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On June 03 2019 20:59 wherebugsgo wrote:
We’ll pretty much always know the winner and what they won if someone all-ins, right.
So unless scum is okay with them using a power unmolested they’re pretty much guaranteed to be dead if they’re town and don’t get a vet power (which mafia will know)
This is pretty much the problem. If i read correctly there is always going to be showdown unless everyone except for 1 player folds. So why does mafia just not shoot the dude who won? Unless veteran ofc.
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/out for now 
might /in again if hydras are allowed
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
/out
Game looks cool but I don't know why I thought i'd have time for it.
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On June 03 2019 16:45 KelsierSC wrote:
Can I ask
What happens if no one all ins? Can you fold your hand at anytime with ##fold?
Edit - maybe you've thought of this already but doesn't mafia get a huge advantage knowing what role is given and who receives it. As long as one other person calls the All in then mafia know the role and who has it , someone gets cop, just shoot that guy.
Then again there is a lot of mind games and things to consider with the minigame but its unlikely anyone gets an overpowered role hmm seems very interesting.
/in
I've thought about it and ##fold is indeed a viable action. I've updated the role list accordingly.
On June 03 2019 17:37 Pandain wrote:Have you done the statistics on this? Like if there are ten people, what is likely to be the highest hand? If there ends up being a bunch of people, I could see a lot of powerful roles being given out just by the sheer statistics of someone having a good hand. Show nested quote +On June 03 2019 17:37 wherebugsgo wrote:
Is there a point in folding? I guess it’s beneficial for townies?
Actually, what’s the point of doing anything other than all-in/calling (i.e. what happens if you lose the hand other than nothing?) If you're still in the hand at the end and lose, you don't get dealt the following hand.
Probabilities are here. 1.7% chance on a full house per hand on a 10player game, 3.7% on a flush, etc. Most of the time it will probably take at least two pair to win if everyone checks down to the showdown.
On June 03 2019 22:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2019 20:59 wherebugsgo wrote:
We’ll pretty much always know the winner and what they won if someone all-ins, right.
So unless scum is okay with them using a power unmolested they’re pretty much guaranteed to be dead if they’re town and don’t get a vet power (which mafia will know) This is pretty much the problem. If i read correctly there is always going to be showdown unless everyone except for 1 player folds. So why does mafia just not shoot the dude who won? Unless veteran ofc.
Two of the more common winning hand combinations are a one-shot vest and becoming a veteran. There is a lot of motivation for town to not want a showdown, and at the same time you want to get the best hand to win for town as well as make certain people aren't lying about their ability.
However, given sometimes there might not be a way to avoid showdown and the rarity of a full house I'll make the day vigilante immune to NK's on the night he/she gets the ability.
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How do i play the poker minigame without having to play mafia?
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Showdown occurs every time there is more than 1 player who have not folded, right?
Why does mafia just not play with their best hand every time? Not necessarily saying that is bad but i generally dislike games where a team has only one option to strategise (that is better than any other option).
Why not just discard the whole showdown thing (unless player wants to show cards for some reason)? Every winning hand AND winner is silent. I think it adds more variety to strategy of both town and mafia.
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Canada11355 Posts
I can cohost but I won't have a computer for like a week I'm pretty good at phone votecounts tho
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On June 05 2019 09:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Showdown occurs every time there is more than 1 player who have not folded, right?
Why does mafia just not play with their best hand every time? Not necessarily saying that is bad but i generally dislike games where a team has only one option to strategise (that is better than any other option).
Why not just discard the whole showdown thing (unless player wants to show cards for some reason)? Every winning hand AND winner is silent. I think it adds more variety to strategy of both town and mafia.
I think having no show as a standard action would actually remove a lot of depth from the game. Town would have very little incentive to organize. In the current setup town will have to weigh credibility of a read, strength of a blue role and attempt to only have one player at showdown. In your setup, they can throw half the strong townreads into an all in and not suffer any real consequences.
On June 05 2019 15:35 Fecalfeast wrote:
I can cohost but I won't have a computer for like a week I'm pretty good at phone votecounts tho
Consider yourself hired.
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The problem imo is that mafia always knows who won and what if they just play with best mafia hand available. I mean this is not always true but mafia can 100% of the time force a showdown (or win). Veteran = shoot someone else, no veteran (or vest) = shoot the dude who won.
If you remove all showing cards effects i think it becomes more versatile strategywise, hell i would even remove announcements on who actually won the hand.
I will write a bigger post about what i mean in the morning when i am off work. I think this is a pretty interesting idea all in all.
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So okay. Basically here is the deal for town:
Pair up to a pair of tens: One-use night vest
Pair of jacks - aces: Cop check
Two pair: You become a Veteran
Three of a kind: You become a Cop
Straight: You become a Watcher
Flush: You become a Vigilante
Full house: You become a Day Vigilante
Four of a kind: You become a Mayor
You always play your hand when you have green. You always fold when you have red (unless you have gotten a vest before and for some reason mafia hasn't shot you the night after and you didn't use the vest). The red hands are useless because you simply just die the next night without being able to use your power (day vigilante is btw way worse than night vigilante since you're probably dead before your shot if you got day vigilante as town).
As mafia you always shoot the person who won the hand. Who cares if they were veteran, then they just don't die. That way town never ever has any power roles and the game just becomes vanilla. Way better for mafia even if town gets one more mislynch. Obviously you can wifom in right places, play the hands which would give you vest / vet as town and even no-kill during night if town does what it is supposed to.
Only exception to the rule is mayor, but that doesn't really matter. You probably still just shoot the dude who got mayor and see who dies.
The thing here is, this is easily the best play for mafia (until day before lylo / mylo), and whenever mafia plays like this town needs to play like above, unless they are stupid. Now i am not saying this is necessarily a "bad game" or anything, but it completely takes the poker aspect away from the game because your cards don't really matter (other than that some players have a playable hand and some don't). And i think you'd like to have the poker aspect in the game. (Pretty much what happens here is that the best play probably is for everyone to claim their starting hand and work from there based on reads -- who plays and who folds etc, or the red/green thing, i am not sure which is better but for sure those are the best options)
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What i suggest is the following:
- remove all showdown's (unless player wants to show their cards)
- make it so that it is not announced who won the hand
- make it so that on the next round players do not know who won the last round (players who lost the latest hand are only unallowed to go all-in, otherwise they can post whatever they want, even as they don't actually participate to the current round)
That way players actually have options to choose from. Do i actually have the best hand? Do i risk it so that i won't be on the next round if i dont win? Do i think my townread is winning this hand, do i want to protect them so that mafia doesn't know who actually won and therefore play with a lesser hand? Does the town need more then one player to protect the town read? What happens if we have X number of players not participating the next round on day X (from both team's perspective)? Do i challenge my mafia read's hand? Does mafia want to bluff? Does mafia want to look like town doing the above? What is the power the winner got? Is the player claiming something next day REALLY the winner of the last round? Are there two townies making a big play rn when there is a claimed red check?
Idk, it's your game, but i just think the poker aspect of the game just gets way more interesting if you deny information about the hands won/lost as much as possible.
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On June 06 2019 13:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:So okay. Basically here is the deal for town: Show nested quote +Pair up to a pair of tens: One-use night vest
Pair of jacks - aces: Cop check
Two pair: You become a Veteran
Three of a kind: You become a Cop
Straight: You become a Watcher
Flush: You become a Vigilante
Full house: You become a Day Vigilante
Four of a kind: You become a Mayor You always play your hand when you have green. You always fold when you have red (unless you have gotten a vest before and for some reason mafia hasn't shot you the night after and you didn't use the vest). The red hands are useless because you simply just die the next night without being able to use your power (day vigilante is btw way worse than night vigilante since you're probably dead before your shot if you got day vigilante as town). As mafia you always shoot the person who won the hand. Who cares if they were veteran, then they just don't die. That way town never ever has any power roles and the game just becomes vanilla. Way better for mafia even if town gets one more mislynch. Obviously you can wifom in right places, play the hands which would give you vest / vet as town and even no-kill during night if town does what it is supposed to. Only exception to the rule is mayor, but that doesn't really matter. You probably still just shoot the dude who got mayor and see who dies. The thing here is, this is easily the best play for mafia (until day before lylo / mylo), and whenever mafia plays like this town needs to play like above, unless they are stupid. Now i am not saying this is necessarily a "bad game" or anything, but it completely takes the poker aspect away from the game because your cards don't really matter (other than that some players have a playable hand and some don't). And i think you'd like to have the poker aspect in the game. (Pretty much what happens here is that the best play probably is for everyone to claim their starting hand and work from there based on reads -- who plays and who folds etc, or the red/green thing, i am not sure which is better but for sure those are the best options) ------------------------------------------------------ What i suggest is the following: - remove all showdown's (unless player wants to show their cards) - make it so that it is not announced who won the hand - make it so that on the next round players do not know who won the last round (players who lost the latest hand are only unallowed to go all-in, otherwise they can post whatever they want, even as they don't actually participate to the current round) That way players actually have options to choose from. Do i actually have the best hand? Do i risk it so that i won't be on the next round if i dont win? Do i think my townread is winning this hand, do i want to protect them so that mafia doesn't know who actually won and therefore play with a lesser hand? Does the town need more then one player to protect the town read? What happens if we have X number of players not participating the next round on day X (from both team's perspective)? Do i challenge my mafia read's hand? Does mafia want to bluff? Does mafia want to look like town doing the above? What is the power the winner got? Is the player claiming something next day REALLY the winner of the last round? Are there two townies making a big play rn when there is a claimed red check? Idk, it's your game, but i just think the poker aspect of the game just gets way more interesting if you deny information about the hands won/lost as much as possible.
I understand the problem regarding any hand that doesn't have a night save, and I think I should rethink some of the rewards. I'm thinking of making it a point 'marketplace' where the town can purchase which ability they would like, and the amount of points they get is dependant on the strength of their hand. However, I want there to be counterplay from Mafia's side and I don't think with all showdowns being removed it would make it fair for Mafia. The least they deserve is to know who got the ability. However, I'm not that motivated to fix it as there doesn't seem to be much excitement for the game.
If the game doesn't reach 9 players by, say, Sunday, Jun 16 8:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) I'll cancel the game so that someone can post a game with a broader reach.
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Canada11355 Posts
I'd play this one tbh so if someone who doesn't want to play wants to cohost I can at least fill a slot
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On June 03 2019 05:27 Shapelog wrote:
Itch to play now life is calm. Poker is also fun. Idk if I am banned though since it doesnt look like the banlist is updated. If it is though, I'll serve my time
/in or sitout
where the hell have you been?!
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Why not always all-in? Is the only downside you can't fold?
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On June 09 2019 02:27 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2019 13:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:So okay. Basically here is the deal for town: Pair up to a pair of tens: One-use night vest
Pair of jacks - aces: Cop check
Two pair: You become a Veteran
Three of a kind: You become a Cop
Straight: You become a Watcher
Flush: You become a Vigilante
Full house: You become a Day Vigilante
Four of a kind: You become a Mayor You always play your hand when you have green. You always fold when you have red (unless you have gotten a vest before and for some reason mafia hasn't shot you the night after and you didn't use the vest). The red hands are useless because you simply just die the next night without being able to use your power (day vigilante is btw way worse than night vigilante since you're probably dead before your shot if you got day vigilante as town). As mafia you always shoot the person who won the hand. Who cares if they were veteran, then they just don't die. That way town never ever has any power roles and the game just becomes vanilla. Way better for mafia even if town gets one more mislynch. Obviously you can wifom in right places, play the hands which would give you vest / vet as town and even no-kill during night if town does what it is supposed to. Only exception to the rule is mayor, but that doesn't really matter. You probably still just shoot the dude who got mayor and see who dies. The thing here is, this is easily the best play for mafia (until day before lylo / mylo), and whenever mafia plays like this town needs to play like above, unless they are stupid. Now i am not saying this is necessarily a "bad game" or anything, but it completely takes the poker aspect away from the game because your cards don't really matter (other than that some players have a playable hand and some don't). And i think you'd like to have the poker aspect in the game. (Pretty much what happens here is that the best play probably is for everyone to claim their starting hand and work from there based on reads -- who plays and who folds etc, or the red/green thing, i am not sure which is better but for sure those are the best options) ------------------------------------------------------ What i suggest is the following: - remove all showdown's (unless player wants to show their cards) - make it so that it is not announced who won the hand - make it so that on the next round players do not know who won the last round (players who lost the latest hand are only unallowed to go all-in, otherwise they can post whatever they want, even as they don't actually participate to the current round) That way players actually have options to choose from. Do i actually have the best hand? Do i risk it so that i won't be on the next round if i dont win? Do i think my townread is winning this hand, do i want to protect them so that mafia doesn't know who actually won and therefore play with a lesser hand? Does the town need more then one player to protect the town read? What happens if we have X number of players not participating the next round on day X (from both team's perspective)? Do i challenge my mafia read's hand? Does mafia want to bluff? Does mafia want to look like town doing the above? What is the power the winner got? Is the player claiming something next day REALLY the winner of the last round? Are there two townies making a big play rn when there is a claimed red check? Idk, it's your game, but i just think the poker aspect of the game just gets way more interesting if you deny information about the hands won/lost as much as possible. I understand the problem regarding any hand that doesn't have a night save, and I think I should rethink some of the rewards. I'm thinking of making it a point 'marketplace' where the town can purchase which ability they would like, and the amount of points they get is dependant on the strength of their hand. However, I want there to be counterplay from Mafia's side and I don't think with all showdowns being removed it would make it fair for Mafia. The least they deserve is to know who got the ability. However, I'm not that motivated to fix it as there doesn't seem to be much excitement for the game. If the game doesn't reach 9 players by, say, Sunday, Jun 16 8:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) I'll cancel the game so that someone can post a game with a broader reach.
A point market actually would make sense and could be flavored as the winner winning the pot. Prehaps the points could be rewarded not by not how strong the hand is, rather by how many people went to showdown. That would make it so more than the top town read is incentivized to play in the showdown and give mafia an excuse for contesting. However, this could get swinging and RNG dependent for a minigame i suppose (IE everyone calls all in).
On June 09 2019 13:21 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2019 05:27 Shapelog wrote:
Itch to play now life is calm. Poker is also fun. Idk if I am banned though since it doesnt look like the banlist is updated. If it is though, I'll serve my time
/in or sitout where the hell have you been!?
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/VyeGNg0.gif)
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On June 10 2019 00:34 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Why not always all-in? Is the only downside you can't fold?
You can't play in the following round of poker the next day phase if you lose at showdown.
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On June 10 2019 00:45 Shapelog wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2019 00:34 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Why not always all-in? Is the only downside you can't fold? You can't play in the following round of poker the next day phase if you lose at showdown.
Oops missed that
If I had the time I'd play but I'm fairly limited atm
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If this one isn't happening I'd play in a small 9 or 13 player non-theme game setup (for whoever wants to host.)
Don't really want to play a game with so much mechanics discussion atm.
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/in if happening. Will be pretty inactive during next weekend though
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EPT
