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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
On June 22 2016 06:55 CopCake wrote: But isnt yamatto better at making cases against you that rsoultin? If you had read the thread you'd know this has already been discussed. Why don't people read the game they are playing? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
Yamato is already a scumread for basically all the players in the game, and he hard-townreads me and townreads rsoultin. Basically regardless what yamato does, starts playing better or not, he is already in a position where he cannot possibly call either of us mafia on D1, and that makes my / rsoultin's job easier in case we are mafia. Or if he does, he will look worse than which again makes our job easier - since he will be even more likely to get lynched. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
On June 22 2016 07:00 Shapelog wrote: Ik tbh This game was hard for me really after the yammty shot. Everyone really honestly sounded somewhat townie at one point at another, and I was focusing too much on dumb shit then the overall picture. I was lost. yeah, i basically yolo'd it. read the scum QT.  But honestly, none of what you said in your post makes me mafia, i had a really easy game here. If you think that makes me scum you are gonna scumread me in every single game ever. ^^ | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
It was gonna be super hard to argue "why shoot Superbia the obvious goon" and as i was already scumreading him i would look terrible if i then didn't scumread him on D1 in case he doesn't get shot, but yamato kinda gave me a logical reason to assume "Superbia is the GF". Funnily enough town managed to have kinda the right idea of how to do this, but i don't even know how i was able to turn it around on D1, i mean this: [14:22:47] Joni Toiviainen: if the town is going to shoot town we are definitely shooting the same person the town shoots whoever that is. technically the besty play would be if the town shoots you but we can't push it, because the person who pushes goon to be shot looks terrible on D1 (while they should), but i would assume that's gonna happen anyways [14:23:24] Joni Toiviainen: i don't really think you should play "intentionally scummy", because someone smart can figure out you should not actually shoot the scummiest person in the game because they are likely to be goon. I was like "fuuuuuck" when Shapelog made the post about the "best play" on N0 but somehow i managed to turn that around. Skynx got it too late (started arguing about it only on D1 when it doesn't matter anymore). | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
Your posts are really hard to follow at times and they seem to be losing the main point and get sidetracked. The problem with this is making a convincing case like that is super hard. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
On June 22 2016 07:26 Shapelog wrote: I've noticed, more if I write what happens down more, I do better. For example, I wouldn't have thought you were scum until, believe it or not, done the page by page thing. (1)I saw the not questioning Rsoul thing, and that made me think. (2)I also forgot about Super interaction with you hard. Should of been more of a point. (1) I would have never questioned rsoultin as town either, because all game we were on the same page, and honestly if i was town, i would have probably ended up doing exactly what i did here. idk why would you question someone who already agrees with you? (2) Where does the "the player who interacted the most with flipped mafia is mafia" come from? I mean, i question people i think are scummy, or irrational. That is only natural. That always leads to interactions, and especially with me because i am suuuuuper nitpicky and want to get bottom of everything. I always end up arguing A LOT with people i think are mafia when they are in thread. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
would give the movie a perfect 5/7. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
Like if i am actually town, how am i going to counter that argument since it has nothing to do with MY actions? Smart mafia is gonna use that kind of logic against you -- i.e. do things that make someone else look scummy by not the person's OWN actions. I believe all cases should be based on what the person themselves did, not by what someone else did. Because all it does is it leads to is confirmation bias because there is no reliable defense. Like even i, in this game, did not accuse you of being mafia solely for the fact that yamato got shot. Because it is a dumb argument in itself. It's a point to look into some direction, but it doesn't make anyone mafia. I outlined the reasons why i find it most likely that my starting point for the argument is sound, and then wrote why i think you are mafia because of YOUR actions in this game. Also i don't usually write a lot about why someone is town, unless they are likely to get lynched. Like i could have said "rsoultin is town because she is on the same page with me all the time -- look, it's not once when we make basically a same post at the same time" but what's the point if they are not lynched anyways? And i figured people would actually see that and make the conclusion without me throwing it on their face. I'd rather focus on stuff that explains why someone is mafia, or questioning people for possible mafia actions, because ultimately that's the point, to find and lynch mafia and convince the town to do so. That's form the town point of view, this game was honestly really close to my town play because i found many things that usually come from scum, and it was easy to argue for them. I am not sure... i mean, i believe if i was rsoultin in this game i would have probably made the exact same choices i did here. It was somehow easy to play scum in this game, not because town played bad but because everything just fell in place. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
On June 22 2016 10:38 Tumblewood wrote: Shape I don't understand your WoT on rayn at all You should do a sentence summary, partly as an exercise but mostly because I'm curious and lazy I'd like to hear that aswell. I mean, there are a lot of defenses i had in my "back pocket" i never needed to use. From what i gathered from the case at the time i read it i think i could have defended myself reasonably. That is assuming i understood it correctly. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
I agree Superbia's play was not good. At least to me it gave the most headache. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
I mean, there is no reason why i should lie about my read on her when i am not trying to lynch her. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
On June 22 2016 18:55 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I don't necessarily agree you would've. As mafia, his case was the only thing that could threaten your win I mean, as town i might have been genuinely mad about people possibly throwing the game based on something really stupid which is not "out of my playbook" as town. I often yell at people and just shut everything down when i feel like someone / people start making bad decisions near the deadline while not doing anything about it earlier. Because it is just bad play, in the long run you will never win like that, and a coinflip win or scumlynch is not satisfying in my opinion, it's no better than "wow we randomly lynched mafia". But yeah, as i said, maybe, idk. edit: I mean like, in somewhat comparison, when i have made my decision i will fight for it and will not change my mind, or at least it's very very unlike (especially in a situation like this). In Outlaw i thought Palmar was scum and made a case. Palmar gave his explanation/defense #1, it didn't make sense. At that point i decided that he HAS to be mafia, and when he gave explanations #2-x, my answer was just always "i don't believe you". That's how i operate. Up until some point i am fully capable and willing to re-evaluate but after certain point it's going to be impossible to change my mind. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
On June 22 2016 19:30 Superbia wrote: Wtf you asshole. You literally asked me on skype to do scummy shit. >:| ehh no? I believe this was our game plan no? [14:23:24] Joni Toiviainen: i don't really think you should play "intentionally scummy", because someone smart can figure out you should not actually shoot the scummiest person in the game because they are likely to be goon. or was there a miscommunication lol? I read the scum QT and i really can't find any sentence where i ask you to play scummy lol. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
On June 22 2016 19:39 Superbia wrote: At one point I was going to go elaborate on my "why shoot the scary town" thing (which btw is prob the best play for town) and you told me on skype to just go afk. :p Hey, it worked out and I'm not complaining. I also didn't do anything stellar this game, but I did support your play. Ahh you mean that... The reason for that was because you had already made the play we talked about. At that point the best play was to get you shot and you not posting anything anymore has the best chances of getting you shot. I mean, if you had lived, there was basically no way i am going to justify not scumreading you anymore at any point during the day phase. Because if i do, whoever of rsoultin and yamato is alive will instantly know i am mafia -- and mafia with you. edit: idk if our original plan would have worked better than this worked. i mean, i genuinely felt like you made a "mistake" when you started calling the shot on me, because at that point i felt pressure regarding "how am i gonna deal with D1 if Superbia is not dead (not call him scum in the end)? And even if he is, how am i gonna make it happen so that it doesn't point to me?". That's something i didn't feel like at all before that -- regardless of if you were gonna get shot or not. but yeah, anyways in the end it worked out. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
But i still think a planned plan with teammates usually ends up in a better result than unplanned play with rash decisions, especially if town plays well. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
I guess i'd say quite balanced. | ||
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