Cupid's Arrow Mafia

On July 24 2019 13:58 Holyflare wrote:
When do the quality posts start, Koshi?

On July 24 2019 17:07 NoSmurfHere wrote:
OK we're both leaning town on eywa. FF probably too.

Koshi even though your first post was horrible I'm totally down with what you're saying about eywa being the most sensible poster so far so I'm happy to put that to the back of my mind.

To me, this eywa looks exactly like town eywa I've seen in other games, so yeah, no doubt.

Are you just sheeping eywa or do you have any thoughts of your own/stuff you think I should look at?

On July 25 2019 00:21 Tubesock wrote:
Meap



This was 21 hours ago. So, basically first half of the cycle. This is after he said no reads posts until deliberating with Bugs.

This entire post is fluff. Did anyone like Koshi's first post? I doubt anyone say any redeeming value in it either. You can say that about almost everyone in the game for most games. So that's a nothingburger.

He didn't like how HF tried to dumbclaim his way to town, but then eosn't arrive anywhere with it. It's convoluted for mafia but in HF's mafia range. Ok, that's a nothingburger statement too.

Vivax - nothingburger, well he said it best. Saying V is a nothingburger leaves the rest of us with nothing. It would have at least said something if Jock then said Vivax being a nothingburger is most likely mafia. That would be substantial, and useful for town.

Coag - of course scumclaims suck. He got heat for it immediately too. So this is a useless comment from town.

FF - dunno. More nothingburger. Why not have a line about Chezinu and Alakaslam? They both are most likely similiar as in complete tossups. Why include FF? Feels like it's easier to later throw shade on FF than succomb to the law of Brown or Chupazi.

Eywa - quickly scumreading someone isn't scummy. But apparently it is for Jock, so why isn't HF scumread too?

rayn - he just finished a shitfight and has no read??? From the tone I would think he would scumread him. That isn't neccessarily scummy, but yet another player listed with zero information for town.

This entire post is fluffy fluff. What is the purpose of it? To give town his reactions? How did any of them help town?

On July 25 2019 00:04 Eywa- wrote:

I agree with all of your points and none of those make him scum. I think Rayn started the game very opportunistically, then transitioned to a lot more of a defensive game. Yes, some of that is reaction to pressure being applied to him, but this is his scum game, I'm very confident.

Also, if I'm drinking as town, I'm more likely to rant (incoherently) about people not voting for my target than I am to just come in to say "fuck you" repeatedly in as many posts as possible.

On July 24 2019 23:58 Vivax wrote:


You type it like scumreading rayn is a scummy thing to do while not townreading him.

Scummy.

On July 25 2019 07:38 Alakaslam wrote:
Still no one suspects me when I have perfect information, but I have the towncred of a weasel.

Koshi you hear my logic, do you not brother?

On July 25 2019 08:51 Tubesock wrote:
I townreading FF and Alakaslam. I also townread Coagulation but it's softer.

Yeah Bugs I’ll scumread you for shutting down a player for posting 25 times in a row when it’s a very slow game. It wasn’t like anyone else was around, and You should know that Slam isn’t exactly a high post count player, so shutting him down hurts town. I doubt it took you anymore time to read those 25 posts than it would have if it was all in one.

I think the shade towards FF and Meap post flip are scummy.

On July 25 2019 13:45 Alakaslam wrote:
Chezinu y u so mafia?

On July 25 2019 17:35 Vivax wrote:
Don't see what makes MZ mafia, care to elaborate anyone who's scumreading him?

On July 25 2019 19:36 Vivax wrote:


Nah, he doesn't seem so overexplainy to me. His reads on me and bugs weren't even explained.

The fact he went after Coag gives him town points. Let's say Coag is town and you see him fakeclaiming scum. Do you give a shit about such a thing when you're mafia? At least I know I don't. If Coag is mafia scum has no interest in talking about it either.

On July 26 2019 07:12 Tubesock wrote:


I’m starting to like you.

On July 26 2019 09:41 Tubesock wrote:


1. NoSmurfHere
2. Pandain?????

I don't think Meap is scum. I didn't mind anything he wrote. Like his thing on HF was true. It doesn't make HF scum though cause well HF messes up details pretty often as town. And as HF correctly pointed it, it didn't really matter (this concerns the timeline of his Palmar/Pandain confusion). Also, I'm super distrusting of Eywa- right now, and she went hogwild on meap is scum after his first and only post in the game. So, hahaha as terrible as it seems, meap gets town points for that.

I want to flesh out why everyone (including myself) thinks Ewya- is town. For me it was just her zeal. But I have pretty much disagreed on everything she has said except one thing that was minor and I can't remember it.

On July 26 2019 09:46 Fecalfeast wrote:
pandain can die but I have no original thoughts on him. His weak shade on rayn now that rayn flipped town is b,eh but that's not terrible

On July 26 2019 12:36 Fecalfeast wrote:
Let's unpack this.



"We talk privately and I’ve asked him to focus on reading you"

You've been talking privately with jock and I assume that you mean you've talked about the game and your respective reads. You asked him to focus on reading me, cool, since you speak privately he would likely tell you what he thinks of me and why.

"Now I see exactly why he thinks you’re scum and that post alone really stood out to me."

So, going off what you said in the previous sentence, you've been in contact and you asked him to specifically look at me. You say here you now see why he scumreads me.

Was he confusing when he spoke to you privately about his read on me? Did you disagree with his reads? I made a post expressing paranoia that my top townread could be tricking me and now it all comes together and he really made a lot of sense?

Try harder scum

On July 26 2019 14:22 Alakaslam wrote:

Actually it fits with Chezinu scumplay. I suspect him, HF more if Pandain flopped green.

I don’t expect us to see that yet. I expect to flip and I’m fine with that.

On July 26 2019 17:24 Holyflare wrote:


This post literally just says this could be chenizu as mafia and sets up more candidates should his second scum read (remember I'm first) flip green. No need to raise slam on a pedestal for pointing out something very obvious.

This also disregards entirely what he was already thinking. Why would I be mafia simply by virtue of pandain flipping green??? He thinks I'm already mafia and pandain's alignment should have nothing to do with that.

On July 26 2019 17:33 Holyflare wrote:


When on earth have I ever said slam is clear town? Wtf?

And, no, it's not a decent post. Explain why just haphazardly calling chezinu and myself more likely mafia if pandain flips town is a good post.

What logic is slam using here that's good? What correlation does pandain have to mine or chezinu's alignment?

Not only does it NOT have a correlation but the original question of the chain was WHY does chezinu make this post and slam's answer was that he could be mafia.

Why does he intertwine pandain and myself into his scum read of chezinu here and why is chezinu only more mafia if pandain is green when he thinks chezinu is now mafia to begin with?

On July 26 2019 17:46 Holyflare wrote:
Slam, which people on the rayn wagon d1 went voting for him based on 0 cases?

On July 26 2019 18:03 Holyflare wrote:


I mean this literally doesn't answer anything nor does it explain why it's a good post for you but let's move on and I'll wait for slam's answer to my other question.

On July 25 2019 12:24 Vivax wrote:
Looks like I forgot to unvote NSH and vote anything else yesterday really..

I think we can all agree that after that mislynch I don't really have to feel arsed to play. He was rather obvious town.

My advice is that you look into HF and pandain.

On July 26 2019 17:21 Koshi wrote:
Eywa
Pandain
Chezinu
HF

4 good mafia candidates. There are some close to these but these are doing bad atm.

On July 26 2019 06:47 Alakaslam wrote:
What a short read.

He suspected Pandain and HF mostly. If he is killed this early, I tend to think he was on the right track.

See subsequent vote in vote thread. If folks want a counter wagon, it should be me I think so that my statements can warrant a reread when I am gone.

Because then y’all will realize:
1. I was town, and knew Rayn was too
2. That I was playing pretty carefully and pretty attentively
3. That though I couldn’t explain why, I was right on Rayn and am semi- likely to be right on other reads by EOD D2.

If Hf vs Pandain well idk I somehow feel they aren’t BOTH scum.

On July 26 2019 07:40 Alakaslam wrote:

This excellently states why I am loth to lynch HF early even if he is my top scumread, which at the moment he is.

WNG/Jock either of you want to read his filter? It’s Hf but it is also short.

On July 26 2019 14:22 Alakaslam wrote:

Actually it fits with Chezinu scumplay. I suspect him.
HF more if Pandain flopped green.

I don’t expect us to see that yet. I expect to flip and I’m fine with that.

On July 26 2019 18:30 Koshi wrote:
Anyway. Most likely scenario is that:

Scum!HF sees that Slam has him as his top scumread. Scum!HF attacks Slam over a comma.

On July 26 2019 18:31 Holyflare wrote:
This is even blown way out of proportion. I'm not voting slam, nor have I said he is conclusively mafia (you thought i thought he was town even) I've said pandain's filter is bad and is probably mafia (who slam is voting) but when somebody looks suspicious (pandain) really clearly so and another player (slam) is ALREADY putting qualifiers on his lynch about myself or chezinu being more scummy based on pandain's flip if he's town them I'm going to make all of those enquiries because I'm town and it looks really fucking bad to say.

On July 27 2019 01:18 Fecalfeast wrote:
Also about to scumclaim again real quick

If I just named the scumteam here I'm quitting playing and only hosting forever

On July 27 2019 01:57 Branch.AUT wrote:
I dislike the interaction between koshi, slam and HF. It seems to be aimed at making thread think only about pandain. When theres many other options to consider.

On July 27 2019 17:29 NoSmurfHere wrote:


I’m good with killing Chezinu too but I think Jock finds him unreadable.

I moved Koshi off my watchlist and onto my kill list. Moved eywa into my watchlist, but the activity drop was expected as eywa mentioned it. I think I’m fine with punting both HF and Pandain to tomorrow and neither of them will die today, that seems for sure. I think I move FF to watchlist as well, that one I’m not sure about...I have plenty of reasons I wanna kill FF but again some tone-wise good posts even if I think the content is bad.

Here’s my lists in no particular order

Kill:

Koshi
Slam
Chezinu

Watch:

FF
Eywa

Everyone else: tentatively townreading

Dead game

-wherebugsgo

On July 27 2019 19:12 Branch.AUT wrote:

Hi koshi.
Lets talk about HF. What makes you scum read him? Im still undecided on his alignment

On July 27 2019 19:23 Eversince wrote:
It's only shade if it's not true Koshi. Otherwise it's just true.. When was the last time trying to talk civilly was a bad thing? Right after you said Rayn deserved to die for blowing up temper.

On July 27 2019 19:23 Eversince wrote:
It's only shade if it's not true Koshi. Otherwise it's just true.. When was the last time trying to talk civilly was a bad thing? Right after you said Rayn deserved to die for blowing up temper.

On July 27 2019 19:39 Eversince wrote:
@ Koshi

Note that I was fine between Slam/Koshi/Chez/Pandain.

Slam isn't my top choice here because if Slam is t!Slam martyr, we mislynch 1 time finding 3 scum we lost.

I pointed out my read in it because it was asked for -.-

On July 27 2019 22:29 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:

I absolutely hate his martyr and that's from someone who's done it before. Imo you martyr as town when there's like 6 hours left in the day and you have no hope of getting saved so you self vote to spawn discussion about the next day's vote. Slam on the other hand self voted with like 24 hours left and hardly a vote lead which to me says he's trying to appeal to emotion (and it seems to be working).

The case on Koshi is not bad though, I just feel like we're moving from a like 95% chance to a 75% chance at hitting scum.

On July 27 2019 22:43 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:

Go read the end of the world mafia if you want to see what I'm talking about. I got lynched like D4 or something and just stopped fighting it in the last couple hours so we could move on and talk about other shit.

This preemptive 24 hours early martyr is just ridiculous. And yours is not any better by the way Mr. "I'm fine with Dying today." If you're town, start giving a fuck and play.

On July 27 2019 22:54 NoSmurfHere wrote:


So you are taking your vote off chezinu, who you scumread, to vote with for us, who you townread, who chezinu is also voting for?

On July 27 2019 23:52 Holyflare wrote:
Don't lynch koshi jesus christ.

On July 28 2019 00:10 Holyflare wrote:
you just arbitrarily throw me in every mafia list every game in the hopes you're right one day koshi, it's fine to admit

also Eywa is a he I'm pretty sure:

On July 28 2019 00:14 NoSmurfHere wrote:


...????

If we’re all town then where are the mafia and why aren’t you voting them?

Like you see tube tunneling us to oblivion and you join the wagon instead of bringing people together LOL

And speak nothing of the fact that the newbie replacement is voting us but you’re not calling him pants on head.

Come on Koshi you can’t be this obv scum right?

-wherebugsgo

On July 28 2019 00:14 Holyflare wrote:
I don't really care bugs, you can push Koshi all you want for content but that's not particularly how you read Koshi. It's more of a tone thing and what he seems to care about, which is people being stupid and doing stupid things in his world view of alignments.

I am going to vote Chezinu because even though I haven't read his filter he is very very bland and hasn't done anything productive or sneaky in any way whatsoever and is just surviving.

##vote chezinu

On July 28 2019 00:16 Holyflare wrote:
A Chezinu lynch gets rid of a giant question mark who always just plays for himself rather than actually helping which people somehow find endearing but I don't really understand it nor agree with it. That enables the night kills to play out and give us a better view of if someone in the vets is actually mafia because they are then forced to shoot into me/koshi/bugs etc and we can see what happens from there.

On July 27 2019 19:13 Koshi wrote:
Oh I opened Eversince her filter.
That's already 5.

Doesnt matter.

Maybe I shouldnt have attzcked Holyflare and tried to work with him and try to solve the game. Maybe.


Town doesnt work together anymore. Though this way.

rayn deserved to die for his shit.
Imo next should be somebody who hides his alignment like Chez but w.e.
Baddies or mafia in control so we will lynch an active who annoyed a baddie.

On July 27 2019 01:12 Koshi wrote:
##unvote
##vote Chezinu

Meh. I think most of you deserve to be alive tomorrow.

Chezinu
Eywa
Pandain in that order should be top lynches today.

On July 28 2019 02:19 Pandain wrote:
that hard defense of slam by koshi is really, really bad.

like he's even saying "I'll sheep you" when Koshi has been independently thinking about reads, coming to conclusions, having his own scum reads, etc... (i.e. no reason to sheep which is normally when you're uncertain/no time)

On July 28 2019 03:09 Koshi wrote:
Pandain and Hydra unwilling to lynch Chezinu. Doesnt make chezinu anything but it is curious.

On July 28 2019 03:10 Koshi wrote:
Pandain
Hydra
Eversince
Chezinu

There.

On July 28 2019 03:14 Fecalfeast wrote:
I like the list but why does eversince spew rayn' apparent eywa crumb? Just for the cred remove a possible lynch?

On July 28 2019 03:51 Pandain wrote:


respond to this.
how am I unwililng to vote for chez?

why did you randomly decide to throw away all your independant thoughts and ideas and to randomly sheep slam?

On July 28 2019 03:53 Holyflare wrote:
He's not wrong koshi why did you say they were unwilling to vote chez with votes already on him?

On July 28 2019 03:54 Koshi wrote:

I doubt that ever happened.

On July 28 2019 03:56 Pandain wrote:


Completely wrong. It wasn't early on.

You played all of day 1. Then early day 2 you decided to throw away all your reads and say "I'll just sleep slam"

I'm pushing you to explain why you thought this was logical.
Even if you think slam was town, did you trust him more than your own reads?

On July 28 2019 03:58 Pandain wrote:


It's not like you ever said you felt too busy to play or uncertain about the game. you just threw away your reads at that point and said (twice) you'll sheep slam

On July 28 2019 04:00 Pandain wrote:


if this is true it makes it worse for you, not better, considering you were very active throughout the thread

On July 28 2019 04:00 Pandain wrote:


if this is true it makes it worse for you, not better, considering you were very active throughout the thread

On July 28 2019 04:06 NoSmurfHere wrote:


Are you going to talk about everyone that did this,or just select the people that you already wanted to talk about?

-J

On July 28 2019 04:36 Eversince wrote:
I think Koshi is the better lynch. I know you said we get info from Chez but I must be dense because it only implicates Slam then? and when I vote Chez it didn't matter. Personally I am fine with either one going.

On July 28 2019 04:41 NoSmurfHere wrote:


Yeah but as it is we're already lynching mafia so what's the point in switching?
If koshi dies then good. He's being a pain in the ass as well as acting very scummy. If chez dies then also good because he's mafia.
With the wagons the way they are there just isn't any point in switching from one scum to another and tying things up.

-J

On July 28 2019 03:10 Koshi wrote:
Pandain
Hydra
Eversince
Chezinu

There.

On July 28 2019 04:43 Pandain wrote:


The only time I would ever sheep someone is if
1. I'm extremely busy or
2. I have no idea what to do

and
3. I have huge trust that the player is both town and is very likely to be right on scum.

Maybe Slam is a god in Koshi's eyes, but I'm not sure that's really the case.

And I asked Koshi why he thought Slam was playing so well and he never responded to me

On July 28 2019 04:47 Pandain wrote:


he completely misread the case against rayn and made a meta defense on rayn.

what else? plenty of other people didn't vote rayn

On July 28 2019 04:48 Eversince wrote:
Adding to that Koshi never answered how he came up with his reads when I asked him about them either.

On July 28 2019 04:50 Holyflare wrote:
Very interested to hear Koshi's answer and hope it's a legit answer and not some deflection.

Please.

On July 27 2019 07:23 Alakaslam wrote:

There is host wifom in the Branch slot that was once Coagulation

Hf Eywa town
Eversince hasn’t been able to chime in enough or likely scum
NSH watch
Chezinu probably scum but possibly annoyed with you for not understanding how timelessly important your Survivor reference was (or perhaps, for knowing full well what strings you were pulling)

On July 28 2019 04:55 Eversince wrote:


I think these people are scum because it makes sense from PoE, not that they've done scummy thing - Koshi 2019

On July 28 2019 04:58 Holyflare wrote:


Interesting.

On July 28 2019 04:59 Branch.AUT wrote:
Cutting it very close to deadline here.
I dislike this Chezinu Lynch sinze it's 8/11 just bad. Voting him anyway because of town

On July 28 2019 05:00 Holyflare wrote:


Dude has you as suspicious and hasn't said a word about Chez and ninja votes him right at deadline. Very suspicious imo.

On July 28 2019 05:09 Pandain wrote:
In retrospect now it makes sense why Chez was absolutely useless. he was trying to not get shot

On July 28 2019 08:14 NoSmurfHere wrote:
As a non-participant in the crap that happened before deadline here are the important bits that I observed, after the fact:

1. Pandain comes off looking fairly townish. He uses sound logic to really push Koshi hard on sheeping slam and not having any original reads etc. and all of his points were good. Two players tag team on discrediting Pandain constantly to essentially hope it goes away but Pandain persisted and did not let up. These two players are Koshi himself, and somebody probably no one noticed, FF.

2. Reason #2 for Pandain looking more town is that simply as scum he had very little scum-motivated reason to try and push the lynch in the direction of Koshi, particularly if it was TvT, because he could’ve merely continued to do what he’s done most of the game and lurk or even just go along with killing Chezinu as Chezinu was scumread universally. Keep this in mind as there is another player who did indeed lurk and got away with it.

3. Koshi essentially openly flailed due to Pandain’s line of questioning. In fact pretty much Pandain’s questioning by itself caused Koshi to squirm because Koshi was never able to answer properly why he trusted slam so much. Koshi’s best response to shade Pandain was along the lines of “first you said I changed my reads and then when I said I had none you said that’s even worse and that’s scummy!” (Lol)

Pandain is 100% right that Koshi has no original reads this game and it’s something I pointed out yesterday as well.

4. Fecalfeast’s sole contribution throughout multiple pages was to shade Pandain and defend koshi from the sideline. Absolutely no actual reasons but he exposed himself really hard there on Koshi’s behalf and I have no idea why a town FF would do that instead of just evaluating the facts on face-value basis.

5. FF’s reaction post-flip is to gauge reactions of players as to “who next” rather than try to synthesize what the fuck just happened. Clearly not trying to figure out the game.

6. Slam was completely afk.

7. Branch is new and difficult to read, probably should read the newbie guide but it seems like people are already preemptively setting things up to push him tomorrow. As much as I think he’s an idiot for thinking we are scum, I really don’t think he’s the best lynch and I’m wary of anyone (particularly HF) who is moving toward pushing him now.

8. HF is a difficult read but there are nuggets of “I don’t know why a scum HF would do this” in his posts; the late wagon push is one of them, though he very well could be mafia with Koshi & slam due to how hard he argued with Koshi yesterday yet he townreads Koshi mysteriously. For me personally HF is back to a wait-and-see.

At this point, with the number of instances of straight hard defending between Koshi, FF, and slam, one of them must die tomorrow. I think they’re all good chances to flip scum but I’d probably put Koshi at the top right now.


Mafia reads:

Koshi
FF
Slam



Town reads:

Tube
Eversince
Pandain
Meapak



Lean town:
Branch
Eywa

Null:
Holyflare


-wherebugsgo

On July 29 2019 21:03 Eywa- wrote:


This is the scummiest thing that I've seen this game. What the heck...

you are mafia.
My schedule was pretty much working on a DIY wedding Wednesday/Thursday, bachelor Thursday night, bed at 5:30, up at 9:00, cleanup and set up Friday, more prep Saturday, then the event, drive home Sunday. I don't even know where the time went, never even thought about mafia. So... Yeah, "ran out of gas" is right I suppose.

The thing is, you're trying to use this against me when it's NAI, because I 100% afk as either alignment and NOW you're saying I had a good day 1 to get people on your side, but at the end of day 1, you were already calling for my lynch. So you clearly don't believe that?

vote: FecalFeast

Have not caught up, should be up to date later today.

On July 31 2019 00:41 Holyflare wrote:
Don't really understand what you're saying but it looks amazingly like positioning to vote with those 2 other scummy fucks on eywa

On July 31 2019 03:08 NoSmurfHere wrote:


If you vote on FF it gives koshi the choice between himself and FF to die.

-J

On July 31 2019 03:35 Fecalfeast wrote:
Koshi the whole world is against us what do we do

On July 31 2019 03:58 Fecalfeast wrote:

Oh heck he's here... Awkward.

On July 31 2019 03:40 Branch.AUT wrote:

Holyflare has been doing the same exact thing with me. You never once called him scum. How come?

On July 31 2019 04:34 Holyflare wrote:


Well done for convincing us Eywa is mafia?

On July 31 2019 04:35 NoSmurfHere wrote:


FF is certainly scum, literally the only person who was annoyed by us being townread on the basis of being able to paraphrase QT posts and it lining up with our in-thread opinions.

Koshi is certainly also scum.

I personally don’t give two shits who dies between the two of them.

-wherebugsgo

On July 31 2019 04:44 Alakaslam wrote:

It isn’t though.

On July 31 2019 04:45 Alakaslam wrote:
Koshi since you’ll live.

Why was I badass? How could you possibly know?

On July 31 2019 04:47 Alakaslam wrote:

Not necessarily.

Koshi

Why was I badass? How could you possibly know?

On July 31 2019 04:49 Pandain wrote:
Like seriously his play has been so evasive and illogical all game

On July 31 2019 04:50 Branch.AUT wrote:

Just pushed Eywa to get reaction. Only thing I got was Koshi and FF flopping onto it. Don't like the filter. If Scum then with HF

On July 31 2019 04:50 Alakaslam wrote:

...

You think FF is town

Why didn’t you think I was mafia with TMI

On July 31 2019 04:52 Alakaslam wrote:

No

I think you are town vote FF

On July 31 2019 04:53 Alakaslam wrote:

You think it is Eywa, who and who

On July 31 2019 04:55 Alakaslam wrote:
Eywa is dude

Eywa was at wedding

On July 31 2019 04:55 Fecalfeast wrote:
I'm not happy to die I really enjoy being talked about

On July 31 2019 04:56 Pandain wrote:
What the fuck

I'm literally on a street with friends so can't read any of this but I can't believe koshi lives again

On July 29 2019 11:48 Fecalfeast wrote:

koshi - smartest being in existence and a golden god among tiny, insignificant, men.

HF - would care more as mafia, is still pretty smart and agrees on the hydra being scum.

---

meapak_ziff - who? I thought they were scummy fo rlike 1 post day 1 I think and I don't even want to click their filter because at least with pandain I had a vague idea of what he thought before I made this post... ok I did it anyway I'm gonna lean disinterested towny based on tone.

slam - not reading a 9 pager full of trash nope sorry

eversince - breakfast is the most important meal of the day! Passive and absent, not what Id expect at all.

---

pandain - idk aligns so completely with hydra it's hard to look past it. Shades koshi for dumb reasons that I covered at the time.

eywa- - big day 1 only to immediately run out of gas. Classic scum trait especially when you're cocky, I'm guilty of it and
have seen it before.

hydra - bad tone from my perspective. Has 2 scumreads in me(town) and slam(scummy question mark). lots of words but somehow never makes enough sense to get any traction. Scummy since day 1.