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On June 26 2016 08:53 Damdred wrote:
The most interesting thing is besides Tt I think I have solid reasons to tr most people.
Jean is null though. Its going to be a long and hard game it seems. There is one reason to tr Jean but idk could be a smurf
He is a smurf.
On June 26 2016 08:53 Tumblewood wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2016 08:45 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 26 2016 08:44 Tumblewood wrote:
art do you think you've found scum in jean? I dunno. My read from the list post hasn't really changed significantly. do you have any read on him based on his tone? it's pretty uncharacteristic of TL.
Trying to hide his identity. He's played Hajime before so it's probably an oldschool smurf. Looking at a few posts there it's clear he's got a persona going on there, making tonereads less reliable.
All meta aside I'd give him a slight townlean on moving onto the next player in emperor whilst we were discussing me/him and the amount of scumreads he has, averaging him out on null I guess?
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Inspector Artanis has proof
Slam admits it was his smurf on the first post in the page after.
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On June 26 2016 18:36 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2016 17:58 Superbia wrote:On June 26 2016 11:47 Tictock wrote:On June 26 2016 07:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Absolutely 100% confirmed town
Chezinu
Town
Damdred
Skynx
Tumblewood
Quicktwist
Townish
Subparbia
-power gap-
Emperorarechampion
Null
GlowingBear
Jealous
MoosyDoosy
Mildly leaning mafia
Jean Valjean
Lean mafia
Ticktock Lol, total 180 on QT. Now I'm your main scumread kus I called you and Damdred boring. Good shit. TT. srsly. Did you not read the thread at all? x: I barely skimmed before and I knew art 180d on QT like 20hrs before he made that list. Are you not paying any attention to your scumreads? Yea I saw him drop his scumread, but putting QT in his top 4 town now? That's a pretty big swing in thinking. Also think his read on me is mostly OMGUS and he's throwing out weak meta to try and cover it.
Yeah no. If anything, I tend to reverse OMGUS more than anything since I figure mafia is unlikely to go after me as I'm difficult to lynch. This game however, too many people have so I've softened that up a little.
I think there's a good chance you're mafia and waivering it away as an OMGUS read doesn't really negate that in the slightest.
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On June 26 2016 12:25 emperorchampion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2016 12:00 MoosyDoosy wrote:
@emperorchampion, what do you think of Artanis? Have to read up on this guy, null atm
I find this really difficult to believe. Probably the most discussed player on D1 and he doesn't have a read on me. Would lynch.
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I also have a natural bias against OMGUSing because I know people tend to view scumreading someone that suspects you as such so I tend to focus on other people. It's kinda funny/stupid but it's true.
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On June 26 2016 18:40 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2016 18:26 Superbia wrote:On June 26 2016 18:24 Jean Valjean wrote:
I want to chat Superbia.
I strongly disagree with you on Artanis. Why do you think he's town? You're slam? Artanis has displayed multiple times throughout this game that he is actively looking at filters from other games to figure out alignments. Showcasing that he wants to, and is, putting actual time into evaluating people's alignments. Also he (probably correctly) re-evaluated on QT, which seemed genuine. Yea I kinda disagree with both these reasons to TR art. Looking into meta is something scum can do to create a read, and I felt like his flip on QT was more so giving up than a re-evaluation. Though I suppose he gave decent reasoning after his flip as to why QT is probably town.
You're either really tunneled or really mafia. You ask Super for why he townreads me, then your rebuttal when he brings up points is "well, but people can do this as mafia." No shit, anyone can do anything as mafia.
If you're town and actually want to figure out my alignment or reconsider your read, put in some effort.
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On June 26 2016 18:48 Jean Valjean wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2016 18:27 Superbia wrote:
Also why do you think artanis is mafia? Because I have trouble believing that Artanis' approach to just about anything this game is even half genuine. In the initial stages he was joking around, but uncharacteristically he wasn't really funny at all. He is a funny guy so it is actually suspicious when he tries to be funny but is only marginally funny. This might mean that he was making jokes not because he felt like making jokes, but rather because he thought it would be a good idea to make jokes for other reasons.
Weak, but I can see it.
Secondly I liked Skynx's case on Artanis, and I did not like Artanis' response to it. Skynx doesn't prove Artanis is mafia with that case, but he does bring up some justifiable points about Artanis' approach to the game. Most notably the stiffness in his transition from joking to what was a fairly weak attack on QT.
I was the first person to actually get the game rolling. I also felt like I saw something and switched gears because of it. I tend to do that in all my games as either alignment.
Artanis responded by dismissing the case and throwing a townread Skynx's way, I do not disagree with the sentiment that Skynx looks a lot better for casing Artanis, but the dismissal of the case was done in a way I don't believe a veteran player would dismiss a case. Artanis should have explained why the things he did don't make him mafia, instead of just semi-ridiculing the case. Ridiculing accusations is a sign of weakness.
The problem with his case is that it was simply an interpretation of events that could be viewed in multiple ways. I showed him another way and he said I was twisting the case, which I really wasn't since it came down to narrative.
Thirdly, he called me out for doing little. As I have already explained, I had no real problem with him throwing a scumread my way, but he did it for the wrong reason. Then afterwards he claimed he had done it to "rile me up" while then also claiming his initial reason was valid. I don't believe Artanis genuinely thinks that he was riling me up. When he made an off-hand comment on me and threw me on a list he was barely targeting me at all and had no idea I would actually respond to him, given my lack of contributions at that point in the game. I think it's much more likely he saw an easy opportunity to sort of call someone out that would possibly not bother to really respond to him, giving him an easy and uncontroversial scumlean.
This is all interpretation. I'm playing freely, doing as I please and I usually have fun when I'm playing town. You called out someone which I felt was unjustly so I played the ball back at you. That was the main reason I did it; the very light scumread was because of the reason I stated: commenting on things without having read all of it, and I had already indicated it was very weak.
Lastly, Artanis has thrown around townreads with way too much confidence this game. Chezinu, Damdred, Skynx, QT all got pretty hard townreads from him for relatively flimsy reasons. I just have a hard time believing he is actually working through the scenarios to reach a conclusion, feels like he is just throwing something out there and running with it.
I explained the Chez read pregame.
I've hard townread Damdred since the beginning because he feels like he's playing freely. He gave me a townread and when asked he instantly said it was basically so we wouldn't fight or something to that accord. I just don't think he instantly says something like that as mafia. It indicates he isn't bothered by how people see him.
Skynx and QT are newbies and the paranoia and genuineness I see in them I think would be extremely hard to fake for newbies. I'm very confident in both those reads for good reasons.
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On June 26 2016 18:54 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2016 18:44 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I also have a natural bias against OMGUSing because I know people tend to view scumreading someone that suspects you as such so I tend to focus on other people. It's kinda funny/stupid but it's true. So then maybe you should explain your read on me a little better.
You've been a complete non-factor throughout the game, mostly just echoing sentiments of others. Your focus point has been on things other than reads in the early game when you did have time, such as plans on mayor/pardoner. You also seem very stuck in your reads, no fluidity at all and call me out for changing my reads as if it were a scum factor, and don't really seem to be attempting to unearth people's alignments.
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On June 26 2016 18:59 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2016 18:47 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 26 2016 18:40 Tictock wrote:On June 26 2016 18:26 Superbia wrote:On June 26 2016 18:24 Jean Valjean wrote:
I want to chat Superbia.
I strongly disagree with you on Artanis. Why do you think he's town? You're slam? Artanis has displayed multiple times throughout this game that he is actively looking at filters from other games to figure out alignments. Showcasing that he wants to, and is, putting actual time into evaluating people's alignments. Also he (probably correctly) re-evaluated on QT, which seemed genuine. Yea I kinda disagree with both these reasons to TR art. Looking into meta is something scum can do to create a read, and I felt like his flip on QT was more so giving up than a re-evaluation. Though I suppose he gave decent reasoning after his flip as to why QT is probably town. You're either really tunneled or really mafia. You ask Super for why he townreads me, then your rebuttal when he brings up points is "well, but people can do this as mafia." No shit, anyone can do anything as mafia. If you're town and actually want to figure out my alignment or reconsider your read, put in some effort. I didn't ask him, just responded to his reasons kus I didn't think they are great reasons to TR you. You are right that this interaction is kinda pointless atm though kus we are just beating each other in the head. How about this, who do you think should be Mayor?
Me, obviously.
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On June 26 2016 19:04 Jean Valjean wrote:
Another problem with the townreads is that you're coming dangerously close to solving the game from your own perspective Artanis. You've hard townread 5 people. In addition in your world clearly you aren't mafia, and if you don't townread me by now you're essentially just proving you're scum. So that's 7 people that can't be mafia. You seemed to be fairly certain superbia isn't scum so that's 8.
This leaves your entire pool of mafia as GB, TT, Emperor, Jealous and moosy. Mostly inactive and background players + your favorite tunnel. Moosy is deliberately playing scummy so there's that. Like there is no way I believe you'd so strongly narrow the pool for scum to something so small.
I just don't know. I cannot believe this is actually how you think because it's awful.
Neither of these are true.
Also, even hard townreads can drop off. It's just unlikely.
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I've never seen you truly try as mafia, Slam. I've seen you truly try as town and you've had incredible games there. I don't see why not hard townreading you would be proving I'm scum, that's a very loaded statement.
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On June 26 2016 19:09 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2016 19:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 26 2016 18:54 Tictock wrote:On June 26 2016 18:44 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I also have a natural bias against OMGUSing because I know people tend to view scumreading someone that suspects you as such so I tend to focus on other people. It's kinda funny/stupid but it's true. So then maybe you should explain your read on me a little better. You've been a complete non-factor throughout the game, mostly just echoing sentiments of others. Your focus point has been on things other than reads in the early game when you did have time, such as plans on mayor/pardoner. You also seem very stuck in your reads, no fluidity at all and call me out for changing my reads as if it were a scum factor, and don't really seem to be attempting to unearth people's alignments. Do you think this is a scum trait in general or specific to me? Calling me a non-factor is just hurtful  + Show Spoiler +and not particularly accurate imo I am kinda holding back on my reads some, I can agree that can be kinda scummy. Prob just gunna have to deal with it though.
I think it is true in general. I also think it's true for you in the sense that you're a lot more interesting when you're town than what's currently going on.
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On June 26 2016 19:13 Skynx wrote:
Also I don't think we should refer JVJ as smurf unless he confirms. If i were Alakaslam I'd just create another account which takes 5 seconds instead of joining a game as a smurf you already confirmed.
He obviously is a smurf. It's possible it's not Slam but at the very least it's someone Slam knows since he had the account which makes him a smurf by any account.
I also think it's likely that it actually is Slam since he didn't respond to the comments that it's him at all.
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On June 26 2016 19:15 Jean Valjean wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2016 19:09 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I've never seen you truly try as mafia, Slam. I've seen you truly try as town and you've had incredible games there. I don't see why not hard townreading you would be proving I'm scum, that's a very loaded statement. You don't know whether or not my alternate identity is Slam. Applying some meta that might be completely wrong is dumb. The sentence is loaded because it should be. The way I've approached pressuring you is not something many players on this site are capable of doing as mafia. To think I'm mafia, one or two things kinda have to be true. 1) you must think I am excellent at playing scum 2) you must not have noticed the kind of pressure being put on you is not something normal or off-hand The simple conclusion to my alignment, assuming I'm not some scum-god, is that I must be town because there's almost no one capable of doing what I have been doing as mafia. So yes, the statement is loaded, because it is intended to be.
It's not that hard to kick a puppy that's already being kicked by a few others. Plus, knowing I'm town means I know you're tunneling on town, which has plenty of mafia reasoning behind it. The fact that you're trying so hard to use it as leverage to get townread also diminishes its worth as clearly you're very aware of what you're doing.
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On June 26 2016 19:21 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2016 19:11 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 26 2016 19:09 Tictock wrote:On June 26 2016 19:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 26 2016 18:54 Tictock wrote:On June 26 2016 18:44 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I also have a natural bias against OMGUSing because I know people tend to view scumreading someone that suspects you as such so I tend to focus on other people. It's kinda funny/stupid but it's true. So then maybe you should explain your read on me a little better. You've been a complete non-factor throughout the game, mostly just echoing sentiments of others. Your focus point has been on things other than reads in the early game when you did have time, such as plans on mayor/pardoner. You also seem very stuck in your reads, no fluidity at all and call me out for changing my reads as if it were a scum factor, and don't really seem to be attempting to unearth people's alignments. Do you think this is a scum trait in general or specific to me? Calling me a non-factor is just hurtful + Show Spoiler +and not particularly accurate imo I am kinda holding back on my reads some, I can agree that can be kinda scummy. Prob just gunna have to deal with it though. I think it is true in general. I also think it's true for you in the sense that you're a lot more interesting when you're town than what's currently going on. Yea see this just shows you have no real understanding of my meta... And you're wrong, I'm pretty darned interesting. I know... my mom told me.
I remember that in Outlaw you were pretty interesting. In PYP, you were also interesting. I don't think you've rolled scum recently (database is outdated and your last game there is nutcracker) so I don't really have much to compare with on the other side, but this doesn't look like your town game to me.
I agree, you're usually interesting. Therefore it is very disappointing that this game you're not
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On June 26 2016 19:23 Jean Valjean wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2016 19:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 26 2016 19:15 Jean Valjean wrote:On June 26 2016 19:09 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I've never seen you truly try as mafia, Slam. I've seen you truly try as town and you've had incredible games there. I don't see why not hard townreading you would be proving I'm scum, that's a very loaded statement. You don't know whether or not my alternate identity is Slam. Applying some meta that might be completely wrong is dumb. The sentence is loaded because it should be. The way I've approached pressuring you is not something many players on this site are capable of doing as mafia. To think I'm mafia, one or two things kinda have to be true. 1) you must think I am excellent at playing scum 2) you must not have noticed the kind of pressure being put on you is not something normal or off-hand The simple conclusion to my alignment, assuming I'm not some scum-god, is that I must be town because there's almost no one capable of doing what I have been doing as mafia. So yes, the statement is loaded, because it is intended to be. It's not that hard to kick a puppy that's already being kicked by a few others. Plus, knowing I'm town means I know you're tunneling on town, which has plenty of mafia reasoning behind it. The fact that you're trying so hard to use it as leverage to get townread also diminishes its worth as clearly you're very aware of what you're doing. I am perfectly aware of what I am doing Artanis, I am very smart. I am also perceptive enough to undestand why what you're doing right now is not logical. For example, when Skynx pushed you with weaker and less coherent reasons, and put less force behind the push than I am doing now, you simply wrote him off as town for the very fact that he wrote a case on you. For some reason I'm not getting the same treatment. If anything, my points are better thought out and more valid than Skynx', so why am I not getting the same treatment? Objectively, I have, in this conversation and the previous one, put you on the defense. How many scum players on TL can put you on defense when you're town? I understand other players do not have to townread me, they're not you. But you, specifically, should really be changing your mind about my alignment right now.
Because Skynx is a newbie and you're, as you put it, very smart, and probably have a lot of experience in playing mafia. I use different bars for different players.
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For further ego stroking I request you ask someone else though. That felt very icky.
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On June 26 2016 19:41 Jean Valjean wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2016 19:26 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 26 2016 19:23 Jean Valjean wrote:On June 26 2016 19:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 26 2016 19:15 Jean Valjean wrote:On June 26 2016 19:09 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I've never seen you truly try as mafia, Slam. I've seen you truly try as town and you've had incredible games there. I don't see why not hard townreading you would be proving I'm scum, that's a very loaded statement. You don't know whether or not my alternate identity is Slam. Applying some meta that might be completely wrong is dumb. The sentence is loaded because it should be. The way I've approached pressuring you is not something many players on this site are capable of doing as mafia. To think I'm mafia, one or two things kinda have to be true. 1) you must think I am excellent at playing scum 2) you must not have noticed the kind of pressure being put on you is not something normal or off-hand The simple conclusion to my alignment, assuming I'm not some scum-god, is that I must be town because there's almost no one capable of doing what I have been doing as mafia. So yes, the statement is loaded, because it is intended to be. It's not that hard to kick a puppy that's already being kicked by a few others. Plus, knowing I'm town means I know you're tunneling on town, which has plenty of mafia reasoning behind it. The fact that you're trying so hard to use it as leverage to get townread also diminishes its worth as clearly you're very aware of what you're doing. I am perfectly aware of what I am doing Artanis, I am very smart. I am also perceptive enough to undestand why what you're doing right now is not logical. For example, when Skynx pushed you with weaker and less coherent reasons, and put less force behind the push than I am doing now, you simply wrote him off as town for the very fact that he wrote a case on you. For some reason I'm not getting the same treatment. If anything, my points are better thought out and more valid than Skynx', so why am I not getting the same treatment? Objectively, I have, in this conversation and the previous one, put you on the defense. How many scum players on TL can put you on defense when you're town? I understand other players do not have to townread me, they're not you. But you, specifically, should really be changing your mind about my alignment right now. Because Skynx is a newbie and you're, as you put it, very smart, and probably have a lot of experience in playing mafia. I use different bars for different players. I do like that I managed to put you in a corner where your options were a) call me awesome b) call yourself mafia Anyway, I think I'll leave you for now, but that doesn't mean you're out of danger. You are currently the lynch target for my mayoral campaign, and will remain so. There's two reasons I'm not going to bother with you for a while, the first one is that I need to read up on other players to better flesh out my platform and vision for this game, and secondly it's just mean to run up the score when you're so thoroughly trouncing your opponent.
I will probably spite lynch you if you keep this up btw. Your ego's choking out the game.
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On June 26 2016 19:45 Superbia wrote:
Art who is jean? You seem to have a fair idea now.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was Supersoft given I recall him signing up for a game then /out'ing a little bit ago and I recall him having an ego around this size without the ability to match, all seeming fairly familiar.
If it's actually Slam I'll be really really disappointed in him
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EPT
