EPTMake me blue. I haven't been blue since 2013
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Pandain
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Make me blue. I haven't been blue since 2013 | ||
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On June 28 2019 18:16 Pandain wrote: /in Make me blue. I haven't been blue since 2013 | ||
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AMA | ||
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On July 02 2019 03:38 Trfel wrote: Can I ask why you don't agree with my read on Eversince? I just think it's extremely early to give a townread based on meta/carefree posting. Anyone can fake meta for a page. (before anyone notes a contradiction, please note I'm not reading Trfel for meta but rather for something specific he did) | ||
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On July 02 2019 03:41 Eversince wrote: Why strong town on Truffles but null on me? You have not done anything meaningful. Read why I like trfel above I don't feel like repeating it | ||
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On July 02 2019 03:58 Trfel wrote: @Grackaroni, here is Eversince's filter from the game in question. @Pandain, thanks for the explanation, I understand. What if I were to say that my townread on Eversince isn't completely rock-solid, but more of an average townread and posted to see how people react? What would you think then? In truth it is a real townread but I know that while the met difference is significant, it's been a while since the mafia game in question so there is still some possibility Eversince could be mafia. Just unlikely IMO. This post just seems even more honest and genuine from a town perspective so it just confirms what I think. Id be pretty impressed if you were scum. If you had just said "es seems townie" I probably wouldn't have thought much of it. The fact you seemed to have an at least somewhat strong opinion this early strikes me as townie. I don't feel like mafia would want to tie themselves so quickly to having to defend a potential mislynch this early in the game, but your read would sort of force that I'd you were mafia. Hopefully my point is clear here I'm on my phone | ||
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If she rolled mafia this game, she would be forced to post extremely active. If she tried to post infrequently and/or lurk, it would be such an obvious contrast to her town game that she would be lynched pretty quickly. So she would have a very strong incentive to, at least in the beginning, maintain high levels of activity. So you can't really make a judgment just based on that yet. If she's actually mafia, I doubt we will catch her based on activity levels. | ||
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On July 02 2019 07:38 Conversion wrote: how does it feel to be a part of the scum that is ruining our little town? I take consolation in the fact that someone has to do it | ||
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On July 02 2019 10:44 raynpelikoneet wrote: Idk i am letting this go atm. You have given your pov and it's up to me to decide if i think you're telling the truth or not. I am interested in why Pandain apparently thinks the same as i do about ES' play so far yet he somehow reads you town for just making a read (not even agreeing with it) he wouldn't even ever make in the first place (i assume that meant as town unless he wants to call himself mafia straight up). I don't think it's a smart read. But I don't think it is particuarly helpful for mafia to make a detailed townread on someone so early in the game. It binds their hands and limits their play. If ES for instance was a possible lynch it would be hard for trfel to support it. But after waking up I decided im not gonna give Trfel a very strong townread for it. Just a slight one. | ||
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On July 02 2019 13:33 Trfel wrote: Yeah honestly I don't have many thoughts, kinda why I asked. That's a good point on Conversion, he barely stayed to talk at all. @Pandain, I'm wondering, since Eversince has now (seemingly) given a fairly strong townread on me, how does that affect your read on Eversince? I don't really like how Conversion and raynpelikoneet both threw suspicion at my posts about the townread but didn't draw any conclusions from it. Feels like an easy way to transition later into a scumread or back off from it, depending on how the game goes. That said it's also valid from a town perspective. I was kinda surprised raynpelikoneet backed off, I'm not used to him doing that, but he was a lot calmer last game and I think he knows that I do weird things when I'm town sometimes so it's fair. If I had to guess I'd guess Conversion for the best chance at mafia but I feel like I'm grasping at straws :/ It doesn't. Mainly because your post was way earlier and she made that read after I made my comment about how I like people who do strong town reads after. | ||
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I gave Trfels a town read because I didn't think it's very mafia-like to make a strong(ish) town read on someone so early in the game. Contrarily, I am not giving you a town read just because you're active. The game has 7 pages, it's not very hard to be active. | ||
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On July 02 2019 10:37 Trfel wrote: I'm not sure if I fully understand what you are getting at but I'll try... Last game I noticed a difference in Eversince's play to her last mafia game, but I wasn't sure if the difference was caused by a change in alignment or the passage of time, so I didn't think much of it. Then it became clear she was town, leading me to believe that the change in alignment is the primary reason for the posting style difference mentioned previously. Yes, this is an assumption, but I think it's an okay assumption because other reasons also support the townread. In this game, Eversince's play is like her town game last game and different from her mafia game. And moreso, the difference is in a way that is harder to replicate as mafia. I know for me and many others, posting as mafia is difficult, and as a result the posts feel rigid, forced, and dry. Posts tend to be a little longer, more focused and less carefree and spontaneous. This contrast is how I was able to townread Tumblewood early on in a previous game and that townread nearly managed to win the game. Going to remove my townread on Trfels. The bolded phrase seems very definitive and certain that ES is town. Trfels, what do you think about the fact that ES's last mafia game was 4 years ago and she could be playing extremely differently than her previous game? I know my first mafia game this year was completely different than how I used to play mafia back in 2013. | ||
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On July 02 2019 15:34 Eversince wrote: Ok, but giving townread to Truffles for engaging and dropping me is like bleh. This is not why I'm giving a townread to Trfels. I'm giving a townread because I didn't think it was likely for a mafia to make a strong town read so early in the game. Not for anything to do with engagement or activity. | ||
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On July 02 2019 15:43 Eversince wrote: Oh wait! I think I get this now. You don't think m!Truffles try to buddy me so early for no reason? I'm active, but that doesn't mean much, I'm doing my usual self, so m!Truffles never just throws himself off a radio tower here? Null on me because of previous? Maybe. You're probably right it's not that strong an argument. And yeah null on you because if you were mafia, you would have an extremely strong incentive to try and mimic your past town play and post alot. | ||
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Do a +1 On July 02 2019 05:03 Grackaroni wrote: Eversince looks different but it's also 4 years old. I don't really trust her yet, but it seemed like Rayn had a really confident read on her in the last game, so I'd be interested to hear his take. Make this weak-ass post. I think he's smart enough to know that a 4 year gap is enough to make any meta reads useless. I also think the Rayn mention is weak. There's also absolutely no care-free nature or light posting which all his last games have had. It's not particuarly alignment indicative since in his last mafia game he was trolling too. But it's weird. Conf meanwhile is usually semi-inactive and doesn't post much. One "bleh" post isn't that significant. | ||
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On July 02 2019 16:18 Trfel wrote: Sorry, but what does the bolded section have in relevance to this? It was poorly worded, but what it meant was "after Day 1 when Eversince was obviously town/endgame when alignments were revealed". To answer your question, her mafia game is different from her town play in a way that is difficult to replicate. Some people, a lot of people really, have trouble posting as mafia and have trouble fitting in. As a result, their posts feel more dry and formal, and socially they are more withdrawn; they focus on reads and pushes without truly getting involved or engaging much. It's not as simple as posting more, it's learning to socially engage and interact in a meaningful and relaxed way as mafia, which is really hard to learn and is unlikely to randomly change, even over time (especially without practice). Am I making sense? Oh I'm a bad reader. I thought you were talking about this game. | ||
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On July 02 2019 16:19 Jockmcplop wrote: Pandain nothing actually happened between you townreading trfel 'exrtemely strongly' and then downgrading twice to null. That's kinda lame dude. my perspective changed | ||
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On July 03 2019 06:02 Eversince wrote: I'm back in the States right now. But I work overnights for a Chem company and I'm always on call for problems with another plant I work at in Philippines. I'm just dead because I want to be around for people to talk to. Just did a 21 hour day yesterday. Then didn't sleep last night. My mind is fuzzy, If this is true you should probably go to sleep now. If you're exhausted and making mistakes you're just going to bring more suspicion on yourself. I've only briefly followed this thread throughout the day (15 hour shift) but I just noticed you just said you don't understand my reasoning when the last thing you had said to me when I was active was "oh I understand you now" So either you're lying or you can't remember anything. Either one is possible based on what you're saying about your exhaustion | ||
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I'm going to go to sleep and catch up in the morning. | ||
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On July 02 2019 17:00 Jockmcplop wrote: Pandain if you're reading this is a question I'd like an answer to please... I thought he was playing scummy and the vote by itself generates conversation. I thought that was particuarly useful in a low player game. | ||
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On July 03 2019 15:23 Jockmcplop wrote: I'm not happy with your playstyle really this game pandain. It seems mafia to me. But there's someone that seemsmore mafia so ima change my vote for now. ##unvote ##vote eywa I'm glad I have your strong endorsement. | ||
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On July 03 2019 02:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: but if Eversince flips mafia, then this game is just super easy going forward can you explain that comment then? Eywa you never answered this. You said game is super easy going forward if ES is mafia. But you said you're not thinking about pre-flip associations. What's the deal? Why will game be easy if ES flips? | ||
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On July 03 2019 07:52 Trfel wrote: [b]@Pandain[b], I really don't get this progression. Help me understand? You were townreading me, then you went to a slight townread, then you downgraded to null. Sure, whatever. What I don't get is that to explain the slight townread changing to a null, you quoted this post and bolded a phrase, shown above. And then when that turned out to be not what you thought it was, you just left it. So help me explain, how did the quote in question affect your read on me, and when it turned out to be irrelevant why did your read not adjust? But I do like Pandain's post about Grackaroni. So I'm hesitant on him currently. You said something like "after it became clear ES was town" and I thought you were referencing this game. That would have been a crazy definitive opinion on this game so early in the game. But it turns out you were talking about ES last game so its null | ||
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Strong town reads: Rayn, Eywa Pretty likely town: Jock Have no idea why people are town reading Conversion. The guy has done nothing really substantial. For ES, I'm not sure. Honestly I started skipping alot of her posts. A lot of her reasoning is ..not good, but I don't think either of Rayn's or HF's points are good. Grack is actually a great town player but he's still done nothing meaningful so there's that. For me honestly, I want to vote between Conversion, Grack, and Trfel. | ||
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On July 03 2019 16:40 Jockmcplop wrote: I explained above. Eywa would never normally deviate from her (I think its her - sorry if i got this wrong) playstyle no matter what. Now suddenly she is explaining herself fully when ES puts pressure on. That looks mafia to me. I'm also clutching at straws somewhat because although both you and eywa seem mafia to me, I have no other scum reads and at this point neither of you are particularly strong reads right now. I'm hoping something happens today that gives me something better to go on tbh. Everyone else seems willing to just say 'fuck it' and vote for ES because she's the only person anyone has made a proper case on (even though all of the cases against ES are weak imo and all based on stuff that doesn't necessarily make her mafia). Look at Grack. Guy has literally nothing in his filter that is townie. Meanwhile he played a really strong town game the past two games, even if he trolled a bit in the beginning he normally always gives good thoughts. The most insightful thing he posted is his defense of ES, but he hardly is even pushing that. He seems extremely content to let her be lynched even though he thinks she is town. | ||
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On July 03 2019 16:45 Jockmcplop wrote: I haven't properly looked into any of these three yet. I had a slight town read on conversion when made the post on ES (even though I disagreed) because of his meta and the aggressive way he defended himself. I'll take a closer look at all three today and let you know what I think though. It might take me a while to get this done because I'm at work. Yeah decent point. I'll say Conv. is null to slightly town. To me he's mostly null. | ||
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On July 03 2019 17:01 Jockmcplop wrote: THis is different to how he opened the last game. He was similarly lazy, but not in an engaged way, just in the way that he could get busy later on. This game it seems like people are almost feeding him crumbs to get him going and all he's doing is going ' yeah ok', but still watching the thread and taking notice. Why not question rayn's townread? It seems odd like it came out of nowhere. While we're on that, rayn why did you townread him so definitely early on? To me, it's just the fact it's obvious he doesn't care about trying to find mafia (or the game at all really) combined with the fact he's posting a decent amount. That contradiction only makes sense if he's mafia. It's a good question for Rayn. But honestly he strikes me as so townie I can't see my townread on him changing bar something crazy happening. | ||
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Rayn's biggest point is the "m!grack doesn't make any sense" contradiction. But if you read the original ES quote, it's clear that ES is saying that in one particular context mafia grack doesn't seem likely. And later on she says overall, Grack could be playing mafia or town. I get his point but it's not that strong and I could easily see town making it. | ||
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On July 03 2019 17:35 Eversince wrote: I got called off to work. but I'm back now if people want to talk! Just read the last two pages. | ||
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On July 03 2019 17:49 Eversince wrote: No actually Grack can wait I still think what Ewya did is so scummy, This needs dealt with first. Does mafia eversince ever refuse to join the only conceivable counterlynch to her? | ||
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@conf, HF, Rayn please comment on this. | ||
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Make a post with support and quoted posts. | ||
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I actually think he's pretty townie | ||
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On July 03 2019 17:58 Eversince wrote: Honestly, I can't. I'm at work on a laptop. I can try though! Depends if I have free time! If not I can 100% do it when I get home! ES: Eywa is mafia! Let's lynch him Pandain: Why? ES: Can't talk now! hahahaha What do you think about Jock and I's points on Grack? You only commented on your previously held beliefs regarding him. Did Jock and I make any good points? | ||
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On July 03 2019 18:08 Holyflare wrote: I don't agree with your conclusion. She's meekly soft defended grack all game and then sprinkled "hesitance" and done nothing with it. They could easily be mafia together, or she could know he's town. Both things point to a mafia es because grack looks absolutely shit and a free lynch for literally anyone to hop onto. She's said several times that she might be up for lynching Grack. It would not be suspicious at all for her to vote Grack if she thought it was the only way to not get lynched. But she refused to do this. The fact she refuses to lynch someone who you think "Looks absolutely shit and a free lynch" should strike you as townie, particuarly when it's the only way she could avoid getting lynched. It also doesn't matter if she knows he's town. If she's mafia, she's trying to survive. You still can't justify mafia ES not joining the grack train. | ||
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Why would that matter for mafia ES? What is this reasoning? | ||
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On July 03 2019 16:40 Jockmcplop wrote: I explained above. Eywa would never normally deviate from her (I think its her - sorry if i got this wrong) playstyle no matter what. Now suddenly she is explaining herself fully when ES puts pressure on. That looks mafia to me. I'm also clutching at straws somewhat because although both you and eywa seem mafia to me, I have no other scum reads and at this point neither of you are particularly strong reads right now. I'm hoping something happens today that gives me something better to go on tbh. Everyone else seems willing to just say 'fuck it' and vote for ES because she's the only person anyone has made a proper case on (even though all of the cases against ES are weak imo and all based on stuff that doesn't necessarily make her mafia). I think it's definitely grasping at straws. I get your point though. But I think it's very weak to make those kinds of arguments. Where you with me when I made a huge post in a previous game about how FF was mafia becuase he was posting a lot more than in his mafia games? Previously FF always had extremely short posts, and then in this game he was making long analyses. He ended up being town. You're basically trying to make a meta read based on one post. I don't think it's very strong. | ||
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She's not defending Grack and saying he's town. She's just saying his play is NAI. So your argument that she wouldn't want to lynch a town read is wrong because she hasn't town read him. Also think about this HF: If Grack turns out to be town, I'm sure you agree it would be crazy stupid for ES to not vote to lynch him. Possible, but unlikely. So we should lynch Grack first because that will help us with ES. | ||
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1. You're wrong she is giving him a town read. She has said that certain aspects of grack's play has seemed townie, but overall she has constantly repeated that he could be either alignment. 2. We should lynch Grack first, because if Grack is town there's no way ES is mafia. | ||
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On July 03 2019 19:28 Jockmcplop wrote: It constantly impresses me how hf doesn't even need to do anything, people just don't want to lynch him because he's hf. He has given one read and nothing else, no town reads. Could well be mafia tbh. He's not a bad lynch. But I want to hear more from him before thinking about voting him. | ||
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On July 03 2019 20:06 Holyflare wrote: Either you're misreading or just needlessly defending her. If the person themselves said they're defending a person then what do you think they think of their alignment? Hard defending him not to be lynched. Not hard defending him that he's town. Completely different. On July 03 2019 01:18 Eversince wrote: Conclusion: Grack may totes be scum. But his play there is not a reason to think he is a mafia yet. On July 03 2019 00:42 Eversince wrote: @Rayn He doesn't but it could be either m!Grack/t!Grack. I'm saying we lynch most likely mafia over him. Because Grack playstyle make it hard to tell if he's m!Grack yet because his town play looks the same D1. On July 03 2019 00:32 Eversince wrote: Also you sum my Grack points back up yourself. He could be mafia, but he could be t!Grack here and not giving a darn. I don't like to lynch town. On July 03 2019 00:47 Eversince wrote: .......I'm getting annoyed with answering this! It's all over my filter! I think Grack could play his inactive self d1 as either mafia!Grack or town!Grack. I give him the pass today because I know this about him. I would still lynch but I think it's not worth our votes with better options On July 02 2019 16:35 Eversince wrote: Willing but not preferred! (Note: to lynch Grack) I said here that it would be more a policy lynch. | ||
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There was another game earlier this year where Bugs, BC, VE, and I got him lynched because he was extremely tunneled on me and never made posts about anyone else. He ended up being town. | ||
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On July 03 2019 20:39 Jockmcplop wrote: Its the whole picture together that does it for me... 1: hf didn't really seemed to go either way on ES until exactly the moment that ES got 3 votes from other people. Then all of a sudden its 'ES is scum' for bad reasons. I know hf gets tunnelled but usually his cases make sense in some way. In this case, nothing he has said about ES would her mafia. Not really true. His vote was the third one, but he made his opinion clear that he thought ES was mafia back when ES only had one vote. He just ended up voting later. And unfortunately no, he often gets tunneled and refuses to think logically in these scenarios. 2: His case is bad and he knows it, but is sticking with his vote for other reasons I don't think he thinks its bad. I think hes just crazy tunneled. He does this every game unfortunately. 3: That reason is that eywa is playing exactly the same as before, even though there's so much of a difference from before that hf pointed it out and nearly scumread eywa for it. Like I said, its both true that Eywa is playing similar and that Eywa is making strangely coherent points. As in he's playing the same way, but his arguments are better. The whole sequence of events is clearly mafia like. | ||
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On July 03 2019 21:08 Eywa- wrote: Jockmcplop, have you abandoned your confidence approach from last game? There was an early interaction between HF and Rayn that struck me as off, but I kind of came out of it thinking that Rayn was scum... Because they kind of amicably came to the same idea despite seemingly starting from different view points (this is when Rayn switches his vote off of ES, then back on. I don't agree with Pandain, I think ES being willing to only lynch me shows a lack of understanding of what town players are seeing in the game right now and I'm a pretty safe resting spot right now. Why does mafia ES refuse to lynch a viable counterwagon on someone she has said she would be willing to lynch? If you can't explain this, you can't vote her. | ||
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On July 03 2019 21:17 Eywa- wrote: 1) Grack could be mafia 2) She could think I'm a more viable lynch 3) She's under a lot of pressure and people under pressure do a lot of crazy things they wouldn't do otherwise. 4) She's afraid of giving more associations, so she's locking in all of her reads (this actually is pretty well in line with her play since I joined the wagon) The issue here is, I don't think anything a player does under pressure or after a slip matters 1. Then vote Grack 2. Objectively not true. 3. The vote count was 3-4 Grack-ES. It's not a difficult choice to make as mafia to join the counterlynch. You can't cite pressure. 4. If ES gets lynched, we still know nothing on Grack regardless. What slip have you seen? | ||
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On July 03 2019 21:19 Jockmcplop wrote: Do you really think this? Anything a player does under pressure is irrelevant? Definitely not very sensible. Then you couldn't count anything a person up for lynch does ever. In that logic, once you decide you want to lynch someone, you ignore absolutely everything they say/do because they're "Under pressure" | ||
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On July 03 2019 21:25 Eywa- wrote: 1) No 2) It is if he decides to jump in and play 3) what? 4) shrug Why would ES think you are a more viable lynch? There were no votes on you. There were 3 votes on Grack. Only Jock has had some suspicions of you. Answer me this. | ||
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On July 03 2019 21:32 Eywa- wrote: If you can't answer it yourself then you are admitting that ES is playing against her win condition as either alignment... Why would she do that? If she's town, her play makes complete sense. She does not think Grack is scum. She thinks you are scum. Yes, no one really thinks you are scum, but maybe she can convince people. She is not interested in "just surviving" per se, she is interested in lynching scum. If she's mafia. Her play makes no sense. She is trying to push someone who almost no one thinks is scum when she's up for lynch and there's another viable counterwagon. In fact, there's only one viable counterwagon. | ||
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On July 03 2019 21:35 Pandain wrote: If she's town, her play makes complete sense. She does not think Grack is scum. She thinks you are scum. Yes, no one really thinks you are scum, but maybe she can convince people. She is not interested in "just surviving" per se, she is interested in lynching scum. If she's mafia. Her play makes no sense. She is trying to push someone who almost no one thinks is scum when she's up for lynch and there's another viable counterwagon. In fact, there's only one viable counterwagon. Just answer this. What about this logic doesn't make sense? | ||
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Elaborate. Because you're alone thinking this. | ||
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jock wanna join me? I'll vote with you HF at eod if ES is the only other option. | ||
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Eywa should 100% not be able to get away with even worse logic and refusing to explain himself. | ||
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On July 03 2019 21:46 Jockmcplop wrote: How is this incorrect???? If ES fails to switch to grack, then flips red, we immediately kill grack because basic logic says so. If they are both mafia, mafia loses. I can't see how on earth you can possibly think otherwise. +1 | ||
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For instance, ES will almost certainly get lynched if she tries to continue pushing for you. As town, it makes sense if she truly believes you are scum. As scum, it doesn't make sense, becuase she will almost certainly get lynched. Let me give you a counter example. Let's say we are playing a massive game, with 20 players and 5 scum. If one scum member buses and lynches all the 4 other scum, that's optimal town play. Is that optimal scum play? Of course not. | ||
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Mafia want to survive. End of story. Appearing townie is just a means to an end, but it is not the main priority. | ||
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Meaning I think the last two scum are between Conv, Trfell, HF, and Grack. I actually have a very slight town read on HF too. | ||
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His posts seem genuine and he's making some good points. I think the last two scum are Conversion and Grack. Maybe HF. | ||
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No it's pretty consistent. You are the only one I was wavering on, but after my conversation with you I think you're being honest and sincere. I never thought HF was really that scummy. | ||
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ES is mafia ,Grack is town: Congrats, ES gets lynched because no one is ever going to vote Eywa. You're right -Great! ES looks slightly better in Grack's eyes, the only one she would look better to (because no one else knows Grack's alignment). Too bad she's already dead. ES is Mafia , Grack is Mafia : Okay, makes sense But if we're doing this logic, and you think Grack is scum anyway, we should lynch Grack first. Because it's extremely unlikely Eywa cannot be scum if Grack is town. | ||
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On July 03 2019 17:44 Eversince wrote: I've already said what I feel about Grack. His poor contribution after I defend him so hard is bleh though. I'd be ok with lynching him to be honest. On July 03 2019 17:49 Eversince wrote: No actually Grack can wait I still think what Ewya did is so scummy, This needs dealt with first. Does this look like "slowly eroding a town read" to you? It's the opposite, Holyflare. | ||
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I agree it's not optimal play, but I could easily see ES just freaking out a little and trying to lynch someone else. | ||
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On July 03 2019 22:35 Pandain wrote: It's unlikely Eywa is scum if grack is town* I mean ES here of course | ||
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But if Grack is town, I don't think ES is mafia. | ||
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But based on my PoE I think the last two scum are probably you and Conversion. | ||
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On July 03 2019 23:07 Pandain wrote: Nah Conversion you're completely misunderstanding me. I never really thought you're scummy, maybe slightly town. Basically null. But you're in the "scum" pile based on process of elimination. But based on my PoE I think the last two scum are probably you and Conversion. To clarify, even now I don't really have any reasons to call you scummy. You've done pretty much nothing this game. I just think you're scum based on PoE | ||
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On July 03 2019 23:19 Trfel wrote: @Raynpelikoneet, is the bolded the thing you are using to scumread Eversince? Because to me, Eversince is saying here that Holyflare is good at mafia as a game, not as an alignment. I also read it like this. Case in point: Right afterwards he said "If he's town he'll figure things out!" | ||
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On July 03 2019 23:58 Holyflare wrote: If you think my only continual point for lynching es is the meta read on me then you clearly have not been reading what I've said in the slightest. The meta read is bad, yes, but I've clearly made several points after that. To be fair it was your only stated reason until you got pressured by jock. | ||
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[QUOTE]On July 03 2019 23:44 Jockmcplop wrote: [QUOTE]On July 03 2019 23:31 Holyflare wrote: [QUOTE]On July 03 2019 23:19 Jockmcplop wrote: [QUOTE]On July 03 2019 23:15 Holyflare wrote: Don't really understand what I've done that's scummy other than be marginally apathetic to the game. [/QUOTE] You must have missed the posts i made about it. They way you have gone after ES is scummy. The bad logic that seems like an excuse to vote for ES more than anything else. The way you then brought up the eywa thing even though it contradicts your own post from earlier - just to make ES look bad. Every post you make about ES seems like you're trying to get the evidence to fit instead of seeing where the evidence leads. As if you already knew who you were accusing and just need to twist the facts to make it look right.[/QUOTE] You keep referencing the bad logic but then said you're starting to see my point of view. So which is it eh? [/QUOTE] The bad logic i'm referring to is the whole 'ES got a meta read on me wrong therefore she is mafia'. It makes no sense and is stupid. [QUOTE]On July 03 2019 23:31 Holyflare wrote: I don't think anyone reading my post can disagree with my point in eywa. It's different, even eywa agrees. If you are mafia es and your partner is up for lynch mafia go for lynch bait which es did even though eywa is playing similarly to last game. My thoughts on eywa mean nothing because of several reasons: Es never agreed with those points. Es played with eywa literally last game. If you take away my point on eywa, eywa looks the same as last game and es is pushing that as scummy even though literally in the last game eywa was the same. There is no hesitance. Its "oh yeah counter wagon grack is up for lynch, maybe he is scummy! But this eyway guy that's the same as last game though!" It's superficial and contradictory to what her own thought process should be and is typical of mafia trying to find an easy lynch wagon to place a vote. Who else does es really scum read? Sure your read list can elaborate on that. [/QUOTE] Your point on eywa was specifically that eywa has played differently in this game to other games. You thne scum read ES because you say eywa has played exactly the same in this game as in the last game. You really can't see a contradiction there? You really can't see how it looks like you will say anything to make ES look bad? [/QUOTE] Point me to the place where I say eywa is playing so differently in this game to the last. I guarantee you can't because I never said that. If you think my only continual point for lynching es is the meta read on me then you clearly have not been reading what I've said in the slightest. The meta read is bad, yes, but I've clearly made se | ||
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On July 03 2019 23:58 Holyflare wrote: Point me to the place where I say eywa is playing so differently in this game to the last. I guarantee you can't because I never said that. On July 04 2019 00:08 Holyflare wrote: I've never said eywa looked the same so you got me there. Explain this. So you admit you did say eywa looks different? | ||
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On July 04 2019 00:52 Jockmcplop wrote: Do you mean the roughly 20 minutes between my last post and this one while i was on my way home from work, or are you meaning it in a more metaphorical sense?? Maybe he meant it spiritually | ||
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On July 04 2019 01:25 Holyflare wrote: No, I thought I posted that eywa looks exactly the same since that's what I've based most of my reads off of. I didn't though. The point about eywa posting explanations does not mean eywa is playing differently, just that eywa posted something out of the norm. Eywa still looks the same to me other than that. @Jock, this is what I said to you earlier. I don't think it's really a contradiction. Eywa is playing *basically* the same, but there were one or two posts that were more cogent than normal. But that's not really playing different I think you should rethink your vote. By the way, to anyone who thought Convo should get townie points for being aggressive, I invite you to look at these two posts from his last mafia game. On May 20 2019 20:31 Conversion wrote: the fuck is Jock shitting on me for when I was literally on a plane and how are people eating that bullshit up as a scum read dude literally shared a scum read with me in a post and then still scumreads me stay classy in other news disfo still has done nothing and I’m still hearing a lot of white noise on other people so we should lynch disfo. I’m heading to work now so hopefully I can llay at lunch or something On May 20 2019 20:33 Conversion wrote: like i think it’s incredibly disingenous to cal me flaky and apologetic and trying to lurk for not doing much when the only other person that pointed disfo out at the point was rayn at that point. also fuck you why would i ever make an irl excuse when i can just literally disappear. also double fuck you because i didnt play the last game i was in because i lost my job | ||
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On July 04 2019 01:29 Holyflare wrote: It's quite clear that I thought that way since, you know, I've based the majority of my scum read on es talking that way. It was clear to me too, at first. But then those two posts were sort of vague and made me rethink if I was over-justifying what you thought. | ||
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On July 04 2019 01:49 Holyflare wrote: In regard to Jock, I think it's this point that really makes me waiver. What other points or theories does he actually have that would make him think I'm mafia? I'm pretty sure they're all gone. He didn't even realise this was still a point for him until someone pointed it out again yet I was still mafia to him before that. He's just tunneled. Townie's do it all the time. When you're tunneled, you won't accept explanations from your scum read even if they're logical. Even if Jock has accepted your explanation, he still will think that's just a (bad) alternative explanation and not what you were actually trying to say. For instance, your initial meta read on Eywa was terrible. Jock correctly pointed that out, and even you admit now it was really bad. Now, when you offer "other reasons" why you are still voting Eywa, it will seem fake to him. And honestly to me they're not really good reasons anyway. The reason I think Jock is town is because it's extremely clear he's trying to analyze and think about the game. He's engaged in constant conversation, his reads are constantly evolving, he's made a spreadsheet(albeit simple and a little wrong), he's pushing his reads and defending those he thinks he's town. I don't think he's a good enough mafia player to be able to fake this. He's arguably the most active person in the thread (since ES is mostly spam). | ||
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On July 04 2019 01:58 Jockmcplop wrote: This is the thing hf every time you begin to even look a little bit town you say something like this: I have no idea why you would think that's true. It isn't at all. I have brought up the eywa thing consistently over the last few pages. You're literally just making this shit up out of nowhere. It's just a misunderstanding. HF thinks from your post saying that "oh my point still stands!" that you thought it had been negated earlier. Of course you never thought it was negated, but HF didn't know/think that. Did you see my post on Conf? Given that he can be extremely aggressive as mafia, what do you think of his play so far? | ||
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On July 04 2019 01:54 Holyflare wrote: If I had to choose between Grack or ES for a lynch I'd probably choose grack tbh. His filter is void of literally aby content. People are town, he guesses I could maybe be mafia. Es is town because of bathtub? Drunk posting that doesn't even look drunk? Dumb and probably mafia. You're always welcome to join. If you switch it will be 3-3 and Jock will then probably switch to Grack when your lynch doesn't get any steam. | ||
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On July 04 2019 03:22 raynpelikoneet wrote: I know she did but do you believe that's the truth? I don't. That was everyone's interpetation of the comment except you. You're the only one reading it otherwise. Also, it's clear that he meant the game and not the alignment because she specifically says "if he's town he'll figure it out" right after. It wouldn't be very sensical if she was referring to the mafia alignment and then said hes a good town player. | ||
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On July 04 2019 03:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: It's amazing how i once again get scumread because someone else gives a shitty explanation for what they said earlier. no-fucking-one says "he's stupid good mafia player" if "he" just afks and dies as mafia, and when asked for a reference (they were already referring to) there isn't any. If you think someone is stupid good as town and ridiculously bad as mafia you say they are "stupid good town player / stupid good as town". It's ridiculous how people buy every fucking bullshit someone says just because they make posts.... The only one scumreading you for this is Grack Everyone else just thinks its a mistake. | ||
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On July 04 2019 04:21 raynpelikoneet wrote: that's not my point. my point is noone says "good at the game" unless the player in consideration is also good as mafia, because people who are only good as town are not good mafia players. Okay, I get you now. It's still NAI. This is a dumb sort of contradiction that is easy to make if you don't think too hard about it. For instance, I could say "I think Rayn can play a good scum game" and still think you will slip up later on. I see what you're saying, it's just a weak argument | ||
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Jock is way too active. Rayn is way too active. HF could be scum but seems townie. Trfel is playing like his town games. Eywa was really townie with his exhcnage with me. Who else wants to lynch Conv (or grack) | ||
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The arguments against ES are the dumbest thing ever. But hurry up and lynch him and see how wrong you guys were. | ||
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On July 04 2019 04:26 Jockmcplop wrote: Pandain switch to conversion with me I switched. Who else wants to join? | ||
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Grack vote conv | ||
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On July 03 2019 00:47 Eversince wrote: .......I'm getting annoyed with answering this! It's all over my filter! I think Grack could play his inactive self d1 as either mafia!Grack or town!Grack. I give him the pass today because I know this about him. I would still lynch but I think it's not worth our votes with better options | ||
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If I think someone is town, I'm going to defend them. Saying otherwise is stupid. | ||
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On July 04 2019 05:36 Eywa- wrote: Contributing my reads does nothing to progress the game state if everyone thinks I'm town. Unless they think my reads have a higher accuracy than their own, which... They don't. So I'm not sure what you're getting at. This is the most amazing thing I ever read on this site. | ||
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On July 04 2019 17:06 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why didnt you vote for grack though at the time in case you thought hes better lynch than ES? He decided to leave his vote on Grack after Grack gave a great explanation that he's lazy. | ||
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On July 04 2019 17:10 Holyflare wrote: It was after this post which was essentially an afk excuse when under pressure. Keep seeing them every time I bring up a case or valid points on her. Why would you ever think ES goes willingly AFK? When she's currently the most likely lynch if nothing changes. And given the fact that ES is crazy active, why would she suddenly go afk now.... when she was defending herself a ton the previous day. Bad argument | ||
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HF: Thinking about voting for Grack. I think he's mafia Actually, I will vote for him! Grack: Hey! HF: Convince me you're town Grack: I'm just a lazy boy. HF: Sounds great to me! | ||
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On July 04 2019 17:14 Trfel wrote: Pandain, my problem here is that this explanation is actually false, and in more ways than one. First, you posted your townread before I made the post in question anyway, so why does the post in question even have relevance? You even acknowledged that my townread wasn't so strong well before this point. Second, you changed your read on me from town to null before realizing that we were talking about different games. So that shouldn't affect your earlier post at all. I get that the initial point isn't that strong to begin with, but I really don't like this explanation, it's completely impossible. Does anyone else see this? I mean that the post is null because I misunderstood it. Because that post is null, you went back to a slight townread for me. I think there might be some confusion here. Maybe on my end. If you're still confused, try to explain simply and I can explain. | ||
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On July 04 2019 17:22 Holyflare wrote: No she makes plenty of them and then responds to points which is imo worse because it looks like an excuse to leave at any point. It's unnecessary and a bad habit for mafia. Either way it reinvigorated my want to lynch her until she actually responded. You think the person with the largest filter who has been constantly responding to criticism the entire previous day suddenly chooses one hour before lynch to make an AFK excuse? | ||
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It's exactly what happened, just add in your nonsensical anger at ES claiming she was AFK. I invite anyone to reread the conversation: https://tl.net/forum/mafia/549333-minifeast-15?page=38 | ||
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You're really not responding to pressure well at all. It's exactly what you said. On July 04 2019 17:10 Holyflare wrote: It was after this post which was essentially an afk excuse when under pressure. Keep seeing them every time I bring up a case or valid points on her. You thought the person with the largest filter chose this time to make an AFK excuse. And that's what made you vote her, in your own words. | ||
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On July 04 2019 17:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: Pandain youre misrepping what holyflare said he did right now. Thats not even what he says. It's exactly what he's saying. He's even admitting it in the above post. He was wavering between Grack and ES. He started to say he was going to vote Grack. Then ES came in and said she was probably going to be AFK so won't be able to respond alot. HF then decides to keep his vote on EF. None of this is debatable. You can say he's town still but these facts are not debatable. | ||
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But it clearly was acceptable enough to him to decide to vote ES for saying she would be AFK. | ||
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On July 04 2019 17:31 Holyflare wrote: Do you think it matters if the person with the largest filter posts afk excuses? What's your point? My point is clearly that she has some subconscious need to post afk excuses when she doesn't actually need to afk. Like HF just got caught out in a lie. Now he's not debating it anymore. | ||
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That's not even my main point. It's clear by the way that you accepted it enough, by the way, because you didn't vote him. But it's not my main point. My main point is that your trigger reason for sticking with ES is that she said she might be AFK. And that's a terrible reason. | ||
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You were thinking about voting Grack. Here are the only two meaningful things that changed: Grack: I was lazy so I didn't post. ES: I might be AFK this upcoming hour. Based only on these two statements, you reversed your read and went back to ES. | ||
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On July 04 2019 17:48 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yes. Tjst's true Pandain. You take some post(s), when hf says why he did it you dont try to weigh the truth value of his explanayion, instead you make your own oversimplified one and say hf is lying. Explain how I'm wrong. | ||
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None of this is debatable. And sure, I agree that you could be town and think ES's afk excuse is bad. But it makes you more suspicious because that's terrible logic. This absolutely terrible logic makes you mafia. As well as you trying to say that "I NEVER SAID THAT" when you clearly did. And you even now admit that you did say that. | ||
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On July 04 2019 17:52 raynpelikoneet wrote: That's true and this bothers me aswell. I cant go more into detail before i am home, but your final conclusion was "hf is scum for this" regardless of if hf's explanation makes sense (or should make sense) or not. I mean I think a townie could think this. But I think it's complete trash and makes him way more suspicious. I also don't like HF now trying to justify himself with other reasons why ES was suspicious, when he clearly stated above that the afk post was the reason he switched . | ||
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On July 04 2019 18:01 Holyflare wrote: I have literally no idea, it's just something I see skimming through the thread. You're conflating the reasoning anyway! I just think it's a bad reentry post to make when there are multiple points against you and you're the leading wagon. Do you think it's something mafia ES would say? Who had the largest filter in the game and was constantly responding to pressure beforehand? | ||
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You can say I'm wrong about things but don't say I'm not contributing. | ||
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On July 04 2019 20:43 Holyflare wrote: I notice how pandain has not once commented on anything i wrote about Eversince's grack read in that long post. Deflecting is nice and could mean they're partners. He did instigate the switch and had no remorse afterwards too. I don't agree with any of it. I have a hard strong town read on ES as I've already said. | ||
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My only concern is if I'm going to push HF or Grack first. | ||
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On July 04 2019 21:19 Jockmcplop wrote: Mafia won't shoot me surely. I couldn't have had a dumber day 1 if i'd tried. But most people think you're town. and you are against an ES lynch which mafia would love to happen day 2. And if HF ends up being mafia you're not even playing that poorly considering he was your #1 scum read. | ||
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Meanwhile, you guys are trying to lynch someone who is obviously town (ES) | ||
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On July 04 2019 21:57 Holyflare wrote: The optimal lynch tomorrow is really very likely Grack over everyone else. He shenaniganed away from ES, he has posted almost nothing, he's literally the only one in the game who hasn't weighed in on anything the entire night, he only comes in to make random comments about pandain dying without having read the thread and leaving again. It's terrible mafia play but it's effective. I have no respect for you Grack. This is 100% what I want. If Grack is mafia, that's awesome. If he happens to be town, it means ES is almost certainly town imo. And the last mafia is Eywa or HF. I know I've been pushing you a little bit, but I think this whole puzzle actually starts with knowing Grack's alignment. | ||
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Eywa, HF, and Grack. We lynch into these and we win. | ||
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I'll be reading the thread in about 7 hours | ||
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Also if ES ends up being scum and I didn't lynch her I would singlehandedly have lost this game, so there's that. | ||
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I'm more confident in Rayn than ES. We will have to see what happens | ||
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I don't think either is mafia but that's what the choice is now. | ||
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To the last townie who made a mistake, no worries. | ||
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On July 07 2019 04:51 Pandain wrote: I think a no lynch tomorrow would not be the worst thing Actually this is a terrible idea. I blame sleep deprivation | ||
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Not sure between Trfel and Jock. I don't have too much time to devote, but I'll definitely do a big filter before the end of next day. | ||
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I mean I still thought from ESs tone she was town but I was obviously way less sure when she flipped. | ||
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On July 07 2019 18:08 Pandain wrote: Did he ever rethink his read on ES? During day2? I mean I still thought from ESs tone she was town but I was obviously way less sure when she flipped. Less sure when grack flipped* | ||
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Which makes it super weird that he never even wavered on voting towards ES, particuarly with the new flips. It's also weird that he consistently defended ES against what he saw as "bad analyses", but he never actually went out of his way to say what he thinks on ES (either for or against). He just responded to other people. | ||
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On July 07 2019 18:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: this is the post Trfel made on ES, yet the conclusion is "tone and meta" (other stuff doesn't even make sense since he has earlier said ES is capable of strong scum play so why can't she just outright lie about not knowing who died?). Actually i don't know how how any of this makes sense since if ES has strong scumplay why is she town by tone and meta either??!?!? I think you can say someone can have strong scumplay and still think you can read them on tone. It's not the biggest contradiction. | ||
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On July 07 2019 18:24 raynpelikoneet wrote: I genuinely don't think there is anything wrong with Jock's play during D1 from town perspective. No I agree, although the HF points were pretty weak. I mean it's weird once the Grack flips turn out, given it was the only thing making Jock think ES is town, that he never seriously even thought about ES. | ||
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On July 07 2019 18:17 Jockmcplop wrote: What would be the most helpful thing i could do for town now? STFU or answer questions?? This is also really weird. Does a townie ever say this? Sounds like a mafia trying to input themselves into the conversation however they can. | ||
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Thanks to hosts and all players. | ||
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