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On February 08 2017 01:16 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2017 01:10 RtaniSoul wrote:
Also, Grack, why am I mafia? You've created a scenario in which I could be a spy with Vivax based on how the votes went but there's no actual arguments for why I'm mafia in there. Yea explain why I put resistance sharkie instead of spy rtanisoul into a team for starters, and then proceed to argue my ass off with them all day.
Stop piggybacking my arguments, it's unnerving
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On February 08 2017 01:10 RtaniSoul wrote:
Also, Grack, why am I mafia? You've created a scenario in which I could be a spy with Vivax based on how the votes went but there's no actual arguments for why I'm mafia in there.
It just makes sense for me as a plausible explanation for the vote count on the first mission.
My 2 premises I got from reading through the thread this morning were that sharkie is town and Silver is town.
From there I need Vivax to be mafia because this mission passed. But the first mission is very unlikely to go through if the scum team is Vivax + 2 people who aren't being town read (Say Sicklucker/EC). Things would make a lot more sense for me if the team was You/Vivax, because you both could reasonably approve the mission as scum knowing that it won't cost you the game in this scenario.
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On February 08 2017 01:07 Superbia wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2017 01:06 RtaniSoul wrote:On February 08 2017 01:05 Superbia wrote:On February 08 2017 01:04 RtaniSoul wrote:
I can't help but townread Grack as there's no spy motivation for breaking the chain circlejerk vivax and sharkie had going on me and sharkie.
Guess that makes Vivax the spy then. Cool beans. Then one between and EC has to be a spy. Since I feel EC has generally been more appeasing and contributed more to the thread, it clearly means you're the townie. Also, why is one of you two spy if Vivax is? Else you can't explain vote #4.
Hmm you're gonna need to put your logic down here. Think you end up assuming that silver is scum in this scenario? Unless we're getting into some really crazy ideas.
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On February 08 2017 01:17 RtaniSoul wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2017 01:16 Vivax wrote:On February 08 2017 01:10 RtaniSoul wrote:
Also, Grack, why am I mafia? You've created a scenario in which I could be a spy with Vivax based on how the votes went but there's no actual arguments for why I'm mafia in there. Yea explain why I put resistance sharkie instead of spy rtanisoul into a team for starters, and then proceed to argue my ass off with them all day. Stop piggybacking my arguments, it's unnerving
I don't care it doesn't make sense as much to me as it does to you.
Grack needs to bleed explanations now
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On February 08 2017 01:22 emperorchampion wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2017 01:07 Superbia wrote:On February 08 2017 01:06 RtaniSoul wrote:On February 08 2017 01:05 Superbia wrote:On February 08 2017 01:04 RtaniSoul wrote:
I can't help but townread Grack as there's no spy motivation for breaking the chain circlejerk vivax and sharkie had going on me and sharkie.
Guess that makes Vivax the spy then. Cool beans. Then one between and EC has to be a spy. Since I feel EC has generally been more appeasing and contributed more to the thread, it clearly means you're the townie. Also, why is one of you two spy if Vivax is? Else you can't explain vote #4. Hmm you're gonna need to put your logic down here. Think you end up assuming that silver is scum in this scenario? Unless we're getting into some really crazy ideas.
In my world one of the original three in the team are always scum.
A less likely alternative is that you are scum and two of your team mates fucked up, or felt like they -HAD- to go with the flow. In that world vivax is always mafia with you.
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On February 08 2017 01:20 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2017 01:10 RtaniSoul wrote:
Also, Grack, why am I mafia? You've created a scenario in which I could be a spy with Vivax based on how the votes went but there's no actual arguments for why I'm mafia in there. It just makes sense for me as a plausible explanation for the vote count on the first mission. My 2 premises I got from reading through the thread this morning were that sharkie is town and Silver is town. From there I need Vivax to be mafia because this mission passed. But the first mission is very unlikely to go through if the scum team is Vivax + 2 people who aren't being town read (Say Sicklucker/EC). Things would make a lot more sense for me if the team was You/Vivax, because you both could reasonably approve the mission as scum knowing that it won't cost you the game in this scenario.
What I don't understand is that I've been saying pretty much the same as sharkie as well as a lot of other things, yet you don't townread me. Why?
I do follow your logic on why it doesn't make sense for a spy to vote for the first one if it was clean unless they have a good presence. One explanation I see is that if it didn't go through, silver would get a mission and it'd auto pass and silver's reads did not include scum for his choices. Another would be that at least this way they can get cred for voting for a passed mission.
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I'm just laying down the LAW on anyone who DARES to step outside my world. :D
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On February 08 2017 01:26 Superbia wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2017 01:22 emperorchampion wrote:On February 08 2017 01:07 Superbia wrote:On February 08 2017 01:06 RtaniSoul wrote:On February 08 2017 01:05 Superbia wrote:On February 08 2017 01:04 RtaniSoul wrote:
I can't help but townread Grack as there's no spy motivation for breaking the chain circlejerk vivax and sharkie had going on me and sharkie.
Guess that makes Vivax the spy then. Cool beans. Then one between and EC has to be a spy. Since I feel EC has generally been more appeasing and contributed more to the thread, it clearly means you're the townie. Also, why is one of you two spy if Vivax is? Else you can't explain vote #4. Hmm you're gonna need to put your logic down here. Think you end up assuming that silver is scum in this scenario? Unless we're getting into some really crazy ideas. In my world one of the original three in the team are always scum. A less likely alternative is that you are scum and two of your team mates fucked up, or felt like they -HAD- to go with the flow. In that world vivax is always mafia with you.
OK so pretty sure that vivax and I are never team mates then lol
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On February 08 2017 01:26 RtaniSoul wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2017 01:20 Grackaroni wrote:On February 08 2017 01:10 RtaniSoul wrote:
Also, Grack, why am I mafia? You've created a scenario in which I could be a spy with Vivax based on how the votes went but there's no actual arguments for why I'm mafia in there. It just makes sense for me as a plausible explanation for the vote count on the first mission. My 2 premises I got from reading through the thread this morning were that sharkie is town and Silver is town. From there I need Vivax to be mafia because this mission passed. But the first mission is very unlikely to go through if the scum team is Vivax + 2 people who aren't being town read (Say Sicklucker/EC). Things would make a lot more sense for me if the team was You/Vivax, because you both could reasonably approve the mission as scum knowing that it won't cost you the game in this scenario. What I don't understand is that I've been saying pretty much the same as sharkie as well as a lot of other things, yet you don't townread me. Why? I do follow your logic on why it doesn't make sense for a spy to vote for the first one if it was clean unless they have a good presence. One explanation I see is that if it didn't go through, silver would get a mission and it'd auto pass and silver's reads did not include scum for his choices. Another would be that at least this way they can get cred for voting for a passed mission.
I'm town reading sharkie because I think he's done a few things that I wouldn't except to see out of a new mafia player. That's obviously not the case for you.
The bold is actually really interesting though because I remember Silver had you as his top town read. So that's actually possible. In this case scum! Vivax would still have to have been unable to add any of his teammates to the team though.
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On February 08 2017 01:32 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2017 01:26 RtaniSoul wrote:On February 08 2017 01:20 Grackaroni wrote:On February 08 2017 01:10 RtaniSoul wrote:
Also, Grack, why am I mafia? You've created a scenario in which I could be a spy with Vivax based on how the votes went but there's no actual arguments for why I'm mafia in there. It just makes sense for me as a plausible explanation for the vote count on the first mission. My 2 premises I got from reading through the thread this morning were that sharkie is town and Silver is town. From there I need Vivax to be mafia because this mission passed. But the first mission is very unlikely to go through if the scum team is Vivax + 2 people who aren't being town read (Say Sicklucker/EC). Things would make a lot more sense for me if the team was You/Vivax, because you both could reasonably approve the mission as scum knowing that it won't cost you the game in this scenario. What I don't understand is that I've been saying pretty much the same as sharkie as well as a lot of other things, yet you don't townread me. Why? I do follow your logic on why it doesn't make sense for a spy to vote for the first one if it was clean unless they have a good presence. One explanation I see is that if it didn't go through, silver would get a mission and it'd auto pass and silver's reads did not include scum for his choices. Another would be that at least this way they can get cred for voting for a passed mission. I'm town reading sharkie because I think he's done a few things that I wouldn't except to see out of a new mafia player. That's obviously not the case for you. The bold is actually really interesting though because I remember Silver had you as his top town read. So that's actually possible. In this case scum! Vivax would still have to have been unable to add any of his teammates to the team though.
Wait, isn't that asking (as a spy) to have two failed missions? Since the next person in line is going to pick an all resistance team as well. I think Vivax would just add himself instead of sharkie, that team would have likely passed. Pretty sure that's a better option unless in this world vivax is going for some solo carry strat with sl/tw as his team mates.
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On February 08 2017 01:41 emperorchampion wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2017 01:32 Grackaroni wrote:On February 08 2017 01:26 RtaniSoul wrote:On February 08 2017 01:20 Grackaroni wrote:On February 08 2017 01:10 RtaniSoul wrote:
Also, Grack, why am I mafia? You've created a scenario in which I could be a spy with Vivax based on how the votes went but there's no actual arguments for why I'm mafia in there. It just makes sense for me as a plausible explanation for the vote count on the first mission. My 2 premises I got from reading through the thread this morning were that sharkie is town and Silver is town. From there I need Vivax to be mafia because this mission passed. But the first mission is very unlikely to go through if the scum team is Vivax + 2 people who aren't being town read (Say Sicklucker/EC). Things would make a lot more sense for me if the team was You/Vivax, because you both could reasonably approve the mission as scum knowing that it won't cost you the game in this scenario. What I don't understand is that I've been saying pretty much the same as sharkie as well as a lot of other things, yet you don't townread me. Why? I do follow your logic on why it doesn't make sense for a spy to vote for the first one if it was clean unless they have a good presence. One explanation I see is that if it didn't go through, silver would get a mission and it'd auto pass and silver's reads did not include scum for his choices. Another would be that at least this way they can get cred for voting for a passed mission. I'm town reading sharkie because I think he's done a few things that I wouldn't except to see out of a new mafia player. That's obviously not the case for you. The bold is actually really interesting though because I remember Silver had you as his top town read. So that's actually possible. In this case scum! Vivax would still have to have been unable to add any of his teammates to the team though. Wait, isn't that asking (as a spy) to have two failed missions? Since the next person in line is going to pick an all resistance team as well. I think Vivax would just add himself instead of sharkie, that team would have likely passed. Pretty sure that's a better option unless in this world vivax is going for some solo carry strat with sl/tw as his team mates.
I think Vivax wouldn't send himself because he made such a big deal out of how bad it was that everyone else was adding themselves to their teams.
The only thing that worries me right now is that I've never seen what Silverika's scum play looks like.
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On February 08 2017 01:45 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2017 01:41 emperorchampion wrote:On February 08 2017 01:32 Grackaroni wrote:On February 08 2017 01:26 RtaniSoul wrote:On February 08 2017 01:20 Grackaroni wrote:On February 08 2017 01:10 RtaniSoul wrote:
Also, Grack, why am I mafia? You've created a scenario in which I could be a spy with Vivax based on how the votes went but there's no actual arguments for why I'm mafia in there. It just makes sense for me as a plausible explanation for the vote count on the first mission. My 2 premises I got from reading through the thread this morning were that sharkie is town and Silver is town. From there I need Vivax to be mafia because this mission passed. But the first mission is very unlikely to go through if the scum team is Vivax + 2 people who aren't being town read (Say Sicklucker/EC). Things would make a lot more sense for me if the team was You/Vivax, because you both could reasonably approve the mission as scum knowing that it won't cost you the game in this scenario. What I don't understand is that I've been saying pretty much the same as sharkie as well as a lot of other things, yet you don't townread me. Why? I do follow your logic on why it doesn't make sense for a spy to vote for the first one if it was clean unless they have a good presence. One explanation I see is that if it didn't go through, silver would get a mission and it'd auto pass and silver's reads did not include scum for his choices. Another would be that at least this way they can get cred for voting for a passed mission. I'm town reading sharkie because I think he's done a few things that I wouldn't except to see out of a new mafia player. That's obviously not the case for you. The bold is actually really interesting though because I remember Silver had you as his top town read. So that's actually possible. In this case scum! Vivax would still have to have been unable to add any of his teammates to the team though. Wait, isn't that asking (as a spy) to have two failed missions? Since the next person in line is going to pick an all resistance team as well. I think Vivax would just add himself instead of sharkie, that team would have likely passed. Pretty sure that's a better option unless in this world vivax is going for some solo carry strat with sl/tw as his team mates. I think Vivax wouldn't send himself because he made such a big deal out of how bad it was that everyone else was adding themselves to their teams. The only thing that worries me right now is that I've never seen what Silverika's scum play looks like.
if you want games to scum games of us you can jsut ask you know
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On February 08 2017 01:45 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2017 01:41 emperorchampion wrote:On February 08 2017 01:32 Grackaroni wrote:On February 08 2017 01:26 RtaniSoul wrote:On February 08 2017 01:20 Grackaroni wrote:On February 08 2017 01:10 RtaniSoul wrote:
Also, Grack, why am I mafia? You've created a scenario in which I could be a spy with Vivax based on how the votes went but there's no actual arguments for why I'm mafia in there. It just makes sense for me as a plausible explanation for the vote count on the first mission. My 2 premises I got from reading through the thread this morning were that sharkie is town and Silver is town. From there I need Vivax to be mafia because this mission passed. But the first mission is very unlikely to go through if the scum team is Vivax + 2 people who aren't being town read (Say Sicklucker/EC). Things would make a lot more sense for me if the team was You/Vivax, because you both could reasonably approve the mission as scum knowing that it won't cost you the game in this scenario. What I don't understand is that I've been saying pretty much the same as sharkie as well as a lot of other things, yet you don't townread me. Why? I do follow your logic on why it doesn't make sense for a spy to vote for the first one if it was clean unless they have a good presence. One explanation I see is that if it didn't go through, silver would get a mission and it'd auto pass and silver's reads did not include scum for his choices. Another would be that at least this way they can get cred for voting for a passed mission. I'm town reading sharkie because I think he's done a few things that I wouldn't except to see out of a new mafia player. That's obviously not the case for you. The bold is actually really interesting though because I remember Silver had you as his top town read. So that's actually possible. In this case scum! Vivax would still have to have been unable to add any of his teammates to the team though. Wait, isn't that asking (as a spy) to have two failed missions? Since the next person in line is going to pick an all resistance team as well. I think Vivax would just add himself instead of sharkie, that team would have likely passed. Pretty sure that's a better option unless in this world vivax is going for some solo carry strat with sl/tw as his team mates. I think Vivax wouldn't send himself because he made such a big deal out of how bad it was that everyone else was adding themselves to their teams. The only thing that worries me right now is that I've never seen what Silverika's scum play looks like.
Mmm that's a fair point, I would have voted yay anyways though. I think a few people asked to put him in.
I think the only people's scum games that I have seen are yours and sl's, and last time you had me hook, line and sinker...
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On February 08 2017 00:31 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2017 00:29 Silverika wrote:On February 08 2017 00:06 sharkie wrote:On February 07 2017 23:58 Silverika wrote:On February 07 2017 23:54 sharkie wrote:On February 07 2017 23:54 Silverika wrote:On February 07 2017 23:49 RtaniSoul wrote:On February 07 2017 23:45 Silverika wrote:
in short (ika here):
sharkie voting no when the only person he suspects on this team is vivax makes no sense form a towns POV. a town!sharkie should of voted yes on this to confirm vivax as scum/town (becasue scum!vivax would be forced to sabbo this or next mission where as twon!viv with town!shrakie is auto win)
so basically if this mission is sabboed, sharkie is the spy who did it You people keep using this logic and it doesn't work because it presumes that people have 100% townreads on the other people in the mission AND it presumes that failing a mission to identify a spy is worth it. Even if he was 100% on both you and grack, look at it from his situation. If vivax is mafia, he learns that Vivax is mafia whilst the rest of the thread (given thread sentiment) all believe HE is the spy. He knows Vivax is mafia but it doesn't help him in the slightest because he cannot convince the rest of the game of it. A mission is failed and a townie is left out of any further consideration, a disastrous result. you start with false premises and you end with wrong conclusions. grack town read vivax and has a record of it and vice versa so FMPOV and many other IMO they would have to argue one of two cases a) both are scum b) one is fooling the other thats only in the scum!vivax world cus thats seems to be your angle What do you mean grack "has a record of it"? reading vivax right Please tell me you have more things to back you up except past games... Because that is the worst proof you can have for social deduction games... Also what is wifom? If you've been reading our posts, we don't think grack would of passed the mission as a spy because they could of blamed you for it easily. Vivax's play and behavior this game does not makes sense coming from scum which we've explained in detail and was the reason we sent him on the mission. The Vivax/Grack towread theory is very simple. Unless they are on the same team, their townread of each other is worth noting because they have a history of being able to read each other correctly. Is it the only reason we would use to townread either of them? Absolutely not. But it does play a small factor. ~SilverWolf77 Passing the first mission does not make sense for sharkie as a spy either, using that same logic of yours...
I am still waiting on a counter for this one, silver...
You keep saying vivax is resistance because if he were a spy he would be playing sub-optimally. But in the same breath you accuse me of being a spy but not considering that if I were one I acted sub-optimally on the first mission by not failing it.
Note please that I am not using this argument to defend myself. It would be very hypocritical of me to do that. All I am saying is that you can't apply your logic on one case but refuse to do it on the other one. That is a very inconsistent line of thinking...
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On February 08 2017 00:29 emperorchampion wrote:
@ sharkie: who is scum for you right now?
At the moment?
You or TL/vivax/SL
You got better in my standing but I still cannot shake that uneasy feeling from your team nomination...
Also Super, welcome back to the game I guess?
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sl is 90% scum for me at this point. his filter is mostly him defending himself, "gathering reactions" + Show Spoiler +and not doing anything with them
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On February 08 2017 02:52 Tumblewood wrote:sl is 90% scum for me at this point. his filter is mostly him defending himself, "gathering reactions" + Show Spoiler +and not doing anything with them and not going on the offensive on people. town!sl answers to no man. would not nominate him for any mission ever, prob not even worth it if he tries
You aren't much better if at all...
I know it's many pages ago but please explain your decision of yaying this team
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Thanks Tumble, I was really waffling on that one.
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On February 08 2017 02:35 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2017 00:31 sharkie wrote:On February 08 2017 00:29 Silverika wrote:On February 08 2017 00:06 sharkie wrote:On February 07 2017 23:58 Silverika wrote:On February 07 2017 23:54 sharkie wrote:On February 07 2017 23:54 Silverika wrote:On February 07 2017 23:49 RtaniSoul wrote:On February 07 2017 23:45 Silverika wrote:
in short (ika here):
sharkie voting no when the only person he suspects on this team is vivax makes no sense form a towns POV. a town!sharkie should of voted yes on this to confirm vivax as scum/town (becasue scum!vivax would be forced to sabbo this or next mission where as twon!viv with town!shrakie is auto win)
so basically if this mission is sabboed, sharkie is the spy who did it You people keep using this logic and it doesn't work because it presumes that people have 100% townreads on the other people in the mission AND it presumes that failing a mission to identify a spy is worth it. Even if he was 100% on both you and grack, look at it from his situation. If vivax is mafia, he learns that Vivax is mafia whilst the rest of the thread (given thread sentiment) all believe HE is the spy. He knows Vivax is mafia but it doesn't help him in the slightest because he cannot convince the rest of the game of it. A mission is failed and a townie is left out of any further consideration, a disastrous result. you start with false premises and you end with wrong conclusions. grack town read vivax and has a record of it and vice versa so FMPOV and many other IMO they would have to argue one of two cases a) both are scum b) one is fooling the other thats only in the scum!vivax world cus thats seems to be your angle What do you mean grack "has a record of it"? reading vivax right Please tell me you have more things to back you up except past games... Because that is the worst proof you can have for social deduction games... Also what is wifom? If you've been reading our posts, we don't think grack would of passed the mission as a spy because they could of blamed you for it easily. Vivax's play and behavior this game does not makes sense coming from scum which we've explained in detail and was the reason we sent him on the mission. The Vivax/Grack towread theory is very simple. Unless they are on the same team, their townread of each other is worth noting because they have a history of being able to read each other correctly. Is it the only reason we would use to townread either of them? Absolutely not. But it does play a small factor. ~SilverWolf77 Passing the first mission does not make sense for sharkie as a spy either, using that same logic of yours... I am still waiting on a counter for this one, silver... You keep saying vivax is resistance because if he were a spy he would be playing sub-optimally. But in the same breath you accuse me of being a spy but not considering that if I were one I acted sub-optimally on the first mission by not failing it. Note please that I am not using this argument to defend myself. It would be very hypocritical of me to do that. All I am saying is that you can't apply your logic on one case but refuse to do it on the other one. That is a very inconsistent line of thinking...
I feel like you are misreading silvers post in question here. You can't really ask this line of question either without a indirect or direct use of it becoming a defense of yourself.
She not once has said that vivax as spy is playing suboptimal. Now I might be misreading the context in witch case you can clarify to me because she is busy right now.
If you want my personal take, vivax!spy not sending himself on first mission while having a mass of town cred is suboptimal.
You not failing the first mission has a two way street cus of resistance theory, many argue to sabbo/not sabbo first mission as spy for diffrent reasons. It's more of a belief system of what you think is right at that point.
If your point still stands I'll let her respond on the issue but I feel like you are trying to aregue a smatical thing instead of the direct point. Because both things being applied are diffrent in nature
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Also I'm mobile so ifnit doesn't make sense I'll explain when I am home
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EPT
