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On July 04 2019 21:26 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2019 21:25 Grackaroni wrote:On July 04 2019 21:24 Holyflare wrote:On July 04 2019 21:22 Grackaroni wrote:On July 04 2019 21:21 Pandain wrote:
Grack why do you think I'd get shot? Because you're being townie and you won't get lynched. Whoa there, that's completely the opposite. lol are you pushing Pandain? I didn't read yet between after the lynch and now. Perhaps you should get to doing that then because his push tonight was completely bat shit insane.
It absolutely wasn't bat shit insane.
Your posts are actually quite hard to follow (because you tend to make a point over the course of a bunch of pages and expect people to follow exactly the same train of thought as you) and it always makes you look somewhat mafia regardless of your alignment. You probably know this already yourself. I haven't played a game yet where you have been confirmed town from your post content alone (ie without game mechanics confirming it for you).
Why do you think there's so much argument about things you have/haven't said already? Its because you make it really difficult by always having the big picture message buried somewhat between the lines and then pull it out later as if it was obvious all along.
So when you say things like 'his push was bat shit insane' and other stuff you say about how obvious it is that you're right and other people aren't and how stupid everyone else it, it might be worth wondering whether its everyone else being stupid or the fact that you are obscuring the simplicity of your points for some unknown reason.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
I don't understand what you're doing Pandain. You are either an obstinate townie who picks and chooses facts when they suit him the most or mafia with extra information so you form narratives to fit what you're seeing. I think it's quite likely the latter because:
You defended me from Jock when Jock was actually CORRECT that I didn't post any other information about Eywa in the thread other than Eywa was different from last game because of the content of their posts.
You defended ES from people by really bad logic saying "oh, ES must be town because she's not voting Grack" while simultaneously thinking Grack was mafia. You then twisted it to say that if she was mafia with Grack she's always vote Grack which I don't think you can point to any mafia game really where any mafia would do that over trying to start a wagon on someone else.
This morning you were creating the narrative on me where you extrapolated some information, made up some bs about me not reading grack an alignment because he said he was lazy (not the case, but so what if I even did that?) and neglected to put any of the other information I posted into your read and just resolutely repeated the point despite other people telling you it was bad.
Then you ignored ACTUAL evidence that Eversince has lied about her Grack meta read repeatedly in the thread, something that Eversince even ACKNOWLEDGES but you say you didn't like it. You didn't like FACTS that were true.
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So i am going to start with this post:
On July 04 2019 01:54 Holyflare wrote:
If I had to choose between Grack or ES for a lynch I'd probably choose grack tbh. His filter is void of literally aby content. People are town, he guesses I could maybe be mafia. Es is town because of bathtub? Drunk posting that doesn't even look drunk?
Dumb and probably mafia.
Correct me if i am wrong but i think this post clearly says HF thinks at that time Grack is better lynch than Eversince is. I asked him why didn't he change his vote to Grack at the time if he thought that was the case. HF said he were in a train or something and sporadic activity, couldn't post etc. I believe that because i do the same when i am playing on phone, i make short posts, never quote and deal with the proper follow up later. There is nothing scummy in that in itself. Here is the post HF made where he decided to keep your vote on ES.
On July 04 2019 03:11 Holyflare wrote:
I think I'll leave my vote where it is in the meanwhile...
This is what happened meanwhile regarding HF/ES/Grack:
- On page 38 HF argues with Grack and at this point still clearly wants to lynch Grack
- ES makes the "fake afk post"
Holyflare then explains this with;
On July 04 2019 17:08 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2019 17:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why didnt you vote for grack though at the time in case you thought hes better lynch than ES? I am almost 100% certain eversince returned and said something I hated and I said the words "I think I'm fine leaving my vote where it is".
On July 04 2019 17:10 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2019 03:02 Eversince wrote:
Looks like I'm die..
I'm try to catch up but I have to go take care of animals. No promises.
It was after this post which was essentially an afk excuse when under pressure. Keep seeing them every time I bring up a case or valid points on her.
On July 04 2019 17:19 Holyflare wrote:
[...]
Grack looked shit from memory (100% of my play is just skimming in a minute at work on phone and writing posts every so often) so I read his filter. It looked terrible.
Would much rather lynch a guy that looks terrible over someone that was talking and said a lot of words (es).
Es returns and says bad things, misconstrues points, says lies. My vote is fine where it is. [...]
I am not sure how the bolded part adds up. Says bad things, okay you can believe that. Miscontrues points, where? she just said she'll catch up if she can. Says lies, mehhhhh... maybe you can call her saying maybe she is afk and then still post is a "lie" but i find that quite a stretch.. You yourself made a "timeline related post" about what you did but i am not really sure how the bolded part adds up in that exact moment?
On July 04 2019 17:22 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2019 17:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am pretty sure ES doesnt make afk excuses based purely on her filter size. No she makes plenty of them and then responds to points which is imo worse because it looks like an excuse to leave at any point. It's unnecessary and a bad habit for mafia. Either way it reinvigorated my want to lynch her until she actually responded.
On July 04 2019 17:58 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2019 17:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:On July 04 2019 17:49 Pandain wrote:
I only brought in Grack to show the contrast.
You were thinking about voting Grack.
Here are the only two meaningful things that changed:
Grack: I was lazy so I didn't post.
ES: I might be AFK this upcoming hour.
Based only on these two statements, you reversed your read and went back to ES. That's true and this bothers me aswell. I cant go more into detail before i am home, but your final conclusion was "hf is scum for this" regardless of if hf's explanation makes sense (or should make sense) or not. That's not really true. Grack posted shit all and if ES had posted nothing (bear in mind I had a case on es outstanding!) I would have voted grack.[...]
I also don't know how the red part and the green part go together? Like i know what you are saying here, i mean how you say your thought process went but i am not sure if it's a townie thought process. You say ES made a post, it would have been better had she posted nothing but when she came back posting but "didn't actually post anything" it's bad? Idk i just don't get it. If ES knows anything about thread sentiment at this time, why do you think she even comes back? Me, you and (kinda afk) eywa think she is mafia. You say you are willing to switch to Grack. Why do you think she as mafia comes back with a non-sensical post, and even lies about activity in that post???? I can see why you think it's scummy but i can't see why you think it's again more scummy than Grack (so you flip back to ES > Grack), based on the fact you start pressuring ES instead of Grack there, because during that same time Grack actually made a post that should sound godawful to you, this one:
On July 04 2019 03:19 Grackaroni wrote:
I think Rayn's push on ES is pretty suspicious actually. He's ignoring the general feel of her filter and her activity in favor of two nitpicked logical errors.
I really suspect that he had a strong feel based read on her in the last game, and even though the filter Trfel linked is four years old I do see a pretty noticeable difference between that game and this one.
- rayn is ignoring the "general feel of ES' filter and her activity" -- this doesnt even say anything because it's just nonsense stuff, those things don't mean anything to anyone's alignment unless you're like Vivax. You should always never take Grack's "side" here since you MUST have the same conclusion i do based purely on that you think ES is scum.
- rayn is instead focusing on two nitpicked logical errors -- i guess you can call the other logical error "nitpicked" in "scummy way" (since other people also have said it's a bad accusation). However the first thing, Grack meta read, should never ever fucking be a scummy thing on me for you, HF, because your case is mostly based on that!!!!!
- "I do see a pretty noticeable difference between that game and this one" (and rayn is ignoring that) -- once again, this is something you also think alike i do, otherwise you wouldn't be voting for ES in the first place, right?
- So actually you should imo call Grack's post really fucking suspicious, instead you say it's a good post?!?!?! What gives?
I find those things inconsistent. I am however going to say i am never going to vote for HF over ES in this game and if ES is mafia as i suspect, HF is never mafia. I would like you to clear those things up anyways. Preferrably during the night phase.
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On July 04 2019 21:31 Holyflare wrote:
Unless the only thing you're talking about is your really really awful logic point of why does ES not vote Grack WHO YOU THINK IS MAFIA over anyone else.
Why does m!ES hard stand against the only other wagon against her?! I literally die here and town is 1 down. m!ES never plays that way so I know you can't prove it.
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I actually agree with most of the case against HolyFlare by the way, I just can't get past the fact that we dodged an ES lynch to hammer our PR. I was kind of leaning ES (if town) -> HF...
But obviously the counter wagon screwed that plan. Now, I'm in a rough spot, because the element of "what do I allow people to get away with" comes into it. I think if Jock is scum for instance, he needs to be lynched... So I might weigh a little bit less purely on reads and a bit more on "what if" and who deserves death.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
On July 04 2019 21:34 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2019 21:26 Holyflare wrote:On July 04 2019 21:25 Grackaroni wrote:On July 04 2019 21:24 Holyflare wrote:On July 04 2019 21:22 Grackaroni wrote:On July 04 2019 21:21 Pandain wrote:
Grack why do you think I'd get shot? Because you're being townie and you won't get lynched. Whoa there, that's completely the opposite. lol are you pushing Pandain? I didn't read yet between after the lynch and now. Perhaps you should get to doing that then because his push tonight was completely bat shit insane. It absolutely wasn't bat shit insane. Your posts are actually quite hard to follow (because you tend to make a point over the course of a bunch of pages and expect people to follow exactly the same train of thought as you) and it always makes you look somewhat mafia regardless of your alignment. You probably know this already yourself. I haven't played a game yet where you have been confirmed town from your post content alone (ie without game mechanics confirming it for you). Why do you think there's so much argument about things you have/haven't said already? Its because you make it really difficult by always having the big picture message buried somewhat between the lines and then pull it out later as if it was obvious all along. So when you say things like 'his push was bat shit insane' and other stuff you say about how obvious it is that you're right and other people aren't and how stupid everyone else it, it might be worth wondering whether its everyone else being stupid or the fact that you are obscuring the simplicity of your points for some unknown reason.
Jock, you say my posts are quite hard to follow but that's PURELY because Pandain made it about my initial post. He never once asked me why my vote stayed on Eversince after the fact did he? It's classic manipulation to hyper focus on one part of a filter and make it all about that and ignore any context about the read or what could have influenced it. So, yeah, it may have looked really fucked up from your perspective but that's because I'm just defending it from the accusation rather than the view as a whole.
The big picture thing is totally understandable because I work 90% of the day and phone post 100% of it. That's why typically on a weekend (or now because I've come home early today) you'll see my posts have 100% more clarity than usual.
So, when Pandain says "oh, you're mafia because all it took to switch to ES was an afk post and Grack saying he's lazy" it's obviously incorrect because all you have to do is look at literally the next page of the thread and see me talking to ES about my case, not liking her responses and pushing her forward. Something that is really very obvious if you even look at my filter more than a few posts past what Pandain was mentioning!
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On July 04 2019 21:38 Eversince wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2019 21:31 Holyflare wrote:
Unless the only thing you're talking about is your really really awful logic point of why does ES not vote Grack WHO YOU THINK IS MAFIA over anyone else. Why does m!ES hard stand against the only other wagon against her?! I literally die here and town is 1 down. m!ES never plays that way so I know you can't prove it.
1) Because you wanted to town tell
2) Because Grack is also mafia
3) Because you didn't actually think Grack would get lynched
I mean... Stop playing this "Why would I do this" game. It's generally anti-town.
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On July 04 2019 21:39 Eywa- wrote:
I actually agree with most of the case against HolyFlare by the way, I just can't get past the fact that we dodged an ES lynch to hammer our PR. I was kind of leaning ES (if town) -> HF...
But obviously the counter wagon screwed that plan. Now, I'm in a rough spot, because the element of "what do I allow people to get away with" comes into it. I think if Jock is scum for instance, he needs to be lynched... So I might weigh a little bit less purely on reads and a bit more on "what if" and who deserves death.
You do you eywa, but I can't see you managing to convince anyone to vote with you on a townread because you feel like they deserve to die.
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On July 04 2019 21:42 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2019 21:39 Eywa- wrote:
I actually agree with most of the case against HolyFlare by the way, I just can't get past the fact that we dodged an ES lynch to hammer our PR. I was kind of leaning ES (if town) -> HF...
But obviously the counter wagon screwed that plan. Now, I'm in a rough spot, because the element of "what do I allow people to get away with" comes into it. I think if Jock is scum for instance, he needs to be lynched... So I might weigh a little bit less purely on reads and a bit more on "what if" and who deserves death. You do you eywa, but I can't see you managing to convince anyone to vote with you on a townread because you feel like they deserve to die.
Well, vote ES instead. I still think that's a fine lynch.
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On July 04 2019 21:40 Eywa- wrote:
I mean... Stop playing this "Why would I do this" game. It's generally anti-town.
Yeah i fully agree with this.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
Rayn I'm 50% of the way through your post and you've already made a mistake. The "says lies, misconstrues" refers to all the posts she says after I kept my vote on her. For example, she called my points trash but didn't know what my points were. She then elaborated that she thought my only point was the meta read which she said was fine before. So, yes, she's:
Either lied about my meta read being good or trash
Misconstrued my case to just being about the meta read when really that was old and I had many more points after that
These are the reasons I KEPT my vote on her after she returned otherwise I would have just simply switched to Grack. So I initially kept it on her because the return afk post looked bad and MAINTAINED my vote on her because what she said AFTER that was lies, misconstruing etc.
-----
Now I'm at the rest of your post. It's quite simple. I had read grack's filter, made up my mind to lynch him because my mind only ever focuses on one person at a time to lynch rather than the big picture. THEN ES posted the afk excuse and she's in the forefront of my mind now, my case is still outstanding on her and I want to keep the pressure up and vote her still. THEN the next page she posts about the meta thing and lies etc.
If ES had simply posted nothing I would have been voting Grack because his filter was fresh in my mind. If ES had made that afk excuse, answered my points and moved on I would also be voting Grack. You just have to look at the next page of the thread to see why I kept voting her, it's really a trivial point.
If you break down the grack post into individual details and whatnot, sure, I probably don't agree with it all. I agreed with the fact he said your logic is wrong because to me it was also wrong, as I highlighted before when I said to you "I don't agree with this point" and I think Pandain even corrected you. I think people can say good as mafia but mean just as town so we disagreed there. It wasn't until you explained it later that I really understood what you were getting at so in retrospect, yeah, I agree with Grack at that point because I felt similarly but I can see how a mafia Grack can also make that post knowing what I know about the language you think ES wrote vs what I interpreted it as.
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On July 04 2019 21:40 Eywa- wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2019 21:38 Eversince wrote:On July 04 2019 21:31 Holyflare wrote:
Unless the only thing you're talking about is your really really awful logic point of why does ES not vote Grack WHO YOU THINK IS MAFIA over anyone else. Why does m!ES hard stand against the only other wagon against her?! I literally die here and town is 1 down. m!ES never plays that way so I know you can't prove it. 1) Because you wanted to town tell 2) Because Grack is also mafia 3) Because you didn't actually think Grack would get lynched I mean... Stop playing this "Why would I do this" game. It's generally anti-town.
Actually, it's funny because there are more reasons why you would do this than otherwise as scum.
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Also HF, i would also want an aswer to this:
On July 04 2019 18:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Do you remember es posting "afk excuses" vefore the es/grack thing in this game and if she did, why wasnt that in your case since you think its scummy?
You said you don't remember. You however posted this:
On July 04 2019 17:26 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2019 17:10 Holyflare wrote:On July 04 2019 03:02 Eversince wrote:
Looks like I'm die..
I'm try to catch up but I have to go take care of animals. No promises.
It was after this post which was essentially an afk excuse when under pressure. Keep seeing them every time I bring up a case or valid points on her. EVERY TIME there is a valid point or case an excuse comes out. It doesn't matter if she posts more after it, feeling the need to post it is scummy imo. Especially if you stay! Show nested quote +On July 04 2019 17:22 Holyflare wrote:On July 04 2019 17:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am pretty sure ES doesnt make afk excuses based purely on her filter size. No she makes plenty of them and then responds to points which is imo worse because it looks like an excuse to leave at any point. It's unnecessary and a bad habit for mafia. Either way it reinvigorated my want to lynch her until she actually responded. If you think this is solely why I wanted to lynch Eversince and this is what you think made me solely keep my vote on her then you're either terrible or mafia. It's way better to keep pressure on someone that I have a case on and instill the fear of a lynch in them than vote grack who has done nothing.
Every time there is a valid point or a case[...] But you didn't even remember if she did that when you made your original case. I would instantly buy your explanation if that happened before in this game AND you had remembered it and explained it with that, but you didn't.
Also the lower part of the quote; I was looking for that post when i wrote my big post and couldn't find it for some reason. But doesn't this contradict solely the fact you even said you wanted to lynch Grack in the first place? Like idk why do you say that? Do you think Grack will fall and GRACK (lol you get it?  ) under pressure if you just say you might want to lynch him? If you actually meant to pressure Grack as you say, i think your follow up on Grack isn't really townie as per my bullet point list.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
The optimal lynch tomorrow is really very likely Grack over everyone else. He shenaniganed away from ES, he has posted almost nothing, he's literally the only one in the game who hasn't weighed in on anything the entire night, he only comes in to make random comments about pandain dying without having read the thread and leaving again. It's terrible mafia play but it's effective. I have no respect for you Grack.
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On July 04 2019 21:40 Eywa- wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2019 21:38 Eversince wrote:On July 04 2019 21:31 Holyflare wrote:
Unless the only thing you're talking about is your really really awful logic point of why does ES not vote Grack WHO YOU THINK IS MAFIA over anyone else. Why does m!ES hard stand against the only other wagon against her?! I literally die here and town is 1 down. m!ES never plays that way so I know you can't prove it. 1) Because you wanted to town tell 2) Because Grack is also mafia 3) Because you didn't actually think Grack would get lynched I mean... Stop playing this "Why would I do this" game. It's generally anti-town.
m!ES literally dies here. So me wanting to 'town tell' is bleh! m!ES just gets lynched and then game moves on.
I kind of agree with you on Grack, but how exactly was Grack not an option? He was literally the counter wagon. So you think Grack/ES mafia team and we just outed ourselves d1 so early (by me hard defending him) just because?
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On July 04 2019 21:57 Holyflare wrote:
The optimal lynch tomorrow is really very likely Grack over everyone else. He shenaniganed away from ES, he has posted almost nothing, he's literally the only one in the game who hasn't weighed in on anything the entire night, he only comes in to make random comments about pandain dying without having read the thread and leaving again. It's terrible mafia play but it's effective. I have no respect for you Grack.
This is 100% what I want.
If Grack is mafia, that's awesome.
If he happens to be town, it means ES is almost certainly town imo. And the last mafia is Eywa or HF.
I know I've been pushing you a little bit, but I think this whole puzzle actually starts with knowing Grack's alignment.
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Converstion came from no where because HF wanted a wagon people would be happy with.
I already said what I felt on Conv, and I'm not mafia so I 1)lynched into my scum reads 2)saved t!ES.
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Okay i understand everything in your post aside from the "Grack's post was good" part. Because he shat on all over my ES read. I might make a mistake, like take something, misread it, and tunnel it into eternity (which isn't really what i did here) but he shat on ALL my points on ES, like literally the whole read.
Why doesn't Grack think you're mafia for your read too, because your read is like 85% the same than mine?
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On July 04 2019 21:59 Eversince wrote:
Converstion came from no where because HF wanted a wagon people would be happy with.
I already said what I felt on Conv, and I'm not mafia so I 1)lynched into my scum reads 2)saved t!ES.
shut up already HF had NOTHING to do with lynching Conversion.
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I also don't like the amount of strategy talk that Eywa is doing. I know some of that was because I was debating him, but it also seems like he takes every opportunity he can to talk about meta strategy.
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EPT
