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I've finally gotten over the emotional trauma
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We got no medic save n0, so shouldn't cop claim come at day?
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I'd lynch either Tumblewood or NeverUnlucky. Both of them posted a bunch of game math yesterday, with the mistake of assuming everything goes well for town, even going as far as avoiding the scenario where either the cop or medic dies. A town looking at game math usually thinks about worst case scenarios and how to avoid them, whereas scum try to convince town of the best case scenarios happening. Neither of them even mentioned the possibility of cop or medic dying, probably because Koshi was a respect kill and not a blue snipe.
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On December 07 2016 08:55 Tumblewood wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 07:47 Chairman Ray wrote:
I'd lynch either Tumblewood or NeverUnlucky. Both of them posted a bunch of game math yesterday, with the mistake of assuming everything goes well for town, even going as far as avoiding the scenario where either the cop or medic dies. A town looking at game math usually thinks about worst case scenarios and how to avoid them, whereas scum try to convince town of the best case scenarios happening. Neither of them even mentioned the possibility of cop or medic dying, probably because Koshi was a respect kill and not a blue snipe. worst case scenario: blue role dies ways to prevent it: doc save ask politely none glad we figured that one out and I think I did say "if things don't go according to plan we play mafia as normal"
Point taken. You mentioned that you are leaning town on NeverUnlucky (specifically you said not neutral). What's your reasoning for that read?
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On December 07 2016 11:09 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 10:24 Tumblewood wrote:On December 07 2016 10:10 NeverUnlucky wrote:On December 07 2016 10:01 NeverUnlucky wrote:On December 07 2016 07:47 Chairman Ray wrote:
I'd lynch either Tumblewood or NeverUnlucky. Both of them posted a bunch of game math yesterday, with the mistake of assuming everything goes well for town, even going as far as avoiding the scenario where either the cop or medic dies. A town looking at game math usually thinks about worst case scenarios and how to avoid them, whereas scum try to convince town of the best case scenarios happening. Neither of them even mentioned the possibility of cop or medic dying, probably because Koshi was a respect kill and not a blue snipe. I find it opportunistic that you call me and tw out on our lack of assumptions now that the medic was shanked rather than when we were actually discussing it ie I doubt that you would be reproaching us this if it was a VT that flipped today. Also, I dislike that you are entering the day with two targets you'd like to see lynched, especially since pretty much nothing happened N0, so I don't understand how you're ready to see myself or tw lynched already. Also, I don't think your justification to scum-read either of us is worthy of calling us lynch targets. Point 2 is specifically worse because we're in mylo, and you shouldn't enter the day with a pre-conceived idea of who you want to lynch. well, you might if the pre-conceived idea is a series of posts leading you to the conclusion that someone is scum. mylo is like a normal day except usually without a lynch I disagree, but it's pointless to argue about theoretical/non-game related stuff. And ray doesn't have that series of posts.
Same question to you. You said you had a town lean on Tumblewood, even though you mentioned that nothing has happened this game. How come he's leaning town?
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On December 07 2016 15:13 ExO_ wrote:
I don't agree with Chairman ray's logic about scum would only post in best case scenarios.
I pretty much don't agree with NU's line of thinking regarding TW trying to buddy him, but I think his activity (lol) and bothering to explain it like that makes him town to me.
Ray looks sketchy to me.
TW looks Town.
Just to expand on my previous point, I didn't mean that scum would only post in best case scenarios, but instead that they might mistakenly ignore a very obvious scenario that town wouldn't.
The one scenario that was almost ignored was a blue getting killed N0. If they were town, they could have genuinely believed that if a blue died, we don't have to do anything differently, but if they were mafia, maybe they weren't planning to blue snipe so they ignored it.
But the bigger thing they left out was the scenario that mafia fakeclaims, in which case there are no confirmed town or redchecks on D1. There's a fairly good chunk of math in this scenario which they shouldn't have ignored. Unless of course they knew that mafia wasn't going to fakeclaim, and look where we are now.
So just to summarize, these are my suspicions:
- TW and NU post math assuming that blue roles don't die - Koshi was killed, who I don't think was a blue snipe
- TW and NU ignore the scenario that mafia fakeclaims - Mafia aren't fakeclaiming
So yes, I think it's very possible that they were just speaking casually on whatever was at the top of their mind, but given that they decided to math out a very narrow scenario without much reasoning, and that scenario happened exactly as they assumed, it seems like a really big coincidence.
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On December 07 2016 15:13 ExO_ wrote:
I don't agree with Chairman ray's logic about scum would only post in best case scenarios.
I pretty much don't agree with NU's line of thinking regarding TW trying to buddy him, but I think his activity (lol) and bothering to explain it like that makes him town to me.
Ray looks sketchy to me.
TW looks Town.
I have the opposite impression of NU's explanation. All I did was ask the two of them what their townreads were. NU reacted by distancing himself.
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On December 08 2016 07:55 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 16:26 Chairman Ray wrote:On December 07 2016 15:13 ExO_ wrote:
I don't agree with Chairman ray's logic about scum would only post in best case scenarios.
I pretty much don't agree with NU's line of thinking regarding TW trying to buddy him, but I think his activity (lol) and bothering to explain it like that makes him town to me.
Ray looks sketchy to me.
TW looks Town. Just to expand on my previous point, I didn't mean that scum would only post in best case scenarios, but instead that they might mistakenly ignore a very obvious scenario that town wouldn't. The one scenario that was almost ignored was a blue getting killed N0. If they were town, they could have genuinely believed that if a blue died, we don't have to do anything differently, but if they were mafia, maybe they weren't planning to blue snipe so they ignored it. But the bigger thing they left out was the scenario that mafia fakeclaims, in which case there are no confirmed town or redchecks on D1. There's a fairly good chunk of math in this scenario which they shouldn't have ignored. Unless of course they knew that mafia wasn't going to fakeclaim, and look where we are now. So just to summarize, these are my suspicions:
- TW and NU post math assuming that blue roles don't die - Koshi was killed, who I don't think was a blue snipe
- TW and NU ignore the scenario that mafia fakeclaims - Mafia aren't fakeclaiming
So yes, I think it's very possible that they were just speaking casually on whatever was at the top of their mind, but given that they decided to math out a very narrow scenario without much reasoning, and that scenario happened exactly as they assumed, it seems like a really big coincidence. This is what I have a problem with @cakepie. TW and NU post math that assume blue roles don't die. But that's not scummy in the slightest. Scum have absolutely 0 way of knowing if they are going to catch a blue or a VT. They mapped out scenarios in which blues don't die on N0 and then blues did die on N0. The scenario didn't happen exactly as they assumed. The lack of fake claiming at this point doesn't mean much. It will happen eventually but just because it hadn't happened (and especially when CR posted) doesn't mean it won't happen. Using all of that reasoning to imply that TW and NU are scum is complete bullshit imo. And the cherry on top is he back pedals with "but its possible they were just casually speaking whatever was on the top of their mind" Summed up "Yeah I wanna imply that you guys are scum with really bad reasoning, but not commit to it." Looks sketchy and very possible scum-filler type of post.
I don't think you represented my case fairly.
I want to know what you think of TW and NU. When you read over their 'game math' posts, does it read to you like town who are actively trying to win the game? Why didn't you push them for it?
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On December 08 2016 10:19 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 16:26 Chairman Ray wrote:
TW and NU ignore the scenario that mafia fakeclaims - Mafia aren't fakeclaiming I did touch that topic actually : Show nested quote +On December 06 2016 09:33 NeverUnlucky wrote:
I agree that cop should claim at day start, and I also think that the medic should claim. NO VT EVER CC's. Force 1 on 1 with mafia or have up to 3 confirmed town if cop gets a green check who lives through the night. Show nested quote +So yes, I think it's very possible that they were just speaking casually on whatever was at the top of their mind, but given that they decided to math out a very narrow scenario without much reasoning, and that scenario happened exactly as they assumed, it seems like a really big coincidence. I am confused here. A blue died last night which is not the scenario tw or I described N0. Can you clarify what the coincidence is?
My problem was that you and TW totally flushed out the scenario where both medic and cop are alive and go uncountered, and everything else is handy dandy, while leaving a very brief mention or ignoring entirely all other scenarios.
Whether or not Koshi flipped blue is not important given that mafia didn't know what he was. Given that it was Koshi dying, I would give it a higher chance that the mafia weren't trying to bluesnipe at all.
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On December 08 2016 11:00 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2016 10:49 Chairman Ray wrote:On December 08 2016 07:55 ExO_ wrote:On December 07 2016 16:26 Chairman Ray wrote:On December 07 2016 15:13 ExO_ wrote:
I don't agree with Chairman ray's logic about scum would only post in best case scenarios.
I pretty much don't agree with NU's line of thinking regarding TW trying to buddy him, but I think his activity (lol) and bothering to explain it like that makes him town to me.
Ray looks sketchy to me.
TW looks Town. Just to expand on my previous point, I didn't mean that scum would only post in best case scenarios, but instead that they might mistakenly ignore a very obvious scenario that town wouldn't. The one scenario that was almost ignored was a blue getting killed N0. If they were town, they could have genuinely believed that if a blue died, we don't have to do anything differently, but if they were mafia, maybe they weren't planning to blue snipe so they ignored it. But the bigger thing they left out was the scenario that mafia fakeclaims, in which case there are no confirmed town or redchecks on D1. There's a fairly good chunk of math in this scenario which they shouldn't have ignored. Unless of course they knew that mafia wasn't going to fakeclaim, and look where we are now. So just to summarize, these are my suspicions:
- TW and NU post math assuming that blue roles don't die - Koshi was killed, who I don't think was a blue snipe
- TW and NU ignore the scenario that mafia fakeclaims - Mafia aren't fakeclaiming
So yes, I think it's very possible that they were just speaking casually on whatever was at the top of their mind, but given that they decided to math out a very narrow scenario without much reasoning, and that scenario happened exactly as they assumed, it seems like a really big coincidence. This is what I have a problem with @cakepie. TW and NU post math that assume blue roles don't die. But that's not scummy in the slightest. Scum have absolutely 0 way of knowing if they are going to catch a blue or a VT. They mapped out scenarios in which blues don't die on N0 and then blues did die on N0. The scenario didn't happen exactly as they assumed. The lack of fake claiming at this point doesn't mean much. It will happen eventually but just because it hadn't happened (and especially when CR posted) doesn't mean it won't happen. Using all of that reasoning to imply that TW and NU are scum is complete bullshit imo. And the cherry on top is he back pedals with "but its possible they were just casually speaking whatever was on the top of their mind" Summed up "Yeah I wanna imply that you guys are scum with really bad reasoning, but not commit to it." Looks sketchy and very possible scum-filler type of post. I don't think you represented my case fairly. I want to know what you think of TW and NU. When you read over their 'game math' posts, does it read to you like town who are actively trying to win the game? Why didn't you push them for it? They were not 'game math' posts as you put it. We were arguing why cop/medic should claim USING 'math' to demonstrate it. Also, you're hardly pushing either of us. You shared your thoughts on me and TW discussing game mechanics, but other than asking us why we town-leaned each other, you never engaged in a conversation with either of us to push us. That, and your whole contribution this game is about me and TW. So. What is your take on ExO and cakepie?
If you and TW are interested in using math to demonstrate whether or not cop should claim, why the sudden lack of interest today? Exo made a strong push in favor of cop claiming. TW made a short mention that cop should only claim if he checks red. You haven't mentioned anything at all. I would expect that TW should be fighting hard against Exo and you to have some sort of opinion as well. You two were so passionate yesterday but you don't seem to care today.
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On December 08 2016 04:57 cakepie wrote:I have to call it a night here. Figure that most of you NA folks are going about your day with work, school and whatnot. Hopefully at least some of you are still up when I get back on tomorrow. - H1 thanks for our brief exchange. Please work with the others while I'm asleep.
- TW explain yourself. There's quite a bit you have to answer for already so I don't see a need to give you any additional specific questions at this point.
- ExO you owe me an answer for #115. Can you please elaborate on C-Ray and other stuff in #98.
- C-Ray, what would NU+TW scumteam accomplish by having both scummers come into thread and push (bad/misleading) plan and stick out like sore thumbs touting their activity and shit-giving when town has been moderately quiet night 0? If it's not a NU+TW scumteam, then which of the two is scum? And who of the remaining players is their scumbuddy?
- NU you already have several questions from me. Remember to filter ExO for me please.
If NU+TW is the scumteam, I don't think they were trying to push a bad plan at all. The simplest explanation would be to feign activity, and most oftentimes that comes in the form of game math.
In my experiences, mafia tend to buddy up more when they're the most active ones, and draw distance when town are the most active ones. If the two mafia were the active ones in the middle of a quiet town, I could totally see them patting each other on the back for being active.
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On December 09 2016 02:14 NeverUnlucky wrote:And like you, I had no success in engaging in a conversation with Ray. His response to my asking what his reads on you and exo were was: Show nested quote +On December 08 2016 11:17 Chairman Ray wrote:On December 08 2016 11:00 NeverUnlucky wrote:On December 08 2016 10:49 Chairman Ray wrote:On December 08 2016 07:55 ExO_ wrote:On December 07 2016 16:26 Chairman Ray wrote:On December 07 2016 15:13 ExO_ wrote:
I don't agree with Chairman ray's logic about scum would only post in best case scenarios.
I pretty much don't agree with NU's line of thinking regarding TW trying to buddy him, but I think his activity (lol) and bothering to explain it like that makes him town to me.
Ray looks sketchy to me.
TW looks Town. Just to expand on my previous point, I didn't mean that scum would only post in best case scenarios, but instead that they might mistakenly ignore a very obvious scenario that town wouldn't. The one scenario that was almost ignored was a blue getting killed N0. If they were town, they could have genuinely believed that if a blue died, we don't have to do anything differently, but if they were mafia, maybe they weren't planning to blue snipe so they ignored it. But the bigger thing they left out was the scenario that mafia fakeclaims, in which case there are no confirmed town or redchecks on D1. There's a fairly good chunk of math in this scenario which they shouldn't have ignored. Unless of course they knew that mafia wasn't going to fakeclaim, and look where we are now. So just to summarize, these are my suspicions:
- TW and NU post math assuming that blue roles don't die - Koshi was killed, who I don't think was a blue snipe
- TW and NU ignore the scenario that mafia fakeclaims - Mafia aren't fakeclaiming
So yes, I think it's very possible that they were just speaking casually on whatever was at the top of their mind, but given that they decided to math out a very narrow scenario without much reasoning, and that scenario happened exactly as they assumed, it seems like a really big coincidence. This is what I have a problem with @cakepie. TW and NU post math that assume blue roles don't die. But that's not scummy in the slightest. Scum have absolutely 0 way of knowing if they are going to catch a blue or a VT. They mapped out scenarios in which blues don't die on N0 and then blues did die on N0. The scenario didn't happen exactly as they assumed. The lack of fake claiming at this point doesn't mean much. It will happen eventually but just because it hadn't happened (and especially when CR posted) doesn't mean it won't happen. Using all of that reasoning to imply that TW and NU are scum is complete bullshit imo. And the cherry on top is he back pedals with "but its possible they were just casually speaking whatever was on the top of their mind" Summed up "Yeah I wanna imply that you guys are scum with really bad reasoning, but not commit to it." Looks sketchy and very possible scum-filler type of post. I don't think you represented my case fairly. I want to know what you think of TW and NU. When you read over their 'game math' posts, does it read to you like town who are actively trying to win the game? Why didn't you push them for it? They were not 'game math' posts as you put it. We were arguing why cop/medic should claim USING 'math' to demonstrate it. Also, you're hardly pushing either of us. You shared your thoughts on me and TW discussing game mechanics, but other than asking us why we town-leaned each other, you never engaged in a conversation with either of us to push us. That, and your whole contribution this game is about me and TW. So. What is your take on ExO and cakepie? If you and TW are interested in using math to demonstrate whether or not cop should claim, why the sudden lack of interest today? Exo made a strong push in favor of cop claiming. TW made a short mention that cop should only claim if he checks red. You haven't mentioned anything at all. I would expect that TW should be fighting hard against Exo and you to have some sort of opinion as well. You two were so passionate yesterday but you don't seem to care today. where he completely disregarded my question and my point on him not pushing us.
I think it's quite clear that I have been pushing on you two, because that's all I've been doing this game. The only thing I haven't done is post my final verdict, which you seem to be really worried about. This is twice that you have asked me to push on you both. Not only that, you posted a couple more times about other people's perception of you:
On December 09 2016 03:18 NeverUnlucky wrote:... TW, update on your scum-filter-dive of me? 
On December 09 2016 03:20 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2016 03:15 cakepie wrote:
Did H1 just vote and bugger off? Meh. ... I find it hard to believe that his stance on CRay, ExO and me haven't changed since, especially since I think that his reads weren't strong at the time.
And just alluding back to the post where you distanced yourself from TW when all I did was ask for you townread:
On December 07 2016 11:31 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 11:15 Chairman Ray wrote:On December 07 2016 11:09 NeverUnlucky wrote:On December 07 2016 10:24 Tumblewood wrote:On December 07 2016 10:10 NeverUnlucky wrote:On December 07 2016 10:01 NeverUnlucky wrote:On December 07 2016 07:47 Chairman Ray wrote:
I'd lynch either Tumblewood or NeverUnlucky. Both of them posted a bunch of game math yesterday, with the mistake of assuming everything goes well for town, even going as far as avoiding the scenario where either the cop or medic dies. A town looking at game math usually thinks about worst case scenarios and how to avoid them, whereas scum try to convince town of the best case scenarios happening. Neither of them even mentioned the possibility of cop or medic dying, probably because Koshi was a respect kill and not a blue snipe. I find it opportunistic that you call me and tw out on our lack of assumptions now that the medic was shanked rather than when we were actually discussing it ie I doubt that you would be reproaching us this if it was a VT that flipped today. Also, I dislike that you are entering the day with two targets you'd like to see lynched, especially since pretty much nothing happened N0, so I don't understand how you're ready to see myself or tw lynched already. Also, I don't think your justification to scum-read either of us is worthy of calling us lynch targets. Point 2 is specifically worse because we're in mylo, and you shouldn't enter the day with a pre-conceived idea of who you want to lynch. well, you might if the pre-conceived idea is a series of posts leading you to the conclusion that someone is scum. mylo is like a normal day except usually without a lynch I disagree, but it's pointless to argue about theoretical/non-game related stuff. And ray doesn't have that series of posts. Same question to you. You said you had a town lean on Tumblewood, even though you mentioned that nothing has happened this game. How come he's leaning town? His posts don't seem like he's trying to appear good rather like he's saying what he thinks. However, I am wary that he may be attempting to buddy because of these two posts: Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 00:36 Tumblewood wrote:On December 07 2016 00:32 NeverUnlucky wrote:On December 07 2016 00:28 Tumblewood wrote:On December 07 2016 00:26 NeverUnlucky wrote:On December 07 2016 00:24 Tumblewood wrote:On December 07 2016 00:17 NeverUnlucky wrote:Yo, TW, you up for a chat with me? I've one spare hour  I've got half of one but sure Noice. Do you think you're a good cop check for tonight? no because I think I'm one of the more likely players to die tonight That's the generic answer. Why do you think so? Have you ever been NKed before? Judging from HM3 idk why you would think you're in danger of being killed, lol. If you have some non-math related questions for me, do ask. This game is pretty slow so far. because the NK is always between me you and Koshi. the other players aren't 'respected'and aren't acting townie either I don't understand why anybody would think that I am a night target for something that is not a blue snipe. idk, I feel like he's either over-evaluating my play or attempting to be on my good side. Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 01:37 Tumblewood wrote:On December 07 2016 01:24 Tumblewood wrote:On December 07 2016 00:46 Tumblewood wrote:On December 07 2016 00:39 NeverUnlucky wrote:On December 07 2016 00:36 Tumblewood wrote:On December 07 2016 00:32 NeverUnlucky wrote:On December 07 2016 00:28 Tumblewood wrote:On December 07 2016 00:26 NeverUnlucky wrote:On December 07 2016 00:24 Tumblewood wrote:
[quote]
I've got half of one but sure Noice. Do you think you're a good cop check for tonight? no because I think I'm one of the more likely players to die tonight That's the generic answer. Why do you think so? Have you ever been NKed before? Judging from HM3 idk why you would think you're in danger of being killed, lol. If you have some non-math related questions for me, do ask. This game is pretty slow so far. because the NK is always between me you and Koshi. the other players aren't 'respected'and aren't acting townie either Oh wow, so much honor for me. c: What do you think of other players' entries, specifically cakepie entering with math and hopeless checking in to check out? And Koshi, what happened to the "This town isn't going to be lazy" shtick you had last game? their entrances are not exciting so idc as for you, me, koshi I like to reward give-a-shitness ebwop actually for Koshi it's the whole 'respect kill' thing. didn't mean to lump him in with us Here he set me and him in a separate category, and it made me uneasy. Meh, he's more town than maf to me.
It's quite clear that you are overly concerned with other people's perception of you, and that's a huge scumtell.
If you want to know my opinion of ExO and cakepie, I think they're town for now.
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On December 09 2016 04:33 Tumblewood wrote:ray, accusing someone of distancing is not an argument for them being scum. also, being concerned with one's perception is a pretty weak tell, because both town and scum do it + Show Spoiler +turns out no one likes being lynched and because the line between "a regular amount" and "too much" is incredibly subjective
You argue that being worried about perception can be either town or mafia, and it's incredibly subjective, that I agree with, which is why I pushed on him. However, you came to NU's defense before letting him speak for himself, which is a direct contradiction with your argument.
Just a few posts ago you were asking for other people's scumreads on NU so you can gain some perspective. You don't actually seem that interested after all.
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##vote: tumblrewood
Ah fuck it let's do it
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On December 09 2016 05:26 Tumblewood wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2016 04:50 Chairman Ray wrote:On December 09 2016 04:33 Tumblewood wrote:ray, accusing someone of distancing is not an argument for them being scum. also, being concerned with one's perception is a pretty weak tell, because both town and scum do it + Show Spoiler +turns out no one likes being lynched and because the line between "a regular amount" and "too much" is incredibly subjective You argue that being worried about perception can be either town or mafia, and it's incredibly subjective, that I agree with, which is why I pushed on him. However, you came to NU's defense before letting him speak for himself, which is a direct contradiction with your argument. Just a few posts ago you were asking for other people's scumreads on NU so you can gain some perspective. You don't actually seem that interested after all. I did want someone to help play devil's advocate and then saw yet another example of the trend where every single game he's scum he dies D1 because he's painfully obvious. and there is no contradiction in my argument. I wasn't defending him so much as calling out your shitty argument..
I don't buy this at all. You argued how NU acted could be either town or mafia, and it's subjective. But the way you are acting now, and have been throughout the game, you already have your mind made up that he's town.
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On December 09 2016 05:26 Tumblewood wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2016 04:50 Chairman Ray wrote:On December 09 2016 04:33 Tumblewood wrote:ray, accusing someone of distancing is not an argument for them being scum. also, being concerned with one's perception is a pretty weak tell, because both town and scum do it + Show Spoiler +turns out no one likes being lynched and because the line between "a regular amount" and "too much" is incredibly subjective You argue that being worried about perception can be either town or mafia, and it's incredibly subjective, that I agree with, which is why I pushed on him. However, you came to NU's defense before letting him speak for himself, which is a direct contradiction with your argument. Just a few posts ago you were asking for other people's scumreads on NU so you can gain some perspective. You don't actually seem that interested after all. I did want someone to help play devil's advocate and then saw yet another example of the trend where every single game he's scum he dies D1 because he's painfully obvious. and there is no contradiction in my argument. I wasn't defending him so much as calling out your shitty argument..
Ok I'm trying to think about this from your perspective.
Chairman Ray made a very polarizing post giving only the mafia perspective of NU's gameplay. I feel that NU's gameplay also makes sense from a town perspective. I'm going to point out this flaw to Chairman Ray.
Is this the correct interpretation?
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On December 09 2016 05:55 Tumblewood wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2016 05:47 Chairman Ray wrote:On December 09 2016 05:26 Tumblewood wrote:On December 09 2016 04:50 Chairman Ray wrote:On December 09 2016 04:33 Tumblewood wrote:ray, accusing someone of distancing is not an argument for them being scum. also, being concerned with one's perception is a pretty weak tell, because both town and scum do it + Show Spoiler +turns out no one likes being lynched and because the line between "a regular amount" and "too much" is incredibly subjective You argue that being worried about perception can be either town or mafia, and it's incredibly subjective, that I agree with, which is why I pushed on him. However, you came to NU's defense before letting him speak for himself, which is a direct contradiction with your argument. Just a few posts ago you were asking for other people's scumreads on NU so you can gain some perspective. You don't actually seem that interested after all. I did want someone to help play devil's advocate and then saw yet another example of the trend where every single game he's scum he dies D1 because he's painfully obvious. and there is no contradiction in my argument. I wasn't defending him so much as calling out your shitty argument.. Ok I'm trying to think about this from your perspective. Chairman Ray made a very polarizing post giving only the mafia perspective of NU's gameplay. I feel that NU's gameplay also makes sense from a town perspective. I'm going to point out this flaw to Chairman Ray. Is this the correct interpretation? I don't fully understand your interpretation so I will rephrase my own: ray is making a point that NU is distancing from me ergo NU is scum (maybe I misinterpreted your post) -> that's not a valid argument. in the same post ray says NU cares about his image too much ergo NU is scum -> I will point out that that's a bad tell to use because it is subjective and not useful.
This is not exactly what I meant, but given that ExO gave me shit for the same thing, I don't think you're intentionally misconstruing my posts, so I'll reevaluate on this.
##Unvote
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My original case about NU still stands.
At the start of D1, NU and TW had townreads on one another. There was no pressure on them from anybody else. All I did was ask each of them, in a very neutral manner, what their townread was. If you were town and genuinely believed that the other person was town as well, you would just give me your town reads. Instead, NU posted his scumreads on TW about how TW is overpocketing him. The posts that NU were criticizing were posted BEFORE NU said that TW was towny. So when TW was overpocketing NU, NU should be suspicious at that time, but instead, he gave TW a townread. It wasn't until I asked him for his reasonings did he finally post his suspicions. From a mafia perspective, this makes perfect sense. Chairman Ray asked both TW and NU what their townreads were. Oh crap, he's onto us, better not seem too friendly. From a town perspective, this doesn't make a lot of sense.
Secondly, NU in two instances asked about what other people's reads of him were. At those times, TW had a strong townread on him, and only I was really on him. He argued that I wasn't pushing on him, so I guess he didn't feel any pressure at all. I would expect town to only worry about their perception if they are under the gun. So given that the overall vibe was positive towards NU, why was he so pre-occupied with other people's reads on him?
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EPT
