On July 24 2019 02:04 NoSmurfHere wrote: Personally to me your random insane beginning to the game is more typical of town rayn but meh, i have no read at the moment.
can you elaborate more onto this, especially the insane part?
Well what you've done so far:
Failed to understand hf's post and scumread him for it Went back on this when you realized. Failed to understand eywa's sarcastic post. Scumread koshi off a single post Said you want to lynch one of the roughly 8 people who hadn't posted and ignored the rest. Failed to understand my post above.
Seems like typical rayn to me lol. Completely mad.
Can you clearly explain to me why i SHOULD have immediately understood HF's post? Can you clearly explain to me why i SHOULD have immediately understood Eywa's post? What does my read on Koshi have to do with anything? You never state if you agree or disagree with my reasoning. Yeah i have my reasons to think you are mafia. Bugs is from Canada i think and you are "afraid to post" when you are mafia. I scumread you because you are euro and bugs can be afk (reasonably assumed because he is not afraid to post even as mafia), if you don't get hold of your NA hydra partner it's an aasumption that's why you don't post during EU hours while you usually post a lot.
I don't think i failed to understand your post above.
I have some thoughts, but first Rayn can you explain this and what you mean by this? I still don't understand why you think hydra is scum.
On July 24 2019 17:33 Koshi wrote: We paid our honours 10 seconds apart from each other Pandain! Are you town too?
Still hits me hard
My activity today is going to be really low, I apologize. I'm not going to be final on Rayn yet obviously, but the hydra has been far from inactive this game and the scumread on jock because "He's afraid to post" is bad for two reasons: 1. He's been posting a lot 2. He's doing a scumread meta based on his one scum game that was his first game on this site about five months ago or so.
I think it's just really lazy and weak arguments and I don't know how he actually believes them.
Your case on Rayn is the only good case I've seen so far and I agree with it. I also would add that I thought it was weird as hell he latched on to scumreading you when all you did was vote coagulation (as if that's a tell in either direction).
I also don't feel compelled to respond to people who write things like "haven't read his posts but I think he's scum" and "him making great points makes him mafia"
On July 24 2019 20:20 Pandain wrote: Your case on Rayn is the only good case I've seen so far and I agree with it. I also would add that I thought it was weird as hell he latched on to scumreading you when all you did was vote coagulation (as if that's a tell in either direction).
I also don't feel compelled to respond to people who write things like "haven't read his posts but I think he's scum" and "him making great points makes him mafia"
What do you think of mz then?
I think he's scummy and would much rather he be the counter lynch rather than Jock/Bugs (remind me again why anyone is voting for them?
He has a really bad argument on you (something about muddying waters? don't really get it) and then has basically a list post later on.
On July 26 2019 19:49 Holyflare wrote: I scum read pandain because he overzealously town read me and slam and it looks really bad among other things. I'll explain later.
I'm just popping in for the tiniest amount of time but this is 100% not what happened and you should reread my post on the matter.
I said you seem town or at least am playing pro town. Maybe the emphasis should have been on the playing pro town because.
I mean I don't know how anyone can really have an opinion on me one way or the other. I'm essentially nill. I've had no time for anything extra at all the past three days, and only time i posted was sporadically at work when things opened up. Not a bad reason to kill me (inactivity) i guess
oops didn't even finish my second sentence. this is how busy i am.
I don't have a real read on anyone anymore especially since I haven't read anything since later half of day 1. I'm gonna filter dive tonight and try to force in a couple hours.
Jock and HF seem fine so far. I'll admit I only read the first half of Jock/Bugs filter but they seemed town with their effort, responses, critical thinking, etc...
Don't like Slam's filter. Mainly for two reasons.
1. He completely lies/misrepresents what happened to Rayn day 1
On July 25 2019 02:49 Alakaslam wrote: From the look of things we lose Rayn.
Not good. He is a strong player.
Rayn when you return please just make cases in last bit don’t waste too much time on defense. There comes a point where people won’t change their minds, period.
Anyway, so people can make associations later:
My reason for believing Rayn to be town are mostly on meta. The case against him is basically that he is anti town because he is able to get angry. And not understand sarcasm. Basically.
Bad case. My reasons for scumreading the smurf is trying to shut me down, and a few other things but those are wifom. Not enough to vote on.
I vote him to save Rayn.
Absolutely terrible post. This was not at all the reason for voting Rayn at all. I know townie's can misunderstand stuff sometimes but Slam was active and responding to people the entire thread, I find it hard to believe he actually misread the dozens of actual posts on why Rayn could have been scum. It's more likely he's just TMI knowing rayn's alignment and not really reading those cases.
2. His vote on me
He's voting me because I'm "utterly forgetable" and literally no other reason. + Show Spoiler +
On July 26 2019 07:02 Eywa- wrote: Pandain is uderly forgettable, so it could be him.
Yup this is why he got my vote as well.
HF is a tough catch and I don’t like lynching him early because after about day 1 or sometimes 2 he is one of the most reliable towns who can carry a comeback.
On July 26 2019 07:15 Koshi wrote: Slam. Didnt we both thibk Pandain was town during the night? I'll follow your lead, it's just weird. 😁
Yes, but I was gut feeling that. In the context of HF filter I am more and more thinking Hf actually but Pandain was too damn forgettable.
Meanwhile, he actually scumreads HF and Chezinu but doesn't vote for them , HF for some bullshit "He's a vet" reason and Chezinu...for no reason. + Show Spoiler +
On July 26 2019 06:56 Alakaslam wrote: In all of HF, the confident active poster’s whopping 1.5 pages of filter, he seems to give the impression that scum outnumber the town roughly 3:1
Hell we might even be able to reverse POE with that
I’m actually totally down with both HF or Pandain after reading HF.
On July 26 2019 07:11 Tubesock wrote: FYI Slam often says he needs to die so town isn’t stuck with him lategame as he knows people can’t read him.
Secondly, saying both HF and Pandain may not be mafia probably has more to do with the reality that scumreads are often wrong. Not a lot of people have the same confidence that Eywa- was showing.
Do you actually have a preference right now between HF and Pandain or is everyone just gonna say they think they meet good lynches and then explain nothing?
I’d give it about 24 hours personally before I start considering killing either of them but I agree on principle that HF & Pandain are not bad leads, especially if all of Coag & FF & Chezinu are town (or even two out of three, which is fairly likely)
I want to see more opinions on this list of players:
FF Coag Chezinu HF Pandain
As at least with slam the opinions are already fairly polarized. In my case it’s just a conditional read.
-wherebugsgo
My way of reading HF is essentially he’s mafia until he proves himself town by doing something that makes life for mafia!HF harder for zero reason. But it requires time and I don’t mind giving him days because I know he’s busy. I also am not that afraid of a mafia HF running around though. He gets a lot of heat every game. Except this one, which to me is interesting.
My preference is Pandain (between him and HF). Although I still think you’re mafia but I’m willing to watch you work.
I personally am not giving HF much heat because
1. I read him correctly day 1 for two games in a row then started becoming paranoid when he did jack shit into terrible fake claim in the first game, so I led a wagon that killed him. Then he tunneled someone I thought was obvious town (and got him killed) in the second game and fake claimed again?? So HF’s play is erratic enough that I have no confidence in being able to read him properly atm.
2. He caught on the same thing I did with slam @ EoD
3. Engaging with HF is an easy way to pollute the thread.
As for Pandain, I’ve played with him twice (?) recently and by this point in the game he’s ordinarily posted a lot more, and everyone has already jumped on him to kill him, but I think I can read him well, especially when in that first game we played I was essentially the only person who correctly and confidently believed he was town.
This game he hasn’t done anything to indicate either alignment but the game in general is very slow.
What do you think of Coag and FF then?
-wherebugsgo
This excellently states why I am loth to lynch HF early even if he is my top scumread, which at the moment he is.
WNG/Jock either of you want to read his filter? It’s Hf but it is also short.
"HF is my top scumread" while he's voting me, rofl
On July 26 2019 13:28 Fecalfeast wrote: I'm gonna stop spamming the thread so ppl can catch up if anyone wants me to respond to anything I will but I'll try not to comment on every new post for a while
Oh god this made me feel so guilty. Sorry.... tried to consolidate a bit.
On July 26 2019 14:20 NoSmurfHere wrote:
On July 26 2019 14:17 Alakaslam wrote:
On July 26 2019 12:03 NoSmurfHere wrote:
On July 26 2019 11:34 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On July 25 2019 07:55 NoSmurfHere wrote: [quote]
I want to hear what others think of this post as it sticks out quite a lot especially in light of rayn’s flip.
The good news is that tomorrow morning we have a confirmed townie, so if you are rayn’s partner please do not claim until then.
I also want to hear from you, HF. For everyone else my assignment to you is to tell me your read of HF at this very moment.
Ok I don't like this post from slam at all. The whole part about "making associates later" reeks like TMI and this post is basically slam's way of distancing himself from the lynch so that he's on the right side of the vote that he knows will flip town. Aside from that, he literally admits his reasons for voting the hydra are terrible but he's saving rayn, I view this as scummy since it's hard for me to believe someone organically comes up with a townread so strong on D1 that they're willing to vote for someone else they don't think is scum in order to save them.
On July 25 2019 08:51 Tubesock wrote: I townreading FF and Alakaslam. I also townread Coagulation but it's softer.
Yeah Bugs I’ll scumread you for shutting down a player for posting 25 times in a row when it’s a very slow game. It wasn’t like anyone else was around, and You should know that Slam isn’t exactly a high post count player, so shutting him down hurts town. I doubt it took you anymore time to read those 25 posts than it would have if it was all in one.
I think the shade towards FF and Meap post flip are scummy.
Alright so I'm still leaning scum on FF, I think that the hydra makes a decent point here
I think the TMI argument on slam is actually very strong, and I have some meta reasons as well that I can go over if anyone cares to but I'm really interested as to where you're getting this townread from, could you elaborate more on that?
I disagree with the hydra scum read but coag is also a soft townread for me.
On July 25 2019 12:24 Vivax wrote: Looks like I forgot to unvote NSH and vote anything else yesterday really..
I think we can all agree that after that mislynch I don't really have to feel arsed to play. He was rather obvious town.
My advice is that you look into HF and pandain.
Was really hoping from more than this from you vivax, picking lurkers as your suspects is weaksauce.
On July 25 2019 17:30 Koshi wrote: [quote] This guy is town most likely. Going so hard against the consensus. Must be thinking aboit the game.
Koshi and Tube are definitely my strongest townreads.
On July 26 2019 06:47 Alakaslam wrote: What a short read.
He suspected Pandain and HF mostly. If he is killed this early, I tend to think he was on the right track.
See subsequent vote in vote thread. If folks want a counter wagon, it should be me I think so that my statements can warrant a reread when I am gone.
Because then y’all will realize: 1. I was town, and knew Rayn was too 2. That I was playing pretty carefully and pretty attentively 3. That though I couldn’t explain why, I was right on Rayn and am semi- likely to be right on other reads by EOD D2.
If Hf vs Pandain well idk I somehow feel they aren’t BOTH scum.
I think what I've highlighted red here sums up parts of my meta read on slam. Based on my memory, slam is absolutely not playing his usual self and he is aware of it and has tried to emulate that at times but it feels artificial. He is much too serious and, in his own words, careful compared to what town slam does.
On July 26 2019 07:09 Koshi wrote: 0% chance slam is mafia. If you think so you shoot up in my mafia list so high kites would be jealous.
On July 26 2019 07:10 Koshi wrote: I'll sheep slam even though I dont think Pandain is the best kill. But I dont know who is.
Ok you and Tube agreeing on this is enough to give me pause but I really would like to know what you think of some of the points I've brought up earlier in this post. I'm not going to just sheep either of you without some decent reasoning behind your thought process.
Alright I'm caught up and this is where I'm at. I think the TMI evidence, along with the meta/gut read I've got on slam is the strongest I've got right now. Going to go ahead and vote for him. FF is probably my second strongest read with a mix of Chez/Pandain/the dude who replaced in to round things out.
I don’t have a super strong read on Koshi but I also have tube as my strongest town read. I had Vivax as well but he got shot.
Jock was stronger on FF being scum than I was, but now I’ve come around. I think the opposite may have been true for slam but not sure, I think we are both in agreement that FF and slam look bad but will wait for Jock to come back in as there are things I want to discuss with him.
As for Tube saying that slam reading into why Vivax got shot and fingering HF & Pandain afterward is a fine reason for him to flip his townread, I think that’s a very weak argument.
First of all, slam’s response to me when I said “how are you so sure that HF is town here when even though I agree with HF I don’t have a read yet” was basically, cryptic TL;DR “because I know HF well”
Then if he knows HF well, he’d know that HF scum would likely never shoot Vivax on n1. Hell, he even made a jab at me because he thinks that is such a whacky kill that only someone with bad night kill skills would do such a thing. On top of that Vivax barely mentioned HF at all, just made one passing comment on both HF and Pandain to look into them. This is 100% not a reason to completely flip your read if you supposedly know HF well, because 1.) he was unlikely to shoot Vivax in the first place and 2.) even if he would shoot Vivax, HF is not such a weak scum player that he’d be worried about an offhand reference like that.
If anything it amplifies Vivax’s posts significantly when he was barely active yesterday and would backfire really badly.
i know I said I wouldn’t speculate further but I can’t resist. It smells more like a failed mason hunting attempt than anything else because scum are dumb
-wherebugsgo
Actually that wasn’t me, for what it’s worth.
I was referring to HF making the jab because HF thinks it’s a low skill move. You can read his gut reaction to the flip, I responded to it so I remember it exists somewhere.
I’m saying that since you apparently know HF so well it’s odd that you find the kill implicated him since the HF I know would not be very likely to kill Vivax unless he delegated the kill or it was a bad attempt at mason hunting, and if it were an attempt at mason hunting then the kill doesn’t implicate anyone because any scum would try that.
In other words there was no town-motivated reason for you to 180 your read that hard because presumably you’d know this already.
-wherebugsgo
You do know that
1. My vote is still on Pandain 2. That I read HF’s filter before changing my mind and encourage others to do the same
Right? Maybe not knowing this is forgivable.
1. So is HF your top scumread or not?
2. What exactly did you find in his filter that changed your mind despite the fact that you read the exact same posts on day 1 and used them to draw the conclusion that he is for sure town?
-wherebugsgo
K I guess, since I haven’t moved my vote, he isn’t. But should Pandain flip town he is. I don’t think they are both scum.
2. Have you read it? Do you actually read my posts?
I am not going to answer this because I believe my flipping town and being reread more seriously is pro-town.
Why does Pandain’s alignment have literally anything to do with HF? It doesn’t
Like you don’t actually answer anything, your conclusions make 0 sense.
If Pandain flips town HF is scum... because....? Unicorns? They can’t both be scum together, why? Why can’t they both be town??? Because I really just mostly think Pandain. But because HF had a nastyass filter which is getting better at least, but also someone on the Rayn train must be scum is something I think I only partly realized, not in a way I could put into words.
And if Pandain flips scum why is HF automatically town thereafter? because then I will have better understood the situation. I am being as confident as I can.
-wherebugsgo
Slam wrote the last thing in green. "nastyass filter" from HF
On July 25 2019 23:56 Chezinu wrote: It looks like there are at least two people that want me to address why I am so mafia. Well, you see the question asked is not a good one. For it is built upon an assumption that is false. In order to explain why I am so mafia, I would have to have a greater alignment to mafia than town. The "so" assumes that I have a greater amount of mafia than they thought should be my baseline. Here I am assuming the baseline to be brown, which would mean they think my color is tinted more red than green. Ryan asked what my color was before he left us. Now two individuals are trying to infer my color through their prejudice. They asked a question in a colorist why. They assumed my color without asking. You see Ryan asked about my color. These two assumed my color.. big difference.
Yes!
I ask you why you behave redly.
You know the way, you have returned from Colorado to the Sequoias!
But you are still at ground level at this post. I shall read thee, most excellent Russian American
On July 25 2019 13:45 Alakaslam wrote: Chezinu y u so mafia?
On July 27 2019 01:57 Branch.AUT wrote: I dislike the interaction between koshi, slam and HF. It seems to be aimed at making thread think only about pandain. When theres many other options to consider.
I did mention Chezinu is scummy but I like him too much in person to vote him yet
defense of chez here. honestly i keep people around sometimes too who i like even if i slightly scum read them, but only to a certain extent. In this case, there's two people who he scum reads way more than me (he's never actually scumread me) and two shitty reasons.
I think having a scum read on people and then refusing(indirectly or directly) to vote them is trademark mafia. In this case, Slam is doing it twice. I also don't like his characterizations of the rayn lynch which is complete lies/misrepresentations and sounds like a mafia trying to lecture town about how "obviously wrong" they were.
On July 27 2019 04:11 Pandain wrote: Jock and HF seem fine so far. I'll admit I only read the first half of Jock/Bugs filter but they seemed town with their effort, responses, critical thinking, etc...
Don't like Slam's filter. Mainly for two reasons.
1. He completely lies/misrepresents what happened to Rayn day 1
On July 25 2019 02:49 Alakaslam wrote: From the look of things we lose Rayn.
Not good. He is a strong player.
Rayn when you return please just make cases in last bit don’t waste too much time on defense. There comes a point where people won’t change their minds, period.
Anyway, so people can make associations later:
My reason for believing Rayn to be town are mostly on meta. The case against him is basically that he is anti town because he is able to get angry. And not understand sarcasm. Basically.
Bad case. My reasons for scumreading the smurf is trying to shut me down, and a few other things but those are wifom. Not enough to vote on.
I vote him to save Rayn.
Absolutely terrible post. This was not at all the reason for voting Rayn at all. I know townie's can misunderstand stuff sometimes but Slam was active and responding to people the entire thread, I find it hard to believe he actually misread the dozens of actual posts on why Rayn could have been scum. It's more likely he's just TMI knowing rayn's alignment and not really reading those cases.
2. His vote on me
He's voting me because I'm "utterly forgetable" and literally no other reason. + Show Spoiler +
On July 26 2019 07:02 Eywa- wrote: Pandain is uderly forgettable, so it could be him.
Yup this is why he got my vote as well.
HF is a tough catch and I don’t like lynching him early because after about day 1 or sometimes 2 he is one of the most reliable towns who can carry a comeback.
On July 26 2019 07:15 Koshi wrote: Slam. Didnt we both thibk Pandain was town during the night? I'll follow your lead, it's just weird. 😁
Yes, but I was gut feeling that. In the context of HF filter I am more and more thinking Hf actually but Pandain was too damn forgettable.
Meanwhile, he actually scumreads HF and Chezinu but doesn't vote for them , HF for some bullshit "He's a vet" reason and Chezinu...for no reason. + Show Spoiler +
On July 26 2019 06:56 Alakaslam wrote: In all of HF, the confident active poster’s whopping 1.5 pages of filter, he seems to give the impression that scum outnumber the town roughly 3:1
Hell we might even be able to reverse POE with that
I’m actually totally down with both HF or Pandain after reading HF.
On July 26 2019 07:11 Tubesock wrote: FYI Slam often says he needs to die so town isn’t stuck with him lategame as he knows people can’t read him.
Secondly, saying both HF and Pandain may not be mafia probably has more to do with the reality that scumreads are often wrong. Not a lot of people have the same confidence that Eywa- was showing.
Do you actually have a preference right now between HF and Pandain or is everyone just gonna say they think they meet good lynches and then explain nothing?
I’d give it about 24 hours personally before I start considering killing either of them but I agree on principle that HF & Pandain are not bad leads, especially if all of Coag & FF & Chezinu are town (or even two out of three, which is fairly likely)
I want to see more opinions on this list of players:
FF Coag Chezinu HF Pandain
As at least with slam the opinions are already fairly polarized. In my case it’s just a conditional read.
-wherebugsgo
My way of reading HF is essentially he’s mafia until he proves himself town by doing something that makes life for mafia!HF harder for zero reason. But it requires time and I don’t mind giving him days because I know he’s busy. I also am not that afraid of a mafia HF running around though. He gets a lot of heat every game. Except this one, which to me is interesting.
My preference is Pandain (between him and HF). Although I still think you’re mafia but I’m willing to watch you work.
I personally am not giving HF much heat because
1. I read him correctly day 1 for two games in a row then started becoming paranoid when he did jack shit into terrible fake claim in the first game, so I led a wagon that killed him. Then he tunneled someone I thought was obvious town (and got him killed) in the second game and fake claimed again?? So HF’s play is erratic enough that I have no confidence in being able to read him properly atm.
2. He caught on the same thing I did with slam @ EoD
3. Engaging with HF is an easy way to pollute the thread.
As for Pandain, I’ve played with him twice (?) recently and by this point in the game he’s ordinarily posted a lot more, and everyone has already jumped on him to kill him, but I think I can read him well, especially when in that first game we played I was essentially the only person who correctly and confidently believed he was town.
This game he hasn’t done anything to indicate either alignment but the game in general is very slow.
What do you think of Coag and FF then?
-wherebugsgo
This excellently states why I am loth to lynch HF early even if he is my top scumread, which at the moment he is.
WNG/Jock either of you want to read his filter? It’s Hf but it is also short.
"HF is my top scumread" while he's voting me, rofl
On July 26 2019 13:28 Fecalfeast wrote: I'm gonna stop spamming the thread so ppl can catch up if anyone wants me to respond to anything I will but I'll try not to comment on every new post for a while https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkAVWqT2OJI
Oh god this made me feel so guilty. Sorry.... tried to consolidate a bit.
On July 26 2019 14:20 NoSmurfHere wrote:
On July 26 2019 14:17 Alakaslam wrote:
On July 26 2019 12:03 NoSmurfHere wrote:
On July 26 2019 11:34 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On July 25 2019 07:55 NoSmurfHere wrote: [quote]
I want to hear what others think of this post as it sticks out quite a lot especially in light of rayn’s flip.
The good news is that tomorrow morning we have a confirmed townie, so if you are rayn’s partner please do not claim until then.
I also want to hear from you, HF. For everyone else my assignment to you is to tell me your read of HF at this very moment.
Ok I don't like this post from slam at all. The whole part about "making associates later" reeks like TMI and this post is basically slam's way of distancing himself from the lynch so that he's on the right side of the vote that he knows will flip town. Aside from that, he literally admits his reasons for voting the hydra are terrible but he's saving rayn, I view this as scummy since it's hard for me to believe someone organically comes up with a townread so strong on D1 that they're willing to vote for someone else they don't think is scum in order to save them.
On July 25 2019 08:51 Tubesock wrote: I townreading FF and Alakaslam. I also townread Coagulation but it's softer.
Yeah Bugs I’ll scumread you for shutting down a player for posting 25 times in a row when it’s a very slow game. It wasn’t like anyone else was around, and You should know that Slam isn’t exactly a high post count player, so shutting him down hurts town. I doubt it took you anymore time to read those 25 posts than it would have if it was all in one.
I think the shade towards FF and Meap post flip are scummy.
Alright so I'm still leaning scum on FF, I think that the hydra makes a decent point here
I think the TMI argument on slam is actually very strong, and I have some meta reasons as well that I can go over if anyone cares to but I'm really interested as to where you're getting this townread from, could you elaborate more on that?
I disagree with the hydra scum read but coag is also a soft townread for me.
On July 25 2019 12:24 Vivax wrote: Looks like I forgot to unvote NSH and vote anything else yesterday really..
I think we can all agree that after that mislynch I don't really have to feel arsed to play. He was rather obvious town.
My advice is that you look into HF and pandain.
Was really hoping from more than this from you vivax, picking lurkers as your suspects is weaksauce.
On July 25 2019 17:30 Koshi wrote: [quote] This guy is town most likely. Going so hard against the consensus. Must be thinking aboit the game.
Koshi and Tube are definitely my strongest townreads.
On July 26 2019 06:47 Alakaslam wrote: What a short read.
He suspected Pandain and HF mostly. If he is killed this early, I tend to think he was on the right track.
See subsequent vote in vote thread. If folks want a counter wagon, it should be me I think so that my statements can warrant a reread when I am gone.
Because then y’all will realize: 1. I was town, and knew Rayn was too 2. That I was playing pretty carefully and pretty attentively 3. That though I couldn’t explain why, I was right on Rayn and am semi- likely to be right on other reads by EOD D2.
If Hf vs Pandain well idk I somehow feel they aren’t BOTH scum.
I think what I've highlighted red here sums up parts of my meta read on slam. Based on my memory, slam is absolutely not playing his usual self and he is aware of it and has tried to emulate that at times but it feels artificial. He is much too serious and, in his own words, careful compared to what town slam does.
On July 26 2019 07:09 Koshi wrote: 0% chance slam is mafia. If you think so you shoot up in my mafia list so high kites would be jealous.
On July 26 2019 07:10 Koshi wrote: I'll sheep slam even though I dont think Pandain is the best kill. But I dont know who is.
Ok you and Tube agreeing on this is enough to give me pause but I really would like to know what you think of some of the points I've brought up earlier in this post. I'm not going to just sheep either of you without some decent reasoning behind your thought process.
Alright I'm caught up and this is where I'm at. I think the TMI evidence, along with the meta/gut read I've got on slam is the strongest I've got right now. Going to go ahead and vote for him. FF is probably my second strongest read with a mix of Chez/Pandain/the dude who replaced in to round things out.
I don’t have a super strong read on Koshi but I also have tube as my strongest town read. I had Vivax as well but he got shot.
Jock was stronger on FF being scum than I was, but now I’ve come around. I think the opposite may have been true for slam but not sure, I think we are both in agreement that FF and slam look bad but will wait for Jock to come back in as there are things I want to discuss with him.
As for Tube saying that slam reading into why Vivax got shot and fingering HF & Pandain afterward is a fine reason for him to flip his townread, I think that’s a very weak argument.
First of all, slam’s response to me when I said “how are you so sure that HF is town here when even though I agree with HF I don’t have a read yet” was basically, cryptic TL;DR “because I know HF well”
Then if he knows HF well, he’d know that HF scum would likely never shoot Vivax on n1. Hell, he even made a jab at me because he thinks that is such a whacky kill that only someone with bad night kill skills would do such a thing. On top of that Vivax barely mentioned HF at all, just made one passing comment on both HF and Pandain to look into them. This is 100% not a reason to completely flip your read if you supposedly know HF well, because 1.) he was unlikely to shoot Vivax in the first place and 2.) even if he would shoot Vivax, HF is not such a weak scum player that he’d be worried about an offhand reference like that.
If anything it amplifies Vivax’s posts significantly when he was barely active yesterday and would backfire really badly.
i know I said I wouldn’t speculate further but I can’t resist. It smells more like a failed mason hunting attempt than anything else because scum are dumb
-wherebugsgo
Actually that wasn’t me, for what it’s worth.
I was referring to HF making the jab because HF thinks it’s a low skill move. You can read his gut reaction to the flip, I responded to it so I remember it exists somewhere.
I’m saying that since you apparently know HF so well it’s odd that you find the kill implicated him since the HF I know would not be very likely to kill Vivax unless he delegated the kill or it was a bad attempt at mason hunting, and if it were an attempt at mason hunting then the kill doesn’t implicate anyone because any scum would try that.
In other words there was no town-motivated reason for you to 180 your read that hard because presumably you’d know this already.
-wherebugsgo
You do know that
1. My vote is still on Pandain 2. That I read HF’s filter before changing my mind and encourage others to do the same
Right? Maybe not knowing this is forgivable.
1. So is HF your top scumread or not?
2. What exactly did you find in his filter that changed your mind despite the fact that you read the exact same posts on day 1 and used them to draw the conclusion that he is for sure town?
-wherebugsgo
K I guess, since I haven’t moved my vote, he isn’t. But should Pandain flip town he is. I don’t think they are both scum.
2. Have you read it? Do you actually read my posts?
I am not going to answer this because I believe my flipping town and being reread more seriously is pro-town.
Why does Pandain’s alignment have literally anything to do with HF? It doesn’t
Like you don’t actually answer anything, your conclusions make 0 sense.
If Pandain flips town HF is scum... because....? Unicorns? They can’t both be scum together, why? Why can’t they both be town??? Because I really just mostly think Pandain. But because HF had a nastyass filter which is getting better at least, but also someone on the Rayn train must be scum is something I think I only partly realized, not in a way I could put into words.
And if Pandain flips scum why is HF automatically town thereafter? because then I will have better understood the situation. I am being as confident as I can.
-wherebugsgo
Slam wrote the last thing in green. "nastyass filter" from HF
On July 25 2019 23:56 Chezinu wrote: It looks like there are at least two people that want me to address why I am so mafia. Well, you see the question asked is not a good one. For it is built upon an assumption that is false. In order to explain why I am so mafia, I would have to have a greater alignment to mafia than town. The "so" assumes that I have a greater amount of mafia than they thought should be my baseline. Here I am assuming the baseline to be brown, which would mean they think my color is tinted more red than green. Ryan asked what my color was before he left us. Now two individuals are trying to infer my color through their prejudice. They asked a question in a colorist why. They assumed my color without asking. You see Ryan asked about my color. These two assumed my color.. big difference.
Yes!
I ask you why you behave redly.
You know the way, you have returned from Colorado to the Sequoias!
But you are still at ground level at this post. I shall read thee, most excellent Russian American
On July 25 2019 13:45 Alakaslam wrote: Chezinu y u so mafia?
On July 27 2019 01:57 Branch.AUT wrote: I dislike the interaction between koshi, slam and HF. It seems to be aimed at making thread think only about pandain. When theres many other options to consider.
I did mention Chezinu is scummy but I like him too much in person to vote him yet
defense of chez here. honestly i keep people around sometimes too who i like even if i slightly scum read them, but only to a certain extent. In this case, there's two people who he scum reads way more than me (he's never actually scumread me) and two shitty reasons.
I think having a scum read on people and then refusing(indirectly or directly) to vote them is trademark mafia. In this case, Slam is doing it twice. I also don't like his characterizations of the rayn lynch which is complete lies/misrepresentations and sounds like a mafia trying to lecture town about how "obviously wrong" they were.
Good chance to be mafia
Please tell me what the case on Rayn was then? Because I don’t see it.
Six people voted Rayn. Six.
On July 23 2019 18:36 Holyflare wrote: I find it weird how you found me weird and haven't done anything about it in 40 mins though.
On July 23 2019 19:33 Holyflare wrote: ##Vote raynpelikoneet
Took you far too long to even accuse me of anything and it was shit.
On July 23 2019 19:34 Holyflare wrote: And on top of that you said I'm weird this game, did nothing, then wrote a case saying my initial posts were fine. So why were they originally cause for concern rayn?
On July 23 2019 19:44 raynpelikoneet wrote: Well w/e gonna write on phone. I found you weird vecause the post on pandain didnt sit well with me, neither did the vote on coag after. I thought you had read at öeast some posts when you started posting and if you believed someone actually died you didnt find me weird since i sure would have an opening different than what it was (if there indeed was a nk). Obvs an expllanation would be that you didnt read any posts, which is why i wanted a confirmation on why you actually voted for coag (basically you could give out you in fact rwad posts before you started oosting). Thats why i originally asked about your vote and nothing more.
On July 23 2019 16:43 Holyflare wrote: Wut why is there a night 0?
On July 23 2019 16:50 Holyflare wrote: I can't even find anything about a n0 in the op what is going on?
On July 23 2019 16:50 Holyflare wrote: Palmar wasn't even in the game... Right... Carry on :D
On July 23 2019 16:51 Holyflare wrote: Personally I blame Pandain for looking similar to Palmar. I hope you'll take responsibility for this.
Now this is fine i think. Holyflare doesn't read the OP, sees Pandain dying during N0 (because of the green part, i can't even imagine what that would otherwise mean), then realises "shit it's not pandain it's palmar, lol palmar is not even in the game".
Fine, this however doesn't make any sense at all:
On July 23 2019 18:36 Holyflare wrote: I was honestly gonna go into a rant about how shit this game was for having a n0 and how I was confirmed town because I'd never shoot palmar and then I'd already formulated a list of suspects of coag, mz, chez, bugs, possibly you but here we are. I'm still confirmed town though
So AFTER Holyflare realises it's not in fact pandain but palmar who "died" he forms a list of possible candidates. I don't think this makes any sense because either at this point he thinks it was not palmar but pandain or he has already figured out the whole nk doesnt even make any sense.
Can you explain to me how you can make all the red statements together? How can you dislike me for the posts on pandain/palmar and the vote on coag but then say my posts on pandain look fine in your case on me and afterwards say that voting coag is good? Just so you know, I think you're mafia still.
On July 24 2019 03:56 Holyflare wrote: This is the timeline:
The problem with this case is that it says you are FINE with my Pandain posts after having literally just said in 104 how weird my Pandain posts were! You THEN scum read me for the rant bit (clear misunderstanding, fine, but the first point still stands).
8. Rayn rants at Koshi and says HF makes fair point about Coag 123
There is conflicting info here. Point 3 contradicts point 5 (where you say you are FINE with my Pandain posts) and point 3 also contradicts point 8 where you agree with the Coag points!!
So, you either lied about the Coag and Pandain points making me "weird" since you say you LIKED them in both your case and your rant at Koshi or you've been caught out.
Either way, I'm actually voting you now and implore everyone else to do the same.
On July 24 2019 17:33 Koshi wrote: We paid our honours 10 seconds apart from each other Pandain! Are you town too?
Still hits me hard
My activity today is going to be really low, I apologize. I'm not going to be final on Rayn yet obviously, but the hydra has been far from inactive this game and the scumread on jock because "He's afraid to post" is bad for two reasons: 1. He's been posting a lot 2. He's doing a scumread meta based on his one scum game that was his first game on this site about five months ago or so.
I think it's just really lazy and weak arguments and I don't know how he actually believes them.
On July 24 2019 14:05 Koshi wrote: rayn mafia: 1) He doesnt clearly enough explain why the people he calls mafia are mafia. 2) Expresses his mafia read on me too confidently.
You have seven pages of filter. You've been constantly active. I refuse to believe you somehow missed all of these posts as town. Instead it's much more likely you were skimming any points on rayn because you know he's town and so never took those cases seriously.
On July 26 2019 02:42 Coagulation wrote: Im putting my old baby girl down tomorrow. Im hurting more than I ever have in my life. Im sorry I wont be around to finish.
Hey if you ever read this Coag and need to share your feelings send me a PM. I cried for like three days straight when my dog died. I'm sure it was a hard decision but you did it for the best and your dog had a great life with you. I'm here for you.
On July 27 2019 04:11 Pandain wrote: Jock and HF seem fine so far. I'll admit I only read the first half of Jock/Bugs filter but they seemed town with their effort, responses, critical thinking, etc...
Don't like Slam's filter. Mainly for two reasons.
1. He completely lies/misrepresents what happened to Rayn day 1
On July 25 2019 02:49 Alakaslam wrote: From the look of things we lose Rayn.
Not good. He is a strong player.
Rayn when you return please just make cases in last bit don’t waste too much time on defense. There comes a point where people won’t change their minds, period.
Anyway, so people can make associations later:
My reason for believing Rayn to be town are mostly on meta. The case against him is basically that he is anti town because he is able to get angry. And not understand sarcasm. Basically.
Bad case. My reasons for scumreading the smurf is trying to shut me down, and a few other things but those are wifom. Not enough to vote on.
I vote him to save Rayn.
Absolutely terrible post. This was not at all the reason for voting Rayn at all. I know townie's can misunderstand stuff sometimes but Slam was active and responding to people the entire thread, I find it hard to believe he actually misread the dozens of actual posts on why Rayn could have been scum. It's more likely he's just TMI knowing rayn's alignment and not really reading those cases.
2. His vote on me
He's voting me because I'm "utterly forgetable" and literally no other reason. + Show Spoiler +
On July 26 2019 07:02 Eywa- wrote: Pandain is uderly forgettable, so it could be him.
Yup this is why he got my vote as well.
HF is a tough catch and I don’t like lynching him early because after about day 1 or sometimes 2 he is one of the most reliable towns who can carry a comeback.
On July 26 2019 07:15 Koshi wrote: Slam. Didnt we both thibk Pandain was town during the night? I'll follow your lead, it's just weird. 😁
Yes, but I was gut feeling that. In the context of HF filter I am more and more thinking Hf actually but Pandain was too damn forgettable.
Meanwhile, he actually scumreads HF and Chezinu but doesn't vote for them , HF for some bullshit "He's a vet" reason and Chezinu...for no reason. + Show Spoiler +
On July 26 2019 06:56 Alakaslam wrote: In all of HF, the confident active poster’s whopping 1.5 pages of filter, he seems to give the impression that scum outnumber the town roughly 3:1
Hell we might even be able to reverse POE with that
I’m actually totally down with both HF or Pandain after reading HF.
On July 26 2019 07:11 Tubesock wrote: FYI Slam often says he needs to die so town isn’t stuck with him lategame as he knows people can’t read him.
Secondly, saying both HF and Pandain may not be mafia probably has more to do with the reality that scumreads are often wrong. Not a lot of people have the same confidence that Eywa- was showing.
Do you actually have a preference right now between HF and Pandain or is everyone just gonna say they think they meet good lynches and then explain nothing?
I’d give it about 24 hours personally before I start considering killing either of them but I agree on principle that HF & Pandain are not bad leads, especially if all of Coag & FF & Chezinu are town (or even two out of three, which is fairly likely)
I want to see more opinions on this list of players:
FF Coag Chezinu HF Pandain
As at least with slam the opinions are already fairly polarized. In my case it’s just a conditional read.
-wherebugsgo
My way of reading HF is essentially he’s mafia until he proves himself town by doing something that makes life for mafia!HF harder for zero reason. But it requires time and I don’t mind giving him days because I know he’s busy. I also am not that afraid of a mafia HF running around though. He gets a lot of heat every game. Except this one, which to me is interesting.
My preference is Pandain (between him and HF). Although I still think you’re mafia but I’m willing to watch you work.
I personally am not giving HF much heat because
1. I read him correctly day 1 for two games in a row then started becoming paranoid when he did jack shit into terrible fake claim in the first game, so I led a wagon that killed him. Then he tunneled someone I thought was obvious town (and got him killed) in the second game and fake claimed again?? So HF’s play is erratic enough that I have no confidence in being able to read him properly atm.
2. He caught on the same thing I did with slam @ EoD
3. Engaging with HF is an easy way to pollute the thread.
As for Pandain, I’ve played with him twice (?) recently and by this point in the game he’s ordinarily posted a lot more, and everyone has already jumped on him to kill him, but I think I can read him well, especially when in that first game we played I was essentially the only person who correctly and confidently believed he was town.
This game he hasn’t done anything to indicate either alignment but the game in general is very slow.
What do you think of Coag and FF then?
-wherebugsgo
This excellently states why I am loth to lynch HF early even if he is my top scumread, which at the moment he is.
WNG/Jock either of you want to read his filter? It’s Hf but it is also short.
"HF is my top scumread" while he's voting me, rofl
On July 26 2019 13:28 Fecalfeast wrote: I'm gonna stop spamming the thread so ppl can catch up if anyone wants me to respond to anything I will but I'll try not to comment on every new post for a while https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkAVWqT2OJI
Oh god this made me feel so guilty. Sorry.... tried to consolidate a bit.
On July 26 2019 14:20 NoSmurfHere wrote:
On July 26 2019 14:17 Alakaslam wrote:
On July 26 2019 12:03 NoSmurfHere wrote:
On July 26 2019 11:34 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On July 25 2019 07:55 NoSmurfHere wrote: [quote]
I want to hear what others think of this post as it sticks out quite a lot especially in light of rayn’s flip.
The good news is that tomorrow morning we have a confirmed townie, so if you are rayn’s partner please do not claim until then.
I also want to hear from you, HF. For everyone else my assignment to you is to tell me your read of HF at this very moment.
Ok I don't like this post from slam at all. The whole part about "making associates later" reeks like TMI and this post is basically slam's way of distancing himself from the lynch so that he's on the right side of the vote that he knows will flip town. Aside from that, he literally admits his reasons for voting the hydra are terrible but he's saving rayn, I view this as scummy since it's hard for me to believe someone organically comes up with a townread so strong on D1 that they're willing to vote for someone else they don't think is scum in order to save them.
On July 25 2019 08:51 Tubesock wrote: I townreading FF and Alakaslam. I also townread Coagulation but it's softer.
Yeah Bugs I’ll scumread you for shutting down a player for posting 25 times in a row when it’s a very slow game. It wasn’t like anyone else was around, and You should know that Slam isn’t exactly a high post count player, so shutting him down hurts town. I doubt it took you anymore time to read those 25 posts than it would have if it was all in one.
I think the shade towards FF and Meap post flip are scummy.
Alright so I'm still leaning scum on FF, I think that the hydra makes a decent point here
I think the TMI argument on slam is actually very strong, and I have some meta reasons as well that I can go over if anyone cares to but I'm really interested as to where you're getting this townread from, could you elaborate more on that?
I disagree with the hydra scum read but coag is also a soft townread for me.
On July 25 2019 12:24 Vivax wrote: Looks like I forgot to unvote NSH and vote anything else yesterday really..
I think we can all agree that after that mislynch I don't really have to feel arsed to play. He was rather obvious town.
My advice is that you look into HF and pandain.
Was really hoping from more than this from you vivax, picking lurkers as your suspects is weaksauce.
On July 25 2019 17:30 Koshi wrote: [quote] This guy is town most likely. Going so hard against the consensus. Must be thinking aboit the game.
Koshi and Tube are definitely my strongest townreads.
On July 26 2019 06:47 Alakaslam wrote: What a short read.
He suspected Pandain and HF mostly. If he is killed this early, I tend to think he was on the right track.
See subsequent vote in vote thread. If folks want a counter wagon, it should be me I think so that my statements can warrant a reread when I am gone.
Because then y’all will realize: 1. I was town, and knew Rayn was too 2. That I was playing pretty carefully and pretty attentively 3. That though I couldn’t explain why, I was right on Rayn and am semi- likely to be right on other reads by EOD D2.
If Hf vs Pandain well idk I somehow feel they aren’t BOTH scum.
I think what I've highlighted red here sums up parts of my meta read on slam. Based on my memory, slam is absolutely not playing his usual self and he is aware of it and has tried to emulate that at times but it feels artificial. He is much too serious and, in his own words, careful compared to what town slam does.
On July 26 2019 07:09 Koshi wrote: 0% chance slam is mafia. If you think so you shoot up in my mafia list so high kites would be jealous.
On July 26 2019 07:10 Koshi wrote: I'll sheep slam even though I dont think Pandain is the best kill. But I dont know who is.
Ok you and Tube agreeing on this is enough to give me pause but I really would like to know what you think of some of the points I've brought up earlier in this post. I'm not going to just sheep either of you without some decent reasoning behind your thought process.
Alright I'm caught up and this is where I'm at. I think the TMI evidence, along with the meta/gut read I've got on slam is the strongest I've got right now. Going to go ahead and vote for him. FF is probably my second strongest read with a mix of Chez/Pandain/the dude who replaced in to round things out.
I don’t have a super strong read on Koshi but I also have tube as my strongest town read. I had Vivax as well but he got shot.
Jock was stronger on FF being scum than I was, but now I’ve come around. I think the opposite may have been true for slam but not sure, I think we are both in agreement that FF and slam look bad but will wait for Jock to come back in as there are things I want to discuss with him.
As for Tube saying that slam reading into why Vivax got shot and fingering HF & Pandain afterward is a fine reason for him to flip his townread, I think that’s a very weak argument.
First of all, slam’s response to me when I said “how are you so sure that HF is town here when even though I agree with HF I don’t have a read yet” was basically, cryptic TL;DR “because I know HF well”
Then if he knows HF well, he’d know that HF scum would likely never shoot Vivax on n1. Hell, he even made a jab at me because he thinks that is such a whacky kill that only someone with bad night kill skills would do such a thing. On top of that Vivax barely mentioned HF at all, just made one passing comment on both HF and Pandain to look into them. This is 100% not a reason to completely flip your read if you supposedly know HF well, because 1.) he was unlikely to shoot Vivax in the first place and 2.) even if he would shoot Vivax, HF is not such a weak scum player that he’d be worried about an offhand reference like that.
If anything it amplifies Vivax’s posts significantly when he was barely active yesterday and would backfire really badly.
i know I said I wouldn’t speculate further but I can’t resist. It smells more like a failed mason hunting attempt than anything else because scum are dumb
-wherebugsgo
Actually that wasn’t me, for what it’s worth.
I was referring to HF making the jab because HF thinks it’s a low skill move. You can read his gut reaction to the flip, I responded to it so I remember it exists somewhere.
I’m saying that since you apparently know HF so well it’s odd that you find the kill implicated him since the HF I know would not be very likely to kill Vivax unless he delegated the kill or it was a bad attempt at mason hunting, and if it were an attempt at mason hunting then the kill doesn’t implicate anyone because any scum would try that.
In other words there was no town-motivated reason for you to 180 your read that hard because presumably you’d know this already.
-wherebugsgo
You do know that
1. My vote is still on Pandain 2. That I read HF’s filter before changing my mind and encourage others to do the same
Right? Maybe not knowing this is forgivable.
1. So is HF your top scumread or not?
2. What exactly did you find in his filter that changed your mind despite the fact that you read the exact same posts on day 1 and used them to draw the conclusion that he is for sure town?
-wherebugsgo
K I guess, since I haven’t moved my vote, he isn’t. But should Pandain flip town he is. I don’t think they are both scum.
2. Have you read it? Do you actually read my posts?
I am not going to answer this because I believe my flipping town and being reread more seriously is pro-town.
Why does Pandain’s alignment have literally anything to do with HF? It doesn’t
Like you don’t actually answer anything, your conclusions make 0 sense.
If Pandain flips town HF is scum... because....? Unicorns? They can’t both be scum together, why? Why can’t they both be town??? Because I really just mostly think Pandain. But because HF had a nastyass filter which is getting better at least, but also someone on the Rayn train must be scum is something I think I only partly realized, not in a way I could put into words.
And if Pandain flips scum why is HF automatically town thereafter? because then I will have better understood the situation. I am being as confident as I can.
-wherebugsgo
Slam wrote the last thing in green. "nastyass filter" from HF
On July 25 2019 23:56 Chezinu wrote: It looks like there are at least two people that want me to address why I am so mafia. Well, you see the question asked is not a good one. For it is built upon an assumption that is false. In order to explain why I am so mafia, I would have to have a greater alignment to mafia than town. The "so" assumes that I have a greater amount of mafia than they thought should be my baseline. Here I am assuming the baseline to be brown, which would mean they think my color is tinted more red than green. Ryan asked what my color was before he left us. Now two individuals are trying to infer my color through their prejudice. They asked a question in a colorist why. They assumed my color without asking. You see Ryan asked about my color. These two assumed my color.. big difference.
Yes!
I ask you why you behave redly.
You know the way, you have returned from Colorado to the Sequoias!
But you are still at ground level at this post. I shall read thee, most excellent Russian American
On July 25 2019 13:45 Alakaslam wrote: Chezinu y u so mafia?
On July 27 2019 01:57 Branch.AUT wrote: I dislike the interaction between koshi, slam and HF. It seems to be aimed at making thread think only about pandain. When theres many other options to consider.
I did mention Chezinu is scummy but I like him too much in person to vote him yet
defense of chez here. honestly i keep people around sometimes too who i like even if i slightly scum read them, but only to a certain extent. In this case, there's two people who he scum reads way more than me (he's never actually scumread me) and two shitty reasons.
I think having a scum read on people and then refusing(indirectly or directly) to vote them is trademark mafia. In this case, Slam is doing it twice. I also don't like his characterizations of the rayn lynch which is complete lies/misrepresentations and sounds like a mafia trying to lecture town about how "obviously wrong" they were.
Good chance to be mafia
In your words what happened to rayn? Where is the misrepresentation? I agree with Slam.
Concerning point 2. I mean sure. You admitted you haven't been active and it's not even a bad reason to lynch you. He explained HF and also said he just personally likes Chezinu. So I can see why he would vote you instead. I've voted for people who were policy over people I thought might be scum but were funny to me so....
Not at all. Slam stated that the case on Rayn was only "he's anti town because he gets angry". It's not at all what anyone was really saying except Jugs (who were not even the main proponents of the lynch and they were the last ones to vote
On July 25 2019 02:49 Alakaslam wrote: From the look of things we lose Rayn.
Not good. He is a strong player.
Rayn when you return please just make cases in last bit don’t waste too much time on defense. There comes a point where people won’t change their minds, period.
Anyway, so people can make associations later:
My reason for believing Rayn to be town are mostly on meta. The case against him is basically that he is anti town because he is able to get angry. And not understand sarcasm. Basically.
Bad case. My reasons for scumreading the smurf is trying to shut me down, and a few other things but those are wifom. Not enough to vote on.
I vote him to save Rayn.
I said I can thereoetically see the Chez thing, and I can thereoticsally see the HF thing, but its nevertheless suspicious when he does two objectively scummy things like that. Like if someone has a lot of small scummy things that can be thereoetically explained, it nevertheless makes it overall scummy if it occurs alot. Here, I think there's two people who he (has stated) he scum reads stronger than me. Sure, he said weak excuses for not voting them, but when he acdtively chooses to not vote two higher scum reads it looks suspicious no matter what else he says.
What if I voted you but stated in thread I had three higher scum reads? Even if I explained them away, it's nevertheless suspicious. That's how I see slam.
On July 27 2019 04:31 Alakaslam wrote: I just read Rayn. I catastrophically misunderstood him.
how is it even about misunderstanding rayn?
you "misunderstood" the entire thread despite actively reading and responding in it
You also misunderstood rayn's case on the Hydra, it wasn't because J was afraid to post.
Not sure it was Rayn who posted it, but defeintely someone made a comment that they were suspicious of Jock because "he seems afraid to post as mafia and this game he's not posting alot"
On July 27 2019 04:14 Alakaslam wrote: And Pandain, the dead FOS you.
hardly. He said at one point I "might be mafia". He seems a lot more certain on HF and actually even you.
No. He said very early game that the townreads on slam are whack. Which I doubt were do to a read on slam as it is Slam's unreadableness. You're making shit up.
Ok I'm exagerrating a bit but he does also criticize slam for not appropriately reacting to a scummy post.
Meanwhile the only thing he said about me is "he might be mafia." I just think its a weak as hell reason to vote someone. sure he scum read me on the end, but it was very weak and there were others he scum read more.
On July 27 2019 04:43 Pandain wrote: Coag has literally nothing in his filter. Not even a scum read. Branch is very little too but that's to be expected at this point.
Let's wait and see what happens. Branch have you played mafia before on this forum or other forums?
On July 26 2019 02:42 Coagulation wrote: Im putting my old baby girl down tomorrow. Im hurting more than I ever have in my life. Im sorry I wont be around to finish.
Hey if you ever read this Coag and need to share your feelings send me a PM. I cried for like three days straight when my dog died. I'm sure it was a hard decision but you did it for the best and your dog had a great life with you. I'm here for you.
Hi! Are you looking for meta or just curious?
just wondering if you've played mafia before because if you're completely new it changes how i read you if you're a smurf or something, no worries.
On July 25 2019 08:51 Tubesock wrote: I townreading FF and Alakaslam. I also townread Coagulation but it's softer.
Yeah Bugs I’ll scumread you for shutting down a player for posting 25 times in a row when it’s a very slow game. It wasn’t like anyone else was around, and You should know that Slam isn’t exactly a high post count player, so shutting him down hurts town. I doubt it took you anymore time to read those 25 posts than it would have if it was all in one.
I think the shade towards FF and Meap post flip are scummy.
do you actually think it's a good thing to post 25 times in a row? not scumreading this for you, just genuinely curious.
Slight townread on TS, only reason its slight is because this is the most logical I've ever seen him play.
Chezinu filter actually complete trash.
On July 26 2019 07:10 Koshi wrote: I'll sheep slam even though I dont think Pandain is the best kill. But I dont know who is.
why did you say this? Even if you think slam is town, does that mean you should sheep him?
On July 26 2019 16:57 Koshi wrote: Slam is not mafia and playing extremely well. People who say he is are batshit craycray.
what has made you think he's "playing extremely well"? can you quote posts from him that made you think "damn this guy is on the right track"?
that hard defense of slam by koshi is really, really bad.
like he's even saying "I'll sheep you" when Koshi has been independently thinking about reads, coming to conclusions, having his own scum reads, etc... (i.e. no reason to sheep which is normally when you're uncertain/no time)
MZ's opening post on HF is equally terrible by afterwards he's been pretty typical MZ.
I don't understand ES's filter at all. I never understand her.
Slam isn't gonna get lynched so I'm gonna change. normally i'd vote koshi but HF is right that if Chez doesn't get lynched know he becomes a 10x worse liability later in the game. And he's not even a bad lynch anyway
honestly im impressed i managed to filter dive everyone. I have work to do but I'll try to pop in briefly every hour.
On July 28 2019 02:36 Tubesock wrote: I don't think it's bullshit.
You agree Chezinu is a good lynch. This lynch is coming out of nowhere. So, that could be a wrench in scumplay. It also provides a good opportunity to find logistical fallacies when/if people change their vote or don't. It forces everyone to reason why they changed or not. Plus, HF is absolutely right, it's a good play to see Chez die, and then force mafia to shoot into the 3 veterans or into the lurker crow.
It's pretty smart.
I guess so. But he's sounding like it will win us the game.
you said you're going to switch to Chez if he loses the lead. are you going to switch?
On July 28 2019 02:19 Pandain wrote: that hard defense of slam by koshi is really, really bad.
like he's even saying "I'll sheep you" when Koshi has been independently thinking about reads, coming to conclusions, having his own scum reads, etc... (i.e. no reason to sheep which is normally when you're uncertain/no time)
You just dont understand why I do things and then call it bad. LoL.
Bad = mafia?
Or are you just here pointing "bad" out?
Like... what is your point?
I said I would sheep but then played independently so now I am mafia? Lolololol
Oh boiiiii
are you purposely obsfucating/ exagerrating things ?
Yes of course it's hella suspicious when you've been thinking about the game independently before and after your whole defense of Slam, and then suddenly in the middle you say "ima just sheep slam".
Also you trying to cast shade on jugs and I for being "unwilling" to vote chezinu when we've already voted him is hilarious.
On July 28 2019 02:19 Pandain wrote: that hard defense of slam by koshi is really, really bad.
like he's even saying "I'll sheep you" when Koshi has been independently thinking about reads, coming to conclusions, having his own scum reads, etc... (i.e. no reason to sheep which is normally when you're uncertain/no time)
You just dont understand why I do things and then call it bad. LoL.
Bad = mafia?
Or are you just here pointing "bad" out?
Like... what is your point?
I said I would sheep but then played independently so now I am mafia? Lolololol
Oh boiiiii
are you purposely obsfucating/ exagerrating things ?
Yes of course it's hella suspicious when you've been thinking about the game independently before and after your whole defense of Slam, and then suddenly in the middle you say "ima just sheep slam".
Also you trying to cast shade on jugs and I for being "unwilling" to vote chezinu when we've already voted him is hilarious.
respond to this. how am I unwililng to vote for chez?
why did you randomly decide to throw away all your independant thoughts and ideas and to randomly sheep slam?
On July 28 2019 02:19 Pandain wrote: that hard defense of slam by koshi is really, really bad.
like he's even saying "I'll sheep you" when Koshi has been independently thinking about reads, coming to conclusions, having his own scum reads, etc... (i.e. no reason to sheep which is normally when you're uncertain/no time)
You just dont understand why I do things and then call it bad. LoL.
Bad = mafia?
Or are you just here pointing "bad" out?
Like... what is your point?
I said I would sheep but then played independently so now I am mafia? Lolololol
Oh boiiiii
are you purposely obsfucating/ exagerrating things ?
Yes of course it's hella suspicious when you've been thinking about the game independently before and after your whole defense of Slam, and then suddenly in the middle you say "ima just sheep slam".
Also you trying to cast shade on jugs and I for being "unwilling" to vote chezinu when we've already voted him is hilarious.
respond to this. how am I unwililng to vote for chez?
why did you randomly decide to throw away all your independant thoughts and ideas and to randomly sheep slam?
I'll pass. Nobody ever was mafia for saying they will sheep early day and then bothered to actually play the rest of the day.
But if that is how you identify mafia please carry on.
Completely wrong. It wasn't early on.
You played all of day 1. Then early day 2 you decided to throw away all your reads and say "I'll just sleep slam"
I'm pushing you to explain why you thought this was logical. Even if you think slam was town, did you trust him more than your own reads?
On July 28 2019 02:19 Pandain wrote: that hard defense of slam by koshi is really, really bad.
like he's even saying "I'll sheep you" when Koshi has been independently thinking about reads, coming to conclusions, having his own scum reads, etc... (i.e. no reason to sheep which is normally when you're uncertain/no time)
You just dont understand why I do things and then call it bad. LoL.
Bad = mafia?
Or are you just here pointing "bad" out?
Like... what is your point?
I said I would sheep but then played independently so now I am mafia? Lolololol
Oh boiiiii
are you purposely obsfucating/ exagerrating things ?
Yes of course it's hella suspicious when you've been thinking about the game independently before and after your whole defense of Slam, and then suddenly in the middle you say "ima just sheep slam".
Also you trying to cast shade on jugs and I for being "unwilling" to vote chezinu when we've already voted him is hilarious.
respond to this. how am I unwililng to vote for chez?
why did you randomly decide to throw away all your independant thoughts and ideas and to randomly sheep slam?
I'll pass. Nobody ever was mafia for saying they will sheep early day and then bothered to actually play the rest of the day.
But if that is how you identify mafia please carry on.
Completely wrong. It wasn't early on.
You played all of day 1. Then early day 2 you decided to throw away all your reads and say "I'll just sleep slam"
I'm pushing you to explain why you thought this was logical. Even if you think slam was town, did you trust him more than your own reads?
It's not like you ever said you felt too busy to play or uncertain about the game. you just threw away your reads at that point and said (twice) you'll sheep slam
On July 28 2019 04:00 Koshi wrote: I didnt have a single mafia read during d1 and n1. Proof me wrong.
if this is true it makes it worse for you, not better, considering you were very active throughout the thread
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
lynch me then.
Tou fuck.
You say " Koshi trows away all his reads blahblahblah"
I say " I didnt have readds"
You say"EVEN WORSE"
HAHHAHAHAGA
yeah you're right it's better than throwing away your scum reads.
but you're straight up lying if you think having no scum reads day1 and day2 is a good thing because it's literally the main reason we are voting chezinu
And actually now that I'm looking at your filter closer your main reasons for voting Rayn actually are that he's anti-town, not because of any other reasons. You make one post very early on that is an actual scumread, and then you just repeat later he's anti-town and that's why he should be lynched. Which makes your one actual scum read really only half of one.
I have no idea how much momentum it will bring and I have to finish writing this article for a travel agency, but I'm switching to Koshi.
1. Bad reasons for voting Rayn 2. Weird ass defense of slam 3. Wanting to completely sheep slam (even if he think he's town, why does he decide to sheep him when he's been active day 1 and night 1?) 4. Really bad defense of himself 5. Misrepresenting points and only responding to weak arguments until he gets called out by more people and forced to respond
On July 28 2019 04:00 Koshi wrote: I didnt have a single mafia read during d1 and n1. Proof me wrong.
if this is true it makes it worse for you, not better, considering you were very active throughout the thread
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
lynch me then.
Tou fuck.
You say " Koshi trows away all his reads blahblahblah"
I say " I didnt have readds"
You say"EVEN WORSE"
HAHHAHAHAGA
yeah you're right it's better than throwing away your scum reads.
but you're straight up lying if you think having no scum reads day1 and day2 is a good thing because it's literally the main reason we are voting chezinu
And actually now that I'm looking at your filter closer your main reasons for voting Rayn actually are that he's anti-town, not because of any other reasons. You make one post very early on that is an actual scumread, and then you just repeat later he's anti-town and that's why he should be lynched. Which makes your one actual scum read really only half of one.
I don't think the main reason anyone is lynching Chezinu is because he didn't have scumreads.
I don't know why anyone is voting chezinu other than the fact he's literally done nothing this game. town reads or scum reads
On July 28 2019 04:00 Koshi wrote: I didnt have a single mafia read during d1 and n1. Proof me wrong.
if this is true it makes it worse for you, not better, considering you were very active throughout the thread
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
lynch me then.
Tou fuck.
You say " Koshi trows away all his reads blahblahblah"
I say " I didnt have readds"
You say"EVEN WORSE"
HAHHAHAHAGA
yeah you're right it's better than throwing away your scum reads.
but you're straight up lying if you think having no scum reads day1 and day2 is a good thing because it's literally the main reason we are voting chezinu
And actually now that I'm looking at your filter closer your main reasons for voting Rayn actually are that he's anti-town, not because of any other reasons. You make one post very early on that is an actual scumread, and then you just repeat later he's anti-town and that's why he should be lynched. Which makes your one actual scum read really only half of one.
I don't think the main reason anyone is lynching Chezinu is because he didn't have scumreads.
On July 28 2019 04:34 NoSmurfHere wrote: No pandain I think we lynch chez because he's mafia, get all the poe info we can from today and we deny people credit for being on chez when he flips red. Its lose/lose for mafia.
What poe do you think we will find it he's mafia and what poe do you think we will find if he's town?
On July 28 2019 04:41 Holyflare wrote: If Chez is mafia I reckon Pandain is with him. Didn't like the past few pages at all. It's not particularly scummy to have no scum reads and sheeping Slam, who cares if he did? He said he was playing well and gave his vote to slam (but didn't even do that anyway?) but why is that scummy?
Seems to hop from one point to the next and everything is already with the conclusion Koshi is mafia rather than with an open mind.
The only time I would ever sheep someone is if 1. I'm extremely busy or 2. I have no idea what to do
and 3. I have huge trust that the player is both town and is very likely to be right on scum.
Maybe Slam is a god in Koshi's eyes, but I'm not sure that's really the case.
And I asked Koshi why he thought Slam was playing so well and he never responded to me
On July 28 2019 04:34 NoSmurfHere wrote: No pandain I think we lynch chez because he's mafia, get all the poe info we can from today and we deny people credit for being on chez when he flips red. Its lose/lose for mafia.
Don't you guys think Koshi is mafia though?
Yeah but as it is we're already lynching mafia so what's the point in switching? If koshi dies then good. He's being a pain in the ass as well as acting very scummy. If chez dies then also good because he's mafia. With the wagons the way they are there just isn't any point in switching from one scum to another and tying things up.
-J
That's a very assured 100% both are mafia world you're living in. Why was Koshi the first to switch to chez after me?
On July 28 2019 04:41 Holyflare wrote: If Chez is mafia I reckon Pandain is with him. Didn't like the past few pages at all. It's not particularly scummy to have no scum reads and sheeping Slam, who cares if he did? He said he was playing well and gave his vote to slam (but didn't even do that anyway?) but why is that scummy?
Seems to hop from one point to the next and everything is already with the conclusion Koshi is mafia rather than with an open mind.
The only time I would ever sheep someone is if 1. I'm extremely busy or 2. I have no idea what to do
and 3. I have huge trust that the player is both town and is very likely to be right on scum.
Maybe Slam is a god in Koshi's eyes, but I'm not sure that's really the case.
And I asked Koshi why he thought Slam was playing so well and he never responded to me
And neither the first two seemed the case for koshi
On July 28 2019 04:41 Holyflare wrote: If Chez is mafia I reckon Pandain is with him. Didn't like the past few pages at all. It's not particularly scummy to have no scum reads and sheeping Slam, who cares if he did? He said he was playing well and gave his vote to slam (but didn't even do that anyway?) but why is that scummy?
Seems to hop from one point to the next and everything is already with the conclusion Koshi is mafia rather than with an open mind.
The only time I would ever sheep someone is if 1. I'm extremely busy or 2. I have no idea what to do
and 3. I have huge trust that the player is both town and is very likely to be right on scum.
Maybe Slam is a god in Koshi's eyes, but I'm not sure that's really the case.
And I asked Koshi why he thought Slam was playing so well and he never responded to me
Obviously you != koshi though so why does the fact that you wouldn't sheep there scummy rather than suboptimal play?
Because when I say "I" I don't mean "only Pandain". I mean "the only sensible time one would sheep is"
On July 28 2019 04:41 Holyflare wrote: If Chez is mafia I reckon Pandain is with him. Didn't like the past few pages at all. It's not particularly scummy to have no scum reads and sheeping Slam, who cares if he did? He said he was playing well and gave his vote to slam (but didn't even do that anyway?) but why is that scummy?
Seems to hop from one point to the next and everything is already with the conclusion Koshi is mafia rather than with an open mind.
The only time I would ever sheep someone is if 1. I'm extremely busy or 2. I have no idea what to do
and 3. I have huge trust that the player is both town and is very likely to be right on scum.
Maybe Slam is a god in Koshi's eyes, but I'm not sure that's really the case.
And I asked Koshi why he thought Slam was playing so well and he never responded to me
Because he has the best analysis and reads in the game. That's why.
he completely misread the case against rayn and made a meta defense on rayn.
what else? plenty of other people didn't vote rayn
On July 28 2019 04:41 Holyflare wrote: If Chez is mafia I reckon Pandain is with him. Didn't like the past few pages at all. It's not particularly scummy to have no scum reads and sheeping Slam, who cares if he did? He said he was playing well and gave his vote to slam (but didn't even do that anyway?) but why is that scummy?
Seems to hop from one point to the next and everything is already with the conclusion Koshi is mafia rather than with an open mind.
The only time I would ever sheep someone is if 1. I'm extremely busy or 2. I have no idea what to do
and 3. I have huge trust that the player is both town and is very likely to be right on scum.
Maybe Slam is a god in Koshi's eyes, but I'm not sure that's really the case.
And I asked Koshi why he thought Slam was playing so well and he never responded to me
And neither the first two seemed the case for koshi
but you're still projecting your idea of why to sheep onto koshi
Did you ask koshi *why* he sheeped slam rather than asking the leading question of why he thinks slam is playing so well?
On July 28 2019 04:41 Holyflare wrote: If Chez is mafia I reckon Pandain is with him. Didn't like the past few pages at all. It's not particularly scummy to have no scum reads and sheeping Slam, who cares if he did? He said he was playing well and gave his vote to slam (but didn't even do that anyway?) but why is that scummy?
Seems to hop from one point to the next and everything is already with the conclusion Koshi is mafia rather than with an open mind.
The only time I would ever sheep someone is if 1. I'm extremely busy or 2. I have no idea what to do
and 3. I have huge trust that the player is both town and is very likely to be right on scum.
Maybe Slam is a god in Koshi's eyes, but I'm not sure that's really the case.
And I asked Koshi why he thought Slam was playing so well and he never responded to me
Because he has the best analysis and reads in the game. That's why.
he completely misread the case against rayn and made a meta defense on rayn.
what else? plenty of other people didn't vote rayn
He didn't misread anything and he defended rayn who flipped town. So that is already above par. He made multiple good posts. I cba to quote them though.
he completely misread everything and said that the only reason people were voting rayn was because he's "anti town", which was not the case at all except for you and jugs (jugs being a late voter anyway).
And he literally said twice on this day that he completely fucked up his read on rayn
On July 27 2019 04:31 Alakaslam wrote: I just read Rayn. I catastrophically misunderstood him.
On July 27 2019 04:11 Pandain wrote: Jock and HF seem fine so far. I'll admit I only read the first half of Jock/Bugs filter but they seemed town with their effort, responses, critical thinking, etc...
Don't like Slam's filter. Mainly for two reasons.
1. He completely lies/misrepresents what happened to Rayn day 1
On July 25 2019 02:49 Alakaslam wrote: From the look of things we lose Rayn.
Not good. He is a strong player.
Rayn when you return please just make cases in last bit don’t waste too much time on defense. There comes a point where people won’t change their minds, period.
Anyway, so people can make associations later:
My reason for believing Rayn to be town are mostly on meta. The case against him is basically that he is anti town because he is able to get angry. And not understand sarcasm. Basically.
Bad case. My reasons for scumreading the smurf is trying to shut me down, and a few other things but those are wifom. Not enough to vote on.
I vote him to save Rayn.
Absolutely terrible post. This was not at all the reason for voting Rayn at all. I know townie's can misunderstand stuff sometimes but Slam was active and responding to people the entire thread, I find it hard to believe he actually misread the dozens of actual posts on why Rayn could have been scum. It's more likely he's just TMI knowing rayn's alignment and not really reading those cases.
2. His vote on me
He's voting me because I'm "utterly forgetable" and literally no other reason. + Show Spoiler +
On July 26 2019 07:02 Eywa- wrote: Pandain is uderly forgettable, so it could be him.
Yup this is why he got my vote as well.
HF is a tough catch and I don’t like lynching him early because after about day 1 or sometimes 2 he is one of the most reliable towns who can carry a comeback.
On July 26 2019 07:15 Koshi wrote: Slam. Didnt we both thibk Pandain was town during the night? I'll follow your lead, it's just weird. 😁
Yes, but I was gut feeling that. In the context of HF filter I am more and more thinking Hf actually but Pandain was too damn forgettable.
Meanwhile, he actually scumreads HF and Chezinu but doesn't vote for them , HF for some bullshit "He's a vet" reason and Chezinu...for no reason. + Show Spoiler +
On July 26 2019 06:56 Alakaslam wrote: In all of HF, the confident active poster’s whopping 1.5 pages of filter, he seems to give the impression that scum outnumber the town roughly 3:1
Hell we might even be able to reverse POE with that
I’m actually totally down with both HF or Pandain after reading HF.
On July 26 2019 07:11 Tubesock wrote: FYI Slam often says he needs to die so town isn’t stuck with him lategame as he knows people can’t read him.
Secondly, saying both HF and Pandain may not be mafia probably has more to do with the reality that scumreads are often wrong. Not a lot of people have the same confidence that Eywa- was showing.
Do you actually have a preference right now between HF and Pandain or is everyone just gonna say they think they meet good lynches and then explain nothing?
I’d give it about 24 hours personally before I start considering killing either of them but I agree on principle that HF & Pandain are not bad leads, especially if all of Coag & FF & Chezinu are town (or even two out of three, which is fairly likely)
I want to see more opinions on this list of players:
FF Coag Chezinu HF Pandain
As at least with slam the opinions are already fairly polarized. In my case it’s just a conditional read.
-wherebugsgo
My way of reading HF is essentially he’s mafia until he proves himself town by doing something that makes life for mafia!HF harder for zero reason. But it requires time and I don’t mind giving him days because I know he’s busy. I also am not that afraid of a mafia HF running around though. He gets a lot of heat every game. Except this one, which to me is interesting.
My preference is Pandain (between him and HF). Although I still think you’re mafia but I’m willing to watch you work.
I personally am not giving HF much heat because
1. I read him correctly day 1 for two games in a row then started becoming paranoid when he did jack shit into terrible fake claim in the first game, so I led a wagon that killed him. Then he tunneled someone I thought was obvious town (and got him killed) in the second game and fake claimed again?? So HF’s play is erratic enough that I have no confidence in being able to read him properly atm.
2. He caught on the same thing I did with slam @ EoD
3. Engaging with HF is an easy way to pollute the thread.
As for Pandain, I’ve played with him twice (?) recently and by this point in the game he’s ordinarily posted a lot more, and everyone has already jumped on him to kill him, but I think I can read him well, especially when in that first game we played I was essentially the only person who correctly and confidently believed he was town.
This game he hasn’t done anything to indicate either alignment but the game in general is very slow.
What do you think of Coag and FF then?
-wherebugsgo
This excellently states why I am loth to lynch HF early even if he is my top scumread, which at the moment he is.
WNG/Jock either of you want to read his filter? It’s Hf but it is also short.
"HF is my top scumread" while he's voting me, rofl
On July 26 2019 13:28 Fecalfeast wrote: I'm gonna stop spamming the thread so ppl can catch up if anyone wants me to respond to anything I will but I'll try not to comment on every new post for a while https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkAVWqT2OJI
Oh god this made me feel so guilty. Sorry.... tried to consolidate a bit.
On July 26 2019 14:20 NoSmurfHere wrote:
On July 26 2019 14:17 Alakaslam wrote:
On July 26 2019 12:03 NoSmurfHere wrote:
On July 26 2019 11:34 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On July 25 2019 07:55 NoSmurfHere wrote: [quote]
I want to hear what others think of this post as it sticks out quite a lot especially in light of rayn’s flip.
The good news is that tomorrow morning we have a confirmed townie, so if you are rayn’s partner please do not claim until then.
I also want to hear from you, HF. For everyone else my assignment to you is to tell me your read of HF at this very moment.
Ok I don't like this post from slam at all. The whole part about "making associates later" reeks like TMI and this post is basically slam's way of distancing himself from the lynch so that he's on the right side of the vote that he knows will flip town. Aside from that, he literally admits his reasons for voting the hydra are terrible but he's saving rayn, I view this as scummy since it's hard for me to believe someone organically comes up with a townread so strong on D1 that they're willing to vote for someone else they don't think is scum in order to save them.
On July 25 2019 08:51 Tubesock wrote: I townreading FF and Alakaslam. I also townread Coagulation but it's softer.
Yeah Bugs I’ll scumread you for shutting down a player for posting 25 times in a row when it’s a very slow game. It wasn’t like anyone else was around, and You should know that Slam isn’t exactly a high post count player, so shutting him down hurts town. I doubt it took you anymore time to read those 25 posts than it would have if it was all in one.
I think the shade towards FF and Meap post flip are scummy.
Alright so I'm still leaning scum on FF, I think that the hydra makes a decent point here
I think the TMI argument on slam is actually very strong, and I have some meta reasons as well that I can go over if anyone cares to but I'm really interested as to where you're getting this townread from, could you elaborate more on that?
I disagree with the hydra scum read but coag is also a soft townread for me.
On July 25 2019 12:24 Vivax wrote: Looks like I forgot to unvote NSH and vote anything else yesterday really..
I think we can all agree that after that mislynch I don't really have to feel arsed to play. He was rather obvious town.
My advice is that you look into HF and pandain.
Was really hoping from more than this from you vivax, picking lurkers as your suspects is weaksauce.
On July 25 2019 17:30 Koshi wrote: [quote] This guy is town most likely. Going so hard against the consensus. Must be thinking aboit the game.
Koshi and Tube are definitely my strongest townreads.
On July 26 2019 06:47 Alakaslam wrote: What a short read.
He suspected Pandain and HF mostly. If he is killed this early, I tend to think he was on the right track.
See subsequent vote in vote thread. If folks want a counter wagon, it should be me I think so that my statements can warrant a reread when I am gone.
Because then y’all will realize: 1. I was town, and knew Rayn was too 2. That I was playing pretty carefully and pretty attentively 3. That though I couldn’t explain why, I was right on Rayn and am semi- likely to be right on other reads by EOD D2.
If Hf vs Pandain well idk I somehow feel they aren’t BOTH scum.
I think what I've highlighted red here sums up parts of my meta read on slam. Based on my memory, slam is absolutely not playing his usual self and he is aware of it and has tried to emulate that at times but it feels artificial. He is much too serious and, in his own words, careful compared to what town slam does.
On July 26 2019 07:09 Koshi wrote: 0% chance slam is mafia. If you think so you shoot up in my mafia list so high kites would be jealous.
On July 26 2019 07:10 Koshi wrote: I'll sheep slam even though I dont think Pandain is the best kill. But I dont know who is.
Ok you and Tube agreeing on this is enough to give me pause but I really would like to know what you think of some of the points I've brought up earlier in this post. I'm not going to just sheep either of you without some decent reasoning behind your thought process.
Alright I'm caught up and this is where I'm at. I think the TMI evidence, along with the meta/gut read I've got on slam is the strongest I've got right now. Going to go ahead and vote for him. FF is probably my second strongest read with a mix of Chez/Pandain/the dude who replaced in to round things out.
I don’t have a super strong read on Koshi but I also have tube as my strongest town read. I had Vivax as well but he got shot.
Jock was stronger on FF being scum than I was, but now I’ve come around. I think the opposite may have been true for slam but not sure, I think we are both in agreement that FF and slam look bad but will wait for Jock to come back in as there are things I want to discuss with him.
As for Tube saying that slam reading into why Vivax got shot and fingering HF & Pandain afterward is a fine reason for him to flip his townread, I think that’s a very weak argument.
First of all, slam’s response to me when I said “how are you so sure that HF is town here when even though I agree with HF I don’t have a read yet” was basically, cryptic TL;DR “because I know HF well”
Then if he knows HF well, he’d know that HF scum would likely never shoot Vivax on n1. Hell, he even made a jab at me because he thinks that is such a whacky kill that only someone with bad night kill skills would do such a thing. On top of that Vivax barely mentioned HF at all, just made one passing comment on both HF and Pandain to look into them. This is 100% not a reason to completely flip your read if you supposedly know HF well, because 1.) he was unlikely to shoot Vivax in the first place and 2.) even if he would shoot Vivax, HF is not such a weak scum player that he’d be worried about an offhand reference like that.
If anything it amplifies Vivax’s posts significantly when he was barely active yesterday and would backfire really badly.
i know I said I wouldn’t speculate further but I can’t resist. It smells more like a failed mason hunting attempt than anything else because scum are dumb
-wherebugsgo
Actually that wasn’t me, for what it’s worth.
I was referring to HF making the jab because HF thinks it’s a low skill move. You can read his gut reaction to the flip, I responded to it so I remember it exists somewhere.
I’m saying that since you apparently know HF so well it’s odd that you find the kill implicated him since the HF I know would not be very likely to kill Vivax unless he delegated the kill or it was a bad attempt at mason hunting, and if it were an attempt at mason hunting then the kill doesn’t implicate anyone because any scum would try that.
In other words there was no town-motivated reason for you to 180 your read that hard because presumably you’d know this already.
-wherebugsgo
You do know that
1. My vote is still on Pandain 2. That I read HF’s filter before changing my mind and encourage others to do the same
Right? Maybe not knowing this is forgivable.
1. So is HF your top scumread or not?
2. What exactly did you find in his filter that changed your mind despite the fact that you read the exact same posts on day 1 and used them to draw the conclusion that he is for sure town?
-wherebugsgo
K I guess, since I haven’t moved my vote, he isn’t. But should Pandain flip town he is. I don’t think they are both scum.
2. Have you read it? Do you actually read my posts?
I am not going to answer this because I believe my flipping town and being reread more seriously is pro-town.
Why does Pandain’s alignment have literally anything to do with HF? It doesn’t
Like you don’t actually answer anything, your conclusions make 0 sense.
If Pandain flips town HF is scum... because....? Unicorns? They can’t both be scum together, why? Why can’t they both be town??? Because I really just mostly think Pandain. But because HF had a nastyass filter which is getting better at least, but also someone on the Rayn train must be scum is something I think I only partly realized, not in a way I could put into words.
And if Pandain flips scum why is HF automatically town thereafter? because then I will have better understood the situation. I am being as confident as I can.
-wherebugsgo
Slam wrote the last thing in green. "nastyass filter" from HF
On July 25 2019 23:56 Chezinu wrote: It looks like there are at least two people that want me to address why I am so mafia. Well, you see the question asked is not a good one. For it is built upon an assumption that is false. In order to explain why I am so mafia, I would have to have a greater alignment to mafia than town. The "so" assumes that I have a greater amount of mafia than they thought should be my baseline. Here I am assuming the baseline to be brown, which would mean they think my color is tinted more red than green. Ryan asked what my color was before he left us. Now two individuals are trying to infer my color through their prejudice. They asked a question in a colorist why. They assumed my color without asking. You see Ryan asked about my color. These two assumed my color.. big difference.
Yes!
I ask you why you behave redly.
You know the way, you have returned from Colorado to the Sequoias!
But you are still at ground level at this post. I shall read thee, most excellent Russian American
On July 25 2019 13:45 Alakaslam wrote: Chezinu y u so mafia?
On July 27 2019 01:57 Branch.AUT wrote: I dislike the interaction between koshi, slam and HF. It seems to be aimed at making thread think only about pandain. When theres many other options to consider.
I did mention Chezinu is scummy but I like him too much in person to vote him yet
defense of chez here. honestly i keep people around sometimes too who i like even if i slightly scum read them, but only to a certain extent. In this case, there's two people who he scum reads way more than me (he's never actually scumread me) and two shitty reasons.
I think having a scum read on people and then refusing(indirectly or directly) to vote them is trademark mafia. In this case, Slam is doing it twice. I also don't like his characterizations of the rayn lynch which is complete lies/misrepresentations and sounds like a mafia trying to lecture town about how "obviously wrong" they were.
Good chance to be mafia
Please tell me what the case on Rayn was then? Because I don’t see it.
Six people voted Rayn. Six.
On July 23 2019 18:36 Holyflare wrote: I find it weird how you found me weird and haven't done anything about it in 40 mins though.
On July 23 2019 19:33 Holyflare wrote: ##Vote raynpelikoneet
Took you far too long to even accuse me of anything and it was shit.
On July 23 2019 19:34 Holyflare wrote: And on top of that you said I'm weird this game, did nothing, then wrote a case saying my initial posts were fine. So why were they originally cause for concern rayn?
On July 24 2019 03:43 Holyflare wrote:
On July 23 2019 19:44 raynpelikoneet wrote: Well w/e gonna write on phone. I found you weird vecause the post on pandain didnt sit well with me, neither did the vote on coag after. I thought you had read at öeast some posts when you started posting and if you believed someone actually died you didnt find me weird since i sure would have an opening different than what it was (if there indeed was a nk). Obvs an expllanation would be that you didnt read any posts, which is why i wanted a confirmation on why you actually voted for coag (basically you could give out you in fact rwad posts before you started oosting). Thats why i originally asked about your vote and nothing more.
I don't think there is anything to be said about Tubesock and i also think HF makes a fair point on coag.
On July 23 2019 19:19 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On July 23 2019 16:43 Holyflare wrote: Wut why is there a night 0?
On July 23 2019 16:50 Holyflare wrote: I can't even find anything about a n0 in the op what is going on?
On July 23 2019 16:50 Holyflare wrote: Palmar wasn't even in the game... Right... Carry on :D
On July 23 2019 16:51 Holyflare wrote: Personally I blame Pandain for looking similar to Palmar. I hope you'll take responsibility for this.
Now this is fine i think. Holyflare doesn't read the OP, sees Pandain dying during N0 (because of the green part, i can't even imagine what that would otherwise mean), then realises "shit it's not pandain it's palmar, lol palmar is not even in the game".
Fine, this however doesn't make any sense at all:
On July 23 2019 18:36 Holyflare wrote: I was honestly gonna go into a rant about how shit this game was for having a n0 and how I was confirmed town because I'd never shoot palmar and then I'd already formulated a list of suspects of coag, mz, chez, bugs, possibly you but here we are. I'm still confirmed town though
So AFTER Holyflare realises it's not in fact pandain but palmar who "died" he forms a list of possible candidates. I don't think this makes any sense because either at this point he thinks it was not palmar but pandain or he has already figured out the whole nk doesnt even make any sense.
Can you explain to me how you can make all the red statements together? How can you dislike me for the posts on pandain/palmar and the vote on coag but then say my posts on pandain look fine in your case on me and afterwards say that voting coag is good? Just so you know, I think you're mafia still.
On July 24 2019 03:56 Holyflare wrote: This is the timeline:
The problem with this case is that it says you are FINE with my Pandain posts after having literally just said in 104 how weird my Pandain posts were! You THEN scum read me for the rant bit (clear misunderstanding, fine, but the first point still stands).
8. Rayn rants at Koshi and says HF makes fair point about Coag 123
There is conflicting info here. Point 3 contradicts point 5 (where you say you are FINE with my Pandain posts) and point 3 also contradicts point 8 where you agree with the Coag points!!
So, you either lied about the Coag and Pandain points making me "weird" since you say you LIKED them in both your case and your rant at Koshi or you've been caught out.
Either way, I'm actually voting you now and implore everyone else to do the same.
##vote raynpelikoneet
On July 24 2019 17:40 Pandain wrote:
On July 24 2019 17:33 Koshi wrote: We paid our honours 10 seconds apart from each other Pandain! Are you town too?
Still hits me hard
My activity today is going to be really low, I apologize. I'm not going to be final on Rayn yet obviously, but the hydra has been far from inactive this game and the scumread on jock because "He's afraid to post" is bad for two reasons: 1. He's been posting a lot 2. He's doing a scumread meta based on his one scum game that was his first game on this site about five months ago or so.
I think it's just really lazy and weak arguments and I don't know how he actually believes them.
On July 24 2019 14:05 Koshi wrote: rayn mafia: 1) He doesnt clearly enough explain why the people he calls mafia are mafia. 2) Expresses his mafia read on me too confidently.
You have seven pages of filter. You've been constantly active. I refuse to believe you somehow missed all of these posts as town. Instead it's much more likely you were skimming any points on rayn because you know he's town and so never took those cases seriously.
Bullshit, all that is hot air as you will soon see.
But anyway, I have been catastrophically wrong because I misremembered Rayn.
My advice: Koshi has been saying I am badass and has been too impressed by what is actually intentionally scummy play. And the dead hate him (Rayn) not !Pandian.
Also, FF has had me making jabs here and there but I figured I can’t be seeing too many scum.
Watch Chezinu. The Brown must actually do something to be brown. Otherwise this happens
That is all, this game was strangely satisfying but I have definitely had enough.
like everything that's come out of your mouth koshi is lies, misrepresentations, or just wrong. so what are you even defending now?
On July 28 2019 04:18 Pandain wrote: I have no idea how much momentum it will bring and I have to finish writing this article for a travel agency, but I'm switching to Koshi.
1. Bad reasons for voting Rayn 2. Weird ass defense of slam 3. Wanting to completely sheep slam (even if he think he's town, why does he decide to sheep him when he's been active day 1 and night 1?) 4. Really bad defense of himself 5. Misrepresenting points and only responding to weak arguments until he gets called out by more people and forced to respond
FF you can read my reasons for voting koshi here.
You can say its suboptimal. I say it's just purely illogical and weird and that's why I think it's scummy
On July 27 2019 07:17 Tubesock wrote: My question marks are NSH, HF, Eywa, Chezinu, Eversince. I should add Coag too.
Anyone want to talk about any of them? I leave in 30 minutes but can phone post a little later tonight and tomorrow morning before the lynch.
There is host wifom in the Branch slot that was once Coagulation
Hf Eywa town Eversince hasn’t been able to chime in enough or likely scum NSH watch Chezinu probably scum but possibly annoyed with you for not understanding how timelessly important your Survivor reference was (or perhaps, for knowing full well what strings you were pulling)
Just look at it. This is from early D2. How fucking good :D
On July 28 2019 04:59 Branch.AUT wrote: Cutting it very close to deadline here. I dislike this Chezinu Lynch sinze it's 8/11 just bad. Voting him anyway because of town
On July 28 2019 04:59 Branch.AUT wrote: Cutting it very close to deadline here. I dislike this Chezinu Lynch sinze it's 8/11 just bad. Voting him anyway because of town
Can you explain why you have expressed that you find Koshi suspicious and want to vote for the hydra but instead of making the wagon on Koshi basically the same size as the Chezinu one you joined BOTH your scum read and suspicious Koshi to make Chezinu more in the lead?
The hydra is my scum read. If you want to know why check my filter, it's the main thing there.
Koshis behaviour is suspicious because of poor reasoning and my perception of him sowing distrust in thread, and escalating emotionally. He flips around between sheeping slam and providing reads only after admitting he doesn't read the thread. This is suspicious but not lynch worthy.
I voted Chezinu mainly because he had the highest votecount when I managed to get to a computer, and had not finished catching up on the thread prior to deadline.
What had you read when you came back into the thread and voted?
Why did you vote Chezinu because he had the highest votecount?
@HF
If Chezinu had flipped vanilla town, how would the game have been closer to solving?
Branch actually looks bad but for reasons outside of his vote. I don't think the vote is necessarily more scummy than it is NAI. Even if the vote is scummy, it's only true if Koshi is scum first.
On July 30 2019 18:45 Holyflare wrote: If you think I'm anything but town now, Pandain, I don't know what to tell you. I've already explained I was trying to make a parity cop play.
Your play is townie and I'm nowhere near lynching you, but after what happened with Rayn last game I'm giving anyone with a lot of experience a more reserved judgment before any "definitely townie" reads.
I don't get it. So if Chezinu was town you would ...what?
I don't think I'm going to change but I could switch to Branch too. But at this point I just want to see what happens. If it ends up somethign like Koshi + HF I would go crazy if we never lynched one of them while they keep living.
I mean I don't think the eywa case is bad per se. It's exactly why I thought she was scum last game. Problem is she was town that game and she's not doing anything different this game
On July 31 2019 06:17 Koshi wrote: I admit I havent read a single sentence of Branch and MZ. But that being said. These are mafia:
Eywa. No fire d3. Big contrast compared with d1. Which I assume was only a splinter compared to his town play. Rip splinter rayn.
Pandain. Was happy after d2 lynch. Called him out. He defended with denieing it.
HF. Because is actually a good player that doesnt survive double night 3 kills.
this is actually all such bullshit. who said I was happy after day2? this is a complete lie. you get away with it in this game because there are people who can't read the thread so they just believe what you say without crosschecking it.
And how do you know HF will survive double night kill unless both you and him are mafia??
And Eywa is no different on this day than during day 1 so that's another huge lie.
but lucky for you you buddied up to slam enough that he's always gonna think you're town until game is over, even as we lynch town after town after town
On July 31 2019 05:40 Pandain wrote: HF and koshi both prob mafia unfortunately
Why are they even alive with vivax and tubesock dead.
And hf had been "suspicious" of koshi for two straight days but never even been close to voting him despite repeatedly calling him out
What have you even done this game? O.o
what have you even done besides lynch town
all you do is say stupid one liner's and stuff like "I don't argue with scum" "he's so obvious mafia" "teamliquid can't play good towns"
Meanwhile this game, like every single one of your games you keep being wrong and wrong and wrong again. And yet do you ever change your tone? every say "damn, guess i misread that"?
you got lucky literally one time with ES last game and now you think you're a god or something.
you are either scum or just a giant asshole. maybe not exclusive.
Especially if HF doesn't die tonight imo he's just 100% scum. I know scum can mindgame that but it's just simply what I believe, especially when you combine him with his refusal to ever seriously consider lynching his scumread koshi.
And at this point I think anyone not voting for Koshi is possible scum. That's Holyflare, Eywa, Eversince, Nosmurfhere, Alakaslam, and Koshi.
Hydra and Slam are town imo. That leaves last four scum within HF, Eywa, Eversince, and Koshi. ES is playing completely different than both her town and mafia game, so that's sort of a wildball there. Eywa could easily be scum. If HF lives he's definitely scum imo.
Actually Koshi's "how does HF survive double night kills night three, he must be mafia" is such a huge scumslip. Maybe makes HF town if I think about it now, maybe trying to set up a lynch. not sure,
On July 31 2019 07:45 Koshi wrote: Really. You fucked up Pandain. Hilarious how youvtried to spin that scumslip into townreading HF and not scumreading us both 😁
Just shoot me tonight koshi. Please be done with me.
For anyone who needs a response to this btw it's obvious it could be one of two scenarios
1. Koshi and HF are both mafia so koshi knows HF won't die 2.koshi is mafia and HF town but suck team already knows who they will shoot and it's not HF
But koshi like always is trying to find stupid reasons to scum read someone.
And me commenting on how ridiculous it is that parity cops have been killed early five games a row does not count as being "joyful" but good try
On July 31 2019 07:21 Pandain wrote: Especially if HF doesn't die tonight imo he's just 100% scum. I know scum can mindgame that but it's just simply what I believe, especially when you combine him with his refusal to ever seriously consider lynching his scumread koshi.
And at this point I think anyone not voting for Koshi is possible scum. That's Holyflare, Eywa, Eversince, Nosmurfhere, Alakaslam, and Koshi.
Hydra and Slam are town imo. That leaves last four scum within HF, Eywa, Eversince, and Koshi. ES is playing completely different than both her town and mafia game, so that's sort of a wildball there. Eywa could easily be scum. If HF lives he's definitely scum imo.
On July 31 2019 07:45 Koshi wrote: Really. You fucked up Pandain. Hilarious how youvtried to spin that scumslip into townreading HF and not scumreading us both 😁
Just shoot me tonight koshi. Please be done with me.
For anyone who needs a response to this btw it's obvious it could be one of two scenarios
1. Koshi and HF are both mafia so koshi knows HF won't die 2.koshi is mafia and HF town but suck team already knows who they will shoot and it's not HF
But koshi like always is trying to find stupid reasons to scum read someone.
And me commenting on how ridiculous it is that parity cops have been killed early five games a row does not count as being "joyful" but good try
scum team*
And in either of the scenarios Koshi is mafia. They're just no way around this scumslip.
On July 31 2019 11:42 Alakaslam wrote: So yes, huge difference. I was actually around for you long time ago. Like 2011 stuff, I wasn’t even Alakaslam yet but I just obsed game’s.
I used to be way more of a raging shitter and damn I am regretful for all of the things I said back then.
I think I’m chiller and talk way more now but the games are actually more painful IMO
-wherebugsgo
I remember during the last mafia game I re-read one of your past games from like pre-2013.
Vote Koshi for: 1. Weird, illogical, super town-bus of Slam which he never explained 2. Continually blatantly misconstruing, misrepresenting, outright lying 3. Shitty reasons for voting rayn 4. Scumslip where he talked about HF being mafia because he will survive n3 double night kills. Not stated as a "if this happens", stated as a "yeah HF is mafia because he survived the double night kill". huge scum slip, obvious scum changed it here.
slam kill is weird but honestly he was the towniest one here. why hydra not shot though?
The thing that is throwing me for a loop right now is that Pandain has hard afked this game, especially now. For that alone he deserves to die as he actually won the game for town last time I saw him play during the last cycle of the game (though there was only 1 scum to kill) His play here on activity alone is very different.
-wherebugsgo
Nearly every game I've ever played in my mafia career I've been very active (either as scum or town). This is the first game where I've literally had nearly no time.
When I'm here, I don't think I'm unproductive and I think my filter has plenty of stuff for you to make a decision on alignment. You're right that I'm not pushing so much, but it's honestly because I feel uncomfortable making decisions like "MZ must be mafia!" or "branch must be mafia!" when I've literally read them for like 5-10 minutes. This is the one game I'm relying on townies to help me by quoting cases or other stuff
But honestly at this point if even one townie vote is on a townie, mafia wins (assuming they're not afk). So we should just stay on MZ. IF he's scum great. If he's not, well at least the game is over
Please let us know if you notice any mistakes! The deadline is Wednesday, Jul 24 8:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00), which is in
Who is left? Koshi, Eywa, Jugs, and ES. Two of these are mafia. This shows that at least 2, and possibly three people voted for Rayn and that only town voted for Jugs day 1.
On July 28 2019 05:01 Grackaroni wrote: Day Two VoteCount
If mafia is just one person below everyone else, their only goal is to be setting up for a mislynch. This means kill anyone on to them, and leave people who think they are town.
It's why I'm pretty much never going to vote Koshi because he was pretty much the obvious lynch yesterday in the beginning following FF getting lynched.
It's obvious I have not been following this game closely.
But it's also clear to me that with how weird all these night kills have been that there's something that we are all missing. I think also the TS makes absolutely no sense (who stated he will "tunnel hydra until I die") assuming that town Koshi, HF, and a bunch of other active players were still in the game.
I won't be surprised if I get lynched because of how AFK I am, but I haven't done anything scummy except be AFK. I have been working for around 15 hours every single day the past week or so, and even now I don't have a lot of time to contribute to things. I apologize for that.
But right now my vote is going to stay on Jugs. Just through briefly skimming the past few pages it seems like the ES lynch is too easy a setup.
I'm just going to now trust in the collective wisdom of past townies, and the fact I believe that no scum has ever voted for Jugs (even though he has been a serious lynch candidate three consecutive times in a row). The TS lynch makes no sense, and the night kills make no sense unless we are missing something. But Jugs being mafia explains that.
Why would you think mafia are trying to snipe the mason day 1 or day 2? Sure it's possible, but it's also possible they're trying to shoot people who are on the right track, or genuinely looked in as town, or trying to mindgame people, etc...
Given what I wrote above, that it's not at all a guarantee that mafia would try to find the mason, do you think my posts amount to a "scum claim"? What do you think I have done that is scummy besides being AFK (which I understand).
Despite the ending, every townie (Except ES?) was pretty much also 100% certain I was scum by the last day cycle, so I really just view this as getting wrong on Eywa vs. ES.
The first vivax kill, I don't remember why exactly we did it but I remember us talking that there was pretty much no one we needed to kill. So it was basically RNG. Then TS was making absolutely amazing point even though he was wrong on hydra, so we decided to kill him
On August 06 2019 05:05 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Fuck playing scum. Although this was my first ever mafia win.
GG all.
Yeah playing town is way more enjoyable imo. If I was town I definitely would still not have been super active, but I definitely would have posted more. As scum, I was afraid my lack of reading would cause me to make a really bad post and then that brings suspicion upon me.
As town that definitely might have happened, but I wouldn't have cared because I was town.
@Branch, I was 100% afk during that night kill but Eywa posted that you were pretty much close to confirmed town at that point. I think it was a huge mistake also leaving bugs alive n3, we probably should have shot him N3 or as soon as he posted the QT.
At one point we had the option to leave the remaining people at: 1. Branch 2. Slam 3. Eywa 4. MZ 5. Pandain 6. ES 7. Koshi
With how people were distusting Koshi, I don't think we ever lose that.
EPT
