EPT[M][N] Sushi Mafia
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jeekaka
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On May 28 2020 17:11 Alakaslam wrote: Howdy smurf! Can you let me know who you are via PM? Thanks. Will decide a deadline that works for me and put it in the OP. I take that smurf is an alternative account of someone? I'm actually new to the forum, rayn just asked me to play as he wanted this to fill up and also maybe because I've been complaining there are no games in the forum I normally play :D So I'm familiar to forum mafia, but I have played mostly in Finnish. Short introduction to everyone else as well X) | ||
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Would be funny if Copcake and Jockmcplop were our mafia team. | ||
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Me neither lol. Vivax do you mean you rolled maf? :D | ||
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On June 02 2020 16:42 CopCake wrote: Wooooo, because I know the feeling of rolling mafia consecutive and then rolling town is fresh air, I said it. Recently of 4 games in 3 I have been mafia so being town here is like... freedom. Not to have to worry about mind games. Ofc there is a small chance he could say that as mafia but he just came up out of nowhere which makes me feel that a town jock is more likely to say that, he feels cheerful. It feels sincere. Now why are you like all "woooooooo why did cake say that"? I need to check if you haven't played recently BUT if you have you should know jock has been rolling mafia many times lately. I think he and vivax were in a team together last game. And then he was mafia in the game he made fun of HF with a gif. I think that tone is really easily faked. And you cannot come to thread like "can you guys believe I rolled scum again" so it's actually also very likely thing to fake. You so eagerly townreading him for it might be TMI or kinda subtly highlighting towniness of your own entry post where you stated you were town. So I don't really think you are mafia together, but seems like claiming town in the first posts works as counter psychology to me :D | ||
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On June 02 2020 17:46 CopCake wrote: I think mafia is more likely to try to look "Oh look I am working, I am trying to solve the game" and making a lot of posts without actually doing something. I understand where you and others are coming from, but for example, it feels different how you approach me and my read than the way trfl did. Trfl feels mafia while you feel more town like. In before "I am trying to pocket you". Why should I think you want to pocket me? | ||
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Cannot totally shake the feeling Copcakes townreads are slightly TMIsh, but having kinda cut read that Copcake/Zey are not W/W. | ||
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That when you enter the game by telling you are town it makes me question if you really are :D | ||
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On June 02 2020 23:32 Jockmcplop wrote: I think he was referring to the previous game when he rolled maf. For context, usually Vivax goes afk quickly as mafia but in the last game he posted alot and played well throughout the game, thus scuppering the easy meta read on him people were using. And yeah I kinda got this from his answer to rayn but thanks for the context! | ||
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On June 02 2020 23:36 Jockmcplop wrote: You should be questioning that regardless of my opening! Dunno if I really need to elaborate but I still might :D People don't really expect you to watch them in the eyes and lie, and scum telling they are town is kinda using that presumption in their advantage. Town does not need to do that and I would say I have seen scum just casually claim town more than actual townies. But I guess it's still not aligment indicative per se. | ||
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On June 03 2020 02:20 CopCake wrote: Because I said you look more town than him, some might find that pocketing specially since you were asking me things. Hmm yeah now that I checked it might been misinterpretation from my part, as I took it more addressed straight to me. I don't know if I can explain this, but it felt like you thinking I would suspect you of pocketing me would imply you were more sure of me being town than you should. But maybe suspecting someone of it is more of a thing here lol. Also felt bit off that you are so conscious about this. Like, should I think you want to pocket me??? :D This is a bit like thing rayn pointed out, like you react to things you are never been actually blamed for. I already told earlier why could Jock townread be too much info and why would a wolf wanna share that. And if someone's I have came to somewhat townread Jock myself also. Hope that explained a bit why it feels to me that you might know more than you should :D | ||
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I have somewhat similar problem with Zey, I usually just dont get her locig and my initial feelings often are that she's scum. Like here now I think I have totally opposite views of Trefl (like asking "what do you guys think of Copcaces townreads" could be scummy, if sniffing threadfeel before pushing Cake mislynch, but that rayn thing NAI or even townish). Soulread of Cake is a thing she does, that time stamp thing is being used to a different forum software. I don't see anything alarming about Zey, but nothing to really townread her either. @Vivax, did you elaborate your Trefl reads somewhere? | ||
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- I've learned Vivax is usually afk when maf (expect in his last game) - rolling mafia consecutive times is exhausting - Vivax does not really seem very inclined to answering questions here - I think Tictock has a good point about ShoCkeyy I was about to say that these two are certainly not mafia together, because Sho is voting Vivax, but when I checked that it's not actually the case. So now I'm wondering if this could be scum theatre for towncreds to Sho when Vivax is not up to an another top performance. | ||
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On June 03 2020 17:46 Jockmcplop wrote: Honestly I think its unlikely that shockeyy would fakevote a mafia buddy as his first post in the thread. They are both independently suspicious though. Yeah you are probably right and that's maybe a bit too straightforward theory, because I think that (if I'm not missing something) everyone else than Vivax and Shockeyy has at least tried to do something to solve :D Some other general thoughts: I think Jock has been helpful and made some good points. Also I think I'm somewhat in the same page with rayn (even though he is capable of puppet mastering me even if he's scum but this far I think it's genuine). And I liked Ticktocks takes as well. As I said earlier, I don't think Zey and Cake are w/w. It's maybe more an educated guess, but as Zey is a bit out of her comfort zone (and would be even more so if scum) it's hard to imagine that she would just come in hard defending scummate Cake and then they would start pushing Trefl together. There are things that pinged me about Cake, but I can also see where her takes on Jock, me and Trefl could come from in a sincere mindset. Actually I'm kinda drawn to the world where Zey and Cake are both town and right about Trefl :D | ||
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On June 03 2020 20:26 ShoCkeyy wrote: If I had to give reads, I think cop, tick, or trfel are possibly mafia because they were the fastest to paint me as mafia, and we all know mafia likes to use me as a scape goat  On June 03 2020 21:06 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am not sure if Trfel backing off from scumreading Cake is genuine. I was thinking Trfel continues making kinda easy scumreads and does not seem very committed to them. | ||
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On June 03 2020 20:43 Vivax wrote: Shockeyy's vote on me strikes me as townie already cause it's a vote where you don't know how serious it is and looks like he has fun with the game and looks lighthearted. Shockeyy isn't voting you though. | ||
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##vote: Trfel | ||
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And as I just said, Shock of these three has least potential to be scum with the others. Also I see some lynchbait potential in him, if thats correct use of the term  | ||
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On June 02 2020 08:28 Trfel wrote: Hi all  Long time no see!CopCake, I don't understand why you are townreading Jockmcplop so easily. Why couldn't he say that as mafia? On June 02 2020 11:27 Trfel wrote: Not really, things just tend to be slow at the start of the game. I'm sure it will pick up once there are more relevant things to discuss in the thread. Speaking of which, did you understand CopCake's townread of Jockmcplop? I mean I understand the words CopCake is saying, but I don't see why it makes Jockmcplop town at all. I see no reason he could not or would not say that as mafia. On June 02 2020 12:56 Trfel wrote: Hi raynpelikoneet I think you have made the worst entrance in the thread si far and therefore you are my top scumread. Do you have any thoughts about this? On June 03 2020 14:50 Trfel wrote: Frankly your filter is kinda awful, in fact you're my top scumread currently. You've posted so much but I have no idea what your reads are except for maybe a random, reason-less scumread of Vivax? So if Tictock is suspicious if you then that's fine by me! Tictock has been explaining his reads, I see no real reason to suspect him yet. This is basically what I was talking about earlier. | ||
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On June 04 2020 02:34 Jockmcplop wrote: RN the thing i'm most interested in is Vivax's scumread on copcake. Was it ever explained why Vivax said that copcake always scumreads him when he's town because i can't find it if it was. Seems like that just isn't true from the research rayn did. Like how did that just get dropped? Vivax told it was irrelevant XD | ||
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On June 04 2020 05:17 Jockmcplop wrote: Everyone except shockeyy is ok with vivax/trfel and shockeyy is my town read. Feels bad. I'm feeling maybe I've got day 1 very wrong. Well maybe also Vivax and Trfel aren't lol. But I know the feeling. | ||
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On June 04 2020 06:42 Tictock wrote: Humm actually reading and catching up, I dont like Trfel's re-entry into the game. Trfel, why is Vivax town? This actually makes me feel my vote was in the right place but still | ||
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On June 04 2020 06:42 Tictock wrote: Humm actually reading and catching up, I dont like Trfel's re-entry into the game. Trfel, why is Vivax town? On June 04 2020 06:42 Tictock wrote: Humm actually reading and catching up, I dont like Trfel's re-entry into the game. Trfel, why is Vivax town? | ||
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 I can see Vivax/Trfel world, I can see Jock/Trfel or even Shock/Trfel world where they want to save Vivax to be the next mislynch, and I can even see a distant rayn/Trfel world. In any case I want Trfel's head. | ||
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On June 04 2020 14:14 ShoCkeyy wrote: I honestly would prefer Vivax/Trfel to be the mafia team, I really don't want Jock to be mafia again :D Also why would I be teamed with Trfel if he's my top mafia read right now? Like I seriously think with N1 kill we'll have more than enough info to find mafia the mafia team. Mmm yeah that's not so likely. Jock's switch is easier to explain, it could just have been like they noticed they can actually lynch Cake and thought Jock had enough town cred to pull it off. With you it's probably too much effort to save a townie. You just have some weird takes like how ever makes Cake buddying Tictock him town :D Cake could be wrong. That said TicTock is prob my top townread right now. | ||
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Vivax (3): Jockmcplop, raynpelikoneet, CopCake Trfel (2): Zey, Jeekaka CopCake (2): Vivax, ShoCkeyy ShocCkey (1): TicTock So, you dont think Vivax is town. You and cake are both next in two votes, and you vote Cake soon after, so you definitely don't think she's town. On June 04 2020 05:42 Trfel wrote: Why are we lynching people who are town? So what on earth does this mean then? | ||
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On June 04 2020 15:47 Trfel wrote: I was half-joking, and did kinda think CopCake was town (though my mind quickly changed). I sometimes assume people are town until there is evidence to the contrary, as was the case here (after which I got to business). The post served its purpose of attracting attention and not lynching Vivax, though. Which is good thing because..? | ||
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On June 04 2020 21:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: Zey i have a question for you: You explicitly asked me about why i scumread Vivax. Why didnt you have any follow up after my answer? I mean you must think that my case is either right or wrong or bad enough for me to be mafia. You followed the rest of the day with the thought of Vivax still not being mafia, why didnt you try to convince me voting either trfel or tictock since you vlearly thought my case is not good? I'm actually also interested in hearing more about Zey, as my only reason to think she's town is Trfels scumminess really :D | ||
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Shock was very active looking for someone else to lynch. Zey stated she was ready to lynch TicTock over Vivax. I don't really think Zey had enough thread presence to actively push another lynch, but she might have been ready to jump into another wagon if there was possibility. (Also both Vivax and Zey had TicTock in their lynch pool.) Then there was Trfel. And then there was Jock, who decided to lynch Cake because "everybody" were happy about Vivax lynch. | ||
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I think Tictock and rayn are town. I'm a bit paranoid about rayn but if I'm wrong here so be it. At least now I'm not reasoning myself out of thinking he might be scum because something he did, but he just feels town to me. Also if rayn was mafia Tictock could as well be as I would be totally lost in here :D But I think I share a similar world view with these two, and to me Tictock EOD feels like town investigating and trying to find best or even least bad lynch option. I have said all I have about Trfel except actually want to add this thing: Vivax (3): Jockmcplop, raynpelikoneet, CopCake Trfel (2): Zey, Jeekaka CopCake (2): Vivax, ShoCkeyy ShocCkey (1): TicTock Trfel actually jumps into a wagon with his top scumread and does not seem to think there's anything fishy. And today he continues to suspect Shock like nothing ever happened. I don't like at all Vivax's statement that he's basically not gonna do anything today as he's fine with his POE. Shocks opinions are just weird and it really seems he's not paying attention. Like he literally accused Cake of scumreading Trfel for being afk, when Cake had said that's her main reason for not wanting to vote Trfel. I said yesterday that Sho is not very likely to be mafia with Vivax or Trfel, but actually that EOD changed my opinion a bit. Still that Shock's and Trfel's Cake push does not make actually any sense is Vivax is town. Unless... Cake was thinking switcing to Trfel, TicTock preferred Trfel over Vivax. This was at the bottom of my scum pair listing but moving it up actually :D This is maybe a bit of a soulread, but I think Zey is almost never mafia with Trfel. There's a small detail that makes me actually think she is just town. So I think our mafia team is one of the following: Vivax/Trfel Trfel/Shock . Vivax/Shock (as we have this too wolf to be wolf thing going, I'd find that Trfel town hero thing to be one if Vivax/Trfel w/w) . . . Vivax/Zey (if I'm wrong about Zey) Yeah and in theory Zey/Shock why not. | ||
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On June 05 2020 05:33 Zey wrote: Hmm, wasn't Cake getting cold feet before you even mentioned you were getting? Half an hour later Jock is dead. I just think subconsciously you probably would not start questioning someone who you know is not gonna be there to answer. | ||
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On June 06 2020 09:49 Trfel wrote: Jeekaka, I think you are probably town (you've raised points that are actually decent), but I highly disagree with this. I know before that as mafia I have posted large cases on people that I was night-killing at the deadline, to make the night kill less associated with me. I don't think this is a valid point at all and would encourage you to re-evaluate your read on Zey. I thought about it, as it could have been faked, but it is not a huge case, it's not even a case, it's just a question, it's barely noticeable. Self centered me just noticed it because I was very worried when you didn't mention me at all N1 and I was very much worried of being NK X) In our home forum you cannot post at night, but of course Zey could have still thought of it, or scum buddy could have adviced her. But in that case I think it could be more clearly formatted as Zey being suspicious of Jock. But I try not to put too much weight on this. | ||
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On June 06 2020 09:34 Trfel wrote: Oh, and who was it that accused me of having too low of an accuracy of scumreads? Yes I was wrong on CopCake, and for that I apologize, but being wrong in one read on Day 1 isn't that noteworthy honestly. Kinda annoyed at that reason to scumread me. Almost seems dumb enough I might OMGUS it. That was probably me :D But I was just joking about that town hero thing, because that actually would only make sense if Cake actually had been wolf, as even if Vivax is vanilla town too his flip would have made so much more sense as now everybody keeps suspecting him even more and he's apparently unmotivated because of it. | ||
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Mostly I just wonder about you and Vivax hard townreading each other. You yourself admit it's very reasonable to suspect you - what do you think about Vivax not suspecting you at all? | ||
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What are your thoughts of them in comparison to Vivax's thoughts you just quoted? | ||
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On June 06 2020 14:27 Trfel wrote: I don't want to dive deep into self-meta since I think self-meta is a very ridiculous thing. As in, typically it's too much to expect other people to fully understand/recognize/believe it. Vivax knows my play fairly well, he was actually my coach in my first mafia game here. He knows I've had my share of effortful and lazy games. Furthermore I don't think he's calling me town, I believe he's more saying I'm null, which is (imo) a reasonable stance. See here (bold):I'm reading Vivax more town than he's reading me. But both of us have other targets we feel are better lynches, to me that seems fine. Maybe Vivax could clarify this himself? Because to me it really seems he does not think you're null. D1 he townreads you, N1 he says he does not have any reason to think his former townreads are scum, he even calls you a town hero. Re-checking you does not shift him either way. (But ok maybe you are right, more than townreading you he's probably just decided to stick to his PoE and not ever look anywhere else.) | ||
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On June 06 2020 14:53 Trfel wrote: Have you re-evaluated Tictock lately? What do you think of the concerns Vivax and I have expressed about him? I am honestly having great difficulties imagining world where both you and Vivax are town, and it's just not very likely he's scum with either of you. Seeing him paired to Shock is also difficult. I admit Zey/Tictock is possibility here, but honestly Zey just not getting Tictock and Tt wondering why Zey keeps going on about it seems genuine to me, because I've been down that road with Zey too XD And for me Tictock's response to Vivax's accusations seems truthful and matches my read of him. | ||
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And what comes to Vivax. D1 he dodged questions about his early townreads, his case on Cake was like super bad, and after almost lynched he basically told he's not gonna cooperate at all. Even you tell me his play fits his usual scum meta. It walks like a duck, it quacks like a duck, but yeah most likely it's not a duck, or wtf?????? | ||
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@Shock could you point out where Cake scumreads Trfel for being afk? | ||
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@Zey can you give me some kind of reads list to show where you are at the game, except in the Trfel/Tictock world. | ||
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I don't know if that was any help. Like town!Zey can be super active, but I think struggling with the language (and maybe real life lol) is the biggest reason she's not now. When scum, Zey seems to be quite neutral towards her scum buddies, and I would say quite neutral in general. Here she seems to have strong opinions where she has them and she's not afraid to question or accuse people. But I have to say that Zey has been scum like three years ago and even her town meta has changed since :D | ||
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On June 06 2020 21:25 Vivax wrote: So according to you when I roll mafia all I've got to do is ask questions and if a townie doesn't answer it because he doesn't see it or thinks it's not his top priority, I got myself a mislynch? There are reasons for townies to not answer to something immediately. That's to say, do you really think that not answering things always makes people mafia? Where did I ever say so? That interaction felt scummy at the time and my gut feeling was he just must be scum, but in case you haven't noticed I'm already out of the tunnel :----D But I have to say that when I got the answer it made him look even worse. | ||
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Although that rayns "I wish I wash scum with Zey" starts to haunt me too. + feels Batman | ||
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Yeah they are lol I'm kinda lost and I honestly don't know what to think rn :D I had thought about rayn/Zey before you mentioned it, and thought about more when you did, I just didn't have any reason to scumread either of them at that point. Aaaand I had a feeling that if Zey had Finnish speaking teammate her game might look different. But that's a thing you shouldn't maybe put too much weight on. (I actually thought about rayn/Tictock even but then I was like ok let the better team win lol XD) Your D1-D2 were still scummy af. You and Shock have still decent changes of winning with nice Tictock or Zey mislynch set up. Even you and Zey could just go for Tic lynch now. But honestly I see it more likely that scum!rayn would just vote and go afk when everything is going according to his plans than town!rayn just leaving the came like that. So yeah, I think you and rayn are the most scummiest here right now :D And you could even be scum together because I cannot reason it like well why would anyone ever vote his scum buddy since D1 because thats the thing I do and then scum!rayn wins lol :D | ||
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On June 07 2020 14:20 ShoCkeyy wrote: Do you have any better reasons to vote vivax jee? I'm still re-evaluating the game. Though I'm having a groundhog night here wondering why I didn't switch to Vivax XD But if you are Vivax's scum mate that would not have been enough anyways. But to be honest Vivax flip either way I don't know if Trfel could have convinced me of his towniness | ||
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Like I should really had considered more why N1 kill was not me or rayn :D But Jock happening to be doc distracted me from it so I just thought it was because mafia was avoiding protection. | ||
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On June 04 2020 02:37 Vivax wrote: Fuck you rayn On June 04 2020 23:27 Jockmcplop wrote: Obviously you've never been scum with vivax  Just leaving this here XD Btw I don't really know how serious I'm with this case. | ||
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On June 07 2020 20:09 raynpelikoneet wrote: What has happened that every time Vivax doesn't flip after all you change your top scum to something that it wasn't before? Well since before you left the thread it had been quite obvious it was gonna be Trfel flip. | ||
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On June 08 2020 01:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: jeekaka do you think zey "has fun" at mafia games as town? Oh wow, that's actually quite a difficult question :D She enjoys solving for sure but I wouldn't ever imagine her posting like Sho and I think she is more... maybe reasonable? than me for example. | ||
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But there are some town!Zey sparks in here, like her interaction with Tictock. Like Zey doesn't get what Tick means, so she keeps pushing it, because she wants to understand. I think it's just a huge miscommunication and it's basically deja vu of some of my old t/t interaction with Zey when I was scumreading her hard just because I just could not understand why she kept hammering so stupid things :D But to be honest I might also be a bit biased because of that experience. | ||
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On June 08 2020 01:43 Vivax wrote: To describe it better. While zeys posts are neat and so to say politically correct, they lack the kind of townie 'being erratic'-ness. It's more like zey approaches the game with an attitude where she's doing her homework diligently, but what gives her away is that while appearing very diligent she doesn't seem to have a clear place her head is at. It's more like whenever she finds something worth mentioning, she mentions it, but for the sake of mentioning it. I checked out some Zeys old scum games yesterday and this is pretty much how you could describe it. But I don't think Zey's like that now, she rather came up with strong opinions since D1. | ||
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Zey is another who's lynch seems to possibility to almost everyone, maybe even more preferred than TT. rayn seems to be the likeliest pairing. As I said I kinda do townread Zey but it's really weak reasoning Shock is possible to pair to almost anyone, TicTock least likely though. Would be a very good pairing to Vivax indeed. And actually that TT/rayn narrative could suggest Zey team. That Vivax/rayn interaction seemed quite genuine and actually rayn came out looking worse, so do the tides change. But honestly I would not even wonder if they were capable of that good scum theatre XD So maybe: Vivax/Shock rayn/Zey rayn/Shock Shock/Zey rayn/Tictock (And of course rayn/Vivax this is my One True Pairing as fanficcers call it) BUT at this point it is all just hypothetical because it's enough that just one townie is fooled to vote wrong and mafia can hammer : P | ||
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You seemed a bit paranoid with that planting thoughts thing :D | ||
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PoE or something concrete? | ||
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On June 08 2020 03:45 raynpelikoneet wrote: He actually thinks i am mafia he is not just saying that to stay alive if he is town or faking it if he is mafia. lol ok. I'm so not used to this talking by night thing :D | ||
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Tbh to me that progression made sense at the time. Trfels posts made me look more closely at Sho and Zey too. Unless he's mafia with Vivax there was really no reason to start backing up from "Trfel/Vivax and Vivax can still be scum even if Trfels is not" world. | ||
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jeekaka
Finland111 Posts
Yeah I guess I could be wrong there, that's possible thing to do fake that second guessing. That's why when making that list I kinda tried to look past my "reads" and make it based on interactions. | ||
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jeekaka
Finland111 Posts
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jeekaka
Finland111 Posts
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jeekaka
Finland111 Posts
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jeekaka
Finland111 Posts
But yeah I probably would have 100% ended up voting for Vivax last day just because how he acted. Like lol you really decided to make it super easy for mafia. I think that for me hardest part was people making townreads like "he could be scum but no he's just town here", I get that it makes sense if you have played a lot together, but for a newcomer that just feels too odd : P And mafia is a team game, losing Jock and Cake in the beginning really broke down my town core when I was also really wrong about Tictock : ( And sorry you feel the way you do Vivax. rayn has honestly fooled me since our first game together lol so it's never had anything to do with us being friends. Here I was even pocketed less than usual because I start to know I have to be really cautious in townreading him :D | ||
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jeekaka
Finland111 Posts
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