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Silver, Question: If Sharkie had voted in favor of the mission and the mission had failed, who would you believe was the spy?
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On February 07 2017 23:49 Silverika wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2017 23:48 sharkie wrote:On February 07 2017 23:45 Silverika wrote:
in short (ika here):
sharkie voting no when the only person he suspects on this team is vivax makes no sense form a towns POV. a town!sharkie should of voted yes on this to confirm vivax as scum/town (becasue scum!vivax would be forced to sabbo this or next mission where as twon!viv with town!shrakie is auto win)
so basically if this mission is sabboed, sharkie is the spy who did it Not wanting to gift the spies a mission = reason for being a spy. Good analysis! Oh look, here comes that negativity you didn't like or want to read. tsk tsk sharkie ~SilverWolf77
Did you actually read what I said? I said I did not like negativity towards the game.
Also this is not negativity, this is feeling stressed because people assume things of you just because it fits their view?
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On February 07 2017 23:49 RtaniSoul wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2017 23:45 Silverika wrote:
in short (ika here):
sharkie voting no when the only person he suspects on this team is vivax makes no sense form a towns POV. a town!sharkie should of voted yes on this to confirm vivax as scum/town (becasue scum!vivax would be forced to sabbo this or next mission where as twon!viv with town!shrakie is auto win)
so basically if this mission is sabboed, sharkie is the spy who did it You people keep using this logic and it doesn't work because it presumes that people have 100% townreads on the other people in the mission AND it presumes that failing a mission to identify a spy is worth it. Even if he was 100% on both you and grack, look at it from his situation. If vivax is mafia, he learns that Vivax is mafia whilst the rest of the thread (given thread sentiment) all believe HE is the spy. He knows Vivax is mafia but it doesn't help him in the slightest because he cannot convince the rest of the game of it. A mission is failed and a townie is left out of any further consideration, a disastrous result.
Your continued defense of Sharkie and his boner for you also is duly noted.
~SilverWolf77
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On February 07 2017 23:51 Silverika wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2017 23:49 RtaniSoul wrote:On February 07 2017 23:45 Silverika wrote:
in short (ika here):
sharkie voting no when the only person he suspects on this team is vivax makes no sense form a towns POV. a town!sharkie should of voted yes on this to confirm vivax as scum/town (becasue scum!vivax would be forced to sabbo this or next mission where as twon!viv with town!shrakie is auto win)
so basically if this mission is sabboed, sharkie is the spy who did it You people keep using this logic and it doesn't work because it presumes that people have 100% townreads on the other people in the mission AND it presumes that failing a mission to identify a spy is worth it. Even if he was 100% on both you and grack, look at it from his situation. If vivax is mafia, he learns that Vivax is mafia whilst the rest of the thread (given thread sentiment) all believe HE is the spy. He knows Vivax is mafia but it doesn't help him in the slightest because he cannot convince the rest of the game of it. A mission is failed and a townie is left out of any further consideration, a disastrous result. Your continued defense of Sharkie and his boner for you also is duly noted. ~SilverWolf77
You do know that only the worst spies would ever defend other spies?
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On February 07 2017 23:49 RtaniSoul wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2017 23:45 Silverika wrote:
in short (ika here):
sharkie voting no when the only person he suspects on this team is vivax makes no sense form a towns POV. a town!sharkie should of voted yes on this to confirm vivax as scum/town (becasue scum!vivax would be forced to sabbo this or next mission where as twon!viv with town!shrakie is auto win)
so basically if this mission is sabboed, sharkie is the spy who did it You people keep using this logic and it doesn't work because it presumes that people have 100% townreads on the other people in the mission AND it presumes that failing a mission to identify a spy is worth it. Even if he was 100% on both you and grack, look at it from his situation. If vivax is mafia, he learns that Vivax is mafia whilst the rest of the thread (given thread sentiment) all believe HE is the spy. He knows Vivax is mafia but it doesn't help him in the slightest because he cannot convince the rest of the game of it. A mission is failed and a townie is left out of any further consideration, a disastrous result.
you start with false premises and you end with wrong conclusions.
grack town read vivax and has a record of it and vice versa
so FMPOV and many other IMO they would have to argue one of two cases
a) both are scum
b) one is fooling the other
thats only in the scum!vivax world cus thats seems to be your angle
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On February 07 2017 23:50 RtaniSoul wrote:
Silver, Question: If Sharkie had voted in favor of the mission and the mission had failed, who would you believe was the spy?
are we saying that only EC voted it down?
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On February 07 2017 23:51 Silverika wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2017 23:49 RtaniSoul wrote:On February 07 2017 23:45 Silverika wrote:
in short (ika here):
sharkie voting no when the only person he suspects on this team is vivax makes no sense form a towns POV. a town!sharkie should of voted yes on this to confirm vivax as scum/town (becasue scum!vivax would be forced to sabbo this or next mission where as twon!viv with town!shrakie is auto win)
so basically if this mission is sabboed, sharkie is the spy who did it You people keep using this logic and it doesn't work because it presumes that people have 100% townreads on the other people in the mission AND it presumes that failing a mission to identify a spy is worth it. Even if he was 100% on both you and grack, look at it from his situation. If vivax is mafia, he learns that Vivax is mafia whilst the rest of the thread (given thread sentiment) all believe HE is the spy. He knows Vivax is mafia but it doesn't help him in the slightest because he cannot convince the rest of the game of it. A mission is failed and a townie is left out of any further consideration, a disastrous result. Your continued defense of Sharkie and his boner for you also is duly noted. ~SilverWolf77
Clearly we're both spies and massively associating with one another because that strategy makes a lot more sense than town players who believe that other people are wrong.
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On February 07 2017 23:54 Silverika wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2017 23:49 RtaniSoul wrote:On February 07 2017 23:45 Silverika wrote:
in short (ika here):
sharkie voting no when the only person he suspects on this team is vivax makes no sense form a towns POV. a town!sharkie should of voted yes on this to confirm vivax as scum/town (becasue scum!vivax would be forced to sabbo this or next mission where as twon!viv with town!shrakie is auto win)
so basically if this mission is sabboed, sharkie is the spy who did it You people keep using this logic and it doesn't work because it presumes that people have 100% townreads on the other people in the mission AND it presumes that failing a mission to identify a spy is worth it. Even if he was 100% on both you and grack, look at it from his situation. If vivax is mafia, he learns that Vivax is mafia whilst the rest of the thread (given thread sentiment) all believe HE is the spy. He knows Vivax is mafia but it doesn't help him in the slightest because he cannot convince the rest of the game of it. A mission is failed and a townie is left out of any further consideration, a disastrous result. you start with false premises and you end with wrong conclusions. grack town read vivax and has a record of it and vice versa so FMPOV and many other IMO they would have to argue one of two cases a) both are scum b) one is fooling the other thats only in the scum!vivax world cus thats seems to be your angle
What do you mean grack "has a record of it"?
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On February 07 2017 20:44 RtaniSoul wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2017 20:30 emperorchampion wrote:On February 07 2017 19:48 Superbia wrote:
Welp I like grack as the mafia. Hmm I looked into grack but I'm not sure. Look at these posts: On February 05 2017 15:48 Grackaroni wrote:
Ok I might be slightly stupid, but I swear this mission is going to fail. This game is way too easy right now. And the spy isn't Vivax. It's one of Silver/sharkie. On February 07 2017 03:13 Grackaroni wrote:
my team makes sense to me. I'm pretty sure the next mission is going to fail.
Silverika is too indignant to be scum.
Vivax is actually coming up with a lot of thought out scum pairings without trying too hard to be town read. Plus he said right off the bat that Silver/I aren't scum, which is a good thing from my perspective.
Tumblewood/Artanis are both like "I think Grack could definitely be scum here. Full steam ahead guys!"
##Accept. Plus Tumblewood is super blendy while Rtanisoul seems to mainly be trying to buddy Silver.
Everyone else seems to be showing at least some level of skepticism over the team. I think we are (were) at similar points in this game. Another issue with grack as scum for me, is that when I look at sl's play it completely turned at mission 1. I'm thinking through if sl passes mission 1 for a town read on either sharkie/silver. If you look at all the reasons that he fails attempt 3 vs attempt 4: it's grack not on the team, leader not on the team, and not silver nominating VS silver on the team anyways, sharkie on the team, and leader still not on team. I don't see how town sl votes down my team by votes up vivax's team, so sl as scum conditions my read on grack as well. Also given this: On February 04 2017 01:21 Grackaroni wrote:
Right now I see the game in terms of 3 groups (listed in no particular order):
The definite town:
Grackaroni
Silverika
The townie feels
Artanisoul
Vivax
Sharkie
The people without townie feels
Emperorchampion
The one of these two is scum group
Tumblewood
Superbia
The definite scum
Sicklucker
I still think at least one of Super/Tumble will be red. Don't see grack/sl, putting his team mate at the bottom, don't think scum usually does that. Especially since I think that grack has pretty easy out for a town read on sl earlier. Pretty sure given the interactions silver/sl is not a team. Maybe I'm just mega tunneled but I'm also running out of places to look, I'm in an sl/sharkie world right now. I dunno, I don't have the same issue of grack/sl not being a team. SL has played an incredibly low-effort game and pretty much everyone and their mom has scumread him. It'd be difficult for Grack to get any mission in with SL on it so there's not much harm done by bussing him. Plus, if thread sentiment changes, he can change his position too anyway. I'm not sure where you're going with the mission 3/4 thing regarding SL. Could you explain that a bit further? Show nested quote +On February 07 2017 20:38 Vivax wrote:
Can't be in a sharkie world without rtanisoul in it tbh.
If this fails I'm ride or die sharkie + rtanisoul I'm glad we got tunnelvivax back.
Yeah that's true regarding grack / sl.
I'll explain what I was thinking:
Attempt 3 (team I proposed) the issues that sl was raising were:
- the leader not on the team
- no grack on the team
- silver on the team (strong (est) scum read from super)
Some things about attempt 4 (vivax's team):
- leader not on team
- silver on team
- sharkie on team (also strong scum read from super)
His whole point for yay voting vivax's team was that he didn't want silver's team to be auto-picked since it was his strongest scum read. That + I suppose grack is on the team now, his strongest town read. But I don't see the logic (maybe sl will help here) with voting a team with your strongest scum read versus let that person pick the team. Actually the had his two strongest scum reads at that time (as I recall). Like this team for him should be auto-fail, so I can't see why he would approve it. #justslthings 
Scum motivation that I see is to pass a team with at least 1 scum on it knowing he's ostracized in any case if team mate decides to fail; and in the present case he can give an easy town read to any of the members on the team (i.e., silver or sharkie who he was previously scum reading) cause they are now part of a team that succeeded in passing a mission.
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On February 07 2017 23:54 Silverika wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2017 23:49 RtaniSoul wrote:On February 07 2017 23:45 Silverika wrote:
in short (ika here):
sharkie voting no when the only person he suspects on this team is vivax makes no sense form a towns POV. a town!sharkie should of voted yes on this to confirm vivax as scum/town (becasue scum!vivax would be forced to sabbo this or next mission where as twon!viv with town!shrakie is auto win)
so basically if this mission is sabboed, sharkie is the spy who did it You people keep using this logic and it doesn't work because it presumes that people have 100% townreads on the other people in the mission AND it presumes that failing a mission to identify a spy is worth it. Even if he was 100% on both you and grack, look at it from his situation. If vivax is mafia, he learns that Vivax is mafia whilst the rest of the thread (given thread sentiment) all believe HE is the spy. He knows Vivax is mafia but it doesn't help him in the slightest because he cannot convince the rest of the game of it. A mission is failed and a townie is left out of any further consideration, a disastrous result. you start with false premises and you end with wrong conclusions. grack town read vivax and has a record of it and vice versa so FMPOV and many other IMO they would have to argue one of two cases a) both are scum b) one is fooling the other thats only in the scum!vivax world cus thats seems to be your angle
Obviously, B is the case. I have a strong townread on Sharkie and you believe I'm wrong or scum. We're exactly the same in that regard as your beloved grack and vivax.
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On February 07 2017 23:52 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2017 23:51 Silverika wrote:On February 07 2017 23:49 RtaniSoul wrote:On February 07 2017 23:45 Silverika wrote:
in short (ika here):
sharkie voting no when the only person he suspects on this team is vivax makes no sense form a towns POV. a town!sharkie should of voted yes on this to confirm vivax as scum/town (becasue scum!vivax would be forced to sabbo this or next mission where as twon!viv with town!shrakie is auto win)
so basically if this mission is sabboed, sharkie is the spy who did it You people keep using this logic and it doesn't work because it presumes that people have 100% townreads on the other people in the mission AND it presumes that failing a mission to identify a spy is worth it. Even if he was 100% on both you and grack, look at it from his situation. If vivax is mafia, he learns that Vivax is mafia whilst the rest of the thread (given thread sentiment) all believe HE is the spy. He knows Vivax is mafia but it doesn't help him in the slightest because he cannot convince the rest of the game of it. A mission is failed and a townie is left out of any further consideration, a disastrous result. Your continued defense of Sharkie and his boner for you also is duly noted. ~SilverWolf77 You do know that only the worst spies would ever defend other spies?
wifom point is wifom.
i could never defend my spy buddy but then if i got outed spy people could see i never interacted with that player and presume its a spy
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So the latest pages are rtanisoul and sharkie pushing the notion that spies dont defend each other when there are no flips and bussing is suicidal.
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On February 07 2017 23:54 RtaniSoul wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2017 23:51 Silverika wrote:On February 07 2017 23:49 RtaniSoul wrote:On February 07 2017 23:45 Silverika wrote:
in short (ika here):
sharkie voting no when the only person he suspects on this team is vivax makes no sense form a towns POV. a town!sharkie should of voted yes on this to confirm vivax as scum/town (becasue scum!vivax would be forced to sabbo this or next mission where as twon!viv with town!shrakie is auto win)
so basically if this mission is sabboed, sharkie is the spy who did it You people keep using this logic and it doesn't work because it presumes that people have 100% townreads on the other people in the mission AND it presumes that failing a mission to identify a spy is worth it. Even if he was 100% on both you and grack, look at it from his situation. If vivax is mafia, he learns that Vivax is mafia whilst the rest of the thread (given thread sentiment) all believe HE is the spy. He knows Vivax is mafia but it doesn't help him in the slightest because he cannot convince the rest of the game of it. A mission is failed and a townie is left out of any further consideration, a disastrous result. Your continued defense of Sharkie and his boner for you also is duly noted. ~SilverWolf77 Clearly we're both spies and massively associating with one another because that strategy makes a lot more sense than town players who believe that other people are wrong.
occam razor works wonders doesnt it? i mena we can have this back and forth of "well i think your wrong" all day long
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On February 07 2017 23:54 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2017 23:54 Silverika wrote:On February 07 2017 23:49 RtaniSoul wrote:On February 07 2017 23:45 Silverika wrote:
in short (ika here):
sharkie voting no when the only person he suspects on this team is vivax makes no sense form a towns POV. a town!sharkie should of voted yes on this to confirm vivax as scum/town (becasue scum!vivax would be forced to sabbo this or next mission where as twon!viv with town!shrakie is auto win)
so basically if this mission is sabboed, sharkie is the spy who did it You people keep using this logic and it doesn't work because it presumes that people have 100% townreads on the other people in the mission AND it presumes that failing a mission to identify a spy is worth it. Even if he was 100% on both you and grack, look at it from his situation. If vivax is mafia, he learns that Vivax is mafia whilst the rest of the thread (given thread sentiment) all believe HE is the spy. He knows Vivax is mafia but it doesn't help him in the slightest because he cannot convince the rest of the game of it. A mission is failed and a townie is left out of any further consideration, a disastrous result. you start with false premises and you end with wrong conclusions. grack town read vivax and has a record of it and vice versa so FMPOV and many other IMO they would have to argue one of two cases a) both are scum b) one is fooling the other thats only in the scum!vivax world cus thats seems to be your angle What do you mean grack "has a record of it"?
reading vivax right
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On February 07 2017 23:57 Vivax wrote:
So the latest pages are rtanisoul and sharkie pushing the notion that spies dont defend each other when there are no flips and bussing is suicidal.
I have brought up that argument exactly once, but nice generalization.
The sad part is that some of you are town. I'm out.
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On February 07 2017 23:57 Vivax wrote:
So the latest pages are rtanisoul and sharkie pushing the notion that spies dont defend each other when there are no flips and bussing is suicidal.
pretty much.
i mena without flips you cna buddy/bus all you like cus in the end its gonna be a bunch of WIFOM
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On February 07 2017 23:56 RtaniSoul wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2017 23:54 Silverika wrote:On February 07 2017 23:49 RtaniSoul wrote:On February 07 2017 23:45 Silverika wrote:
in short (ika here):
sharkie voting no when the only person he suspects on this team is vivax makes no sense form a towns POV. a town!sharkie should of voted yes on this to confirm vivax as scum/town (becasue scum!vivax would be forced to sabbo this or next mission where as twon!viv with town!shrakie is auto win)
so basically if this mission is sabboed, sharkie is the spy who did it You people keep using this logic and it doesn't work because it presumes that people have 100% townreads on the other people in the mission AND it presumes that failing a mission to identify a spy is worth it. Even if he was 100% on both you and grack, look at it from his situation. If vivax is mafia, he learns that Vivax is mafia whilst the rest of the thread (given thread sentiment) all believe HE is the spy. He knows Vivax is mafia but it doesn't help him in the slightest because he cannot convince the rest of the game of it. A mission is failed and a townie is left out of any further consideration, a disastrous result. you start with false premises and you end with wrong conclusions. grack town read vivax and has a record of it and vice versa so FMPOV and many other IMO they would have to argue one of two cases a) both are scum b) one is fooling the other thats only in the scum!vivax world cus thats seems to be your angle Obviously, B is the case. I have a strong townread on Sharkie and you believe I'm wrong or scum. We're exactly the same in that regard as your beloved grack and vivax.
then why are you not trying to persuade grack that he is wrong as well?
can you explain why scum!vivax who was widly town read at the time of his nomination removed himself?
i feel like you missing the objective things that he has done that if he is spy he is argubly playing in a suboptimal manner
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I wouldn't even be so tunneled, but this happened:
During noms I asked rtanisoul who the third should be alongside grack and swika.
They said sharkie or themselves. They didn't put a fight over sending Grack and Swika. So everything suggested that they trust them, right? At least it suggested it to me. Third candidate would be the risky one, and I thought that was the consensus.
Yet when the mission is over and now we're contemplating the consequences of a failure, Grack and Swika are suddenly at the same level of suspiciousness as sharkie for them and that is something I disagree with and that doesn't look at all like it looked for them, back when I nominated.
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On February 07 2017 23:49 RtaniSoul wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2017 23:45 Silverika wrote:
in short (ika here):
sharkie voting no when the only person he suspects on this team is vivax makes no sense form a towns POV. a town!sharkie should of voted yes on this to confirm vivax as scum/town (becasue scum!vivax would be forced to sabbo this or next mission where as twon!viv with town!shrakie is auto win)
so basically if this mission is sabboed, sharkie is the spy who did it You people keep using this logic and it doesn't work because it presumes that people have 100% townreads on the other people in the mission AND it presumes that failing a mission to identify a spy is worth it. Even if he was 100% on both you and grack, look at it from his situation. If vivax is mafia, he learns that Vivax is mafia whilst the rest of the thread (given thread sentiment) all believe HE is the spy. He knows Vivax is mafia but it doesn't help him in the slightest because he cannot convince the rest of the game of it. A mission is failed and a townie is left out of any further consideration, a disastrous result.
To be fair I think this is the correct analysis. I realized it my self after pushing for tumble to be on my team that it's actually a pretty backwards way of thinking. Think in the future should just push to have people that you think are all town. MAYBE on like the 4th team or something, but I dunno if it makes sense for the first team of the round.
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On February 08 2017 00:03 Vivax wrote:
I wouldn't even be so tunneled, but this happened:
During noms I asked rtanisoul who the third should be alongside grack and swika.
They said sharkie or themselves. They didn't put a fight over sending Grack and Swika. So everything suggested that they trust them, right? At least it suggested it to me. Third candidate would be the risky one, and I thought that was the consensus.
Yet when the mission is over and now we're contemplating the consequences of a failure, Grack and Swika are suddenly at the same level of suspiciousness as sharkie for them and that is something I disagree with and that doesn't look at all like it looked for them, back when I nominated.
I want to know where this strong townread sharkie and rtani soul suddenly developed on each other.
~SilverWolf77
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EPT
