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On January 28 2016 09:10 Tumblewood wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2016 08:07 Trfel wrote:
EBWOP: Why is Eden1892 scum? I don't care about why I'm town.
Also, I really do think that Tumblewood is town, but I would really appreciate him answering my question, since I could be wrong. I'm going to assume you meant this question: Show nested quote +On January 28 2016 06:26 Trfel wrote:
Tumblewood, can you share why you are scumreading Shapelog at this point, please? I don't believe you've mentioned this in a while, correct me if I'm wrong. I'm scumreading Shapelog because he's acted exactly how I would expect a newbie mafia player to act. First, he made direct, offhand allusions to his alignment ("Unless your scum team kills me") that were worded in a way that is very unnatural for a comment like that. More recently, he posted a comment that I found to be odd. Show nested quote +On January 27 2016 16:34 Shapelog wrote:
Like sure his above posts are good. But they are 2 posts. And one of them is about set up (which thank you btw Eden for taking the time to explain) I don't think that warrants a strong TR.
Idk you have played with Eden b/4. But to me it sounds like your trying to buddy/pocket him. Shapelog is just throwing an accusation out (trying to buddy) without much support at all. You can have a town read with few posts, and saying someone's trying to buddy in that situation is really off-putting. He also said many times that he wanted to filter dive certain people or that he wanted to revisit my case on him and never followed up. Show nested quote +On January 27 2016 17:04 Shapelog wrote:On January 27 2016 17:01 Eden1892 wrote:
Look right now even. He has nothing to say except to call people bad. He's in the thread while real, meaningful reads are being given, and he's pointedly not doing anything constructive. And we're supposed to believe this is tryhard town Onegu? Please. Eh i let you guys duel. It is 3 am. I am done. For shapelog in da future: Catch up Filter Drive: Onegu Deathfy Kush TW - I want to vist that scum case on me again. Low active people. It seems like he wants to act like he's suspicious of people without actually caring about the cases for or against them. It's been a little separated / disorganized, but he's said a lot of scummy things that people are overlooking.
So much Slander geez.
1st off, Tumble, what is the compelte list of what a newbie scum does in your book.
2 I did follow up. Did you not see the big post in which I voted Onegu for scum? Or how i said that all PMT filter at the time was defend fess.
3, Yes I threw it out there about the buddy potential. It might of been Pre-empted (I might of been able to see something had i not said anything)
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On January 28 2016 10:18 nooniansoong wrote:jk about my former post. Trfel u got some problems with your case you need to explain. Show nested quote +On January 28 2016 09:31 Trfel wrote:Tumblewood explained his read on Shapelog at my request, you can see this explanation here. Here, he describes why he's continuing to scumread Shapelog. However, you can see that all of the posts he quoted are between his first and second longer posts. Note that in the first post, he discounted Shapelog's "strange" play as non alignment indicative, and in the second, he said that Shapelog was scummy because of his extremely scummy play early on (pre page 16). However, the posts that Tumblewood mentions were all after page 16. This explanation isn't possible. Tumble doesn't say shape is NAI in his first post. He says one thing shape does is NAI but overall the read on shape is scummy.
I am lazy can you Quote it? :3
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On January 28 2016 09:31 Trfel wrote:TumblewoodTumblewood's first post here shows that he is scumreading Shapelog, and he says that this is because Shapelog made two posts where he said that he isn't scum. Tumblewood's argument is that because a townie wouldn't do this, then Shapelog is mafia. He also said that he had a scum lean of darthfoley because of two posts where darthfoley says that he is town, and adds that darthfoley has weird wording in a sentence (the explanation of the darthfoley read is here, where he says that this is the explanation for the scum lean he mentioned previously). Why is Shapelog a stronger scumread than darthfoley? He didn't mention anything else about their play other than these comments, which is weird. Also note that Shapelog was the top suspect at this time. Tumbleweed returned later and posted this post with new reads. He says that he's suspicious of Onegu, Shapelog, and Trfel. He also ends up with a null read on darthfoley, saying that he hasn't done anything to give him a read. This is really strange, because he described a scum lean on darthfoley previously, for the only reasoning that he's shared about Shapelog, who is still his scum read. There are lots of things I don't like about this post, I won't go into all of them, but it really gives the impression of trying to fit in. He later says that darthfoley's play has been solid lately, which doesn't match with his earlier statement that darthfoley hadn't done much to be read on. In addition to these read issues, Tumbleweed feels like he's responding to questions and thread sentiment, instead of actually wanting to solve the game.Tumblewood explained his read on Shapelog at my request, you can see this explanation here. Here, he describes why he's continuing to scumread Shapelog. However, you can see that all of the posts he quoted are between his first and second longer posts. Note that in the first post, he discounted Shapelog's "strange" play as non alignment indicative, and in the second, he said that Shapelog was scummy because of his extremely scummy play early on (pre page 16). However, the posts that Tumblewood mentions were all after page 16. This explanation isn't possible. Logically, Tumblewood cannot be scum. It's possible that he's town and messed up somehow, but given his filter as a whole, I think that he is scum.
So this is the case that has have me waiting for.
I agree Tumbleweed has been really all over the place, and most of his reads (at least mafia) is based off of what is currently going around. He is playing opportunistic, which i'm pretty sure is mostly a mafia play style. Like I said towards Alur question, I invertly gave Tumbleweed a opportunity to scum read me, which lead to this. I would not have gotten it otherwise. Also not being able to hold reads (scum reads especially) together is also a mafia trait.
Eh i read his filter now that i have reached the end, before i call him scum I want to read over it and get my ideas about it.
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Who knows maybe Tumble suffers from what i suffer from which is he reads the thread and at the end feels lost.
Nah
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On January 28 2016 10:46 nooniansoong wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2016 10:44 Trfel wrote:
Sure, someone new might believe that. There's nothing wrong with it. Your point? my point is that if you accept that as an acceptable reason to scumread someone, tumbleweed's reads make perfect sense.
I guess I could see a edger town trying to solve the game, and ends up posting a horrible case Vibe.
Thing is, after all is side and done. I feel like he is still scum reading me for dumb reasons that he tries to find. It shows he is not reading the thread closely (which not a lot of people are doing i feel, including me) and that he isn't fully committed to finding scum.
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@Trofl
He has said why b/4 i am pretty sure.
Also I have decided to just let tumble fight the game himself. I feel like we have given him ways of brushing that case off. we need to see how he responds.
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On January 28 2016 09:34 nooniansoong wrote:
I guess i'd be most comfortable with voting for Jesusincarnate because he was treating eden like assumed town then he says eden is up in the air. See my earlier post on the matter.
.
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On January 28 2016 03:32 nooniansoong wrote:I wish Jesus spoke english better. Show nested quote +On January 27 2016 22:17 JesusIncarnate wrote:
lol people like eden are falling for the simple mafia strat for noobs "I will act stupid and hope people townread me"
Here he is assuming Eden is town, yet he also says: Show nested quote +Eden is up in the air for me. trfel seems pretty town to me. other people i honestly dont care about.
=
On January 28 2016 10:47 nooniansoong wrote:
##unvote
##vote jesusincarnate
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Trofl's Filter Diet:
-roughly (give or take one or two) 37/57 posts from Trofl has been questions.
-About 20 or so 1/2 liners.
-Scattered reads and such.
-cheerful and comical Tone throughout.
-One big case (Tumbleweed)
-Strong memory
For tomorrow since I am tired and going to bed
On January 28 2016 11:13 Ikidomari wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2016 22:42 Shapelog wrote:On January 27 2016 13:51 Ikidomari wrote:On January 27 2016 08:49 Alur wrote:Hi boys! First mafia game anywhere ever for me, should be fun. Got interested from watching the Dota 2 community mafia streams. Also casually ghosted a few of the recent games on TL.
My observations as of right now:1. Shapelog is the most scummy player to me. Reason A: Announcing you have some sort of tell on a player(noon), before he has even posted seems like a really bad idea. If hes mafia he can now attempt to replicate his his VT play from "the last two games", and even if he doesn't do "the tell" he'll be more prepared to defend himself from Shapelog. Reason B: He was the first to bring up the possible setups. Before the game started I considered if there would be any merit for town to discuss setups on D1, and I concluded that talking about it before anyone had claimed anything would be probably be useless. Bringing up useless stuff doesn't further the town agenda. Although the fact that he's done all this so fast is a little confusing. 2. Slight townread on _MexicanAlien. He seems to have a genuine interest in solving the game. Didn't know that mafia knows the setup (could be WIFOM I guess, but whatevs). 3. Slight mafiaread on Darthfoley I would've expected him to be more excited about rolling town considering his previous game. His posting also feels a little casual and uninvested at times: On January 27 2016 06:43 darthfoley wrote:
he did help successfully defend me from a lynch that game tho so shoutouts to you kush Going forward:Talk about other players. On January 27 2016 07:34 _MexicanAlien wrote:
Is anyone else here seeing a pattern? Not sure what you're referring to, very curious to hear what you've noticed. Nice dude, this is my first ever game as well, I also got super interested after binge watching "The Town" with dota personalities. Anyway, relative to the game, Sorry for not posting until now, I was out socializing for Australia Day, then had a graveyard shift at work, and only just got back / read through everything. I don't have any major reads, mostly since I haven't slept in about 36 hours and can't put a coherent thought together. I'll definitely re-read the thread more carefully after I've had a decent sleep and post some more transparent observations, but for now I'll just be lurking.If anyone wants to direct some questions at me feel free. I don't like how this guy only post says that he has reasons to lurk and asking other people to give him questions. Idk, It might be town hearted because he seems to have good reasons to lurk for right now. Still if this guy doesn't post anything make sure you keep a eye on him, as i will be. As I said, I got very little sleep for a long time, and was very busy. I'm here now, I'm fresh, and I'm going to re-read the whole thread. Expect me to post my reads within 2-3 hours
Alright, sounds cool. No rush either, I rather you take the time to make good reads than rush and make crap ones.
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Catching up
On January 28 2016 14:55 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +My read is that jesus is an unhelpful town, who has annoying posts to read- 'sick meme' 'residentsleeper' Show nested quote +Maybe this is a sick town play and we're going to get rid of mafia on the first night, but I think, judging from his experience, Trfel is an experienced mafia player, and is scum trying to get a townie lynched on day 1. Show nested quote +Whoops, My bad. I'm going to vote on my top scum / useless town read at the moment, I'm open to changing this if people sway my opinion.
##Vote JesusIncarnate
There was also someone who he said was town (pepper?) because they posted good questions, but then calls Trofl scummy because of his questions.
There just seems to be a lot contradictions in his reads.
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Also
##:Unvote For the moment. (Onegu still seems scummy to me btw)
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On January 28 2016 15:10 Ikidomari wrote:Again. I'm probably the weakest player in this game, so feel free to lynch me for that reason, but I'm not scum and I'd really love to hang around and learn + Show Spoiler + it was really quite hard to learn from the BTS stream, because you know who is scum and who is town going into it, so there's an inherent bias.
This follow up post was weird from Ikido, Even weirder when I read the above post. The Pity + "Plz no don't lynch me, I want to learnzzzz" = scum lean to me after reading it.
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On January 28 2016 15:16 Eden1892 wrote:
sigh hittin me right in the feels with "keep me alive so I can learn"
Eden 3 - Shapelog 0.
Like Trofl, Eden is stealing my Thunder Rofl. At least he was there when Ikindo. came on and (hopefully) pushed it.
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On January 28 2016 15:16 Eden1892 wrote:I'll humor that your post took a while and you changed your mind as a result, Iki. After all, I pretty rapidly changed course on who I wanted to lynch while I was typing my post  But you got to explain to me what changed your mind. It's a bit odd to me that you claim you did, because you didn't make much mention of Jesus in-between your read on him and your list of reads. And you didn't put it back in at the end... or in the follow-up post where you voted for him...So what changed your mind about Jesus? Please be as specific as you can.
Why did Eden just give Ikindo a back door? I mean I understand where Eden is talking about (especially the rapidly changing reads) but really? Sure maybe Ikindo is a newbie, and sure, trying to analyze 30 hours of posting in 2-3 hours is hard as a newbie. But if we rely on the Newbie excuses all game we might miss a chance to lynch scum.
I want Newbies to learn as well, But they have coaches and at the end of the day, they will learn more from them then from us.
Gosh My Tinfoil Senses are tingling. + Show Spoiler +Could Eden and Ikindo be a scum team? And like Ikindo (knowing his reads after he type them were bad and inconsistent) had Eden purposely scum read him for it so Eden could control the thread about him. Why else would someone like Eden give such a big back door to someone he was scumreading?
On January 28 2016 15:19 _MexicanAlien wrote:Show nested quote +I'm probably the weakest player in the game, so feel free to lynch me for that reason,... Falls back on "I'm the weakest player" when there are better candidates for that role (Shapelog....ect). He's trying to guilt us into not lynching him! This would be a horrible strategy for a townie, a last resort as Mafia!
First off Love the Love Mexy <3
Second, I comptely agree with you. I do not see a benefit as a Townie (Newbie or not) to post "Oh poor oh me" in the thread. Especially if they didn't want to get scum read as town they can just ask their coach.
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On January 28 2016 15:23 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2016 15:16 Eden1892 wrote:sigh hittin me right in the feels with "keep me alive so I can learn" I'll humor that your post took a while and you changed your mind as a result, Iki. After all, I pretty rapidly changed course on who I wanted to lynch while I was typing my post But you got to explain to me what changed your mind. It's a bit odd to me that you claim you did, because you didn't make much mention of Jesus in-between your read on him and your list of reads. And you didn't put it back in at the end... or in the follow-up post where you voted for him... So what changed your mind about Jesus? Please be as specific as you can. *hint, if you want to stay alive, I suggest you do as he says and not fall back on "i'm a noob!" excuse* .... With that said, I am too interested in hearing about why your opinion of JesusIncarnate changed. I'm assuming you read my case against him before you posted, so why the change mid way through your post?
Woah, Woah, Woah, Woah, Woah! Wtf is this shit?
*hint, if you want to stay alive, I suggest you do as he says and not fall back on "i'm a noob!" excuse*
Why are you Directing the person to the back door from eden? Especially, not moments before, you scum read Ikindo.
On January 28 2016 15:07 darthfoley wrote:
Can it actually be that simple Eden? Wouldn't a mafia coach specifically coach against some of the stuff (e.g. noob card, "he's either town or mafia" reads, etc.) that Ikidomari posted?
Are you really that worried that about the coach WIFOM? That because someone is being to much of a newbie?
OR, Just OR,
You read your BFF Eden's post and compositely change you opinion. Which this one is prob. correct sense almost everytime Eden posts, you take on her opionons. You did it here too!
With that said, I am too interested in hearing about why your opinion of JesusIncarnate changed. I'm assuming you read my case against him before you posted, so why the change mid way through your post?
Eden literary just said and suggested that you include magically into your mind set? You are giving Ikindo a back door Along with Eden! Also Why is Darth Parroting everything Eden says? Could the scum team really be Darth, Eden, Ikindo because right now I can connect all three of them? Like I can image the Scum QT:
Ikindo: sorry I haven't been here. I am going to read the thread and try to post reads
Eden or darth: Alright
Ikindo: Fuck, I just read through my reads and they are shady and scummy as fuck. What do I do?
Eden: Relex call down. We try something. But I am going to have to scum read you.
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Actually let me look at timely.
Ikindo posts.
Mexcian says you can't vote.
Darth Pratically ignores everything about the scummy about the reads and ask Ikindo about Trofl and Onegu (could this be him pushing a mafia agenda?)
On January 28 2016 14:42 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2016 14:23 Ikidomari wrote:Hi all, Sorry for being so inactive at the start, I've been real busy with life, and I've had a hell of a rough time catching up on the game, got a major headache trying to figure everything out. I'll try to be far more active from here on out, feel free to question me all you want, and I'll answer as quickly as possible. Sorry for any weird formatting issues, the lack of direct quotes, and general rambly-ness of my post, I'm writing from a phone and having a hell of a time getting it all done. READS with explanations (mostly): + Show Spoiler +
PepperMintTea
Never played forum, but has played in real-life / online, so at least somewhat experienced.
Points out a lot of flaws in people's arguments, times that they've said things that are weak / make little sense. Constantly asking for more information, where people got certain ideas, and asks hard-hitting questions. PMT is one of my top town reads, either that or very good mafia, and I'm being taken for a ride, but based on their lack of forum experience, I'd say PMT is just good town.
Tumbleweed
looks like this is his first game, or one of his first, went very pro-active early, maybe a bit over-aggressive on the scum calls, but started making more town reads later on. I don't know, comes off as bad town trying too hard, or bad mafia to me, i'm not experienced enough to tell the difference. If I had to give a solid answer, I'd say he's bad town who changed his mind a bit too often in an attempt to get reactions out of people, falling over himself trying to avoid being mis-lynched.
JesusIncarnate
Very few posts (I know, he still has more than I do)
Posts he has made haven't been very constructive at all. He's coming off as extremely arrogant, enough so that it's got to be some sort of act, because there's no way someone's going to say "I am a Mafia Grandmaster", "speak to me with respect, I deserve it, i am above you" unless they're putting it on, and I mean, look at that name.
Only constructive information he's given to town is calling out Eden for supposedly falling for a simple strat.
My read is that jesus is an unhelpful town, who has annoying posts to read- 'sick meme' 'residentsleeper'
Jesus, why are you putting such a big target on your back for someone to attack you? what do you gain?
Alur
Seems like good town to me. He's intent on solving the game, asks questions, answers questions asked of him, Isn't going crazy trying to turn people on one another, or attacking anyone too hard.
He seems to be frustrated at my lack of posting, understandable, I would be too. Sorry about that.
I like Alurs posts, He's towney, he's not obnoxious, he doesn't seem like he's putting on any sort of act. He also posted "Gonna play some dota or cs to relax". You KNOW someone's taking the game seriously when they swap to dota of all games to chill out.
Kuragari
Reationary to other people's posts, hasn't posted much in the way of solving the game, just spoke to other players.
He did say he wouldn't go into reads until later in the first day, but for someone with quite a few posts, not much has been said.
Not enough information on the guy to make a proper judgement. Slightly scummy, not enough to vote on.
darthfoley
Very town, posted a lot of constructive things, good attitude. I'm on a phone so it's hard to quote everything I want to touch on, but my number 1 town spot goes to this guy. He posts a lot and is vocal about his reads, and backs them up with other posts. I think he'll be useful to town later on, and if we have a doctor, you should consider putting this guy on your save list.
nooniansoong
My read is good-town, asks some good questions, spots inconsistencies, doesn't hop on other people's scum reads and back them up, tries to dissect them and point out any flaws, good for getting more information.
Trfel
Scum read, has a whole lot of posts just asking questions without contributing any information, a whole lot of words with not much to say.
Jumped on the voting for tumbleweed bandwagon simply because it's embarrassing the newbies caught tumble, and not Trfel himself? (Am I missing something here?)
My biggest reason for thinking Trfel is scum is #607 where he says he's trying very hard not to direct the thread, then proceeds to direct the hell out of the thread dissecting tumbleweed's filter, this results in tumbleweed being the current lynch target.
Maybe this is a sick town play and we're going to get rid of mafia on the first night, but I think, judging from his experience, Trfel is an experienced mafia player, and is scum trying to get a townie lynched on day 1.
from here on out my posts are going to be shorter, I'm getting a headache going over everything, this is my own fault for being so inactive at the start, there's so much content to wrap my head around.
Onegu
Seems scummy, lots of short very defensive answers, "Big post coming from me" was actually just a bunch of short reactions to other people's posts.
that being said, I disagree with several of his reads, especially Tea being mafia. that being said I do agree with his Trfel read.
I don't think he's scum enough to vote, but definitely enough to keep my eye on.
_MexicanAlien
Comes off as a noob at the start. I don't think he's scum, but he's not being very helpful to town, either. I disagree with his reads.
Eden
Seems town, nice long posts, decent contribution
Shapelog
Heck, man you've posted so much. Chill out a bit, think before you post. A lot of your posts are off-topic and it's not too helpful. I'm reading you as town for now but I'm going to keep a close eye on you from now on.
OKAY SO My top 3 for each Scum: Onegu, JesusIncarnate, Tfel Town: PMT, Darth, Alur Keep a close eye on: Shape, Tumble, Kuragari I'm going to refrain from voting for at least a little while, if I even vote at all. + Show Spoiler +we are allowed to abstain from voting, right? For now, please feel free to AMA, call me out, whatever. I'll be reading the thread a lot for at least the next few hours. Welcome to the thread! Hope you're getting caught up. I like your post, but I have a question. You mention that Onegu and Trfel are in your scum category. Do you think that they could be on a scum team together? If one flips mafia, will that change your opinion on the other?
He says he even likes the post. Remember this for later.
Eden Case
Darths follow up:
On January 28 2016 14:57 darthfoley wrote:
God damn it Eden. That post from Ikidomari has so many back doors on it now that I've reread it.
Shows that Darth didn't find anything heavily scummy till Eden point it out
On January 28 2016 15:01 darthfoley wrote:
Yea wtf how does JesusIncarnate get read as useless town and then get thrown in the scum pile right after? There are lots of serious logical inconsistencies with that post.
Parroting
On January 28 2016 15:07 darthfoley wrote:
Can it actually be that simple Eden? Wouldn't a mafia coach specifically coach against some of the stuff (e.g. noob card, "he's either town or mafia" reads, etc.) that Ikidomari posted?
Gives Ikidomari a Back door exit.
It is like they are trying to bail Ikindo out.
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Oh darths here. Sucks since I got to focus in this college class.
I read what he posted and talk to him if he is here when i get back.
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I got a Min to Comment.
On January 28 2016 23:52 darthfoley wrote:
I get your point Shapelog, but what I (and maybe Eden) are saying is that, if Ikidomari is actually mafia, we can just kill him tomorrow or the next day. He will undoubtedly make more slip ups and mistakes if his first post is the norm. I'm more interested in lynch scum who seems more dangerous to do things later in the game right now. Ikidomari could go either way for me because of what people have already said... others, I am much more confident on.
Now you want to give your scum partner a day till you have to bus him, so he can try to get town to believe him.
I can maybe understand it though from you as town, that you want big game scum out the window.
Let me sit on it.
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On January 29 2016 00:31 Ikidomari wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 00:26 _MexicanAlien wrote:On January 29 2016 00:16 Ikidomari wrote:
Hey guys, there's obviously a lot of heat on me right now, and I'm going to be around for about an hour or so before bed, if you'd like to ask me any questions feel free, if you want my thoughts on something let me know.
The next time I'll be active is my lunch break tomorrow (probably about 13-14 hours from the time of this post), and then after that will be when I get home from work (18-20 hours from this post).
I'll be as transparent as possible in my answers. You might want to show how darthfoley and eden1982 were not bailing you out or giving you backdoors. if you guys were a scum team you would ignore this point. Sure, Here's why we aren't a scum team. If I was mafia, I fucked up bad, real bad. What I did was a horrendous play for mafia, and if eden and darth were my teammates, if they had two brain cells to rub together they'd immediately throw me under the bus and distance themselves from me, not try and rescue me. Sure, they'd be playing from behind 1 man down, but it's a far better option than losing the game then and there. Put yourself in Mafia's shoes, if your ally shits the bed, do you help him clean it up, getting dirty in the process, or do you pretend you don't know the guy?
That depends on if they feel confident that they have the thread presence and enough town cred power to try to wave it. Which they do.
But since there was almost 17 hours left, this is a moot point.
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On January 29 2016 00:55 Alur wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 00:48 Kuragari42 wrote:On January 28 2016 15:38 Ikidomari wrote:
Here's my last point in defense for now. If I was mafia, I'm most afraid of Eden and Darth, and people in the thread know that.
If I survive being lynched today, who dies in the night will pretty much confirm whether or not I'm mafia / town, and I'm an easy vote for day 2. But.. I think that any mafia would consider NK'ing Eden, probably Darth as well. This really has little indication of your alignment. Not to mention that the doc in this game might change up the NK a bit. Rofl. What doc? How can you be sure this is setup A) or C)?
That is a scum slip if I ever saw it.
Also I responded to your question about Town cred.
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Actually that scum slip is ridiculously huge if he is scum and gets lynched.
Maybe I am wrong about my Tinfoil Team, Maybe one of Eden/Darth isn't scum and instead Kura is scum.
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EPT
