On February 07 2017 23:45 Silverika wrote: in short (ika here):
sharkie voting no when the only person he suspects on this team is vivax makes no sense form a towns POV. a town!sharkie should of voted yes on this to confirm vivax as scum/town (becasue scum!vivax would be forced to sabbo this or next mission where as twon!viv with town!shrakie is auto win)
so basically if this mission is sabboed, sharkie is the spy who did it
You people keep using this logic and it doesn't work because it presumes that people have 100% townreads on the other people in the mission AND it presumes that failing a mission to identify a spy is worth it.
Even if he was 100% on both you and grack, look at it from his situation. If vivax is mafia, he learns that Vivax is mafia whilst the rest of the thread (given thread sentiment) all believe HE is the spy. He knows Vivax is mafia but it doesn't help him in the slightest because he cannot convince the rest of the game of it. A mission is failed and a townie is left out of any further consideration, a disastrous result.
you start with false premises and you end with wrong conclusions.
grack town read vivax and has a record of it and vice versa
so FMPOV and many other IMO they would have to argue one of two cases
a) both are scum b) one is fooling the other
thats only in the scum!vivax world cus thats seems to be your angle
What do you mean grack "has a record of it"?
reading vivax right
Please tell me you have more things to back you up except past games... Because that is the worst proof you can have for social deduction games... Also what is wifom?
I like my reads clear cut as the game progresses, and not sit back at square one when a mission passes/fails and that's what happens when you follow the scenarios rtaniSoul are suggesting. And we don't want to be at square one and have no clue who's spy/res.
I knew I would scumread sharkie if the mission failed, a Grack/Swika spy would probably have known that and failed it, and I will scumread sharkie if this one fails.
On February 07 2017 23:45 Silverika wrote: in short (ika here):
sharkie voting no when the only person he suspects on this team is vivax makes no sense form a towns POV. a town!sharkie should of voted yes on this to confirm vivax as scum/town (becasue scum!vivax would be forced to sabbo this or next mission where as twon!viv with town!shrakie is auto win)
so basically if this mission is sabboed, sharkie is the spy who did it
You people keep using this logic and it doesn't work because it presumes that people have 100% townreads on the other people in the mission AND it presumes that failing a mission to identify a spy is worth it.
Even if he was 100% on both you and grack, look at it from his situation. If vivax is mafia, he learns that Vivax is mafia whilst the rest of the thread (given thread sentiment) all believe HE is the spy. He knows Vivax is mafia but it doesn't help him in the slightest because he cannot convince the rest of the game of it. A mission is failed and a townie is left out of any further consideration, a disastrous result.
you start with false premises and you end with wrong conclusions.
grack town read vivax and has a record of it and vice versa
so FMPOV and many other IMO they would have to argue one of two cases
a) both are scum b) one is fooling the other
thats only in the scum!vivax world cus thats seems to be your angle
Obviously, B is the case. I have a strong townread on Sharkie and you believe I'm wrong or scum. We're exactly the same in that regard as your beloved grack and vivax.
then why are you not trying to persuade grack that he is wrong as well?
can you explain why scum!vivax who was widly town read at the time of his nomination removed himself?
i feel like you missing the objective things that he has done that if he is spy he is argubly playing in a suboptimal manner
So vivax playing in a suboptimal manner is ridiculous but rt and me playing in a suboptimal manner is logical?
Vivax and you have that in common. You assume the best of spies when it suits you but other times spies are the dumbest players ever...
On February 07 2017 23:45 Silverika wrote: in short (ika here):
sharkie voting no when the only person he suspects on this team is vivax makes no sense form a towns POV. a town!sharkie should of voted yes on this to confirm vivax as scum/town (becasue scum!vivax would be forced to sabbo this or next mission where as twon!viv with town!shrakie is auto win)
so basically if this mission is sabboed, sharkie is the spy who did it
You people keep using this logic and it doesn't work because it presumes that people have 100% townreads on the other people in the mission AND it presumes that failing a mission to identify a spy is worth it.
Even if he was 100% on both you and grack, look at it from his situation. If vivax is mafia, he learns that Vivax is mafia whilst the rest of the thread (given thread sentiment) all believe HE is the spy. He knows Vivax is mafia but it doesn't help him in the slightest because he cannot convince the rest of the game of it. A mission is failed and a townie is left out of any further consideration, a disastrous result.
you start with false premises and you end with wrong conclusions.
grack town read vivax and has a record of it and vice versa
so FMPOV and many other IMO they would have to argue one of two cases
a) both are scum b) one is fooling the other
thats only in the scum!vivax world cus thats seems to be your angle
What do you mean grack "has a record of it"?
reading vivax right
Please tell me you have more things to back you up except past games... Because that is the worst proof you can have for social deduction games... Also what is wifom?
On February 08 2017 00:07 Vivax wrote: I like my reads clear cut as the game progresses, and not sit back at square one when a mission passes/fails and that's what happens when you follow the scenarios rtaniSoul are suggesting. And we don't want to be at square one and have no clue who's spy/res.
I knew I would scumread sharkie if the mission failed, a Grack/Swika spy would probably have known that and failed it, and I will scumread sharkie if this one fails.
Just for the record you would have accused me if the three mab team had failed too. So your point is worth nothing.
On February 07 2017 23:45 Silverika wrote: in short (ika here):
sharkie voting no when the only person he suspects on this team is vivax makes no sense form a towns POV. a town!sharkie should of voted yes on this to confirm vivax as scum/town (becasue scum!vivax would be forced to sabbo this or next mission where as twon!viv with town!shrakie is auto win)
so basically if this mission is sabboed, sharkie is the spy who did it
You people keep using this logic and it doesn't work because it presumes that people have 100% townreads on the other people in the mission AND it presumes that failing a mission to identify a spy is worth it.
Even if he was 100% on both you and grack, look at it from his situation. If vivax is mafia, he learns that Vivax is mafia whilst the rest of the thread (given thread sentiment) all believe HE is the spy. He knows Vivax is mafia but it doesn't help him in the slightest because he cannot convince the rest of the game of it. A mission is failed and a townie is left out of any further consideration, a disastrous result.
you start with false premises and you end with wrong conclusions.
grack town read vivax and has a record of it and vice versa
so FMPOV and many other IMO they would have to argue one of two cases
a) both are scum b) one is fooling the other
thats only in the scum!vivax world cus thats seems to be your angle
What do you mean grack "has a record of it"?
reading vivax right
Please tell me you have more things to back you up except past games... Because that is the worst proof you can have for social deduction games... Also what is wifom?
for someone who never played mafia you really seem to be more aware of it then you are leading on
On February 07 2017 19:48 Superbia wrote: Welp I like grack as the mafia.
Hmm I looked into grack but I'm not sure.
Look at these posts:
On February 05 2017 15:48 Grackaroni wrote: Ok I might be slightly stupid, but I swear this mission is going to fail. This game is way too easy right now. And the spy isn't Vivax. It's one of Silver/sharkie.
On February 07 2017 03:13 Grackaroni wrote: my team makes sense to me. I'm pretty sure the next mission is going to fail.
Silverika is too indignant to be scum.
Vivax is actually coming up with a lot of thought out scum pairings without trying too hard to be town read. Plus he said right off the bat that Silver/I aren't scum, which is a good thing from my perspective.
Tumblewood/Artanis are both like "I think Grack could definitely be scum here. Full steam ahead guys!" ##Accept. Plus Tumblewood is super blendy while Rtanisoul seems to mainly be trying to buddy Silver.
Everyone else seems to be showing at least some level of skepticism over the team.
I think we are (were) at similar points in this game.
Another issue with grack as scum for me, is that when I look at sl's play it completely turned at mission 1. I'm thinking through if sl passes mission 1 for a town read on either sharkie/silver. If you look at all the reasons that he fails attempt 3 vs attempt 4: it's grack not on the team, leader not on the team, and not silver nominating VS silver on the team anyways, sharkie on the team, and leader still not on team. I don't see how town sl votes down my team by votes up vivax's team, so sl as scum conditions my read on grack as well.
Also given this:
On February 04 2017 01:21 Grackaroni wrote: Right now I see the game in terms of 3 groups (listed in no particular order): The definite town: Grackaroni Silverika The townie feels Artanisoul Vivax Sharkie
The people without townie feels Emperorchampion
The one of these two is scum group Tumblewood Superbia The definite scum Sicklucker
I still think at least one of Super/Tumble will be red.
Don't see grack/sl, putting his team mate at the bottom, don't think scum usually does that. Especially since I think that grack has pretty easy out for a town read on sl earlier.
Pretty sure given the interactions silver/sl is not a team. Maybe I'm just mega tunneled but I'm also running out of places to look, I'm in an sl/sharkie world right now.
I dunno, I don't have the same issue of grack/sl not being a team. SL has played an incredibly low-effort game and pretty much everyone and their mom has scumread him. It'd be difficult for Grack to get any mission in with SL on it so there's not much harm done by bussing him. Plus, if thread sentiment changes, he can change his position too anyway.
I'm not sure where you're going with the mission 3/4 thing regarding SL. Could you explain that a bit further?
On February 07 2017 20:38 Vivax wrote: Can't be in a sharkie world without rtanisoul in it tbh.
If this fails I'm ride or die sharkie + rtanisoul
I'm glad we got tunnelvivax back.
Yeah that's true regarding grack / sl.
I'll explain what I was thinking:
Attempt 3 (team I proposed) the issues that sl was raising were: - the leader not on the team - no grack on the team - silver on the team (strong (est) scum read from super)
Some things about attempt 4 (vivax's team): - leader not on team - silver on team - sharkie on team (also strong scum read from super)
His whole point for yay voting vivax's team was that he didn't want silver's team to be auto-picked since it was his strongest scum read. That + I suppose grack is on the team now, his strongest town read. But I don't see the logic (maybe sl will help here) with voting a team with your strongest scum read versus let that person pick the team. Actually the had his two strongest scum reads at that time (as I recall). Like this team for him should be auto-fail, so I can't see why he would approve it. #justslthings
Scum motivation that I see is to pass a team with at least 1 scum on it knowing he's ostracized in any case if team mate decides to fail; and in the present case he can give an easy town read to any of the members on the team (i.e., silver or sharkie who he was previously scum reading) cause they are now part of a team that succeeded in passing a mission.
On February 07 2017 23:45 Silverika wrote: in short (ika here):
sharkie voting no when the only person he suspects on this team is vivax makes no sense form a towns POV. a town!sharkie should of voted yes on this to confirm vivax as scum/town (becasue scum!vivax would be forced to sabbo this or next mission where as twon!viv with town!shrakie is auto win)
so basically if this mission is sabboed, sharkie is the spy who did it
You people keep using this logic and it doesn't work because it presumes that people have 100% townreads on the other people in the mission AND it presumes that failing a mission to identify a spy is worth it.
Even if he was 100% on both you and grack, look at it from his situation. If vivax is mafia, he learns that Vivax is mafia whilst the rest of the thread (given thread sentiment) all believe HE is the spy. He knows Vivax is mafia but it doesn't help him in the slightest because he cannot convince the rest of the game of it. A mission is failed and a townie is left out of any further consideration, a disastrous result.
you start with false premises and you end with wrong conclusions.
grack town read vivax and has a record of it and vice versa
so FMPOV and many other IMO they would have to argue one of two cases
a) both are scum b) one is fooling the other
thats only in the scum!vivax world cus thats seems to be your angle
What do you mean grack "has a record of it"?
reading vivax right
Please tell me you have more things to back you up except past games... Because that is the worst proof you can have for social deduction games... Also what is wifom?
If you've been reading our posts, we don't think grack would of passed the mission as a spy because they could of blamed you for it easily.
Vivax's play and behavior this game does not makes sense coming from scum which we've explained in detail and was the reason we sent him on the mission.
The Vivax/Grack towread theory is very simple. Unless they are on the same team, their townread of each other is worth noting because they have a history of being able to read each other correctly. Is it the only reason we would use to townread either of them? Absolutely not. But it does play a small factor.
On February 07 2017 23:45 Silverika wrote: in short (ika here):
sharkie voting no when the only person he suspects on this team is vivax makes no sense form a towns POV. a town!sharkie should of voted yes on this to confirm vivax as scum/town (becasue scum!vivax would be forced to sabbo this or next mission where as twon!viv with town!shrakie is auto win)
so basically if this mission is sabboed, sharkie is the spy who did it
You people keep using this logic and it doesn't work because it presumes that people have 100% townreads on the other people in the mission AND it presumes that failing a mission to identify a spy is worth it.
Even if he was 100% on both you and grack, look at it from his situation. If vivax is mafia, he learns that Vivax is mafia whilst the rest of the thread (given thread sentiment) all believe HE is the spy. He knows Vivax is mafia but it doesn't help him in the slightest because he cannot convince the rest of the game of it. A mission is failed and a townie is left out of any further consideration, a disastrous result.
you start with false premises and you end with wrong conclusions.
grack town read vivax and has a record of it and vice versa
so FMPOV and many other IMO they would have to argue one of two cases
a) both are scum b) one is fooling the other
thats only in the scum!vivax world cus thats seems to be your angle
What do you mean grack "has a record of it"?
reading vivax right
Please tell me you have more things to back you up except past games... Because that is the worst proof you can have for social deduction games... Also what is wifom?
If you've been reading our posts, we don't think grack would of passed the mission as a spy because they could of blamed you for it easily.
Vivax's play and behavior this game does not makes sense coming from scum which we've explained in detail and was the reason we sent him on the mission.
The Vivax/Grack towread theory is very simple. Unless they are on the same team, their townread of each other is worth noting because they have a history of being able to read each other correctly. Is it the only reason we would use to townread either of them? Absolutely not. But it does play a small factor.
On February 07 2017 23:45 Silverika wrote: in short (ika here):
sharkie voting no when the only person he suspects on this team is vivax makes no sense form a towns POV. a town!sharkie should of voted yes on this to confirm vivax as scum/town (becasue scum!vivax would be forced to sabbo this or next mission where as twon!viv with town!shrakie is auto win)
so basically if this mission is sabboed, sharkie is the spy who did it
You people keep using this logic and it doesn't work because it presumes that people have 100% townreads on the other people in the mission AND it presumes that failing a mission to identify a spy is worth it.
Even if he was 100% on both you and grack, look at it from his situation. If vivax is mafia, he learns that Vivax is mafia whilst the rest of the thread (given thread sentiment) all believe HE is the spy. He knows Vivax is mafia but it doesn't help him in the slightest because he cannot convince the rest of the game of it. A mission is failed and a townie is left out of any further consideration, a disastrous result.
you start with false premises and you end with wrong conclusions.
grack town read vivax and has a record of it and vice versa
so FMPOV and many other IMO they would have to argue one of two cases
a) both are scum b) one is fooling the other
thats only in the scum!vivax world cus thats seems to be your angle
What do you mean grack "has a record of it"?
reading vivax right
Please tell me you have more things to back you up except past games... Because that is the worst proof you can have for social deduction games... Also what is wifom?
If you've been reading our posts, we don't think grack would of passed the mission as a spy because they could of blamed you for it easily.
Vivax's play and behavior this game does not makes sense coming from scum which we've explained in detail and was the reason we sent him on the mission.
The Vivax/Grack towread theory is very simple. Unless they are on the same team, their townread of each other is worth noting because they have a history of being able to read each other correctly. Is it the only reason we would use to townread either of them? Absolutely not. But it does play a small factor.
~SilverWolf77
Passing the first mission does not make sense for sharkie as a spy either, using that same logic of yours...
On February 08 2017 00:03 Vivax wrote: I wouldn't even be so tunneled, but this happened:
During noms I asked rtanisoul who the third should be alongside grack and swika.
They said sharkie or themselves. They didn't put a fight over sending Grack and Swika. So everything suggested that they trust them, right? At least it suggested it to me. Third candidate would be the risky one, and I thought that was the consensus.
Yet when the mission is over and now we're contemplating the consequences of a failure, Grack and Swika are suddenly at the same level of suspiciousness as sharkie for them and that is something I disagree with and that doesn't look at all like it looked for them, back when I nominated.
WHEN HAVE WE EVER SUGGESTED SWIKA IS MAFIA?!
And obviously we were going to put the same 3 people on the next mission when the first mission fails. We were pretty certain in our townreads on grack, swika, sharkie and yourself. Certain enough to send a mission which is the god damn point. I don't know anyone's alignment for certain because I lack that information. No one's play but perhaps silver's is 100% coming from town all the time and the fact that a mission where I had four strong townreads will in all likeliness fail means that yes I did re-eval the mission.
I've explained my thought process plenty of times, it wasn't sudden.
On February 07 2017 23:45 Silverika wrote: in short (ika here):
sharkie voting no when the only person he suspects on this team is vivax makes no sense form a towns POV. a town!sharkie should of voted yes on this to confirm vivax as scum/town (becasue scum!vivax would be forced to sabbo this or next mission where as twon!viv with town!shrakie is auto win)
so basically if this mission is sabboed, sharkie is the spy who did it
You people keep using this logic and it doesn't work because it presumes that people have 100% townreads on the other people in the mission AND it presumes that failing a mission to identify a spy is worth it.
Even if he was 100% on both you and grack, look at it from his situation. If vivax is mafia, he learns that Vivax is mafia whilst the rest of the thread (given thread sentiment) all believe HE is the spy. He knows Vivax is mafia but it doesn't help him in the slightest because he cannot convince the rest of the game of it. A mission is failed and a townie is left out of any further consideration, a disastrous result.
you start with false premises and you end with wrong conclusions.
grack town read vivax and has a record of it and vice versa
so FMPOV and many other IMO they would have to argue one of two cases
a) both are scum b) one is fooling the other
thats only in the scum!vivax world cus thats seems to be your angle
What do you mean grack "has a record of it"?
reading vivax right
Please tell me you have more things to back you up except past games... Because that is the worst proof you can have for social deduction games... Also what is wifom?
If you've been reading our posts, we don't think grack would of passed the mission as a spy because they could of blamed you for it easily.
Vivax's play and behavior this game does not makes sense coming from scum which we've explained in detail and was the reason we sent him on the mission.
The Vivax/Grack towread theory is very simple. Unless they are on the same team, their townread of each other is worth noting because they have a history of being able to read each other correctly. Is it the only reason we would use to townread either of them? Absolutely not. But it does play a small factor.
~SilverWolf77
They do? Where do you derive this from?
Newbie game we played it they both said it. I also believed they mentioned it here
Anyone scumreading me should probably read my last resistance game. I was mafia and gave no shits. Vivax was in it so I have no idea how he can still be misreading me.
Sharkie has been way way townier today than he has been anywhere before. I'm pretty sure he's just town.
I also think Silver is town
Vivax just keeps arguing that Silver/I aren't mafia based off WIFOM instead of analyzing posts and is ignoring sharkie making townie posts. I kind of think he just wants to take the opposing position of the other spy because he is basing his read on Silver/I on such weak reasoning while arguing that we need to ignore vote logic because it's WIFOM.
My new guess is that the team is Vivax/Artisoul/Tumblewood.
I think that would explain the yes votes for the first mission since one of Vivax/Artisoul was guaranteed to be put in the second mission for putting in Sharkie.
EPT
