outside of him. On June 09 2024 12:13 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 12:09 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 09 2024 12:07 Vivax wrote:
Scott is never going to get lynched on D2, and he isn‘t going to get vigged either. Going by experience.
Doesn‘t have to be a bad thing but it means we look for 2-3 outside of him. how about giving a look on ninja rayn or az Az lookedlike he was posting forcibly around EoD, rayn didn‘t make himself readable. Townies can have reasons to refuse to be readable. To be honest everyone has good reason to refuse to be readable. I‘d guess the masons of the day were rayn and Trfel. The flip doesn‘t automatically make Scott more scummy, if you were town in his situation you‘d understand why, so look at those who think so. On June 09 2024 12:17 Vivax wrote:
With the Kelsier flip and if he‘s town, Scott starts becoming useful to mafia. On June 09 2024 12:35 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 12:32 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 12:25 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 12:18 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 12:13 Vivax wrote:
The flip doesn‘t automatically make Scott more scummy, if you were town in his situation you‘d understand why, so look at those who think so. help me out, im being dumb dumb the only reason i can see is this from marv https://tl.net/forum/mafia/625928-sweet-summer-mafia?page=66#1302like.. why cant mafia have wagoned kelsier to save scott equally? i get in marv of rsoultin, he is expecting the most likely answer is double-town wagon; yet, why cannot it not be an effort to save scott equally? It‘s beneficial to take sides as mafia here. Or maybe look undecided. They only have two buffets to choose from and don‘t have to be active so there‘s zero downside to being active, preferrably on the side of the one who‘s going to remain unflipped. Without accounting for players who are time constrained or just don‘t care enough. i see which feeds into my ongoing concerns with how the kelsi3r train was building i dont want to blanket discard how d1 unfolded for you; heuristically for me, its really hard to not acknowledge the complexities of having 1/3 of town to barely post for the 24hrs before lynch. it makes it hard for me to then follow your interpretation. i am in agreement with the other post that there should be options outside of scott tomorrow though. Right ? Wouldn‘t make much sense after a majority decided to spare him. My next favourite would be the rsoultin slot because theirs was one of the deciding votes. Not necessarily to lynch but definitely to consider. Which makes absolutely no sense given that he still strongly believes that scott31337 is mafia. How is not lynching scott31337, who is mafia, a bad thing? That's absolutely a bad thing! Vivax was seemingly frustrated that he had to settle for the Kelsi3r lynch instead of lynching scott31337, why is he suddenly accepting the "majority-decided" verdict of keeping scott31337 alive and why is that a reason to focus on other people instead? It's not that what Vivax is saying is wrong necessarily, or in other words, it's completely fine to have alternative lynch options to scott31337. But from the perspective of someone who thinks scott31337 is mafia, and just missed out on lynching him, why is his focus on finding other people to focus on (besides scott31337) and what it means if scott31337 is town? Why isn't his focus on scott31337 being mafia? If Vivax was no longer scumreading scott31337 then this makes sense, but that isn't the case at all: On June 10 2024 00:16 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 00:14 Trfel wrote:On June 09 2024 23:53 Vivax wrote:
I have a townread on dmb fwiw. She seems very relaxed tonally.
I‘d like a doc on marv.
I‘d like rayn to play the game.
I love GabeN Is scott31337 mafia still? I think so. Don‘t understand his post about AZ if he isn‘t. The end result is that Vivax is very suspicious. There hasn't been the normal insightful thinking or tinfoil, he seemed very happy with the two wagons day 1 (scott31337 and Kelsi3r), despite the odds of both being mafia being quite low. I would have thought this was even more suspicious for someone with paranoia like Vivax, but instead he seems quite content with the gamestate. What is the core of your case? You believe town!Vivax should be trying to convince the thread to lynch scott more because his mindset is that scott is sure mafia? The fact Vivax is not doing that makes you think that this is mafia!Vivax faking reads. Because some of the quotes from your previous case felt like it was just Vivax bantering and being at worst apathic about towns capabilities based on previous games and stuff. Vivax's play doesn't make sense from a theoretical town mindset. As in, I can't put together a mindset that is congruent with Vivax's posting.
If Vivax is down on town's capabilities or chances, that's fine. In fact, that would make sense. See how AlphaZero and marvellosity were so frustrated after scott31337 didn't get lynched? They've only recently stopped complaining about it!
Quote by quote:
1. It's semi-understandable for Vivax to say that scott31337 isn't going to be lynched day 2 and isn't going to be shot by a vigilante. I mean I disagree but whatever. But then Vivax adds "doesn't have to be a bad thing." How is keeping someone alive that he is confident is mafia not a bad thing? The only possible way I could see this not being a disaster is if town manages to find and lynch other mafia... the same town that Vivax isn't happy with performance-wise, right? How does it make sense for Vivax as town to be disappointed in town's performance but also seemingly okay with letting mafia!scott31337 walk free?
2. Why would Vivax recommend looking at people who are thinking scott31337 is more scummy after the flip? The only people who might think this are the people who are trying to lynch scott31337, or at least are thinking scott31337 is mafia.... just like Vivax? So the people who are trying to lynch Vivax's strong scumread?
3. Why does Vivax care what town!scott31337's existence means to a mafia team? He thinks scott31337 is mafia!
4. Vivax says it wouldn't make much sense to not lynch scott31337 because "the majority decided to spare him." I think that's a pretty bad argument, but even if Vivax doesn't, is that argument more compelling than his desire to lynch obviously mafia scott31337? Apparently it is.
Basically, Vivax's posts don't make sense. If Vivax is town, scumreading scott31337, there is no way he should be making those posts.
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On June 10 2024 05:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why are you not scumreading me Trfel? I'm just not sure if you are mafia? No real opinion yet tbh.
Should I have a more solid opinion?
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I mean honestly there are no reasons to think either of you are town
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@Scott31337, can I ask about this part of your case in particular?Here he casts more doubt - I lynched my top scumread and that flipped town, so let's go for my #2 scumread!
Now from AZ's perspective if he's mafia (and I still believe he is) he would consider his scrumreads town (Unless they are terrible). Sandroba is a good example. I'm honestly not sure what you're trying to say here. Particularly the second sentence.
The rest of the case I think I see what you're trying to say, but you lost me here.
On June 10 2024 05:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 05:47 Trfel wrote:On June 10 2024 05:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why are you not scumreading me Trfel? I'm just not sure if you are mafia? No real opinion yet tbh. Should I have a more solid opinion? maybe, i'd like to think you would. I mean you were gone for quite a while and I haven't had a moment to think clearly about you since you came back... Maybe I'll have more of an opinion once I can look at things more closely.
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Honestly my first impression is that Vivax and die_meatbaby are trying to distance from each other.
Could be that just one of them is mafia, or I guess maybe that neither is mafia, but I think both could also be mafia. I have reason to think they both (individually, separately) could be mafia, and very little reason to think otherwise.
Just seems like the most plausible explanation is one (or even both) of them decided to try and clutter the thread to defend themselves/distract from the actual arguments against them.
@raynpelikoneet, I disagree that sandroba's posting was great when he was here. It was.... okay at best imo? But I don't think there's anything special about it. That doesn't mean he has to be mafia, but a lack of interesting or insightful thoughts, combined with nonexistent activity/involvement, is a reasonable case.
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On June 10 2024 07:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 07:55 Trfel wrote:
Honestly my first impression is that Vivax and die_meatbaby are trying to distance from each other.
Could be that just one of them is mafia, or I guess maybe that neither is mafia, but I think both could also be mafia. I have reason to think they both (individually, separately) could be mafia, and very little reason to think otherwise.
Just seems like the most plausible explanation is one (or even both) of them decided to try and clutter the thread to defend themselves/distract from the actual arguments against them. i literally adviced them to do so, if you didnt catch that? Why are you making this argument? If you have to blame anyone, blame me for their "show"... Show nested quote +@raynpelikoneet, I disagree that sandroba's posting was great when he was here. It was.... okay at best imo? But I don't think there's anything special about it. That doesn't mean he has to be mafia, but a lack of interesting or insightful thoughts, combined with nonexistent activity/involvement, is a reasonable case. i didn't say great. and i can't say he looks townie now when not posting. noone can. If you think sandroba is mafia, go ahead. I am just talking about what i know when people were posting. What?
Maybe I phrased it poorly. What I meant was, it seems like they are both mafia, and realized that they're associating too closely and "fought" to try and change that. I know that's unflipped association, but it was my first thought.*
If you really want to say that they did this due to your advice, I mean sure, I can lynch you after them 
*Asterisk means: as I thought about it more, I still think that the argument makes sense if only one of them is mafia, baiting the other one into the argument but overall accomplishing the purpose of cluttering the thread and distracting from the actual arguments at hand.
Didn't you say sandroba's posting looked good or towny or something more positive? I forget the exact word. I wouldn't really attribute anything positive to it though, it felt solidly meh/null range. I was just bring it up since I think sandroba is very much worth considering, and you and marvellosity are the ones I think might benefit from reconsidering it.
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On June 10 2024 08:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Vivax/DMB is argument is really bad looking for Trfel tbh. I'm very confused by this, I provide reasons to suspect them, then they clutter up the thread with nonsense, after which you say it makes me look bad?
How does it make me look bad when my suspects are acting anti-town?
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On June 10 2024 08:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 08:05 Trfel wrote:On June 10 2024 08:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Vivax/DMB is argument is really bad looking for Trfel tbh. I'm very confused by this, I provide reasons to suspect them, then they clutter up the thread with nonsense, after which you say it makes me look bad? How does it make me look bad when my suspects are acting anti-town? I literally made them to clutter up the thread. How can you make that about them, just because "they did that"? I didnt see anything that makes either of them mafia, i thought it was tvt. Did you? I mean you did encourage them, but it's still their choice, no?
I don't like trying to characterize arguments as TvT or whatever, I think it's very difficult to do accurately with little reward.
Maybe a better approach is this:
Ignore the whole argument thing, it's hard to make sense of and it doesn't matter. There are reasons to suspect both Vivax and die_meatbaby individually that I think are well worth exploring, and I would like to go back to discussing those reasons. I'm not sure both are mafia, or even that one is, but they're both in my top suspects, so I would like to focus on that please.
In addition to the aforementioned reasons for Vivax, he's posted a lot, but I find his posts very uninspiring. I don't think there is anything he said that's particularly insightful, or anything he did that is particularly interesting. And he's had plenty of opportunity to do so. This is very subjective, so if you disagree that's fine, but I'd at least like a bit of evidence to back it up. Like, there are several, separate compelling reasons to lynch Vivax, I am not going to just let this slide.
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On June 10 2024 08:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 08:13 Trfel wrote:On June 10 2024 08:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 10 2024 08:05 Trfel wrote:On June 10 2024 08:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Vivax/DMB is argument is really bad looking for Trfel tbh. I'm very confused by this, I provide reasons to suspect them, then they clutter up the thread with nonsense, after which you say it makes me look bad? How does it make me look bad when my suspects are acting anti-town? I literally made them to clutter up the thread. How can you make that about them, just because "they did that"? I didnt see anything that makes either of them mafia, i thought it was tvt. Did you? I mean you did encourage them, but it's still their choice, no? I don't like trying to characterize arguments as TvT or whatever, I think it's very difficult to do accurately with little reward. Maybe a better approach is this: Ignore the whole argument thing, it's hard to make sense of and it doesn't matter. There are reasons to suspect both Vivax and die_meatbaby individually that I think are well worth exploring, and I would like to go back to discussing those reasons. I'm not sure both are mafia, or even that one is, but they're both in my top suspects, so I would like to focus on that please. In addition to the aforementioned reasons for Vivax, he's posted a lot, but I find his posts very uninspiring. I don't think there is anything he said that's particularly insightful, or anything he did that is particularly interesting. And he's had plenty of opportunity to do so. This is very subjective, so if you disagree that's fine, but I'd at least like a bit of evidence to back it up. Like, there are several, separate compelling reasons to lynch Vivax, I am not going to just let this slide. okay, and what about DMB? Don't have any super amazing reasons, but die_meatbaby also hasn't done anything that makes me think she is town.On June 09 2024 23:02 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 23:00 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 22:52 Trfel wrote:On June 09 2024 22:24 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 09 2024 21:36 Trfel wrote:
@AlphaZero, for what it's worth I wasn't trying to "lead" anything.
@marvellosity, I'd consider lowering sandroba for sure. Maybe Vivax too but he might be fine there (I'm probably just paranoid). And I honestly would put Koshi higher, which I know you don't want to hear.
Could be wrong, the one game I played with mafia!Koshi had the slight issue of me also being mafia so I didn't play, so idk what mafia!Koshi is like, but if I had to guess I don't think it would be this.
@Oatsmaster, why wouldn't the reverse apply? Like, why wouldn't mafia be happy lynching town!Kelsi3r and saving the town!scott31337 lynch for tomorrow? Because kel is an infinitely easier lynch tmr? You think so? I think scott31337 is a pretty easy lynch tomorrow (or at any point), but I could see that being wrong I suppose. Other than me and rsoultin, I don't think anyone was particularly vocal about not lynching scott31337?
@AlphaZero, I don't really have much to add. I tend to be right when I defend people suspected by most of the game, I think there was one time I was wrong maybe? But maybe you're right, I can stop, if scott31337 dies then so be it. Dmb wouldn't vote Scott It was literally in the post you last responded to me about I reckon dmb is not trying to solve the game and is scummy She said she wouldn't lynch scott31337 at this time but left the door wide, wide open for doing so in the future. So I wouldn't consider that a deterrent for future lynches. Yes, I agree that die_meatbaby could definitely be mafia. Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 10:01 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 08 2024 09:57 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 08 2024 09:46 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 08 2024 09:36 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 08 2024 09:04 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 08 2024 08:17 AlphaZero wrote:
I’ll lynch vivax with you oats.
Vote:vivax Is first time you play with vivax? I am used to always read vivax first because for me are 2 option with vivax first when i am mafia I have to get him out of the game as fast as possibole second is if i am town he is still the "easiest" read for me. If vivax is mafia he just posting random shit, jokes, memes, off the topic stuff and hating the government of austria if he is Town he actually trys to tell us his opinion, try to find scummy shit, beeing paranoid about chez but he is not in the game and hating the government of austria. For me he looks like Town (atm) you have any other scum reads? Source on the mafia meta read? Are you looking for the weakest players again like in your last mafia game? I’d go after you no? Why would I go after vivax? Answer the question please I just wanted to remind you you cannot make the same bs twice Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 10:19 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 08 2024 10:13 rsoultin wrote:
i mean the having icky vibes off az i can identify with but maybe your time would be better spent catching up if you're just throwing shade at oats because he was pushing you as mafia in an earlier game I am not pushing him as mafia(atm). i just wanted to remind him that some things should not be done twice Maybe I'm making something out of nothing, but these posts are at least worth looking into? Why would die_meatbaby, as town, warn someone not to do something that would give them away as mafia? There's this, which I think is at least worth a response.On June 09 2024 23:30 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 23:00 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 22:52 Trfel wrote:On June 09 2024 22:24 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 09 2024 21:36 Trfel wrote:
@AlphaZero, for what it's worth I wasn't trying to "lead" anything.
@marvellosity, I'd consider lowering sandroba for sure. Maybe Vivax too but he might be fine there (I'm probably just paranoid). And I honestly would put Koshi higher, which I know you don't want to hear.
Could be wrong, the one game I played with mafia!Koshi had the slight issue of me also being mafia so I didn't play, so idk what mafia!Koshi is like, but if I had to guess I don't think it would be this.
@Oatsmaster, why wouldn't the reverse apply? Like, why wouldn't mafia be happy lynching town!Kelsi3r and saving the town!scott31337 lynch for tomorrow? Because kel is an infinitely easier lynch tmr? You think so? I think scott31337 is a pretty easy lynch tomorrow (or at any point), but I could see that being wrong I suppose. Other than me and rsoultin, I don't think anyone was particularly vocal about not lynching scott31337?
@AlphaZero, I don't really have much to add. I tend to be right when I defend people suspected by most of the game, I think there was one time I was wrong maybe? But maybe you're right, I can stop, if scott31337 dies then so be it. Dmb wouldn't vote Scott It was literally in the post you last responded to me about I reckon dmb is not trying to solve the game and is scummy I try and i will even try more as soon as the people here getting activ. How the fuck should i find out who the fuck is mafia if half of the people not playing where is slam, sandro, rayn,..... guys come on pls write something here. This post is quite scummy as well.
I get the impression that die_meatbaby is trying to blend in. Even if you ignore the low activity/invovlement, I don't get the impression that she's looking for mafia. The classic paranoia isn't really there, she expressed some suspicions about AlphaZero day 1 but didn't really pursue them much.
Also, the soft defense of scott31337 (I'm not going to vote for scott31337 yet but maybe I will later kinda thing) seems really bad to me. It's heavily mafia motivated to save mislynches for the future and to leave possibilities open.
I also feel like she has been avoiding involvement. She always says "I'll post more soon, I'll be more active soon" and then hasn't. Right now, she's hiding under the excuse of not wanting to post during the night phase.
I know there isn't a ton there, but die_meatbaby hasn't given us much to work with. And the town tells I would expect are distinctly not there. The stuff that is there, points to die_meatbaby being mafia.
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On June 10 2024 08:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 08:38 Trfel wrote:On June 10 2024 08:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 10 2024 08:13 Trfel wrote:On June 10 2024 08:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 10 2024 08:05 Trfel wrote:On June 10 2024 08:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Vivax/DMB is argument is really bad looking for Trfel tbh. I'm very confused by this, I provide reasons to suspect them, then they clutter up the thread with nonsense, after which you say it makes me look bad? How does it make me look bad when my suspects are acting anti-town? I literally made them to clutter up the thread. How can you make that about them, just because "they did that"? I didnt see anything that makes either of them mafia, i thought it was tvt. Did you? I mean you did encourage them, but it's still their choice, no? I don't like trying to characterize arguments as TvT or whatever, I think it's very difficult to do accurately with little reward. Maybe a better approach is this: Ignore the whole argument thing, it's hard to make sense of and it doesn't matter. There are reasons to suspect both Vivax and die_meatbaby individually that I think are well worth exploring, and I would like to go back to discussing those reasons. I'm not sure both are mafia, or even that one is, but they're both in my top suspects, so I would like to focus on that please. In addition to the aforementioned reasons for Vivax, he's posted a lot, but I find his posts very uninspiring. I don't think there is anything he said that's particularly insightful, or anything he did that is particularly interesting. And he's had plenty of opportunity to do so. This is very subjective, so if you disagree that's fine, but I'd at least like a bit of evidence to back it up. Like, there are several, separate compelling reasons to lynch Vivax, I am not going to just let this slide. okay, and what about DMB? Don't have any super amazing reasons, but die_meatbaby also hasn't done anything that makes me think she is town. On June 09 2024 23:02 Trfel wrote:On June 09 2024 23:00 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 22:52 Trfel wrote:On June 09 2024 22:24 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 09 2024 21:36 Trfel wrote:
@AlphaZero, for what it's worth I wasn't trying to "lead" anything.
@marvellosity, I'd consider lowering sandroba for sure. Maybe Vivax too but he might be fine there (I'm probably just paranoid). And I honestly would put Koshi higher, which I know you don't want to hear.
Could be wrong, the one game I played with mafia!Koshi had the slight issue of me also being mafia so I didn't play, so idk what mafia!Koshi is like, but if I had to guess I don't think it would be this.
@Oatsmaster, why wouldn't the reverse apply? Like, why wouldn't mafia be happy lynching town!Kelsi3r and saving the town!scott31337 lynch for tomorrow? Because kel is an infinitely easier lynch tmr? You think so? I think scott31337 is a pretty easy lynch tomorrow (or at any point), but I could see that being wrong I suppose. Other than me and rsoultin, I don't think anyone was particularly vocal about not lynching scott31337?
@AlphaZero, I don't really have much to add. I tend to be right when I defend people suspected by most of the game, I think there was one time I was wrong maybe? But maybe you're right, I can stop, if scott31337 dies then so be it. Dmb wouldn't vote Scott It was literally in the post you last responded to me about I reckon dmb is not trying to solve the game and is scummy She said she wouldn't lynch scott31337 at this time but left the door wide, wide open for doing so in the future. So I wouldn't consider that a deterrent for future lynches. Yes, I agree that die_meatbaby could definitely be mafia. On June 08 2024 10:01 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 08 2024 09:57 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 08 2024 09:46 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 08 2024 09:36 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 08 2024 09:04 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 08 2024 08:17 AlphaZero wrote:
I’ll lynch vivax with you oats.
Vote:vivax Is first time you play with vivax? I am used to always read vivax first because for me are 2 option with vivax first when i am mafia I have to get him out of the game as fast as possibole second is if i am town he is still the "easiest" read for me. If vivax is mafia he just posting random shit, jokes, memes, off the topic stuff and hating the government of austria if he is Town he actually trys to tell us his opinion, try to find scummy shit, beeing paranoid about chez but he is not in the game and hating the government of austria. For me he looks like Town (atm) you have any other scum reads? Source on the mafia meta read? Are you looking for the weakest players again like in your last mafia game? I’d go after you no? Why would I go after vivax? Answer the question please I just wanted to remind you you cannot make the same bs twice On June 08 2024 10:19 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 08 2024 10:13 rsoultin wrote:
i mean the having icky vibes off az i can identify with but maybe your time would be better spent catching up if you're just throwing shade at oats because he was pushing you as mafia in an earlier game I am not pushing him as mafia(atm). i just wanted to remind him that some things should not be done twice Maybe I'm making something out of nothing, but these posts are at least worth looking into? Why would die_meatbaby, as town, warn someone not to do something that would give them away as mafia? There's this, which I think is at least worth a response. On June 09 2024 23:30 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 09 2024 23:00 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 22:52 Trfel wrote:On June 09 2024 22:24 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 09 2024 21:36 Trfel wrote:
@AlphaZero, for what it's worth I wasn't trying to "lead" anything.
@marvellosity, I'd consider lowering sandroba for sure. Maybe Vivax too but he might be fine there (I'm probably just paranoid). And I honestly would put Koshi higher, which I know you don't want to hear.
Could be wrong, the one game I played with mafia!Koshi had the slight issue of me also being mafia so I didn't play, so idk what mafia!Koshi is like, but if I had to guess I don't think it would be this.
@Oatsmaster, why wouldn't the reverse apply? Like, why wouldn't mafia be happy lynching town!Kelsi3r and saving the town!scott31337 lynch for tomorrow? Because kel is an infinitely easier lynch tmr? You think so? I think scott31337 is a pretty easy lynch tomorrow (or at any point), but I could see that being wrong I suppose. Other than me and rsoultin, I don't think anyone was particularly vocal about not lynching scott31337?
@AlphaZero, I don't really have much to add. I tend to be right when I defend people suspected by most of the game, I think there was one time I was wrong maybe? But maybe you're right, I can stop, if scott31337 dies then so be it. Dmb wouldn't vote Scott It was literally in the post you last responded to me about I reckon dmb is not trying to solve the game and is scummy I try and i will even try more as soon as the people here getting activ. How the fuck should i find out who the fuck is mafia if half of the people not playing where is slam, sandro, rayn,..... guys come on pls write something here. This post is quite scummy as well. I get the impression that die_meatbaby is trying to blend in. Even if you ignore the low activity/invovlement, I don't get the impression that she's looking for mafia. The classic paranoia isn't really there, she expressed some suspicions about AlphaZero day 1 but didn't really pursue them much. Also, the soft defense of scott31337 (I'm not going to vote for scott31337 yet but maybe I will later kinda thing) seems really bad to me. It's heavily mafia motivated to save mislynches for the future and to leave possibilities open. I also feel like she has been avoiding involvement. She always says "I'll post more soon, I'll be more active soon" and then hasn't. Right now, she's hiding under the excuse of not wanting to post during the night phase. I know there isn't a ton there, but die_meatbaby hasn't given us much to work with. And the town tells I would expect are distinctly not there. The stuff that is there, points to die_meatbaby being mafia. so both her and vivax mafia? I absolutely think it's a possibility. Or maybe just one of them. Or possibly neither tbh, but I think there are solid reasons to suspect them (individually). I'm not sure yet, which is why I'd like to discuss it in a more focused manner, and hopefully more time will help clear it up too.
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On June 10 2024 08:47 Vivax wrote:
I want a bit of pressure on Slam.
3 pages of fitler is bad Yes, I mostly agree with this.
Alakaslam is in the second tier of suspicious imo. That said, in his case I'm not sure if pressure would help?
I absolutely think pressure on sandroba, Vivax, or die_meatbaby will help make their alignment more clear. But I'm not sure if Alakaslam responds that way?
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On June 10 2024 08:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 08:47 AlphaZero wrote:
Rayn is Scott just really bad? Is that why he is getting a pass here? kind of but no, because last game he was really really good and made a case on mafia... You're talking about the Paint game?
Not to bash on scott31337 but I'm not sure that a Paint game, especially that one given how it played out, is worth looking into very much. It's just very, very dissimilar to this game.
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Hm, I kinda think AlphaZero might be mafia, not really sure why but I think we'd better lynch him.
+ Show Spoiler +Sorry, I couldn't resist
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On June 10 2024 08:59 scott31337 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 07:51 Trfel wrote:@Scott31337, can I ask about this part of your case in particular? Here he casts more doubt - I lynched my top scumread and that flipped town, so let's go for my #2 scumread!
Now from AZ's perspective if he's mafia (and I still believe he is) he would consider his scrumreads town (Unless they are terrible). Sandroba is a good example. I'm honestly not sure what you're trying to say here. Particularly the second sentence. The rest of the case I think I see what you're trying to say, but you lost me here. Trfel- So what I was trying to say is that from AZ's perspective, I'm just going in order of my scum list (In his eyes, his townlist) just to get mislynch #1, #2, #3, GG etc. But I'm going after who I believe has the best chance of flipping mafia. And the second part is that AZ considers his mafia team town (I think I used the wrong word there, not scumreads) to protect them. Sandroba is a good example of such. I think AlphaZero is saying that in general, when someone who is town gets one of their scumreads lynched and they flip town, it makes them think they might be wrong on other things too, if that makes sense?
As in, if I was wrong on something, maybe I screwed up on more than just that one thing. Or at least re-evaluate/reconsider.
Does Kelsi3r flipping town not give you the slightest bit of pause?
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The thing about raynpelikoneet is, he's just really really weird this game.
I don't think it's a town-weird or a mafia-weird, just a weird-weird, and it's really throwing me off.On June 10 2024 03:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 03:49 AlphaZero wrote:On June 10 2024 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 10 2024 03:44 AlphaZero wrote:
Just so we are clear for people like trfel and Marv.
When invited to give any reason at all for his biggest scum read of the game Scott didn’t answer and said some bs about the nk that makes no sense.
Then left the thread. He did this because there is no genuine thought process behind his reads. So he couldnt answer and deflected instead.
This is not a bad argument or lynch bait thing.
This is something that comes from mafia. aside from scott, do you think this has an impact for other people? because youre prolly gonna get shot if youre right. I Think you need to unravel the day one Lynch if you are town and I die. There was a very strange resistance to Scot’s lynch which felt like mafia agenda at work. Could be koshi, could be oats, trfel I’m not sure his play is soo sooo different this game. He is really active but not really scumhunting imo. Not an easy game. I dont think Oats is mafia. Trfel, maybe? But no? Trfel is making posts why i could be mafia, i dont think he could fake that as well as he is posting about me, if he was mafia. I think it's healthy suspicion tbh, one that he would not go into as mafia. rsoultin (koshi)... idk tbh, rsoultin looked really townie, koshi does not at all. possible? You can see now, how my opinion of the D1 events turned immediately into you and marv? I still don't know if i am right, or not, but like... it is weird as fuck to me that scott didn't get lynched. If he is mafia, then someone surely did something. If he is town, then idk why any of this matters.Currently i am on board with you of him being mafia. See the bolded. Raynpelikoneet goes into a huge argument with AlphaZero and marvellosity, saying that it's suspicious that they weren't able to get the lynch on their scumread, scott31337. However, raynpelikoneet also thinks scott31337 is town, and in the above quote he says that if scott31337 is town then marvellosity and AlphaZero not getting their lynch doesn't mean anything.On June 10 2024 02:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Or maybe scott is mafia and i end up looking like an idiot, since i honestly doubt either of marv / AZ would do that as mafia with him.
However it's easy to look youre "doing stuff" while actually you arent, when there is no mafia on the line of being lynched. Not sure if I am reading this post correctly but it comes off to me like raynpelikoneet kinda thinks scott31337 may be town. Also note that this post was made before the previously quoted post. After this raynpelikoneet's view on scott31337 is surprisingly ambiguous, so it's possible that he hasn't made up his mind yet?On June 10 2024 07:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:
i dont think scott is mafia btw. Finally ended up on this, several hours later.On June 10 2024 08:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 08:38 AlphaZero wrote:On June 10 2024 08:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:
AZ i dont think scott is mafia.
We can talk about that if you want to. Sure. Why is he not. His case didn’t even have a shred of thinking regarding my alignment. It was confirmation bias searching for a justification. The Sandro part was particularly egregious. Yes i think it was awful. I however think it was a case made by a townie. Seems to say that scott31337's case on AlphaZero is what made raynpelikoneet think scott31337 is town.
That said, my point is, why does raynpelikoneet focus so much into arguing with marvellosity and AlphaZero about how this can make them mafia when the whole thing is contingent on scott31337 being mafia, and raynpelikoneet is (at best) unsure about scott31337's alignment? Even with marvellosity and AlphaZero being in the thread and scott31337 not, that's an incredibly convoluted approach. I would absolutely expect someone with a town mindset to focus on scott31337's alignment, maybe mention the suspicion of the other two, but raynpelikoneet jumps way ahead in a very illogical manner.
Also, raynpelikoneet being suspicious of AlphaZero doesn't sit right with me. He presented a reason why AlphaZero could be mafia if scott31337 is mafia, but then when he concludes that scott31337 is town, he has other "reasons" to suspect AlphaZero. Like this:On June 10 2024 08:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 08:22 AlphaZero wrote:
Rayn why am I mafia?
Scott took all night to fail to point out it, maybe you can do better? I dont think youre necessarily mafia, i think youre either pressing right or wrong shit, on scott, and i think youre wrong. Does it make you mafia? No. It does increase the possibility of you being mafia imo, in case scott is not mafia. As for why you could be mafia, i dont know who you are, i dont know if you can make these posts as mafia as well as town. Similarly as you seem to be approaching to me. I already said i think youre okay, but well.. not okay for me. You will have to deal with it i guess. I actually agree with AlphaZero that this kind of thing is nonsense. It's not helpful or productive. Maybe I'm making something out of nothing here, but the timing of it all feels a bit forced to me, the way that raynpelikoneet has to back off on his suspicions of AlphaZero due to starting to townread scott31337, but then has new reasons out of nowhere, except they aren't actually reasons.
He's certainly posted a lot since returning to the thread, about nine pages worth in eight hours which is kinda insane, but I'm not sure what he's done? He's certainly been existing in the thread and interacting, but I am very unimpressed by his analysis, I don't think he's posting any thoughts that are particularly useful. Maybe a better way to put it is that he's asking a lot of questions but not actually contributing much of his own?
He investigated the idea of marvellosity and AlphaZero being mafia early on, but then largely dropped it.
Then he eventually decided that scott31337 is town.
And he doesn't have any other conclusions at all, and no investigation either really? For example, he asks why sandroba is mafia besides inactivity, then later says sandroba is worth considering. But he doesn't do anything about this. Just leaves it at a non-committal, who knows.
In summary, I guess:
1. Illogical thought process to suspect marvellosity and AlphaZero with reasoning contingent on scott31337's alignment, while not seeming interested in scott31337's alignment first
2. Extremely high activity and involvement without actually having useful thoughts, and coming to minimal conclusions
So yeah, upon review, I kinda do think it's a mafia-weird.
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Watch List
die_meatbaby: seemingly no drive to solve the game or contribute, constantly hiding behind excuses
Alakaslam: said marvellosity is mafia but then later said he is town, said scott31337 is mafia, and that's literally it
raynpelikoneet: seems to want to talk but doesn't want to figure anything out
sandroba: lack of activity/involvement
Vivax: no desire/interest in seeing his scumread (scott31337) lynched, instead talks about what scott31337 being town means or looking at other options
Maybe Watch List (but probably not)
scott31337
Oatsmaster
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EPT
