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On March 27 2020 12:47 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2020 11:54 Holyflare wrote:On March 27 2020 10:38 ShoCkeyy wrote:On March 27 2020 10:14 Holyflare wrote:On March 27 2020 10:04 ShoCkeyy wrote:On March 27 2020 09:34 Holyflare wrote:On March 27 2020 09:32 ShoCkeyy wrote:On March 27 2020 09:14 Holyflare wrote:
Trfel not voting Kelsier is probably the most suspicious thing in the game. Agrees with my wall of text, piles on with more reasons and doesn't vote. I also agree with Palmar that Shockeyy looks more and more like mafia. At least his reaction to Palmar saying something looked pretty bad and not in line with what I'd expect from him.
I think the reasoning that there's mafia between Trfel/Palmar/HF from Shockeyy doesn't make the slightest bit of sense. He's saying that two people agree with the case but also that I might be mafia. There aren't three mafia, it was pointed out to him and instead of re-evaluating his stance he doubled down on this false line of narrative. I never said there was three mafia? I know there's only two this game, I read the first post nah mean? I'm just saying that there's a possibility from those three people there's mafia. Ok, why exactly do you think I am/was mafia to begin with? Please just explain it in 3 short bullet points or sentences. 1. You claim you made a case vs Sentinel, but it was barely a case, then instantly swap to KelsierSC for saying your case blows and him voting for you? 2. You're telling people how mafia should be played yet most of us here have played together already for quite some time. 3. I've played with you on the mafia team before, and that post screams end of game posting style from our game together. 1. He voted for me after I made the case on him?? I also didn't only vote him for saying my case blows?? That's literally none of what I write about in my actual case on Kelsier?????? 2. Yet people still don't understand it. 3. Fine. Point 1 is based on memory, but I recall him saying your case on Sentinel blows, then you went off on Kelsier with your case, then voted for him. But what part of my case relies on the premise that I am attacking Kelsier for saying my Sentinel case blows? Ok here we gooooo..... Show nested quote +On March 26 2020 12:49 Holyflare wrote:
If you are town, Sentinel, you should be voting for Kelsier because he would be confirmed mafia. You literally claimed Kelsier would be confirmed mafia here, Kelsier last posts during this time were about him going to work, and about your other case against Sentinel blowing. You didn't really have reasoning here to think he was mafia just yet. His beginning posts which were much literally read as town to me. https://tl.net/forum/mafia/557789-emergency-quarantine-mafia?page=11On this page you decided to jump back to Sentinel Show nested quote +On March 26 2020 13:38 Holyflare wrote:
It is not about what I think. It's about what you think. You think it's strong or you do not, you jump on it or do not. That does not bother me. I put my thoughts in the thread for people to see and call out things that should be called out. You are effectively defending Sentinel playing atrociously and even going so far as self-voting when called out to do what? Vote me and say you don't like the way I'm playing right now?
There are three fundamental questions that you need to answer now, Rels:
Do you agree or disagree with the premise that Sentinel has played sub-optimally, flown under the radar and was just not funny?
When I applied pressure to Sentinel and voted him and he self-voted, did he perpetuate the case on him even further or react helpfully?
When Sentinel reacted poorly to pressure did I look worse or better? We actually care what you think, if you're actually town, we should care about what you think. Then directly after this post, you make that huge "case" against Kelsier which literally had almost his only posts. You were flip floppy here between either or trying to get a wagon going. Kelsier seemed like an easier lynch at this point because two players also joined, so let's completely forget about your first push.
I don't know what point you're trying to raise to be honest. Do you think that when I created the case on Kelsier those points magically jumped out to me while I was making it or do you think I already had a pre-determined set of points that I wanted to raise in the thread?
Trfel asked me about that first quote here:
On March 26 2020 15:39 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2020 15:10 Trfel wrote:
Holyflare's points on KelsierSC make sense to me. I also don't understand why KelsierSC thinks LightningStrike is town after repeatedly saying all of his reads are bad. Feels really arbitrary.
However I also don't understand why Holyflare calls out [UoN]Sentinel specifically for not scumreading KelsierSC when he later says that [UoN]Sentinel's alignment doesn't affect his case on KelsierSC? I'm very confused by this. It's not too difficult to understand. I still think the points on Sentinel are apt, he's done nothing but flounder in the thread. What does that make his alignment? Pretty undertermined at this point in truth, unfortunately. Psychologically, and rather egotistically, players are more drawn to seeing their name typed in the thread and reacting to those posts. If you just acknowledge the basic tenets of a mafia player (as I outlined) and extrapolate that all townies should be looking out for that behaviour specifically (because really, that's how you find mafia in every game) then Sentinel should have acknowledged Kelsier's stances on himself. If Sentinel is town, then he should see Kelsier say that the lynch on him is bad but then totally 180 on himself and meekly support it as the best lynch. That is a bad look for Kelsier, if Sentinel is town, because he is lynch bait and Kelsier is jumping on him. Why specifically did I call out Sentinel for it? Mostly for the above, a bit for reaction fishing from other people and also a tad in hopes Kelsier would react (although I think he might of gone to sleep at this point). Show nested quote +On March 26 2020 12:57 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On March 26 2020 12:49 Holyflare wrote:
If you are town, Sentinel, you should be voting for Kelsier because he would be confirmed mafia. For saying the wagon on me is bleh? I think it's too early in the game for that to be a scum read Sentinel doesn't really understand why I said it so that leaves me with either: Sentinel is not critically thinking about the game in any way, shape or form as a townie. OR Sentinel is mafia and doesn't subconsciously put together the things that naturally come to a townie. I'm hesitant to say it's the latter but we'll see. Kelsier is a great vote at least.
I had already determined that Kelsier was mafia and wanted to test the waters with Sentinel some more to see if they were either mafia together or if there was a chance Sentinel could be town. It was entirely inconclusive but that's neither here nor there.
I also didn't "jump back to Sentinel", I was questioning (and answering at some point) Rels' questions. You can see how I'm trying to reach a conclusion on RELS (not Sentinel) because I am asking Rels questions in relation to the events. So, no, I didn't become undecided between the two, since none of these questions relate to MY read on Sentinel in the slightest, rather Rels' read progression on me and Sentinel.
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It's really quite clear, there is a guy that has never had a problem with me in any previous game suddenly spouting ad hominem attacks about how my playstyle killed the forum and how he won't respond to any case against him and won't play until I'm out of the game despite never saying it has been a problem in any game I've ever played with him.
Let's make that really simple:
If I am mafia, it's my job to simply lynch TOWN Kelsier, it's part and parcel that I would create a narrative to lynch him or drown him out with a wall of text. Why would it be a game breaking problem that I created a case on him?
If I am town and Kelsier is town, he has never expressed any hesitance about my playstyle ever before, I could be wrong and he could just ignore it and hunt for mafia. I didn't push that case against him just in case he was feeling bad and Palmar etc gave him many outs to come back repeatedly for a good 12+ hours and he did nothing with it.
If I am town and Kelsier is mafia, he has to create a narrative and excuses to not play, deflect from the case and react to the pressure. He KNOWS that a town Holyflare is a bully (has any of my behaviour this game been bullyish? - look at my filter to find evidence that he knows I make cases as town) and he reacts badly.
The only thing that makes sense is the bolded since, like my case said, he has the perfect narrative and his mafia style is to "deconstruct" with the perfect information rather than construct cases and direction to the thread flow.
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On March 27 2020 13:01 Rels wrote:
HF do you have a read on Chez?
Not a clue.
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I went back and read Trfel's last game and it feels a lot more free flowing and conversationally asking questions in paragraphs than I'm seeing here. Don't know if it means anything but it's definitely a different playstyle at least. This seems more like state facts, no intrigue?
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I guess it doesn't help that the two people he likes for mafia are afkers right now so that might be cause for it. Trfel, I'd appreciate you dropping a vote at least as a commitment thing, there's literally nothing stopping you changing it later.
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On March 27 2020 13:27 Rels wrote:
on this part TBH I don't understand you or GB. I don't see how him not voting early makes him scummy.
I didn't say it did necessarily but why even have hesitance? It's not like your vote can't move once you have placed it and an added vote count creates pressure to the intended person you are voting, otherwise what's the pressure at all?
If he agrees with my case, had further points to add to it about Kelsier's stance on LS then it's kind of strange suddenly to NOT be certain about where to place your vote and to be suddenly "conflicted" that Palmar, his other new scum read, is also voting Kelsier?
It's just a line of text in a vote thread, what's the big deal about not being sure? It creates pressure and shows your INTENTION throughout the game to give players more information about where your head was at at any given time.
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Literally the point of any townie is that you have ONE power and that's the power to vote.
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You can't possibly see any situation where Kelsier is mafia??? What are his strong points in his filter?
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Also why do you keep asking me questions or giving statements for reasons I'm mafia but not interacting with me about my explanations?
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Why on earth would I find it difficult to talk about my case??
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On March 28 2020 00:51 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2020 00:47 Rels wrote:On March 28 2020 00:29 GlowingBear wrote:
HF's case is bad and you all should know it.
I have been trying to have a conversation with him but he refuses to. When I attacked his case, he simply ignored it. Because he knows his case isn't good.
This is Mafia Holyflare 100%. He is selective, he is boring, he acts like an emotional bitch. He just wants to convince people Kelsier is Mafia instead of trying to actually trying to sort everyone out.
You can win this game by killing him. If not, it will be another game where HF is glaringly Mafia but people refuses to believe
##Unvote
##Vote: Holyflare HF is always difficult to read, but TBH this game I don't see what you see. He seems pretty reasonnable to me, I don't see him hiding behind emotional outbursts like you said? I like how he attacked me when I challenged him, just enough to see my mindset, but not overly aggressively He spent a page saying that these forums were dying because people weren't discussing his case. This was unwarranted. When I start discussing his case, he ignores. Even after I asked him to talk about my posts. He focused on what I've posted on Trfel. I don't like that people aren't discussing my case (FORUM IS DYING FOR THIS) VS I don't really want to discuss my case (I maybe killing this forum) Holyflare is selective as Mafia. He decides to dismiss or ignore things he finds difficult to discuss and will not fit his agenda.Rels, I'm telling you, I'm 100% sure he is Mafia
How bad is this sentence. Jesus.
Holyflare won't talk about his case with me because as mafia he likes to dismiss or ignore things that don't fit his agenda.
My agenda being pushing my Kelsier case?
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I willfully ignore posts that I don't agree with, yes.
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I honestly just don't care GB.
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I was painting Yamato's cat, I don't have to be invested in anything lol. Much more thrilling than this snooze fest.
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Just because you pay lip service to my whining 12 hours later doesn't mean I have to do the same to you.
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There's a path of lesser resitance. I think your post on my case was a terrible response. Not terrible as in you're mafia just a really bad take but I have the wherewithal to know that even discussing it with you is a waste of time because you devalued it to differing of opinions and opinions don't usually change. So I didn't even comment on it. Soz.
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So I spent my time commenting on something better, like the Trfel wagon.
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I could alternatively do neither 
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On March 28 2020 01:15 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I responded to you HF, thoughts on my responses? Or you going to ignore it?
I don't know what I'm supposed to respond to. You're just making assumptions that aren't true. In your world for some reason I have hatched a plan to call Kelsier mafia, implicate Sentinel in it and then somehow feel pressured into making a case on Kelsier out of thin air that's just a list of his posts.
When in reality I had already made the case on Kelsier in my head, tried to get a read on Sentinel from it and then just outlined the case when I actually was in the thread and had spare time in between asking Rels questions. The case is almost certainly not just a list of his posts either.
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My case isn't pivotal to lynching Kelsier, nor do I really think Kelsier should be the lynch over Trfel. I specifically whined that nobody commented on it because I wrote a lot of words and people did shit all with it.
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EPT
