EPThavent played in about 3-4years. Dont care if as vet or newbie.
Newbie Student Mafia XXVIII
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havent played in about 3-4years. Dont care if as vet or newbie. | ||
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 Lets get the party started! | ||
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##vote Holyflare Cos i can ! | ||
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Am I by myself? sigh, will check back in 30min. Hopefully this is not an inactive timeslot  | ||
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Mocsta: Hi Holy, Are you my appendix? Holyflare: No Mocsta: Because I don't understand how you work, but this feeling in my stomach makes me want to take you out | ||
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Thoughts to share? Is mderg and mocsta voting Holyflare fake news? Is mderg and mocsta voting Holyflare real news? Is Holyflare response indicative of anything? Heck, is my innovative pickup line worth using in real life? Now before you go town sentiment SCUM! THATS JUST ADVANCED THREAD SUMMARISATION AND LIST PREPARATION How about this, Yes, No, No, Yes Unfortunately, im back where i started... with nothing cept a line, and crappy one at that | ||
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purple haze bruh not interested in why my vote is cast that direction? | ||
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On January 18 2018 12:07 darthfoley wrote: hello comrades On January 18 2018 12:58 darthfoley wrote: who is this mocsta character.... Fear not, for I... am a comrade! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ On January 18 2018 12:58 darthfoley wrote: ... and why is he speaking so much? Because I can, Because I want to, Because I desire to... @DarthFoley: Why do you ask? On January 18 2018 12:49 Kmatt wrote: I didn't think much of the vote unless you're on some 4d-chess game and know him to be scum already. Wise words Kmatt. I want to start calling DarthFoley, AxelFoley... get it + Show Spoiler +Beverly Hills Cop reference. | ||
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On January 18 2018 15:53 rsoultin wrote: ... A holyflare who says hi and scrams when he's at the centre of attention. Though it is late and joke votes obvious, still an itch. Rels hi itchy for similar reasons but less itchy when not center of attention. Darthfoley passive aggression at someone eager to participate ??? (In retrospect this bugs me most at present) Prplhz just needs to be swatted with a newspaper.[b/] Mild itchiness with an eager Damdred not being around for game start, but then, it's Damdred; he could have fallen down a set of stairs @.@ I agree that DF and prplhz need to be fleshed out more. I think DF entrance is the most forced thing I have read so far. As for prplz: I get it is the weekend, but to be so blatant about AFK is just..meh. I think an acceptable backup option at this point - unless DF equally AFKs. The other stuff means nothing to me given timezones and early day1. On January 18 2018 17:18 Holyflare wrote: Also don't take mocsta's enthusiasm as towny. Looks pretty forced and says nothing. This is true. Sucks to talk to yourself On January 18 2018 18:39 mderg wrote: There may be tendencies I have that ppl like HF have vague familiarity with. But i wouldnt call it meta per se. I joined this game for a specific purpose, and that falls outside any notion of "mocsta" meta.Mocsta looks like a crazy person, doesn't tell me anything about his alignment. Maybe someone has some meta knowledge. [B]On January 18 2018 19:26 beentheredonethat wrote: Feels odd, so scummy weird Why does odd default "scummy weird"? Im more a thinker than a feeler - can you detail this out more as im struggling to understand the association? | ||
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On January 18 2018 21:12 beentheredonethat wrote: Feels odd, so scummy weird Why does odd default "scummy weird"? Im more a thinker than a feeler - can you detail this out more as im struggling to understand the association?[/QUOTE] Entry to the thread in an odd/weird way feels constructed/forced, thus my scum association. [/QUOTE] Do you feel breaking the ice at a social gathering is a non-forced thing to do? For most it is a forced thing to do. Why should that differ for early Day 1 patter? See, Im completely cool if you think my intro is constructed or forced. Thats because it is. However, if you had said i was fabricating my intro !! well that would actually annoy me. /night | ||
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Why call me out, ignore me and then throw this? On January 19 2018 05:10 darthfoley wrote: I find it peculiar that you go into detail on why you dont 'understand' BDTD motives; yet, for me, its a simple (and backtrackable): scum alignment.Mocsta can still be scum though. On January 19 2018 05:03 darthfoley wrote: What was this intentionI'm also sus of those of you who scumread me for one post where my intention was pretty clear, if you weren't trying to misrepresent me | ||
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============================ I am concerned... I am seeing a pattern of people issuing town reads (solely) for being congruent with their reads. Does it really bear repeating: Mafia know who the town is! ============================ If you want me to join the town circle-jerk club. Fine: There is only one individual that gives me consitently good feelings and that is + Show Spoiler + TWAT. Why? Because whilst mafia and town have the same priorites during Day1 (i.e. establish innocence); I dont believe mafia are capable of consistently simulating in parallel: - paranoia - confirmation bias / fixed dichotomy mindset - willingness to throw out a position Whilst I dont agree with the conclusions drawn by this player, I dont think the motives are malicious due to the above. ============================ But, I would rather weigh in on nulls and reds. Priority #1: What to make of damerion/damdred case
Whilst I have no qualm with Damdred brushing off the case, i do have a problem with how Damdred clings to the mocsta/DF thread sentiment throughout his filter and case response. "Why doesn't it make sense that they could be scum together (mocsta and DF), they have no real interactions together (yet)...But still a bit much to make a decision either way I suppose. But both are scummy" "But id be happy just lynching moc today anyway." "but also seems like a way to change conversation away from DF and moc who I guess you have at null?" This is wishy washy at best, and non-congruent with the town-play meta argument at worst. I think a town that is +1 bandwagoning would be more likely to get frustrated during this exchange. Especially in day1 when circles are small, and paranoia can be at its peak. This is not present at all. Rather, whilst being poked Damdred remains calculated in response; making it even more intrigruing that a firm opinion is held without a firm base. Uncharacteristic of a measured thinker. Overall, I observe Damdred employing an "appeal to emotion" through reconjuring thread bias without further substantiating or developing it. Whilst, town is capable of using this (typically under confirmation bias) - at what point can it be deduced that Damdred is experiencing confirmation bias?? At what point can it be deduced that Damdred is poking somone, or laying a trap? Rather, I prefer the simplest explanation: that an appeal to emotion is a tactic associated with lazy mafia play. ============================ Priority #2: Other comments of interest Holyflare Im confused by HF - until he "couldnt fathom the mindset" of kelsier, I wasnt actually sure why damdred was voted. On one hand, I feel that HF is constantly prodding people in a constructive manner; On the other hand, whilst he has communicated why he voted damdred, its for reasoning I dont agree with (i.e. focusing on behaviour rather than motive). Am i wrong to expect more? Darthfoley Reads like he is observing the game and commenting for funsies. I dont know how to explain it other than its feels like he is here, yet not actually in the moment?!?! More investigating required. mderg I feel that mderg is trying to post just enough to not be forgotten. Its interesting that the biggest attempt to persuade the thread revolves around shifting the focus from damdred to damerion. "Using the fact that Damdred left the thread is like the weakest reason to push the read I can imagine." Given I think the poke was fair game, i think this is hyperbole from mderg. An interesting connection with potentially interesting timing nonetheless. | ||
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KelsierSC: Is that not the point? Damdred was appealing to thread bias to push scum reads on his behalf...A soft push bruh.Main issue is the damdred discussion... I didn't feel he was really pushing a scum read that hard. KelsierSC: Firstly, Tina hasnt put me in town circle?? Secondly, this is a not a logical conclusion as when reversed: If Tina is mafia and likes enthusiasm; your logic infers it would be a naturally difficult for her to call me mafia... i.e. whether rsoultin is town or mafia, I end up town. I've agreed with most everything that Tina has said and I knew she would like costa. They both post in similair style. Costa's enthusiasm is enough for a tone read pass D1. KelsierSC: I dont understand how you can elicit such a strong opinion when damdred hasnt flipped? I do think Damdred is scummy, so why should others know better? The strong opinion is what makes this feel like a cheap way to open the door to target that wagon.my scummy reads come from people who agree on the damdred wagon when they should probably know better. KelsierSC: What credit? He was trying to sway the case from damdred to damerion?I don't like Mderg I think his disappointment at the thread felt fake and his 10 page hf point was not my experience of hf at all. In general I have disagreed with almost everything he said apart from his agreement that damerion is just too aggro. So I could see Mderg knowing both damdred and damerion are town and trying to get some credit later...maybe im just biased with that . Either you are using too much intraverted intuition to converge possibilities or or intentionally misinterpretting events. KelsierSC: This I do agree with.I like kmatt but just because his 4d chess comment was really funny. | ||
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On January 18 2018 22:38 Damerion wrote: [...] .... <Darthfoley read>,.... ... <Mocsta read>... On January 19 2018 02:29 TheTwatyEvildoer wrote: Its not sealed TWAT.I was worried about him only seeming to have a read on damdred. But it seems strange for him if he is mafia to exclude the other two prime vote targets at the time from his pool. ... Bear in mind this is before the damdred votes piled so it would be a major gamble from him to make it impossible to chase Mcosta Rico and Darthfoley based off current suspecious of them. I felt he was town before, but I think this seals it. Thoughts? This is way too convoluted. Whether town or mafia, Damerion could have done what you were saying. A non-alignment example is to not want to dilute a point with rambling. Lets pretend I am mafia and Damerion is mafia. I dont see a motive to do what you said because Firstly, was there actually any pressure? Secondly, Who actually voted me....? .. No One. Lets pretend I am mafia and Damerion is town. I dont see a motive to do what you said because why cant he focus first on someone he has familiarity with? why does he have to agree with your reads? Whether town or mafia, your reasoning above is not a justification. Which is why i keep coming back to the Damdred soft push on me. As mafia, who wouldnt want to shift the thread Day1 onto an "Easy Target" that has somewhat polarised the thread and is in opposite timezones? | ||
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On January 19 2018 15:06 rsoultin wrote: Welcome, however Im a bit confused here, because I cant tell if you are addressing me; or responding to a comment I wrote to ?Kelsier?@mocsta...I know how this sounds to players who are relatively new, but expecting certain players to see things differently than others isn't strange. It's a function of playing with them enough to get an idea of how they think. I'm not going to pretend that I'm infallible. Reading Damdred is something im good at, though. And I'm pretty confident he's town here. If you put yourself in the shoes of someone thinking a town lynch is being pushed, and you see people jumping on the wagon for flimsy reasons that you believe to be beneath their town play, the natural conclusion then is that they're probably just scum. As for the bold.. ppl jump on wagons all the time. I think its quite pointless to question the antics and sequences, unless a flip connected to the wagon has occured. With your damdred knowledge, as town, is he liable to use an appeal to emotion? | ||
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On January 19 2018 15:11 rsoultin wrote: Nevermind. You kind of did. What is this example of constructive prodding you mentioned? On January 18 2018 17:18 Holyflare wrote: ...Also don't take mocsta's enthusiasm as towny. Looks pretty forced and says nothing. On January 18 2018 21:36 Holyflare wrote: On the train in I thought about taking back my Mocsta read and was gonna come in and announce that but his later posts still don't say anything other than trying to explain why his initial posts feel weird. He's defending himself instead of making the top tier reads. Don't like. On January 18 2018 21:42 Holyflare wrote: Why is mocsta slightly scummy anyway? Not explained it. On January 18 2018 22:35 Holyflare wrote: You just acknowledged he was correct lol. On January 19 2018 04:56 Holyflare wrote: Who are these people calling df scum? As a web of posts, I see an effort to provide small impetus. They arent meaningless posts, rather, they succinctly question the thought process. I dont think in any of these examples he is trying to exert/influence the recipients view point - rather open their thoughts. That is constructive prodding to me. | ||
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I am at no point commenting of damdred becoming emotional. I am commenting on him plucking on the emotions of the thread to push his agenda. Appeal to emotion or argumentum ad passiones is a logical fallacy characterized by the manipulation of the recipient's emotions in order to win an argument, especially in the absence of factual evidence === Re: wagon voters Its not real pressure unless all town are voting. Last I checked, 5 voted, 8 did not vote. There is no real pressure to be lynched at this stage... Thus, I dont view assessing a non-flipped wagon on day1 as legitimate, because town and mafia are equally capable of jumping on for funsies, pressure, laziness <insert another 1000 reasons>. === As for HF, I see a lynch on him at this stage as a hail-mary attempt. If hes mafia, its very destabilising, and almost game over. If hes town, its destabilising and we lose a very good asset. Remember, he would also have 2 team mates... | ||
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In retrospect, I would like to hear HF thoughts on my damdred observations. Whilst I dont like HF voting damdred for behaviour instead of motive; it is also arguable I could only discern motive through a vote on behaviour. My problem is a town or mafia HF could easily say they voted damdred because of the meta case as a prod... where does that get us? | ||
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On January 19 2018 15:36 rsoultin wrote: Whether anyone else agrees or not.. I think the timezone of this game is really impacting certain hours (especially near deadline).. Where im getting at, is the first 12hours of the game was sleep time for lots of people which naturally makes sense with ppl coming in, throwing a post and then disappearing.. HF (and others) are not doing this exclusively to you.. so I shamelessly am writing off a lot of that stuff as a tell/motive.I can see why you think that. The first two were elicited by my engaging him, though. And you'll note he was singularly not constructive when I pressed for elaboration. To me its only more relevant if HF was still doing this to you (i.e. prior to deadline). i.e a pattern has formed of ignoring your prodding. Then you have a request for an explanation, the post that led to his shit reason for scumreading Damdred the likes of which I've seen in previous scum games of his, and a pretty innocuous question. perhaps valid.. i agree on the behaviour vs. motive part.I don't call that constructive. I call that lazy at best and shallow skating by at worst. You have to understand that holyflare is considered to be one of the best players on tl. And his push on Damdred in the context of this nothingness with shit reasoning clinches it for me. i *REALLY* like this from you. I think its very townie to be offended someone you are trying to discern "treats' you that way. Whether your read is right or wrong, I do think you are taking it a little too personal, as there are plenty of reasons this could have happened that are not even mafia/town related.. but just, in-real life related.Like I agree you look bad just defending yourself but your 'crazy' entrance that contributes nothing to a game that hasn't started yet with almost no one posting and you prodding people to respond to you should not be getting scum reads in my opinion. I don't like hf pointing at that. He takes my one slight townread and shits on it for poor reasons while not commenting on any of my other reads. he just made a joke about itch cream. That has obvious scum motivation if you know that I'm town. I felt I understood why HF pointed that out, and it was reinforced by Kelsier assumptino on how you may have read me.. I think Kelsier single handedly destroys your argument. | ||
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On January 19 2018 15:42 rsoultin wrote: He voted him for admitting he says like a lot and is trying to change it. Hf can say what he wants. His filter shows this to be the reason. Also, can you quote what you think is aoe? (1) Im not sure what is "aoe" If you are referring to appeal to emotion by damdred, its in my vote post... whilst brushing off damerion, he keeps trying to casually bring back to the fore mocsta/DF, without substantiating why its relevant or trying to develop it further... to me, the purpose of that is to get others to grab the idea and flesh it out on his behalf... hence appeal to emotion / puppet master play. (2) As for HF I understand to an extent what you are saying; and agree there are points that HF needs to clarify. Best lynch of the day though?? I am still not seeing it. (3) How about we change topic. What are your thoughts on darthfoley and mderg? Since you like wagon timings... what do you think about rels? | ||
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On January 19 2018 15:53 rsoultin wrote: Yes, this is all understood.Let me try to explain why this is nonsense. Damerion lays down a long meta read, including damdred's method of looking for town d1 to narrow down to a scumread (which is true but disregards that this does not preclude Damdred from also getting slight scumreads) and adds this valley girl point: He gets excited and uses like a lot! He's not doing that. Must be scum. Damdred: I noticed that and have been tryin to change it. Holyflare: you admitted to saying like a lot when you're town and you're not doing it! Scum claim! While I can see the coincidence being suspicious hf's response is entirely disingenuous. There is no way that he thinks this makes Damdred slam dunk scum. He is not retarded. Changing the way we post, is behavioural... Its why I said HF voted Damdred for behaviour. I disregard that whole argument as a case, because I too have tried changing my posting style within games. Whilst not a tell... i infer it to be a valid poke that elicited a genuine dodgy response. Having said that, I fail to understand how everyone on the wagon must be scum. Last i checked, there were 4 votes on damdred (if you exclude mine).. and 3 mafia. Are you saying that all 4 mafia reside within: Damerion, Holyflare, TheTwatyEvildoer, Rels Because I am hard green on TWAT. That leaves your scum team as DAmerion, HF, Rels? Please.. tell me more about Rels then. | ||
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you are hard on damdred and you think its completely OK for him to pursue a lead without evidence. Tell me, does this fit within your knowledge of how damdred plays? Everything about him to me reads as measured and carefully considered.. proofing before posting possibly more than twice. Everything is INTENTIONAL... If you have this player that is known to focus on his town-reads first... why then, +1 thread sentiment with no additional reasoning or attempt to probe into me or DF further? Is this really town play to you for a regarded player (to borrow your HF line) | ||
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I will have a think about how I can communicate what I am seeing more clearly.. remember, Im not viewing damdred in isolation of a meta-case. - which you appear to be fixated with. | ||
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tis a good night! | ||
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Tl server crashed so i havent caught up Watching a movie now | ||
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Pressure Day2
Keep by association / Review on Day 3
Circle-Jerk
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On January 19 2018 15:35 Mocsta wrote: nice attempt at a strawman thoughrsoultin, In retrospect, I would like to hear HF thoughts on my damdred observations. Whilst I dont like HF voting damdred for behaviour instead of motive; it is also arguable I could only discern motive through a vote on behaviour. [...] | ||
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On January 20 2018 20:41 Holyflare wrote: I had to read your filter twice to even know what you were talking about.And then you neglected the rest of the game where I elaborated on damdred and used your exact points to further my case, that he was appealing to emotions and trying to get people to unvote him based on that. Then I realised, it could only be this sole whining-to-yourself post "I don't understand why it's so fucking hard to lynch damdred when he's literally doing shit all and makes a post to appease people and fucks off again. It's really quite simple that this is nothing like town damdred at all." Kudos again on the strawman and ad hominem approach. | ||
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Please refer to my 4000 word case below. Why is DF scum Read DF Filter, and dont tell me you dont see this.... + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://lolasrecoverysite.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/outsidelookingin.jpg) Why is HF scum Read HF Filter, and dont tell me you dont see this... + Show Spoiler + and... wait for it. ![[image loading]](https://media1.tenor.com/images/bd7e85e963017a2ae67c845649af98e6/tenor.gif?itemid=7658718) Why does it work together + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://image.ibb.co/kNKc8b/Capture.png) | ||
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It does get boring watching from the outside i gather..... Yawn back at cha | ||
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On January 21 2018 08:40 Holyflare wrote: yea im the vet hfWould like to shoot mocsta 200% though 2 shots pls | ||
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Good work kelsier | ||
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Note hf setting up for day2 lynch focus before damdred flipped Note his day2 target was damdred prime target I asked before if i should expect more from town hf. The answer is unequivocally yes. The lack of activity i get. We are all busy. Its the "confirmation bias" hf is applying kn things that are clearly not alignment indicativr... same thing as darthfoley. Since when is a case built on "minutia" indicative of town or mafia to quote df. Btw... check out kelsier reads before lynch and the kill is staring to make lots of sense | ||
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He is harder to lynh as the game goes on Whether town or scum I actually think damerion stupid caae/poke on a good town player is more likely to originate feom town. Almost suicide if scum... outcome is clear from the current sentiment... To me focus for this lynch is holyflare mderg and perhaps damerion. I still like twat regardless of disappearing. | ||
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Good point abouy prplhz Its odd he isnt up to date with thr game yet knows to trust your vote? Quiten brazen if town now i think about it more | ||
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Holyflare is the guy that calls damdred scum for thinking me and darthfoley are scum Yet thinks im scum with damdred..... Town hf is not this infallible | ||
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On January 20 2018 06:33 Holyflare wrote: [...] No particular order in brackets. Prplhz is town. | ||
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the nitpicking case reminds me of the bullshit he stated for me being scum. So i think mderg summary below is accurate. On January 21 2018 19:14 mderg wrote: So this is where I'm at: Day One Final Vote Count Damdred (4): Damerion, Holyflare, TheTwatyEvildoer, beentheredonethat (4): darthfoley (3): Damdred, KelsierSC, rsoultin Holyflare (0): prplhz (0): Not Voting (2): Kmatt, beentheredonethat Its not unheard of for scum to not vote, but its not something I would be willing to consider at this stage. Even with 2 town being prime bandwagon, the fact that DF was semi-close to a lynch should force a scum kmatt to vote. So kmatt is effectively green for today. Im still green on TWAT + Rels 2 scum within: damerion, HF, mderg, prplhz If damdred is the player everyone says he is, its quite the mastermind effort to facillitate a lynch him day1. This points to HF for me by default. need to know why Hf thinks prplhz is town. gonna start looking into mderg in more detail | ||
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its a series of list posts / summary posts and more lists and summaries. the vote on btdt is congruent with his list post so the timing makes sense as mafia or town. the main part confusing me, is that if mafia, he is playing "lone wolf" style. im kinda leaning, hipster-townie on mderg.. sigh... | ||
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stop being a doo-doo going post by post in filter is stupid.. timestamps bruh. so much of what you said is blatantly false... step up and throw real shit | ||
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prime example is selling the damdred case by saying it initiated it. - i.e. appeal to authority | ||
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On January 21 2018 21:23 Holyflare wrote: Seriously, you're really starting to agitate me with this continual reachingI don't think what I've said is blatantly false. After damdred flipped and I said Mocsta next he accused myself and df of being mafia for nothing. I said this was massively convenient and shouldn't be a normal progression based on me sharing the same MOTIVE read on damdred. He said he had no idea what I was talking about and then quoted what I said. So he had to go back and actually find stuff because he hadn't read me. He is calling things scummy and not researching. On January 19 2018 11:55 Mocsta wrote: I never agreed with your rationale behind voting Damdred[...] Priority #1: What to make of damerion/damdred case
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what are you vibing from mderg? | ||
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On January 21 2018 22:21 Holyflare wrote: Precisely why i commented on your vagueness prior...That thing you've highlighted literally says it has nothing to do with his alignment and isn't what I'm talking about at all. As an aside, I truly do not remember you being such a poor communicator. I am an overly intuitive person, and I am struggling to keep up with where you believe you are going. | ||
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On January 20 2018 05:26 Damerion wrote: in hindsight .. i dont like this postJust got off shift, apologies. Listen to me, yes it is possible I am tunneled upon my friend Damdred. However look at his actions around this lynch. He has no interactions with BTDT, no interactions with Mocsta, No real interactions with DarthFoley. And yet someone who thrives on interactions and town hunting has no dynamic shifts in his reads. And yet has come up with these reads that do not change and he pushes withbsupreme confidence. This is not the day one Damdred who flip flops and changes with the wind. Also look at how he is handling the lynch, he just wants to get the vote knto Darthfoley and secure it away from himself without encouraging discussion. I understand I am hyper focused but if you look at my past games I am generally right. So please follow me. Note the capital No mid sentence.. reflects to me an importance om darthfoley Want to hear more from this guy. Tell me about mderg pls | ||
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so then is prplhz a lottery vote, or most confident to hit scum vote? Or, no one is talking, im gonna light a fire vote? | ||
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On January 19 2018 08:34 prplhz wrote: I have very little time who are you voting for rsoultin? However, just realised this.... On January 20 2018 08:10 prplhz wrote: Interesting that without a read he knows he can "trust" rsoultin, but not enough to even consider a vote on darthfoley.I will vote beentheredonethat. He's a veteran but I haven't played with him and he's got some votes. Would vote with rsoultin but she's voting darthfoley and I'm not lynching him D1 before reading the thread. I'll be more active, promise. Also Mocsta is scum for voting me. ##Vote beentheredonethat ##Vote: prplhz | ||
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On January 21 2018 20:55 Holyflare wrote: How is this remotely close to what I posted above. Seriously...[...]Also don't care about lynching into prplhz/Damerion anymore. Thought prplhz donating his vote to you was towny but he didn't vote with you so definitely lynch. Damerion has no follow up. Nothing to give. Would rather lynch prplhz though over him until he posts. | ||
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still think its crap though | ||
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what a misrepresentation. When I checked for defintion: "When the pot calls the kettle black" on wikipedia.. + Show Spoiler + a portrait of HF appeared Seriously, this game is ez street. Its most likely 6-2 on Day3. Damerion lynched = 6-1 -> 5->1 Even the town afk players can win with those odds. To be pragmatic about it, all us here still giving are shit. pains me say: are town.. yes, including you hf. Scum is in the afk stack (TWAT/Kmatt/damerion) Rsoultin case is pretty fuckn good. I wish I had read it before the deadline. So damerion is auto lynch. Between twat/kmatt, can afford a mislynch. Only chance of us losing is if BTDT and darthfoley were bussing. Yes its plausible, but that doesnt mean the most likely scenario. Simple solution guys....its now just a boring waiting game. /night | ||
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Its that with this game at a record low 36pages. I truly think the only people that still care are town. You cant take that away from hf. I would hate to lose the game because he is frustratingly obnoxious. | ||
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In prior post Giving are shit Was meant to say Giving A shit Completely different meaning | ||
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Re mafia caring If darthfoley damerion and an afk are scum.. i can see plenty of reasons to be demotivated afyer the vig shot. Especially afyer df was almost lynched. Game prob felt like it was 12-1 instead of 10-3 Thats all i will comment on thata | ||
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I have a problem communicating my intraveeted intuition or "leaps of faith". And of course many times it was also wrong Well i did a few years back at least. Either way. Prob of no relevance to this game In the end. My early play got the reactions feom darthfoley that led to him being caught. So was effective to some degree. | ||
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I know it doesnt seem possible but entj can feel!! That hurt me deep ?tina?! | ||
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It was to stimulate convo The df outcomr was an unintended sand pleasant surprise | ||
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It was more than that And even f it wasnt.. Ohh well. It was put in a format that i couldnt stop nodding my head. Being right doesnt mean ppl agree.. i thought you would k ow that by now... | ||
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Be back later Hf no idea if you were referring to me and in what context | ||
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On January 23 2018 21:14 Rels wrote: dunno if DF makes his first post on mocsta, especially with that aggressive attitude, if they're partners. I know he was aggressive to me too later, saying something like "explain to me, and precisely please." If DF isn't a very good scum the game could be solved maybe. Lol this is what i mean with unplanned and pleasant outcome My opening was unconventional by todays standards so looks like easy shade to throw If anything. Whethee good or bad scum. He should ignore my entrance or force me to talk to establish better innocence. | ||
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Reminder to discuss this post game. This is a fascinating conversation. | ||
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On January 23 2018 21:58 rsoultin wrote: Actually...even though I felt he was organic before, it is odd that twatty apparently had mocsta and darth foley as scum, but not together, but instead interacts with pretty much everyone but them. Even Damdred. Who he votes as a 'placeholder' until his scumreads talk more? I cant believe i didnt notice this I just thought he was an over enthusiastic tunneled townie To be honesr. Reminded me of my newbie games Yea I realise this dosnt look good for me. | ||
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On January 23 2018 22:01 Holyflare wrote: It's different absolutely from his other games but it's just my points that I'm hesitant over. Knowing mafia so well it's counter intuitive to me to raise a meta point that's going to backfire and be wrong or get disproven. How you perceive good play is not how others do. He probably raised the case to get discussion away from darthfoley and didnt expect it to stick which was in unplanned due to damdred reaction | ||
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Intent was outside hf and rsoultin actually and rather talking to different persoanlities and values in general. Anyways. Wont clog this. Not game directly related | ||
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Shows much you are paying attwntoion.... Jeez annoying isnt it | ||
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On January 23 2018 22:41 rsoultin wrote: True, the placeholder vote still is an oddity. Why if you have two scumreads? The key is whether its acceptable for twat to have issue with damdred reaction. That appears to be the trigger for his vote 2 posts later. The thing to bear in mind is. Say twat is scum on me and darth We have to consider him voting damdred who is also scum on me and darth. With the kicker that tjey were debating bussing with twat completely against Its now more than just he voted differently to his top reads. Its the contradiction in rationale. Im not sure even me as a tunneles townir would do that | ||
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On January 23 2018 22:48 mderg wrote: i read iy differently.He mentions Mocsta nearly as much as df tbh. Lots of his posts that mention df are in relation to Damdred having df and Mocsta in his scum pile. The amount of focus he puts on the df and Mocsta scumreads from Damdred is much more unsettling to me. Rather he thought one of dafth and mocsta is scum. But wasnt sure which. Its the convo bits with damdred that made me think he was tunneled lol. Wjat do you find unsettling? | ||
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Try: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/529865-newbie-student-mafia-xxviii?page=38#754 | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/529865-newbie-student-mafia-xxviii?page=35#683 | ||
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On January 24 2018 04:32 Holyflare wrote: lolMocsta is my biggest town read too | ||
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Hi Jat Need your thoughts on damerion please. There is a case and respond available on page40. | ||
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##Vote: Damerion | ||
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On January 24 2018 09:08 Holyflare wrote: Godfather possible though | ||
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On January 24 2018 09:06 Damerion wrote: actually, I think the opposite is more likely.Also to give plenty of time for discussion and since I believe it clears more than myself anyway. Hard claiming cop Night One I checked Mocsta before my shift and it returned green. Night two I checked Beentheredonethat and it returned green. Holyflare caught me softing it and i seem to think it makes him town for me not being shot. He was already prepped to insinuate godfather. | ||
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On January 24 2018 09:10 Holyflare wrote: So for the record: DarthFoley, TWAT/JAT, Mocsta is your team?Jat replaced into a hardcore mafia slot though How about this. If you genuinely think im the godfather, push me. Otherwise, shut up and let JAT post. I need to think about this cop claim. Whether cop or mafia, Damerion can rightly say im town. The BTDT green-check is not unexpected either. damerion why check me night 1? | ||
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On January 24 2018 03:12 Damerion wrote: so a check was burnt to confirm the outcome of the darthfoley/btdt day1 wagons. I think BTDT could be scum, there might be a reason to check into him a bit more. DarthFoley could of been distancing himself slightly or just trying to save himself when he voted but doubtful when I think Damdred was the lynch and not many were interested in switching. So perhaps i'll check into him tonight. where does this get us now? "Confirmed" Damerion BTDT Mocsta "High Likely Town" Rels mderg Holyflare "PoE" TWAT(Jat) Kmatt In HF eyes, Kmatt/Mocsta are transferable. Regardless, a lot of this lines up as I truly believe the ppl posting every day care about this game and are town. The question is whether a cop would proactively scum hunt Day 1. The whole issue is, many of us saw the DAmdred meta as a poke. and it was the lack of understanding of the reaction that snowballed into a wagon. Why cant a cop call someone out? Going to mull on this. Want to hear from JAT in the meantime. | ||
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On January 24 2018 09:20 Holyflare wrote: fair enough. but debating game mechanics is not alignment indicative.I'm prepped to insinuate godfather because so far only a goon has flipped and vigilante and cop is not balanced against goon/goon/goon so mafia will have a rber/gf/framer somewhere in there. I'm thinking a rber to counter vig and cop and a gf because it's passive and won't fuck with cop and inordinate amount. This is stupid because if I red-checked you would vote, and if I green-checked you would say godfather. Why cant BTDT be a godfather? This is now blatant bias. Again, if you want me to be Day3 focus, go ahead. But front up instead of peppering little comments around. You are actually making the thread harder for the inactives. I am going to take the position that the outcome above is unintentional (i.e. no done maliciously) | ||
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On January 24 2018 14:13 beentheredonethat wrote: I got roleblocked twice in a row Why not comment on this during Day2? | ||
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If BTDT is scum (i.e. godfather) and checked green. why come out with this? (1) like... lets say we believe BTDT... then damerion flips cop... BTDT is auto lynch next cycle. Thats just totally stupid. (2) Perhaps both are scum, and want one of them to ride this to the end. Its not that bad a strategy, now that I think about it. Intent would be to lynch Damerion, who flips anything but cop. I just think the idea in general is too crazy... what this game is normally 2 blues? This play is forcing an either/or situation which just seems suicidal for scum? if BTDT is town... (1) I dont get withholding the info Day2. Re-reading the darthfoley vote On January 20 2018 04:58 Conversion wrote: Given damdred is town, why did he jump onto BTDT.. Did he read rsoultin as biggest town cred and wanted to +1; or did it not matter because damdred/btdt are town?Day One Vote Count Damdred (4): Damerion, Holyflare, TheTwatyEvildoer, beentheredonethat (5): rsoultin, KelsierSC, mderg, Rels, darthfoley Not Voting (4): Kmatt, beentheredonethat, damdred, prplhz So this becomes relevant On January 20 2018 04:39 rsoultin wrote: But since you're here, where are you on mocsta? On January 20 2018 04:48 darthfoley wrote: [talks about mocsta...] So yea he's still on my scum list. Also ##Vote: BTDT On January 20 2018 04:50 darthfoley wrote: So it would appear he is trying to appease Rsoultin by voting with her lead; but moreso, that he then shits on Rsoultin below.Atm I think BTDT/Mocsta/Kelscier are decent chances to hit scum. Rsoultin as well Thats what I dont get. This allows him to remove his vote and put it on Me/Kelsier at any point. Im stuck. If BTDT is town, DF vote didtn matter. Damdred or BTDT were getting lynched with 4/4. If BTDT is scum, DF vote was a little risk, but still didtn matter because damdred reached 4 first. Was taking a gamble on afk action. i think thats pretty unlikely action for day1 scum. This would suggest BTDT is town, damerion is lying. thoughts people? | ||
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Nice pickup on vig/cop About to pull my coffee machine apart - wish me luck | ||
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the problem with the darthfoley vote on btdt, is that it came about after talkign with rsoultin (who was voting btdt) hard to say if it was to appease a high town cred person, or an easy town wagon to sheep. The complexity comes in that his next post he calls rsoultin scum. (amongst btdt/me and kelsier) if you want to look @ end of wagon, it comes down to whether scum would risk bussing btdt if one of the 2 afk suddenly voted. i think its very expected on day1 for everyone to vote (heck, everyday, everyone should vote).. so i dont like a world where scum btdt/df were hoping the afks wouldnt hammer btdt. | ||
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On January 24 2018 18:05 justanothertownie wrote: The only thing I see in his filter is that he apparently got rbed twice. well roleblocker is more synonymous with vig + protective role whilst godfather with cop. i.e. likely that scum have an RB. | ||
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On January 24 2018 18:55 beentheredonethat wrote: I wasn't there over the last days. It doesnt matter anymor but.. this is bullshit.. you voted on day2.. | ||
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On January 24 2018 19:59 mderg wrote: I don't like the cop claim. Damerion was the prime lynch target and I don't think the checks provide useful information. that made me chuckle | ||
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On January 24 2018 20:32 Holyflare wrote: Oh derp maybe I should have read op. Rbs are notified even if player is vanilla. There is also no jk possible. Nai lol | ||
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Nominates for funniest moment 2018 | ||
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Mafia is 2/12 chance night1 if gf is im play Or 3/12 without.. so 25/75 But yes. Valid point regarsless | ||
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On January 24 2018 23:01 Rels wrote: Dont worry, my vote is staying where it isSo, when you add the fact that it's basically the best moment to claim if you're scum, given that you're the prime lynch candidate, it's difficult to believe you. However, this batch of discussion (including JAT) is tunneled. Town or Mafia would feel pressured after Night2. I could see a blue hardclaiming in that circumstance. This is essentially a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't scenario. It doesnt matter though, the setup makes the claim extremely unlikely. However, I was having trouble sleeping last night thinking of all the different perutations with this setup. One oddity I couldnt get past regarding the the BTDT roleblock claim, is that the vet can be roleblocked for 1-shot NK. Wouldnt ideal strategy be then to RB+NK? Otherwise, vet can not only claim they are reason there was no NK, but can also claim the RB which makes them confirmed town. I still cant fathom at all how a townie could vote to avoid modkill, but avoid sharing the roleblock knowledge. The timing of everything is just frustrating. | ||
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On January 25 2018 01:29 Holyflare wrote: NAIWhat was the correct reaction? You have to see it from my perspective tbh. I spend the game looking at Damerion giving him the massive benefit of the doubt and crumbing cop all night so I'm excited that I was actually right. Then btdt claims rb on my way into work and I'm deflated af because I think it's a cc and my ego takes another hit at being wrong so I just auto vote Damerion and go to work (which is super busy) and don't care much more than that. why cant mafia be excited to find a cop crumb? especially if one of them is Godfather... | ||
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On January 25 2018 01:36 beentheredonethat wrote: Slow down. Not true.You're just repeating what I said already  . I'm a bit torn on that matter. I dont want to talk anymore about this fake-cop claim. But a dead cop is the same as a dead townie. Remember, if damerion was a "mislynch", the game would be in LYLO next cycle. There are (perceived) valid reasons for even a town player to "fake-claim" in that scenario - unfortunately. In the end, damerion is mafia. We know it, he knows it. Anything he says is likely to be filled with WIFOM. DONT DRINK THE WINE! That Kelsier post may be the key to why he was shot night 1. Thats the type of WIFOM i prefer to talk about. | ||
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On January 25 2018 08:19 Holyflare wrote: What about them?You are massively missing Kmatt's posts. | ||
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HF lynched damdred for a reaction he believes wasnt anti-town play Now Rels has pinged HF in the same reaction loop. And HF doesnt want a bar of it lol. | ||
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On January 25 2018 08:16 Holyflare wrote: No, im saying you are presenting biased position.what does this even mean? are you saying damerion is the cop? "im town, i was excited to find the cop crumb" well, if anything, mafia are more excited is the other side of the coin. NAI. | ||
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On January 25 2018 08:27 Mocsta wrote: The whole irony of this is: HF lynched damdred for a reaction he believes was Now Rels has pinged HF in the same reaction loop. And HF doesnt want a bar of it lol. | ||
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I will admit my first read is compelling, and you made me nod my head. In particular, given that this individual is self-admittedly barely reading the game: the godfather instant assertion I think is a bona fide point to raise. The non-congruence is potentially NAI as it may be be associated with reading in pockets of time. You have motivated me to look through his filter in more depth, bbs | ||
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On January 25 2018 08:35 Holyflare wrote: I hate this saying, but at this point I will agree to disagree.No, mafia is only excited if he's the actual cop. And you're saying he's not the actual cop... ergo... Its not worth shitting the thread up on this matter any further. mafia are excited to find blue crumbs, and obviously also excited when the blue is manifested. /end | ||
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sublte confidence when responding to reads on town players e.g On January 18 2018 12:49 Kmatt wrote: [re: prplhz] I didn't think much of the vote unless you're on some 4d-chess game and know him to be scum already. On January 20 2018 01:51 Kmatt wrote: This is of note as HF pointed out, because, there is nothing to represent why the reaction WAS NOT seriously incriminating.Also I don't see myself voting Damdred today unless he does something seriously incriminating. [..]. Its also interesting that his activity spikes to peak levels following the cop play, with an intent to draw a claim. On January 25 2018 03:45 Kmatt wrote: lmao no. If I see a counterclaim of any other blue I would hang him on the spot. The fact that no townie is taking an easy 1-for-1 tells me that he wasn't bullshitting. The other point of interest is the Day1 vote. On January 20 2018 09:00 kitaman27 wrote: After DF flipped, I thought that a scum kmatt would HAVE to vote as too risky for foley.Day One Final Vote Count Damdred (4): Damerion, Holyflare, TheTwatyEvildoer, beentheredonethat (4): darthfoley (3): Damdred, KelsierSC, rsoultin Not Voting (2): Kmatt, beentheredonethat Damdred has been lynched. However, when you re-look at the order the votes came in, the line-in-the-sand was quite firmly drawn (i.e. existing vote count was committed).. so even if BTDT voted on DF, Damdred would still be lynched for getting to 4 votes first. Its an interesting observation with hindsight now, because kmatt actually had the power to lynch btdt to save df. | ||
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Found this lol "also we can make the basic assumption based on our roles that there's 2 town PRs. likely 1 cop/vigi and 1 doc/vet" | ||
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Thoughts on kmatt stuff above? | ||
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Howevee the day1 lynch would only hit darthfoley if both absentee voters placed their votes together. If the two absent voters are town. Scum should be panicked given dameriom and dathfoley were locked on thrir targrts. However if one of the absent voters is scum. Well. Darthfoley was never at risk of being lynched. | ||
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On January 25 2018 22:51 justanothertownie wrote: i thought the first part was quite solid acutallyNot a lot. Doesn't really convince me. Sure, I don't have a good reason to think kmatt is town but this stuff does not do it for me. Especially the first part of HFs post just looks like he is trying to paint something weird as scummy when it is just weird. I dont understand town motivation for this from any perspective. Why cant weird correlate with scummy? The wholr point of this game is to catch people acting awkward because they are being intentionally psychopathic? | ||
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On January 25 2018 22:53 justanothertownie wrote: I also do not award scumpoints for defending damerion this phase and have no idea why HF does. Not sure if this is a typo As can be construes that you are awarsing HF toen points lol Im pretty sure this isnt what you meant | ||
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One weird interaction in isolation may be meaningless This is about multiple weird events and improved context given flips. For a guy that doesnt have firm scum reads.. he sure as heck has excellent town reads through these "weird" comments and no explanation | ||
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Anything to do with damerion today is wifom Eslecially because thread absence does not ewuate to qt absence I think caution should br applied in particular when he also was fishing for a counter claim Definitely not pro town mkve. Even more so with coaching factor | ||
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Gf or mafia Pretty obvious choice to me... | ||
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On January 26 2018 01:10 mderg wrote: inject more wifomimo kmatts play is more likely to come from scum than from town. That doesn't necessarily mean that he is scum, though. I can imagine the role wifom coming from a uncertain town player. Even with coach..... | ||
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Did you get ya garlic jnr outfit? | ||
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Damerion was 99% | ||
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Whats less from a townie perspective Discussing blue claim during night with no blue nk Or fishing for roles during after cc? | ||
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On January 26 2018 16:51 beentheredonethat wrote: not a good ideaMy suggestion is the following: lynch Holyflare. Should he flip town, let's lynch whoever he scumread. Game is potentially lylo with a mislynch next cycle Just because a town holyflare scum reads someone. Doesnt mean they are scum Frankly i prefer kmatt as a lynch to holyflare I believe all people present feom day1 to now care too much to be scum. Hf is in this group... being wrong doesnt mean being scummy. Kmatt has only picked up activity since cop claim which could be a scum teamm all-in play Further. I havent been convinced that the stuff hf and me picked out aboit kmatt is non scummy | ||
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On January 26 2018 15:22 justanothertownie wrote: indeed. Caught out on setup for the super all-in.Ha, he was the rb too. You are welcome town. Twat was town and so is jat | ||
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Will look into this further | ||
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On January 26 2018 17:57 Rels wrote: pls tell me this is another game?YOU RE TALKING ABOUT A DUDE THAT LIVED TWO LYNCHES WITH A RED CHECK. "mm yeah he seems a little more active than the other dude, guess I'll lynch that other dude" IT DOESNT WORK THAT WAY | ||
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On January 26 2018 17:55 Rels wrote: notedI this is annoying. I CREATED A COPYPASTA ABOVE WHOSE SOLE PURPOSE WAS TO FIGHT THIS: "I believe all people present feom day1 to now care too much to be scum. Hf is in this group... being wrong doesnt mean being scummy." NO. HF as scum has zero, 0, ZERO problem faking this. And it's 100% wrong he cared since D1, rsoul and I actually thought the only townie thing about him during N2 was that he was NOT caring enough ... You CANNOT compare Kmatt and HF's play directly. It doesn't not work. Thinking about it furthwr. It doesnt matter anyway. Scum is either kmatt or holyflare and we have enough mislynches available to do both Regardless, I will make a committment to look into holyflare with open eyes. | ||
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On January 26 2018 18:24 Rels wrote: hmmm i can see that working actuallyThat makes no sense too. In your scenario, Kmatt tried to save Damerion well after everybody else voted him and thought the claim was fake. It was no an all-in play, it had 0 chance of working. It's way, way more likely that it's just was Kmatt was thinking. If you're looking for an all-in play from the scum team, I'll give it to you: - Damerion hints that he's cop during the night - HF hints that he understands Damerion is blue during the night - Damerion claims cop during the day, and uses HF's hints to townread HF - HF backs up Damerion's claim, saying it makes sense - When the rest of the town don't believe Damerion, he changes his mind Heck once the cop claim came i took my vote off Its australia day and im drunk. Will reevaluaye kmatt and holyflare if i make it to tomorrow | ||
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Like american independance day | ||
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I know bastille day but not la fete nationale | ||
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Even when i learnt french it was referred to as bastille day | ||
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On January 26 2018 20:24 Holyflare wrote: the only benefit of this is a vetI'll just say for added wifom that I'd be rbing absolutely everyone that I kill instead of btdt. Mafia can rb themselves too Wifom indeed | ||
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On January 26 2018 20:26 justanothertownie wrote: i think this verges on hf damdred issue ofThat's entirely possible. But if you rb someone other than your kill you definitely rb the same person again. I play this way Anything else is scummy One plausible option is that mafia thought btdt is a role but not worth an nk Rb is a safe neutralisation Another plausible option is that mafia are self claiming rb Another plausible option is what you said Its all wifom | ||
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Having saod that. Mafia day1 buses occur It happened 2 newbies ago with tubesoxk and ritoky | ||
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On January 26 2018 20:47 Rels wrote: that is an interestimg point to considerScum decides what the roleblock target is. So you CANNOT use it as something to create reads. Scum will ask themselves the question: "What's the most favorable thing we can do with the roleblock ?" If that's roleblocking BTDT because then it's weird that BTDT is roleblocked and becomes a lynch candidat because of that, they will do it. TLDR: dont' base any read on something the scum have 100% control on. Cause they thought about the implications before you. As mentioned i will review hf and kmatt equally Bith in my mind will be innocent until proven guilty | ||
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I feel super aweaome on my bastille day equivalent... | ||
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Twat was towny But jat has done a very good follow up to be even townier and lead the defeat of a fake claim So wkll say the same | ||
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On January 26 2018 21:11 Holyflare wrote: Sorry, I couldnt resist.. my q: pun intended?You think I'm mafia. It should be simple to point to something in the game that makes me mafia that I haven't explained and I'll tell you why I did what I did at any given point in the game. If you're unsure on me then it's the least you could do. To everyone else that isn't quite so tunnelled please ask kmatt to do the same. Ask him for his thought process over his reads on n1 and then where his head was at throughout the game. Don't just let him cop out on his return and say hf is mafia because he hadn't mentioned me the entirety of the game and even this cycle said he wouldn't lynch me but now there's a push I'm up there. but yes, i agree with this. information is only WIFOM after a flip, not before. | ||
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stop being doo-doo heads tahts an exact replica of what we discussed hes either confirmed town, or confirmed scum yes 100% confirmed. what isnt is alignment.. i know you are trying, but take a nap please. | ||
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you guys are bickering over your ideologies of how to play the game right its stupid. yes teh fakeclaim is unlikley, but its certainly not 100% confirmed. | ||
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Like this converdation is ridiculous Id yoy want ro discuss strategy then weigh all options Its the definition od tunneled and im glad at least rels can see it Again Ifnyou want ro say btdt 99% town go ahead. I tend to agree. However btst is not 100% confirmed in amy way shape or form Frankly ita disgraceful to perpetuate that type of non sense to people not reading this as analytically | ||
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By definition it is not "confirmed" I dont give a shit anymore Bye | ||
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On January 26 2018 22:46 justanothertownie wrote: preciselyIt is very very simple. Mafia either rbed btdt or they for whatever weird and unlikely reason DID NOT USE THEIR ROLEBLOCK AT ALL. Because any rbed townie would have claimed the rb. You dont knoe Yoy are making an educated assumption and feigning thid as a if you had a cop check | ||
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Bullshit Btdt is town "unless" Dont say near confirmed.... | ||
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Everyone ahould be approaching this day with open eyes and ears | ||
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Open your eyes In your mind you made a statement about in your words "neae confirmed" Now one has openly interpretted as 100% confirmed and thenother indicates full agreement via "smart" Ithink its relevant and will leave that as my last words. | ||
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I shall indulge you though as i agree that kmatt cant go thrkugh this cycle withoiut updating reads ##vote: kmatt | ||
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On January 27 2018 23:05 Holyflare wrote: rels led the damerion vote thay dayWouldn't say 100%, there's a chance that they were all afk enough to just not submit actions but it's close enough. The vote from df, the rbs etc etc. Mderg I dunno, pretty hesitant because reading back on him he's not actually said that much at all and seems to be overplaying his df read but his vote on damerion over pprlhz is pretty good for him. I also felt he was a bit towny on d1. It's weak but it's more than I have for the others. Mderg was last on that wagon Do you tjink rels could have bussed? | ||
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On January 27 2018 23:09 Holyflare wrote: I think Mocsta's reaction to the btdt rb situation looked really bad like he wanted to keep all his options open on who to lynch somehow. Maybe. He's voting to save me so he can't be all that bad. Fair enough. Still recovering from sun stroke but i realised today i didnt pick up on vig shot firing meaning no rb sent to kelsier. All makes sense to me now. Take it however yoy want | ||
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On January 27 2018 23:34 justanothertownie wrote: u werent in gameRels did not lead that vote. He saw how I caught damerions fakeclaim and pounced. Which is the correct play regardless of his alignment. Day2 bro | ||
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On January 28 2018 04:28 justanothertownie wrote: :/ Just wanted to voice my disagreement with mocstas "rels lead the damerion wagon day2". He just parked his vote there and that's basically it. Same goes for mderg. i realised that later on too basically after HF wrote about mderg i went to his fitler, where nothing specifically indicates a vote checked vote thread and it stated with rels then checked rels filter and it was a rsoultin +1 so yes agree, but wasnt worth updating | ||
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On January 28 2018 07:32 beentheredonethat wrote: thats a better outcome than continuing to throw a vote that way if you dont think JAT is scuml or modkillingIf you're not scum I'll probably not sign up with you again because that'll make shit enjoyable for both of us. lets not talk about about jat further why do you think me or mderg may not be town - regardless of cop claim. | ||
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On January 28 2018 01:09 Kmatt wrote: Why do you raise the RB item as a town tell? Setup mechanics as per this discussion can be deciphered from front-page, as enough information was released from NK to all parties.Anyway as for the current gamestate. JaT: Town. Twat was mostly a townread until I started suspecting him towards the end of D1/D2, but JaT has filled the shoes nicely. Also for noticing the BTDT roleblock thing. Only a mafia player managing a 5D chessboard would have thought to fake that so far in advance. BTDT: Town by power of claim What triggers you to feel the tunneling is townie?Mderg: Not a ton of impact but nothing scummy. A lot of the claims he threw out, especially early seemed a little too bold for typical mafia. Not sure if that's his meta or whatever but I can townread him easily enough. Rels: A bit of buddying, and definitely goes against the grain by believing in me, but I see it as towny tunneling on HF. If he believes HF is scum then he has to be able to excuse me. Mafia!Rels would be just as happy to have the easy lynch (Me) to be next in line if he knew HF was going to flip green. Holyflare: still want to lynch him Noted. Its all conjecture regardless (from my PoV).mcosta: Don't have a hard read on this guy, but while looking over the filter I'll take this minute to claim that there was no ulterior motive to not voting D1. I had been in the thread earlier, hadn't made up my mind on voting, went out to do something that night an checked in on the thread realizing that I didn't actually know when the deadline was. Also I don't know what his shtick is with the BTDT not-being-confirmed business. Do you think Damerion/DarthFoley have any odd interactions with people still alive? | ||
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On January 28 2018 07:55 mderg wrote: c'mon man, thats not helpingI always like to read arguments that have been blown out of proportion on the internet. btdt and jat clearly have some sort of history, and no need for this to continue bubbling. | ||
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On January 24 2018 03:12 Damerion wrote: As for kmatts forced 5D chesboard joke,I think BTDT could be scum, there might be a reason to check into him a bit more. DarthFoley could of been distancing himself slightly or just trying to save himself when he voted but doubtful when I think Damdred was the lynch and not many were interested in switching. So perhaps i'll check into him tonight. I think the key to the BTDT RB being genuine or planned comes down to this "check" going to re-read darthfoley case on btdt from day1 | ||
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DF was the first to call out BTDT but the last to vote he even calls people scummy for acknowleding his BTDT post, but then calling DF scummy. Going to have to re-read Day1 progression now, to see if DF was "forced" to vote that way | ||
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On January 28 2018 08:11 mderg wrote: why check btdt in the first place.I don't quite understand what the RB has to do with that "check" if town and RB, knew he would be green so its "early" information if scum and faking RB, knew it would support the cop check even once hes lynched as RB remember, the RB claim came after the cop check Damerion filter seems very constructed and methodical, so its whether the bTDT check lines up with the uncertainty he was trying to express in the thread. kids woken up, so will look into this later. ciao. | ||
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On January 28 2018 10:14 beentheredonethat wrote: But survival is through active mislynches, no?That's not an actual argument though. There's only one scummer left so scum's first goal right there is survival, not active mislynches. As town, you're not supposed to "paint someone scummy". You're supposed to genuinely read a person and try to find out the alignment. You say "I'm pro-town because I am not painting someone else as scummy just to survive". Yeah, okay, granted, but you're also not giving out genuine reads then. If you'll be confirmed by death, why not try to actually convince people into lynching your strongest scumread after you're dead? the issue i have with looking too far beyond that is it fosters a sense of distrust where it may not be necessarily; and in some ways is even detrimental. Our goal is still the same though, end this ASAP. This cycle appears unlikely, so next. Now, I do think HF is being the most sincere he has been all game. The tone of everything is quite different at his "deathbed" for lack of a better word. Its a case of, once I flip, read through knowing you can trust this rational point of view that. Therefore, the main thing i want to know at this point is who town!holyflare thinks should be primarily finger of suspicion tomorrow. | ||
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the best thing you are doing this cycle is remaining calm dont get stirred, once posts are emotional, its hard to see the logic. keep it up, im finding value in what you are saying. | ||
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On January 28 2018 13:12 Holyflare wrote: prplhz had that interaction where he refused to consider darthfoley with no reasoning IIRC.@Mocsta: I cba to read your filter but why did you lynch prplhz over Damerion on d2? Also, who do you think the last mafia is if it wasn't me? I still think the game is with Kmatt. I have noted your comments on Rels being a slimy scum player, so will need to read the recent yelling wars between you two in more detail - will be easier to push myself to critically read this when im bored at work. on weekends, kids come first On January 28 2018 13:16 Holyflare wrote: Also mocsta why did you go from not voting me today to voting me but also asking for more stuff from me? i voted you today as its a dead vote & no one is talking about kmatt - which I had hoped. I think you and i are the only ones that responded to his updated reads. | ||
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On January 28 2018 13:35 Holyflare wrote: I prefer to keep this as weak.I don't think Damerion responds to a partner like this with more evidence to clarify a read to justify his damdred wagon. It seems as though he is doing what he can to convince mderg in this situation. It's weak but its something to me. A - whether mderg = town/scum; it presents an opportunity for Damerion to step on the soap box and promote the Damdred wagon B - its normal play (in my mind) for scum to pick weak arguments in a partners case to: - allow them to correct it before others notice; or, - strengthen the argument etc I think the more interesting point here is that Damerion changes his language (in my mind) as a means of persuading mderg. I think this speaks more highly of a scum/town interaction then the event itself. | ||
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On January 29 2018 07:12 mderg wrote: Hi mderg[Mocsta =>Removed dead people from list] [b]Day1 Twat/jat: looked very investigative and open with his reasoning Mocsta: Not quite sure why I felt that way kmatt: no content btdt: didn't see anything of note Hf: looked uninvested, didn't like the push on damdred Rels: jumped on the damdred wagon and fucked off _______________________________________________________________________________________________ [b]Day2 Mocsta: Couldn't really see him and df together based on their interactions btdt: df's vote would have been pretty risky kmatt: no content Twat/jat: Looked townie at first, then disappeared after some townreads on him Rels: looked more invested after day1 Hf: Like before but with Kelsier nk wifom ________________________________________________________________________________________________ [b]Before cop claim btdt: same as before Mocsta: same as before Rels: looked more and more invested, also voted damerion jat: did not read any of his posts before the cop claim kmatt: almost no content Hf: not changed much, softing blue read and I absolutely hate this, "I'm confirmed town for whatever shitty wifom reason" ________________________________________________________________________________________________ [b]After cop claim btdt: almost confirmed town because of rb claims Mocsta: same as before Rels: same as before jat: made sure that Damerion gets lynched despite no counterclaim being made kmatt: lack of content, reads look a bit inconsistent Hf: pushing mafia agenda all game and all that shit I'm not that townie on Mocsta anymore, looked like he jumped on any case that was presented to himand I don't remember him presenting any strong reads of his own. - Does your kmatt read take into account the HF case on p77? - Im not sure of your point in bold. Firstly, I dont agree with not presenting reads. If its not clear, this cycle my choice of lynch was and is kmatt. I merely have recognised that people need closure on HF to move forward. Silly if you ask me. Secondly, HF is espousing that I joined wagons for my own "hipster" reasons; and you are saying I am jumping on -> implying a "+1". Perhaps relevant, perhaps not: however I can say with all certainty that I have struggled to understand the condensation of thought many players have expressed this game. The best example is HF, where I have fleshed out multiple posts in more specificity -> thinking this has resulted in a different (and more logical) outcome; with HF response being "thats what I said". Lastly, what is a strong read. You yourself do not define any scum reads for the first 3 days? - Lastly, again with the bold. Rels should be just as culpable for jumping onto cases (by sheeping RSoultin with blatant +1) IIRC this is why he jumped off Damdred wagon. This is why he voted Damerion. Further, the more and more invested is simply a yelling match to HF. Im not sure why he and I are treated differently, yet, kmatt who is "lack of content' gets a free pass. | ||
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Remember, HF posts were written rationally and mostly without emotion (bar Rels discussion). Lots of information to glean over. | ||
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On January 29 2018 09:39 mderg wrote: That is incorrect and also an unfair representation of this game. Being good town is about recognising a good case - whether generated by yourself or others. I did not say you weren't presenting any reads. I do not remember you having a scumread on anyone who didn't have a case on him already. If that's wrong, it's because I was too lazy to check your whole filter today when hf was always gonna be lynched. I'm also pretty sure I did present scumreads for the first 3 days. Lastly, it was your condensed list of reads in the original post that declared no scum reads throughout all day cycles. The impression I've got from Rels is different than the one from you. Partly because I'm biased as he had similar reads to me over the course of the game. Funnily enough I had Rels as scummy at the start of the game for similar reasons to you. Argument was not the intent. That was raised to extract further information.Also "but he did the same" is not always the most convinving argument. And where does kmatt get a free pass? He has a decent chance of flipping scum based purely on poe. [b]Can I say anything about his play besides providing very little information and reasoning of his reads? No. Part in bold is congruent with list post. Part in red was not - at least to me. | ||
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I struggle to consider a world where JAT, Rels, mderg are not town. That leaves Kmatt & BTDT as the last two. I am certain that a Kmatt lynch will close this game out. Theres nothing more to add here, since Kmatt has done nothing more since. The dark-horse if LYLO did arise is BTDT.
However, I refer to dark-horse as my world above is too strong; and without the RB, no one would think BTDT play is indicative of weak-town, let alone confirmed.
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Original (with flips) + Show Spoiler + On January 20 2018 06:56 darthfoley wrote: I'll be heading out on the road soon so I will only be phone posting from here until deadline. Idk if i'll be able to respond or keep up much i'm going to be but my reads are something like this Town Twat Kmatt HF Rels Mderg rsoultin prphlz Damerion Damdred Kelscier Mocsta BTDT Mafia With my world On January 20 2018 06:56 darthfoley wrote: P.S. DF had no idea he was getting shot night1 when this was released.Town Twat (JAT) Kmatt HF Rels Mderg rsoultin prphlz Damerion Damdred Kelscier Mocsta BTDT Mafia | ||
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On January 29 2018 17:32 justanothertownie wrote: Unfortunately, i dont have any time tonight to go into further detail.I would really love to hear those reasons to townread mderg and Rels that are stronger than the rb thing. TLDR is that I went back to Day1 as this was the most natural day. All the other ones had events that are difficult to discern motive: e.g. prplhz lynch; cop-claim; predetermined lynch. Day1 has some really quirky/interesting interactions between DF/Damerion and remaining player group. mderg has been lone wolf all game; and I dont see how this play carries a team to victory. it relies on lots of luck. I stand by hipster townie. Rels I will try to flesh out more in the morning if i get time. One caveat is that I have yet to read former games whether either player has been mafia. mderg did say he can be top-tier scum so i am curious if knowledge of townies changes his playstyle dramatically instead of being a "wanderer" in this game. I agree BTDT is a non-issue unless LYLO presents; and I dont think its of benefit to discuss him further. I more raised that as item of note if it gets that far. | ||
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On January 30 2018 04:28 justanothertownie wrote: Truest statement of the game.This really late replacement in general is really screwing over someones game. Either the mafia game of some poor fella just got a lot harder or a secure mafia loss was just stopped by host intervention if it is your slot. | ||
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hes my top read, he has to try and shit on me no matter whether town or scum. hes calling me scum... and for what. because holyflare mentioned me.. does he forget about damdred and prplhz? this is just stupid | ||
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On January 30 2018 05:24 justanothertownie wrote: Adorable Yes confirmed town indeed it is | ||
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wheres the vote follow-through. dont lie to yourself and say.. hey i caught mafia with my finger of suspicion.. when you voted townies. | ||
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be back after night post. | ||
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he replaced in.. what.. a couple hours before the game started? he doesnt have time to critically read 80 pages.. but does have time for the qt. its obvious now, scum thought BTDT was medic... I've even put JAT being blue and he still went with the QT dump ##Vote: Koshi | ||
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Look specifically at Day2 where Kmatt was in the driving seat to lynch Damerion or Prplhz. VCA + Show Spoiler + 50%oD1 On January 20 2018 04:58 Conversion wrote: With all town wagons; mafia could be anywhere.Day One Vote Count Damdred (4): Damerion, Holyflare, TheTwatyEvildoer, beentheredonethat (5): rsoultin, KelsierSC, mderg, Rels, darthfoley Holyflare (0): prplhz (0): Not Voting (4): Kmatt, beentheredonethat, damdred, prplhz EoD1 On January 20 2018 09:00 kitaman27 wrote: DF is never truly under pressure.Day One Final Vote Count Damdred (4): Damerion, Holyflare, TheTwatyEvildoer, beentheredonethat (4): darthfoley (3): Damdred, KelsierSC, rsoultin Holyflare (0): prplhz (0): Not Voting (2): Kmatt, beentheredonethat
Again, DF (and scum team) is under no legitimate pressure. 50%oD2 On January 22 2018 23:25 + 20minutes Conversion wrote: Day Two Vote Count prplhz(4): rsoultin, Mocsta, beentheredonethat, Kmatt Damerion(1): Rels Not Voting (6): TheTwatyEvildoer, Damerion, prplhz, Holyflare, mderg EoD2 On January 23 2018 08:50 kitaman27 wrote: Day Two Vote Count prplhz (4): Damerion (3): Rels, rsoultin, mderg Not Voting (3): TheTwatyEvildoer, Damerion, prplhz
On January 22 2018 21:53 Rels wrote: well Damerion / prp are probably both scum On January 22 2018 23:42 Kmatt wrote: Specifically, he appears to agree both damerion and prplhz are scum; yet votes prplhz instead of Damerion. I can get behind that. Making sure to vote nice and early today. #vote prplhz Please also bear in mind that Damerion is not mentioned by Kmatt until the cop claim. Please also bear in mind that Kmatt is against the Damdred push; but never states an opinion on the case origins (i.e. Damerion) or those on the train. + Show Spoiler + On January 26 2018 08:54 kitaman27 wrote: Day Three Vote Count Damerion (7): Kmatt (1): Damerion + Show Spoiler + On January 29 2018 07:52 kitaman27 wrote: Day Four Vote Count Holyflare (6) Rels, justanothertownie, Kmatt (1): justanothertownie (0): | ||
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Going through best host game: mderg is overly apologetic (not in this game) & i didnt read PYP as the game mechanics are so different - however, there is a focus from him only on mechanics and not finding scum. i.e. even from a meta dump, I find him being scum unlikely. Further, I think his interactions with Damerion are extremely town v. scum. Further, i think his interactions with DF trying to convince mderg that mocsta is scum is also town v. scum. as far as Im concerned: mderg + jat = confirmed town. This leaves Rels as a dark-horse option. I will start looking into his scum games. | ||
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hmmmm im picking up a vibe from his scum games including the newbies that hes quite aggressive in a brute force type of way. dare I say - almost a ?bully? I need to compare to a town game where is tunneled - to compare to how he went about HF this game. | ||
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On January 30 2018 19:18 Koshi wrote: Referring to, and whom?Pleading to town is also mafia. Which he did. | ||
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On January 30 2018 19:35 Koshi wrote: LOL, keep goingYou. But I am considering Rels is mafia and HF was standard horrible. Im enjoying the comedy show. | ||
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On January 30 2018 19:40 Koshi wrote: Whats the point of this post.People should stop thinking hf is good as town. Been saying this for so long. No need to shit on people that are dead. So are you being a tool for the sake of it, or relating this to Rels? | ||
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On January 30 2018 19:52 Koshi wrote: Im not understanding this, whatsoever.##unvote Mocsta ##Vote Rels Happy to listen. though. | ||
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On January 30 2018 05:38 Rels wrote: @Rels.. I dont understand where you are going with this.lol. If Koshi is town that game just got a whole lot easier Note: On January 27 2018 09:30 beentheredonethat wrote: Rels, in a world where Holyflare is town, who ya gonna call? On January 27 2018 09:31 Rels wrote:Kmatt. | ||
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On January 30 2018 21:41 justanothertownie wrote: I can accept that... (for now).. its hard. most of the activity happens when Im asleep. I DO NOT want this forgotten 12hrs out from deadline.I'd much rather see what Koshi is doing today. Wasn't convinced Kmatt is mafia earlier and now that we have an active replacement I will just see how this guy plays. So far my feeling is that Koshi might be on the right path going after Rels. I am happy to watch them battle for a while. | ||
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On January 30 2018 21:43 justanothertownie wrote: I'm not seeing that.There is an IF in that sentence for a reason I guess. And he is right. If Koshi is town it may prevent a surefire mislynch. Rather, he has indicated that top scum after HF. How does Koshi entering change that read? From when Rels posted that, I do not pick up alternate scum reads to Kmatt/Koshi... hence, how does the game get easier? he should be at a dead end..... | ||
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On January 30 2018 23:09 justanothertownie wrote: replace late sucksI thought about that too. One of the reasons why you should not replace this late. But i wouldnt draw haste conclusions kmatr is a newbie and kita probably feels internally pressures for this to reach a natural ending through votes with either allignment. We have invested 2 weeks of our lives and losing a town now would put game in lylo i think and losing scum is default win. Nothing more to read of this.. also bear in mind twat didnt post dor like 72 hrs before being replaced. Who knows when kmatt sent ina request..... | ||
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On January 30 2018 23:11 justanothertownie wrote: I don't agree. The thing about Mocsta was that he seemed almost furious how btdt got cleared by this. There is no reason to be angry as town in that situation. Still dislike this but I have trouble reading much into it knowing that mocsta was probably pretty wasted at that point in time. it was a good day for surePale ale / snacks / pool and so much sun Whoops.. forgot its still snow season in the northern hemisphere Btw. I already mentionsd that the next day thought about it more and rwalised about the rb interaction with kelsier vig shot. So misinformedly spoke | ||
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On January 30 2018 22:32 Rels wrote: its not a cherry pickwell, yeah. I was convinced HF was scum. You and Mocsta are cherry-picking this quote that Kmatt would be my second scum, but I also said that if that was not HF, I would not be super convinced on anyone. Everything else after tjat quote is related to hf being scum Please review my kmatt/koshi points at start of day when you return | ||
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On January 31 2018 07:10 Rels wrote: Koshi replaced in, what, a couple hours before deadline?can you explain what you were trying to achieve ? There is no way any replacement could meaningfully read the thread and draw conclusions. The QT should be much more manageable. So, when I woke up to see a replacement that is insta-calling me scum, and not in an OMGUS-way: My scum read on Kmatt/Koshi was amplified further. In my mind I was testing whether Koshi was making kill selection on thread or QT strategy. If BTDT was legitimately RB (which clearly now is the case) for being perceived as medic; I see him as a real threat to scum as another delay to LYLO should be default town win. If BTDT was faking the RB, I would expect scum (inc. Koshi) to clasp onto the JAT notice and shoot him. I mean, JAT being blue was so obvious from how he destroyed Damerion *AND* refused to discuss claims with BTDT. I didnt see it as a risk to output this as a competent scum would be shooting him anyways. =========== I have thought about it more and not sure its as telling as I had hoped. BTDT could have been shot purely for being "confirmed town" and/or unpredictable. BTDT could have been shot to focus on this type of discussion. Right now, I need to evaluate what Koshi has contributed this cycle - vs. the kill selection. | ||
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On January 31 2018 08:04 Koshi wrote: You make a fair point.[....] Mocsta will most likely vote me. He convinced himself over the course of the game and needs to see my flip. [...] ##Unvote I need to take a step back and its starts with the action above. | ||
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On January 31 2018 07:53 Koshi wrote: well one of the issues I had with that post you are referring to is the insertion of "5d chessboard"imo that is a pretty good post by Kmatt. But then again. I know he was being honest. mderg/Mocsta/JAT can be the judges. To me, thats a very forced joke, as a continuation of "4d chessboard" from very early Day1 - that people found humerous. To me it demonstrated a mindset that was trying to make that point more convincing by associating it with a past memory (in kmatt favour). Thats a weak scum tell to me. ======= This is the challenge for me this cycle: I have issues with Kmatt play - that Koshi simply cannot address. Even if scum, and with QT knowledge; it doesnt explain every action Kmatt took - as people have different styles etc. So i have to evaluate Koshi on how he is reading Rels/mderg/mocsta; and Rels on the whole game. Its really hard for me not to be biased against Koshi, simply because I have unanswered questions about Kmatt. The other problem I have with Koshi is that, whilst I appreciate he appears to have speed-read the game. His analysis is extremely superficial as its a stream of consciousness approach, with a one-line summary for analytical conclusion. I also agree that Koshi is being double-standard by accusing Rels of pocketing mderg; and arguably, is doing the same thing with me and others. Clearly at least one is town, so its really a non-alignment indicative tell.... I also really dont know how to get meaningful questions from Koshi, as a lot of the late-game stuff to me is ... ?useless?.. i.e. predetermined lynches and even RSoultin said prplhz was legitimate for town and scum. I keep thinking this game comes back to interactions with DF and Damerion - Im going to have a focused peruse for Rels at this stage. Actually, Koshi, I would like your thoughts on a dedicated dive into DF and Damerion please - with emphasis on Rels and mderg (and sure, myself) | ||
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On January 31 2018 09:07 Koshi wrote: This is quite an interesting observation - I like it a lot actually.Ovwrall I would be suprised if both df and damerion talked so much about their teammate Mocsta. Mderg has a low filter and it makes sense mafia doesnt talk about him if he is town. Just keep him alive and dont townclear him to the thread. Mderg on the other hand talked about them. So I think it is more likely mafia ignored and didnt talk to town!mderg to draw less attention to them. And mderg probably didnt have enough weight in the thread to ve listened to by the vets. Rels looks the worst because both the mafia didnt talk about him. And like I said before, Rels didnt prodded them enough. Rels even +1ed a good post against damerion early vut didnt take that into consideration later. Conclusion is same as before. Rels is mafia. If I go back to my VCA assessment, where DF was never actually under pressure to be lynched; well, scum!Rels can freely sheep RSoultin as he wishes. | ||
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flicking through DF/Damerion was meh DF is calling anyone that agrees with his read, or calls him town: town. So that includes Kmatt and Rels. Damerion only talks to people against the Damdred case. I was hoping that would be more illuminating. | ||
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On January 20 2018 05:26 Damerion wrote: Just got off shift, apologies. Listen to me, yes it is possible I am tunneled upon my friend Damdred. However look at his actions around this lynch. He has no interactions with BTDT, no interactions with Mocsta, No real interactions with DarthFoley. And yet someone who thrives on interactions and town hunting has no dynamic shifts in his reads. And yet has come up with these reads that do not change and he pushes withbsupreme confidence. This is not the day one Damdred who flip flops and changes with the wind. Also look at how he is handling the lynch, he just wants to get the vote knto Darthfoley and secure it away from himself without encouraging discussion. I understand I am hyper focused but if you look at my past games I am generally right. So please follow me. On January 21 2018 22:37 Mocsta wrote: in hindsight .. i dont like this post Note the capital No mid sentence.. reflects to me an importance om darthfoley Want to hear more from this guy. Tell me about mderg pls On January 22 2018 21:47 Rels wrote: was it Rels...?lol it's so far fetched | ||
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On January 30 2018 20:11 Koshi wrote: I have ctrl+f "mderg" in Rels filter, and he only starts dishing him praise during the HF lynch - when asked to give reads on players by JAT.Rels you pocketed mderg really well. That is a job insanely nicely done. Never attacked him, and step by step gained his trust. 😄 Why does not attacking someone equate to pocketing? | ||
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Rels does not agree that DF BTDT read is for valid reasons. He has already switched from Damdred to BTDT. So Damdred request to vote DF, should trigger an investigatory mindset with Rels. - Instead, this is brushed off, with "we have a few hours" and never revisited. Rels agrees with RSoultin that Damdred is not a good lynch option. DF requests info from Rels. And this comes across as if he is correcting DF, rather than discering why the logic is wrong. Again, an investigatory mindset should be triggered.. in particular because of the Damdred comment prior. Some back/forth with HF, causes Rels to swap votes back to Damdred. The anotehr last minute swap. ----------------- On January 20 2018 04:43 darthfoley wrote: The fact that like 4 people are agreeing with my scum read on BTDT while also pushing me is scummy as fuck. On January 20 2018 04:55 Rels wrote: Your BTDT read is not very good TBH. We both didn't like the same post but I don't think your reasons to scumread BTDT are very good. On January 20 2018 04:58 Conversion wrote: Day One Vote Count Damdred (4): Damerion, Holyflare, TheTwatyEvildoer, beentheredonethat (5): rsoultin, KelsierSC, mderg, Rels, darthfoley Not Voting (4): Kmatt, beentheredonethat, damdred, prplhz On January 20 2018 05:17 Damdred wrote: need two more votes on df fast, or he will save himself and im lynched. On January 20 2018 05:46 Rels wrote: we still have a few hours On January 20 2018 06:15 darthfoley wrote: Also @rels can you expand on why my read on BTDT is correct but the reasons are wrong? Specifically please. On January 20 2018 06:56 Rels wrote: Sure. You attacked him for 2 things: his HF read progression and because he said something like "let's lynch some AFK". + Show Spoiler + On January 19 2018 05:02 darthfoley wrote: BTDT strikes me as someone who's sort of just drifted through the game so far. Granted his filter is only a few posts, but the posts themselves seem careful not to step on any toes. The progression in this post is scummy to me 1. It's a normal start for HF, you're giving him too much credit. 2. HF's cream joke "feels genuine" (implied town read) 3. But it's NAI (so why imply a town read 3 words beforehand?) It just feels like a whole lot of hedging on HF. This is basically the safest thing mafia can do ever lol. It doesn't ruffle any feathers. Have pressuring AFK people ever actually worked? They're AFK because... they aren't following the game. He also then ignores his own advice and throws a scum read on Mocsta. I'm not understanding his thought progression at all - it's not his HF read "progression" that is a problem. There is no problem saying he feels a joke is kinda genuine, but being unsure about it. It was very early in the game. - two things on the second part. First, everybody knows being like "let's lynch an AFK" and being passive is scummy. Saying it doesn't make anyone scum. Second, you then undermine your own point, since you say he acts differently that he said; so he should be townie in your POV ? On January 20 2018 08:01 Holyflare wrote: And it's ridiculous that you say that because you're simultaneously accusing me of deflecting off df while saying I'm not actually pushing anything. So which is it? In fact that's such a bull shit accusation I'm removing you from the top of the list and moving you down to where df used to be. On January 20 2018 08:04 Rels wrote: that makes no sense so whatever. You're still rambling pointlessly. Explain to me why Damdred is scum because I don't see it. "Damdred's reaction" is not helpful. I don't see the "panic" you described yesterday in his reaction leading to eventually: On January 20 2018 08:41 Rels wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote Damdred & On January 20 2018 08:58 Rels wrote: meh Damdred as scum would be claiming let's lynch BTDT | ||
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On January 31 2018 16:17 justanothertownie wrote: fair points.Weird train of thought. Not really in a scummy way but how was Koshi supposed to be mafia if btdt fakeclaimed rb? Also I do not really follow entirely. Why did you post I was blue again? Did you actually think a mafia who reads the thread would be influenced by that? The only reason btdt is a somewhat valid nightkill is because he was almost unlynchable due to the rb. Otherwise it was an utterly terrible kill. In my mind the only thing that speaks for an uninformed mafia (e. g. Koshi) is that I have trouble seeing aplayer who knows what's up thinking that btdt saved me considering how we clashed this game. not the smartest idea in hindsight! | ||
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why would scum!rels argue with HFrelentlessly? I dont see the purpose? wasnt it enough that he had majority vote? | ||
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Instead of addressing my day1 query. starts to call koshi town and mderg scum... nice try | ||
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On January 31 2018 07:30 Rels wrote: ##Vote Koshi How do you go from this to koshi =town in one sleep And My day1 query. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=26901815 | ||
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On January 31 2018 19:31 Rels wrote: ok, query was wrong word.thinking about it. What's the query in that post ? moreso, I thought this series of observations would have at least raised a reply of some form. re: koshi.. i get the narrative that mderg is raised to #1 Rels suspect; which lowers koshi suspcion levels but... i dont get any understanding of why suddenly that defaults to him being town.. especialy when mderg is not hard scum in your eyes. he has effort but its how he is doing it, means nothign to me... especially since i agreed with your statement that much of it is easy to fake/superficial. i dont see how in 11hrs you go about face... pocketing, no? | ||
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My focus is not on why you swapped wagons; rather, the interaction with Damdred in respect to DarthFoley. Re: prplhz i.e. On January 20 2018 08:10 prplhz wrote: I will vote beentheredonethat. He's a veteran but I haven't played with him and he's got some votes. Would vote with rsoultin but she's voting darthfoley and I'm not lynching him D1 before reading the thread. I'll be more active, promise. Also Mocsta is scum for voting me. ##Vote beentheredonethat I dont get the point of the post 11 days later re trying to save Damdred.Like, did you think Damdred/BTDT/DF were all town, of which BTDT was more expendible? Again, my whole observation is that your read on DF is 'murky' to be polite during this passage of play - arguably very critical for scum. In particular when combined with: On January 20 2018 08:49 Rels wrote: Damdred / prp / DF would explain prp's vote. | ||
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On January 31 2018 20:10 Rels wrote: the scum read on DF is new to me.Why don't you understand ? I initially had scumreads both BTDT and DF, more so on BTDT than on DF. Then I reread Damdred's explanation and I find it very unlikely + prp votes BTDT. So in that context, Damdred / prp / DF makes sense as a team, with prp voting with neither of his partners. That aside, this is making my head hurt. So that timestamp for damd/prp/df team lines up with when you REVOTED damdred So if you are floating between damdred/prp as lynches.. why not stay fixed on DF who was in your scum team regardless? im not following. especially cos "damdred doesnt claim" suddenly then, calls for everyone to jump off. | ||
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its not actually a complement in the grand scheme of thigns where doth scum lay? | ||
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On January 31 2018 20:29 justanothertownie wrote: Koshi.. I think you need to vote JAT as per your math rulesMaybe it isn't town Koshi after all :/ :/ im stuck, tired, and kid is having trouble sleeping. going to unvote i will be back at least 1hr before deadline my gut is still saying koshi is the right lynch my head is saying.. rels and mderg only started looking into eachotehr once koshi mentioned pocketing... but i still find rels day1 DF interactions very peculiar. i have to sleep on this. ##Unvote | ||
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On February 01 2018 07:44 Rels wrote: im backOh no mocsta didn't miss a vote either. i have 10minutes now to catch up, clear thoughts. then a meeting. and back 10minutes before deadline. i plan to vote before the meeting. also, i saw ya comment on replacement WIFOM about Koshi. If town, this is a terrible reason to read someone The rules are pretty unbiased, and do not apply to specific phase intervals. "Replacements: This game uses replacements. Players who are inactive may be replaced by other players. If you are unable to continue playing for a legitimate reason and require a replacement, inform the host(s) via PM. Do not post about it in the thread and do not contact the standby players on your own accord." | ||
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On February 01 2018 03:27 Koshi wrote: ffs..this reinforces what i was commenting with Rels on Day1.I don't like this. 3rd post you make in this game and you are not looking at the game critically searching for mafia. You just bold an unimportant thing and +1 that. I don't know if that rsoultin post is townie. Looks like gibberish. So I don't like you don't pressure rsoultin here. I saw somebody call you out on this read and you explain it. But the lack of pressuring people is bad. meh. I have no clue why. Which I should have reading his filter. Rels looks really bad in this conversation with HF. Town vs Mafia bad. It was a nice deflection of the initial point HF raised though. Never answered. haha. Man... In your filter you should have always followed rsoultin and vote darthfoley. dafuq. You scumread hf, townread rsoultin. You never scumread Damdred, and you had problems with darthfoley. And you end up on Damdred with HF due to 1 miracle post and you "filterdiving" and finding 2 Damdred quotes. And then you even end up on btdt while df was just sitting there begging to be voted. Nha. Rels is mafia. Or at least deserves my vote today. its ffs, cos i still want to vote you, but now i cant. evidence of DF-partnering, overwhelming! ##Vote: Rels - the interplay with DF doesnt make sense to me at all. You say DF was a scum read, but your actions indicate DF was a town read. DF was scum. | ||
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On February 01 2018 04:23 Rels wrote: Yeah I get that, thats all normal.lol. I always have a awful D1 as town, I don't know what to do. And I never state or change my reads without explanation as scum. So everything you quoted makes me town. The problem being your actions treat DF as town. - In particular regarding to actions taken during vote time. The only town explanation I can think of is that you did think DF was (weak) town, but you refuse to say that. In fact this cycle you have commented you found DF scummy. As an aggressive player, I would expect you to be able to own up to this. Hence my vote. | ||
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What I dont get is why mderg hasnt voted, or indicated preference. I dont find valid what Rels projected on mderg. I can see mderg world, where, if town, and you have XYZ as reads; and the proactive influencers have XYZ as reads. Why do you need to promote a wagon - its already happening. /gotta go | ||
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On February 01 2018 08:51 justanothertownie wrote: Hmmm... seems like my vote doesn't really matter right now. well i would prefer if you werent modkilled. taht would end the game too. | ||
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i make it interesting for you ##Unvote ##Vote: mderg | ||
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On February 01 2018 08:57 Rels wrote: To Koshi right ? But you just switched to mderg ? That makes no sense mderg not gonna be lynched. cos Rels got to 2 first. JAT has indicated Rels all game; 0 risk. but, he did say drunk, so i will place vote back. | ||
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##Vote: Rels | ||
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On February 01 2018 08:58 Rels wrote: I hope you realise how stupid this is, and reminds me of your Day1 attempt to swap votes.Switching to mocsta. He just slipped. Kill him tomorrow If I was scum, and a JAT modkills wins and town lynch wins the game... wouldnt i be salivating for it. tsk tsk Rels. | ||
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LYLO over a weekend is crap too. what can ya do. thsi is that moment where i want to have a smoke, but dont want to pay $30 to buy a pack for just 1 !!!! | ||
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On February 01 2018 16:34 Koshi wrote: lolI woke up knowing it is mocsta. Him lynching outside his 60/40 is indeed super bad. | ||
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Shenanigans could occur Mserg was safe play Stop being dumb dumb | ||
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Great eureka moment koshi.... | ||
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The mderg vote was a joke with JAT Hence no shenanigans. Get over it And why should i view you as 100% mafia? | ||
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On February 02 2018 02:55 Koshi wrote: In general, yes you are.Unless I am super wrong. he had me/rels 60/40 and voted mderg to give you a chance to be deciding vote. am I wrong? | ||
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On February 02 2018 08:01 mderg wrote: I don't think you are.I'm kind of curious why I'm apparently the one deciding the lynch now Koshi is trying to blackmail you - to be frank. There literally are no other words to describe the course of actions he is stating will occur. | ||
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My joke vote play was stupid yesterday and I can go into more detail if its actually necessarily. But seriously... what is the scum motivation to do that? You may ask what is the town motivation, and its simple: frustration and patience - we all release differently. | ||
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On February 02 2018 08:37 justanothertownie wrote: ok i will pay that as a plausible consideration for mderg.Well, it is what solo mafia is often doing. The only goal is to survive while a townie should be actively looking for scum and therefore be invested in who gets lynched. Off the top of my head I stil think its unlikely, because of the interactions with Damerion. Not saying I dont like meta; but rather, Damerion trying to actively persuade mderg.. Thats a super strong town correlation. | ||
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On February 02 2018 08:47 Koshi wrote: I respect you as a human being JAT. BUT YOU HAVE TO DIE!!! ![[image loading]](http://asset-9.soupcdn.com/asset/2546/5563_9b23_500.png) | ||
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at least game is easy street ##Vote: Koshi | ||
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On February 02 2018 09:08 Koshi wrote: No chance to be mafia.1 question to you Mocsta. Is it at all possible JAT is mafia? The no kill 100% clears him right? from the front page "Q: What happens if mafia does not submit a shot? A: It would be randomly chosen among the remaining non-mafia players." A kill was blocked. | ||
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On February 02 2018 09:09 Koshi wrote: Hi Koshianyway. This is so beautiful. JAT with deciding vote. hahahahaha If I was mafia I would actually do this. Just to make JAT vote Mocsta over me. Imagine that. tbh. This is brilliant. imagine if I am mafia and JAT doesn''t vote me after I leave him alive. Would haunt him forever. anyway. Question remains. We are 100% certain JAT is town right? I respect you as a person | ||
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actually i predict things will go differently JAT probably thinks he is dead, so will check if AFTER the day cycle will be modkilled by default, then you shoot me and game over lol | ||
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On February 02 2018 09:37 Koshi wrote: I never thought about roleblocking KP.The only thing I dont want to lose to is mafia veteran JAT shooting himself. If that is the case I called it but I would be pretty pissed. Tell me more..... | ||
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This is illuminating.... http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/444875-6k-post-tl-mafia On March 01 2014 09:34 kitaman27 wrote: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n99/chuiu/TLmafia_new.png) I've finally hit 6k so I'm back with my mafia blog summarizing the games I have played over the last 1000 posts by identifying a thought or lesson that I have come away with. For those who have no idea what I'm talking about, several individuals have put together guides explaining what exactly the game of mafia entails. A General Guide to Mafia is a great resource for starters. We're always looking to bring in new players so be sure to check out the TL mafia forums here or on the sidebar in the other games section . In addition to forum games, we also try to run community events including video mafia, irc mafia, LoL and Dota 2 in-houses, a Hearthstone league, and Brood War games. If you are hesitant to jump right in, we regularly host newbie games where you have the opportunity to play with individuals of similar experience. Blazinghand is hosting the current newbie game and you can sign up to join his game here. Alternatively, you may type /obs in essentially any game thread to receive a quicktopic link to follow along with other observers. Past blogs: 1k Post 2k Post 3k Post 4k Post 5k Post Game: PTP IV - Demon's Run Role: Weeping Angel/Madam Vastra Theme: I manage to lose games in the most gut wrenching of fashions. I'll start off by taking this opportunity to whine. This may not be the most insightful of topics, but you might enjoy my misery. If the goal is to try and bring in new players, this probably isn't the best place to begin, but nevertheless, allow me to introduce you to a brief history of my soul-crushing losses: Exhibit A: Lord of The Rings Mafia (Mafia Roleblocker) In this game, I had to exhaust every trick in the book to even make it to endgame. We had a fake tracker claim on a Serial Killer night shot after taking a complete guess as to his identity: On September 23 2011 22:17 kitaman27 wrote: sup chaoser, I saw you return to your house with blood on your hands. Which kill are you claiming? Sincerely, Your number one stalker. We had a mass mafia bus on our favorite neutral, surviving barlog: + Show Spoiler + On September 21 2011 11:28 iGrok wrote: I've been thinking about this. And I think it is, in fact, time for me to claim. So, as my meta, this is my incredibly huge post. Ok, I've come under a lot of fire lately for lurking. And it's true, I have been. But trying to use meta arguments (other than lack of a monster post, which is never on D1 anyways) on me is stupid - I dare you to find two games in which I've played similar styles as similar roles. And in this game, I'm a role I've never been before. I am the Balrog. I am a Survivor. I have a number of powers, but I'll start with my wincon: I win when any faction wins and Gandalf is dead. So, the second part of my wincon has been conveniently fulfilled. Gandalf probably wasn't supposed to die this early - I've got a few powers that would have aided me in my quest for Gandalf.
But that only helps me kill Gandalf. I still need to survive. Fortunately, I have a passive power:
I'll take a quick breather to let you all think about everything I've just said. When you're ready, scroll down. It's time for my favorite! Setup Analysis time! In a closed setup, its difficult - but as a 3rd party role, and with all the recent flips, I think I can figure a few things out. I'll start with my role, as it is the most complicated. Survivors suck. You have to somehow survive to endgame, against a mafia team who doesn't know not to kill you. So you have to be as non-threatening as possible, while avoiding lynch. This leads you to lurk hardcore. This is no fun. But my role is a little different. I have a goal, and tools at my disposal. And I think I've figured out how Curu intended for Balrog to be played - Investigate people, when you find a Maia, use the thread to figure out what kind. Then get them lynched. Use the oneshot to get the ring once it pops up somewhere, and then go into heavy pro-town action to win the game. With the death of Gandalf though, I can change things up a bit. After all, it's in my best interest to survive. And for me, the choice seems clear: Get the ring. With this in mind, I have a proposal for the town. 2 Maia have died (Gandalf and Sauron). One, maybe two are left. Saruman definitely, lets be honest he's going to be in here. He's kind of a big deal in LotR. Radagast on the other hand...+ Show Spoiler + If he's in the game, he's probably a miller or traitor with some sort of bonus power. He was a good guy who aided Saruman in Lotr lore. He's pretty obscure though, so idk if he's in the game. Anyways, my proposal - give me the ring, and I'll trade you an unblockable KP, Saruman checks, and I'll actually contribute useful analysis. Who decides on the KP? Well, if you're a DT I'll give it to you - when you check me you'll get my role PM, If you want to use my power, post the first word in the name of my Checking ability in one of your posts. I'll use it on the next name that appears in your post. Also, I'll check whoever got the second-most votes each night to see if they are Saruman or Radagast. Why should you trust me? Because this forces me to act pro-town. I'm basically saying, I'm 3rd party but with your help I can be a Bullet-proof Vigilante. Think about that. If I get the ring, I can still be lynched - so if I don't hold up my end, you can lynch me. So thats the deal. I want to win. Give me the ring, and I hunt the other White Wizard, while scumhunting the best I can. As a sign of good faith, I'll include an analysis later on, and I'll tell you that Radfield is neither Saruman nor Radagast (I thought he might be Gandalf). On to the rest of the analysis, what little I can do. Take it or leave it, but I've been known to perfectly guess setups before. I won't attempt to do so, but lets see... First, look at Gandalf's Powers. He's called a Jack of all Trades, but he's not actually that strong. He has 4 powers, but he can't even combine them. Gandalf is supposed to be the strongest damn being in the lotr universe. But he's a purely information role. In contrast, Sauron's Role: He, too, has investigative powers. He also has an unblockable kill, AND is godfather. Sauron just seems like a more powerful role than Gandalf. But what can we take from this? Mafia seem to be pretty heavily loaded. Supporting this are the existence of a Jailkeeper and Messenger - Messengers are awesome for confirming players, and Jailkeepers are excellent on offense or defense against mafia. So, with heavily loaded mafia AND at least one 3rd party, Town has to have some serious firepower and/or protection. I expect Aragorn to have KP (Curu if you make him and Legolas Trackers I will not forgive you - and if GIMLI doesn't have kp... They're the fucking heroes!) I don't forsee there being more than two medics (Eowyn and Galadriel are my guesses), but combined with a Jailkeeper and a vet or two we're starting to talk about some high-power games. My final note about setup: Pippin (Peregrin Took). The existence of pm-oriented roles is cool, and I highly doubt there's just one. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if Merry was a clone of Pippin's role. So now its time for some sample analysis. And my focus today is Palmar. This was his first post. Nothing scummy here, but it sets the mood for everything else he posts. Now, here's a list of his opinions since then. Radfield, WBG, Errandor prplhz DrH Radfield, himself, Sandroba, Pyo Pause. Next post. Here, minimal interaction with DrH is played off as enough to auto-confirm him. This post sets off alarm bells in my head. Palmar contributed 4 posts before DrH died, 2 of which were "Herp I'm not reading the thread" (He was obviously reading the thread). Its his fourth post that interests me: "DrH is giving me really bad vibes." At the time, it looked like just another throwaway post. But post DrH's death, this post looks more like DrH new he was going to be modkilled and Palmar jumped out early to get a townie point. For the rest of the game, two things are going on. He puts faith in Radfield, and he continues to stress Sandroba town. (yes theres other shit but those're the important parts) Palmar already feels scummy. So lets continue on that assumption, and introduce possibilities. 1)Radfield and Sandroba are both town. If this is true, then Palmar is trying to gain town cred when they flip. With sandroba acting scummy and a possible lynch, and Radfield a good mafia target, thats two points for him. Fits with calling DrH scum. 2)Radfield is town, Sandroba is scum. This is using Radfield's town cred to make Sandroba look better. Even those who don't trust Palmar will subliminally put them on closer levels. If sandroba didn't look so damn scummy, it might work. 3)Radfield is scum, Sandroba is town. I just... don't see this as possible. 4)Both are scum. I don't know what this would mean actually Alright guys, well you've heard me out. Give me the ring, and I'll start working a hell of a lot harder this game, hunt down Saruman, and give a DT an unblockable shot. Otherwise, I'll basically keep doing what I've done so far. Your move. We had a set of fake mason logs with my mafia scumbuddy, where I purposely withheld the time stamps, hoping that someone would ask for them so that I'd be able to post them instantly: + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2011 07:36 kitaman27 wrote: Ok so here is the deal. EVERYONE READ THIS POST Radfield masoned me on night one. Nobody can counter claim this. I didn't claim it earlier because I wanted to trap mafia. Obviously, they would have known that I was in contact with him so they would be weary of going after me knowing that I had the claim in my back pocket. Tonight, we lynch the serial killer choaser. Tomorrow, we clean up based on today's mess. Here are my logs. Radfied played it very carefully. He gave me hardly any reads and mainly bussed his own teammates. Its possible I may have missed something however. Everyone should be switching over to chaoser now. And I was able to follow through... + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2011 07:54 kitaman27 wrote: We had a last minute shenanigans mislynch, where 75% of the votes moved from myself to a town player at the end of the cycle. And we had a game winning plan that involved the mafia bomberman. For those who are unfamiliar with how a bomber man works, at night you may target a player with an obscure trigger phrase and if they happen to say the phrase in the thread, they explode instanstly. On the final day, there were five players remaining and both myself and GGQ were exposed as mafia. Four votes were immediately cast on myself so we were in a really tough spot. The plan was to put the bomb on myself, state the trigger seconds before the lynch to explode myself, and then have GGQ cast a single vote on another player, resulting in a mafia victory. Well, things didn't exactly go as planned...GGQ never showed up: On October 07 2011 07:59 kitaman27 wrote: Hopefully I'll be joined by somebody else rather shortly. Also, SUPERCALIFRAGILISTICEXPLODEALIDOCIOUS On October 07 2011 08:03 Curu wrote: kitaman27 as The Witch-King, Lord of the Nazgul, Mafia Roleblocker blew up! Hello and welcome to Middle-Earth! You are The Witch-King, Lord of the Nazgul, Mafia Roleblocker. ![[image loading]](http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070526090959/lotr/images/thumb/c/cd/Witchking.jpg/830px-Witchking.jpg) Active Ability Fear: You are able to instill absolute paralyzing fear on your target. Each night phase, you may choose to roleblock a target. Factional Ability You may carry out kills on behalf of the Mafia. Your personal kill flavor is “devoured by a Fellbeast.” You win when the Mafia outnumbers every other faction in the game. On October 07 2011 08:05 Curu wrote: Night 7 No one was lynched! Sigh..... Bonus: Driving chaoser to pick up a smoking habit + Show Spoiler + On October 07 2011 06:55 kitaman27 wrote: Also, how do you pronounce your name chaoser? On October 07 2011 06:59 chaoser wrote: chow-ser. Like Bowser but with Chao. Cause there's a Gandalf the White in the game already? Why is your name kitaman? On October 07 2011 07:03 chaoser wrote: It's pronounced chowser like bowser. You didn't answer my question about your name. On October 07 2011 07:05 chaoser wrote: you're kidding me.. On October 07 2011 07:41 chaoser wrote: i'm tilting so hard right now... On October 07 2011 07:42 chaoser wrote: I need to go out for a smoke...i don't even smoke...i hate you... Exhibit B: Responsibility Mafia! (Mafia Roleblocker) This game also had a pretty bizarre ending. Going into the night, we have three players remaining: myself, bum and RoL. As everyone was a vigilante this game, I knew that bum was the only player remaining with a gun so I roleblocked him, figuring that if he was going to shoot me, I'd have 48 hours to change his mind and if he shot RoL, then he'd simply lynch him with me the next day. Well, he did shoot RoL, which was roleblocked and the game was extended. However, at the beginning of the cycle, bum decided that I should be lynched, rather than the player he had decided to shoot. Putting in a latch ditch effort, I posted a fake spreadsheet of all my notes from the game: + Show Spoiler + On January 06 2012 15:13 kitaman27 wrote: bum, look at it his way: Mafia has absolutely nothing to gain from not roleblocking you. RoL knows you are the only vig alive. With him being in such a strong position today, it makes little sense that he would risk being shot. Instead, he rb's you and goes for the safer mislynch today. If you did indeed shoot RoL then at least you're willing to listen to a case if I wrote one? There must be a reason you decided to shoot RoL instead of me right? Here are all the notes I have taken this game. It might not change your mind, but I'm desperate to prove that I'm really town. If you're the scum, please just let me know so we can save everyone some time. I'd be willing to hammer myself if that were the case. Otherwise, let me write up my final case tomorrow. [*]Foolishness's filter [*]RebirthOfLeGenD's filter [*]wherebugsgo's filter [*]kitaman27's filter [*]syllogism's filter [*]SamuelLJackson's filter [*]Jackal58's filter [*]Liquid`Sheth's filter [*]GMarshal's filter [*]L's filter [*]Mr. Wiggles's filter [*]Palmar's filter [*]Chezinu's filter [*]chaoser's filter [*]bumatlarge's filter [*]BloodyC0bbler's filter [*]LSB's filter [*]GGQ's filter [*]prplhz' filter [*]VisceraEyes's filter Liars: bum: made up responsibility points chez: "Ver is not one to try and eliminate bad play" LSB: Fake claiming role, as evidenced by GM's counter claim hydra: "At this point I'd rather lynch Chezinu or Foolishness", yet still votes for LSB even after mentioning how LSB's claim makes no sense as scum Sheth: Claims to be on sleeping drugs, yet posting in other thread and streaming. Proof? syllo: "Leaning scum based on my last read, I'll probably have time to reread him later today...never mentions me as scum in an earlier read, setting himself up for mislynch at lylo" Meapak: "Hi all, I just got to the part where chez claimed rb. That was false just for the record. Chez never got RB'd" Foolishness (vig) ### -trolling, lists Ver as giant wall of text, supporting BC -"Ignore Chezinu, silence bugs, kill L" -Soft defends L for his vote on palmar -http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=295384¤tpage=28#541 -Lists four people that will call him out. Traitor attempting to contact scum team? -"Please remember, mafia are given a list of blues AND their role description" scumslip? -Spammy -"I'm fairly confident that if GM lied about who he shot then he breadcrumbed the real victim in his post." -Distractionary tactic, why would GM lie if he posted when mafia couldn't change their actions? -Posts analysis against bugs -Breadcrumbs L shot RoL -Never returns after placeholder on chez, never comments on LSB -Mentions multiple times how GM's missed shot means he is confirmed, attempts to argue that GM's role is different than LSB's -Analysis against BC bugs ### -analysis against LSB, posting confident -talking about SK -Supports LSB lynch even after claim -Soft defends BC -OMGUS on foolishness syllo -soft defends GM -calls bugs case stupid but votes LSB anyways -prpl looks exactly like his town play -non-committal on L lynch, votes him when forced to by rest of town http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=295384¤tpage=52#1035 -"Leaning scum based on my last read, I'll probably have time to reread him later today" sandro/curu ### -random bible quote: Ezekiel 25:17 traitor? -drops case on chez rather quickly, jumps on bug's lsb analysis -hard defends palmar -supports LSB lynch, but not with confidence -Mentions how LSB's claim makes no sense as scum, yet still wants to lynch him *** jackal ### -shoots down chez policy lynch -questions chezinu about possible scum slip -jumps on LSB for "no day 1 vet lynch", doesn't address bugs anaylsis -wants to kill Foolishness. GMarshall GGQ for information -Strongly opposing the GM lynch for LSB instead, even though he calls GM scum Sheth -soft defends hydra/chez -posting in election mafia, but not here -weak vote on LSB at the last minute -mentions that he is sick multiple times and unable to post, yet he is streaming sc2 -Incredibly forced analysis against myself. Brings up several irrelevant points. Only real analysis all game. -After providing analysis against me, votes RoL. Doesn't vote me at all. *** -Last on L lynch GMarshal (Justice vigilante) ### -hydra policy vote -useless setup wall of text -says this game perfectly matches my scum meta and compares it to my town play mini mafia, however in mini mafia he was certain my play was scum as well -supports and defends LSB in the same post "Fuck, my head hurts. This game is making no sense to me right now, and I feel stupid. " -Not pushing his read on my confidently, pleas to have the day off and contribute in the future -Counterclaims LSB, but isn't willing to believe the roles are the same with different names. -Claims to shoot rol L xxx -metric? Claims it is a trap, but never mentions who got trapped -weird vote on Palmar based on day 1 scum lynch % -read on every player in the game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=295384¤tpage=23#457 -claims blue -Insists GM lied about his shot *** -After people question him, asks others to provide an explanation of what happened -Claims that GM leaving us in the dark is "pro-town" -Promises to share his scum suspects later. Instead provides jackal's suspects rather than his own -Mentions me as a vig target, without providing a strong explanation -Pushes RoL for lynch -Changes his read on bum, after calling him clear town earlier Wiggles ### -first post wall of text -noncommital on LSB read, seems to go both ways http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=295384¤tpage=33#650 -Presents scenarios in large post, yet never posts which option he prefers -another useless scenario post Palmar (black...likely traitor) ### -not actively pushing a lynch on day one like usual -votes GM for hydra comment -weird vote on L based on day 1 scum lynch % -Hard defends me. Comes off as overconfident Chezinu -traitor? "mafia know all of the blue roles" scum slip? "mafia knows how the blue roles are triggered." -defends bum, mason? -votes palmar without any strong reasoning -roleblocked -Lied about roleblock??? chaoser (Liar vig) ### -Defends L for metric post -Shoots Palmar, possible accidental mafia hit? liar vig explanation doesn't provide necessary proof -Questions L after weird post that GM lied about hits bum (good manner vig) -responsibility points??? -soft defends chez, mason? -unvotes hydra, seems unconfident -claims trigger/blue -supports GM's claim over LSB's, doesn't want to let both shoot -Wishy-washy analysis of wiggles, no real conclusion -only person around before lynch -timing of role claim is weird BC (vig?) ### -pushes palmar for uninspired play/neutral topics after talking about rng -"was only able to shoot gm, and the possibility of him claiming "i got rbed" was far too likely if he was red. As such I fired." -Claims vig late into the cycle, poor reasoning LSB (Overly righteous Vigilante) xxx -green read on bugs, despite LSB anaylsis -red read on hydra, weak reasoning "I'm against the Foolishness lynch simply because it's a bad idea to lynch a vet day 1" (mentions BC also should be exempt) -Claims blue....scum have names of blue roles GGQ ### -Several walls of text prpl (spam vig, shoots bugs) ### -random votes VE -Waking up in middle of night for lynch, votes lsb with little reasoning, after shooting down the analysis against him *** -Provides an analysis on BC, comes to the conclusion "hostile"...doesn't directly imply he is scum -jumps on the chezinu roleblock (knows he wasn't as scum?), isn't willing to consider 2 rbers if gm was rb'd? VE ### -talking about SK -moving his vote around a lot, pressuring players -"SLJ, Foolishness, and chaoser." -Makes a case against GM, changes his vote, then immediately changes back -Doesn't want LSB to get a chance to shoot -Pushes suspicion on GM being traitor, which doesn't make sense with blue claim since a kp would be missing -Casts doubt on anyone that wasn't on LSB Foolishness Foolishness is considered by a large number of people to be TL's strongest town player. His reads are almost always dead on and he is willing to put in the necessary time as town. This game, Foolishness has displayed nothing that would lead me to believe he cares about town. Most of his posts are one-liners, many which are spam or trolling. He is putting little effort into promoting a strong town environment. In Ver's analysis thread, he mentions how important day one is in establishing oneself as town. I haven't seen one example where he is trying to do so. In his most recent game as scum (Pick Their Power Mafia), Foolishness displayed similar behavior. He invented his own post restriction and trolled the entire game. As maifa, I also have a habbit of trolling because it is so easy to do. Neither of these posts promote a good town environment. He is trying to be a comedian, rather than hunt scum. As for the reads he does have, he provides little explanation. He mentions we should "Ignore Chezinu, silence bugs, kill L", but never explains why. Foolishness has made little attempt to pressure anyone into making a scum slip. His votes provide absoultely no explanation at all. Foolishness really doesn't care who town lynches. All he cares about is his own survival. He makes sure that he doesn't upset anyone the entire day. He does post an analysis finally against bugs, but that is only when he realizes he will have to make a contribution or he will be lynched. In PTP, Foolishness made a similar case against myself. ##Vote Foolishness Day 1 Vote Count With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch. Current votes: LSB (12): wherebugsgo, SamuelLJackson, Jackal58, BloodyC0bbler, VisceraEyes, syllogism, -VisceraEyes, VisceraEyes, Palmar, Foolishness, bumatlarge, Liquid`Sheth, GMarshal, -Liquid`Sheth, GGQ, prplhz, -Foolishness, Mr. Wiggles GMarshal (2): Palmar, -Palmar, GGQ, VisceraEyes, -VisceraEyes, kitaman27, Liquid`Sheth, -GGQ, Foolishness, Mr. Wiggles, -kitaman27, -Mr. Wiggles L (1): chaoser, Palmar, -Palmar Palmar (1): VisceraEyes, -VisceraEyes, VisceraEyes, Chezinu, bumatlarge, -VisceraEyes, L, -bumatlarge, -Chezinu Foolishness (1): VisceraEyes, -VisceraEyes, kitaman27 SamuelLJackson (1): GMarshal, bumatlarge, Chezinu, VisceraEyes, -bumatlarge, -VisceraEyes, -Chezinu, LSB, -GMarshal, -LSB, Chezinu Chezinu (1): RebirthOfLeGenD VisceraEyes (1): prplhz, LSB, -prplhz kitaman27 (0): GMarshal, -GMarshal BloodyC0bbler (0): Mr. Wiggles, -Mr. Wiggles Liquid`Sheth (0): kitaman27, -kitaman27 Voting ends at December 22 2011 14:00. (It's over.) Day 2 Vote Count With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch. Current votes: BloodyC0bbler (7): RebirthOfLeGenD, Mr. Wiggles, Liquid`Sheth, prplhz, syllogism, bumatlarge, kitaman27 wherebugsgo (1): Foolishness syllogism (1): chaoser Foolishness (1): wherebugsgo Mr. Wiggles (1): bumatlarge, -bumatlarge, GGQ prplhz (0): kitaman27, -kitaman27 Chezinu (0): prplhz, -prplhz Voting ends at December 27 2011 14:00. (It's over.) Well it worked.......For about half a cycle until bum changed his mind for the fourth time in one day. Oww. On January 08 2012 15:33 Ver wrote: The biggest WTF part of the game was the roleblocker. Let's look at what the roleblocker did specifically. N1: roleblock Gmarshal (shooting RoL , being shot himself anyway by other vigis) N2: roleblock Foolishness (shooting L, shot by mafia) N3: Roleblock Sheth (shooting Meapak , would have committed suicide too) N5: Roleblock Bum (shooting RoL ) Basically mafia roleblocks always hit the mark except the no shot/no lynch cycle and over the course of the game saved 4 townies and 1 mafia from death! Some of the roleblocks made sense (foolishness), while others were bizarre (gmarshal). Sheth summed it up perfectly: In a very hilarious scenario, Sheth agonized the entire night 3 over who to shoot, Kita or Meapak. For the entire day he's going with Kita but is not entirely certain. An hour left in the night he starts second guessing himself and in the last minute changes to Meapak. Then after all that agonizing, he gets roleblocked instead of killing 2 townies Over the course of 5 nights, my roleblock had saved FOUR different townies from night shots. If any of those had been allowed to go through, we would have won the game. QQ. Exibit C: PTP IV - Demon's Run (Third Party TARDIS seeker/survivor/mafia survivor traitor) And now we're back to the latest chapter in my series of crushing defeats. This game I was given a really difficult role for which I had to obtain an item from a player whose identity was unknown and survive until the end of the game. I could not win with town, however, meaning that I had to either act as a serial killer with no protection from night shots or act as a traitor who had to avoid a lynch. I decided to claim survivor on night one to avoid night hits, received the item related to my win condition, and masoned myself with the mafia team in order to work together. After shooting Dandel a couple of times, I managed to make it to endgame, but this was quite possibly the most bizzare scenario yet. Four players remained: myself (third party), austin (mafia), gonzaw (town), and crossfire (town with protective role). I don't control my own vote due to a night action, so I had convince gonzaw and crossfire to lynch austin and I would win the game as a serial killer. Under normal circumstances, this should have been increddibly easy, considering what austin did next: On July 02 2013 09:55 austinmcc wrote: I dunno what to tell you. I don't gots. Here's relevant chat starting with D3. BC had just checked geript. Heck, even if i DID gots, I dunno that it's functional (but again, don't gots) + Show Spoiler + 148 austinmcc 06-29-2013 04:55 PM ET (US) I don't know that I am though. How am I exposed? I acutally think BC isn't lying when he says cross or gonzaw might be scum. AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. 147 GeriptPerson was signed in when posted 06-29-2013 04:51 PM ET (US) Just trust me best option. 146 GeriptPerson was signed in when posted 06-29-2013 04:51 PM ET (US) We're dead either way if you don't. You're already exposed. 145 austinmcc 06-29-2013 04:45 PM ET (US) There's too much crap to risk unvote imo. Whatever crossfire does, gonzaw's crap, like...there's a LOT of unknown. 144 austinmcc 06-29-2013 04:39 PM ET (US) YOYO. Were you forced to vote for kita or die? Did you get that PM? 143 austinmcc 06-29-2013 04:34 PM ET (US) Ugh. I don't like this at all. e: With him popping his head in over and over, asking if he needs to vote, i DO believe him. Stump roles not all that common on TL, I could see them giving him a last hurrah. Edited 06-29-2013 04:36 PM 142 GeriptPerson was signed in when posted 06-29-2013 04:33 PM ET (US) No he can't. At least don't believe him. Just switch got at last second. 141 austinmcc 06-29-2013 04:26 PM ET (US) Also, WoS can unstump and vote apparently, making it 4-3 and we'll all be in open 140 austinmcc 06-29-2013 04:26 PM ET (US) I don't know that we are though. Ask if you have to vote for kitaman. If xatalos's power is real, then ... we can't be 3-3 can we? 139 GeriptPerson was signed in when posted 06-29-2013 04:25 PM ET (US) We are 3-3 and kill town tonight. 138 GeriptPerson was signed in when posted 06-29-2013 04:24 PM ET (US) Go vote for not BC, not Gonzaw not Kita. Deny the lynch. 137 austinmcc 06-29-2013 02:41 PM ET (US) Or does kita not have to kill mason buddy? Can kita still you? AAAHHHHHHHH. We've either won or lost or something but I can't tell. 136 austinmcc 06-29-2013 02:34 PM ET (US) Did kita have the tardis today and use it? Or...how else does DI die? Okay, trying to math it up. If we lynch kitaman and get a kill tonight, we're good. If we lynch you, then kitaman probably kills me tomorrow and town wins. No reason for them not to. There's a chance we get one cycle with town killing crossfire, if BC checks me, but unsure. If we no lynch, it's...unclear what happens. 135 austinmcc 06-29-2013 01:59 PM ET (US) Ugh, do we go for this? We could 3-3 it up, but probably better to kill kita, and then kill a townie overnight, yeah? Whatever WoS's thing is is the only thing left that can screw us over really, right? Kita dies today. Townie dies overnight hopefully. That leaves 2 of crossfire/BC/gonzaw alive, WoS stumped, and the two of us. 134 austinmcc 06-29-2013 12:44 PM ET (US) kita def not traitor if that was him, or I think we would have won right there. But apparently working with us now, guess pissed at DI and WoS. 133 austinmcc 06-28-2013 10:42 PM ET (US) I'ma try and push things towards lynching you. You've got magical powers town doesn't know about, and can possibly "absorb kp." Gotta lynch you since you're more difficult to deal with, natch. I think you've done a really nice job of causing the right amount of havoc and distraction in thread. I dunno if you need to ramp that up to be visible, or if that will make it look like you're trying to get yourself lynched over kita, making town want to lynch him more. So silly. Our scum team needs them to lynch a specific scum because then it's basically a no-lynch, whereas them lynching another scummy guy blows for us. 132 austinmcc 06-28-2013 04:47 PM ET (US) Worst part is I can't tell if this is all a ploy. Based on Gonzaw's posts, I think he legitimately believes he's got this figured out. But he made the role earlier, when he didn't feel that way. So he probably created a role that really does something, and it's not a bluff to pull action out of us? Not that we can really do anything except for kita, whatever he is, maybe shooting. 131 austinmcc 06-28-2013 04:18 PM ET (US) #YUBJUB#YUBJUB#YUBJUB#YUBJUB#YUBJUB#YUBJUB#YUBJUB#YUBJUB#YUBJUB#YUBJUB#YUBJUB#YUBJUB#YUBJUB#YUBJUB#YUBJUB#YUBJUB 130 austinmcc 06-28-2013 04:02 PM ET (US) PLEASE DON'T RUIN OUR PLANS EWOK WHISTLE #YUBJUB 129 austinmcc 06-28-2013 03:39 PM ET (US) I never really considered scum getting my role, wanted to see it end up in townie hands. Thought they could maybe get some extra information, discern some alignments, based on choices that others made. But in scum hands, you either let town do stuff with it or incriminate yourself and maybe teammates. 128 austinmcc 06-28-2013 03:37 PM ET (US) I haven't been using my power to give us vigi powers because I'm dumb/didn't want to get caught by role usage. I'm paranoid about that since it semi-happened in another game. Like, I had to send out 4 PMs each day, so town knows about the PMs. If I ever have to reveal that I'm the source, it wouldn't look good if I sent PMs to you guys and had you vig someone, but I could have asked them to choose ME and vigi and shoot someone N1. Woulda been better usage. Blech. So...kita can only shoot you? And you'll die, right before deadline, but resurrect or whatever? 127 GeriptPerson was signed in when posted 06-28-2013 03:29 PM ET (US) Essentially try to use the shot as a pardon. 126 GeriptPerson was signed in when posted 06-28-2013 03:28 PM ET (US) The plan is to have Kita shoot me. I'll come back from it. Also why haven't you been using your power to give us vigilante powers? 125 austinmcc 06-28-2013 01:34 PM ET (US) Ah, shitballs. If Zephirdd wrote his role so that the mason dude HAS to vigi his mason partner, I think kita is shooting YOU today and not anyone else. It fits with nobody claiming yesterday, nobody being dayvigied yesterday by an unknown role. He masons solstice D1, shoots solstice. Masons you D3, shoots you. This is super mega balls for us if that's the case...I think? Means only one death today and it's you, whether by lynch or shot, and kita comes out looking great if he shot you, except maybe we can play it as a bus. Ack. e: Can you just absorb kita's shot? Edited 06-28-2013 02:31 PM 124 austinmcc 06-27-2013 09:24 PM ET (US) Only... 43.5 more hours of this. 123 austinmcc 06-27-2013 09:16 PM ET (US) Okay, our chances kind of turn on him. There's a pretty good chance he still thinks I'm mafia. If he wants, he can royally screw us by shooting me as they lynch you. If he shoots at town though, takes out either gonzaw or BC, then we've got a shot. Maybe with DI being town he'll shoot at them. 122 GeriptPerson was signed in when posted 06-27-2013 09:04 PM ET (US) yes so far as i know. If they hit me, then i'll tell him so he can boot me out for 24 hours at a minute out... or that's the plan at least. If they don't hit me, then he kills someone else... likely gonzaw. 121 austinmcc 06-27-2013 07:18 PM ET (US) Can he dayvig today? 120 GeriptPerson was signed in when posted 06-27-2013 07:18 PM ET (US) yes and yes 119 austinmcc 06-27-2013 07:16 PM ET (US) Did he kill solstice or rb BC D1? We still don't actually know what either of those things was. There's a chance BC is actually some kind of 3P or...something. I dunno. Dis game. 118 GeriptPerson was signed in when posted 06-27-2013 07:09 PM ET (US) well 2 cycles 144 hrs... not gonna happen clearly. 117 GeriptPerson was signed in when posted 06-27-2013 07:07 PM ET (US) i'm quite sure he's some sort of 3p b/c if i stay masoned with him for so long then i become starcrossed lovers with him. 116 austinmcc 06-27-2013 07:02 PM ET (US) This game finally turned into a PTP. We don't know if kita is actually recruited. If he is, and flips mafia, we may be in a good spot. Oddddddddddddddddddddddddd 115 austinmcc 06-27-2013 06:35 PM ET (US) Yeah, sorry. The don't overplay it was for thread, but frankly I don't have any clue what's going on anymore. Just worried about everyone firing off KP and us getting smoked. Lol KP formula. Wtb moar kp. Maybe we recruit him and get a second or something completely dirty like that and then lose it within a day because ACK ACK ACK. KITA I SORRY. 114 GeriptPerson was signed in when posted 06-27-2013 06:31 PM ET (US) Ie. I'm not telling him KP formula or anything. 113 GeriptPerson was signed in when posted 06-27-2013 06:31 PM ET (US) Dude give me some credit. And not Traitor is comple bullshit on top of it. 112 austinmcc 06-27-2013 06:25 PM ET (US) Uuuuuuurg. We should have considered traitor with only 3 mafia. I'd been thinking he'd be an assassin or some other 3rd party with KP to help drop numbers. 111 austinmcc 06-27-2013 06:23 PM ET (US) Don't overplay it. Oh goddamn it. Figure out if there's a way to activate it or something I guess. Do NOT tell him I'm mafia, in case he's actually some other 3P. 110 GeriptPerson was signed in when posted 06-27-2013 06:19 PM ET (US) FYI Kita claimed mafia traitor. Idk what to believe w/ him. In mason chat w/ him. 109 GeriptPerson was signed in when posted 06-27-2013 06:14 PM ET (US) I'm just trying to hijack the thread as much as possible. 108 austinmcc 06-27-2013 06:13 PM ET (US) It still sent out PMs, lololololol. Maybe this wastes BC's action? I dunno. Almost bad for us if it does and we could get kita shot today, 1 less player to worry about. 107 GeriptPerson was signed in when posted 06-27-2013 06:10 PM ET (US) No TARDIS. Btw. Totally can't mortal combat again. Just fucking up the thread 106 austinmcc 06-27-2013 05:54 PM ET (US) Really hoping that you can actually do that AND got the TARDIS. We're so almost close to being in an okay spot...ish. Did you get it? 105 GeriptPerson was signed in when posted 06-27-2013 05:40 PM ET (US) Fuck no I protected you. 104 austinmcc 06-27-2013 05:35 PM ET (US) lololol. Are you actually protecting kita or just dicking with folks? 103 austinmcc 06-27-2013 04:12 PM ET (US) BC WHY YOU GOTTA TRY AND RUIN MY SCUMGAMES 102 austinmcc 06-27-2013 04:07 PM ET (US) Balls. Not only did he claim mafia, but he posted the mafia quicktopic in the thread to prove it! Town believed that they had a 50% change of blocking a shot if they sided with mafia. Since my shot was during the day, they couldn't prevent it. I had to convince them that the game would end after austin's death and that I was a survivor, rather than a mafia traitor survivor (lame). After spending the entire cycle yelling at each other, it came down to the final minutes, where they appeared to have finally broke. On July 03 2013 05:59 Crossfire99 wrote: gonzaw, we got 2 minutes. What are we doing lol? On July 03 2013 06:00 gonzaw wrote: Well, last minute switch to austin? On July 03 2013 06:01 Crossfire99 wrote: gonzaw you voting austin? On July 03 2013 06:01 gonzaw wrote: xfire if you want to swap i have the vote made I won't swap first just in case lol On July 03 2013 06:01 gonzaw wrote: do we have time? - Deadline is reached - On July 03 2013 06:03 gonzaw wrote: I didn't want to swap so fast because if you DIDNT swap this would be even more fucked up lol On July 03 2013 06:04 Crossfire99 wrote: i was here, i was waiting for you to switch lol? On July 03 2013 06:07 gonzaw wrote: I was waiting for YOU to switch ...well this is embarrasing :/ Hope he flips SK lol Oh god, that hurt. Game: TL Mafia LXII: TL Noir Role: Mafia Roleblocker Theme: It is really easy to earn town cred when replacing an inactive player. Mafia replacements can be incredibly difficult to catch sometimes. On day one or two, the original player has likely contributed very little to the thread, while managing to avoid a policy lynch. When they are eventually replaced due to activity, the replacement player is usually given a grace period where they have the opportunity catch up with the thread and start posting. By the time they have finally started contributing, it's possible that you're only a cycle or two away from LYLO. While a replacement is better than the alternative option of a modkill, a mafia replacement can put the town in a disadvantage.As town one of the goals has to be to get the replacement talking as soon as possible. Sometimes this requires putting additional effort into questioning and pressuring them since there is so little to go by otherwise. + Show Spoiler + I replaced into this game as mafia on day three on page 240/323. Obviously with a game of this size, people aren't going to expect that I'm caught up immediately, but I was surprised to find out that how little people expected me to contribute during my first cycle. Essentially the only opinion that I provided initially was that the lynch seemed "reasonable". My next six posts were essentially mentioning that I was reading the thread and trying to catch up. Nobody actually attempted to ask my opinion until I confirmed that I was completely caught up. By the end of day three, people were starting to pick up on the lack of contribution and started asking for reads. Essentially I came up with two large posts summarizing my thoughts on the game and proceeded to be active for a 48 hour period. I think people were so happy to see that I had contributed something compared to the player that I replaced that they didn't put much thought into my alignment. My short burst of activity seemed to be viewed as townie enough that I was able to sit through the next few mislynches without much effort or consideration for a lynch. Nobody really even attempted to verify that I had read the thread. During postgame, JAT made the following two statements: On October 05 2013 12:21 justanothertownie wrote: Kita... really? ... This effort was not needed. On October 05 2013 12:33 justanothertownie wrote: Yeah.. Kita would have won this game anyway because he was the towniest player still in this game. These statements were rather curious, considering that in a game which lasted 360 hours, I had been active for only a 48 period, which comes out to only 13% of the game. I'm sure I benefited by replacing into a position where the mafia team already had a firm grasp on the game, but I definitely was let off easy. I know that I've been guilty of ignoring the replacement myself, simply hoping that they would eventually step up their game. The question is, what is the best way to deal with a replacement player? Should most day one or day two lynches be determined based on policy? Perhaps, but that isn't very realistic. Policy lynches are usually considered a last resort and it would lead to some pretty uninteresting games if you only decided to lynch based on filter size, although I'm sure there are a few individuals with 30 page filters that wouldn't mind. Is there a good way to pressure an inactive player into posting without resorting to a lynch? Well, not really. If they're inactive, they likely aren't even around to be aware of the pressure. Should the replacement player be pressured to contribute earlier into the replacement? I'm not so sure. An uninformed opinion is nearly as useless as someone without an opinion. Asking a replacement player to comment on certain events also delays their ability to catch up with the thread and post something useful. I suppose the best way is to scrutinize the contributions they do eventually make and hope you're able to pick up on something before it's too late. Game: Aperture Mafia 2: Episode 2 Role: Speaker for the Dead Theme: The timing and execution of a role claim has a huge impact on it's effectiveness An important part of a role claim is deciding when the value of the claim outweighs the benefit of keeping your identity a secret. One of the costs of role claiming is that you're likely going to be targeted with a night hit immediately after the claim. A well timed role claim can be used to gain control of the thread and use the town cred to direct the lynch, reveal information about the alignment of others or to reveal information about ones own alignment. Avoiding a lynch is an important part of playing town and if you have a means of proving your alignment to the thread, then that can be used as a powerful tool to swing the direction of the cycle and possibly the game. Now I'm not saying that claiming medic at the deadline is going to prove anything. However, if there is evidence that you used your role in a pro-town manner than it's possible to get yourself out of a sticky situation. Obviously the toughest part is to pull off the medic save or an investigative check first, but once you do, you need to decide how the timing of the claim can best impact the game. I'm going to focus on the timing of investigative claims by relating it back to past games I have played in. You generally have seven options after obtaining the results of a check: 1) Breadcrumb the check. This is often a risk since if it's too obvious, the mafia team will pick up on it immediately and target you with a night hit. If it's not obvious enough, you run the risk of having it completely ignored upon your death. Always keep an eye out for these kind of breadcrumbs as town after a cop is killed. If you happen to pick up on a statement where they suddenly post the alignment of a player with 100% certainty, it may be a breadcrumb. As a detective, you also need to be aware of not accidentally posting a statement that could be misinterpreted upon your flip. Insane Mafia -Town "Watcher"- This game I was actually a tracker and had tracked Ace to a kill. The process of claiming became a huge headache when several individuals suddenly thought that I had messed up the fake claim because I had received the wrong role name from the host. I breadcrumbed the check initially and then revealed the claim when I felt we needed to pull off the red lynch to win the game at that point. On November 08 2010 06:04 kitaman27 wrote: Ace was involved in last night's hit and is also responsible the spread of M-Rus. He must be lynched. On November 08 2010 07:54 Ace wrote: He didn't do this because he was waiting...right. Waiting to see who the lynch wagon was going to hit today before coming through with this "breakthrough" information. This is one of the worst role claims ever since it doesn't even make SENSE. How are you so quick to believe this? On November 07 2010 08:39 kitaman27 wrote: Agreed. Carefully watching the lurkers should be a priority. Especially those who disappear for periods of time after the town has formed a majority opinion. The breadcrumb definitely helped validate my claim since it showed that I wasn't being opportunistic with the reveal. Looking back, I definitely shouldn't have used the word "watching" to breadcrumb a watcher role, but nobody happened to pick up on it thankfully. Claiming at this point actually cost me a red check on L the following night as I was shot. I think the timing of the claim was still reasonable, but the execution was incredibly poor, as Ace actually wasn't lynched this cycle. I attribute most of this to being a newbie and not completely understanding all the mechanics of a game, but it's still something that never should have been allowed to happen. 2) Post the check from the previous cycle at the deadline. Deadling posting allows you to guarantee that the thread will be aware of the check, even if you die. Ideally, you want to make it so the mafia team is unable to react to the claim and target you with a night hit. If you survive the night, you have the opportunity to pull off one last check. TL Mafia XXXVIII -Town Watcher- I decided to sit on the check during the day since town was in a decent position. I had watched DropBear and bumatlarge both visit a player who had been targeted with a roleblock. Therefore, I knew that one of these players was the mafia roleblocker and the other was a blue role. On night three, I had a difficult choice to make at the deadline because I wasn't sure if I should reveal the entire results of the night action or only one name. At this point, I was concerned about a night hit and wasn't confident that that a simple case would be enough to convince the town to follow through with a lynch after I died. I had about an 80% mafia read on DropBear and a town read on bum, but it wasn't a sure thing in my mind. The reason that I revealed the names of both players was that if DropBear was mafia, then the game was close to won by claiming both names. However, if DropBear happened to flip town, there was a strong chance that bum would win in endgame. I'm still not really sure if this was the best decision as we did trade the watcher and medic for only one mafia, but it did happen to work out in the end. 3) PM the result of the check to certain players that you trust. This obviously works in PM games. You need to find a balance between ensuring that the check can survive a round of night kills and ensuring that you aren't revealing the check and your identity to a mafia player. If this option is available, it can be a really strong way to start a town circle and figure out the rest of the game. 4) Create a case against the player that you know is mafia. When you have the knowledge that a player is mafia, you want to get the most info out of this info. If the mafia team is unaware that they are facing a 1:1 trade, they are more likely to be willing to defend their scumbuddy during the day. Flipping 1 out of 6 mafia in a unanimous lynch is not nearly as valuable as flipping a mafia in a contested lynch and using that information to identify others. By singling out the player that is mafia, you're setting yourself up for a night hit or roleblock and you are less likely to receive medic protection compared to a flat out claim, so be aware of the risk. Harry Potter Mafia! -Town Medic- This game can be applied to both options above. The setup was rather broken in the fact that each player had a named role that correlated with their alignment and that everyone was allowed to use PMs. Some people argue that scum slips don't exist, but that obviously isn't the case with this one. My role was the medic, Madam Pomfrey. While exchanging PMs with another player, they were convinced to share their role, claiming that they were Madam Pomfrey as well. As town, this is like hitting the Jackpot since I knew they had to be lying, as duplicate role names were impossible. Soniv knew my role due to his own investigative night actions, so I shared the information with him. A case was made against the confirmed mafia player and the mafia team chose to hard defend him in this situation. Based on the results of the vote and PM exchanges, we were eventually able to coordinate night actions and name claims until the game had been solved. 5) Immediately claim the check. This is generally the best option during late game situations where the check will end the game or you're certain that you cannot lynch this player without it. Generally I'll always try option 4 first. Storm Mafia -Town Hider- As a hider, you have the benefit of being able to reveal checks, while being able to protect yourself from night hits. In fact, it actually benefits you to draw mafia night actions since they are essentially wasted. Generally, you want to identify town targets that are unlikely to be night hit, rather than mafia players, since a red check will result in your death. In this case, I used the green check to solidify my control over the thread. Sometimes the ability to confirm yourself as town through your role is more important than the check itself. Town was in a position where we needed to pull off five consecutive lynches to win the game, so I attempted something drastic. I fake claimed a town check on a Toad in attempt to swing a mislynch onto a mafia player. Generally, a player who does this is incredibly selfish because they willing to risk the game on their own reads. Knowing that I wouldn't have enough influence to push a lynch based on a case alone, I was willing to make this gamble. If toad was indeed mafia, then I would be throwing the game. Smelling blood, the entire mafia team decided to oppose my check, keeping their vote on my "green check". Town did manage to all vote together to secure the next four lynches, but I should probably have added this to my list of gut wrenching losses, since at 2v1, the remaining townie decided I was the Serial Killer, despite the investigative checks. 6) Keep the check to yourself and hope that you don't get shot. I don't actually have a good example for this one. In most cases, I think the first five options are going to be superior. There is just too much risk in taking the information to the grave unless you know that you almost certainly aren't a night hit target or you have guaranteed medic protection. 7) Troll the town with the dt claim, without actually posting the results Team Melee Mini Mafia - Couples Therapy -Town Parity Cop- As a parity cop, we had a different check, between two sets of players, but it wasn't completely apparent who was guilty immediately. It was also a 5v2 scenario so we need to identify both mafia teams within the next two cycles. We decided to claim parity cop without revealing the results in an attempt to gauge thread reaction. By claiming a role that wasn't counter-claimed, we would have complete control at LYLO and then attempt to figure out alignments based on how certain teams reacted. We intended to reveal the check eventually, but what actually happened was that the other town players got so frustrated that they decided to throw down their vote at LYLO in an instant majority setup before the check was actually revealed. They actually voted for a team that wasn't part of the opposite parity check. While both scum pairings were lynched, this really could have backfired due to poor execution. Now how does this tangent on revealing investigative checks relate back to Aperature Mafia 2? Well, I forget, but that is beside the point. Lets be honest, who is still reading by now anyways? As speaker for the dead, I was able to reveal the actions performed on them when they died. Hassy claimed to have medic protected VE so I decided to use my role to verify that he was telling the truth. It was revealed that Hassy was lying about his role and in hilarious fashion, we mislynched him as town since he forgot to submit his action. I give myself a 10/10 in execution on this one. Game: PYP: League of Legends Mafia Role: Co-Host Theme: Adding complexity to a setup doesn't necessarily make it more entertaining. Usually I just cover games that I've played in, but this time I'm going to discuss my experience as a co-host. Wave was incredibly ambitious hosting his first game. As a Pick Your Power game, there was approximately 60 champions to choose from, each with 2 roles a piece. On top of that, players were given a HP total, rather than a single life, and abilities and night hits were based on modifying one's HP total. Add to that a banning phase, a draft phase, and a whole lot of weird role interactions and you can see how things could get pretty crazy. A cost of having all of these complex mechanics was that it gave us hosts less control over how we wanted the game to play out. It was a balancing nightmare and it was incredibly difficult to predict possible outcomes. Despite our attempts at predicting the flow of the game based on a couple mock runs, we quickly discovered that balancing the HP and KP was an extremely difficult task. Looking back, I think there are a few things that we could have done to make the setup cleaner, without necessarily removing the aspects that were considered fun. 1) Reduce the role list to 30. Coming up with a ton of potential roles was really entertain, but in the end, the vast majority of the roles were never used. Rather than including 60 interesting champions, I believe we should have selected the 30 most interesting champions. With crazy role interactions like Leblanc using mimic to copy another role, it's a lot easier to consider each scenario and identity any potential game breaking actions when the champion pool is smaller. When considering a mechanic, I think you have to evaluate it from two perspectives: as a host and as a player. While I can certainly see a player enjoying a larger role pool during the selection phase, once the game begins, those 30 unused roles are pretty irrelevant. However, from the hosting side of things, there is a large amount of overhead that goes along with each role. With 30 players, choosing from 60 roles there are 118,264,581,564,861,424 possible role assignment combinations. As in 118 quadrillions. That's larger than our national debt, the size of this blog, and the number of times Toad admires himself in the mirror per day! We're not even taking into account the drafting phase or the fact that for each role, during each night cycle they can choose between multiple night actions across 30 potential targets. It was simply too difficult to manage. Some may make the argument that a themed game like this is not meant to be balanced. People sign up for the experience, rather than the assurance that everyone has a fair shot at winning. While there are certainly merits to this argument, in the end, I think the benefit to the players was too small to make up for the issues that it caused. 2) Remove the PYP aspect of the game. I know a ton of people enjoy the Pick Your Power draft, myself included. However, I don't think this game was the best fit in retrospect. By attempting to use a HP system, we really needed to know roles available to the mafia and town factions in order to get a good idea of each faction's potential killing power every night. Without knowing the roles assigned to each faction before the game begins, who knows whether a mafia kp of 2000 or 5000 makes more sense. A pick your power game that uses normal roles is much more stable because each role has a more relative power level and there are less interactions that could completely swing the game. In this setup, it was probably possible for ten different players to end up dead on the first night if things lined up the right way. Furthermore, in a standard PYP game, you know what you're getting during role selection. However, in this setup, 50% of the champion's abilities were hidden. With a lot of the champion-defining mechanics being unknown, players were unable to "Pick Your Power" if they weren't completely sure what they were getting. The problem with removing the PYP phase would be that it removed a player's ability to select their favorite champion. Obviously I'm not referring to anyone in particular, but if we had an individual who happened to have an unhealthy obsession with Viktor, the PYP mechanic would allow them to play as that role. One option we could have considered would be to allow players to send in a champion preference prior to starting. That way we would could have attempted to still assign roles based on preference, without giving up the knowledge of which powers were available to each faction. Another issue would be that we would need to nerf the strength of each blue role as we would remove the possibility of a draft overlap, resulting in a vanilla assignment. 3) Keep the PYP aspect of the game and balance the numbers after the picks were made. This was discussed a bit during the balance phase, but eventually we decided against it. The biggest advantage of this option would be to include the draft that many players enjoy, while still maintaining the ability to balance based on the roles assigned to each faction. The drawback was that it would essentially invalidate any advantage gained during the drafting phase. If town happened to overlap eight times and mafia got 4 out of the top 6 roles, the numbers would still be balanced based on the picks and the game would begin on an even foothold. I considered discussing the removal of the Hit Point aspect of the game, but I think that was one of the aspects that made the game so unique. Sure, it's been done a couple times in games like Chrono Trigger or Game of Thrones, but many of the HP modifying mechanics were new and creative. From a player perspective, I think it brought several options to the table that would allow town to coordinate night actions without having the outcome as clear cut as a lynch or standard vig shot. It also allowed more players to be involved by scaling back the effectiveness of the damage dealing and protective roles. I wasn't completely satisfied by the mafia kp values and certain shielding roles available to town by the end of the game. I think this should have been our focus while working on the setup, rather than devoting so much time to other aspects of the game. Despite the concerns, I think the game went off as good as we could have hoped for. There were obviously some problems that we experienced along the way, but overall I think the outcome wasn't completely one sided, the night actions were interesting, and the game was entertaining for most players involved. Game: Shadow Mini Mafia Role: Vanilla Town Theme: It's important to find a balance between the amount of time invested into a game and the enjoyment that you get out of playing. It's no secret that playing mafia can be incredibly time consuming at times. Occasionally, I'll find myself thinking that a game seems more like a chore than a source of entertainment. I wouldn't say that the stress of a game ever bothers me, but it's more the obligation of activity that you commit to when joining a game. Certain aspects of a mafia have always been more appealing to me than others. I enjoy the challenges in analyzing a setup, arguing with others to convince them that your opinion is valid, and the community in general. However, scum hunting is actually something that I rarely look forward to. Sure, it's satisfying to know you're right afterwards, but the process to get there can be painful. Identifying scummy characteristics throughout the day isn't too bad, but deciding who I want to push for a lynch is the toughest part. I find myself pushing that decision off later and later into the cycle, until I finally have to bite the bullet and do the dirty work. In the Shadow Mini, each cycle, I'd find myself having a short list of 2-3 players that I would consider for a lynch, but I was struggling to pick out the best one. On day one, it was between Promethelax and Sandroba, on day two between VisceraEyes, Foolishness and Toadesstern, and on day three between Foolishness and marvellosity. I actually ended up choosing wrong all three times. Being wrong happens a lot, even to the best players. However, the frustrating part is putting in the time to look for mafia players, rereading the thread, reading individual filters numerous times, and investigating their past history, only to find out that your time was wasted. On three separate occasions a coin flip would have been more effective than spending 5+ hours a cycle struggling to come to a decision. Obviously I'm not arguing that all lynches to be chosen at random from now on, but I do think that there are times where putting more effort into a game isn't always worth the return. For example, do I feel that spending four hours a day on a game is going to cause my reads to be more accurate than two hours a day? Probably. Do I feel that spending the additional two hours is going to greatly improve the accuracy of my reads? It's less clear. Is devoting the extra time to something that I don't enjoy going to negatively impact my overall experience? Definitely. It's totally possible that I'm not utilizing the extra time in the most efficient way, but that's a separate issue. At times this game, rather than rereading the thread, I do feel that taking a step back and getting a fresh start the next day would have been more effective. I think I fell into the trap of making certain assumptions about the game, rather than looking at the big picture. Spending more time isn't going to put me on the right path if I've already eliminated that path. After looking at the game with each players alignment in mind, some things seem pretty obvious now. However, when you're trapped in the moment things are rarely as clear. Anyways, I've probably rambled on for long enough. Thanks for reading and hope to see you around! | ||
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Koshi got rels to turn on mderg Like what more is there to say? | ||
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I know you can do it again | ||
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One for the 2018 awards lol | ||
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If that was the play aa mafia.. i deserve to lose bro | ||
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Personally i think the decision is quite easybwhen you think how koshi set this up. Then look at how he has flipped his reads on me twice withoit ever discussing motivation | ||
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Why am i scum? | ||
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Like ffs | ||
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2 town lychds bruh | ||
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On February 02 2018 20:13 Koshi wrote: I did by far the most analysis the last day btw. Read all filters multile times. And made 200 posts. Dnu why you are so upset. I did moaaaar than enough To lynch a townie bruh Totally And your slot was under heat.. no townie points for yoy | ||
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This is pointless Tell me.. why am i scum Day 1 to now I dare you | ||
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On February 02 2018 20:19 justanothertownie wrote: before night kill ....What is he supposed to do if he is town? Keep townreading you? | ||
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On February 02 2018 20:23 Koshi wrote: This all begging and pleading thing is not my thing. It also doesnt work imo. Fully agree with this Maybe we lynch jat together lol | ||
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On February 02 2018 20:16 Mocsta wrote: im still waitingJat This is pointless Tell me.. why am i scum Day 1 to now I dare you | ||
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On February 02 2018 20:34 Koshi wrote: I think this was actually a good thing. HF made a couple good posts about mocsta. Man... reading my page 1... I should have done that earlier. But Mocsta filter is top notch. But because you dive too deep. On the surface the feeling in the thread was against Mocsta. But once in the swamps. Countered: On January 30 2018 19:51 Koshi wrote: Mocsta is actually obvious town lol. Goddamn. | ||
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comes into thread and insta-votes me. "finally" reads the game, and now im obvious town. lynches rels knows you have to die as confirmed tonw, and im pro-mderg only chance to win is this bullshit. @NIGHT.. FLIPS HIS READ ON OBVIOUS TOWN.. KILLS MDERG. LIKE FFS... what more is needed? On January 30 2018 22:18 Koshi wrote: I already did those things. I went through mocsta and mderg. My call is both are town. I have pulled quotes that make those people town. I have gave my reasoning why Rels is mafia. If you want more give analysis yourself and I will conment. But I have done more than any of you today. And I have reached a conclusion. On January 31 2018 08:04 Koshi wrote: So yeah. I think JAT knows I am town. I also think he will vote Rels. Mocsta will most likely vote me. He convinced himself over the course of the game and needs to see my flip. mderg I don't know. Probably has the deciding vote. I was nice to mderg. But Rels has been pocketing him quite well as well. I think there is enough evidence and data in this thread. gl hf to the players.  On January 31 2018 08:46 Koshi wrote: Damerion filter probably looks the best for Mocsta. Btdt Mocsta and HF were the people he tried to sell his claim the most too. Nothing on mderg and the little reply to Rels is not enough to base anything on. On January 31 2018 09:07 Koshi wrote: Ovwrall I would be suprised if both df and damerion talked so much about their teammate Mocsta. Mderg has a low filter and it makes sense mafia doesnt talk about him if he is town. Just keep him alive and dont townclear him to the thread. Mderg on the other hand talked about them. So I think it is more likely mafia ignored and didnt talk to town!mderg to draw less attention to them. And mderg probably didnt have enough weight in the thread to ve listened to by the vets. Rels looks the worst because both the mafia didnt talk about him. And like I said before, Rels didnt prodded them enough. Rels even +1ed a good post against damerion early vut didnt take that into consideration later. Conclusion is same as before. Rels is mafia. On January 31 2018 18:33 Koshi wrote: Dnu about that lylo. I am not sure I would lynch mderg. And not sure Mocsta will as well. Goddamn I read mderg 2 times already. It is true his play is safe. Hmmm. I guess we need to meta read now... if he is more emotional as town. Because I have 0 meta in my head. On February 01 2018 09:18 Koshi wrote: I think town loses though. 50/50 I am right. And then mocsta thinks I am mafia so... JAT do something good during night. Think we will need it. On February 01 2018 16:34 Koshi wrote: I woke up knowing it is mocsta. Him lynching outside his 60/40 is indeed super bad. | ||
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im showing you facts. koshi knew I was sided with mderg koshi knew the final 3 with me + mderg is GG koshi kills mderg knowing you will side with him dont fall for this immature emotional bullshit | ||
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On February 02 2018 20:53 Koshi wrote: ]FALSE OR MISLEADING INFORMATION - JUDGEAs mafia it really doesnt make sense for me not to kill JAT. I probably killed him n1. Or killed Rels. ...... you werent in the game | ||
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Rels = Town On February 01 2018 05:15 Rels wrote: anyway I'm really tired so I'm gonna go to sleep soonish. If I'm lynched, I think mderg is scum. Like, 90% sure I think. I cannot see Mocsta being scum. I can see Koshi being scum, but if he is he's playing well now. But he can definitely tryhard for a few days as scum. What pushed me is that host WIFOM thing. I still think scum don't get replaced like that when the game cuold just have ended with a modkill. It doesn't make sense to me. I think it makes Koshi 90% town. I would be way less sure if it was Mocsta vs Koshi. mderg = not firm town, not firm scum (similar outcome to Rels...) On January 31 2018 21:13 mderg wrote: Day4 was kind of dead, Mocsta wanted kmatt over hf lynch. Not sure why he voted hf, though. Overall a decent amount of prodding, some good posts and thoughts, often missing direction, difficult to follow his thought process. The things he said were townie, the things he did a bit less so. RSoultin = Town On January 23 2018 20:57 rsoultin wrote: And anyway, sorry holyflare. I know that if you're town you really want it to be mocsta, [green]but rereading his filter his interactions with darth foley don't look like scum v scum to me.[/green[ Volatile double buss for what purpose? JAT.. this game comes down to Darthfoley.. either you agree I wanted him lynched Day2.. or you dont. On January 20 2018 23:26 Mocsta wrote: I shall illuminate my top 2 reads in further detail to connect how and more importantly why they are a scum pairing. Please refer to my 4000 word case below. Why is DF scum Read DF Filter, and dont tell me you dont see this.... + Show Spoiler + Why is HF scum Read HF Filter, and dont tell me you dont see this... + Show Spoiler + and... wait for it. Why does it work together + Show Spoiler + On January 30 2018 19:49 Koshi wrote: I understand this post now. It is quite funny. | ||
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On February 02 2018 21:00 justanothertownie wrote: at least he has a debaters chance with you.Koshi is literally doing the opposite. He was doing his best for me to lynch him. I don't see why the other final 3 would be gg. I also don't see why koshi would know that I will side with him when during the night I literally gave reasons for him to be mafia and not you. i didnt buckle on mderg.. been reading him hipster town all game. | ||
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On February 02 2018 21:38 Koshi wrote: You forgot the quote where you let JAT lynch your hipster townread and Rels called you conf mafia. And whats the scum motivation again?? | ||
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Or is it now a countdown? Its saturday. A family day. And im not going to put in further effort unless there is a chance to change the outcome. | ||
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Mdeeg in no way shape or form indicates im the best lynch in LYLO You are making connections to suit your theory | ||
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On February 03 2018 10:11 justanothertownie wrote: I struggle to believe this is true even if you believe it.I will always reevaluate if you present a convincing argument. But 12 hours from now I will leave and from then on I can only check the thread really sparsely if at all. You read koshi more town than me and now are choosing to interpret things scummy that you strongly did not prior due solely to PoE and connections to suit your narrative. Whlst its frustrating to have invested 2 weeks into this, I dont blame you for our loss. Its me who should come across townier to you. Theres not much more to be said. All your points raised prior about me are wrong and 180 from views held ALL game by multiple strong town players. Enjoy your weekend. | ||
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Writing my final post now. Im happy you are here to give honest evaluation. I was uncertain if you would read it before deadline. | ||
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Firstly, thank you for articulating why you voted me. I do appreciate the time, effort and thought behind your reasoning. I also happen to agree on much of the analysis – so much so, that I had to question my role PM! Some of these points include:
Unfortunately the conclusions drawn are false. For example:
Hence, I am of the opinion that your analysis was predetermined to condition me as scum due to Process of Evaluation rather than discerning pure scum motive. This is made clear by how you town read Koshi/Kmatt prior to jumping to my filter. I have truly run out of time to continue this further; however, Kmatt/Koshi are scum as summarised by the following: Case 1: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/529865-newbie-student-mafia-xxviii?page=77#1533 Case 2: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/529865-newbie-student-mafia-xxviii?page=84#1663 Koshi effort is purely superficial and hinges upon survival. Yes, a townie wants to survive as well; however, even in LYLO, Koshi is unable to speak of why I am scum. Further, Koshi was completely aware that I would choose mderg over himself 99 times out of 100. Shooting mderg was always the smart play. Especially after I had drawn needless attention to myself. Solving this game really can be distilled down to this question. Don’t ask yourself just about my actions as a mafia. Ask yourself. Would any mafia continue to draw attention on themselves in pivotal moments throughout this game: e.g the BTDT RB, the HF lynch, the Rels lynch. What is there to gain? If BTDT was that critical for mafia, the game wouldn’t be in the final 3. Rels was obviously going to be hammered. The only thing for mafia to gain by performing my actions is to lose the game. If you agree, the only place a vote should be placed is Koshi. ##Vote: Koshi + Show Spoiler [FOR "KOSHI" EYES ONLY] + On February 03 2018 17:47 Koshi wrote: Go get yourself a cookie. ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/Le5FurY.jpg) | ||
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It was a joke vote thing and totally stupid and that action has cost the game. I was never leaving the vote on mderg but alas See you in 10hrs i guess | ||
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Koshi sole reason to state im mafia is holyflare who never voted me Disappointing jat | ||
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For now. This is pointless. Bye. | ||
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I now think you are mafia vet ##vote:JAT | ||
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Mafia is a game of mistakes, and I do truly believe that the "mderg vote" was the straw the broke the camels back. Without the DF soft-bus heuristic in play, people stopped thinking I was auto-town. | ||
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obs /m100 is beautiful summary good followthrough damdred. for the record, i dont believe i voted you at an opportune time. i started that case to shit on damerion for a stupid case. Then i found something that I thought was scummy enough to send a vote on. Had nothing to do with wagon timings and momentum | ||
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On February 04 2018 09:19 Koshi wrote: I take all credit. ty fans. Start of LYLO was extremely humerous for me Thank you for that. | ||
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"He's quoting host replacement meta! That's next level." | ||
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Mderg did a great job i thought ISTP probably lol I do hope people get something out of the monologues. What wont make complete sense is the BTDT kill. I will explain that one in a little mlre detail as contextually its a combination of thread, qt and pm | ||
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Was there a way to convince JAT to vote koshi? Was mderg a better choice... if so, why? | ||
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"This game is fucked with the replacements Both have been town newbies Mafia deserve a hwads up. Changea everythinf.havent read game but considering givjng up" QT /M126 read game koshi is being absolutely useless at this stage so no real pressure however, i dont want to play anymore. as my top scum read, i have to go back-n-forth with him; and honestly, i dont have the energy. sorry shoot: mocsta / concede Date: 1/30/18 07:10 shoot mocsta Hence...this was posted just to start post-game chat lol.... On January 30 2018 08:18 Mocsta wrote: I cant believe how obvious this game that mderg and rels and TWAT/JAT are But then 30min later... (i.e. !10min from deadline) QT /M128 changed my mind and will shoot: mderg not sure yet if i will play the 48hrs, especially after making a couple dumb posts at end of night. dunno why im shoting mderg either. moreso, i really didnt appreciate guys takling about modkills from 4-5years ago. its not like koshi hasnt been modkileld before. etierh way, i forgot about it and so found theg ame: GoT.. and one of the players was takling about how disappointed he was with my modkill because it took the wind out of his sails... a concede is not an outcome anyone will appreciate with this much time committed. I wotn promise to fight koshi but will see where it goes. Resulting in this: Date: 1/30/18 07:47 sorry JAT Date: 1/30/18 07:47 sorry mderg tahts final.. my bad. Date: 1/30/18 07:49 sorry i know i asid final but shoot btdt this is truly final Epitomy of: #YOLO However, now I had to live with this crap in my filter.... QT /M130 ahhh i can use the BTDT kill as a trap for koshi hes not caught up with the game,and should have shot JAT.. but the QT indicates BTDT is teh medic. thats interesting WIFOM.. perhaps those dumb early-concede posts can come in handy. thats literally it... | ||
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Its more important to convince others of your reads, than to have correct reads You know this rayn.. ##vote: rayn | ||
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/m23 is a shame. his reads were good. if only he shared the more. | ||
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On February 04 2018 13:45 darthfoley wrote: Convincing others of your reads when they're shit doesn't do anything but lose. Correct reads are always more important unless your primary goal is to just be an alpha. Damdred called us out D1 and never really backed off of it, even in the obs QT iirc. The optimal answer is a blend of the two. Being right or being heard bkth dont lead to victory | ||
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Convincing others of reads is nothing to do with being an alpha Yes they can intersect but it does not have to be a mutual relationship. I think you are confusing convincing others with being loud. Typically this is a maturity thing | ||
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Indulge me. Regardless of whether you would final 3 with koshi and JAT.. thats the situation. How would you go about the cycle as mafia. | ||
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You were suspicious all game | ||
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On February 04 2018 18:41 rsoultin wrote: As per monologues lol, I was mostly concerned that mderg wouldnt be present for the 48hrs and then land an unpredictable last minute vote.Yeah honestly I don't know. I think your last three would be tough to beat in almost any combo, but the one you picked was probably the least likely to work. So true lesson is, I should have fought harder to avoid the Rels mislynch. I needed Rels in the final 3. | ||
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Even more unfortunate is that it appears some left as they were not getting any enjoyment. I do not know what the solution is; nor, what it could entail. Is this the majority of what is left with TL-Mafia? | ||
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not because they arent capable of playing well, but because there is no fundamental understanding of the constraints a working person has to deal with. Maybe I should get my mafia fix by reading old games instead! Less time-intensive at the very least. | ||
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On February 04 2018 20:31 rsoultin wrote: No idea what it is. I havent played since end of 2013.-pokes Mocsta- I want to see your townplay though :/ I would have been classed as paranoid and overly convoluted back then. I hope that has evolved somewhat now. | ||
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So what would you have done differently when placed in the final-3 situation of confirmed town JAT, and town-lean Koshi? | ||
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