On December 12 2015 08:08 DarthPunk wrote: Since when did people start spamming gifs on TL. I'm just skimming some of your games Rels and like there is tons of gif spam in that personality game.
On December 12 2015 08:08 DarthPunk wrote: Since when did people start spamming gifs on TL. I'm just skimming some of your games Rels and like there is tons of gif spam in that personality game.
I don't like this post. It reads to me like "look I'm doing stuff" @DP Why did you do that and what did you find ?
On December 12 2015 13:58 DarthPunk wrote: OK rayn is town
To elaborate on this. I think that the read that he gave on Damdred was really un-obvious and made a heap of sense which are two things that I don't think that mafia are good at faking, on the surface at least and that usually don;t happen in the same read.
Another thing from DP I don't like. He says "rayn is town"; nobody questions him about it; 6 minutes later after rayn ignores this post, he posts an explanation. I could see him being scum waiting for someone to ask for his explanation, then posting it anyway.
On December 12 2015 15:05 Damdred wrote: I... Really like that rayn read on me (though I am biased). Its a really nice thought process one that I hadn't even thought of lol.
And I hope rayn feels better so we can catch the scum.
but I'm going to bed now. And tbh my prefered lynch so far is rels his not really staying around to chat or try to add on anything was disheartening.
On December 12 2015 15:18 Damdred wrote: Eh screw it I'm awake so I'll post.
Rs/Art go after Darth in what amounts to there opening post and follow up post. While I don't think its out of the scope of what they could do as scum going after dp so fast is something I don't really consider either of them to do.
It seems to me its more motivated at this instance coming from town trying to catch someone on a meta irregularity that they feel. It isn't quite the gorcha moment to total town read but it makes sense and fives me somewhat town feelings motive wise.
I don't know about that, they focused on one specific thing of the thread then quit the thread. I don't think it's scum indicative but I'm not seeing the town indicator
On December 12 2015 22:36 GreYMisT wrote: If I'm being honest I have only had time to look at a few past games, but from what I have seen Damdred seems town to me. In his town games he seems willing to talk about other people, whereas in mafia games he only seems to ask questions to people.
I'm not sure about Darthpunk. I would have probably answered his questions differently if I were him, but admittedly that doesn't really mean anything.
I don't have an opinion on anyone else quite yet. It's unusual at least for me, for Marv not to be super active early. But it is just a quarter into the day and he might have changed his marvy ways since I last saw him. In any case, I'll have more detailed opinions later.
I think GM is town. I think townies are more likely to admit they don't have an opinion on several people.
On December 12 2015 23:40 Damdred wrote: Eh its a tone read to an extent and trusting rayn at this juncture.
Plus some of what dp has said (while not outside his scum range) makes a lot of sense. Ie his response to my post on grey mist, and response to rsart seemed decently towny.
I will say he's gotten me before as scum so I'm pretty waffly at points.
rayn only said DP's agression is not something you can scumread him for though
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
1 - I explained why I thought that: I think townies are more likely to admit they have null reads, especially since there is only a few pages.
2 - yep - it has nothing to do with who they called out. Obviously if dp flips scum arsoultin is super likely town. But without association, I don't think what they did is enough to find them town.
3 - if left alone, scums will either hide between inactive or push mislynch on inactive. I push useless people to play so that can't happen
On December 13 2015 01:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i assure you you will not get townread for "too stupid/suicidal to be scum". So i suggest you stop if you are town.
Or I do what I want. Now how is me voting for Marv instead of dp when I have suspicions on dp scummy ?
On December 13 2015 01:23 Damdred wrote: Because you are basically wasteing your vote when you could be convincing the rest of the thread about Darth being scum?
I still want you to tell me like I'm five why Darth should be a hard scum read and lynch today.
I don't feel I'm wasting my vote though. I have nothing else than what I wrote earlier. If DP was a hard scum read I would be pushing him. I found weird that: - he mentionned explicitely reading my past games; the scum motivation here is pretend to do stuff, when that stuff is not helpful - he said he had a townread on rayn; rayn posted something; he explained his read. The scum motivation for this is to bait a question with a non explained read to appear townie; but when rayn didn't ask for an explanation, he felt compelled to give it anyway to not have an unexplained post in his filter. Arsoultin also have a scum meta read on him that I want to see rayn answers to.
On December 13 2015 01:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: I have already answered that meta read.
Rereading, this is fucking true.
On December 13 2015 01:10 RtaniSoul wrote: P.S. Thanks rayn! I'll take a look at your link...later? Maybe when I'm waiting at the airport to pick up Lex. Also, just to be clear, my point was the buddying and not the aggression...I am well aware that DP can be aggressive as either alignment, and we are both aware that Imperial is different, which is why I looked up the other town game (Avogadro, to be precise). So let me rephrase. Buddying without pushing anything early game is what caught our attention.
rayn already answered that specific point wasn't scum indicative, why are you restating it ?
On December 13 2015 01:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: I have already answered that meta read.
Rereading, this is fucking true.
On December 13 2015 01:10 RtaniSoul wrote: P.S. Thanks rayn! I'll take a look at your link...later? Maybe when I'm waiting at the airport to pick up Lex. Also, just to be clear, my point was the buddying and not the aggression...I am well aware that DP can be aggressive as either alignment, and we are both aware that Imperial is different, which is why I looked up the other town game (Avogadro, to be precise). So let me rephrase. Buddying without pushing anything early game is what caught our attention.
rayn already answered that specific point wasn't scum indicative, why are you restating it ?
Are you saying that its scum indicative of them?
Yep. They rephrased something rayn answered entirely already.
On December 12 2015 13:52 RtaniSoul wrote: *sanctioned message by both heads
We are seeking a third head. Please apply.
Unless your name is DP and your nose is firmly up everyone's ass already.
Carry on ^^
That's how he posts.
Game?
I've been mislynched once on this site, in large part because I failed to convince geript that DP was a skeezy scumbucket with a geript in his pocket. Artie remembers Imperial and remembers a more aggressive DP. I glanced through the town game before that just in case replacing in might have had an effect on DP's play, but no dice. Aggressive there right out the starting gate.
These are only a few games, but given they support the perception we already have...
Where you getting this from, rayn?
-waves at DP- Because pointing out that you're buddying people is definitely not worth mentioning or anything ^^ We up for a round two?
arsoul: "DP buddies people and is not very aggressive, contrary to what we remember"
On December 12 2015 13:52 RtaniSoul wrote: *sanctioned message by both heads
We are seeking a third head. Please apply.
Unless your name is DP and your nose is firmly up everyone's ass already.
Carry on ^^
That's how he posts.
Game?
I've been mislynched once on this site, in large part because I failed to convince geript that DP was a skeezy scumbucket with a geript in his pocket. Artie remembers Imperial and remembers a more aggressive DP. I glanced through the town game before that just in case replacing in might have had an effect on DP's play, but no dice. Aggressive there right out the starting gate.
These are only a few games, but given they support the perception we already have...
Where you getting this from, rayn?
-waves at DP- Because pointing out that you're buddying people is definitely not worth mentioning or anything ^^ We up for a round two?
This is the last game i remember playing with DarthPunk when we were both town. This is his filter in the game.
Basically i know DP is usually aggressive and i can see where you are coming from. Obviously it's nor out of the realm of possibilities he is mafia here, but i disagree in him not being "aggressive enough" makes him mafia. He treats different people differently, and i know for a fact he buddies to strong players (if you read the filter the "proof" is there).
Basically this game is filled with people who in my opinion do not respond well -- or at all -- to pressure, at least unfounded pressure (i mean situations where the game has went on for hours and there is not really anything scummy in thread -- disagree?). At the time you called him out, what in your opinion should he have done as town? Should he have questioned something? Should he have pressured something more? In my opinion, when i read the thread at that point, i didn't see anything wrong -- which is i, myself decided to comment on the only read i could be even semi-sure of.
Also bringing up Imperial is in my opinion a bit of a misjudgement (or what the fuck is the word). He replaced into a game on N3...... Of course there is going to be some reads he has rofl. If he hadn't any reads on a thread that is @ N3, he could just quit mafia. Comparing that game to this one (at 6 hours into the game with only 3 people properly even posting) is quite a stretch.
rayn: "DP buddying people and not being aggressive enough is not a reason to scumread him"
On December 13 2015 01:10 RtaniSoul wrote: P.S. Thanks rayn! I'll take a look at your link...later? Maybe when I'm waiting at the airport to pick up Lex. Also, just to be clear, my point was the buddying and not the aggression...I am well aware that DP can be aggressive as either alignment, and we are both aware that Imperial is different, which is why I looked up the other town game (Avogadro, to be precise). So let me rephrase. Buddying without pushing anything early game is what caught our attention.
Now ciao for realz ^^
arsoul: "TY rayn but let me raphrase: buddying without being aggressive is the weird thing".
On December 13 2015 01:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: I have already answered that meta read.
Rereading, this is fucking true.
On December 13 2015 01:10 RtaniSoul wrote: P.S. Thanks rayn! I'll take a look at your link...later? Maybe when I'm waiting at the airport to pick up Lex. Also, just to be clear, my point was the buddying and not the aggression...I am well aware that DP can be aggressive as either alignment, and we are both aware that Imperial is different, which is why I looked up the other town game (Avogadro, to be precise). So let me rephrase. Buddying without pushing anything early game is what caught our attention.
rayn already answered that specific point wasn't scum indicative, why are you restating it ?
Are you saying that its scum indicative of them?
Yep. They rephrased something rayn answered entirely already.
Actually they came to a different conclusion than i did so i would not call that "rephrasing".
Explain the post above then. Cause to me: - they say X - you say X is not scum indicative - they say "let me rephrase it: we meant X"
On December 13 2015 02:24 Damdred wrote: I'm still unsure why this makes him scum? Why is rephrasing a point that you think is strong (but they will check on) scum indicative. And I don't want to say why I think they rephrased anyway.
Cause it means they didn't read it carefully, when it was an answer to them. Why would they be "OK rayn but here it what we means: XXX" and rayn said previously to them "XXX don't make DP scum" ?
On December 12 2015 13:58 DarthPunk wrote: OK rayn is town
To elaborate on this. I think that the read that he gave on Damdred was really un-obvious and made a heap of sense which are two things that I don't think that mafia are good at faking, on the surface at least and that usually don;t happen in the same read.
Another thing from DP I don't like. He says "rayn is town"; nobody questions him about it; 6 minutes later after rayn ignores this post, he posts an explanation. I could see him being scum waiting for someone to ask for his explanation, then posting it anyway.
Just my posting style. I post in bits. Although I like the pressure. Keep it up!
rayn can you confirm this is usual so I don't have to meta him ?
On December 13 2015 08:32 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn I guess you would call this a 'tone' read or whatever, but I am pretty darn good at spotting a townie rayn and alot of what he says makes sense. HIs damdred read was godlike and hard to fake as I have said earlier. His questioning of Rels was also good in that it showed one of the tendencies that I can recall rayn having. That being that he loves to really comb through the things people are saying in order to find small inconsistencies or breakdowns of a normal thought Process.
But you don't have a read on Damdred after saying rayn's read is godlike ?
On December 13 2015 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: GreyMist
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: while reading, 2 stood out to me as interesting:
The first is in regards to Damdred/Rels. I felt OK about Dam at first, but it struck me as interesting the way he interacted with Rels when Rels votes Marv. He asks why Rels is policy voting someone when he has a scum read on someone else, a sentiment I have no real issue with. What strikes me as strange is the way Dam seems to play up what Rels is doing as a weird play. The interaction covers most of a page when it seemed like it really didn't need to. I am suspicious of players who have lengthy interactions with others while accomplishing nothing. In addition, after this happens, DP essentially does the exact same thing and yet no reaction from Damdred. This strikes me as odd and I'd like to hear damdred's thoights about DP's vote placement.
How is it scum indicative ? I'm one of the scumread of Damdred, it's normal he interrogates me on my actions.
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: The first has occurred recently- forgive me for not quoting at the moment - when Ryan said he was sure that there could not be scum between DP/Hydra/ and Rels And was "certain" there was scum between myself and Marv. To begin, I don't like when people categorize like this. I feel like it benefits mafia to arbitrarily put people into categories to empose their viewpoint on the town. That isn't the main reason I didn't like the post, however.
On the contrary, I think it's town indicative for rayn to share his thought process. It's only scum indicative if you can point how what he posted is not logical or deserves a scum agenda.
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: The problem I have is his sudden change in conviction. Notice before this post he is just asking my opinion, wanting to know what I think of him (I will address this later below). And then, literally the next post he is certain either I or Marv are scum. Also consider that Marv is a guy who has not been here!You cannot be certain that someone is mafia if they have not posted. So basically, Rayn is saying here that he is certain I am mafia. It is this change in attitude, this certainty, and this hiding of his opinion by including Marv in this pairing that aroused my suspicion.
He explained why he thought that. Can you point what is wrong or scum with his logic ?
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: First, the way he jumped onto Rels with Damdred seems a bit rushed and oppertunistic to me. As if he is testing the waters to see if he can get something rolling.
You seem to consider me town since apparently Damdred / rayn attacked me too easily. Why are you townreading me ?
On December 13 2015 08:32 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn I guess you would call this a 'tone' read or whatever, but I am pretty darn good at spotting a townie rayn and alot of what he says makes sense. HIs damdred read was godlike and hard to fake as I have said earlier. His questioning of Rels was also good in that it showed one of the tendencies that I can recall rayn having. That being that he loves to really comb through the things people are saying in order to find small inconsistencies or breakdowns of a normal thought Process.
But you don't have a read on Damdred after saying rayn's read is godlike ?
On December 13 2015 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: GreyMist
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
This smells like bullshit to me.
It's true it sounds like a bad excuse.
I am pretty sure I stated that I like Damdred In the thread based on his early game interactions. And I thought rayn also made a good point about Damdred. Should be pretty clear I don't want to lynch Damdred.
On December 13 2015 09:55 GreYMisT wrote: Also, here is some more food for thought. According to the post Marv will be mod killed if he fails to vote. This means we lay before us a choice. Option 1 is to vote Marv, allowing essentially a no lynch day 1 with information. Option number 2 is to let the mod kill happen, and go for double.
Don't know how you all feel about either option, Something to Regard if people start getting strong feelings about someone .
We do not gain a mislynch from a modkill. With a mislynch + NK we are at 3v2 LYLO tomorrow With a modkill + mafia lynch + NK we are at 3v1 MYLO tomorrow. With a modkill + mislynch + NK we lost.
On December 12 2015 13:58 DarthPunk wrote: OK rayn is town
To elaborate on this. I think that the read that he gave on Damdred was really un-obvious and made a heap of sense which are two things that I don't think that mafia are good at faking, on the surface at least and that usually don;t happen in the same read.
Another thing from DP I don't like. He says "rayn is town"; nobody questions him about it; 6 minutes later after rayn ignores this post, he posts an explanation. I could see him being scum waiting for someone to ask for his explanation, then posting it anyway.
On December 12 2015 22:36 GreYMisT wrote: If I'm being honest I have only had time to look at a few past games, but from what I have seen Damdred seems town to me. In his town games he seems willing to talk about other people, whereas in mafia games he only seems to ask questions to people.
I'm not sure about Darthpunk. I would have probably answered his questions differently if I were him, but admittedly that doesn't really mean anything.
I don't have an opinion on anyone else quite yet. It's unusual at least for me, for Marv not to be super active early. But it is just a quarter into the day and he might have changed his marvy ways since I last saw him. In any case, I'll have more detailed opinions later.
I think GM is town. I think townies are more likely to admit they don't have an opinion on several people.
Rels do you seriously think these are good basis for reads?
Yep I think they are small indicators. But I don't think GM is town anymore. DP I'm not sure, can you answer what I've asked you ?
On December 13 2015 09:55 GreYMisT wrote: Also, here is some more food for thought. According to the post Marv will be mod killed if he fails to vote. This means we lay before us a choice. Option 1 is to vote Marv, allowing essentially a no lynch day 1 with information. Option number 2 is to let the mod kill happen, and go for double.
Don't know how you all feel about either option, Something to Regard if people start getting strong feelings about someone .
We do not gain a mislynch from a modkill. With a mislynch + NK we are at 3v2 LYLO tomorrow With a modkill + mafia lynch + NK we are at 3v1 MYLO tomorrow. With a modkill + mislynch + NK we lost.
Why you assuming marv is gonna flip town?
Cause these are the scenarios where marv gets modkilled. I assume he won't get modkilled as scum.
On December 13 2015 09:55 GreYMisT wrote: Also, here is some more food for thought. According to the post Marv will be mod killed if he fails to vote. This means we lay before us a choice. Option 1 is to vote Marv, allowing essentially a no lynch day 1 with information. Option number 2 is to let the mod kill happen, and go for double.
Don't know how you all feel about either option, Something to Regard if people start getting strong feelings about someone .
We do not gain a mislynch from a modkill. With a mislynch + NK we are at 3v2 LYLO tomorrow With a modkill + mafia lynch + NK we are at 3v1 MYLO tomorrow. With a modkill + mislynch + NK we lost.
Why you assuming marv is gonna flip town?
Cause these are the scenarios where marv gets modkilled. I assume he won't get modkilled as scum.
You're right in theory it's possible for scum!marv to be modkilled; I don't think it's likely though. marv said to me he never missed a vote in his mafia career; if he's AFK and seemingly going to be modkilled, he's probably scum going to vote at the last second.
Marv still hasn't posted! Good, I don't have to read anything in the few minutes I have. See you all tomorrow, I'll have a lot more time than this weekend
Marv not voting me is town indicative. Damdred and rayn were townreads. So scum are between gm dp and rsoul I think. ##Unvote ##Vote arsoultin Did the minimal work while not being under fire.
On December 14 2015 06:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: The problem i see in marv's filter, while his posts look fine i can't believe he actually thinks -- if he read the thread as he said -- that the three people who are like mostly calling each other scum here in this game contain 2 mafia. Furthermore if he thinks this is the case, why the fuck does he not call me out for calling that impossible, or at least notice the post where i do so?
fuck it, i am back to marv is scum train. ##unvote ##vote marvellosity IF he was just too busy to read properly then it's sad, but i just don't think that's the case.
Arsoul is scum that I don't know why everyone is townreading Rayn might be omgus but I don't like this thing Gm is probably scum Here is what I think but I've not read anything that happened today
On December 14 2015 15:41 DarthPunk wrote: Rels Lol? Wtf?
I keep town reading him for his panics and his super fast switching/ tunnels. Anyone know if he could play that kind of scum game?
I thought you read some games of mine ? You didn't read any scum games ? I could do that as scum. But, WIFOM alert, I wouldn't if I was scum with marv.
On December 14 2015 15:41 DarthPunk wrote: Rels Lol? Wtf?
I keep town reading him for his panics and his super fast switching/ tunnels. Anyone know if he could play that kind of scum game?
I thought you read some games of mine ? You didn't read any scum games ? I could do that as scum. But, WIFOM alert, I wouldn't if I was scum with marv.
I skimmed some games. No scum games i think.
Who do you think looks best and who looks worst from the marv flip?
You and GM look the worst for switching off marv and not voting him again. And GM looks the worst of you two for not looking for scum during EOD, but posting stuff like "never switching off Rels" and "marv does not seem like the best lynch". That might change when I'm caught up ofc.
On December 12 2015 23:24 Damdred wrote: Cause you do things when town that are iteresting
But they didn't push that thing until rayn said it was DP's way of playing.
haha I totally misread that post. Sry Damdred p: TBF I have no idea how I have 4 pages of filter when I didn't do anything for the whole game. I totally understand that I was almost lynched.
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
Man rereading this, it sounds even more like the lamest excuse in the universe. That's exactly the kind of answer a mafia would give to look good. And it doesn't match up with his previous post:
On December 12 2015 22:36 GreYMisT wrote: If I'm being honest I have only had time to look at a few past games, but from what I have seen Damdred seems town to me. In his town games he seems willing to talk about other people, whereas in mafia games he only seems to ask questions to people.
I'm not sure about Darthpunk. I would have probably answered his questions differently if I were him, but admittedly that doesn't really mean anything.
I don't have an opinion on anyone else quite yet. It's unusual at least for me, for Marv not to be super active early. But it is just a quarter into the day and he might have changed his marvy ways since I last saw him. In any case, I'll have more detailed opinions later.
He didn't say "I have some opinions but I want to reread stuff / wait for more stuff to happen", he said "I don't have an opinion on anyone else quite yet". So in the later post, he changed his story from the previous post.
On December 13 2015 08:41 DarthPunk wrote: Oh about RSO just rephrasing the exact shit she just said and then saying it again. I am fairly sure she did that exact thing all the time in my last game with her. She was town then FWIW.
I still don't understand why rsoul would say that. rayn clearly stated in his post "DP cannot be scumread for XXX". Why would rsoul go "but rayn, let me rephrase: what we meant was XXX" ? rayn you mentionned rsoul could have a town reason to do that; what was it ?
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: while reading, 2 stood out to me as interesting:
The first is in regards to Damdred/Rels. I felt OK about Dam at first, but it struck me as interesting the way he interacted with Rels when Rels votes Marv. He asks why Rels is policy voting someone when he has a scum read on someone else, a sentiment I have no real issue with. What strikes me as strange is the way Dam seems to play up what Rels is doing as a weird play. The interaction covers most of a page when it seemed like it really didn't need to. I am suspicious of players who have lengthy interactions with others while accomplishing nothing. In addition, after this happens, DP essentially does the exact same thing and yet no reaction from Damdred. This strikes me as odd and I'd like to hear damdred's thoights about DP's vote placement.
How is it scum indicative ? I'm one of the scumread of Damdred, it's normal he interrogates me on my actions.
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: The first has occurred recently- forgive me for not quoting at the moment - when Ryan said he was sure that there could not be scum between DP/Hydra/ and Rels And was "certain" there was scum between myself and Marv. To begin, I don't like when people categorize like this. I feel like it benefits mafia to arbitrarily put people into categories to empose their viewpoint on the town. That isn't the main reason I didn't like the post, however.
On the contrary, I think it's town indicative for rayn to share his thought process. It's only scum indicative if you can point how what he posted is not logical or deserves a scum agenda.
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: The problem I have is his sudden change in conviction. Notice before this post he is just asking my opinion, wanting to know what I think of him (I will address this later below). And then, literally the next post he is certain either I or Marv are scum. Also consider that Marv is a guy who has not been here!You cannot be certain that someone is mafia if they have not posted. So basically, Rayn is saying here that he is certain I am mafia. It is this change in attitude, this certainty, and this hiding of his opinion by including Marv in this pairing that aroused my suspicion.
He explained why he thought that. Can you point what is wrong or scum with his logic ?
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: First, the way he jumped onto Rels with Damdred seems a bit rushed and oppertunistic to me. As if he is testing the waters to see if he can get something rolling.
You seem to consider me town since apparently Damdred / rayn attacked me too easily. Why are you townreading me ?
At that time you had yet to post anything game related. in addition, he technically wasnt scum reading you, you were in s a "??" category because you had not yet posted. Because of this, I inferred that he didnt actually have a scum read on you during that time.
Also I'm not townreading you. At this point i'm just trying to bring up things as I see them. Nothing in my analysis depends on one person or antother being mafia.
1 - you didn't answer why you thought rayn's thought process about being at least 1 scum between you / marv was scummy / wrong ? 2 - so you don't townread me, but rayn / damdred calling me out on me voting someone else than the person I have the most suspicions on is scummy ? I don't understand the thought process here. Why are you not considering the fact that they could be right ? Why is pressuring someone on something weird is scummy ?
See, i can't legit understand the arrows with the questionmarks.
You had said, after i had done those things that you do not have a read on me. Later on, when you express your scumread on me, part of the reasoning is based on the time BEFORE you said you had no read on me.
So, i can't really figure it out why you, as town, would say you don't have a read on me if i have already done something scummy. Or if you re-read and came to a different conclusion afterwards why did you not clearly point that out then?
I am talking about these things here:
First, the way he jumped onto Rels with Damdred seems a bit rushed and oppertunistic to me. As if he is testing the waters to see if he can get something rolling.
Finally, Ryan asking my read of him. This strikes me as odd as well because it appears as though he wants to draw some early fire for an easy opportunity to defend himself through activity. A question like "why didn't you analyze me?!" Has bearing on day 2, but not a quarter into day 1 when information is still being processed.
Both of these things happened before you made this post:
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote: I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
...where you literally state you do not have a read on me.
The rest of your case i consider answered properly because it is based on you misreading one of my posts, no?
Real quick, I think here lies our misunderstanding. I didn't say I had a null read on you. What I meant was that I had not analyzed your posts yet and would later. I didn't go from null read to my analysis, I went from literally no read to my analysis
That's a lie. That's true you said you reserved your analysis for later when rayn asked you about your read on him:
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote: I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
But that interrogation was created by that post, in which you clearly say you didn't have an opinion on him:
On December 12 2015 22:36 GreYMisT wrote: If I'm being honest I have only had time to look at a few past games, but from what I have seen Damdred seems town to me. In his town games he seems willing to talk about other people, whereas in mafia games he only seems to ask questions to people.
I'm not sure about Darthpunk. I would have probably answered his questions differently if I were him, but admittedly that doesn't really mean anything.
I don't have an opinion on anyone else quite yet. It's unusual at least for me, for Marv not to be super active early. But it is just a quarter into the day and he might have changed his marvy ways since I last saw him. In any case, I'll have more detailed opinions later.
On December 14 2015 19:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels can you further elaborate onto your last post. I don't really get what you are saying.
Why do you not understand ? Timeline: Time A: I don't have an opinion on anyone else (this includes rayn) => so null read on rayn Time B: rayn => "why do you not have an opinion on me ?" Time C: I didn't include thoughts on you 'cause I want more time to analyse you => contradicting what he said in time A Time D: I said I didn't post my opinion on you, not that I had a null read on you => contradicting what he said in time A
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: while reading, 2 stood out to me as interesting:
The first is in regards to Damdred/Rels. I felt OK about Dam at first, but it struck me as interesting the way he interacted with Rels when Rels votes Marv. He asks why Rels is policy voting someone when he has a scum read on someone else, a sentiment I have no real issue with. What strikes me as strange is the way Dam seems to play up what Rels is doing as a weird play. The interaction covers most of a page when it seemed like it really didn't need to. I am suspicious of players who have lengthy interactions with others while accomplishing nothing. In addition, after this happens, DP essentially does the exact same thing and yet no reaction from Damdred. This strikes me as odd and I'd like to hear damdred's thoights about DP's vote placement.
How is it scum indicative ? I'm one of the scumread of Damdred, it's normal he interrogates me on my actions.
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: The first has occurred recently- forgive me for not quoting at the moment - when Ryan said he was sure that there could not be scum between DP/Hydra/ and Rels And was "certain" there was scum between myself and Marv. To begin, I don't like when people categorize like this. I feel like it benefits mafia to arbitrarily put people into categories to empose their viewpoint on the town. That isn't the main reason I didn't like the post, however.
On the contrary, I think it's town indicative for rayn to share his thought process. It's only scum indicative if you can point how what he posted is not logical or deserves a scum agenda.
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: The problem I have is his sudden change in conviction. Notice before this post he is just asking my opinion, wanting to know what I think of him (I will address this later below). And then, literally the next post he is certain either I or Marv are scum. Also consider that Marv is a guy who has not been here!You cannot be certain that someone is mafia if they have not posted. So basically, Rayn is saying here that he is certain I am mafia. It is this change in attitude, this certainty, and this hiding of his opinion by including Marv in this pairing that aroused my suspicion.
He explained why he thought that. Can you point what is wrong or scum with his logic ?
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: First, the way he jumped onto Rels with Damdred seems a bit rushed and oppertunistic to me. As if he is testing the waters to see if he can get something rolling.
You seem to consider me town since apparently Damdred / rayn attacked me too easily. Why are you townreading me ?
At that time you had yet to post anything game related. in addition, he technically wasnt scum reading you, you were in s a "??" category because you had not yet posted. Because of this, I inferred that he didnt actually have a scum read on you during that time.
Also I'm not townreading you. At this point i'm just trying to bring up things as I see them. Nothing in my analysis depends on one person or antother being mafia.
1 - you didn't answer why you thought rayn's thought process about being at least 1 scum between you / marv was scummy / wrong ? 2 - so you don't townread me, but rayn / damdred calling me out on me voting someone else than the person I have the most suspicions on is scummy ? I don't understand the thought process here. Why are you not considering the fact that they could be right ? Why is pressuring someone on something weird is scummy ?
rayn what do you think of 2 ? 1, he said later he misread your post so that is solved.
Why everybody is townreading rsoul ? Their first posts were concentrated on one player, so it's easy to make. Their two last posts were OK. But they said they would read the link rayn sent them and didn't, while reiterating the same thing for the third time. They weren't here for EOD when they are two players, and I find this extremely weird. I was in my birthday party and I took time to see how the game was going at deadline; I don't understand why they couldn't take time to post at EOD when they are two players.
On December 14 2015 19:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels can you further elaborate onto your last post. I don't really get what you are saying.
Why do you not understand ? Timeline: Time A: I don't have an opinion on anyone else (this includes rayn) => so null read on rayn Time B: rayn => "why do you not have an opinion on me ?" Time C: I didn't include thoughts on you 'cause I want more time to analyse you => contradicting what he said in time A Time D: I said I didn't post my opinion on you, not that I had a null read on you => contradicting what he said in time A
He later on said he had no read on me because he hadn't analyzed my posts yet as you pointed out in (D). That in my opinion makes sense with (A). I don't see how (C) contradicts (A)?
Like, can you just quote all the posts based on this in a chronological order and point out what the contradiction you find is? I really don't see it.
Yep.
On December 12 2015 22:36 GreYMisT wrote: I don't have an opinion on anyone else quite yet. It's unusual at least for me, for Marv not to be super active early. But it is just a quarter into the day and he might have changed his marvy ways since I last saw him. In any case, I'll have more detailed opinions later.
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote: I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
Then there is the analysis on rayn. Then later:
On December 14 2015 03:17 GreYMisT wrote: Real quick, I think here lies our misunderstanding. I didn't say I had a null read on you. What I meant was that I had not analyzed your posts yet and would later. I didn't go from null read to my analysis, I went from literally no read to my analysis
OK you're right, I cannot prove the first post to be "null read on rayn". I think his excuse in the second post is weird though. Like it's a perfectly fine thing to not have a read on you at the tipme; I even think it's townie to admit it. But him finding an kinda weird explanation for not having an opinion yet is scummy to me; it feels like he has the need to defend himself against any criticism, to prove that his play at all points in time is perfectly logical.
On December 14 2015 19:33 Rels wrote: Why everybody is townreading rsoul ?
I don't think anyone is townreading them. However why are you scumreading DP?
Why did you not consider them for D1 lynch then ? And why were you townreading them after their first posts ? About DP: I don't scumread him. He was a townlean going into EOD. His EOD was NAI IMO. He unvoted marv then sheeped on me then left the thread; both alignement could do it; but if he's scum, him saying "I would sheep you rayn" after you say you want to switch off marv is certainly possible. It's possible he's town doing it too.
On December 14 2015 06:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: The problem i see in marv's filter, while his posts look fine i can't believe he actually thinks -- if he read the thread as he said -- that the three people who are like mostly calling each other scum here in this game contain 2 mafia. Furthermore if he thinks this is the case, why the fuck does he not call me out for calling that impossible, or at least notice the post where i do so?
fuck it, i am back to marv is scum train. ##unvote ##vote marvellosity IF he was just too busy to read properly then it's sad, but i just don't think that's the case.
On December 14 2015 06:48 raynpelikoneet wrote: To be perfectly clear, i am not going to vote for anyone other than marv or Rels here.
This guy is scum
On December 14 2015 06:49 Rels wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote rayn
On December 14 2015 06:50 Rels wrote: Rayn is acting like he's thinking about the lynches, but doesn't want to vote for anyone else than two people. That's not a townie mentality
On December 14 2015 19:33 Rels wrote: Why everybody is townreading rsoul ?
I don't think anyone is townreading them. However why are you scumreading DP?
Why did you not consider them for D1 lynch then ? And why were you townreading them after their first posts ? About DP: I don't scumread him. He was a townlean going into EOD. His EOD was NAI IMO. He unvoted marv then sheeped on me then left the thread; both alignement could do it; but if he's scum, him saying "I would sheep you rayn" after you say you want to switch off marv is certainly possible. It's possible he's town doing it too.
Do you seriously think DP is mafia when marv places his vote on him and refuses to consider you (who i am pushing) as a lynch? That would implicate that marv is more okay with DP getting lynched than getting lynched himself, and i honestly do not think even marv thinks he has a better chance of winning the game with scum lynched on D1 than DP.
I find it the most impossible answer that DP is mafia with marv -- after Damdred who hammered scum ofc.
Yep that's true. marv voting DP probably means DP is town.
On December 14 2015 19:54 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why did you not consider them for D1 lynch then ? And why were you townreading them after their first posts ?
Because they looked way better both of you and marv did (and Greymist) and there is only 2 mafia. Because their first posts sounded like something a townie would think, especially considering that is Artanis and rsoultin.
I'm not convinced of the last sentence. And I don't like how they weren't there for deadline, but I can't deny them voting their partner and gtfo is super unlikely. Do you think the last scum has to be between GM and I ?
On December 14 2015 19:54 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why did you not consider them for D1 lynch then ? And why were you townreading them after their first posts ?
Because they looked way better both of you and marv did (and Greymist) and there is only 2 mafia. Because their first posts sounded like something a townie would think, especially considering that is Artanis and rsoultin.
I'm not convinced of the last sentence. And I don't like how they weren't there for deadline, but I can't deny them voting their partner and gtfo is super unlikely. Do you think the last scum has to be between GM and I ?
I don't know yet. Most likely yes, but I would not count out the hydra. I believe there is a possibility they just afk'd because they thought marv is not coming back.
I don't know about that last sentence. If you're voting your partner, you would check at EOD what's happening just in case you can switch; and they already had a perfectly usable scum lean on me.
On December 14 2015 20:01 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels why did you townread marv at the EOD?
I thought he would vote for me, the easy mislynch, if he was scum.
So you didn't even read the posts he made at all? Do you realize marv was the easy lynch on D1? Noone else was.
I skimmed his filter at some point during the last minutes, but I didn't have the time to read it. Going out for lunch. I hope arsoul is town and comes back to prove it; them being AFK at deadline actually makes them town IMO. If that's the case, the game is won already. (=
On December 14 2015 21:00 RtaniSoul wrote: Rels seems more scummy, but at the same time, his play just doesn't seem like he can possibly expect to the win this game proceeding as he is. Maybe it's really just GM.
Please expand. I understand being scumread for POE, but I don't see how my play is scummy, let alone the scummiest of the game.
On December 14 2015 21:00 RtaniSoul wrote: Also, of y'all want another explanation on our DP read, ask, but we've already answered it.
If you're talking about your DP townread, it's the first time I'm hearing about it. If you're talking about your DP scumread, did you read rayn's thoughts on it ? Do you still feel like DP's budying + not very aggressive is a scum indicator for him ? Did you read the game rayn linked ?
On December 14 2015 21:00 RtaniSoul wrote: Rels seems more scummy, but at the same time, his play just doesn't seem like he can possibly expect to the win this game proceeding as he is. Maybe it's really just GM.
Please expand. I understand being scumread for POE, but I don't see how my play is scummy, let alone the scummiest of the game.
On December 14 2015 21:00 RtaniSoul wrote: Also, of y'all want another explanation on our DP read, ask, but we've already answered it.
If you're talking about your DP townread, it's the first time I'm hearing about it. If you're talking about your DP scumread, did you read rayn's thoughts on it ? Do you still feel like DP's budying + not very aggressive is a scum indicator for him ? Did you read the game rayn linked ?
We've had a strong townread on both Rayn (me more than art, but that's splitting hairs) and Damdred since very early in the game.
We just explained our DP townread, and even though we didn't mention it again in our reads post, we still feel that GM's approach to the game has been fairly townie in terms of tone and strategy. Damdred and Rayn as his main scumreads earlier, for example, is just not a winning play for scum when they're never getting lynched here.
To be honest, Rels, you just haven't written anything that has made us go "ah! that looks like a town Rels!" You seem to be gunning after whatever you can get. I described it as throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks. Lexy is fairly certain it's you, even though he did say that your EoD play looked like stream of consciousness to him. As I said earlier, if you and marv are scum together there's literally nowhere you can go. The only thing giving me pause is you didn't buss marv there which you should have as scum partners, but frankly you should have anyway. That and the townread on us, which is right, but really isn't to your advantage if you're scum.
OK so you scumread me by POE, 'cause others are townier than I am.
On December 14 2015 23:11 RtaniSoul wrote: As for your DP questions, he's gotten more aggressive and honestly no, we didn't read the link. First we were travelling, then we got distracted, then we got sick and didn't care. Like, honestly I was buying groceries so we didn't have to go out to eat and we thought the deadline was an hour later.
But also to be honest, since we're townreading rayn, we accepted what he said anyway. Our phrasing may have been bad. We didn't feel like DP was really scumhunting, but it doesn't really look that way anymore and we don't think it matters anyway given EoD.
If you accepted what rayn said, why did you repeat here:
On December 13 2015 01:10 RtaniSoul wrote: P.S. Thanks rayn! I'll take a look at your link...later? Maybe when I'm waiting at the airport to pick up Lex. Also, just to be clear, my point was the buddying and not the aggression...I am well aware that DP can be aggressive as either alignment, and we are both aware that Imperial is different, which is why I looked up the other town game (Avogadro, to be precise). So let me rephrase. Buddying without pushing anything early game is what caught our attention.
And here:
On December 14 2015 00:15 RtaniSoul wrote: About the reiteration Our concern is essentially what we're outlining below. Not the fact that DP is buddying, or that he's not aggressive in isolation, but that he's a non-entity. Those are distinctly different in our minds than saying oh look! DP is buddying people! He must be scum! Or DP is not being aggressive enough! He must be scum! It is more of an overall feel for his presence (or lack thereof) in the thread.
why you scumread DP ? rayn's post was very clear that this exact thing (buddying without being too aggressive) was not scum indicative for him.
On December 12 2015 13:52 RtaniSoul wrote: *sanctioned message by both heads
We are seeking a third head. Please apply.
Unless your name is DP and your nose is firmly up everyone's ass already.
Carry on ^^
That's how he posts.
Game?
I've been mislynched once on this site, in large part because I failed to convince geript that DP was a skeezy scumbucket with a geript in his pocket. Artie remembers Imperial and remembers a more aggressive DP. I glanced through the town game before that just in case replacing in might have had an effect on DP's play, but no dice. Aggressive there right out the starting gate.
These are only a few games, but given they support the perception we already have...
Where you getting this from, rayn?
-waves at DP- Because pointing out that you're buddying people is definitely not worth mentioning or anything ^^ We up for a round two?
This is the last game i remember playing with DarthPunk when we were both town. This is his filter in the game.
Basically i know DP is usually aggressive and i can see where you are coming from. Obviously it's nor out of the realm of possibilities he is mafia here, but i disagree in him not being "aggressive enough" makes him mafia.He treats different people differently, and i know for a fact he buddies to strong players (if you read the filter the "proof" is there).
Basically this game is filled with people who in my opinion do not respond well -- or at all -- to pressure, at least unfounded pressure (i mean situations where the game has went on for hours and there is not really anything scummy in thread -- disagree?). At the time you called him out, what in your opinion should he have done as town? Should he have questioned something? Should he have pressured something more? In my opinion, when i read the thread at that point, i didn't see anything wrong -- which is i, myself decided to comment on the only read i could be even semi-sure of.
Also bringing up Imperial is in my opinion a bit of a misjudgement (or what the fuck is the word). He replaced into a game on N3...... Of course there is going to be some reads he has rofl. If he hadn't any reads on a thread that is @ N3, he could just quit mafia. Comparing that game to this one (at 6 hours into the game with only 3 people properly even posting) is quite a stretch.
What rayn actually said, Rels. He says our read based on aggression is NAI and that DP buddies regardless. That's probably true and we see no reason for rayn to lie to us, given we don't have as much experience with DP.
Now, we didn't like that he didn't seem to be scumhunting and used the buddying and lack of aggression as an example. In the last post you quoted, you missed the salient point. We felt that DP was a non-entity in the thread. That goes beyond buzzwords like "buddying" or "aggression," don't you think?
OK, so I missed it on your last post, he was potential scum for being a non-entity.
On December 14 2015 23:39 RtaniSoul wrote: In the end, we trusted rayn that buddying and lack of aggression alone doesn't make DP scum and couldn't be assed to do a meta dive.
This has nothing to do with being a non-entity, so I don't understand why you changed your mind ?
On December 13 2015 08:32 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn I guess you would call this a 'tone' read or whatever, but I am pretty darn good at spotting a townie rayn and alot of what he says makes sense. HIs damdred read was godlike and hard to fake as I have said earlier. His questioning of Rels was also good in that it showed one of the tendencies that I can recall rayn having. That being that he loves to really comb through the things people are saying in order to find small inconsistencies or breakdowns of a normal thought Process.
But you don't have a read on Damdred after saying rayn's read is godlike ?
On December 13 2015 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: GreyMist
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
This smells like bullshit to me.
It's true it sounds like a bad excuse.
That agreement with DP at the end strikes me as really weird, but I dont know why. Maybe its becuase its really just meaningless, he doesnt use the time or space to push me or ask a question, and there really is no followup along this line from him.
and then there is a possible overreaction becuase i mentioned his name in this post:
On December 13 2015 08:32 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn I guess you would call this a 'tone' read or whatever, but I am pretty darn good at spotting a townie rayn and alot of what he says makes sense. HIs damdred read was godlike and hard to fake as I have said earlier. His questioning of Rels was also good in that it showed one of the tendencies that I can recall rayn having. That being that he loves to really comb through the things people are saying in order to find small inconsistencies or breakdowns of a normal thought Process.
But you don't have a read on Damdred after saying rayn's read is godlike ?
On December 13 2015 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: GreyMist
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
This smells like bullshit to me.
It's true it sounds like a bad excuse.
prompting him to 3rd party defend rayn. maybe im reaching but I'd be ok with a rels lynch if thats the play.
Can you expand on to how I 3rd party defend rayn here ? I assume you quoted the wrong post and you meant this one:
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: while reading, 2 stood out to me as interesting:
The first is in regards to Damdred/Rels. I felt OK about Dam at first, but it struck me as interesting the way he interacted with Rels when Rels votes Marv. He asks why Rels is policy voting someone when he has a scum read on someone else, a sentiment I have no real issue with. What strikes me as strange is the way Dam seems to play up what Rels is doing as a weird play. The interaction covers most of a page when it seemed like it really didn't need to. I am suspicious of players who have lengthy interactions with others while accomplishing nothing. In addition, after this happens, DP essentially does the exact same thing and yet no reaction from Damdred. This strikes me as odd and I'd like to hear damdred's thoights about DP's vote placement.
How is it scum indicative ? I'm one of the scumread of Damdred, it's normal he interrogates me on my actions.
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: The first has occurred recently- forgive me for not quoting at the moment - when Ryan said he was sure that there could not be scum between DP/Hydra/ and Rels And was "certain" there was scum between myself and Marv. To begin, I don't like when people categorize like this. I feel like it benefits mafia to arbitrarily put people into categories to empose their viewpoint on the town. That isn't the main reason I didn't like the post, however.
On the contrary, I think it's town indicative for rayn to share his thought process. It's only scum indicative if you can point how what he posted is not logical or deserves a scum agenda.
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: The problem I have is his sudden change in conviction. Notice before this post he is just asking my opinion, wanting to know what I think of him (I will address this later below). And then, literally the next post he is certain either I or Marv are scum. Also consider that Marv is a guy who has not been here!You cannot be certain that someone is mafia if they have not posted. So basically, Rayn is saying here that he is certain I am mafia. It is this change in attitude, this certainty, and this hiding of his opinion by including Marv in this pairing that aroused my suspicion.
He explained why he thought that. Can you point what is wrong or scum with his logic ?
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: First, the way he jumped onto Rels with Damdred seems a bit rushed and oppertunistic to me. As if he is testing the waters to see if he can get something rolling.
You seem to consider me town since apparently Damdred / rayn attacked me too easily. Why are you townreading me ?
Why is GM townie for scumreading Damdred & rayn, when he dropped these scumreads at the most opportunistic time (deadline) ?
You agreed with Damdred & rayn probing me concerning the marv vote here:
On December 14 2015 00:15 RtaniSoul wrote: Then there was the weird marv vote that also got pinged out by Rayn and Damdred. In the case of Marv being mafia, it gives Rels an excuse to be on him early whilst actually being able to switch to DP as soon as Marv posts.
GM found Damdred scummy about the way Damdred probed me concerning the marv vote:
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: The first is in regards to Damdred/Rels. I felt OK about Dam at first, but it struck me as interesting the way he interacted with Rels when Rels votes Marv. He asks why Rels is policy voting someone when he has a scum read on someone else, a sentiment I have no real issue with. What strikes me as strange is the way Dam seems to play up what Rels is doing as a weird play. The interaction covers most of a page when it seemed like it really didn't need to. I am suspicious of players who have lengthy interactions with others while accomplishing nothing. In addition, after this happens, DP essentially does the exact same thing and yet no reaction from Damdred. This strikes me as odd and I'd like to hear damdred's thoights about DP's vote placement.
Why do you townread GM for attacking Damdred because Damdred did something you agreed with ?
Why is GM townie for scumreading Damdred & rayn, when he dropped these scumreads at the most opportunistic time (deadline) ?
You agreed with Damdred & rayn probing me concerning the marv vote here:
On December 14 2015 00:15 RtaniSoul wrote: Then there was the weird marv vote that also got pinged out by Rayn and Damdred. In the case of Marv being mafia, it gives Rels an excuse to be on him early whilst actually being able to switch to DP as soon as Marv posts.
GM found Damdred scummy about the way Damdred probed me concerning the marv vote:
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: The first is in regards to Damdred/Rels. I felt OK about Dam at first, but it struck me as interesting the way he interacted with Rels when Rels votes Marv. He asks why Rels is policy voting someone when he has a scum read on someone else, a sentiment I have no real issue with. What strikes me as strange is the way Dam seems to play up what Rels is doing as a weird play. The interaction covers most of a page when it seemed like it really didn't need to. I am suspicious of players who have lengthy interactions with others while accomplishing nothing. In addition, after this happens, DP essentially does the exact same thing and yet no reaction from Damdred. This strikes me as odd and I'd like to hear damdred's thoights about DP's vote placement.
Why do you townread GM for attacking Damdred because Damdred did something you agreed with ?
You're right. If we'd townread GM for attacking Damdred specifically for that reason, rather than because pushing damdred and rayn is a high-risk, low-reward play with scum marv afk...that would be weird.
Your reason for townreading GM isn't good then. It's "scum wouldn't do that!" It's similar for your reason for townreading me. "scum!Rels wouldn't vote someone else than marv at EOD!" They're weak.
@rayn: I'm not convinced by that. The moment marv came back to the thread, he had one post stating "marv you're probably still scum", then found weird things in my filter and voted me with you all, then refused to switch back to marv even though he stated marv's posting spree wasn't alignement indicative.
Why is GM townie for scumreading Damdred & rayn, when he dropped these scumreads at the most opportunistic time (deadline) ?
You agreed with Damdred & rayn probing me concerning the marv vote here:
On December 14 2015 00:15 RtaniSoul wrote: Then there was the weird marv vote that also got pinged out by Rayn and Damdred. In the case of Marv being mafia, it gives Rels an excuse to be on him early whilst actually being able to switch to DP as soon as Marv posts.
GM found Damdred scummy about the way Damdred probed me concerning the marv vote:
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: The first is in regards to Damdred/Rels. I felt OK about Dam at first, but it struck me as interesting the way he interacted with Rels when Rels votes Marv. He asks why Rels is policy voting someone when he has a scum read on someone else, a sentiment I have no real issue with. What strikes me as strange is the way Dam seems to play up what Rels is doing as a weird play. The interaction covers most of a page when it seemed like it really didn't need to. I am suspicious of players who have lengthy interactions with others while accomplishing nothing. In addition, after this happens, DP essentially does the exact same thing and yet no reaction from Damdred. This strikes me as odd and I'd like to hear damdred's thoights about DP's vote placement.
Why do you townread GM for attacking Damdred because Damdred did something you agreed with ?
You're right. If we'd townread GM for attacking Damdred specifically for that reason, rather than because pushing damdred and rayn is a high-risk, low-reward play with scum marv afk...that would be weird.
Your reason for townreading GM isn't good then. It's "scum wouldn't do that!" It's similar for your reason for townreading me. "scum!Rels wouldn't vote someone else than marv at EOD!" They're weak.
If those were our only reasons, then yes, they would be weak.
Also, rayn's reasons for townreading GM are excellent lol ><
You've just said: You're right. If we'd townread GM for attacking Damdred specifically for that reason, rather than because pushing damdred and rayn is a high-risk, low-reward play with scum marv afk...that would be weird. in defense of another question.
On December 15 2015 00:53 Rels wrote: @rayn: I'm not convinced by that. The moment marv came back to the thread, he had one post stating "marv you're probably still scum", then found weird things in my filter and voted me with you all, then refused to switch back to marv even though he stated marv's posting spree wasn't alignement indicative.
I literally just quoted four posts where he cast doubt on marv after marv came back to the thread.... In the end you can make the last argument you just did, but for anyone else it's not legit because if YOU are scum, then Greymist was JUST as right as everyone voting for marv.
So yes, until your alignment is confirmed, that is WIFOM.
So if I'm town what you've just said doesn't mean anything anymore ?
On December 15 2015 00:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: And for the record Rels, your EOD is pure shit in comparison to Greymist's... But i don't wanna be a dick so i am trying to look at it objectively.
If you don't wanna be a dick stop being a fucking dick. My EOD is not pure shit my EOD is me checking the thread moments before being lynched. You are bad for almost lynching me because marv posted for 10 minutes, when arsoul was AFK and GM "tried" to resist the switch, then found 2 weird things in my filter (one being not scum indicative and one that I will expand on when he answers), switched to me, then really resist the switch back to marv.
On December 14 2015 06:45 Rels wrote: Marv not voting me is town indicative. Damdred and rayn were townreads. So scum are between gm dp and rsoul I think. ##Unvote ##Vote arsoultin Did the minimal work while not being under fire.
Real fast while I figure shit out. Is this the only reason you had for not voting marv? becuase its the only one I see.
1) I dont understand the question 2) it looks like you are panicing and not trying to actually find scum. A town player in that situation would try to help and get the vote off of him, you said "shut up scum" voted rayn, realized that wasnt happening, and voted off. 3) and I think i might have misquoted as you said. I see it as a 3rd party defense because I posted suspicions of ryan, and you came in and broke down the post instead of waiting to see how rayn would react to it, like I would assume a town would who wants more information.
1. You said that about rayn: First, the way he jumped onto Rels with Damdred seems a bit rushed and oppertunistic to me. As if he is testing the waters to see if he can get something rolling. Then you said you didn't have a read on me atm. How can rayn be opportunisticly jumping on me if you don't townread me ? 2. OK. 3. That is a problem. You mentionned that you misread a rayn's post here, and thus all this part of your attack on rayn was bad:
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: First I will say that, while I find some conduct of Ryan suspicious, this results from inconsistencies in his behavior. I thought a lot of what he was doing seemed towny, however there are a few things that give me pause.
The first has occurred recently- forgive me for not quoting at the moment - when Ryan said he was sure that there could not be scum between DP/Hydra/ and Rels And was "certain" there was scum between myself and Marv. To begin, I don't like when people categorize like this. I feel like it benefits mafia to arbitrarily put people into categories to empose their viewpoint on the town. That isn't the main reason I didn't like the post, however.
I never said there could not be scum between them. I said i think there is no way BOTH of the scum are between them. I provided analysis on why i reached to the conclusion. I am not arbitary putting people into categories, if you think my analysis is incorrect, please argue about why they are incorrect instead of just creating a narrative on the conclusion.
The problem I have is his sudden change in conviction. Notice before this post he is just asking my opinion, wanting to know what I think of him (I will address this later below). And then, literally the next post he is certain either I or Marv are scum. Also consider that Marv is a guy who has not been here!You cannot be certain that someone is mafia if they have not posted. So basically, Rayn is saying here that he is certain I am mafia. It is this change in attitude, this certainty, and this hiding of his opinion by including Marv in this pairing that aroused my suspicion.
I am not saying it is certain you are mafia. In fact i am far more sure of marv being scum at this point based purely on the fact that he well knows the game has started and has decided to not post anything at all. The conclusion that at least one of you / marv has to be mafia for me is completely logical based on the analysis on other people -- basically it is due to PoE. Again, if you do not agree with this, please point out where i am wrong in my analysis. Then we have something to argue about.
Tbf, you can't just say something is scummy / wrong without actually explaining why it is that way. I feel like i have provided my thought process behind every conclusion i have made in this game -- so it would only be natural for you to actually try to disprove my conclusions if you attack my arguments, no?
Finally, I thought back to Ryan's other posts. They all seemed very towny so I thought to myself: "maybe I'm just chainsaw ing Ryan here, creating a read on him out of spite." Then I noticed 2 minor things which makes me think, perhaps, he could be mafia.
First, the way he jumped onto Rels with Damdred seems a bit rushed and oppertunistic to me. As if he is testing the waters to see if he can get something rolling.
Again, i have already said why i think this is the case. Why is my (and Damdred's) "jump" on Rels "rushed and oppertunistic". I found out Rels' thought process illogical and the things he posted didn't match up with the conclusions he ended up with. I wanted him to elaborate further, and i don't think "that going nowhere" is my fault, since Rels' answer was basically "yeah that's what i think".
Finally, Ryan asking my read of him. This strikes me as odd as well because it appears as though he wants to draw some early fire for an easy opportunity to defend himself through activity. A question like "why didn't you analyze me?!" Has bearing on day 2, but not a quarter into day 1 when information is still being processed.
There are my current thoughts, more to come.
In my opinion this has bearing when you analyze every single other player who has posted that far in the game. I consider it weird because if you are mafia you would either: 1) correctly call me town -- in which case it hinders your mislynch possibilities 2) incorrectly call me mafia -- in which case your logic is not sound in the first place and someone can catch you for it
Furthermore at some point you were saying you didn't have a read on me. But around half of your case (idk.. is this a case?) is based on the timeline when you didn't have a read on me, and is also basically based on everything i did during that time.. How is it possible both of your statements are correct?
1) I missread your first point then, my mistake
2) my issue with your analysis of me being mafia was not the fact that you think so, but the fact you admit it is only based on process of elimination. It is easy for mafia to point out how people are town and then say "well by process of elimination this person has to be mafia." It is far harder for mafia to actually find reasons that a town player is scummy. I like town hunting and using process of elimination to know who to focus on, but that cannot be the main support you have behind someone being scum. At least not on day 1.
3) I didn't go into great detail because I dont think you are for sure scum, just that I was suspicious of some of your actions. If I thought you were the lynch today trust me, there would be much more reasoning. Nevertheless, I thought the reason behind my suspicion was fairly straightforward. Your actions looked to me like a mafia setting up tomorrows misslynch, and not trying to get something done. Thats just what I see.
Finally, I dont really understand what you are saying at the end there, but I only posted on 2 players who I was able to analyize fairly quickly, and saved you for later. I am under no obligation to mention every player in the game when I post about someone but you seem to think that I am, at least about you. I think this is weird. I think this is weird becuase, Town rayn would only care about my opinion of him if he wants to see how I conduct my analysis or wants me to give a bearing on how something has gone in the game. This game had only been going on for a page or two at this point so there was nothing pressing to analyze, not a lot of content that needed commenting on, and its completly understandable that people are gathering their thoughts.
I therefore think it is more likely that scum ryan would want me to analyze him early. A scum player can survive day one by posting a lot, and basically using that presence to get people to townread him early. When I analyzied two players and didnt analyize ryan, a scum ryan would be a bit worried that his plan to be percieved as town through activity has failed to some degree. I see this request to "analyize me!" as a very low risk attempt to get people to town read him. Basically there is a very small benefit to doing this as town, but a low risk and high reward to do it as scum.
On December 13 2015 08:32 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn I guess you would call this a 'tone' read or whatever, but I am pretty darn good at spotting a townie rayn and alot of what he says makes sense. HIs damdred read was godlike and hard to fake as I have said earlier. His questioning of Rels was also good in that it showed one of the tendencies that I can recall rayn having. That being that he loves to really comb through the things people are saying in order to find small inconsistencies or breakdowns of a normal thought Process.
But you don't have a read on Damdred after saying rayn's read is godlike ?
On December 13 2015 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: GreyMist
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
This smells like bullshit to me.
It's true it sounds like a bad excuse.
prompting him to 3rd party defend rayn. maybe im reaching but I'd be ok with a rels lynch if thats the play.
Since you admit yourself you misread a post, I don't understand why you think me questionning your logic on attacking rayn is a 3rd party defense rather than me finding something weird on your posts. Do you have an explanation ?
On December 15 2015 01:11 GreYMisT wrote: 3) and I think i might have misquoted as you said. I see it as a 3rd party defense because I posted suspicions of ryan, and you came in and broke down the post instead of waiting to see how rayn would react to it, like I would assume a town would who wants more information.
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: First I will say that, while I find some conduct of Ryan suspicious, this results from inconsistencies in his behavior. I thought a lot of what he was doing seemed towny, however there are a few things that give me pause.
The first has occurred recently- forgive me for not quoting at the moment - when Ryan said he was sure that there could not be scum between DP/Hydra/ and Rels And was "certain" there was scum between myself and Marv. To begin, I don't like when people categorize like this. I feel like it benefits mafia to arbitrarily put people into categories to empose their viewpoint on the town. That isn't the main reason I didn't like the post, however.
I never said there could not be scum between them. I said i think there is no way BOTH of the scum are between them. I provided analysis on why i reached to the conclusion. I am not arbitary putting people into categories, if you think my analysis is incorrect, please argue about why they are incorrect instead of just creating a narrative on the conclusion.
The problem I have is his sudden change in conviction. Notice before this post he is just asking my opinion, wanting to know what I think of him (I will address this later below). And then, literally the next post he is certain either I or Marv are scum. Also consider that Marv is a guy who has not been here!You cannot be certain that someone is mafia if they have not posted. So basically, Rayn is saying here that he is certain I am mafia. It is this change in attitude, this certainty, and this hiding of his opinion by including Marv in this pairing that aroused my suspicion.
I am not saying it is certain you are mafia. In fact i am far more sure of marv being scum at this point based purely on the fact that he well knows the game has started and has decided to not post anything at all. The conclusion that at least one of you / marv has to be mafia for me is completely logical based on the analysis on other people -- basically it is due to PoE. Again, if you do not agree with this, please point out where i am wrong in my analysis. Then we have something to argue about.
Tbf, you can't just say something is scummy / wrong without actually explaining why it is that way. I feel like i have provided my thought process behind every conclusion i have made in this game -- so it would only be natural for you to actually try to disprove my conclusions if you attack my arguments, no?
Finally, I thought back to Ryan's other posts. They all seemed very towny so I thought to myself: "maybe I'm just chainsaw ing Ryan here, creating a read on him out of spite." Then I noticed 2 minor things which makes me think, perhaps, he could be mafia.
First, the way he jumped onto Rels with Damdred seems a bit rushed and oppertunistic to me. As if he is testing the waters to see if he can get something rolling.
Again, i have already said why i think this is the case. Why is my (and Damdred's) "jump" on Rels "rushed and oppertunistic". I found out Rels' thought process illogical and the things he posted didn't match up with the conclusions he ended up with. I wanted him to elaborate further, and i don't think "that going nowhere" is my fault, since Rels' answer was basically "yeah that's what i think".
Finally, Ryan asking my read of him. This strikes me as odd as well because it appears as though he wants to draw some early fire for an easy opportunity to defend himself through activity. A question like "why didn't you analyze me?!" Has bearing on day 2, but not a quarter into day 1 when information is still being processed.
There are my current thoughts, more to come.
In my opinion this has bearing when you analyze every single other player who has posted that far in the game. I consider it weird because if you are mafia you would either: 1) correctly call me town -- in which case it hinders your mislynch possibilities 2) incorrectly call me mafia -- in which case your logic is not sound in the first place and someone can catch you for it
Furthermore at some point you were saying you didn't have a read on me. But around half of your case (idk.. is this a case?) is based on the timeline when you didn't have a read on me, and is also basically based on everything i did during that time.. How is it possible both of your statements are correct?
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: while reading, 2 stood out to me as interesting:
The first is in regards to Damdred/Rels. I felt OK about Dam at first, but it struck me as interesting the way he interacted with Rels when Rels votes Marv. He asks why Rels is policy voting someone when he has a scum read on someone else, a sentiment I have no real issue with. What strikes me as strange is the way Dam seems to play up what Rels is doing as a weird play. The interaction covers most of a page when it seemed like it really didn't need to. I am suspicious of players who have lengthy interactions with others while accomplishing nothing. In addition, after this happens, DP essentially does the exact same thing and yet no reaction from Damdred. This strikes me as odd and I'd like to hear damdred's thoights about DP's vote placement.
How is it scum indicative ? I'm one of the scumread of Damdred, it's normal he interrogates me on my actions.
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: The first has occurred recently- forgive me for not quoting at the moment - when Ryan said he was sure that there could not be scum between DP/Hydra/ and Rels And was "certain" there was scum between myself and Marv. To begin, I don't like when people categorize like this. I feel like it benefits mafia to arbitrarily put people into categories to empose their viewpoint on the town. That isn't the main reason I didn't like the post, however.
On the contrary, I think it's town indicative for rayn to share his thought process. It's only scum indicative if you can point how what he posted is not logical or deserves a scum agenda.
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: The problem I have is his sudden change in conviction. Notice before this post he is just asking my opinion, wanting to know what I think of him (I will address this later below). And then, literally the next post he is certain either I or Marv are scum. Also consider that Marv is a guy who has not been here!You cannot be certain that someone is mafia if they have not posted. So basically, Rayn is saying here that he is certain I am mafia. It is this change in attitude, this certainty, and this hiding of his opinion by including Marv in this pairing that aroused my suspicion.
He explained why he thought that. Can you point what is wrong or scum with his logic ?
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: First, the way he jumped onto Rels with Damdred seems a bit rushed and oppertunistic to me. As if he is testing the waters to see if he can get something rolling.
You seem to consider me town since apparently Damdred / rayn attacked me too easily. Why are you townreading me ?
On December 15 2015 01:34 GreYMisT wrote: Ok I see now, I didnt misquote, just didnt format the best way. the "3rd party defend" statement that I said referred to the same one you quoted, and my thoughts were based on that.
On December 13 2015 08:32 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn I guess you would call this a 'tone' read or whatever, but I am pretty darn good at spotting a townie rayn and alot of what he says makes sense. HIs damdred read was godlike and hard to fake as I have said earlier. His questioning of Rels was also good in that it showed one of the tendencies that I can recall rayn having. That being that he loves to really comb through the things people are saying in order to find small inconsistencies or breakdowns of a normal thought Process.
But you don't have a read on Damdred after saying rayn's read is godlike ?
On December 13 2015 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: GreyMist
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
On December 15 2015 01:34 GreYMisT wrote: Ok I see now, I didnt misquote, just didnt format the best way. the "3rd party defend" statement that I said referred to the same one you quoted, and my thoughts were based on that.
So you mean it referred to this ?
On December 13 2015 19:43 Rels wrote:
On December 13 2015 08:32 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn I guess you would call this a 'tone' read or whatever, but I am pretty darn good at spotting a townie rayn and alot of what he says makes sense. HIs damdred read was godlike and hard to fake as I have said earlier. His questioning of Rels was also good in that it showed one of the tendencies that I can recall rayn having. That being that he loves to really comb through the things people are saying in order to find small inconsistencies or breakdowns of a normal thought Process.
But you don't have a read on Damdred after saying rayn's read is godlike ?
On December 13 2015 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: GreyMist
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
This smells like bullshit to me.
It's true it sounds like a bad excuse.
I dont think this is getting us anywhere, but ill try to make this clear for you. And this is the last I'll discuss this for now.
I was pointing out a connection between your saying "sounds like a bad excuse" when i made a comment about ryan, and the later post you did commenting on my post about rayn. "Prompting" was probably the incorrect word to use in that case.
See, I still have a little bit of a problem. 'cause here is where you attacked my post saying it was a 3rd party defense of rayn:
On December 14 2015 05:46 GreYMisT wrote: I found 2 things about rels. first this post sticks out to me:
On December 13 2015 08:32 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn I guess you would call this a 'tone' read or whatever, but I am pretty darn good at spotting a townie rayn and alot of what he says makes sense. HIs damdred read was godlike and hard to fake as I have said earlier. His questioning of Rels was also good in that it showed one of the tendencies that I can recall rayn having. That being that he loves to really comb through the things people are saying in order to find small inconsistencies or breakdowns of a normal thought Process.
But you don't have a read on Damdred after saying rayn's read is godlike ?
On December 13 2015 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: GreyMist
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
This smells like bullshit to me.
It's true it sounds like a bad excuse.
That agreement with DP at the end strikes me as really weird, but I dont know why. Maybe its becuase its really just meaningless, he doesnt use the time or space to push me or ask a question, and there really is no followup along this line from him.
and then there is a possible overreaction becuase i mentioned his name in this post:
On December 13 2015 08:32 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn I guess you would call this a 'tone' read or whatever, but I am pretty darn good at spotting a townie rayn and alot of what he says makes sense. HIs damdred read was godlike and hard to fake as I have said earlier. His questioning of Rels was also good in that it showed one of the tendencies that I can recall rayn having. That being that he loves to really comb through the things people are saying in order to find small inconsistencies or breakdowns of a normal thought Process.
But you don't have a read on Damdred after saying rayn's read is godlike ?
On December 13 2015 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: GreyMist
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
This smells like bullshit to me.
It's true it sounds like a bad excuse.
prompting him to 3rd party defend rayn. maybe im reaching but I'd be ok with a rels lynch if thats the play.
You said I was prompted to 3rd party defend rayn when you mentionned me by name. But you didn't mention me by name in the post I commented on saying it sounded like a bad excuse. Look:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
On December 15 2015 01:34 GreYMisT wrote: Ok I see now, I didnt misquote, just didnt format the best way. the "3rd party defend" statement that I said referred to the same one you quoted, and my thoughts were based on that.
So you mean it referred to this ?
On December 13 2015 19:43 Rels wrote:
On December 13 2015 08:32 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn I guess you would call this a 'tone' read or whatever, but I am pretty darn good at spotting a townie rayn and alot of what he says makes sense. HIs damdred read was godlike and hard to fake as I have said earlier. His questioning of Rels was also good in that it showed one of the tendencies that I can recall rayn having. That being that he loves to really comb through the things people are saying in order to find small inconsistencies or breakdowns of a normal thought Process.
But you don't have a read on Damdred after saying rayn's read is godlike ?
On December 13 2015 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: GreyMist
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
This smells like bullshit to me.
It's true it sounds like a bad excuse.
I dont think this is getting us anywhere, but ill try to make this clear for you. And this is the last I'll discuss this for now.
I was pointing out a connection between your saying "sounds like a bad excuse" when i made a comment about ryan, and the later post you did commenting on my post about rayn. "Prompting" was probably the incorrect word to use in that case.
See, I still have a little bit of a problem. 'cause here is where you attacked my post saying it was a 3rd party defense of rayn:
On December 14 2015 05:46 GreYMisT wrote: I found 2 things about rels. first this post sticks out to me:
On December 13 2015 19:43 Rels wrote:
On December 13 2015 08:32 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn I guess you would call this a 'tone' read or whatever, but I am pretty darn good at spotting a townie rayn and alot of what he says makes sense. HIs damdred read was godlike and hard to fake as I have said earlier. His questioning of Rels was also good in that it showed one of the tendencies that I can recall rayn having. That being that he loves to really comb through the things people are saying in order to find small inconsistencies or breakdowns of a normal thought Process.
But you don't have a read on Damdred after saying rayn's read is godlike ?
On December 13 2015 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: GreyMist
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
This smells like bullshit to me.
It's true it sounds like a bad excuse.
That agreement with DP at the end strikes me as really weird, but I dont know why. Maybe its becuase its really just meaningless, he doesnt use the time or space to push me or ask a question, and there really is no followup along this line from him.
and then there is a possible overreaction becuase i mentioned his name in this post:
On December 13 2015 19:43 Rels wrote:
On December 13 2015 08:32 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn I guess you would call this a 'tone' read or whatever, but I am pretty darn good at spotting a townie rayn and alot of what he says makes sense. HIs damdred read was godlike and hard to fake as I have said earlier. His questioning of Rels was also good in that it showed one of the tendencies that I can recall rayn having. That being that he loves to really comb through the things people are saying in order to find small inconsistencies or breakdowns of a normal thought Process.
But you don't have a read on Damdred after saying rayn's read is godlike ?
On December 13 2015 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: GreyMist
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
This smells like bullshit to me.
It's true it sounds like a bad excuse.
prompting him to 3rd party defend rayn. maybe im reaching but I'd be ok with a rels lynch if thats the play.
You said I was prompted to 3rd party defend rayn when you mentionned me by name. But you didn't mention me by name in the post I commented on saying it sounded like a bad excuse. Look:
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
So what did you mean by that ?
I have already explained this. Prompted was a poor word choice, "connected" is better. I was referring to both posts.
I have also explained the last thing. I posted 2 quick reads, saw that rayn had posted a few big posts and decided to hold off on them until later because it would take more to digest.
Rels what do you think about rayn?
You haven't answer the question. Who is "him" in the sentence: and then there is a possible overreaction becuase i mentioned his name in this post: in that post:
On December 14 2015 05:46 GreYMisT wrote: I found 2 things about rels. first this post sticks out to me:
On December 13 2015 08:32 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn I guess you would call this a 'tone' read or whatever, but I am pretty darn good at spotting a townie rayn and alot of what he says makes sense. HIs damdred read was godlike and hard to fake as I have said earlier. His questioning of Rels was also good in that it showed one of the tendencies that I can recall rayn having. That being that he loves to really comb through the things people are saying in order to find small inconsistencies or breakdowns of a normal thought Process.
But you don't have a read on Damdred after saying rayn's read is godlike ?
On December 13 2015 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: GreyMist
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
This smells like bullshit to me.
It's true it sounds like a bad excuse.
That agreement with DP at the end strikes me as really weird, but I dont know why. Maybe its becuase its really just meaningless, he doesnt use the time or space to push me or ask a question, and there really is no followup along this line from him.
and then there is a possible overreaction becuase i mentioned his name in this post:
On December 13 2015 08:32 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn I guess you would call this a 'tone' read or whatever, but I am pretty darn good at spotting a townie rayn and alot of what he says makes sense. HIs damdred read was godlike and hard to fake as I have said earlier. His questioning of Rels was also good in that it showed one of the tendencies that I can recall rayn having. That being that he loves to really comb through the things people are saying in order to find small inconsistencies or breakdowns of a normal thought Process.
But you don't have a read on Damdred after saying rayn's read is godlike ?
On December 13 2015 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: GreyMist
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
This smells like bullshit to me.
It's true it sounds like a bad excuse.
prompting him to 3rd party defend rayn. maybe im reaching but I'd be ok with a rels lynch if thats the play.
On December 13 2015 08:32 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn I guess you would call this a 'tone' read or whatever, but I am pretty darn good at spotting a townie rayn and alot of what he says makes sense. HIs damdred read was godlike and hard to fake as I have said earlier. His questioning of Rels was also good in that it showed one of the tendencies that I can recall rayn having. That being that he loves to really comb through the things people are saying in order to find small inconsistencies or breakdowns of a normal thought Process.
But you don't have a read on Damdred after saying rayn's read is godlike ?
On December 13 2015 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: GreyMist
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
This smells like bullshit to me.
It's true it sounds like a bad excuse.
That agreement with DP at the end strikes me as really weird, but I dont know why. Maybe its becuase its really just meaningless, he doesnt use the time or space to push me or ask a question, and there really is no followup along this line from him.
and then there is a possible overreaction becuase i mentioned his name in this post:
On December 13 2015 08:32 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn I guess you would call this a 'tone' read or whatever, but I am pretty darn good at spotting a townie rayn and alot of what he says makes sense. HIs damdred read was godlike and hard to fake as I have said earlier. His questioning of Rels was also good in that it showed one of the tendencies that I can recall rayn having. That being that he loves to really comb through the things people are saying in order to find small inconsistencies or breakdowns of a normal thought Process.
But you don't have a read on Damdred after saying rayn's read is godlike ?
On December 13 2015 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: GreyMist
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
This smells like bullshit to me.
It's true it sounds like a bad excuse.
prompting him to 3rd party defend rayn. maybe im reaching but I'd be ok with a rels lynch if thats the play.
What is weird is that if you open the quotes, nowhere does GM mention Rels in that post. What could it mean ? Well, it coud mean that GM meant to quote another post and failed. One thing that make that hypothesis more believable is that he used the following sentence: and then there is a possible overreaction becuase i mentioned his name in this post: Why would he quote the same post twice and use the phrase "this post" if he meant to talk about the same post ? I think he meant to quote the following post:
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: while reading, 2 stood out to me as interesting:
The first is in regards to Damdred/Rels. I felt OK about Dam at first, but it struck me as interesting the way he interacted with Rels when Rels votes Marv. He asks why Rels is policy voting someone when he has a scum read on someone else, a sentiment I have no real issue with. What strikes me as strange is the way Dam seems to play up what Rels is doing as a weird play. The interaction covers most of a page when it seemed like it really didn't need to. I am suspicious of players who have lengthy interactions with others while accomplishing nothing. In addition, after this happens, DP essentially does the exact same thing and yet no reaction from Damdred. This strikes me as odd and I'd like to hear damdred's thoights about DP's vote placement.
How is it scum indicative ? I'm one of the scumread of Damdred, it's normal he interrogates me on my actions.
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: The first has occurred recently- forgive me for not quoting at the moment - when Ryan said he was sure that there could not be scum between DP/Hydra/ and Rels And was "certain" there was scum between myself and Marv. To begin, I don't like when people categorize like this. I feel like it benefits mafia to arbitrarily put people into categories to empose their viewpoint on the town. That isn't the main reason I didn't like the post, however.
On the contrary, I think it's town indicative for rayn to share his thought process. It's only scum indicative if you can point how what he posted is not logical or deserves a scum agenda.
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: The problem I have is his sudden change in conviction. Notice before this post he is just asking my opinion, wanting to know what I think of him (I will address this later below). And then, literally the next post he is certain either I or Marv are scum. Also consider that Marv is a guy who has not been here!You cannot be certain that someone is mafia if they have not posted. So basically, Rayn is saying here that he is certain I am mafia. It is this change in attitude, this certainty, and this hiding of his opinion by including Marv in this pairing that aroused my suspicion.
He explained why he thought that. Can you point what is wrong or scum with his logic ?
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: First, the way he jumped onto Rels with Damdred seems a bit rushed and oppertunistic to me. As if he is testing the waters to see if he can get something rolling.
You seem to consider me town since apparently Damdred / rayn attacked me too easily. Why are you townreading me ?
In this post: - Rels 3rd party defends rayn - GM mentions Rels by name So I'm actually pretty sure he was talking about that post. So look what happens when Rels asks GM about that:
On December 14 2015 05:46 GreYMisT wrote: I found 2 things about rels. first this post sticks out to me:
On December 13 2015 19:43 Rels wrote:
On December 13 2015 08:32 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn I guess you would call this a 'tone' read or whatever, but I am pretty darn good at spotting a townie rayn and alot of what he says makes sense. HIs damdred read was godlike and hard to fake as I have said earlier. His questioning of Rels was also good in that it showed one of the tendencies that I can recall rayn having. That being that he loves to really comb through the things people are saying in order to find small inconsistencies or breakdowns of a normal thought Process.
But you don't have a read on Damdred after saying rayn's read is godlike ?
On December 13 2015 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: GreyMist
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
This smells like bullshit to me.
It's true it sounds like a bad excuse.
That agreement with DP at the end strikes me as really weird, but I dont know why. Maybe its becuase its really just meaningless, he doesnt use the time or space to push me or ask a question, and there really is no followup along this line from him.
and then there is a possible overreaction becuase i mentioned his name in this post:
On December 13 2015 19:43 Rels wrote:
On December 13 2015 08:32 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn I guess you would call this a 'tone' read or whatever, but I am pretty darn good at spotting a townie rayn and alot of what he says makes sense. HIs damdred read was godlike and hard to fake as I have said earlier. His questioning of Rels was also good in that it showed one of the tendencies that I can recall rayn having. That being that he loves to really comb through the things people are saying in order to find small inconsistencies or breakdowns of a normal thought Process.
But you don't have a read on Damdred after saying rayn's read is godlike ?
On December 13 2015 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: GreyMist
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
This smells like bullshit to me.
It's true it sounds like a bad excuse.
prompting him to 3rd party defend rayn. maybe im reaching but I'd be ok with a rels lynch if thats the play.
Can you expand on to how I 3rd party defend rayn here ? I assume you quoted the wrong post and you meant this one:
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: while reading, 2 stood out to me as interesting:
The first is in regards to Damdred/Rels. I felt OK about Dam at first, but it struck me as interesting the way he interacted with Rels when Rels votes Marv. He asks why Rels is policy voting someone when he has a scum read on someone else, a sentiment I have no real issue with. What strikes me as strange is the way Dam seems to play up what Rels is doing as a weird play. The interaction covers most of a page when it seemed like it really didn't need to. I am suspicious of players who have lengthy interactions with others while accomplishing nothing. In addition, after this happens, DP essentially does the exact same thing and yet no reaction from Damdred. This strikes me as odd and I'd like to hear damdred's thoights about DP's vote placement.
How is it scum indicative ? I'm one of the scumread of Damdred, it's normal he interrogates me on my actions.
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: The first has occurred recently- forgive me for not quoting at the moment - when Ryan said he was sure that there could not be scum between DP/Hydra/ and Rels And was "certain" there was scum between myself and Marv. To begin, I don't like when people categorize like this. I feel like it benefits mafia to arbitrarily put people into categories to empose their viewpoint on the town. That isn't the main reason I didn't like the post, however.
On the contrary, I think it's town indicative for rayn to share his thought process. It's only scum indicative if you can point how what he posted is not logical or deserves a scum agenda.
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: The problem I have is his sudden change in conviction. Notice before this post he is just asking my opinion, wanting to know what I think of him (I will address this later below). And then, literally the next post he is certain either I or Marv are scum. Also consider that Marv is a guy who has not been here!You cannot be certain that someone is mafia if they have not posted. So basically, Rayn is saying here that he is certain I am mafia. It is this change in attitude, this certainty, and this hiding of his opinion by including Marv in this pairing that aroused my suspicion.
He explained why he thought that. Can you point what is wrong or scum with his logic ?
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: First, the way he jumped onto Rels with Damdred seems a bit rushed and oppertunistic to me. As if he is testing the waters to see if he can get something rolling.
You seem to consider me town since apparently Damdred / rayn attacked me too easily. Why are you townreading me ?
1) I dont understand the question 2) it looks like you are panicing and not trying to actually find scum. A town player in that situation would try to help and get the vote off of him, you said "shut up scum" voted rayn, realized that wasnt happening, and voted off. 3) and I think i might have misquoted as you said. I see it as a 3rd party defense because I posted suspicions of ryan, and you came in and broke down the post instead of waiting to see how rayn would react to it, like I would assume a town would who wants more information.
1) I dont understand the question 2) it looks like you are panicing and not trying to actually find scum. A town player in that situation would try to help and get the vote off of him, you said "shut up scum" voted rayn, realized that wasnt happening, and voted off. 3) and I think i might have misquoted as you said. I see it as a 3rd party defense because I posted suspicions of ryan, and you came in and broke down the post instead of waiting to see how rayn would react to it, like I would assume a town would who wants more information.
1. You said that about rayn: First, the way he jumped onto Rels with Damdred seems a bit rushed and oppertunistic to me. As if he is testing the waters to see if he can get something rolling. Then you said you didn't have a read on me atm. How can rayn be opportunisticly jumping on me if you don't townread me ? 2. OK. 3. That is a problem. You mentionned that you misread a rayn's post here, and thus all this part of your attack on rayn was bad:
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: First I will say that, while I find some conduct of Ryan suspicious, this results from inconsistencies in his behavior. I thought a lot of what he was doing seemed towny, however there are a few things that give me pause.
The first has occurred recently- forgive me for not quoting at the moment - when Ryan said he was sure that there could not be scum between DP/Hydra/ and Rels And was "certain" there was scum between myself and Marv. To begin, I don't like when people categorize like this. I feel like it benefits mafia to arbitrarily put people into categories to empose their viewpoint on the town. That isn't the main reason I didn't like the post, however.
I never said there could not be scum between them. I said i think there is no way BOTH of the scum are between them. I provided analysis on why i reached to the conclusion. I am not arbitary putting people into categories, if you think my analysis is incorrect, please argue about why they are incorrect instead of just creating a narrative on the conclusion.
The problem I have is his sudden change in conviction. Notice before this post he is just asking my opinion, wanting to know what I think of him (I will address this later below). And then, literally the next post he is certain either I or Marv are scum. Also consider that Marv is a guy who has not been here!You cannot be certain that someone is mafia if they have not posted. So basically, Rayn is saying here that he is certain I am mafia. It is this change in attitude, this certainty, and this hiding of his opinion by including Marv in this pairing that aroused my suspicion.
I am not saying it is certain you are mafia. In fact i am far more sure of marv being scum at this point based purely on the fact that he well knows the game has started and has decided to not post anything at all. The conclusion that at least one of you / marv has to be mafia for me is completely logical based on the analysis on other people -- basically it is due to PoE. Again, if you do not agree with this, please point out where i am wrong in my analysis. Then we have something to argue about.
Tbf, you can't just say something is scummy / wrong without actually explaining why it is that way. I feel like i have provided my thought process behind every conclusion i have made in this game -- so it would only be natural for you to actually try to disprove my conclusions if you attack my arguments, no?
Finally, I thought back to Ryan's other posts. They all seemed very towny so I thought to myself: "maybe I'm just chainsaw ing Ryan here, creating a read on him out of spite." Then I noticed 2 minor things which makes me think, perhaps, he could be mafia.
First, the way he jumped onto Rels with Damdred seems a bit rushed and oppertunistic to me. As if he is testing the waters to see if he can get something rolling.
Again, i have already said why i think this is the case. Why is my (and Damdred's) "jump" on Rels "rushed and oppertunistic". I found out Rels' thought process illogical and the things he posted didn't match up with the conclusions he ended up with. I wanted him to elaborate further, and i don't think "that going nowhere" is my fault, since Rels' answer was basically "yeah that's what i think".
Finally, Ryan asking my read of him. This strikes me as odd as well because it appears as though he wants to draw some early fire for an easy opportunity to defend himself through activity. A question like "why didn't you analyze me?!" Has bearing on day 2, but not a quarter into day 1 when information is still being processed.
There are my current thoughts, more to come.
In my opinion this has bearing when you analyze every single other player who has posted that far in the game. I consider it weird because if you are mafia you would either: 1) correctly call me town -- in which case it hinders your mislynch possibilities 2) incorrectly call me mafia -- in which case your logic is not sound in the first place and someone can catch you for it
Furthermore at some point you were saying you didn't have a read on me. But around half of your case (idk.. is this a case?) is based on the timeline when you didn't have a read on me, and is also basically based on everything i did during that time.. How is it possible both of your statements are correct?
1) I missread your first point then, my mistake
2) my issue with your analysis of me being mafia was not the fact that you think so, but the fact you admit it is only based on process of elimination. It is easy for mafia to point out how people are town and then say "well by process of elimination this person has to be mafia." It is far harder for mafia to actually find reasons that a town player is scummy. I like town hunting and using process of elimination to know who to focus on, but that cannot be the main support you have behind someone being scum. At least not on day 1.
3) I didn't go into great detail because I dont think you are for sure scum, just that I was suspicious of some of your actions. If I thought you were the lynch today trust me, there would be much more reasoning. Nevertheless, I thought the reason behind my suspicion was fairly straightforward. Your actions looked to me like a mafia setting up tomorrows misslynch, and not trying to get something done. Thats just what I see.
Finally, I dont really understand what you are saying at the end there, but I only posted on 2 players who I was able to analyize fairly quickly, and saved you for later. I am under no obligation to mention every player in the game when I post about someone but you seem to think that I am, at least about you. I think this is weird. I think this is weird becuase, Town rayn would only care about my opinion of him if he wants to see how I conduct my analysis or wants me to give a bearing on how something has gone in the game. This game had only been going on for a page or two at this point so there was nothing pressing to analyze, not a lot of content that needed commenting on, and its completly understandable that people are gathering their thoughts.
I therefore think it is more likely that scum ryan would want me to analyze him early. A scum player can survive day one by posting a lot, and basically using that presence to get people to townread him early. When I analyzied two players and didnt analyize ryan, a scum ryan would be a bit worried that his plan to be percieved as town through activity has failed to some degree. I see this request to "analyize me!" as a very low risk attempt to get people to town read him. Basically there is a very small benefit to doing this as town, but a low risk and high reward to do it as scum.
On December 13 2015 08:32 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn I guess you would call this a 'tone' read or whatever, but I am pretty darn good at spotting a townie rayn and alot of what he says makes sense. HIs damdred read was godlike and hard to fake as I have said earlier. His questioning of Rels was also good in that it showed one of the tendencies that I can recall rayn having. That being that he loves to really comb through the things people are saying in order to find small inconsistencies or breakdowns of a normal thought Process.
But you don't have a read on Damdred after saying rayn's read is godlike ?
On December 13 2015 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: GreyMist
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
This smells like bullshit to me.
It's true it sounds like a bad excuse.
prompting him to 3rd party defend rayn. maybe im reaching but I'd be ok with a rels lynch if thats the play.
Since you admit yourself you misread a post, I don't understand why you think me questionning your logic on attacking rayn is a 3rd party defense rather than me finding something weird on your posts. Do you have an explanation ?
I point out how it's illogical that he thinks I'm defending rayn, when he admited he misread rayn's post, and thus having a problem in his posts.
On December 15 2015 01:34 GreYMisT wrote: Ok I see now, I didnt misquote, just didnt format the best way. the "3rd party defend" statement that I said referred to the same one you quoted, and my thoughts were based on that.
So GM didn't remember what he was saying less than 24 hours ago ? I think it's bullshit, and it doesn't make sense. Let's take a look at the original post again since he didn't misquote anything apparently:
On December 14 2015 05:46 GreYMisT wrote: I found 2 things about rels. first this post sticks out to me:
On December 13 2015 08:32 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn I guess you would call this a 'tone' read or whatever, but I am pretty darn good at spotting a townie rayn and alot of what he says makes sense. HIs damdred read was godlike and hard to fake as I have said earlier. His questioning of Rels was also good in that it showed one of the tendencies that I can recall rayn having. That being that he loves to really comb through the things people are saying in order to find small inconsistencies or breakdowns of a normal thought Process.
But you don't have a read on Damdred after saying rayn's read is godlike ?
On December 13 2015 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: GreyMist
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
This smells like bullshit to me.
It's true it sounds like a bad excuse.
That agreement with DP at the end strikes me as really weird, but I dont know why. Maybe its becuase its really just meaningless, he doesnt use the time or space to push me or ask a question, and there really is no followup along this line from him.
and then there is a possible overreaction becuase i mentioned his name in this post:
On December 13 2015 08:32 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn I guess you would call this a 'tone' read or whatever, but I am pretty darn good at spotting a townie rayn and alot of what he says makes sense. HIs damdred read was godlike and hard to fake as I have said earlier. His questioning of Rels was also good in that it showed one of the tendencies that I can recall rayn having. That being that he loves to really comb through the things people are saying in order to find small inconsistencies or breakdowns of a normal thought Process.
But you don't have a read on Damdred after saying rayn's read is godlike ?
On December 13 2015 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: GreyMist
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
This smells like bullshit to me.
It's true it sounds like a bad excuse.
prompting him to 3rd party defend rayn. maybe im reaching but I'd be ok with a rels lynch if thats the play.
So GM: - quotes the same post twice to attack it from two different angles - says I was prompted to defend rayn when he quoted me by name, when he actually didn't - didn't remember what he meant less than 24 hours ago #caseclosed
On December 15 2015 01:34 GreYMisT wrote: Ok I see now, I didnt misquote, just didnt format the best way. the "3rd party defend" statement that I said referred to the same one you quoted, and my thoughts were based on that.
So you mean it referred to this ?
On December 13 2015 19:43 Rels wrote:
On December 13 2015 08:32 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn I guess you would call this a 'tone' read or whatever, but I am pretty darn good at spotting a townie rayn and alot of what he says makes sense. HIs damdred read was godlike and hard to fake as I have said earlier. His questioning of Rels was also good in that it showed one of the tendencies that I can recall rayn having. That being that he loves to really comb through the things people are saying in order to find small inconsistencies or breakdowns of a normal thought Process.
But you don't have a read on Damdred after saying rayn's read is godlike ?
On December 13 2015 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: GreyMist
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
This smells like bullshit to me.
It's true it sounds like a bad excuse.
I dont think this is getting us anywhere, but ill try to make this clear for you. And this is the last I'll discuss this for now.
I was pointing out a connection between your saying "sounds like a bad excuse" when i made a comment about ryan, and the later post you did commenting on my post about rayn. "Prompting" was probably the incorrect word to use in that case.
See, I still have a little bit of a problem. 'cause here is where you attacked my post saying it was a 3rd party defense of rayn:
On December 14 2015 05:46 GreYMisT wrote: I found 2 things about rels. first this post sticks out to me:
On December 13 2015 19:43 Rels wrote:
On December 13 2015 08:32 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn I guess you would call this a 'tone' read or whatever, but I am pretty darn good at spotting a townie rayn and alot of what he says makes sense. HIs damdred read was godlike and hard to fake as I have said earlier. His questioning of Rels was also good in that it showed one of the tendencies that I can recall rayn having. That being that he loves to really comb through the things people are saying in order to find small inconsistencies or breakdowns of a normal thought Process.
But you don't have a read on Damdred after saying rayn's read is godlike ?
On December 13 2015 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: GreyMist
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
This smells like bullshit to me.
It's true it sounds like a bad excuse.
That agreement with DP at the end strikes me as really weird, but I dont know why. Maybe its becuase its really just meaningless, he doesnt use the time or space to push me or ask a question, and there really is no followup along this line from him.
and then there is a possible overreaction becuase i mentioned his name in this post:
On December 13 2015 19:43 Rels wrote:
On December 13 2015 08:32 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn I guess you would call this a 'tone' read or whatever, but I am pretty darn good at spotting a townie rayn and alot of what he says makes sense. HIs damdred read was godlike and hard to fake as I have said earlier. His questioning of Rels was also good in that it showed one of the tendencies that I can recall rayn having. That being that he loves to really comb through the things people are saying in order to find small inconsistencies or breakdowns of a normal thought Process.
But you don't have a read on Damdred after saying rayn's read is godlike ?
On December 13 2015 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: GreyMist
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
This smells like bullshit to me.
It's true it sounds like a bad excuse.
prompting him to 3rd party defend rayn. maybe im reaching but I'd be ok with a rels lynch if thats the play.
You said I was prompted to 3rd party defend rayn when you mentionned me by name. But you didn't mention me by name in the post I commented on saying it sounded like a bad excuse. Look:
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
So what did you mean by that ?
I have already explained this. Prompted was a poor word choice, "connected" is better. I was referring to both posts.
I have also explained the last thing. I posted 2 quick reads, saw that rayn had posted a few big posts and decided to hold off on them until later because it would take more to digest.
Rels what do you think about rayn?
You haven't answer the question. Who is "him" in the sentence: and then there is a possible overreaction becuase i mentioned his name in this post: in that post:
On December 14 2015 05:46 GreYMisT wrote: I found 2 things about rels. first this post sticks out to me:
On December 13 2015 19:43 Rels wrote:
On December 13 2015 08:32 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn I guess you would call this a 'tone' read or whatever, but I am pretty darn good at spotting a townie rayn and alot of what he says makes sense. HIs damdred read was godlike and hard to fake as I have said earlier. His questioning of Rels was also good in that it showed one of the tendencies that I can recall rayn having. That being that he loves to really comb through the things people are saying in order to find small inconsistencies or breakdowns of a normal thought Process.
But you don't have a read on Damdred after saying rayn's read is godlike ?
On December 13 2015 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: GreyMist
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
This smells like bullshit to me.
It's true it sounds like a bad excuse.
That agreement with DP at the end strikes me as really weird, but I dont know why. Maybe its becuase its really just meaningless, he doesnt use the time or space to push me or ask a question, and there really is no followup along this line from him.
and then there is a possible overreaction becuase i mentioned his name in this post:
On December 13 2015 19:43 Rels wrote:
On December 13 2015 08:32 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn I guess you would call this a 'tone' read or whatever, but I am pretty darn good at spotting a townie rayn and alot of what he says makes sense. HIs damdred read was godlike and hard to fake as I have said earlier. His questioning of Rels was also good in that it showed one of the tendencies that I can recall rayn having. That being that he loves to really comb through the things people are saying in order to find small inconsistencies or breakdowns of a normal thought Process.
But you don't have a read on Damdred after saying rayn's read is godlike ?
On December 13 2015 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: GreyMist
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
This smells like bullshit to me.
It's true it sounds like a bad excuse.
prompting him to 3rd party defend rayn. maybe im reaching but I'd be ok with a rels lynch if thats the play.
Is that me ?
Try to read what i have said, I'm going to spend time analyzing and not belaboring this point.
WILL YOU ANSWER THE FUCKING QUESTION ITS NOT HARD REREAD YOUR FUCKING POST AND ANSWER YOU SAY YOU DIDNT MISQUOTE ACTUALLY SO THIS IS WHAT YOU MEANT YESTERDAY:
On December 14 2015 05:46 GreYMisT wrote: I found 2 things about rels. first this post sticks out to me:
On December 13 2015 08:32 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn I guess you would call this a 'tone' read or whatever, but I am pretty darn good at spotting a townie rayn and alot of what he says makes sense. HIs damdred read was godlike and hard to fake as I have said earlier. His questioning of Rels was also good in that it showed one of the tendencies that I can recall rayn having. That being that he loves to really comb through the things people are saying in order to find small inconsistencies or breakdowns of a normal thought Process.
But you don't have a read on Damdred after saying rayn's read is godlike ?
On December 13 2015 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: GreyMist
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
This smells like bullshit to me.
It's true it sounds like a bad excuse.
That agreement with DP at the end strikes me as really weird, but I dont know why. Maybe its becuase its really just meaningless, he doesnt use the time or space to push me or ask a question, and there really is no followup along this line from him.
and then there is a possible overreaction becuase i mentioned his name in this post:
On December 13 2015 08:32 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn I guess you would call this a 'tone' read or whatever, but I am pretty darn good at spotting a townie rayn and alot of what he says makes sense. HIs damdred read was godlike and hard to fake as I have said earlier. His questioning of Rels was also good in that it showed one of the tendencies that I can recall rayn having. That being that he loves to really comb through the things people are saying in order to find small inconsistencies or breakdowns of a normal thought Process.
But you don't have a read on Damdred after saying rayn's read is godlike ?
On December 13 2015 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: GreyMist
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
This smells like bullshit to me.
It's true it sounds like a bad excuse.
prompting him to 3rd party defend rayn. maybe im reaching but I'd be ok with a rels lynch if thats the play.
WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY "HIS" IN THIS SENTENCE: and then there is a possible overreaction becuase i mentioned his name in this post: IS THAT ME ?
On December 14 2015 05:46 GreYMisT wrote: I found 2 things about rels. first this post sticks out to me:
On December 13 2015 19:43 Rels wrote:
On December 13 2015 08:32 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn I guess you would call this a 'tone' read or whatever, but I am pretty darn good at spotting a townie rayn and alot of what he says makes sense. HIs damdred read was godlike and hard to fake as I have said earlier. His questioning of Rels was also good in that it showed one of the tendencies that I can recall rayn having. That being that he loves to really comb through the things people are saying in order to find small inconsistencies or breakdowns of a normal thought Process.
But you don't have a read on Damdred after saying rayn's read is godlike ?
On December 13 2015 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: GreyMist
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
This smells like bullshit to me.
It's true it sounds like a bad excuse.
That agreement with DP at the end strikes me as really weird, but I dont know why. Maybe its becuase its really just meaningless, he doesnt use the time or space to push me or ask a question, and there really is no followup along this line from him.
and then there is a possible overreaction becuase i mentioned his name in this post:
On December 13 2015 19:43 Rels wrote:
On December 13 2015 08:32 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn I guess you would call this a 'tone' read or whatever, but I am pretty darn good at spotting a townie rayn and alot of what he says makes sense. HIs damdred read was godlike and hard to fake as I have said earlier. His questioning of Rels was also good in that it showed one of the tendencies that I can recall rayn having. That being that he loves to really comb through the things people are saying in order to find small inconsistencies or breakdowns of a normal thought Process.
But you don't have a read on Damdred after saying rayn's read is godlike ?
On December 13 2015 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: GreyMist
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
This smells like bullshit to me.
It's true it sounds like a bad excuse.
prompting him to 3rd party defend rayn. maybe im reaching but I'd be ok with a rels lynch if thats the play.
OK so you said: "and then there is a possible overreaction becuase GM mentioned Rels name in this post:" BUT IN THE POST I QUOTES THERE IS NO MENTION OF ME, HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THAT ?
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
1) I dont understand the question 2) it looks like you are panicing and not trying to actually find scum. A town player in that situation would try to help and get the vote off of him, you said "shut up scum" voted rayn, realized that wasnt happening, and voted off. 3) and I think i might have misquoted as you said. I see it as a 3rd party defense because I posted suspicions of ryan, and you came in and broke down the post instead of waiting to see how rayn would react to it, like I would assume a town would who wants more information.
1. You said that about rayn: First, the way he jumped onto Rels with Damdred seems a bit rushed and oppertunistic to me. As if he is testing the waters to see if he can get something rolling. Then you said you didn't have a read on me atm. How can rayn be opportunisticly jumping on me if you don't townread me ? 2. OK. 3. That is a problem. You mentionned that you misread a rayn's post here, and thus all this part of your attack on rayn was bad:
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: First I will say that, while I find some conduct of Ryan suspicious, this results from inconsistencies in his behavior. I thought a lot of what he was doing seemed towny, however there are a few things that give me pause.
The first has occurred recently- forgive me for not quoting at the moment - when Ryan said he was sure that there could not be scum between DP/Hydra/ and Rels And was "certain" there was scum between myself and Marv. To begin, I don't like when people categorize like this. I feel like it benefits mafia to arbitrarily put people into categories to empose their viewpoint on the town. That isn't the main reason I didn't like the post, however.
I never said there could not be scum between them. I said i think there is no way BOTH of the scum are between them. I provided analysis on why i reached to the conclusion. I am not arbitary putting people into categories, if you think my analysis is incorrect, please argue about why they are incorrect instead of just creating a narrative on the conclusion.
The problem I have is his sudden change in conviction. Notice before this post he is just asking my opinion, wanting to know what I think of him (I will address this later below). And then, literally the next post he is certain either I or Marv are scum. Also consider that Marv is a guy who has not been here!You cannot be certain that someone is mafia if they have not posted. So basically, Rayn is saying here that he is certain I am mafia. It is this change in attitude, this certainty, and this hiding of his opinion by including Marv in this pairing that aroused my suspicion.
I am not saying it is certain you are mafia. In fact i am far more sure of marv being scum at this point based purely on the fact that he well knows the game has started and has decided to not post anything at all. The conclusion that at least one of you / marv has to be mafia for me is completely logical based on the analysis on other people -- basically it is due to PoE. Again, if you do not agree with this, please point out where i am wrong in my analysis. Then we have something to argue about.
Tbf, you can't just say something is scummy / wrong without actually explaining why it is that way. I feel like i have provided my thought process behind every conclusion i have made in this game -- so it would only be natural for you to actually try to disprove my conclusions if you attack my arguments, no?
Finally, I thought back to Ryan's other posts. They all seemed very towny so I thought to myself: "maybe I'm just chainsaw ing Ryan here, creating a read on him out of spite." Then I noticed 2 minor things which makes me think, perhaps, he could be mafia.
First, the way he jumped onto Rels with Damdred seems a bit rushed and oppertunistic to me. As if he is testing the waters to see if he can get something rolling.
Again, i have already said why i think this is the case. Why is my (and Damdred's) "jump" on Rels "rushed and oppertunistic". I found out Rels' thought process illogical and the things he posted didn't match up with the conclusions he ended up with. I wanted him to elaborate further, and i don't think "that going nowhere" is my fault, since Rels' answer was basically "yeah that's what i think".
Finally, Ryan asking my read of him. This strikes me as odd as well because it appears as though he wants to draw some early fire for an easy opportunity to defend himself through activity. A question like "why didn't you analyze me?!" Has bearing on day 2, but not a quarter into day 1 when information is still being processed.
There are my current thoughts, more to come.
In my opinion this has bearing when you analyze every single other player who has posted that far in the game. I consider it weird because if you are mafia you would either: 1) correctly call me town -- in which case it hinders your mislynch possibilities 2) incorrectly call me mafia -- in which case your logic is not sound in the first place and someone can catch you for it
Furthermore at some point you were saying you didn't have a read on me. But around half of your case (idk.. is this a case?) is based on the timeline when you didn't have a read on me, and is also basically based on everything i did during that time.. How is it possible both of your statements are correct?
1) I missread your first point then, my mistake
2) my issue with your analysis of me being mafia was not the fact that you think so, but the fact you admit it is only based on process of elimination. It is easy for mafia to point out how people are town and then say "well by process of elimination this person has to be mafia." It is far harder for mafia to actually find reasons that a town player is scummy. I like town hunting and using process of elimination to know who to focus on, but that cannot be the main support you have behind someone being scum. At least not on day 1.
3) I didn't go into great detail because I dont think you are for sure scum, just that I was suspicious of some of your actions. If I thought you were the lynch today trust me, there would be much more reasoning. Nevertheless, I thought the reason behind my suspicion was fairly straightforward. Your actions looked to me like a mafia setting up tomorrows misslynch, and not trying to get something done. Thats just what I see.
Finally, I dont really understand what you are saying at the end there, but I only posted on 2 players who I was able to analyize fairly quickly, and saved you for later. I am under no obligation to mention every player in the game when I post about someone but you seem to think that I am, at least about you. I think this is weird. I think this is weird becuase, Town rayn would only care about my opinion of him if he wants to see how I conduct my analysis or wants me to give a bearing on how something has gone in the game. This game had only been going on for a page or two at this point so there was nothing pressing to analyze, not a lot of content that needed commenting on, and its completly understandable that people are gathering their thoughts.
I therefore think it is more likely that scum ryan would want me to analyze him early. A scum player can survive day one by posting a lot, and basically using that presence to get people to townread him early. When I analyzied two players and didnt analyize ryan, a scum ryan would be a bit worried that his plan to be percieved as town through activity has failed to some degree. I see this request to "analyize me!" as a very low risk attempt to get people to town read him. Basically there is a very small benefit to doing this as town, but a low risk and high reward to do it as scum.
On December 13 2015 08:32 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn I guess you would call this a 'tone' read or whatever, but I am pretty darn good at spotting a townie rayn and alot of what he says makes sense. HIs damdred read was godlike and hard to fake as I have said earlier. His questioning of Rels was also good in that it showed one of the tendencies that I can recall rayn having. That being that he loves to really comb through the things people are saying in order to find small inconsistencies or breakdowns of a normal thought Process.
But you don't have a read on Damdred after saying rayn's read is godlike ?
On December 13 2015 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: GreyMist
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
This smells like bullshit to me.
It's true it sounds like a bad excuse.
prompting him to 3rd party defend rayn. maybe im reaching but I'd be ok with a rels lynch if thats the play.
Since you admit yourself you misread a post, I don't understand why you think me questionning your logic on attacking rayn is a 3rd party defense rather than me finding something weird on your posts. Do you have an explanation ?
On December 13 2015 08:32 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn I guess you would call this a 'tone' read or whatever, but I am pretty darn good at spotting a townie rayn and alot of what he says makes sense. HIs damdred read was godlike and hard to fake as I have said earlier. His questioning of Rels was also good in that it showed one of the tendencies that I can recall rayn having. That being that he loves to really comb through the things people are saying in order to find small inconsistencies or breakdowns of a normal thought Process.
But you don't have a read on Damdred after saying rayn's read is godlike ?
On December 13 2015 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: GreyMist
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
This smells like bullshit to me.
It's true it sounds like a bad excuse.
That agreement with DP at the end strikes me as really weird, but I dont know why. Maybe its becuase its really just meaningless, he doesnt use the time or space to push me or ask a question, and there really is no followup along this line from him.
and then there is a possible overreaction becuase i mentioned his name in this post:
On December 13 2015 08:32 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn I guess you would call this a 'tone' read or whatever, but I am pretty darn good at spotting a townie rayn and alot of what he says makes sense. HIs damdred read was godlike and hard to fake as I have said earlier. His questioning of Rels was also good in that it showed one of the tendencies that I can recall rayn having. That being that he loves to really comb through the things people are saying in order to find small inconsistencies or breakdowns of a normal thought Process.
But you don't have a read on Damdred after saying rayn's read is godlike ?
On December 13 2015 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: GreyMist
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
This smells like bullshit to me.
It's true it sounds like a bad excuse.
prompting him to 3rd party defend rayn. maybe im reaching but I'd be ok with a rels lynch if thats the play.
On December 13 2015 08:32 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn I guess you would call this a 'tone' read or whatever, but I am pretty darn good at spotting a townie rayn and alot of what he says makes sense. HIs damdred read was godlike and hard to fake as I have said earlier. His questioning of Rels was also good in that it showed one of the tendencies that I can recall rayn having. That being that he loves to really comb through the things people are saying in order to find small inconsistencies or breakdowns of a normal thought Process.
But you don't have a read on Damdred after saying rayn's read is godlike ?
On December 13 2015 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: GreyMist
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
This smells like bullshit to me.
It's true it sounds like a bad excuse.
That agreement with DP at the end strikes me as really weird, but I dont know why. Maybe its becuase its really just meaningless, he doesnt use the time or space to push me or ask a question, and there really is no followup along this line from him.
and then there is a possible overreaction becuase i mentioned his name in this post:
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: while reading, 2 stood out to me as interesting:
The first is in regards to Damdred/Rels. I felt OK about Dam at first, but it struck me as interesting the way he interacted with Rels when Rels votes Marv. He asks why Rels is policy voting someone when he has a scum read on someone else, a sentiment I have no real issue with. What strikes me as strange is the way Dam seems to play up what Rels is doing as a weird play. The interaction covers most of a page when it seemed like it really didn't need to. I am suspicious of players who have lengthy interactions with others while accomplishing nothing. In addition, after this happens, DP essentially does the exact same thing and yet no reaction from Damdred. This strikes me as odd and I'd like to hear damdred's thoights about DP's vote placement.
How is it scum indicative ? I'm one of the scumread of Damdred, it's normal he interrogates me on my actions.
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: The first has occurred recently- forgive me for not quoting at the moment - when Ryan said he was sure that there could not be scum between DP/Hydra/ and Rels And was "certain" there was scum between myself and Marv. To begin, I don't like when people categorize like this. I feel like it benefits mafia to arbitrarily put people into categories to empose their viewpoint on the town. That isn't the main reason I didn't like the post, however.
On the contrary, I think it's town indicative for rayn to share his thought process. It's only scum indicative if you can point how what he posted is not logical or deserves a scum agenda.
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: The problem I have is his sudden change in conviction. Notice before this post he is just asking my opinion, wanting to know what I think of him (I will address this later below). And then, literally the next post he is certain either I or Marv are scum. Also consider that Marv is a guy who has not been here!You cannot be certain that someone is mafia if they have not posted. So basically, Rayn is saying here that he is certain I am mafia. It is this change in attitude, this certainty, and this hiding of his opinion by including Marv in this pairing that aroused my suspicion.
He explained why he thought that. Can you point what is wrong or scum with his logic ?
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: First, the way he jumped onto Rels with Damdred seems a bit rushed and oppertunistic to me. As if he is testing the waters to see if he can get something rolling.
You seem to consider me town since apparently Damdred / rayn attacked me too easily. Why are you townreading me ?
prompting him to 3rd party defend rayn. maybe im reaching but I'd be ok with a rels lynch if thats the play.
On December 13 2015 08:32 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn I guess you would call this a 'tone' read or whatever, but I am pretty darn good at spotting a townie rayn and alot of what he says makes sense. HIs damdred read was godlike and hard to fake as I have said earlier. His questioning of Rels was also good in that it showed one of the tendencies that I can recall rayn having. That being that he loves to really comb through the things people are saying in order to find small inconsistencies or breakdowns of a normal thought Process.
But you don't have a read on Damdred after saying rayn's read is godlike ?
On December 13 2015 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: GreyMist
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
This smells like bullshit to me.
It's true it sounds like a bad excuse.
That agreement with DP at the end strikes me as really weird, but I dont know why. Maybe its becuase its really just meaningless, he doesnt use the time or space to push me or ask a question, and there really is no followup along this line from him.
and then there is a possible overreaction becuase i mentioned his name in this post:
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: while reading, 2 stood out to me as interesting:
The first is in regards to Damdred/Rels. I felt OK about Dam at first, but it struck me as interesting the way he interacted with Rels when Rels votes Marv. He asks why Rels is policy voting someone when he has a scum read on someone else, a sentiment I have no real issue with. What strikes me as strange is the way Dam seems to play up what Rels is doing as a weird play. The interaction covers most of a page when it seemed like it really didn't need to. I am suspicious of players who have lengthy interactions with others while accomplishing nothing. In addition, after this happens, DP essentially does the exact same thing and yet no reaction from Damdred. This strikes me as odd and I'd like to hear damdred's thoights about DP's vote placement.
The second thing is Ryan's long awaited analysis of himself, not to be one who disappoints: I am slightly suspicious of Ryan. Here is my reasoning:
First I will say that, while I find some conduct of Ryan suspicious, this results from inconsistencies in his behavior. I thought a lot of what he was doing seemed towny, however there are a few things that give me pause.
The first has occurred recently- forgive me for not quoting at the moment - when Ryan said he was sure that there could not be scum between DP/Hydra/ and Rels And was "certain" there was scum between myself and Marv. To begin, I don't like when people categorize like this. I feel like it benefits mafia to arbitrarily put people into categories to empose their viewpoint on the town. That isn't the main reason I didn't like the post, however.
The problem I have is his sudden change in conviction. Notice before this post he is just asking my opinion, wanting to know what I think of him (I will address this later below). And then, literally the next post he is certain either I or Marv are scum. Also consider that Marv is a guy who has not been here!You cannot be certain that someone is mafia if they have not posted. So basically, Rayn is saying here that he is certain I am mafia. It is this change in attitude, this certainty, and this hiding of his opinion by including Marv in this pairing that aroused my suspicion.
Finally, I thought back to Ryan's other posts. They all seemed very towny so I thought to myself: "maybe I'm just chainsaw ing Ryan here, creating a read on him out of spite." Then I noticed 2 minor things which makes me think, perhaps, he could be mafia.
First, the way he jumped onto Rels with Damdred seems a bit rushed and oppertunistic to me. As if he is testing the waters to see if he can get something rolling.
Finally, Ryan asking my read of him. This strikes me as odd as well because it appears as though he wants to draw some early fire for an easy opportunity to defend himself through activity. A question like "why didn't you analyze me?!" Has bearing on day 2, but not a quarter into day 1 when information is still being processed.
There are my current thoughts, more to come.
prompting him to 3rd party defend rayn. maybe im reaching but I'd be ok with a rels lynch if thats the play.
On December 15 2015 03:28 Rels wrote: I'm as lost as you. Waiting for gm confirmation on what he meant (did he misquote or not ?) before going further.
Since you admit yourself you misread a post, I don't understand why you think me questionning your logic on attacking rayn is a 3rd party defense rather than me finding something weird on your posts. Do you have an explanation ?
Yep. But he said he made a mistake and meant something else since.
On December 15 2015 05:03 RtaniSoul wrote: We also don't think the Rels-GM interaction looks like town-town, and in particular looks bad on Rels. It looks more like he's trying to make something happen and focusing on small issues that he just posts a lot about rather than trying to work with people. Kind of more of the same. The issue discussed was insignificant and doesn't really make anyone scum.
When I interrogated GM as to why he made the post about me defending rayn, he answered this:
On December 15 2015 01:11 GreYMisT wrote: 3) and I think i might have misquoted as you said. I see it as a 3rd party defense because I posted suspicions of ryan, and you came in and broke down the post instead of waiting to see how rayn would react to it, like I would assume a town would who wants more information.
That corresponds to the post being the "number 2" post, where, as he said, I "came in and broke down the post".
Now he actually went back from this answer and say it's number 1+3 that he meant:
On December 15 2015 04:21 GreYMisT wrote: Its the fourth option: I should have had 2 quotes in that section - a combination of the 1st and the 3rd.
But anyway rels, just pretend like I am not mafia for a few minutes. You have a gun, who do you shoot tonight and why.
But in this configuration, I didn't "came in and broke the post instead of waiting to see how rayn would react to it". Meaning this post is a mistake, as he admited:
On December 15 2015 01:11 GreYMisT wrote: 3) and I think i might have misquoted as you said. I see it as a 3rd party defense because I posted suspicions of ryan, and you came in and broke down the post instead of waiting to see how rayn would react to it, like I would assume a town would who wants more information.
Now in that post he posted a rational explanation as to why he apparently thought I was scum trying to 3rd party defend rayn. An explanation that he rescinded a few posts later, saying he made a mistake. It is unlikely for a townie to forget why you scumread someone. It is impossible for a townie to create a new reason by mistake. So GM is scum making up stuff.
On December 14 2015 05:46 GreYMisT wrote: I found 2 things about rels. first this post sticks out to me:
On December 13 2015 19:43 Rels wrote:
On December 13 2015 08:32 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn I guess you would call this a 'tone' read or whatever, but I am pretty darn good at spotting a townie rayn and alot of what he says makes sense. HIs damdred read was godlike and hard to fake as I have said earlier. His questioning of Rels was also good in that it showed one of the tendencies that I can recall rayn having. That being that he loves to really comb through the things people are saying in order to find small inconsistencies or breakdowns of a normal thought Process.
But you don't have a read on Damdred after saying rayn's read is godlike ?
On December 13 2015 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: GreyMist
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
This smells like bullshit to me.
It's true it sounds like a bad excuse.
That agreement with DP at the end strikes me as really weird, but I dont know why. Maybe its becuase its really just meaningless, he doesnt use the time or space to push me or ask a question, and there really is no followup along this line from him.
and then there is a possible overreaction becuase i mentioned his name in this post:
On December 13 2015 19:43 Rels wrote:
On December 13 2015 08:32 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn I guess you would call this a 'tone' read or whatever, but I am pretty darn good at spotting a townie rayn and alot of what he says makes sense. HIs damdred read was godlike and hard to fake as I have said earlier. His questioning of Rels was also good in that it showed one of the tendencies that I can recall rayn having. That being that he loves to really comb through the things people are saying in order to find small inconsistencies or breakdowns of a normal thought Process.
But you don't have a read on Damdred after saying rayn's read is godlike ?
On December 13 2015 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: GreyMist
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
This smells like bullshit to me.
It's true it sounds like a bad excuse.
prompting him to 3rd party defend rayn. maybe im reaching but I'd be ok with a rels lynch if thats the play.
Can you expand on to how I 3rd party defend rayn here ? I assume you quoted the wrong post and you meant this one:
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: while reading, 2 stood out to me as interesting:
The first is in regards to Damdred/Rels. I felt OK about Dam at first, but it struck me as interesting the way he interacted with Rels when Rels votes Marv. He asks why Rels is policy voting someone when he has a scum read on someone else, a sentiment I have no real issue with. What strikes me as strange is the way Dam seems to play up what Rels is doing as a weird play. The interaction covers most of a page when it seemed like it really didn't need to. I am suspicious of players who have lengthy interactions with others while accomplishing nothing. In addition, after this happens, DP essentially does the exact same thing and yet no reaction from Damdred. This strikes me as odd and I'd like to hear damdred's thoights about DP's vote placement.
How is it scum indicative ? I'm one of the scumread of Damdred, it's normal he interrogates me on my actions.
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: The first has occurred recently- forgive me for not quoting at the moment - when Ryan said he was sure that there could not be scum between DP/Hydra/ and Rels And was "certain" there was scum between myself and Marv. To begin, I don't like when people categorize like this. I feel like it benefits mafia to arbitrarily put people into categories to empose their viewpoint on the town. That isn't the main reason I didn't like the post, however.
On the contrary, I think it's town indicative for rayn to share his thought process. It's only scum indicative if you can point how what he posted is not logical or deserves a scum agenda.
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: The problem I have is his sudden change in conviction. Notice before this post he is just asking my opinion, wanting to know what I think of him (I will address this later below). And then, literally the next post he is certain either I or Marv are scum. Also consider that Marv is a guy who has not been here!You cannot be certain that someone is mafia if they have not posted. So basically, Rayn is saying here that he is certain I am mafia. It is this change in attitude, this certainty, and this hiding of his opinion by including Marv in this pairing that aroused my suspicion.
He explained why he thought that. Can you point what is wrong or scum with his logic ?
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: First, the way he jumped onto Rels with Damdred seems a bit rushed and oppertunistic to me. As if he is testing the waters to see if he can get something rolling.
You seem to consider me town since apparently Damdred / rayn attacked me too easily. Why are you townreading me ?
Thought about what to answer, made up a reason that made sense: + Show Spoiler +
On December 15 2015 01:11 GreYMisT wrote: 3) and I think i might have misquoted as you said. I see it as a 3rd party defense because I posted suspicions of ryan, and you came in and broke down the post instead of waiting to see how rayn would react to it, like I would assume a town would who wants more information.
Then went back on it realizing it didn't make sense: + Show Spoiler +
On December 15 2015 01:34 GreYMisT wrote: Ok I see now, I didnt misquote, just didnt format the best way. the "3rd party defend" statement that I said referred to the same one you quoted, and my thoughts were based on that.
On December 15 2015 01:37 GreYMisT wrote: Thanks for pointing that out. It appears as though I missremembered.
On December 15 2015 01:34 GreYMisT wrote: Ok I see now, I didnt misquote, just didnt format the best way. the "3rd party defend" statement that I said referred to the same one you quoted, and my thoughts were based on that.
So you mean it referred to this ?
On December 13 2015 19:43 Rels wrote:
On December 13 2015 08:32 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn I guess you would call this a 'tone' read or whatever, but I am pretty darn good at spotting a townie rayn and alot of what he says makes sense. HIs damdred read was godlike and hard to fake as I have said earlier. His questioning of Rels was also good in that it showed one of the tendencies that I can recall rayn having. That being that he loves to really comb through the things people are saying in order to find small inconsistencies or breakdowns of a normal thought Process.
But you don't have a read on Damdred after saying rayn's read is godlike ?
On December 13 2015 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: GreyMist
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
This smells like bullshit to me.
It's true it sounds like a bad excuse.
I dont think this is getting us anywhere, but ill try to make this clear for you. And this is the last I'll discuss this for now.
I was pointing out a connection between your saying "sounds like a bad excuse" when i made a comment about ryan, and the later post you did commenting on my post about rayn. "Prompting" was probably the incorrect word to use in that case.
On December 15 2015 06:34 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn if grey is scum why did he not push me or rels really hard with marv in order to stave off marvs lynch?
He didn't push hard but he did push me and tried to resist the switch off me to marv.
On December 15 2015 06:55 DarthPunk wrote: Do you not consider that GM could have just changed his perception of that post over the course of time?
He is literally using two different posts to justify his read on Rels. one post is meh.... which he now claims is not actually the post he was talking about. the second post must be a lie.
what am i supposed to think?
What if he just changed his mind based on the ~day of time playing the game that had passed or started viewing that post differently with different information?
Please explain how a townie make up a reason to explain a past post, then realize that reason isn't true ?
On December 15 2015 07:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: he would have not been "self-suicidal" on eod1 if he was. most likely would have claimed instead of posting:
On December 15 2015 07:09 RtaniSoul wrote: Okay, we've decided to re-evaluate everything and we've come to some shocking revelations.
After rereading over all the posts, we've decided Rayn is the most likely scum. He was inconsistent in his reads on Greymist. At first, he didn't want to lynch him, then suddenly he does. It just doesn't make any sense.
Secondly, we also think Damdred is mafia. LoneMeow is a bastard host and it was actually Rels who flipped vanilla town. Marv was also town.
DarthPunk we aren't sure on. We thought he might be town because he buddied people early but then he started making posts that made sense so now we're not sure.
GreYMisT.. Well, we thought he was town for everything but then he misconstrued something he once said in an argument about an argument in an argument so we guess he's mafia anyway.
Unfortunately this means the game is already lost because there's too many mafia
You're bad. You're two players, and you two are the worst players in this game.
On December 12 2015 13:52 RtaniSoul wrote: *sanctioned message by both heads
We are seeking a third head. Please apply.
Unless your name is DP and your nose is firmly up everyone's ass already.
Carry on ^^
That's how he posts.
Game?
I've been mislynched once on this site, in large part because I failed to convince geript that DP was a skeezy scumbucket with a geript in his pocket. Artie remembers Imperial and remembers a more aggressive DP. I glanced through the town game before that just in case replacing in might have had an effect on DP's play, but no dice. Aggressive there right out the starting gate.
These are only a few games, but given they support the perception we already have...
Where you getting this from, rayn?
-waves at DP- Because pointing out that you're buddying people is definitely not worth mentioning or anything ^^ We up for a round two?
On December 12 2015 13:52 RtaniSoul wrote: *sanctioned message by both heads
We are seeking a third head. Please apply.
Unless your name is DP and your nose is firmly up everyone's ass already.
Carry on ^^
That's how he posts.
Game?
I've been mislynched once on this site, in large part because I failed to convince geript that DP was a skeezy scumbucket with a geript in his pocket. Artie remembers Imperial and remembers a more aggressive DP. I glanced through the town game before that just in case replacing in might have had an effect on DP's play, but no dice. Aggressive there right out the starting gate.
These are only a few games, but given they support the perception we already have...
Where you getting this from, rayn?
-waves at DP- Because pointing out that you're buddying people is definitely not worth mentioning or anything ^^ We up for a round two?
This is the last game i remember playing with DarthPunk when we were both town. This is his filter in the game.
Basically i know DP is usually aggressive and i can see where you are coming from. Obviously it's nor out of the realm of possibilities he is mafia here, but i disagree in him not being "aggressive enough" makes him mafia. He treats different people differently, and i know for a fact he buddies to strong players (if you read the filter the "proof" is there).
Basically this game is filled with people who in my opinion do not respond well -- or at all -- to pressure, at least unfounded pressure (i mean situations where the game has went on for hours and there is not really anything scummy in thread -- disagree?). At the time you called him out, what in your opinion should he have done as town? Should he have questioned something? Should he have pressured something more? In my opinion, when i read the thread at that point, i didn't see anything wrong -- which is i, myself decided to comment on the only read i could be even semi-sure of.
Also bringing up Imperial is in my opinion a bit of a misjudgement (or what the fuck is the word). He replaced into a game on N3...... Of course there is going to be some reads he has rofl. If he hadn't any reads on a thread that is @ N3, he could just quit mafia. Comparing that game to this one (at 6 hours into the game with only 3 people properly even posting) is quite a stretch.
Then BEFORE RECONSIDERING IT, YOU POST THE FUCKING SAME READ TWO MORE TIMES, THEN YOU SAY "OK RAYN WAS RIGHT WE WERE WRONG". WHY DID YOU REPOST THE SAME READ WITHOUT CHECKING WHAT RAYN SAID ??????? ITS USELESS, IT CLUTTERS THE THREAD, IT DOESNT HAVE A PURPOSE
On December 13 2015 01:10 RtaniSoul wrote: P.S. Thanks rayn! I'll take a look at your link...later? Maybe when I'm waiting at the airport to pick up Lex. Also, just to be clear, my point was the buddying and not the aggression...I am well aware that DP can be aggressive as either alignment, and we are both aware that Imperial is different, which is why I looked up the other town game (Avogadro, to be precise). So let me rephrase. Buddying without pushing anything early game is what caught our attention.
On December 14 2015 00:15 RtaniSoul wrote: About the reiteration Our concern is essentially what we're outlining below. Not the fact that DP is buddying, or that he's not aggressive in isolation, but that he's a non-entity. Those are distinctly different in our minds than saying oh look! DP is buddying people! He must be scum! Or DP is not being aggressive enough! He must be scum! It is more of an overall feel for his presence (or lack thereof) in the thread.
Here you say DP's townread in not at all based on rayn:
On December 14 2015 21:00 RtaniSoul wrote: Lexy really thinks DP is town based on his later posting, and I'm gonna trust him over me. We realize that there wasn't much thread sentiment to move to DP and it could have been considered a safe buss attempt, but Occam's razor suggests marv doesn't put his vote on his scummate to get out of a nearly inevitable lynch. We also don't see marv risking lynching his scumbuddy because he's not likely to play afterward.
Then here it's partly based on rayn's read:
On December 14 2015 23:39 RtaniSoul wrote: In the end, we trusted rayn that buddying and lack of aggression alone doesn't make DP scum and couldn't be assed to do a meta dive.
Which bring me to a parenthesis: YOU ANSWER PARTIALLY TO QUESTIONS
Why is GM townie for scumreading Damdred & rayn, when he dropped these scumreads at the most opportunistic time (deadline) ?
You agreed with Damdred & rayn probing me concerning the marv vote here:
On December 14 2015 00:15 RtaniSoul wrote: Then there was the weird marv vote that also got pinged out by Rayn and Damdred. In the case of Marv being mafia, it gives Rels an excuse to be on him early whilst actually being able to switch to DP as soon as Marv posts.
GM found Damdred scummy about the way Damdred probed me concerning the marv vote:
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: The first is in regards to Damdred/Rels. I felt OK about Dam at first, but it struck me as interesting the way he interacted with Rels when Rels votes Marv. He asks why Rels is policy voting someone when he has a scum read on someone else, a sentiment I have no real issue with. What strikes me as strange is the way Dam seems to play up what Rels is doing as a weird play. The interaction covers most of a page when it seemed like it really didn't need to. I am suspicious of players who have lengthy interactions with others while accomplishing nothing. In addition, after this happens, DP essentially does the exact same thing and yet no reaction from Damdred. This strikes me as odd and I'd like to hear damdred's thoights about DP's vote placement.
Why do you townread GM for attacking Damdred because Damdred did something you agreed with ?
You're right. If we'd townread GM for attacking Damdred specifically for that reason, rather than because pushing damdred and rayn is a high-risk, low-reward play with scum marv afk...that would be weird.
"We townread DP because WIFOM WIFOM". That's bad but OK.
Why is GM townie for scumreading Damdred & rayn, when he dropped these scumreads at the most opportunistic time (deadline) ?
You agreed with Damdred & rayn probing me concerning the marv vote here:
On December 14 2015 00:15 RtaniSoul wrote: Then there was the weird marv vote that also got pinged out by Rayn and Damdred. In the case of Marv being mafia, it gives Rels an excuse to be on him early whilst actually being able to switch to DP as soon as Marv posts.
GM found Damdred scummy about the way Damdred probed me concerning the marv vote:
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: The first is in regards to Damdred/Rels. I felt OK about Dam at first, but it struck me as interesting the way he interacted with Rels when Rels votes Marv. He asks why Rels is policy voting someone when he has a scum read on someone else, a sentiment I have no real issue with. What strikes me as strange is the way Dam seems to play up what Rels is doing as a weird play. The interaction covers most of a page when it seemed like it really didn't need to. I am suspicious of players who have lengthy interactions with others while accomplishing nothing. In addition, after this happens, DP essentially does the exact same thing and yet no reaction from Damdred. This strikes me as odd and I'd like to hear damdred's thoights about DP's vote placement.
Why do you townread GM for attacking Damdred because Damdred did something you agreed with ?
You're right. If we'd townread GM for attacking Damdred specifically for that reason, rather than because pushing damdred and rayn is a high-risk, low-reward play with scum marv afk...that would be weird.
Your reason for townreading GM isn't good then. It's "scum wouldn't do that!" It's similar for your reason for townreading me. "scum!Rels wouldn't vote someone else than marv at EOD!" They're weak.
If those were our only reasons, then yes, they would be weak.
Also, rayn's reasons for townreading GM are excellent lol ><
OH I DIDNT MENTION IT IN THE LAST ANSWER BUT WE HAVE OTHER REASONS TOO HURR DURR END OF PARENTHESIS BECAUSE IT GOES BACK TO BAD READS:
On December 15 2015 01:06 RtaniSoul wrote: So our view on Rels' recent posting is that it feels like the tone is more townie in that he's working with us and asking questions which is more indicative of his Townplay, but the things he's trying to nail people on are things that have either already been explained or aren't that strong and it feels a bit like "hey, can I nail them on this?" "nope? damn, let me try this instead". That's kind of the impression he's leaving on us right now.
MY GOD HOW DARE RELS ASK US QUESTIONS TO SEE IF WE RE SCUM, THEN DONT FIND SOMETHING SCUMMY IN OUR ANSWERS AND GO DO SOMETHING ELSE E EZ SCUM
On December 14 2015 23:11 RtaniSoul wrote: To be honest, Rels, you just haven't written anything that has made us go "ah! that looks like a town Rels!" You seem to be gunning after whatever you can get. I described it as throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks.
BECAUSE THAT IS TOTALLY NOT HOW I SCUM HUNT USUALLY HOW DARE RELS THROW SEVERAL SPAGHETTIS AND SEE THE ONE THAT STICKS ON SCUM You scumread me for POE, which is OK, AND for asking "pointless questions trying to nail suspicions on someone" which is outrageous. THAT S TRUE, HOW DARE RELS BE SUSPICIOUS OF US WHEN WE HAD SUCH A PERFECT EOD ??? WE JUST WERE AFK DURING DEADLINE AND 13 HOURS AFTER IT BECAUSE I WAS SHOPPING THE WHOLE CITY. Oh Arta ??? uh .... he was sick
What is EVEN WORSE is that you also scumread me by POE because of this SUPERBE GM townread:
On December 14 2015 23:11 RtaniSoul wrote: we still feel that GM's approach to the game has been fairly townie in terms of tone and strategy. Damdred and Rayn as his main scumreads earlier, for example, is just not a winning play for scum when they're never getting lynched here.
We townread this experienced player because TONE and HE WOULDNT WEAR PANTS IN HIS HEAD IF HE WAS SCUM RIGHT ????
Now can you two can link me ONE time in any town game a moment where someone else ask you to explain your reasonning, and you MAKE UP A NEW ONE BEFORE REALIZING IT WASNT IT ?
I really think everything I wrote in that spoiler, but I was super virulent. Sry in advance if you're hurt. I still think your play is very subbar this game assuming you're town.
On December 15 2015 19:27 DarthPunk wrote: OK im around for like 15 minutes before I have to go to bed.
Some things.
I'm not the medic.
Rels looks really townie to me.
I think RSO looks bad.
I think the medic should probably claim if a save doesn't effect the number of mis-lynches we get because a confirmed townie is really strong in a small game.
Free to chat for a little if anyone is around while I read through some stuff.
Did you reread the thing on GM like you said you would ? What did you think of it ? Apprently nothing much since you didn't even mention it ?
Yes I was reading it you don't need to link me that shit.
]Anyway I get what you mean in that his arguments shifted and were created out of thin almost in those discussions with you.
Yep, he made up an a reason to explain why he posted something; then said he made a mistake and that the reason wasn't true. I think it's impossible for a someone to make up a reason to explain one of his own post if he's town.
On December 15 2015 19:49 DarthPunk wrote: You too Rels can you explain what in the fuck Scum!Greymist was doing at EoD waffling around the marv lynch? How do you think they were furthering their objectives as a team at that point?
On December 14 2015 03:46 Damdred wrote: Super important question I want grey to answer this before he answers anything else.
You seem to be still somewhat scum leaning Ryan is this correct?
Much less than I did before. I can go into detail why but its based on the misunderstanding we had and I dont think thats the best use of our time; now that Marv is here things have gotten unfortunatly interesting.
On December 14 2015 05:19 marvellosity wrote: this is kinda my appeal to emotion to you rayn, and also the rest of the players who know me:
weekends are ALWAYS fucking shit for me these days. like every game i make excuses about the weekend (and i should have done here but i just didn't). like the shadow QT of my last game is me going "i need to get NK n1 because as usual i am away all weekend"
sure being afk is generally a scumtell for me, but being away on the weekend is just a marvtell, and in such a fucking short game, at any point (if i wasn't genuinely afk) and made a bunch of posts that looked fine.
except (in this case where i am mafia) i have decided to leave making my posts for like 2 hours before deadline when all the votes on me and it looks kinda hopeless?
bleh...............
My issue here is that this post didnt come at the start of the game when you said "hey" after the day post. You obviously knew that the game was starting and that it was the weekend. You didnt make any effort to phone post and say, "yo guys cant post, sorry, will do it later" or anything of the sort.
Why shouldn't I believe that you are scum marv trying to come in at the last second and sow a little chaos?
On December 14 2015 05:19 marvellosity wrote: this is kinda my appeal to emotion to you rayn, and also the rest of the players who know me:
weekends are ALWAYS fucking shit for me these days. like every game i make excuses about the weekend (and i should have done here but i just didn't). like the shadow QT of my last game is me going "i need to get NK n1 because as usual i am away all weekend"
sure being afk is generally a scumtell for me, but being away on the weekend is just a marvtell, and in such a fucking short game, at any point (if i wasn't genuinely afk) and made a bunch of posts that looked fine.
except (in this case where i am mafia) i have decided to leave making my posts for like 2 hours before deadline when all the votes on me and it looks kinda hopeless?
bleh...............
My issue here is that this post didnt come at the start of the game when you said "hey" after the day post. You obviously knew that the game was starting and that it was the weekend. You didnt make any effort to phone post and say, "yo guys cant post, sorry, will do it later" or anything of the sort.
Why shouldn't I believe that you are scum marv trying to come in at the last second and sow a little chaos?
how does it benefit me or my team for me to just get lynched d1?
On December 14 2015 05:27 DarthPunk wrote: And why am I scum for it when other people have expressed similar sentiments and are town? Like, is everyone who has stated that Greymist is scummy but are not voting for him also scum?
That makes no fucking sense.
DP has a point here marv, I filtered him and unless im missing something he said im suspicious, never that I was his choice of a lynch to follow you. Why him over Rels if this is the case?
On December 14 2015 04:21 Rels wrote: Marv still hasn't posted! Good, I don't have to read anything in the few minutes I have. See you all tomorrow, I'll have a lot more time than this weekend
Well fuck
On December 14 2015 05:36 GreYMisT wrote: Well guys, we have an hour and a half to discuss marvs last posts, figure out if he is still the lynch, and if not find another. My first impression is that it seems weird that he alternates between having reads on DP and rels, but only wants to kill DP. what do you guys think about that?
In the meantime im going to look at the other options for lynch. I'm no longer confortable with rayn as a lynch. Thinking about what ritani said about his meta, and clearing up that inconsistancy i thought i saw in his post allieviated a lot of my concerns. I am looking at rels and damdred atm because I am leaning town on DP.
Softly resisting the switch off marv, then being convinced to switch anyway.
On December 14 2015 05:40 Damdred wrote: So
Damdred Rayn Marc Hydra Rels/dp/grey
Idk what to do maybe Rels today
On December 14 2015 05:41 raynpelikoneet wrote: Oh god and then you make posts like that... Now i have absolutely no idea what to do.
Like why do you just plain out refuse to consider Rels as mafia? Damdred scum over Rels, no fucking hell ever.
On December 14 2015 05:41 Damdred wrote: The bottom three are pure poe, I think Rels probably has the highest chance of flipping scum to a point.
Grey has a few weird things, and I'm just paranoid of dp tricking me again I guess,
rayn and Damdred are OK switching to me.
On December 14 2015 05:46 GreYMisT wrote: I found 2 things about rels. first this post sticks out to me:
On December 13 2015 08:32 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn I guess you would call this a 'tone' read or whatever, but I am pretty darn good at spotting a townie rayn and alot of what he says makes sense. HIs damdred read was godlike and hard to fake as I have said earlier. His questioning of Rels was also good in that it showed one of the tendencies that I can recall rayn having. That being that he loves to really comb through the things people are saying in order to find small inconsistencies or breakdowns of a normal thought Process.
But you don't have a read on Damdred after saying rayn's read is godlike ?
On December 13 2015 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: GreyMist
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
This smells like bullshit to me.
It's true it sounds like a bad excuse.
That agreement with DP at the end strikes me as really weird, but I dont know why. Maybe its becuase its really just meaningless, he doesnt use the time or space to push me or ask a question, and there really is no followup along this line from him.
and then there is a possible overreaction becuase i mentioned his name in this post:
On December 13 2015 08:32 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn I guess you would call this a 'tone' read or whatever, but I am pretty darn good at spotting a townie rayn and alot of what he says makes sense. HIs damdred read was godlike and hard to fake as I have said earlier. His questioning of Rels was also good in that it showed one of the tendencies that I can recall rayn having. That being that he loves to really comb through the things people are saying in order to find small inconsistencies or breakdowns of a normal thought Process.
But you don't have a read on Damdred after saying rayn's read is godlike ?
On December 13 2015 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: GreyMist
On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 13 2015 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i have a really hard time understanding your thought process atm so could you walk me through it. There are a couple of things:
1) Your read on Greymist. I actually find it one of the weirdest things in this game that he does not have any sort of read on me. Before your posts two of the three people posting in this game besides him and me have stated they have a townread on me. What i would think Greymist would do is to either agree with the read, or disagree with the read (let it be null/scum for him then). Instead he doesn't do any of this. I consider myself the most vocal person in this game so far besides Damdred --> i would think people would have at least some opinion on me. Apparently you do aswell now, everyone else who has posted (after our morning) does, why is it not weird for you that Greymist doesn't?
(that goes to Greymist aswell, i would like to hear an explanation to this)
2) Your read on RtaniSoul. You think they are second likely to be mafia (calling marv mafia here is just straight out bullshit), based on the fact all they did is call your #1 scumread scum?!?!?! How on earth does this make any sense at all?
3) Why is your vote on someone you can't possibly have any read on instead on someone who you DO apparently have a read on, and you legitmately, based on you, think is mafia?
I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me.
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.
It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be.
This smells like bullshit to me.
It's true it sounds like a bad excuse.
prompting him to 3rd party defend rayn. maybe im reaching but I'd be ok with a rels lynch if thats the play.
Magically GM finds two weird things in my filter; one that is not scum indicative and one that is wrong.
On December 14 2015 05:50 GreYMisT wrote: oh and ##Unvote: Marvellosity
You guys are right, although a scum or town marv could enter the game like that, its not alignment indicitave.
I'm going to vote Rels until we figure out whats what
##Vote: Rels
Switching to me without really comitting (until we figure out whats what).
On December 14 2015 05:50 GreYMisT wrote: oh and ##Unvote: Marvellosity
You guys are right, although a scum or town marv could enter the game like that, its not alignment indicitave.
I'm going to vote Rels until we figure out whats what
##Vote: Rels
This post though rayn has me super skeptical on gm here.
Myself and you (and policy lynching marv which he somewhat disagrees wirh) are his top scum reads or his strongest ones.
Marv seems to ignore his question he asked about his spotty mafia play. Gm doesn't seem to care and basically follows onto Rels who are his top scum reads scum.
Then comes up with a reason but then doesn't try to figure more out.
Its weird
I'd be pusing marv more about it, but right berfore i posted that he said he was leaving and evidently he did. So, like ryan said, we either have to lynch marv because fuck it, or we lynch someone else. I feel weirder about rels than I do about anyone else, for the reasons i pointed out. and am most comfortable with that atm.
On December 14 2015 06:39 GreYMisT wrote: As will I
marv is still scummy but Rels is weirder.
On December 14 2015 06:42 GreYMisT wrote: That is what I was starting to get at with my question to him, weird that he pushes DP but spends seemingly more time analyzing Rels. Its easier to analyze teammates, especially ones who dont seem, at the time, like they are the target that day.
However, Im not sold on Marv being mafia, his focus seemed weird but he did all of that in like a one hour period. Even though it seemed all over the place to me it seemed genuine.
If marv is mafia he's partner with Rels. But marv might no be mafia (but Rels is still mafia)
I come to the thread.
On December 14 2015 06:43 GreYMisT wrote: Rels we need another target other than Marv, what do you have and why
On December 14 2015 06:43 GreYMisT wrote: Or if it is still marv after his appearance explain
Weird thing to say 17 minutes before deadline.
On December 14 2015 06:53 GreYMisT wrote: Im staying on rels
On December 14 2015 06:58 GreYMisT wrote: I don't think marv is the lynch today, you are all panicking
Yes I was reading it you don't need to link me that shit.
]Anyway I get what you mean in that his arguments shifted and were created out of thin almost in those discussions with you.
Yep, he made up an a reason to explain why he posted something; then said he made a mistake and that the reason wasn't true. I think it's impossible for a someone to make up a reason to explain one of his own post if he's town.
^ To resume this big post; he softly tried to fight the switch off marv but was "convinced to do it => NAI, possible for both alignement. Sheeped marv and rayn' will to switch to me by finding two bullshit reasons => scum indicative. Doesn't really commit to the vote on me and still show doubts when I enter the thread => scum indicative. Doesn't want to switch off me to the scum lynch => NAI, possible for both alignement
Yes I was reading it you don't need to link me that shit.
]Anyway I get what you mean in that his arguments shifted and were created out of thin almost in those discussions with you.
Yep, he made up an a reason to explain why he posted something; then said he made a mistake and that the reason wasn't true. I think it's impossible for a someone to make up a reason to explain one of his own post if he's town.
The bolded is very, very untrue.
Can you link me to one example ?
Pretty sure I've done it myself. Look at any bad townies bad post-hoc rationalizations for things. Like that is one of the biggest reasons bad townies get mislynched.
No, I'm not going to look for a specific example for you. But I assure you it does happen. (like I'm also pretty sure rayn has raged at bad townies doing this at least once)
I've seen him only one time, I cased the guy, he was scum. I'm not talking about bad reasonning or whatever; when asked to explain one of his own post, he made up a reason! I don't believe it's possible for a townie to do that.
On December 15 2015 19:58 DarthPunk wrote: Have you played with marv much Rels?
I think only one game, why ? I also hosted two games in which he played.
Because at one point in TL mafia history, around the time when GreyMist and I played a lot off mafia, marv was considered a legitimate god at the game. Like the Flash of TL mafia.
Coming from that mindset or perspective that marv is super super good and could singlehandidly the game it is an intimidating prospect to lynch him for ??? reasons.
Like Rayn did have a very good reason later on but at first it was cause he was AFK all weekend (which he is also known for if you have played with him a lot) given this historical context between the players it actually makes sense somewhat that GreyMist was reacting to the marv lynch this way.
And it also makes sense that you would not necessarily notice this because you lack the historical context and marv has probably (certainly?) dropped off from his prime playing days.
OK. The biggest thing is still not explainable from a townie mindset; damdred and rayn (GM's former scumreads until 2 minutes before apparently) talks about switching to me; GM finds two bullshit reasons just to say he's not sheeping rayn & Damdred, then switch to me. It just screams scum and it is extremely different from the mindset rayn & Damdred had.
1) I dont understand the question 2) it looks like you are panicing and not trying to actually find scum. A town player in that situation would try to help and get the vote off of him, you said "shut up scum" voted rayn, realized that wasnt happening, and voted off. 3) and I think i might have misquoted as you said. I see it as a 3rd party defense because I posted suspicions of ryan, and you came in and broke down the post instead of waiting to see how rayn would react to it, like I would assume a town would who wants more information.
1. You said that about rayn: First, the way he jumped onto Rels with Damdred seems a bit rushed and oppertunistic to me. As if he is testing the waters to see if he can get something rolling. Then you said you didn't have a read on me atm. How can rayn be opportunisticly jumping on me if you don't townread me ?
BTW I DROPPED IT BECAUSE THE OTHER THING WAS 100% SCUM INDICATIVE, BUT THIS IS ALSO SCUM INDICATIVE.
On December 15 2015 23:52 raynpelikoneet wrote: Shh.. It was quite obvious from the moment he started questioning my logic on the claim.
Cool. Any chance it's not DP ? If not game is over.
DP literally said he is not the doctor.
Talking about scum.
Oh so now you care? I thought the game was over?
I always cared. I want to win.
Well you didn't care enough to answer my concerns on you at the deadline and after. Neither did Greymist but that's understandable since he is the doctor (although he should have claimed earlier).
OK I agree to this. Let's speed this up if we can. If arsoul is scum that explains their terribleness. If they are town I can mock them forever. If DP is scum I can blame you all. If rayn is scum, fucking WP on the marv lynch.
Can every one of you do a post resuming why you scumread me ? For post game hilarity =D 'cause I have no idea how I ended up in the bottom of everyone's list that game.
On December 16 2015 00:10 Rels wrote: =D funny guy. I can't fucking believe greymist forgot the reason he made an accusation post.
Yeah i find that quite hilarious aswell but instead of like.. idk.. .answering people's concerns on you you decided to use all this time in telling why you are 100% sure he is mafia, when you had made your point already.
I have no idea what question you want me to answer. In your list of points against me, only the "pointless questionning" stuff is false. The rest I cannot prove to be wrong, except that nothing is alignement indicative.
On December 16 2015 00:10 Rels wrote: =D funny guy. I can't fucking believe greymist forgot the reason he made an accusation post.
Yeah i find that quite hilarious aswell but instead of like.. idk.. .answering people's concerns on you you decided to use all this time in telling why you are 100% sure he is mafia, when you had made your point already.
I have no idea what question you want me to answer. In your list of points against me, only the "pointless questionning" stuff is false. The rest I cannot prove to be wrong, except that nothing is alignement indicative.
ehh you literally said yourself "i don't know what i was doing on D1, my filter looks terrible". How is that fucking false?
Maybe if you read the sentence again you will see I say "only the "pointless questionning" stuff is false" (=
On December 16 2015 00:21 raynpelikoneet wrote: Like, let's say you have asked ~100 questions that should lead you somewhere in this game. In my opinion ~97 of those 100 questions are completely pointless and can't ever lead to finding mafia.
On December 16 2015 00:21 raynpelikoneet wrote: Like, let's say you have asked ~100 questions that should lead you somewhere in this game. In my opinion ~97 of those 100 questions are completely pointless and can't ever lead to finding mafia.
Well if that's your opinion whatever.
Well in the end, at this point you have ended up with "rayn must be scum" when i was pushing a lynch on mafia. And you have also ended up with "this guy who is quite clearly the doctor if i read the thread properly"...
So... idk, if you are town maybe you should have taken my advice after D1 and take a step back and sometimes think before you post..
Yep it's my fault if I'm being lynched for no reason, got it. I understand attacking you at deadline was dumb. I don't understand how GM is not scum here though.
On December 16 2015 00:27 RtaniSoul wrote: Tina is very happy about being right. When she heard marv started posting and I said this might make him town she instantly said "but who else could rels be scum with?"
On December 16 2015 00:27 RtaniSoul wrote: Tina is very happy about being right. When she heard marv started posting and I said this might make him town she instantly said "but who else could rels be scum with?"
On December 16 2015 00:27 RtaniSoul wrote: Tina is very happy about being right. When she heard marv started posting and I said this might make him town she instantly said "but who else could rels be scum with?"
Wait. What time are you talking about exactly ?
LOL yes that cannot be interpreted another way. It's a time AFTER marv started posting but BEFORE his alignement was known. Arsoultin didn't post a single post during that period. So they were observing but didn't post in the crisis that was EOD1.
Concede please (= I'm super happy you're not bad townies. I was super mad this morning about your badness but I couldn't consider you town over GM making up a reason for his own post.
On December 16 2015 00:27 RtaniSoul wrote: Tina is very happy about being right. When she heard marv started posting and I said this might make him town she instantly said "but who else could rels be scum with?"
Wait. What time are you talking about exactly ?
LOL yes that cannot be interpreted another way. It's a time AFTER marv started posting but BEFORE his alignement was known. Arsoultin didn't post a single post during that period. So they were observing but didn't post in the crisis that was EOD1.
We checked in to check once when marv was posting and then everyone was switching to rels and we were fine with that. After that we got the deadline wrong by an hour so we missed that part.
On December 16 2015 00:38 Rels wrote: Concede please (= I'm super happy you're not bad townies. I was super mad this morning about your badness but I couldn't consider you town over GM making up a reason for his own post.
You tried so hard and got so far but in the end you're still getting lynched today or tomorrow
Man if I lose this game because you saw that marv posted but didn't bother writing stuff, I have no problem (= actually if you're town I want us to concede. Now way scum should lose here.
On December 16 2015 00:43 GreYMisT wrote: We still have a day. I would ask that the town don't come down upon Rels like I sense we are about to. This day can either be entirly about him defending himself and getting lynched anyway, or it can be about him trying to find the other scum through good methods.
Though if you just keep quoting Rtani and saying "conceed" I will quickly reevaluate my position.
Do you think it's believable that artasoul saw marv post during EOD1 but didn't bother writing stuff while everyone else was panicking ?
On December 16 2015 00:46 GreYMisT wrote: Rels can you do me a favor please
Yep doc. Sry for the aggressiveness earlier, I know it's hard to be on the receiving end of aggressive questionning. Even if I don't understand how the fuck you could invent something that didn't exist.
On December 16 2015 00:27 RtaniSoul wrote: Tina is very happy about being right. When she heard marv started posting and I said this might make him town she instantly said "but who else could rels be scum with?"
Wait. What time are you talking about exactly ?
LOL yes that cannot be interpreted another way. It's a time AFTER marv started posting but BEFORE his alignement was known. Arsoultin didn't post a single post during that period. So they were observing but didn't post in the crisis that was EOD1.
We checked in to check once when marv was posting and then everyone was switching to rels and we were fine with that. After that we got the deadline wrong by an hour so we missed that part.
No GM it's not possible this behaviour comes from town. And if that's the case, they should lose.
On December 16 2015 00:46 GreYMisT wrote: Rels can you do me a favor please
Yep doc. Sry for the aggressiveness earlier, I know it's hard to be on the receiving end of aggressive questionning. Even if I don't understand how the fuck you could invent something that didn't exist.
Not really, I didnt mind it. I was never going to get lynched this game, doubt I would have even if I wasnt the doc (would have not played as a blue in that case)
I have you in one of 2 categories: you are either overzealous town, or new/panicking mafia. To figure out if you are town or mafia I'd like you to just post your thoughts about Rayn, DP, and Rtani. just a paragraph about each is fine, feel free to copy and paste earlier analysis you have done, I just dont want to see "he is scum" be the only thing there.
Cool.
rayn is town 'cause he could have lynched me easily during EOD1. rayn is an extremely mechanical player, if he can gain an advantage to win the game he will do it.
DP is probably town because marv voted him at EOD. marv knows he's a respectable player and even only posting 10 minutes, he could get DP lynched. If that's not enough, I feel like he's scumhunting and not faking his thoughts. Like a few hours ago; he went in, gave his thoughts on arsoul you and I, and these thoughts were logical; he didn't think the misstep you did made you scum, he found my attitude townie, he didn't like arsoul's not caring about the game.
arsoul is scum for what they just posted. But if you want to know more, I made this post when I still was sure you were scum about why I was disappointed with their play: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/499921-really-small-mafia-ii?page=27#535 Their basis for their reads are bad. Like apparently you are town because you have a townie tone and because you wouldn't attack rayn & Damdred as scum. This is a very bad reason to townread someone. There also was a moment where they townread me 'cause "Why would he not scumread us as scum ?" That's really bad. They also are not caring about the game. Evidently, they didn't post during EOD + 13 hours after it; and they're not trying to solve the game.
On December 12 2015 23:27 Rels wrote: ##Vote marv Do stuff or die.
Otherwise here is my mind atm:
rayn Damdred grey
Arta/rsoul marv
DP
I told lex when I first saw this post that if marv is scum, Rels had a good chance of being his partner for this. It's completely lining up the switch from marv to DP the moment marv posts. There's nothing here to suggest he'd even think twice about it or that it's a real scumread. Also, note that this post came well before marv had been absent long enough from the thread to start getting a mountain of votes.
This is not a scum indicator; this is a narrative. I would arguee that I wouldn't put a vote on my teammate this early in the game, especially since I had DP as potential scum; but this if WIFOM and cannot be used to determine alignment.
On December 16 2015 12:01 RtaniSoul wrote: Point 2: marv votes DP and not Rels. Even if we assume that he really did AFK as scum while being lynched after returning to the thread last minute to try to squirm out of a lynch, he was still in the thread when rayn voted Rels at the very least. He did not vote to survive, and we know that this was not because he was town. That makes it very likely that Rels is scum!
This is WIFOM. marv was scum, so he did what he wanted to give his team the best chance of success. And here you find weird that marv did not vote me if I'm not scum; but above you say me being scum matches with me switching off him. Why do you not consider the possibility that I'm town seeing the exact thing you're finding weird and decided marv might be town ?
On December 16 2015 12:01 RtaniSoul wrote: Point 3: Rels doesn't actually believe what he's saying when he says our "reasons" are bad for our reads. Specifically, Rels stated in the scum QT of Drams that it made sense that rayn sided (incorrectly) with his fake claim because he was being logical while I sided (entirely correctly) with the real RBer for...his townie tone. Not only did he recognize that rsoultin bases her reads on tone, but he used some of her reads in his towngame that just ended. This is made up to attempt to throw scum on us and he doesn't really believe it.
This is bad. Only once in my rage post did I call you out of a read based on tone; on the very last sentence. You adequating "me saying you have bad reads" and "me saying you have bad reads because these reads are based on tone" is disforming what I've said. Now I've said your GM read is bad: it was based on (1) a townie tone and (2) WIFOM. Guess what. GM himself said he played differently because he was blue, so I have no idea how you could not find his tone "scummy". I know he looked dodgy to me when I interrogated him. Now I return the compliment. rsoultin was able to townread me in a game then scumread me in another based on how I nitpick stuff. Her not being able to see I'm town here when it's obvious to anyone who knows me is another sign that you've probably decided I was the best mislynch to victory.
On December 16 2015 12:01 RtaniSoul wrote: Point 4: Rels is try-harding. Town, unless they believe there is scum in rayn/dp, doesn't need to try-hard. We've won! Bad townies will look at Rels and go damn, he's trying so hard, he must be town. But they're missing the obvious. Only scum needs to try here. Joke's on him, though No amount of try-harding will keep him from being lynched Day 3.
I always tryhard, so this is NAI. BTW you're the one tryharding right there. (=
Do it or don't. Nobody will beg you for a DP analysis. Of course if you make a slam dunk case, rayn will listen. Look how he turned around when I've found that GM had made up an explanation for his own post.
On December 16 2015 19:27 DarthPunk wrote: I don't get why if the hydra say they look scummy cause they don;t give a fuck and it doesn't matter, why do they suddenly start giving a fuck while still pretending to NOT give a fuck?
Doesn't make sense from a town perspective IMO. Like i think as town you either care about the game or you don't I don;t think townies will mess around with how they are perceived like the hydra is doing.
You can stop trying to analyze our alignment now. We're flipping today and are fine with it since it's the only way to legitimize our reads at this point. If we somehow get Rels lynched before us today we're always getting lynched over you if you're scum anyway so this approach seems smarter to us.
On December 16 2015 19:30 Rels wrote: Do it or don't. Nobody will beg you for a DP analysis. Of course if you make a slam dunk case, rayn will listen. Look how he turned around when I've found that GM had made up an explanation for his own post.
We're not asking Rayn to beg, simply if he's open to the idea because he can have his mind made up and then there's no point and we mind as well not bother.
And you know very well he will listen if you say smart things, so it is without a point to ask such a question. Even if you didn't already played dozen of games with him, he did exactly that during N1.
Artasoul, your play disgust me. I have a super high opinion of you rsoul, so I really really hope you're scum. When rayn changed his mind about GM you mocked him:
On December 15 2015 07:09 RtaniSoul wrote: Okay, we've decided to re-evaluate everything and we've come to some shocking revelations.
After rereading over all the posts, we've decided Rayn is the most likely scum. He was inconsistent in his reads on Greymist. At first, he didn't want to lynch him, then suddenly he does. It just doesn't make any sense.
Secondly, we also think Damdred is mafia. LoneMeow is a bastard host and it was actually Rels who flipped vanilla town. Marv was also town.
DarthPunk we aren't sure on. We thought he might be town because he buddied people early but then he started making posts that made sense so now we're not sure.
GreYMisT.. Well, we thought he was town for everything but then he misconstrued something he once said in an argument about an argument in an argument so we guess he's mafia anyway.
Unfortunately this means the game is already lost because there's too many mafia
You were into this "sarcastically not caring" mode when you were sure either GM or I were scum, but you mocked rayn for scumreading GM instead of I all the same. And now you're begging for him to pleeaaaaase listen to you if you do us the great honor of fucking playing the game.
And here, after DP said he was not the doc, you continued pushing the notion that the scum was in Rels / GM:
On December 15 2015 23:38 RtaniSoul wrote: Quite simply, the doctor should claim so there's no chance of a scum fake claim in lylo/mylo (with a couple possible exceptions that should be obvious).
We could try hard here, but what's the point? Lynch Rels, and if he for some weird reason flips town, lynch GM. DP is right; if GM is scum it's not for that. To us the game is basically solved? So no, we really don't care anymore, especially when we were getting scumreads for being too clean. Newsflash: we're townie because we're town, not some stupid bullshit mindfuck only scum players are townie narrative. (Yes, I'm looking at you, rayn.)
When it was clear that only GM could be doc. You're not playing the game, and now you want to be begged to bother reading a five pages filter.
Yep. I don't think this big post can have a town motivation, unless they feel super guilty and have the need to express themselves but don't want to admit it.
On December 16 2015 21:04 RtaniSoul wrote: Honestly, Rels, we started getting worried that DP was the last scum and not you and Lex wanted to put more work in than I really felt inclined to, which started this whole thing.
You're right. Most of what was in that case was circumstantial and weak. It could make you scum but it doesn't definitively mean anything. I do remember going over with you looking at things from both sides, and I do know how you think and yes that has been reflected in this game, though I think you're good enough to at least replicate your thought process as scum.
If you're town here and for the sake of this post and because of our doubts I'm going to assume that's the case for the moment, take a second to think about what our perspective is as town looking at this game. You have to be the last scum unless we're wrong on rayn or DP, and we're almost as certain as we can be that rayn is town. Basically we're looking at the same game as you are, only in reverse. And the way the thread stands now, if DP is scum here, he will definitely win this game hands down. I think maybe you have a better chance of pushing him tomorrow than we do which is why we're happy to flip first, and also that we know our reads will at least be accepted as genuine after we flip.
The thing is, EoD with marv and rayn's certainty had us pretty much not even questioning DP as town. But if you're scum here you're pretty much an asshole (lol, don't take that to heart, but yeah, playing pretty dirty making me feel guilty xP). We've been enjoying Lex's time here and not prioritizing the thread. We're not really apologetic about that; I'd rather have fun with him here.
What we want here is very simple.
We aren't trying to get anyone to lynch anyone but us. We're not going to defend ourselves. We're not going to talk about our alignment.
We honestly didn't want to waste time on our holiday looking into DP if rayn was dead-set on him being town, because we'd rather enjoy ourselves, but we'll do it for you Rels in the event you're town because I'd feel awful not to and let you get mislynched in lylo after you just got mislynched your last game.
So just do us a favor and don't ride us? We're getting lynched anyway. We don't need the distractions and we will get distracted cause we're horrible about letting things go and will just argue instead of look into things.
Lol, sorry about the shit game. Lazy hydras were being lazy
I don't think this post is likely to come from town.
First the potential scum motivation here is obvious: appeal to emotion so they look townie. So let's look at potential town motivation.
I have two problems when I try to imagine this coming from townies.
One A general impression: Artasoul rescinds their "Rels is 100% scum" mentality to go to "Mm maybe Rels is town we need to look at DP". The thing is it's been a few hours since they anounced DP might actually be the last scum, since that post:
On December 16 2015 18:08 Rels wrote: arsoul will you try tomorrow if we lynch me ? I wanna see how you try to get DP lynched. This is extremely tempting.
If you get lynched before us and are town there's no way DP will get lynched, no way Rayn will listen to us. We're actually thinking of really going over DP one more time before the flip just to make sure you're the scum, but there wouldn't be a point to that if Rayn is unwilling to consider him. Which means it's actually better for us to get lynched first. So, to Rayn:
If we analyze DP and end up thinking he's more likely scum than Rels, will you listen to us after we flip town?
##Unvote ##Vote RtaniSoul
and all they did since is say "mm maybe DP is the last scum and we were wrong", without nothing to show for it. A townie would have looked for why DP might be scum before saying such a thing. It's even truer since they are hydras, so they can talk about stuff like this together; I don't understand the townie motivation of posting "DP might actually the last scum" without having looked for it; then continue to not look for it; but do big emotionnal posts about why they are doing it. The only motivation for doing this (explaining themselves while doing nothing) is appearing good. And the only motivation for a townie to appear good is if they feel guilty about playing bad and tunneling me. It is a possibility, but I don't think it is likely at all.
Two On one detail: they say "But if you're scum here you're pretty much an asshole (lol, don't take that to heart, but yeah, playing pretty dirty making me feel guilty xP)" Well, the little post I made above is nothing compared to that one I made yesterday:
On December 15 2015 07:09 RtaniSoul wrote: Okay, we've decided to re-evaluate everything and we've come to some shocking revelations.
After rereading over all the posts, we've decided Rayn is the most likely scum. He was inconsistent in his reads on Greymist. At first, he didn't want to lynch him, then suddenly he does. It just doesn't make any sense.
Secondly, we also think Damdred is mafia. LoneMeow is a bastard host and it was actually Rels who flipped vanilla town. Marv was also town.
DarthPunk we aren't sure on. We thought he might be town because he buddied people early but then he started making posts that made sense so now we're not sure.
GreYMisT.. Well, we thought he was town for everything but then he misconstrued something he once said in an argument about an argument in an argument so we guess he's mafia anyway.
Unfortunately this means the game is already lost because there's too many mafia
You're bad. You're two players, and you two are the worst players in this game.
On December 12 2015 13:52 RtaniSoul wrote: *sanctioned message by both heads
We are seeking a third head. Please apply.
Unless your name is DP and your nose is firmly up everyone's ass already.
Carry on ^^
That's how he posts.
Game?
I've been mislynched once on this site, in large part because I failed to convince geript that DP was a skeezy scumbucket with a geript in his pocket. Artie remembers Imperial and remembers a more aggressive DP. I glanced through the town game before that just in case replacing in might have had an effect on DP's play, but no dice. Aggressive there right out the starting gate.
These are only a few games, but given they support the perception we already have...
Where you getting this from, rayn?
-waves at DP- Because pointing out that you're buddying people is definitely not worth mentioning or anything ^^ We up for a round two?
On December 12 2015 13:52 RtaniSoul wrote: *sanctioned message by both heads
We are seeking a third head. Please apply.
Unless your name is DP and your nose is firmly up everyone's ass already.
Carry on ^^
That's how he posts.
Game?
I've been mislynched once on this site, in large part because I failed to convince geript that DP was a skeezy scumbucket with a geript in his pocket. Artie remembers Imperial and remembers a more aggressive DP. I glanced through the town game before that just in case replacing in might have had an effect on DP's play, but no dice. Aggressive there right out the starting gate.
These are only a few games, but given they support the perception we already have...
Where you getting this from, rayn?
-waves at DP- Because pointing out that you're buddying people is definitely not worth mentioning or anything ^^ We up for a round two?
This is the last game i remember playing with DarthPunk when we were both town. This is his filter in the game.
Basically i know DP is usually aggressive and i can see where you are coming from. Obviously it's nor out of the realm of possibilities he is mafia here, but i disagree in him not being "aggressive enough" makes him mafia. He treats different people differently, and i know for a fact he buddies to strong players (if you read the filter the "proof" is there).
Basically this game is filled with people who in my opinion do not respond well -- or at all -- to pressure, at least unfounded pressure (i mean situations where the game has went on for hours and there is not really anything scummy in thread -- disagree?). At the time you called him out, what in your opinion should he have done as town? Should he have questioned something? Should he have pressured something more? In my opinion, when i read the thread at that point, i didn't see anything wrong -- which is i, myself decided to comment on the only read i could be even semi-sure of.
Also bringing up Imperial is in my opinion a bit of a misjudgement (or what the fuck is the word). He replaced into a game on N3...... Of course there is going to be some reads he has rofl. If he hadn't any reads on a thread that is @ N3, he could just quit mafia. Comparing that game to this one (at 6 hours into the game with only 3 people properly even posting) is quite a stretch.
Then BEFORE RECONSIDERING IT, YOU POST THE FUCKING SAME READ TWO MORE TIMES, THEN YOU SAY "OK RAYN WAS RIGHT WE WERE WRONG". WHY DID YOU REPOST THE SAME READ WITHOUT CHECKING WHAT RAYN SAID ??????? ITS USELESS, IT CLUTTERS THE THREAD, IT DOESNT HAVE A PURPOSE
On December 13 2015 01:10 RtaniSoul wrote: P.S. Thanks rayn! I'll take a look at your link...later? Maybe when I'm waiting at the airport to pick up Lex. Also, just to be clear, my point was the buddying and not the aggression...I am well aware that DP can be aggressive as either alignment, and we are both aware that Imperial is different, which is why I looked up the other town game (Avogadro, to be precise). So let me rephrase. Buddying without pushing anything early game is what caught our attention.
On December 14 2015 00:15 RtaniSoul wrote: About the reiteration Our concern is essentially what we're outlining below. Not the fact that DP is buddying, or that he's not aggressive in isolation, but that he's a non-entity. Those are distinctly different in our minds than saying oh look! DP is buddying people! He must be scum! Or DP is not being aggressive enough! He must be scum! It is more of an overall feel for his presence (or lack thereof) in the thread.
Here you say DP's townread in not at all based on rayn:
On December 14 2015 21:00 RtaniSoul wrote: Lexy really thinks DP is town based on his later posting, and I'm gonna trust him over me. We realize that there wasn't much thread sentiment to move to DP and it could have been considered a safe buss attempt, but Occam's razor suggests marv doesn't put his vote on his scummate to get out of a nearly inevitable lynch. We also don't see marv risking lynching his scumbuddy because he's not likely to play afterward.
Then here it's partly based on rayn's read:
On December 14 2015 23:39 RtaniSoul wrote: In the end, we trusted rayn that buddying and lack of aggression alone doesn't make DP scum and couldn't be assed to do a meta dive.
Which bring me to a parenthesis: YOU ANSWER PARTIALLY TO QUESTIONS
Why is GM townie for scumreading Damdred & rayn, when he dropped these scumreads at the most opportunistic time (deadline) ?
You agreed with Damdred & rayn probing me concerning the marv vote here:
On December 14 2015 00:15 RtaniSoul wrote: Then there was the weird marv vote that also got pinged out by Rayn and Damdred. In the case of Marv being mafia, it gives Rels an excuse to be on him early whilst actually being able to switch to DP as soon as Marv posts.
GM found Damdred scummy about the way Damdred probed me concerning the marv vote:
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: The first is in regards to Damdred/Rels. I felt OK about Dam at first, but it struck me as interesting the way he interacted with Rels when Rels votes Marv. He asks why Rels is policy voting someone when he has a scum read on someone else, a sentiment I have no real issue with. What strikes me as strange is the way Dam seems to play up what Rels is doing as a weird play. The interaction covers most of a page when it seemed like it really didn't need to. I am suspicious of players who have lengthy interactions with others while accomplishing nothing. In addition, after this happens, DP essentially does the exact same thing and yet no reaction from Damdred. This strikes me as odd and I'd like to hear damdred's thoights about DP's vote placement.
Why do you townread GM for attacking Damdred because Damdred did something you agreed with ?
You're right. If we'd townread GM for attacking Damdred specifically for that reason, rather than because pushing damdred and rayn is a high-risk, low-reward play with scum marv afk...that would be weird.
"We townread DP because WIFOM WIFOM". That's bad but OK.
Why is GM townie for scumreading Damdred & rayn, when he dropped these scumreads at the most opportunistic time (deadline) ?
You agreed with Damdred & rayn probing me concerning the marv vote here:
On December 14 2015 00:15 RtaniSoul wrote: Then there was the weird marv vote that also got pinged out by Rayn and Damdred. In the case of Marv being mafia, it gives Rels an excuse to be on him early whilst actually being able to switch to DP as soon as Marv posts.
GM found Damdred scummy about the way Damdred probed me concerning the marv vote:
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: The first is in regards to Damdred/Rels. I felt OK about Dam at first, but it struck me as interesting the way he interacted with Rels when Rels votes Marv. He asks why Rels is policy voting someone when he has a scum read on someone else, a sentiment I have no real issue with. What strikes me as strange is the way Dam seems to play up what Rels is doing as a weird play. The interaction covers most of a page when it seemed like it really didn't need to. I am suspicious of players who have lengthy interactions with others while accomplishing nothing. In addition, after this happens, DP essentially does the exact same thing and yet no reaction from Damdred. This strikes me as odd and I'd like to hear damdred's thoights about DP's vote placement.
Why do you townread GM for attacking Damdred because Damdred did something you agreed with ?
You're right. If we'd townread GM for attacking Damdred specifically for that reason, rather than because pushing damdred and rayn is a high-risk, low-reward play with scum marv afk...that would be weird.
Your reason for townreading GM isn't good then. It's "scum wouldn't do that!" It's similar for your reason for townreading me. "scum!Rels wouldn't vote someone else than marv at EOD!" They're weak.
If those were our only reasons, then yes, they would be weak.
Also, rayn's reasons for townreading GM are excellent lol ><
OH I DIDNT MENTION IT IN THE LAST ANSWER BUT WE HAVE OTHER REASONS TOO HURR DURR END OF PARENTHESIS BECAUSE IT GOES BACK TO BAD READS:
On December 15 2015 01:06 RtaniSoul wrote: So our view on Rels' recent posting is that it feels like the tone is more townie in that he's working with us and asking questions which is more indicative of his Townplay, but the things he's trying to nail people on are things that have either already been explained or aren't that strong and it feels a bit like "hey, can I nail them on this?" "nope? damn, let me try this instead". That's kind of the impression he's leaving on us right now.
MY GOD HOW DARE RELS ASK US QUESTIONS TO SEE IF WE RE SCUM, THEN DONT FIND SOMETHING SCUMMY IN OUR ANSWERS AND GO DO SOMETHING ELSE E EZ SCUM
On December 14 2015 23:11 RtaniSoul wrote: To be honest, Rels, you just haven't written anything that has made us go "ah! that looks like a town Rels!" You seem to be gunning after whatever you can get. I described it as throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks.
BECAUSE THAT IS TOTALLY NOT HOW I SCUM HUNT USUALLY HOW DARE RELS THROW SEVERAL SPAGHETTIS AND SEE THE ONE THAT STICKS ON SCUM You scumread me for POE, which is OK, AND for asking "pointless questions trying to nail suspicions on someone" which is outrageous. THAT S TRUE, HOW DARE RELS BE SUSPICIOUS OF US WHEN WE HAD SUCH A PERFECT EOD ??? WE JUST WERE AFK DURING DEADLINE AND 13 HOURS AFTER IT BECAUSE I WAS SHOPPING THE WHOLE CITY. Oh Arta ??? uh .... he was sick
What is EVEN WORSE is that you also scumread me by POE because of this SUPERBE GM townread:
On December 14 2015 23:11 RtaniSoul wrote: we still feel that GM's approach to the game has been fairly townie in terms of tone and strategy. Damdred and Rayn as his main scumreads earlier, for example, is just not a winning play for scum when they're never getting lynched here.
We townread this experienced player because TONE and HE WOULDNT WEAR PANTS IN HIS HEAD IF HE WAS SCUM RIGHT ????
Now can you two can link me ONE time in any town game a moment where someone else ask you to explain your reasonning, and you MAKE UP A NEW ONE BEFORE REALIZING IT WASNT IT ?
And here is how they reacted to "me playing dirty":
On December 15 2015 23:38 RtaniSoul wrote: Quite simply, the doctor should claim so there's no chance of a scum fake claim in lylo/mylo (with a couple possible exceptions that should be obvious).
We could try hard here, but what's the point? Lynch Rels, and if he for some weird reason flips town, lynch GM. DP is right; if GM is scum it's not for that. To us the game is basically solved? So no, we really don't care anymore, especially when we were getting scumreads for being too clean. Newsflash: we're townie because we're town, not some stupid bullshit mindfuck only scum players are townie narrative. (Yes, I'm looking at you, rayn.)
There is a difference on their reactions to the same type of post, that they should react to the same; the only different thing is the context, as after the first post they had decided I was scum, and after the second one they had decided I might be town. Someone having different reactions based on what they have decided is likely to be scum.
On December 16 2015 22:06 Rels wrote: Yep. I don't think this big post can have a town motivation, unless they feel super guilty and have the need to express themselves but don't want to admit it.
Well this is not exactly what i expected you to say but... nvm...
Could you go read the EOD 1 and tell what do you think marv doing what he did and other people's actions (excluding Greymist) means.
Also why have you not done that before? You have the "privilege" to know you are not mafia or "you are not mafia" here, so there must be another explanation for you to marv's actions other than the obvious "he is scum with Rels".
I have read and thought about it a bunch already and I have no explanation. The clear way for marv to survive was voting me, so not doing it is a mindgame that we can only guess what the correct answer is by luck. The only thing that makes sense is that DP is probably not scum, because marv knows his reputation and knows he could cost DP his life, especially if DP really had to AFK. You and Damdred are clearly looking to lynch scum without fear of looking bad. GM looks super bad. And DP just sheeps you, which is NAI. Artasoul read the game but didn't commit to anything, which I have a hard time seeing from a townie mindset.
On December 16 2015 22:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: Fucking shit i believe DarthPunk is mafia. The reasoning for this is the following; I am throwing out everything marv ever did as WIFOM. I can't figure out what his actions mean and the answer is WIFOM any-fucking-ways. I have overlooked his play based on marv's actions and the fact that Rels was a lynch to go for the scumteam in case Rels is NOT scum, but i actually believe Damdred is right here. I believe mafia did want me to lynch instead of pushing on their own.
The huge problem i have with DP is the following. Whenever he figures out something there is literally zero follow-up and he is just waiting for everyone else to do shit. I don't think that's townie for him. The following cases; - On D1 he figures out marv is town --> no follow up on lynch, except "i will sheep rayn" - On N1/D2 he figures out Greymist is town --> no clear follow up on which one of Rels/Hydra is scum - Right here, now, he figures out Hydra is town --> no vote on Rels, WHAT OTHER OPTION HE THINKS THERE IS IF HE THINKS THE HYDRA IS TOWN?!?!?
I think he is too laid back and i don't think he is actually thinking the game as a whole and i fucking think he is scum for it.
##vote DarthPunk
You cannot use what he did at EOD1 against him, unless you have meta on that ? Cause townie do stupid shit at EOD, and sheep when they don't know what to do. On the second thing, he did say both GM and I were townie and that he would vote for Artasoul:
On December 15 2015 19:27 DarthPunk wrote: OK im around for like 15 minutes before I have to go to bed.
Some things.
I'm not the medic.
Rels looks really townie to me.
I think RSO looks bad.
I think the medic should probably claim if a save doesn't effect the number of mis-lynches we get because a confirmed townie is really strong in a small game.
Free to chat for a little if anyone is around while I read through some stuff.
On the third thing, I agree there is a lack of motivation with the unvote => nothing else done.
But it's NOTHING compared to artsoul's not caring attitude, from mocking people who are playing the game to not posting at EOD when their main suspect start posting.
On December 16 2015 22:47 RtaniSoul wrote: Also Rels, you took us way too seriously if you thought our read flip post was intended to mock people. We were just having a little fun. Nor did we intend on "begging" Rayn to consider DP. We simply wanted to know if it was something he was open to.
Yep you had a little fun, and I think it is scum indicative you did that while others were playing the game. There is 0 content in all your recent posts except the "why is Rels town and DP scum" one, only emotions, which is exactly how a scum would act in your position. Even then, your explanation to "DP is scum" is: - the worst WIFOM scumread I've ever seen. So DP is scum because marv wouldn't have played if he was scum with me ? That. Is. Not. A. Valid. Reason. - "I could see the lack of caring coming from a town DP that's convinced the game is solved, but I don't think it lines up with what he's actually saying. He still seems to pretend to try and figure out the game, but not put in any actual effort." But until 10 minutes ago, we were the two lynches and the two question marks, so the game was solved from his POV.
On December 16 2015 22:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: Like i understand the PoE here is very very important and my PoE says the Hydra is not mafia.
I don't understand why these 0 content 100% emotion posts made you changed your mind. I have a hard time seeing them coming from town, so I don't see how you reading them made you go "they are probably not scum".
Well if that is your scum plan it seemed to have fucking worked ain't that right ?
On December 16 2015 23:06 RtaniSoul wrote: Except that he still argued with us but without any conviction and then ended up unvoting us and still not having any conviction. And then when he became a possible suspect he just voted himself and went away. Surely if he actually believed the game was solved he'd get a little bit upset/a desire to play when that ended up changing?
On December 16 2015 22:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: I really don't know what else to say at the moment.
If DP is not going to do anything further i am never switching my vote. I understand this is pretty shitty if he is town as we live on the other sides of the world and we have basically not been in the thread at all at the same time due to time zones / constraints.
But still i believe this is the most likely correct answer at this point.
it's actually fine for me to die. Just make sure you get the last lynch right.
NO ITS NOT FINE UNLESS YOU ARE SURE THAT THE LAST SCUM IS ARSOUL, AND YOU ARE SURE THAT WE WILL LYNCH THEM. COME AND PLAY THE FUCKING GAME
On December 16 2015 22:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: Like i understand the PoE here is very very important and my PoE says the Hydra is not mafia.
I don't understand why these 0 content 100% emotion posts made you changed your mind. I have a hard time seeing them coming from town, so I don't see how you reading them made you go "they are probably not scum".
On December 16 2015 23:28 Rels wrote: rayn can you answer this:
On December 16 2015 23:04 Rels wrote:
On December 16 2015 22:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: Like i understand the PoE here is very very important and my PoE says the Hydra is not mafia.
I don't understand why these 0 content 100% emotion posts made you changed your mind. I have a hard time seeing them coming from town, so I don't see how you reading them made you go "they are probably not scum".
Because the people who say they won't play or try and then still do are almost always town!
I didn't see where they recently played before this post:
On December 16 2015 22:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: Like i understand the PoE here is very very important and my PoE says the Hydra is not mafia.
Every post was just emotional BS with 0 content. What would they have done if they were scum ? Roll out and die ?
On December 16 2015 18:08 Rels wrote: arsoul will you try tomorrow if we lynch me ? I wanna see how you try to get DP lynched. This is extremely tempting.
If you get lynched before us and are town there's no way DP will get lynched, no way Rayn will listen to us. We're actually thinking of really going over DP one more time before the flip just to make sure you're the scum, but there wouldn't be a point to that if Rayn is unwilling to consider him. Which means it's actually better for us to get lynched first. So, to Rayn:
If we analyze DP and end up thinking he's more likely scum than Rels, will you listen to us after we flip town?
On December 16 2015 19:27 DarthPunk wrote: I don't get why if the hydra say they look scummy cause they don;t give a fuck and it doesn't matter, why do they suddenly start giving a fuck while still pretending to NOT give a fuck?
Doesn't make sense from a town perspective IMO. Like i think as town you either care about the game or you don't I don;t think townies will mess around with how they are perceived like the hydra is doing.
You can stop trying to analyze our alignment now. We're flipping today and are fine with it since it's the only way to legitimize our reads at this point. If we somehow get Rels lynched before us today we're always getting lynched over you if you're scum anyway so this approach seems smarter to us.
On December 16 2015 19:30 Rels wrote: Do it or don't. Nobody will beg you for a DP analysis. Of course if you make a slam dunk case, rayn will listen. Look how he turned around when I've found that GM had made up an explanation for his own post.
We're not asking Rayn to beg, simply if he's open to the idea because he can have his mind made up and then there's no point and we mind as well not bother.
On December 16 2015 19:27 DarthPunk wrote: I don't get why if the hydra say they look scummy cause they don;t give a fuck and it doesn't matter, why do they suddenly start giving a fuck while still pretending to NOT give a fuck?
Doesn't make sense from a town perspective IMO. Like i think as town you either care about the game or you don't I don;t think townies will mess around with how they are perceived like the hydra is doing.
You can stop trying to analyze our alignment now. We're flipping today and are fine with it since it's the only way to legitimize our reads at this point. If we somehow get Rels lynched before us today we're always getting lynched over you if you're scum anyway so this approach seems smarter to us.
You should probably focus on burying rels now.
Wow you are treating me as a confirmed town now ?
No, but we are always getting lynched either today or tomorrow and we think we have more control over who flips tomorrow this way. You can back off now, we're flipping today.
On December 16 2015 19:30 Rels wrote: Do it or don't. Nobody will beg you for a DP analysis. Of course if you make a slam dunk case, rayn will listen. Look how he turned around when I've found that GM had made up an explanation for his own post.
We're not asking Rayn to beg, simply if he's open to the idea because he can have his mind made up and then there's no point and we mind as well not bother.
And you know very well he will listen if you say smart things, so it is without a point to ask such a question. Even if you didn't already played dozen of games with him, he did exactly that during N1.
There really isn't always a point. I know that full well from my experiences with him.
On December 16 2015 21:04 RtaniSoul wrote: Honestly, Rels, we started getting worried that DP was the last scum and not you and Lex wanted to put more work in than I really felt inclined to, which started this whole thing.
You're right. Most of what was in that case was circumstantial and weak. It could make you scum but it doesn't definitively mean anything. I do remember going over with you looking at things from both sides, and I do know how you think and yes that has been reflected in this game, though I think you're good enough to at least replicate your thought process as scum.
If you're town here and for the sake of this post and because of our doubts I'm going to assume that's the case for the moment, take a second to think about what our perspective is as town looking at this game. You have to be the last scum unless we're wrong on rayn or DP, and we're almost as certain as we can be that rayn is town. Basically we're looking at the same game as you are, only in reverse. And the way the thread stands now, if DP is scum here, he will definitely win this game hands down. I think maybe you have a better chance of pushing him tomorrow than we do which is why we're happy to flip first, and also that we know our reads will at least be accepted as genuine after we flip.
The thing is, EoD with marv and rayn's certainty had us pretty much not even questioning DP as town. But if you're scum here you're pretty much an asshole (lol, don't take that to heart, but yeah, playing pretty dirty making me feel guilty xP). We've been enjoying Lex's time here and not prioritizing the thread. We're not really apologetic about that; I'd rather have fun with him here.
What we want here is very simple.
We aren't trying to get anyone to lynch anyone but us. We're not going to defend ourselves. We're not going to talk about our alignment.
We honestly didn't want to waste time on our holiday looking into DP if rayn was dead-set on him being town, because we'd rather enjoy ourselves, but we'll do it for you Rels in the event you're town because I'd feel awful not to and let you get mislynched in lylo after you just got mislynched your last game.
So just do us a favor and don't ride us? We're getting lynched anyway. We don't need the distractions and we will get distracted cause we're horrible about letting things go and will just argue instead of look into things.
Lol, sorry about the shit game. Lazy hydras were being lazy
On December 16 2015 23:43 RtaniSoul wrote: Rels, what went through your head when we first said we wanted people to lynch us?
There is no explanation for that DP read flip. They are trying to appeal to rayn.
That does not answer my question.
Yes it does. Quote the post if I'm thinking of the wrong one.
Oh nevermind, you're right Still, that's not what I meant. The DP flip can easily be explained by the fact that we saw townie things in you.
No 'cause DP was so confirmed town before that you were not caring 'cause the game was solved; and because you see townie things from me you go "MM MAYBE DP IS NOT CONFIRMED TOWN ACTUALLY; DO WE ANALYSE HIS FILTER ? NO LETS ASK RAYN S PERMISSION FIRST AND DO EMOTIONAL POSTS FOR 2 HOURS" You appealed to rayn who did the work for you is the most likely explanation
On December 16 2015 23:43 RtaniSoul wrote: Rels, what went through your head when we first said we wanted people to lynch us?
There is no explanation for that DP read flip. They are trying to appeal to rayn.
That does not answer my question.
Yes it does. Quote the post if I'm thinking of the wrong one.
Oh nevermind, you're right Still, that's not what I meant. The DP flip can easily be explained by the fact that we saw townie things in you.
No 'cause DP was so confirmed town before that you were not caring 'cause the game was solved; and because you see townie things from me you go "MM MAYBE DP IS NOT CONFIRMED TOWN ACTUALLY; DO WE ANALYSE HIS FILTER ? NO LETS ASK RAYN S PERMISSION FIRST AND DO EMOTIONAL POSTS FOR 2 HOURS" You appealed to rayn who did the work for you is the most likely explanation
You do realize half the things you talk about occurred AFTER the thing we're asking right?
On December 16 2015 23:35 Rels wrote: Like what his the town mindset behind these:
On December 16 2015 18:08 Rels wrote: arsoul will you try tomorrow if we lynch me ? I wanna see how you try to get DP lynched. This is extremely tempting.
If you get lynched before us and are town there's no way DP will get lynched, no way Rayn will listen to us. We're actually thinking of really going over DP one more time before the flip just to make sure you're the scum, but there wouldn't be a point to that if Rayn is unwilling to consider him. Which means it's actually better for us to get lynched first. So, to Rayn:
If we analyze DP and end up thinking he's more likely scum than Rels, will you listen to us after we flip town?
On December 16 2015 19:27 DarthPunk wrote: I don't get why if the hydra say they look scummy cause they don;t give a fuck and it doesn't matter, why do they suddenly start giving a fuck while still pretending to NOT give a fuck?
Doesn't make sense from a town perspective IMO. Like i think as town you either care about the game or you don't I don;t think townies will mess around with how they are perceived like the hydra is doing.
You can stop trying to analyze our alignment now. We're flipping today and are fine with it since it's the only way to legitimize our reads at this point. If we somehow get Rels lynched before us today we're always getting lynched over you if you're scum anyway so this approach seems smarter to us.
On December 16 2015 19:30 Rels wrote: Do it or don't. Nobody will beg you for a DP analysis. Of course if you make a slam dunk case, rayn will listen. Look how he turned around when I've found that GM had made up an explanation for his own post.
We're not asking Rayn to beg, simply if he's open to the idea because he can have his mind made up and then there's no point and we mind as well not bother.
On December 16 2015 19:27 DarthPunk wrote: I don't get why if the hydra say they look scummy cause they don;t give a fuck and it doesn't matter, why do they suddenly start giving a fuck while still pretending to NOT give a fuck?
Doesn't make sense from a town perspective IMO. Like i think as town you either care about the game or you don't I don;t think townies will mess around with how they are perceived like the hydra is doing.
You can stop trying to analyze our alignment now. We're flipping today and are fine with it since it's the only way to legitimize our reads at this point. If we somehow get Rels lynched before us today we're always getting lynched over you if you're scum anyway so this approach seems smarter to us.
You should probably focus on burying rels now.
Wow you are treating me as a confirmed town now ?
No, but we are always getting lynched either today or tomorrow and we think we have more control over who flips tomorrow this way. You can back off now, we're flipping today.
On December 16 2015 19:30 Rels wrote: Do it or don't. Nobody will beg you for a DP analysis. Of course if you make a slam dunk case, rayn will listen. Look how he turned around when I've found that GM had made up an explanation for his own post.
We're not asking Rayn to beg, simply if he's open to the idea because he can have his mind made up and then there's no point and we mind as well not bother.
And you know very well he will listen if you say smart things, so it is without a point to ask such a question. Even if you didn't already played dozen of games with him, he did exactly that during N1.
There really isn't always a point. I know that full well from my experiences with him.
On December 16 2015 21:04 RtaniSoul wrote: Honestly, Rels, we started getting worried that DP was the last scum and not you and Lex wanted to put more work in than I really felt inclined to, which started this whole thing.
You're right. Most of what was in that case was circumstantial and weak. It could make you scum but it doesn't definitively mean anything. I do remember going over with you looking at things from both sides, and I do know how you think and yes that has been reflected in this game, though I think you're good enough to at least replicate your thought process as scum.
If you're town here and for the sake of this post and because of our doubts I'm going to assume that's the case for the moment, take a second to think about what our perspective is as town looking at this game. You have to be the last scum unless we're wrong on rayn or DP, and we're almost as certain as we can be that rayn is town. Basically we're looking at the same game as you are, only in reverse. And the way the thread stands now, if DP is scum here, he will definitely win this game hands down. I think maybe you have a better chance of pushing him tomorrow than we do which is why we're happy to flip first, and also that we know our reads will at least be accepted as genuine after we flip.
The thing is, EoD with marv and rayn's certainty had us pretty much not even questioning DP as town. But if you're scum here you're pretty much an asshole (lol, don't take that to heart, but yeah, playing pretty dirty making me feel guilty xP). We've been enjoying Lex's time here and not prioritizing the thread. We're not really apologetic about that; I'd rather have fun with him here.
What we want here is very simple.
We aren't trying to get anyone to lynch anyone but us. We're not going to defend ourselves. We're not going to talk about our alignment.
We honestly didn't want to waste time on our holiday looking into DP if rayn was dead-set on him being town, because we'd rather enjoy ourselves, but we'll do it for you Rels in the event you're town because I'd feel awful not to and let you get mislynched in lylo after you just got mislynched your last game.
So just do us a favor and don't ride us? We're getting lynched anyway. We don't need the distractions and we will get distracted cause we're horrible about letting things go and will just argue instead of look into things.
Lol, sorry about the shit game. Lazy hydras were being lazy
On December 16 2015 23:43 RtaniSoul wrote: Rels, what went through your head when we first said we wanted people to lynch us?
There is no explanation for that DP read flip. They are trying to appeal to rayn.
That does not answer my question.
Yes it does. Quote the post if I'm thinking of the wrong one.
Oh nevermind, you're right Still, that's not what I meant. The DP flip can easily be explained by the fact that we saw townie things in you.
No 'cause DP was so confirmed town before that you were not caring 'cause the game was solved; and because you see townie things from me you go "MM MAYBE DP IS NOT CONFIRMED TOWN ACTUALLY; DO WE ANALYSE HIS FILTER ? NO LETS ASK RAYN S PERMISSION FIRST AND DO EMOTIONAL POSTS FOR 2 HOURS" You appealed to rayn who did the work for you is the most likely explanation
You do realize half the things you talk about occurred AFTER the thing we're asking right?
On December 16 2015 23:35 Rels wrote: Like what his the town mindset behind these:
On December 16 2015 19:12 RtaniSoul wrote:
On December 16 2015 18:08 Rels wrote: arsoul will you try tomorrow if we lynch me ? I wanna see how you try to get DP lynched. This is extremely tempting.
If you get lynched before us and are town there's no way DP will get lynched, no way Rayn will listen to us. We're actually thinking of really going over DP one more time before the flip just to make sure you're the scum, but there wouldn't be a point to that if Rayn is unwilling to consider him. Which means it's actually better for us to get lynched first. So, to Rayn:
If we analyze DP and end up thinking he's more likely scum than Rels, will you listen to us after we flip town?
##Unvote ##Vote RtaniSoul
On December 16 2015 19:33 RtaniSoul wrote:
On December 16 2015 19:27 DarthPunk wrote: I don't get why if the hydra say they look scummy cause they don;t give a fuck and it doesn't matter, why do they suddenly start giving a fuck while still pretending to NOT give a fuck?
Doesn't make sense from a town perspective IMO. Like i think as town you either care about the game or you don't I don;t think townies will mess around with how they are perceived like the hydra is doing.
You can stop trying to analyze our alignment now. We're flipping today and are fine with it since it's the only way to legitimize our reads at this point. If we somehow get Rels lynched before us today we're always getting lynched over you if you're scum anyway so this approach seems smarter to us.
You should probably focus on burying rels now.
On December 16 2015 19:34 RtaniSoul wrote:
On December 16 2015 19:30 Rels wrote: Do it or don't. Nobody will beg you for a DP analysis. Of course if you make a slam dunk case, rayn will listen. Look how he turned around when I've found that GM had made up an explanation for his own post.
We're not asking Rayn to beg, simply if he's open to the idea because he can have his mind made up and then there's no point and we mind as well not bother.
On December 16 2015 19:35 RtaniSoul wrote:
On December 16 2015 19:34 Rels wrote:
On December 16 2015 19:33 RtaniSoul wrote:
On December 16 2015 19:27 DarthPunk wrote: I don't get why if the hydra say they look scummy cause they don;t give a fuck and it doesn't matter, why do they suddenly start giving a fuck while still pretending to NOT give a fuck?
Doesn't make sense from a town perspective IMO. Like i think as town you either care about the game or you don't I don;t think townies will mess around with how they are perceived like the hydra is doing.
You can stop trying to analyze our alignment now. We're flipping today and are fine with it since it's the only way to legitimize our reads at this point. If we somehow get Rels lynched before us today we're always getting lynched over you if you're scum anyway so this approach seems smarter to us.
You should probably focus on burying rels now.
Wow you are treating me as a confirmed town now ?
No, but we are always getting lynched either today or tomorrow and we think we have more control over who flips tomorrow this way. You can back off now, we're flipping today.
On December 16 2015 19:38 RtaniSoul wrote:
On December 16 2015 19:36 Rels wrote:
On December 16 2015 19:34 RtaniSoul wrote:
On December 16 2015 19:30 Rels wrote: Do it or don't. Nobody will beg you for a DP analysis. Of course if you make a slam dunk case, rayn will listen. Look how he turned around when I've found that GM had made up an explanation for his own post.
We're not asking Rayn to beg, simply if he's open to the idea because he can have his mind made up and then there's no point and we mind as well not bother.
And you know very well he will listen if you say smart things, so it is without a point to ask such a question. Even if you didn't already played dozen of games with him, he did exactly that during N1.
There really isn't always a point. I know that full well from my experiences with him.
On December 16 2015 21:04 RtaniSoul wrote: Honestly, Rels, we started getting worried that DP was the last scum and not you and Lex wanted to put more work in than I really felt inclined to, which started this whole thing.
You're right. Most of what was in that case was circumstantial and weak. It could make you scum but it doesn't definitively mean anything. I do remember going over with you looking at things from both sides, and I do know how you think and yes that has been reflected in this game, though I think you're good enough to at least replicate your thought process as scum.
If you're town here and for the sake of this post and because of our doubts I'm going to assume that's the case for the moment, take a second to think about what our perspective is as town looking at this game. You have to be the last scum unless we're wrong on rayn or DP, and we're almost as certain as we can be that rayn is town. Basically we're looking at the same game as you are, only in reverse. And the way the thread stands now, if DP is scum here, he will definitely win this game hands down. I think maybe you have a better chance of pushing him tomorrow than we do which is why we're happy to flip first, and also that we know our reads will at least be accepted as genuine after we flip.
The thing is, EoD with marv and rayn's certainty had us pretty much not even questioning DP as town. But if you're scum here you're pretty much an asshole (lol, don't take that to heart, but yeah, playing pretty dirty making me feel guilty xP). We've been enjoying Lex's time here and not prioritizing the thread. We're not really apologetic about that; I'd rather have fun with him here.
What we want here is very simple.
We aren't trying to get anyone to lynch anyone but us. We're not going to defend ourselves. We're not going to talk about our alignment.
We honestly didn't want to waste time on our holiday looking into DP if rayn was dead-set on him being town, because we'd rather enjoy ourselves, but we'll do it for you Rels in the event you're town because I'd feel awful not to and let you get mislynched in lylo after you just got mislynched your last game.
So just do us a favor and don't ride us? We're getting lynched anyway. We don't need the distractions and we will get distracted cause we're horrible about letting things go and will just argue instead of look into things.
Lol, sorry about the shit game. Lazy hydras were being lazy
0 explanation or filter analysis in 2 hours.
We were asking about your initial reply to the initial post, not everything that occurred afterwards that you couldn't have known when you first replied.
On December 16 2015 23:43 RtaniSoul wrote: Rels, what went through your head when we first said we wanted people to lynch us?
There is no explanation for that DP read flip. They are trying to appeal to rayn.
That does not answer my question.
Yes it does. Quote the post if I'm thinking of the wrong one.
Oh nevermind, you're right Still, that's not what I meant. The DP flip can easily be explained by the fact that we saw townie things in you.
I don't understand the townie mindset of you posting "DP might be scum, but we will appeal to rayn before doing a filter analysis". Like fuck, rayn is not even the only townie in the game in that case. If you do a case that 100% prove DP is scum and convince both GM and I, the game is also over.
On December 16 2015 22:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: I really don't know what else to say at the moment.
If DP is not going to do anything further i am never switching my vote. I understand this is pretty shitty if he is town as we live on the other sides of the world and we have basically not been in the thread at all at the same time due to time zones / constraints.
But still i believe this is the most likely correct answer at this point.
it's actually fine for me to die. Just make sure you get the last lynch right.
NO ITS NOT FINE UNLESS YOU ARE SURE THAT THE LAST SCUM IS ARSOUL, AND YOU ARE SURE THAT WE WILL LYNCH THEM. COME AND PLAY THE FUCKING GAME
On December 16 2015 23:47 Rels wrote: [quote] There is no explanation for that DP read flip. They are trying to appeal to rayn.
That does not answer my question.
Yes it does. Quote the post if I'm thinking of the wrong one.
Oh nevermind, you're right Still, that's not what I meant. The DP flip can easily be explained by the fact that we saw townie things in you.
No 'cause DP was so confirmed town before that you were not caring 'cause the game was solved; and because you see townie things from me you go "MM MAYBE DP IS NOT CONFIRMED TOWN ACTUALLY; DO WE ANALYSE HIS FILTER ? NO LETS ASK RAYN S PERMISSION FIRST AND DO EMOTIONAL POSTS FOR 2 HOURS" You appealed to rayn who did the work for you is the most likely explanation
You do realize half the things you talk about occurred AFTER the thing we're asking right?
On December 16 2015 23:35 Rels wrote: Like what his the town mindset behind these:
On December 16 2015 19:12 RtaniSoul wrote:
On December 16 2015 18:08 Rels wrote: arsoul will you try tomorrow if we lynch me ? I wanna see how you try to get DP lynched. This is extremely tempting.
If you get lynched before us and are town there's no way DP will get lynched, no way Rayn will listen to us. We're actually thinking of really going over DP one more time before the flip just to make sure you're the scum, but there wouldn't be a point to that if Rayn is unwilling to consider him. Which means it's actually better for us to get lynched first. So, to Rayn:
If we analyze DP and end up thinking he's more likely scum than Rels, will you listen to us after we flip town?
##Unvote ##Vote RtaniSoul
On December 16 2015 19:33 RtaniSoul wrote:
On December 16 2015 19:27 DarthPunk wrote: I don't get why if the hydra say they look scummy cause they don;t give a fuck and it doesn't matter, why do they suddenly start giving a fuck while still pretending to NOT give a fuck?
Doesn't make sense from a town perspective IMO. Like i think as town you either care about the game or you don't I don;t think townies will mess around with how they are perceived like the hydra is doing.
You can stop trying to analyze our alignment now. We're flipping today and are fine with it since it's the only way to legitimize our reads at this point. If we somehow get Rels lynched before us today we're always getting lynched over you if you're scum anyway so this approach seems smarter to us.
You should probably focus on burying rels now.
On December 16 2015 19:34 RtaniSoul wrote:
On December 16 2015 19:30 Rels wrote: Do it or don't. Nobody will beg you for a DP analysis. Of course if you make a slam dunk case, rayn will listen. Look how he turned around when I've found that GM had made up an explanation for his own post.
We're not asking Rayn to beg, simply if he's open to the idea because he can have his mind made up and then there's no point and we mind as well not bother.
On December 16 2015 19:35 RtaniSoul wrote:
On December 16 2015 19:34 Rels wrote:
On December 16 2015 19:33 RtaniSoul wrote:
On December 16 2015 19:27 DarthPunk wrote: I don't get why if the hydra say they look scummy cause they don;t give a fuck and it doesn't matter, why do they suddenly start giving a fuck while still pretending to NOT give a fuck?
Doesn't make sense from a town perspective IMO. Like i think as town you either care about the game or you don't I don;t think townies will mess around with how they are perceived like the hydra is doing.
You can stop trying to analyze our alignment now. We're flipping today and are fine with it since it's the only way to legitimize our reads at this point. If we somehow get Rels lynched before us today we're always getting lynched over you if you're scum anyway so this approach seems smarter to us.
You should probably focus on burying rels now.
Wow you are treating me as a confirmed town now ?
No, but we are always getting lynched either today or tomorrow and we think we have more control over who flips tomorrow this way. You can back off now, we're flipping today.
On December 16 2015 19:38 RtaniSoul wrote:
On December 16 2015 19:36 Rels wrote:
On December 16 2015 19:34 RtaniSoul wrote:
On December 16 2015 19:30 Rels wrote: Do it or don't. Nobody will beg you for a DP analysis. Of course if you make a slam dunk case, rayn will listen. Look how he turned around when I've found that GM had made up an explanation for his own post.
We're not asking Rayn to beg, simply if he's open to the idea because he can have his mind made up and then there's no point and we mind as well not bother.
And you know very well he will listen if you say smart things, so it is without a point to ask such a question. Even if you didn't already played dozen of games with him, he did exactly that during N1.
There really isn't always a point. I know that full well from my experiences with him.
On December 16 2015 21:04 RtaniSoul wrote: Honestly, Rels, we started getting worried that DP was the last scum and not you and Lex wanted to put more work in than I really felt inclined to, which started this whole thing.
You're right. Most of what was in that case was circumstantial and weak. It could make you scum but it doesn't definitively mean anything. I do remember going over with you looking at things from both sides, and I do know how you think and yes that has been reflected in this game, though I think you're good enough to at least replicate your thought process as scum.
If you're town here and for the sake of this post and because of our doubts I'm going to assume that's the case for the moment, take a second to think about what our perspective is as town looking at this game. You have to be the last scum unless we're wrong on rayn or DP, and we're almost as certain as we can be that rayn is town. Basically we're looking at the same game as you are, only in reverse. And the way the thread stands now, if DP is scum here, he will definitely win this game hands down. I think maybe you have a better chance of pushing him tomorrow than we do which is why we're happy to flip first, and also that we know our reads will at least be accepted as genuine after we flip.
The thing is, EoD with marv and rayn's certainty had us pretty much not even questioning DP as town. But if you're scum here you're pretty much an asshole (lol, don't take that to heart, but yeah, playing pretty dirty making me feel guilty xP). We've been enjoying Lex's time here and not prioritizing the thread. We're not really apologetic about that; I'd rather have fun with him here.
What we want here is very simple.
We aren't trying to get anyone to lynch anyone but us. We're not going to defend ourselves. We're not going to talk about our alignment.
We honestly didn't want to waste time on our holiday looking into DP if rayn was dead-set on him being town, because we'd rather enjoy ourselves, but we'll do it for you Rels in the event you're town because I'd feel awful not to and let you get mislynched in lylo after you just got mislynched your last game.
So just do us a favor and don't ride us? We're getting lynched anyway. We don't need the distractions and we will get distracted cause we're horrible about letting things go and will just argue instead of look into things.
Lol, sorry about the shit game. Lazy hydras were being lazy
0 explanation or filter analysis in 2 hours.
We were asking about your initial reply to the initial post, not everything that occurred afterwards that you couldn't have known when you first replied.
OK let's go back then:
On December 16 2015 23:47 Rels wrote:
On December 16 2015 23:43 RtaniSoul wrote: Rels, what went through your head when we first said we wanted people to lynch us?
There is no explanation for that DP read flip. They are trying to appeal to rayn.
On December 16 2015 23:53 RtaniSoul wrote:
On December 16 2015 23:50 Rels wrote:
On December 16 2015 23:50 RtaniSoul wrote:
On December 16 2015 23:47 Rels wrote:
On December 16 2015 23:43 RtaniSoul wrote: Rels, what went through your head when we first said we wanted people to lynch us?
There is no explanation for that DP read flip. They are trying to appeal to rayn.
That does not answer my question.
Yes it does. Quote the post if I'm thinking of the wrong one.
Oh nevermind, you're right Still, that's not what I meant. The DP flip can easily be explained by the fact that we saw townie things in you.
I don't understand the townie mindset of you posting "DP might be scum, but we will appeal to rayn before doing a filter analysis". Like fuck, rayn is not even the only townie in the game in that case. If you do a case that 100% prove DP is scum and convince both GM and I, the game is also over.
Okay. We'll say here that it's possible you might have instantly assumed that we have rayn in our back pocket and he'd instantly look into DP the moment we breathed his name, therefore overriding our self-vote and not requiring any work on our part.
OK you cannot be this dumb. I don't know why you're assuming I think your plan is to instantly convert rayn to your side. I think your plan is to use emotionnal bullshit to appear townie. Furthermore, you can scream "SCUM WOULDNT WEAR PANTS ON THEIR HEADS" all you want, scum would do whatever they want with their pants for WIFOM, while townie would need a reason to wear pants in their head. So if you're town, there is a townie reasonning behind that post:
On December 16 2015 18:08 Rels wrote: arsoul will you try tomorrow if we lynch me ? I wanna see how you try to get DP lynched. This is extremely tempting.
If you get lynched before us and are town there's no way DP will get lynched, no way Rayn will listen to us. We're actually thinking of really going over DP one more time before the flip just to make sure you're the scum, but there wouldn't be a point to that if Rayn is unwilling to consider him. Which means it's actually better for us to get lynched first. So, to Rayn:
If we analyze DP and end up thinking he's more likely scum than Rels, will you listen to us after we flip town?
##Unvote ##Vote RtaniSoul
If that reasonning would be: "we found something townie in Rels, so DP might be scum; we need to filter analyse him to confirm; but we will ask rayn the lord of the game for his permission before doing it, and we will ignore the confirmed doc". I don't think it is likely.
On December 16 2015 22:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: I really don't know what else to say at the moment.
If DP is not going to do anything further i am never switching my vote. I understand this is pretty shitty if he is town as we live on the other sides of the world and we have basically not been in the thread at all at the same time due to time zones / constraints.
But still i believe this is the most likely correct answer at this point.
it's actually fine for me to die. Just make sure you get the last lynch right.
NO ITS NOT FINE UNLESS YOU ARE SURE THAT THE LAST SCUM IS ARSOUL, AND YOU ARE SURE THAT WE WILL LYNCH THEM. COME AND PLAY THE FUCKING GAME
what is this rels?
I don't know I assume you will tell me soon ?
No, explain what you were thinking.
I'm thinking that it's not fine he's thinking him getting lynched is fine.
On December 16 2015 12:01 RtaniSoul wrote: Point 2: marv votes DP and not Rels. Even if we assume that he really did AFK as scum while being lynched after returning to the thread last minute to try to squirm out of a lynch, he was still in the thread when rayn voted Rels at the very least. He did not vote to survive, and we know that this was not because he was town. That makes it very likely that Rels is scum!
This is WIFOM. marv was scum, so he did what he wanted to give his team the best chance of success. And here you find weird that marv did not vote me if I'm not scum; but above you say me being scum matches with me switching off him. Why do you not consider the possibility that I'm town seeing the exact thing you're finding weird and decided marv might be town ?
what exactly were you seeing?
marv was not voting me when it was the obvious way to survive.
On December 17 2015 00:32 raynpelikoneet wrote: Well i am back to thinking DP is town. Fuck this game is hard.
Only because you assume Artasoul would roll over and die or concede if they were scum. Show me the townie mindset behind the posts I quoted above.
I FUCKING CAN'T. I don't know if there is a scum motive or town motive, I can't do that either with your posts aswell...
I am waffling like a fucking ping pong ball and i don't even know why.. I don't find your conversation with them useful from either end rn..
This is a weird post. The scum motivation in Artasoul posts is obvious: appealing to emotions to survive. If you can't find a townie motivation, I don't see why you are not considering the scum motivation to be likely. I also don't see how you can not find a townie motivation in my posts. You could be doubtful that it's faked; but you not finding it is weird.
On December 16 2015 12:01 RtaniSoul wrote: Point 2: marv votes DP and not Rels. Even if we assume that he really did AFK as scum while being lynched after returning to the thread last minute to try to squirm out of a lynch, he was still in the thread when rayn voted Rels at the very least. He did not vote to survive, and we know that this was not because he was town. That makes it very likely that Rels is scum!
This is WIFOM. marv was scum, so he did what he wanted to give his team the best chance of success. And here you find weird that marv did not vote me if I'm not scum; but above you say me being scum matches with me switching off him. Why do you not consider the possibility that I'm town seeing the exact thing you're finding weird and decided marv might be town ?
what exactly were you seeing?
marv was not voting me when it was the obvious way to survive.
Yes, and this points towards you being town how? Like this is my biggest problem. Why does marv not vote for you if you are town? WHY THE FUCK DOES HE NOT VOTE FOR A TOWNIE WHEN IT WILL SAVE HIM 99 % OF THE TIME?!?!?!
It doesn't show I'm town. What I'm pointing out as weird is:
On December 16 2015 12:01 RtaniSoul wrote: I told lex when I first saw this post that if marv is scum, Rels had a good chance of being his partner for this. It's completely lining up the switch from marv to DP the moment marv posts.
If Artasoul finds weird that marv doesn't vote for me, it's weird they are not considering that I found it weird to and reacted by townreading marv.
On December 17 2015 00:41 raynpelikoneet wrote: because i do not think there is scum motive either. AtE is wifom at best. AtE is as much of a scum motive than it is a town motive. BECAUSE IT IS NOT ALIGNMENT INDICATIVE!!! Otherwise both the hydra and DP would be mafia.
They're appealing to you directly in that post; without checking if their gut feel is true first; and while promising to do a "filter analysis" as soon as you accept.
Arsoul you accused DP of not having a position, but I don't even know if you're still scumreading DP or if you went back to me. If you could do the "filter analysis" that was promised on both DP and I and make up your mind it would be great.
On December 16 2015 12:01 RtaniSoul wrote: Point 2: marv votes DP and not Rels. Even if we assume that he really did AFK as scum while being lynched after returning to the thread last minute to try to squirm out of a lynch, he was still in the thread when rayn voted Rels at the very least. He did not vote to survive, and we know that this was not because he was town. That makes it very likely that Rels is scum!
This is WIFOM. marv was scum, so he did what he wanted to give his team the best chance of success. And here you find weird that marv did not vote me if I'm not scum; but above you say me being scum matches with me switching off him. Why do you not consider the possibility that I'm town seeing the exact thing you're finding weird and decided marv might be town ?
what exactly were you seeing?
marv was not voting me when it was the obvious way to survive.
Yes, and this points towards you being town how? Like this is my biggest problem. Why does marv not vote for you if you are town? WHY THE FUCK DOES HE NOT VOTE FOR A TOWNIE WHEN IT WILL SAVE HIM 99 % OF THE TIME?!?!?!
It doesn't show I'm town. What I'm pointing out as weird is:
On December 16 2015 12:01 RtaniSoul wrote: I told lex when I first saw this post that if marv is scum, Rels had a good chance of being his partner for this. It's completely lining up the switch from marv to DP the moment marv posts.
If Artasoul finds weird that marv doesn't vote for me, it's weird they are not considering that I found it weird to and reacted by townreading marv.
I don't understand any of the shit you say here in this stream of quotes. It's like you are talking about two different things and somehow making it seem like they are one thing...
I'm obvious town. But marv WIFOM is a strong argument against me. The end; GG marv. I still don't understand you. You are 100% sure Artasoul is scum; then they make a bunch of posts that you say "there are AtE so they are NAI!"; and you don't scumread them anymore.
On December 16 2015 12:01 RtaniSoul wrote: Point 2: marv votes DP and not Rels. Even if we assume that he really did AFK as scum while being lynched after returning to the thread last minute to try to squirm out of a lynch, he was still in the thread when rayn voted Rels at the very least. He did not vote to survive, and we know that this was not because he was town. That makes it very likely that Rels is scum!
This is WIFOM. marv was scum, so he did what he wanted to give his team the best chance of success. And here you find weird that marv did not vote me if I'm not scum; but above you say me being scum matches with me switching off him. Why do you not consider the possibility that I'm town seeing the exact thing you're finding weird and decided marv might be town ?
what exactly were you seeing?
marv was not voting me when it was the obvious way to survive.
Yes, and this points towards you being town how? Like this is my biggest problem. Why does marv not vote for you if you are town? WHY THE FUCK DOES HE NOT VOTE FOR A TOWNIE WHEN IT WILL SAVE HIM 99 % OF THE TIME?!?!?!
It doesn't show I'm town. What I'm pointing out as weird is:
On December 16 2015 12:01 RtaniSoul wrote: I told lex when I first saw this post that if marv is scum, Rels had a good chance of being his partner for this. It's completely lining up the switch from marv to DP the moment marv posts.
If Artasoul finds weird that marv doesn't vote for me, it's weird they are not considering that I found it weird to and reacted by townreading marv.
I don't understand any of the shit you say here in this stream of quotes. It's like you are talking about two different things and somehow making it seem like they are one thing...
I'm obvious town. But marv WIFOM is a strong argument against me. The end; GG marv. I still don't understand you. You are 100% sure Artasoul is scum; then they make a bunch of posts that you say "there are AtE so they are NAI!"; and you don't scumread them anymore.
...it's weird they are not considering that I found it weird to and reacted by townreading marv.
what the fuck does this mean? Of course you are not gonna admit/say that marv did not vote for you because you are mafia. What the fuck is this sentence even TRYING to say?
You're right, it only makes sense from my PoV. This is something that point at me being scum and I can't do anything against it. So it also true it's normal Artasoul didn't consider it from "Rels is town" perspective, whatever their alignement is.
On December 16 2015 12:01 RtaniSoul wrote: Point 2: marv votes DP and not Rels. Even if we assume that he really did AFK as scum while being lynched after returning to the thread last minute to try to squirm out of a lynch, he was still in the thread when rayn voted Rels at the very least. He did not vote to survive, and we know that this was not because he was town. That makes it very likely that Rels is scum!
This is WIFOM. marv was scum, so he did what he wanted to give his team the best chance of success. And here you find weird that marv did not vote me if I'm not scum; but above you say me being scum matches with me switching off him. Why do you not consider the possibility that I'm town seeing the exact thing you're finding weird and decided marv might be town ?
what exactly were you seeing?
marv was not voting me when it was the obvious way to survive.
Yes, and this points towards you being town how? Like this is my biggest problem. Why does marv not vote for you if you are town? WHY THE FUCK DOES HE NOT VOTE FOR A TOWNIE WHEN IT WILL SAVE HIM 99 % OF THE TIME?!?!?!
It doesn't show I'm town. What I'm pointing out as weird is:
On December 16 2015 12:01 RtaniSoul wrote: I told lex when I first saw this post that if marv is scum, Rels had a good chance of being his partner for this. It's completely lining up the switch from marv to DP the moment marv posts.
If Artasoul finds weird that marv doesn't vote for me, it's weird they are not considering that I found it weird to and reacted by townreading marv.
I don't understand any of the shit you say here in this stream of quotes. It's like you are talking about two different things and somehow making it seem like they are one thing...
I'm obvious town. But marv WIFOM is a strong argument against me. The end; GG marv. I still don't understand you. You are 100% sure Artasoul is scum; then they make a bunch of posts that you say "there are AtE so they are NAI!"; and you don't scumread them anymore.
This doesn't make sense.
Fine. Then call me fucking scum and see how that goes.
No you being super unsure is town indicative actually. But either explain to me what did you find townie a these NAI posts, or realize that it's not logical for you to think that.
On December 16 2015 22:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: I really don't know what else to say at the moment.
If DP is not going to do anything further i am never switching my vote. I understand this is pretty shitty if he is town as we live on the other sides of the world and we have basically not been in the thread at all at the same time due to time zones / constraints.
But still i believe this is the most likely correct answer at this point.
it's actually fine for me to die. Just make sure you get the last lynch right.
NO ITS NOT FINE UNLESS YOU ARE SURE THAT THE LAST SCUM IS ARSOUL, AND YOU ARE SURE THAT WE WILL LYNCH THEM. COME AND PLAY THE FUCKING GAME
what is this rels?
I don't know I assume you will tell me soon ?
No, explain what you were thinking.
I'm thinking that it's not fine he's thinking him getting lynched is fine.
Why not? Only DP and I can be scum to you, right? How does his post merit that sort of reaction?
On December 16 2015 22:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: I really don't know what else to say at the moment.
If DP is not going to do anything further i am never switching my vote. I understand this is pretty shitty if he is town as we live on the other sides of the world and we have basically not been in the thread at all at the same time due to time zones / constraints.
But still i believe this is the most likely correct answer at this point.
it's actually fine for me to die. Just make sure you get the last lynch right.
NO ITS NOT FINE UNLESS YOU ARE SURE THAT THE LAST SCUM IS ARSOUL, AND YOU ARE SURE THAT WE WILL LYNCH THEM. COME AND PLAY THE FUCKING GAME
what is this rels?
I don't know I assume you will tell me soon ?
No, explain what you were thinking.
I'm thinking that it's not fine he's thinking him getting lynched is fine.
Why not? Only DP and I can be scum to you, right? How does his post merit that sort of reaction?
Cause I'm pretty sure I'm the lynch tomorrow if DP is lynched today.
If Artasoul finds weird that marv doesn't vote for me...
No, that's not what anyone is saying. Hydra is/was saying it most likely makes you mafia!!
...it's weird they are not considering that I found it weird to and reacted by townreading marv.
what the fuck does this mean? Of course you are not gonna admit/say that marv did not vote for you because you are mafia. What the fuck is this sentence even TRYING to say?
You're right, it only makes sense from my PoV. This is something that point at me being scum and I can't do anything against it. So it also true it's normal Artasoul didn't consider it from "Rels is town" perspective, whatever their alignement is.
There is no "rels is town" -perspective for anyone because YOUR REACTION IS MOST LIKELY THE SAME REGARDLESS OF YOUR AFFILIATION!!
That is the point.
Yep I agree. What I've accused rsoul of doing here is not true.
On December 16 2015 18:08 Rels wrote: arsoul will you try tomorrow if we lynch me ? I wanna see how you try to get DP lynched. This is extremely tempting.
If you get lynched before us and are town there's no way DP will get lynched, no way Rayn will listen to us. We're actually thinking of really going over DP one more time before the flip just to make sure you're the scum, but there wouldn't be a point to that if Rayn is unwilling to consider him. Which means it's actually better for us to get lynched first. So, to Rayn:
If we analyze DP and end up thinking he's more likely scum than Rels, will you listen to us after we flip town?
On December 16 2015 19:27 DarthPunk wrote: I don't get why if the hydra say they look scummy cause they don;t give a fuck and it doesn't matter, why do they suddenly start giving a fuck while still pretending to NOT give a fuck?
Doesn't make sense from a town perspective IMO. Like i think as town you either care about the game or you don't I don;t think townies will mess around with how they are perceived like the hydra is doing.
You can stop trying to analyze our alignment now. We're flipping today and are fine with it since it's the only way to legitimize our reads at this point. If we somehow get Rels lynched before us today we're always getting lynched over you if you're scum anyway so this approach seems smarter to us.
On December 16 2015 19:30 Rels wrote: Do it or don't. Nobody will beg you for a DP analysis. Of course if you make a slam dunk case, rayn will listen. Look how he turned around when I've found that GM had made up an explanation for his own post.
We're not asking Rayn to beg, simply if he's open to the idea because he can have his mind made up and then there's no point and we mind as well not bother.
On December 16 2015 19:27 DarthPunk wrote: I don't get why if the hydra say they look scummy cause they don;t give a fuck and it doesn't matter, why do they suddenly start giving a fuck while still pretending to NOT give a fuck?
Doesn't make sense from a town perspective IMO. Like i think as town you either care about the game or you don't I don;t think townies will mess around with how they are perceived like the hydra is doing.
You can stop trying to analyze our alignment now. We're flipping today and are fine with it since it's the only way to legitimize our reads at this point. If we somehow get Rels lynched before us today we're always getting lynched over you if you're scum anyway so this approach seems smarter to us.
You should probably focus on burying rels now.
Wow you are treating me as a confirmed town now ?
No, but we are always getting lynched either today or tomorrow and we think we have more control over who flips tomorrow this way. You can back off now, we're flipping today.
On December 16 2015 19:30 Rels wrote: Do it or don't. Nobody will beg you for a DP analysis. Of course if you make a slam dunk case, rayn will listen. Look how he turned around when I've found that GM had made up an explanation for his own post.
We're not asking Rayn to beg, simply if he's open to the idea because he can have his mind made up and then there's no point and we mind as well not bother.
And you know very well he will listen if you say smart things, so it is without a point to ask such a question. Even if you didn't already played dozen of games with him, he did exactly that during N1.
There really isn't always a point. I know that full well from my experiences with him.
On December 16 2015 21:04 RtaniSoul wrote: Honestly, Rels, we started getting worried that DP was the last scum and not you and Lex wanted to put more work in than I really felt inclined to, which started this whole thing.
You're right. Most of what was in that case was circumstantial and weak. It could make you scum but it doesn't definitively mean anything. I do remember going over with you looking at things from both sides, and I do know how you think and yes that has been reflected in this game, though I think you're good enough to at least replicate your thought process as scum.
If you're town here and for the sake of this post and because of our doubts I'm going to assume that's the case for the moment, take a second to think about what our perspective is as town looking at this game. You have to be the last scum unless we're wrong on rayn or DP, and we're almost as certain as we can be that rayn is town. Basically we're looking at the same game as you are, only in reverse. And the way the thread stands now, if DP is scum here, he will definitely win this game hands down. I think maybe you have a better chance of pushing him tomorrow than we do which is why we're happy to flip first, and also that we know our reads will at least be accepted as genuine after we flip.
The thing is, EoD with marv and rayn's certainty had us pretty much not even questioning DP as town. But if you're scum here you're pretty much an asshole (lol, don't take that to heart, but yeah, playing pretty dirty making me feel guilty xP). We've been enjoying Lex's time here and not prioritizing the thread. We're not really apologetic about that; I'd rather have fun with him here.
What we want here is very simple.
We aren't trying to get anyone to lynch anyone but us. We're not going to defend ourselves. We're not going to talk about our alignment.
We honestly didn't want to waste time on our holiday looking into DP if rayn was dead-set on him being town, because we'd rather enjoy ourselves, but we'll do it for you Rels in the event you're town because I'd feel awful not to and let you get mislynched in lylo after you just got mislynched your last game.
So just do us a favor and don't ride us? We're getting lynched anyway. We don't need the distractions and we will get distracted cause we're horrible about letting things go and will just argue instead of look into things.
Lol, sorry about the shit game. Lazy hydras were being lazy
On December 17 2015 00:32 raynpelikoneet wrote: Well i am back to thinking DP is town. Fuck this game is hard.
Only because you assume Artasoul would roll over and die or concede if they were scum. Show me the townie mindset behind the posts I quoted above.
I FUCKING CAN'T. I don't know if there is a scum motive or town motive, I can't do that either with your posts aswell...
I am waffling like a fucking ping pong ball and i don't even know why.. I don't find your conversation with them useful from either end rn..
Obviously they are not NAI to you since you've completely changed your mind. So please take the time to think and write in words exactly what in those posts made you think arsoul is town.
On December 17 2015 01:13 RtaniSoul wrote: Maybe it's cause of our feelings about this game that I just find DP's reaction more townie than flailing about wildly? (Sorry if you're town Rels, but that's the impression you're giving me.)
What does flailing mean exactly ? Cause the definition I have in mind doesn't describe what I've done at all.
On December 17 2015 01:13 RtaniSoul wrote: Maybe it's cause of our feelings about this game that I just find DP's reaction more townie than flailing about wildly? (Sorry if you're town Rels, but that's the impression you're giving me.)
What does flailing mean exactly ? Cause the definition I have in mind doesn't describe what I've done at all.
It means searching for something in a way that is more chaotic than systematic, in this context.
Well I don't see how I'm doing it. And it sounds better than seeing my main scumread posting in thread after 40 hours of AFK and doing nothing.
On December 17 2015 01:09 Rels wrote: Obviously they are not NAI to you since you've completely changed your mind. So please take the time to think and write in words exactly what in those posts made you think arsoul is town.
No, that is not the case. I have had really hard time figuring out what is scummy and what is not and what is townie here on this phase. I have multiple times gone through every single fucking filter in the game and tried to make some sense of it. Basically everyone has been in the "i don't fucking know category". First i thought you are most likely to be scum. Then i ditched that idea. Then i went to read DP and Hydra again. Then i thought DP is scum. Then i ditched that idea. Now i am back to thinking you are scum. I can't point to any single post, i just do not know, and the Hydra is very fucking close to you -- basically the difference between you and them is that you didn't even TRY to convince me you are town at the end of N1 (or after the post i made which i said i think you are scum in). Then you haven't made any analysis on the marv stuff. The marv stuff HAS to mean something, everyone else has made analysis of it. You haven't. It looks the worst on you, but there MUST be an explanation -- if you are town, just because it's fucking impossible there is not. And the fact you don't even try to explain that stuff makes me think you can't make up an explanation for it.
If you yourself cannot imagine an explanation as to why marv did that in case I'm town, I don't see why I should have the responsability to make up one myself. But whatever. You've said you wouldn't lynch me if I was town. I'm actually OK with you lynching me if: - I'm lynched today - you lynch artsoul tomorrow WHATEVER HAPPEN EVEN IF THEY SUCK YOUR DICK AND DP AFK FOR 72 HOURS So take your decision.
If you yourself cannot imagine an explanation as to why marv did that in case I'm town, I don't see why I should have the responsability to make up one myself.
Because it makes you look bad and it is your responsibility to prove you are town, not mine.
No. I think we cannot guess why marv voting DP instead of me. The only logical answers are "Rels is scum" and "DP is probably not scum".
On December 14 2015 05:38 Damdred wrote: Marv is town, the reason I say this is he hates giving town information if he is scum and going to roll over.
Two hours and thirty to go and he comes in and tries to fins scum? Maybe he gets lynched maybe not but I he basically Poe town and I don't think scum marv does that on his death bed+ tone.
##unvote
The only defense I have is this. marv scum meta is to not give info to town. So I think it's a mistake a look at his actions looking for a rational explanation.
On December 14 2015 00:15 RtaniSoul wrote: So here's where we're at right now.
We kind of think Damdred and Rayn are easy townreads right now. Damdred for being lighthearted and happy to interact. Rayn for not tunneling and actually attempting to interact with his reads.
Kind of leaning town on GreY. Just don't think he'd go after Damdy and Rayn when everyone and their mom is townreading them. Especially if Marv is mafia, he'd actually have to line up mislynches and no one wants to lynch either of them right now. We don't think the post about Rayn being vocal was alignment indicative, and a bunch of things in his big post stuck out as townish. One thing we didn't like though was the marv post and trying to get him modkilled instead, but that would be an easy scum tactic that doesn't make much sense in combination with trying to push damdred/rayn. We think he's just wrong mostly.
Marv is clearly scum at this point. ##Vote Marvellosity
Which leaves DP and Rels for the last scum.
Some of what Rels has posted looks okay and some of it doesn't. There's a few instances where it seems like he's throwing suspicions on people without trying to figure them out like he did The way he approached DP and our slot in a way that seems more focused on burying rather than solving. An exception to that would be this post:
On December 13 2015 19:50 Rels wrote:
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: while reading, 2 stood out to me as interesting:
The first is in regards to Damdred/Rels. I felt OK about Dam at first, but it struck me as interesting the way he interacted with Rels when Rels votes Marv. He asks why Rels is policy voting someone when he has a scum read on someone else, a sentiment I have no real issue with. What strikes me as strange is the way Dam seems to play up what Rels is doing as a weird play. The interaction covers most of a page when it seemed like it really didn't need to. I am suspicious of players who have lengthy interactions with others while accomplishing nothing. In addition, after this happens, DP essentially does the exact same thing and yet no reaction from Damdred. This strikes me as odd and I'd like to hear damdred's thoights about DP's vote placement.
How is it scum indicative ? I'm one of the scumread of Damdred, it's normal he interrogates me on my actions.
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: The first has occurred recently- forgive me for not quoting at the moment - when Ryan said he was sure that there could not be scum between DP/Hydra/ and Rels And was "certain" there was scum between myself and Marv. To begin, I don't like when people categorize like this. I feel like it benefits mafia to arbitrarily put people into categories to empose their viewpoint on the town. That isn't the main reason I didn't like the post, however.
On the contrary, I think it's town indicative for rayn to share his thought process. It's only scum indicative if you can point how what he posted is not logical or deserves a scum agenda.
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: The problem I have is his sudden change in conviction. Notice before this post he is just asking my opinion, wanting to know what I think of him (I will address this later below). And then, literally the next post he is certain either I or Marv are scum. Also consider that Marv is a guy who has not been here!You cannot be certain that someone is mafia if they have not posted. So basically, Rayn is saying here that he is certain I am mafia. It is this change in attitude, this certainty, and this hiding of his opinion by including Marv in this pairing that aroused my suspicion.
He explained why he thought that. Can you point what is wrong or scum with his logic ?
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: First, the way he jumped onto Rels with Damdred seems a bit rushed and oppertunistic to me. As if he is testing the waters to see if he can get something rolling.
You seem to consider me town since apparently Damdred / rayn attacked me too easily. Why are you townreading me ?
Where it feels like he's actually trying to work with GM.
Then there was the weird marv vote that also got pinged out by Rayn and Damdred. In the case of Marv being mafia, it gives Rels an excuse to be on him early whilst actually being able to switch to DP as soon as Marv posts.
On December 12 2015 23:27 Rels wrote: ##Vote marv Do stuff or die.
Otherwise here is my mind atm:
rayn Damdred grey
Arta/rsoul marv
DP
About the reiteration Our concern is essentially what we're outlining below. Not the fact that DP is buddying, or that he's not aggressive in isolation, but that he's a non-entity. Those are distinctly different in our minds than saying oh look! DP is buddying people! He must be scum! Or DP is not being aggressive enough! He must be scum! It is more of an overall feel for his presence (or lack thereof) in the thread.
For DP, it feels like he's buddying a bunch of players and the GM scumread seems too easy and shallow. He also spent a lot more time on his townreads than his scumreads. There just doesn't seem to be much drive to find scum in him. It's also telling that we can't really say much about his filter besides a bunch of reasons for people to be town.
Town Damdred Raynpelikoneet
Leaning Town GreYMisT
Leaning Scum Rels DarthPunk
Mafia Marvellosity
Okay, first off we admit that we have been playing this game very lackadaisically. We've been taking full advantage of being a hydra where we can work things out together. We also haven't been paying this game as much attention as it probably deserves.
That said, the above post was our reads before marv. Clearly if marv is town, as Lex thought, our two scumreads become Rels and DP. There were 5 votes on Rels when Lex checked the thread, 1 on DP and 1 on marv, so he didn't feel the need to post or change his vote while I was out. He was waiting for me to get back and we both didn't realize deadline was at 4 (our time) instead of 5.
As for my comment on Rels...he'd gone after so many people in the thread that it just seemed really unlikely he was scum with DP or GM, and we had strong townreads on Damdred and rayn. So for both of us a Rels lynch was likely to hit scum, though I wasn't assuming marv was town like Lex was. Thus we didn't care perhaps as much as we should have. There are reasons for that but we're not going to go into it.
Quite simply you have to ask yourselves why marv tries to get out of his lynch and why we don't take advantage of the Rels lynch. You could make the argument that we just assumed it would go through, and we're horrible scum players who both didn't follow thread and didn't keep track of the deadline when marv, who everyone knows doesn't like to play scum, is trying to get a mislynch.
And if you think that's likely, go ahead and lynch us. Then lynch Rels.
Is it also town indicative to not post while the person you voted for finally post something; to talk by phone (I assume ?) about the game waiting for the other person to come back; then, seeing that they missed the deadline by 1 hour, don't post anything else for 10 hours ?
On December 17 2015 01:44 raynpelikoneet wrote: .... i don't really think either the hydra or DP would ever make those posts in a way they did as mafia. The posts in itself are not alignment indicative, but the way they came out, and the situation where they were posted makes me think they come from town (Lex/Tina having a holiday together
On December 17 2015 01:51 raynpelikoneet wrote: Funny fact is Rels... Greymist considers you town and not the hydra. I am not sure at all, if we lynch the hydra, and they flip town, that Greymist is going to make the correct call in LYLO if i get shot (srsly, noone can fucking even assume Grymist didn't protect me on N1 lol).
So if you want to live another day please convince Greymist you are mafia.
He's not there right now, I'm talking to you. Can you quote the posts that made you go "well they cannot bullshit me like that" ?
On December 17 2015 01:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:d as mafia. The posts in itself are not alignment indicative, but the way they came out, and the situation where they were posted makes me think they come from town (Lex/Tina having a holiday together -- [...] And i don't know if Hydra's bullshitting capabilities are enough for this.
Talking about this. Quote the posts that makes you go "mm Arsoul is not scum 'cause they wouldn't bullshit like that".
On December 17 2015 01:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:d as mafia. The posts in itself are not alignment indicative, but the way they came out, and the situation where they were posted makes me think they come from town (Lex/Tina having a holiday together -- [...] And i don't know if Hydra's bullshitting capabilities are enough for this.
Talking about this. Quote the posts that makes you go "mm Arsoul is not scum 'cause they wouldn't bullshit like that".
and don't interfere with my question until they answer pretty please.
On December 17 2015 01:53 Rels wrote: Artasoul: you were talking by phone when Arta saw that marv posted right ?
Yeah, Tina was out doing groceries and neither of us were feeling all too well at the time so our motivation was pretty low to begin with. Then we saw everyone switching over to you and figured you were a fine lynch as well.
"Hey mate! I know you're shopping and I'm sick and Imma let you finish but you know marv just posted ? He might be town!" "But who would Rels be scum with ?" "Oh you're right! Well Rels has 5 votes on him anyway, let's not care about the game" Yep. Believable.
On December 13 2015 01:07 raynpelikoneet wrote: 2) Excuse me but how do you actually read anyone town in a game if not for "they are trying to lynch people who are likely mafia" or "their reads align with mine"? I don't mean normally in a game, i mean in this game where all people are actually capable of posting good looking posts as mafia.
Man another advice that wasn't followed. If you think the best way to read someone if their reads, look at what arsoul did today: Rels 100% scum if not it's GM => Rels 100% scum no alternative => they are being lynched => actually it might be DP 90% scum Rels 10% scum => rayn moves to DP lynch => arsoul "I love you" => rayn moves from DP lynch => arsoul scumreads me again with no alternative. Going where the wind blow for their survival.
Man this is supposed to be a high level game. rayn is terrible, trusting TONE READS he himself said were not working on experience players over scummy behaviour. DP is wasting his vote and AFKing EOD. Artasoul are the 2 worst players in the game if they are town, which is 99% unlikely.
I'm going to be mad forever at that game. You host a high level game then lynches me because Artasoul "couldn't possible make EMOTIONNAL BS" like that. Unless you're scum. Then I am OK losing, only extremely disappointed at Artanis and rsoul.
On December 17 2015 06:56 raynpelikoneet wrote: You know what. Maybe Greymist and DP are right and i am wrong. Maybe not. After all you deserve to be in this game, at least you are trying and giving a proper fight for your life. ##unvote ##vote RtaniSoul
Man I'm relieved. I'm OK to be lynched if I'm wrong and let you or DP win.
On December 16 2015 21:04 RtaniSoul wrote: Honestly, Rels, we started getting worried that DP was the last scum and not you and Lex wanted to put more work in than I really felt inclined to, which started this whole thing.
You're right. Most of what was in that case was circumstantial and weak. It could make you scum but it doesn't definitively mean anything. I do remember going over with you looking at things from both sides, and I do know how you think and yes that has been reflected in this game, though I think you're good enough to at least replicate your thought process as scum.
If you're town here and for the sake of this post and because of our doubts I'm going to assume that's the case for the moment, take a second to think about what our perspective is as town looking at this game. You have to be the last scum unless we're wrong on rayn or DP, and we're almost as certain as we can be that rayn is town. Basically we're looking at the same game as you are, only in reverse. And the way the thread stands now, if DP is scum here, he will definitely win this game hands down. I think maybe you have a better chance of pushing him tomorrow than we do which is why we're happy to flip first, and also that we know our reads will at least be accepted as genuine after we flip.
The thing is, EoD with marv and rayn's certainty had us pretty much not even questioning DP as town. But if you're scum here you're pretty much an asshole (lol, don't take that to heart, but yeah, playing pretty dirty making me feel guilty xP). We've been enjoying Lex's time here and not prioritizing the thread. We're not really apologetic about that; I'd rather have fun with him here.
What we want here is very simple.
We aren't trying to get anyone to lynch anyone but us. We're not going to defend ourselves. We're not going to talk about our alignment.
We honestly didn't want to waste time on our holiday looking into DP if rayn was dead-set on him being town, because we'd rather enjoy ourselves, but we'll do it for you Rels in the event you're town because I'd feel awful not to and let you get mislynched in lylo after you just got mislynched your last game.
So just do us a favor and don't ride us? We're getting lynched anyway. We don't need the distractions and we will get distracted cause we're horrible about letting things go and will just argue instead of look into things.
Lol, sorry about the shit game. Lazy hydras were being lazy
I don't think this post is likely to come from town.
First the potential scum motivation here is obvious: appeal to emotion so they look townie. So let's look at potential town motivation.
I have two problems when I try to imagine this coming from townies.
One A general impression: Artasoul rescinds their "Rels is 100% scum" mentality to go to "Mm maybe Rels is town we need to look at DP". The thing is it's been a few hours since they anounced DP might actually be the last scum, since that post:
On December 16 2015 18:08 Rels wrote: arsoul will you try tomorrow if we lynch me ? I wanna see how you try to get DP lynched. This is extremely tempting.
If you get lynched before us and are town there's no way DP will get lynched, no way Rayn will listen to us. We're actually thinking of really going over DP one more time before the flip just to make sure you're the scum, but there wouldn't be a point to that if Rayn is unwilling to consider him. Which means it's actually better for us to get lynched first. So, to Rayn:
If we analyze DP and end up thinking he's more likely scum than Rels, will you listen to us after we flip town?
##Unvote ##Vote RtaniSoul
and all they did since is say "mm maybe DP is the last scum and we were wrong", without nothing to show for it. A townie would have looked for why DP might be scum before saying such a thing. It's even truer since they are hydras, so they can talk about stuff like this together; I don't understand the townie motivation of posting "DP might actually the last scum" without having looked for it; then continue to not look for it; but do big emotionnal posts about why they are doing it. The only motivation for doing this (explaining themselves while doing nothing) is appearing good. And the only motivation for a townie to appear good is if they feel guilty about playing bad and tunneling me. It is a possibility, but I don't think it is likely at all.
Two On one detail: they say "But if you're scum here you're pretty much an asshole (lol, don't take that to heart, but yeah, playing pretty dirty making me feel guilty xP)" Well, the little post I made above is nothing compared to that one I made yesterday:
On December 15 2015 07:09 RtaniSoul wrote: Okay, we've decided to re-evaluate everything and we've come to some shocking revelations.
After rereading over all the posts, we've decided Rayn is the most likely scum. He was inconsistent in his reads on Greymist. At first, he didn't want to lynch him, then suddenly he does. It just doesn't make any sense.
Secondly, we also think Damdred is mafia. LoneMeow is a bastard host and it was actually Rels who flipped vanilla town. Marv was also town.
DarthPunk we aren't sure on. We thought he might be town because he buddied people early but then he started making posts that made sense so now we're not sure.
GreYMisT.. Well, we thought he was town for everything but then he misconstrued something he once said in an argument about an argument in an argument so we guess he's mafia anyway.
Unfortunately this means the game is already lost because there's too many mafia
You're bad. You're two players, and you two are the worst players in this game.
On December 12 2015 13:52 RtaniSoul wrote: *sanctioned message by both heads
We are seeking a third head. Please apply.
Unless your name is DP and your nose is firmly up everyone's ass already.
Carry on ^^
That's how he posts.
Game?
I've been mislynched once on this site, in large part because I failed to convince geript that DP was a skeezy scumbucket with a geript in his pocket. Artie remembers Imperial and remembers a more aggressive DP. I glanced through the town game before that just in case replacing in might have had an effect on DP's play, but no dice. Aggressive there right out the starting gate.
These are only a few games, but given they support the perception we already have...
Where you getting this from, rayn?
-waves at DP- Because pointing out that you're buddying people is definitely not worth mentioning or anything ^^ We up for a round two?
On December 12 2015 13:52 RtaniSoul wrote: *sanctioned message by both heads
We are seeking a third head. Please apply.
Unless your name is DP and your nose is firmly up everyone's ass already.
Carry on ^^
That's how he posts.
Game?
I've been mislynched once on this site, in large part because I failed to convince geript that DP was a skeezy scumbucket with a geript in his pocket. Artie remembers Imperial and remembers a more aggressive DP. I glanced through the town game before that just in case replacing in might have had an effect on DP's play, but no dice. Aggressive there right out the starting gate.
These are only a few games, but given they support the perception we already have...
Where you getting this from, rayn?
-waves at DP- Because pointing out that you're buddying people is definitely not worth mentioning or anything ^^ We up for a round two?
This is the last game i remember playing with DarthPunk when we were both town. This is his filter in the game.
Basically i know DP is usually aggressive and i can see where you are coming from. Obviously it's nor out of the realm of possibilities he is mafia here, but i disagree in him not being "aggressive enough" makes him mafia. He treats different people differently, and i know for a fact he buddies to strong players (if you read the filter the "proof" is there).
Basically this game is filled with people who in my opinion do not respond well -- or at all -- to pressure, at least unfounded pressure (i mean situations where the game has went on for hours and there is not really anything scummy in thread -- disagree?). At the time you called him out, what in your opinion should he have done as town? Should he have questioned something? Should he have pressured something more? In my opinion, when i read the thread at that point, i didn't see anything wrong -- which is i, myself decided to comment on the only read i could be even semi-sure of.
Also bringing up Imperial is in my opinion a bit of a misjudgement (or what the fuck is the word). He replaced into a game on N3...... Of course there is going to be some reads he has rofl. If he hadn't any reads on a thread that is @ N3, he could just quit mafia. Comparing that game to this one (at 6 hours into the game with only 3 people properly even posting) is quite a stretch.
Then BEFORE RECONSIDERING IT, YOU POST THE FUCKING SAME READ TWO MORE TIMES, THEN YOU SAY "OK RAYN WAS RIGHT WE WERE WRONG". WHY DID YOU REPOST THE SAME READ WITHOUT CHECKING WHAT RAYN SAID ??????? ITS USELESS, IT CLUTTERS THE THREAD, IT DOESNT HAVE A PURPOSE
On December 13 2015 01:10 RtaniSoul wrote: P.S. Thanks rayn! I'll take a look at your link...later? Maybe when I'm waiting at the airport to pick up Lex. Also, just to be clear, my point was the buddying and not the aggression...I am well aware that DP can be aggressive as either alignment, and we are both aware that Imperial is different, which is why I looked up the other town game (Avogadro, to be precise). So let me rephrase. Buddying without pushing anything early game is what caught our attention.
On December 14 2015 00:15 RtaniSoul wrote: About the reiteration Our concern is essentially what we're outlining below. Not the fact that DP is buddying, or that he's not aggressive in isolation, but that he's a non-entity. Those are distinctly different in our minds than saying oh look! DP is buddying people! He must be scum! Or DP is not being aggressive enough! He must be scum! It is more of an overall feel for his presence (or lack thereof) in the thread.
Here you say DP's townread in not at all based on rayn:
On December 14 2015 21:00 RtaniSoul wrote: Lexy really thinks DP is town based on his later posting, and I'm gonna trust him over me. We realize that there wasn't much thread sentiment to move to DP and it could have been considered a safe buss attempt, but Occam's razor suggests marv doesn't put his vote on his scummate to get out of a nearly inevitable lynch. We also don't see marv risking lynching his scumbuddy because he's not likely to play afterward.
Then here it's partly based on rayn's read:
On December 14 2015 23:39 RtaniSoul wrote: In the end, we trusted rayn that buddying and lack of aggression alone doesn't make DP scum and couldn't be assed to do a meta dive.
Which bring me to a parenthesis: YOU ANSWER PARTIALLY TO QUESTIONS
Why is GM townie for scumreading Damdred & rayn, when he dropped these scumreads at the most opportunistic time (deadline) ?
You agreed with Damdred & rayn probing me concerning the marv vote here:
On December 14 2015 00:15 RtaniSoul wrote: Then there was the weird marv vote that also got pinged out by Rayn and Damdred. In the case of Marv being mafia, it gives Rels an excuse to be on him early whilst actually being able to switch to DP as soon as Marv posts.
GM found Damdred scummy about the way Damdred probed me concerning the marv vote:
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: The first is in regards to Damdred/Rels. I felt OK about Dam at first, but it struck me as interesting the way he interacted with Rels when Rels votes Marv. He asks why Rels is policy voting someone when he has a scum read on someone else, a sentiment I have no real issue with. What strikes me as strange is the way Dam seems to play up what Rels is doing as a weird play. The interaction covers most of a page when it seemed like it really didn't need to. I am suspicious of players who have lengthy interactions with others while accomplishing nothing. In addition, after this happens, DP essentially does the exact same thing and yet no reaction from Damdred. This strikes me as odd and I'd like to hear damdred's thoights about DP's vote placement.
Why do you townread GM for attacking Damdred because Damdred did something you agreed with ?
You're right. If we'd townread GM for attacking Damdred specifically for that reason, rather than because pushing damdred and rayn is a high-risk, low-reward play with scum marv afk...that would be weird.
"We townread DP because WIFOM WIFOM". That's bad but OK.
Why is GM townie for scumreading Damdred & rayn, when he dropped these scumreads at the most opportunistic time (deadline) ?
You agreed with Damdred & rayn probing me concerning the marv vote here:
On December 14 2015 00:15 RtaniSoul wrote: Then there was the weird marv vote that also got pinged out by Rayn and Damdred. In the case of Marv being mafia, it gives Rels an excuse to be on him early whilst actually being able to switch to DP as soon as Marv posts.
GM found Damdred scummy about the way Damdred probed me concerning the marv vote:
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: The first is in regards to Damdred/Rels. I felt OK about Dam at first, but it struck me as interesting the way he interacted with Rels when Rels votes Marv. He asks why Rels is policy voting someone when he has a scum read on someone else, a sentiment I have no real issue with. What strikes me as strange is the way Dam seems to play up what Rels is doing as a weird play. The interaction covers most of a page when it seemed like it really didn't need to. I am suspicious of players who have lengthy interactions with others while accomplishing nothing. In addition, after this happens, DP essentially does the exact same thing and yet no reaction from Damdred. This strikes me as odd and I'd like to hear damdred's thoights about DP's vote placement.
Why do you townread GM for attacking Damdred because Damdred did something you agreed with ?
You're right. If we'd townread GM for attacking Damdred specifically for that reason, rather than because pushing damdred and rayn is a high-risk, low-reward play with scum marv afk...that would be weird.
Your reason for townreading GM isn't good then. It's "scum wouldn't do that!" It's similar for your reason for townreading me. "scum!Rels wouldn't vote someone else than marv at EOD!" They're weak.
If those were our only reasons, then yes, they would be weak.
Also, rayn's reasons for townreading GM are excellent lol ><
OH I DIDNT MENTION IT IN THE LAST ANSWER BUT WE HAVE OTHER REASONS TOO HURR DURR END OF PARENTHESIS BECAUSE IT GOES BACK TO BAD READS:
On December 15 2015 01:06 RtaniSoul wrote: So our view on Rels' recent posting is that it feels like the tone is more townie in that he's working with us and asking questions which is more indicative of his Townplay, but the things he's trying to nail people on are things that have either already been explained or aren't that strong and it feels a bit like "hey, can I nail them on this?" "nope? damn, let me try this instead". That's kind of the impression he's leaving on us right now.
MY GOD HOW DARE RELS ASK US QUESTIONS TO SEE IF WE RE SCUM, THEN DONT FIND SOMETHING SCUMMY IN OUR ANSWERS AND GO DO SOMETHING ELSE E EZ SCUM
On December 14 2015 23:11 RtaniSoul wrote: To be honest, Rels, you just haven't written anything that has made us go "ah! that looks like a town Rels!" You seem to be gunning after whatever you can get. I described it as throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks.
BECAUSE THAT IS TOTALLY NOT HOW I SCUM HUNT USUALLY HOW DARE RELS THROW SEVERAL SPAGHETTIS AND SEE THE ONE THAT STICKS ON SCUM You scumread me for POE, which is OK, AND for asking "pointless questions trying to nail suspicions on someone" which is outrageous. THAT S TRUE, HOW DARE RELS BE SUSPICIOUS OF US WHEN WE HAD SUCH A PERFECT EOD ??? WE JUST WERE AFK DURING DEADLINE AND 13 HOURS AFTER IT BECAUSE I WAS SHOPPING THE WHOLE CITY. Oh Arta ??? uh .... he was sick
What is EVEN WORSE is that you also scumread me by POE because of this SUPERBE GM townread:
On December 14 2015 23:11 RtaniSoul wrote: we still feel that GM's approach to the game has been fairly townie in terms of tone and strategy. Damdred and Rayn as his main scumreads earlier, for example, is just not a winning play for scum when they're never getting lynched here.
We townread this experienced player because TONE and HE WOULDNT WEAR PANTS IN HIS HEAD IF HE WAS SCUM RIGHT ????
Now can you two can link me ONE time in any town game a moment where someone else ask you to explain your reasonning, and you MAKE UP A NEW ONE BEFORE REALIZING IT WASNT IT ?
And here is how they reacted to "me playing dirty":
On December 15 2015 23:38 RtaniSoul wrote: Quite simply, the doctor should claim so there's no chance of a scum fake claim in lylo/mylo (with a couple possible exceptions that should be obvious).
We could try hard here, but what's the point? Lynch Rels, and if he for some weird reason flips town, lynch GM. DP is right; if GM is scum it's not for that. To us the game is basically solved? So no, we really don't care anymore, especially when we were getting scumreads for being too clean. Newsflash: we're townie because we're town, not some stupid bullshit mindfuck only scum players are townie narrative. (Yes, I'm looking at you, rayn.)
There is a difference on their reactions to the same type of post, that they should react to the same; the only different thing is the context, as after the first post they had decided I was scum, and after the second one they had decided I might be town. Someone having different reactions based on what they have decided is likely to be scum.
mm since we have a nice intermission before shit going down, I will take a moment to calm down. I was super mad the whole day yesterday and it's time to relax.
On December 17 2015 17:31 Rels wrote: rayn when you're around, poke me
You don't want to talk to me?
Sure bro, what do you want to talk about ?
I really like the way you play for starters you have done an excellent job this game. I really thought you were town for the way you fanatically pushed RSO. It's kinda of shocking that you are mafia actually.
How long have you been playing mafia for?
Bastard. There is no praise in that post since I'm not scum. This is a hidden slap to my face p: 8 month BTW. I still have no idea how to detect town and scum mindset apparently. Your posts all seem town motivated to me, apart the martyring ones that rayn loved so much.
On December 17 2015 17:04 DarthPunk wrote: At this point there is no way Rayn is scum over rels and if Rayn IS scum he deserves the win.
This is a way of thinking I've been fighting BTW. Only lazy townies and scum think like that. I thought that yesterday when we lynched artasoul: "at least I'm not losing to them being scum", but I wanna win.
On December 17 2015 17:31 Rels wrote: rayn when you're around, poke me
You don't want to talk to me?
Sure bro, what do you want to talk about ?
I really like the way you play for starters you have done an excellent job this game. I really thought you were town for the way you fanatically pushed RSO. It's kinda of shocking that you are mafia actually.
How long have you been playing mafia for?
Bastard. There is no praise in that post since I'm not scum. This is a hidden slap to my face p: 8 month BTW. I still have no idea how to detect town and scum mindset apparently. Your posts all seem town motivated to me, apart the martyring ones that rayn loved so much.
The matyring was legit. And so was the praise.
This is my last game and I really would have been fine being lynched. And I really do think you have played really well. You remind me of myself for real.
Let's imagine you're scum. You are the most objectively scummy person in the game. But you win because you make a bullshit emotionnal post. Would you be happy with your win ?
On December 17 2015 18:11 DarthPunk wrote: obviously you are not going to admit to it all being real. But really, in post game lets chat about mafia.
I suppose there is a small chance rayn is scum. He played a fantastic game if that is the case. Especially, him reacting so fast to things happening in thread is extremely hard; I know, I've tried to play like that as scum and slipped. Like, I'm talking to making a big post cementing his reads, and getting rid of it the second I point something illogical in GM's story; or him reacting to Artasoul making AtE, then you making AtE, then me not making AtE 'cause I don't do them as town.
On December 17 2015 18:18 Rels wrote: What in Artasoul's post against me made you think "maybe these guys are town" ?
I guess it was the matyring that really made me shift my viewpoint and the not caring if dying attitude because at that point only scum really cared if they died or not. Like scum needed to survive and here was the hydra really seeming to not give a fuck if they died.
That shifted again when it appeared that they actually did care but were acting like they did not which is scummy objectively IMO.
On December 14 2015 15:41 DarthPunk wrote: [b]The Hydra[\b]
I legit think RSO is just bad at the game. Not sure if they are scum even though they are doing dumb stuff and clearly give zero fucks about the outcome of the lynch, that interaction within the hydra is tough to fake.
What dumb stuff are you talking about, and why are they bad at the game here ?
On December 14 2015 15:41 DarthPunk wrote: The Hydra[\b]
I legit think RSO is just bad at the game. Not sure if they are scum even though they are doing dumb stuff and clearly give zero fucks about the outcome of the lynch, that interaction within the hydra is tough to fake.
What dumb stuff are you talking about, and why are they bad at the game here ?
They were trolling, didn't really fucking try calling me scum for bad meta reasons or no reason at all.
Rephrasing the same argument after rayn said it was invalid etc.
OK. Then what did they do to look bad here:
[B]On December 15 2015 19:27 DarthPunk wrote: OK im around for like 15 minutes before I have to go to bed.
Some things.
I'm not the medic.
Rels looks really townie to me.
I think RSO looks bad.
I think the medic should probably claim if a save doesn't effect the number of mis-lynches we get because a confirmed townie is really strong in a small game.
Free to chat for a little if anyone is around while I read through some stuff.
On December 17 2015 18:47 DarthPunk wrote: They were getting trashed by you in your arguments and within your interaction and seemed to get stuck on the same loops of logic without being able to see out of it.
Can you quote one argument where I attack them pretty please ?
On December 17 2015 18:47 DarthPunk wrote: They were getting trashed by you in your arguments and within your interaction and seemed to get stuck on the same loops of logic without being able to see out of it.
Can you quote one argument where I attack them pretty please ?
can you stop twisting my words. You were arguing and you trashed them, you were winning the arguments. I didn't say that you attacked them. I can;t remember if you did or you didn;t, but you clearly are very aware as you keep on trying to trap me into saying something incorrect.
Reading your filter, you were so vague all game that I have no idea what you really meant in most of your posts when I get rid of my preconception of what you would answer.
On December 17 2015 18:47 DarthPunk wrote: They were getting trashed by you in your arguments and within your interaction and seemed to get stuck on the same loops of logic without being able to see out of it.
Can you quote one argument where I attack them pretty please ?
can you stop twisting my words. You were arguing and you trashed them, you were winning the arguments. I didn't say that you attacked them. I can;t remember if you did or you didn;t, but you clearly are very aware as you keep on trying to trap me into saying something incorrect.
Reading your filter, you were so vague all game that I have no idea what you really meant in most of your posts when I get rid of my preconception of what you would answer.
Probably because it all made sense in context and you removed the context.
No it doesn't. There is something weird in your read of artasoul. You explain your townread by them "not giving a fuck and martyring"; well when you made your vote, they had already gone into their "not giving a fuck and martyring" phase for quite some time. This post you replied to is actually a good example:
On December 16 2015 06:18 RtaniSoul wrote: If you want to win the game today instead of in 72 hours you should probably lynch Rels instead
I don't think rels is more likely to be scum than you are. I actually quite strongly believe the opposite.
But even before, your vote is there:
On December 16 2015 06:08 DarthPunk wrote: I think the hydra is a better lynch than Rels.
Rayn I would love to play one of these games where the mafia team tries a bit harder. It kinda sucks that the game is solved already.
Anyway
##vote: RtaniSoul
And here are the recent posts of artasoul at that point: + Show Spoiler +
On December 15 2015 07:09 RtaniSoul wrote: Okay, we've decided to re-evaluate everything and we've come to some shocking revelations.
After rereading over all the posts, we've decided Rayn is the most likely scum. He was inconsistent in his reads on Greymist. At first, he didn't want to lynch him, then suddenly he does. It just doesn't make any sense.
Secondly, we also think Damdred is mafia. LoneMeow is a bastard host and it was actually Rels who flipped vanilla town. Marv was also town.
DarthPunk we aren't sure on. We thought he might be town because he buddied people early but then he started making posts that made sense so now we're not sure.
GreYMisT.. Well, we thought he was town for everything but then he misconstrued something he once said in an argument about an argument in an argument so we guess he's mafia anyway.
Unfortunately this means the game is already lost because there's too many mafia
On December 15 2015 07:10 RtaniSoul wrote: ##Vote Clarity
On December 15 2015 07:26 GreYMisT wrote: I take it you dont feel good about rayns "plan" then?
His plan is obviously good for town. That's why we lol'd.
On December 15 2015 23:38 RtaniSoul wrote: Quite simply, the doctor should claim so there's no chance of a scum fake claim in lylo/mylo (with a couple possible exceptions that should be obvious).
We could try hard here, but what's the point? Lynch Rels, and if he for some weird reason flips town, lynch GM. DP is right; if GM is scum it's not for that. To us the game is basically solved? So no, we really don't care anymore, especially when we were getting scumreads for being too clean. Newsflash: we're townie because we're town, not some stupid bullshit mindfuck only scum players are townie narrative. (Yes, I'm looking at you, rayn.)
On December 15 2015 23:54 raynpelikoneet wrote: But since both of hydra/Rels are okay with the game being solved i guess i am aswell. And i will not accept any "OH NO THE GAME IS NOT ACTUALLY OVER" in case the first one we flip flips town.
We're fine with both us/Rels getting lynched if GM is in fact the doc. ##Vote Rels
On December 15 2015 23:38 RtaniSoul wrote: So no, we really don't care anymore, especially when we were getting scumreads for being too clean.
Most of your reads are based on terrible reasons.
Doesn't matter if we're right scum We're quite happy with our reads this game, thank you
On December 16 2015 00:25 RtaniSoul wrote: So we won unless DP is somehow scum nice. Gg rels
On December 16 2015 00:27 RtaniSoul wrote: Tina is very happy about being right. When she heard marv started posting and I said this might make him town she instantly said "but who else could rels be scum with?"
On December 16 2015 00:27 RtaniSoul wrote: Tina is very happy about being right. When she heard marv started posting and I said this might make him town she instantly said "but who else could rels be scum with?"
But i thought you thought DP was possibly mafia aswell?
Possible but very unlikely. we can't get him lynched over us anyway so we're okay with losing if he's scum.
On December 16 2015 00:27 RtaniSoul wrote: Tina is very happy about being right. When she heard marv started posting and I said this might make him town she instantly said "but who else could rels be scum with?"
Wait. What time are you talking about exactly ?
LOL yes that cannot be interpreted another way. It's a time AFTER marv started posting but BEFORE his alignement was known. Arsoultin didn't post a single post during that period. So they were observing but didn't post in the crisis that was EOD1.
We checked in to check once when marv was posting and then everyone was switching to rels and we were fine with that. After that we got the deadline wrong by an hour so we missed that part.
On December 16 2015 00:38 Rels wrote: Concede please (= I'm super happy you're not bad townies. I was super mad this morning about your badness but I couldn't consider you town over GM making up a reason for his own post.
You tried so hard and got so far but in the end you're still getting lynched today or tomorrow
On December 16 2015 00:38 Rels wrote: Concede please (= I'm super happy you're not bad townies. I was super mad this morning about your badness but I couldn't consider you town over GM making up a reason for his own post.
You tried so hard and got so far but in the end you're still getting lynched today or tomorrow
Man if I lose this game because you saw that marv posted but didn't bother writing stuff, I have no problem (= actually if you're town I want us to concede. Now way scum should lose here.
Please do inform us how actively lurking and having our vote on scum is scummier than just being afk
On December 16 2015 00:45 raynpelikoneet wrote: No there is a really big inconsistancy in what the hydra says in contrast to how they had acted before / at the time marv started posting (regardless of if they are telling the truth about reading marv's posts there or not).
Don't really care as long as you lynch rels tomorrow but lay it down anyway
On December 14 2015 00:15 RtaniSoul wrote: So here's where we're at right now.
We kind of think Damdred and Rayn are easy townreads right now. Damdred for being lighthearted and happy to interact. Rayn for not tunneling and actually attempting to interact with his reads.
Kind of leaning town on GreY. Just don't think he'd go after Damdy and Rayn when everyone and their mom is townreading them. Especially if Marv is mafia, he'd actually have to line up mislynches and no one wants to lynch either of them right now. We don't think the post about Rayn being vocal was alignment indicative, and a bunch of things in his big post stuck out as townish. One thing we didn't like though was the marv post and trying to get him modkilled instead, but that would be an easy scum tactic that doesn't make much sense in combination with trying to push damdred/rayn. We think he's just wrong mostly.
Marv is clearly scum at this point. ##Vote Marvellosity
Which leaves DP and Rels for the last scum.
Some of what Rels has posted looks okay and some of it doesn't. There's a few instances where it seems like he's throwing suspicions on people without trying to figure them out like he did The way he approached DP and our slot in a way that seems more focused on burying rather than solving. An exception to that would be this post:
On December 13 2015 19:50 Rels wrote:
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: while reading, 2 stood out to me as interesting:
The first is in regards to Damdred/Rels. I felt OK about Dam at first, but it struck me as interesting the way he interacted with Rels when Rels votes Marv. He asks why Rels is policy voting someone when he has a scum read on someone else, a sentiment I have no real issue with. What strikes me as strange is the way Dam seems to play up what Rels is doing as a weird play. The interaction covers most of a page when it seemed like it really didn't need to. I am suspicious of players who have lengthy interactions with others while accomplishing nothing. In addition, after this happens, DP essentially does the exact same thing and yet no reaction from Damdred. This strikes me as odd and I'd like to hear damdred's thoights about DP's vote placement.
How is it scum indicative ? I'm one of the scumread of Damdred, it's normal he interrogates me on my actions.
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: The first has occurred recently- forgive me for not quoting at the moment - when Ryan said he was sure that there could not be scum between DP/Hydra/ and Rels And was "certain" there was scum between myself and Marv. To begin, I don't like when people categorize like this. I feel like it benefits mafia to arbitrarily put people into categories to empose their viewpoint on the town. That isn't the main reason I didn't like the post, however.
On the contrary, I think it's town indicative for rayn to share his thought process. It's only scum indicative if you can point how what he posted is not logical or deserves a scum agenda.
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: The problem I have is his sudden change in conviction. Notice before this post he is just asking my opinion, wanting to know what I think of him (I will address this later below). And then, literally the next post he is certain either I or Marv are scum. Also consider that Marv is a guy who has not been here!You cannot be certain that someone is mafia if they have not posted. So basically, Rayn is saying here that he is certain I am mafia. It is this change in attitude, this certainty, and this hiding of his opinion by including Marv in this pairing that aroused my suspicion.
He explained why he thought that. Can you point what is wrong or scum with his logic ?
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote: First, the way he jumped onto Rels with Damdred seems a bit rushed and oppertunistic to me. As if he is testing the waters to see if he can get something rolling.
You seem to consider me town since apparently Damdred / rayn attacked me too easily. Why are you townreading me ?
Where it feels like he's actually trying to work with GM.
Then there was the weird marv vote that also got pinged out by Rayn and Damdred. In the case of Marv being mafia, it gives Rels an excuse to be on him early whilst actually being able to switch to DP as soon as Marv posts.
On December 12 2015 23:27 Rels wrote: ##Vote marv Do stuff or die.
Otherwise here is my mind atm:
rayn Damdred grey
Arta/rsoul marv
DP
About the reiteration Our concern is essentially what we're outlining below. Not the fact that DP is buddying, or that he's not aggressive in isolation, but that he's a non-entity. Those are distinctly different in our minds than saying oh look! DP is buddying people! He must be scum! Or DP is not being aggressive enough! He must be scum! It is more of an overall feel for his presence (or lack thereof) in the thread.
For DP, it feels like he's buddying a bunch of players and the GM scumread seems too easy and shallow. He also spent a lot more time on his townreads than his scumreads. There just doesn't seem to be much drive to find scum in him. It's also telling that we can't really say much about his filter besides a bunch of reasons for people to be town.
Town Damdred Raynpelikoneet
Leaning Town GreYMisT
Leaning Scum Rels DarthPunk
Mafia Marvellosity
Okay, first off we admit that we have been playing this game very lackadaisically. We've been taking full advantage of being a hydra where we can work things out together. We also haven't been paying this game as much attention as it probably deserves.
That said, the above post was our reads before marv. Clearly if marv is town, as Lex thought, our two scumreads become Rels and DP. There were 5 votes on Rels when Lex checked the thread, 1 on DP and 1 on marv, so he didn't feel the need to post or change his vote while I was out. He was waiting for me to get back and we both didn't realize deadline was at 4 (our time) instead of 5.
As for my comment on Rels...he'd gone after so many people in the thread that it just seemed really unlikely he was scum with DP or GM, and we had strong townreads on Damdred and rayn. So for both of us a Rels lynch was likely to hit scum, though I wasn't assuming marv was town like Lex was. Thus we didn't care perhaps as much as we should have. There are reasons for that but we're not going to go into it.
Quite simply you have to ask yourselves why marv tries to get out of his lynch and why we don't take advantage of the Rels lynch. You could make the argument that we just assumed it would go through, and we're horrible scum players who both didn't follow thread and didn't keep track of the deadline when marv, who everyone knows doesn't like to play scum, is trying to get a mislynch.
And if you think that's likely, go ahead and lynch us. Then lynch Rels.
On December 16 2015 04:17 RtaniSoul wrote: And if you think that's likely, go ahead and lynch us. Then lynch Rels.
OK let's do that.
Are you willing to give up when we flip town?
Like, the "trashing game" had finished from their part, they had been martyring and not giving a fuck for more than about 24 hours, but you still held up to your scumread on them, even though they are doing something that will later make you townread them.
On December 17 2015 19:02 DarthPunk wrote: here is a series of posts by the hydra shorty before I said they looked bad.
At this point of the game givben the context in which rayn is essentially universally town read having the medic claim and then solving by PoE is without question the correct play.
However the hydra proceeds to troll and fuck up the productivity of the thread that a fucking universal town read is trying to establish.
It was fucking anti town and dumb and I wanted to lynch the hydra so fucking badly for it. Especially cause at the time you were doing much the same as you are now, continuing to post and probe and TRY through adversity. Which I value ALOT when making assessments of players. ESPECIALLY when they are newish and I have no preconceived Ideas as to their play style or expectations of their ability level.
Furthermore. Artanis and RSO are supposed to be good townies when they try and I KNOW artanis tries less as scum so it all fit the expectations of what their scumplay would look like in this situation.
On December 17 2015 19:02 DarthPunk wrote: here is a series of posts by the hydra shorty before I said they looked bad.
At this point of the game givben the context in which rayn is essentially universally town read having the medic claim and then solving by PoE is without question the correct play.
However the hydra proceeds to troll and fuck up the productivity of the thread that a fucking universal town read is trying to establish.
It was fucking anti town and dumb and I wanted to lynch the hydra so fucking badly for it. Especially cause at the time you were doing much the same as you are now, continuing to post and probe and TRY through adversity. Which I value ALOT when making assessments of players. ESPECIALLY when they are newish and I have no preconceived Ideas as to their play style or expectations of their ability level.
Furthermore. Artanis and RSO are supposed to be good townies when they try and I KNOW artanis tries less as scum so it all fit the expectations of what their scumplay would look like in this situation.
On December 15 2015 07:11 raynpelikoneet wrote: RtaniSoul you're actually the medic?
On December 15 2015 07:12 RtaniSoul wrote:
On December 15 2015 07:11 raynpelikoneet wrote: RtaniSoul you're actually the medic?
No, we're the vigilante.
On December 15 2015 07:12 RtaniSoul wrote: We're also a death miller detective.
On December 15 2015 07:13 RtaniSoul wrote: And possibly schizophrenic.
When you voted them and said they were more likely to be scum than me, they had claimed they were not the doc
Them claiming doc or not is not the point. The point is they were trolling and shitting up productive thread pushes by confirmed town.Scum was never ever gonna claim medic so I don't know why you telling me they didn't claim doc is relevant at all.
Yep that is true. I can't find slips in your story. The only thing I have against you is your vagueness and you keeping your options open all game. And not reacting quickly to stuff like rayn. Does it mean rayn is scum ? Is there a possible world where rayn doesn't lynch me ? I find it hard to believe, unless Damdred pressured him into lynching marv, but I'm pretty sure it's the inverse tha happened.
On December 14 2015 06:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: The problem i see in marv's filter, while his posts look fine i can't believe he actually thinks -- if he read the thread as he said -- that the three people who are like mostly calling each other scum here in this game contain 2 mafia. Furthermore if he thinks this is the case, why the fuck does he not call me out for calling that impossible, or at least notice the post where i do so?
fuck it, i am back to marv is scum train. ##unvote ##vote marvellosity IF he was just too busy to read properly then it's sad, but i just don't think that's the case.
Yep. First guy to jump back to marv, using his "those 3 cant be scum together" analysis.
On December 14 2015 06:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: The problem i see in marv's filter, while his posts look fine i can't believe he actually thinks -- if he read the thread as he said -- that the three people who are like mostly calling each other scum here in this game contain 2 mafia. Furthermore if he thinks this is the case, why the fuck does he not call me out for calling that impossible, or at least notice the post where i do so?
fuck it, i am back to marv is scum train. ##unvote ##vote marvellosity IF he was just too busy to read properly then it's sad, but i just don't think that's the case.
Yep. First guy to jump back to marv, using his "those 3 cant be scum together" analysis.
Yes, rayn is town congrats.
I hope GM / rayn finds you scummy then. I will not roll over and die and make them lose if they scumread me; but fighting against every player in the thread is stressful.
On December 17 2015 23:57 Rels wrote: So you cannot swear you are not scum ?
I could, but i won't, because it's cheap.
If you're town, DP already made a big "emotion to the max" post, so no it's not cheap compared to the standard of this game. And I think you couldn't as scum.
On December 16 2015 22:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: I really don't know what else to say at the moment.
If DP is not going to do anything further i am never switching my vote. I understand this is pretty shitty if he is town as we live on the other sides of the world and we have basically not been in the thread at all at the same time due to time zones / constraints.
But still i believe this is the most likely correct answer at this point.
it's actually fine for me to die. Just make sure you get the last lynch right.
game stuff ends here
I have this feeling in the pit of my stomach like I really want to fight my lynch the way I would have in the past but real life takes too much time to play mafia properly and there is no way I can work a 12 hour day on less than 6 hours sleep.
During this game I was able to spend at the most 3 hours per day to read and post in the thread and the way I have always played has been in a very interactive way that requires lots of time and attention and spam
Basically the reason I am saying all this because this will be my last game of mafia for the foreseeable future. (No Rayn you will not again convince me to play after I refuse citing time constraints so you can lynch me due to not doing enough.)
It is not fair on my past self and all the effort I used to put into this game I loved.
I can't play to my own standards and it is incredibly frustrating to be in that situation where instead of a mafia god I am a fucking grandfather who should have already retired.
I am grateful though that I got to play in this last game with two of my favourite players ever (marv/Rayn) And someone new who vividly reminds me of how I once played the game.
So thanks for that.
Also, as it's my own fucking eulogy:
Rso you are legit terrible at the game.
Artanis fuck you for not trying in vengeful you prick.
Rayn thanks for the memories but I still lynched the shit out of you in hydra.
Marv you are a god except your ego is a force of fucking nature.
Fuck you holy flare.
I think that's everything .
I'm turning off my phone so I can salvage some sleep.
It was a wild ride while it lasted. Peace!
Do you think this is cheap if DP is scum ? Or better / worse than cheap ?
On December 16 2015 22:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: I really don't know what else to say at the moment.
If DP is not going to do anything further i am never switching my vote. I understand this is pretty shitty if he is town as we live on the other sides of the world and we have basically not been in the thread at all at the same time due to time zones / constraints.
But still i believe this is the most likely correct answer at this point.
it's actually fine for me to die. Just make sure you get the last lynch right.
game stuff ends here
I have this feeling in the pit of my stomach like I really want to fight my lynch the way I would have in the past but real life takes too much time to play mafia properly and there is no way I can work a 12 hour day on less than 6 hours sleep.
During this game I was able to spend at the most 3 hours per day to read and post in the thread and the way I have always played has been in a very interactive way that requires lots of time and attention and spam
Basically the reason I am saying all this because this will be my last game of mafia for the foreseeable future. (No Rayn you will not again convince me to play after I refuse citing time constraints so you can lynch me due to not doing enough.)
It is not fair on my past self and all the effort I used to put into this game I loved.
I can't play to my own standards and it is incredibly frustrating to be in that situation where instead of a mafia god I am a fucking grandfather who should have already retired.
I am grateful though that I got to play in this last game with two of my favourite players ever (marv/Rayn) And someone new who vividly reminds me of how I once played the game.
So thanks for that.
Also, as it's my own fucking eulogy:
Rso you are legit terrible at the game.
Artanis fuck you for not trying in vengeful you prick.
Rayn thanks for the memories but I still lynched the shit out of you in hydra.
Marv you are a god except your ego is a force of fucking nature.
Fuck you holy flare.
I think that's everything .
I'm turning off my phone so I can salvage some sleep.
It was a wild ride while it lasted. Peace!
Do you think this is cheap if DP is scum ? Or better / worse than cheap ?
I don't care. It is not the right question. The right question is "is DP scum or town for that" and the right answer is; town
There is not my question though. If you're town, that post was made by scum. On a scale from 0 to 10, corresponding to "horrible person" to "angel", how would you rate DP as a person ?
On December 18 2015 00:19 GreYMisT wrote: So first off everyone needs to have a lynch target and analysis post before day end. a new one. if someone does not everyone is to assuume that person is scum. I will have one as well, so dont worry.
I also have something and I want both DP and Rels to humor me, and i'd like rayn to go along with it. I'd like both of you to do your best to make a case on rayn. disregard how unlikly it is, or whether or not its something youu actually believe.
ill be here occassionally to respond, but ill mainly be following along and gathering my thoughts for the end of night post.
LOL you're the doc not the mayor last time I checked. But it's going to be easy.
I think rayn is scum because he couldn't swear he's town; and I think I know why. If he swears he's town, that means DP is confirmed being a super dick posting a super cheap post; and rayn cannot do this.
On December 18 2015 00:19 GreYMisT wrote: So first off everyone needs to have a lynch target and analysis post before day end. a new one. if someone does not everyone is to assuume that person is scum. I will have one as well, so dont worry.
I also have something and I want both DP and Rels to humor me, and i'd like rayn to go along with it. I'd like both of you to do your best to make a case on rayn. disregard how unlikly it is, or whether or not its something youu actually believe.
ill be here occassionally to respond, but ill mainly be following along and gathering my thoughts for the end of night post.
LOL you're the doc not the mayor last time I checked. But it's going to be easy.
I think rayn is scum because he couldn't swear he's town; and I think I know why. If he swears he's town, that means DP is confirmed being a super dick posting a super cheap post; and rayn cannot do this.
What is cheap about that post exactly? Everything in it was true and I fucking self voted, I wasn't angry or rage quitting. I just hoped Rayn would win the game after I died.
On December 18 2015 06:36 raynpelikoneet wrote: I completely understand this from the town point of view. This makes no sense from mafia point of view. It makes completely sense that DP is angry at himself here as he has had time constraints in comparison to each other. As his play revolves around interacting with people, i can understand it's really fucking annoying when someone calls you out for basically "not interacting" when it has been impossible for you. Now he COULd have played differently but...
...if DarthPunk is mafia here, my case is the exact reason he is mafia, and he knows it. That is the reason i don't see him making this post, especially the bolded part, as mafia. It doesn't make any sense to get genuinely mad when someone calls you scum for the reasons you are scum for. It just doesn't make any fucking sense to me.
- Furthermore his read evolvement on Greymist throughout the game is really townie - His actions during D1, when marv was here are pure townie (i have talked about this before)
There is basically no way he is scum here.
My reaction when I read that post this morning: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA YOU DESERVE TO LOSE
1 - I am obvious town to anyone that has played with me as both alignements. But I can fake my town play pretty well so it's normal people doubt.
2 - marv not voting me to survive means we are fucked if we are scum together. If I get lynched D1, marv is super suspicious. Coupled with his difficulty to play scum, there is no way we win. If DP gets lynched D1, marv and I are the obvious team and we have a hard time winning the game. If marv gets lynched D1, I am super suspicious and I have a hard time winning the game.
Now:
On December 14 2015 05:38 Damdred wrote: Marv is town, the reason I say this is he hates giving town information if he is scum and going to roll over.
Two hours and thirty to go and he comes in and tries to fins scum? Maybe he gets lynched maybe not but I he basically Poe town and I don't think scum marv does that on his death bed+ tone.
##unvote
marv hates giving information when he's playing scum. He's almost sure to be the lynch D1, and virtually garanteed to be lynched D2 if town if lynched D1. So it's impossible marv goes for a play that results of his team being the "obvious" suspects whatever the lynch person is (see above).
On December 18 2015 06:36 raynpelikoneet wrote: I completely understand this from the town point of view. This makes no sense from mafia point of view. It makes completely sense that DP is angry at himself here as he has had time constraints in comparison to each other. As his play revolves around interacting with people, i can understand it's really fucking annoying when someone calls you out for basically "not interacting" when it has been impossible for you. Now he COULd have played differently but...
...if DarthPunk is mafia here, my case is the exact reason he is mafia, and he knows it. That is the reason i don't see him making this post, especially the bolded part, as mafia. It doesn't make any sense to get genuinely mad when someone calls you scum for the reasons you are scum for. It just doesn't make any fucking sense to me.
- Furthermore his read evolvement on Greymist throughout the game is really townie - His actions during D1, when marv was here are pure townie (i have talked about this before)
There is basically no way he is scum here.
My reaction when I read that post this morning: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA YOU DESERVE TO LOSE
No Rels, if we lynch you it's you who deserves to lose if you are town. Not me.
No. People are never confirmed town for emotional BS in my mind. If you really have discarded DP as a suspect because of this, you deserve to lose. Unless you're scum ofc, then you kinda deserve to win, even if you were helped by arsoul not doing shit.
On December 18 2015 22:33 Rels wrote: marv hates giving information when he's playing scum. He's almost sure to be the lynch D1, and virtually garanteed to be lynched D2 if town if lynched D1. So it's impossible marv goes for a play that results of his team being the "obvious" suspects whatever the lynch person is (see above).
where do you base this on?
Mm maybe I base this on the quote that is ON THE FUCKING POST JUST ABOVE THIS PARAGRAPH
On December 18 2015 22:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: What? Why is shooting GM the best play for you?
Cause he's doc and potentially (even if unlikely) didn't save you or Damdred N1. GM is safe kill. And, again, you would not be voting me if I was scum.
On December 18 2015 06:36 raynpelikoneet wrote: I completely understand this from the town point of view. This makes no sense from mafia point of view. It makes completely sense that DP is angry at himself here as he has had time constraints in comparison to each other. As his play revolves around interacting with people, i can understand it's really fucking annoying when someone calls you out for basically "not interacting" when it has been impossible for you. Now he COULd have played differently but...
...if DarthPunk is mafia here, my case is the exact reason he is mafia, and he knows it. That is the reason i don't see him making this post, especially the bolded part, as mafia. It doesn't make any sense to get genuinely mad when someone calls you scum for the reasons you are scum for. It just doesn't make any fucking sense to me.
- Furthermore his read evolvement on Greymist throughout the game is really townie - His actions during D1, when marv was here are pure townie (i have talked about this before)
There is basically no way he is scum here.
My reaction when I read that post this morning: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA YOU DESERVE TO LOSE
No Rels, if we lynch you it's you who deserves to lose if you are town. Not me.
No. People are never confirmed town for emotional BS in my mind. If you really have discarded DP as a suspect because of this, you deserve to lose. Unless you're scum ofc, then you kinda deserve to win, even if you were helped by arsoul not doing shit.
Except i do not think anyone is confirmed town for emotional BS. I legitmately think your actions in this game are more scummy than DP's. So how about you start telling why you are not scum and why me/DP is scum instead of.. .emotional BS?
I do not need to do anything else. I just proved beyond reasonnable doubt I was not scum; marv would never go for the no-vote on me if he was partner with me. That do not make DP or you scum, but that makes me almost confirmed town.
On December 18 2015 22:33 Rels wrote: marv hates giving information when he's playing scum. He's almost sure to be the lynch D1, and virtually garanteed to be lynched D2 if town if lynched D1. So it's impossible marv goes for a play that results of his team being the "obvious" suspects whatever the lynch person is (see above).
where do you base this on?
Mm maybe I base this on the quote that is ON THE FUCKING POST JUST ABOVE THIS PARAGRAPH
So because Damdred said so it must be true? Damdred also said you are mafia at some point. Is that true too?
People having opinions of people's alignement != people stating facts about people meta.
On December 18 2015 22:33 Rels wrote: I am actually confirmed town.
1 - I am obvious town to anyone that has played with me as both alignements. But I can fake my town play pretty well so it's normal people doubt.
2 - marv not voting me to survive means we are fucked if we are scum together. If I get lynched D1, marv is super suspicious. Coupled with his difficulty to play scum, there is no way we win. If DP gets lynched D1, marv and I are the obvious team and we have a hard time winning the game. If marv gets lynched D1, I am super suspicious and I have a hard time winning the game.
Now:
On December 14 2015 05:38 Damdred wrote: Marv is town, the reason I say this is he hates giving town information if he is scum and going to roll over.
Two hours and thirty to go and he comes in and tries to fins scum? Maybe he gets lynched maybe not but I he basically Poe town and I don't think scum marv does that on his death bed+ tone.
##unvote
marv hates giving information when he's playing scum. He's almost sure to be the lynch D1, and virtually garanteed to be lynched D2 if town if lynched D1. So it's impossible marv goes for a play that results of his team being the "obvious" suspects whatever the lynch person is (see above).
1) Yes, so am i and so is DP. So hety.. we have a problem here right? 2) Let's say for a second i believe you here. Which brings me back to my question; Why does marv not sheep me into lynching you? Because that would make him not suspicious....
3) a bit more on this. marv was NOT "almost sure to be the lynch D1" when he started posting because me and DP unvoted him, Greymist later. I don't know what game you are reading if this is your interpretation of the situation.
I don't know the #1 about DP. Apparently he's way more aggressive as town though (see arsoul first post .... LOL), but if you don't see a difference, whatever.
#2 EXACTLY. If marv was scum with me, he would have sheeped you into me. The way he played, he gave away his partner, and the only way I or he can defend against it afterwards is by playing the WIFOM card. Like I'm doing right now actually.
#3 When he started posting, he was the lynch. Then I was. If he succesfully deflected the lynch off me by lynching DP, we look bad. If I am the lynch, he looks bad.
On December 18 2015 22:51 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels you are arguing in circles again...
Can you go into N2 end and answer my post on you and DP with the best you can? This isn't helping rn.
If you want. In return, please think about the situation. Yes it's WIFOM; and yes it doens't make sense (especially for "doesn't give info to town" marv) to put the two scums into the "obvious suspects" position.
marv is the lynch. He starts posting. Rels is the lynch. marv deflects the lynch to DP. I deflect the lynch to arsoul. If DP is lynched => marv and I are the obvious team. If I am lynched => marv looks bad. If marv is lynched => I look bad.
This move doesn't have a scum motivation. WIFOM is a tool for scum to escape situations they look scummy when looked in the "obvious" way; but scums wouldn't make themselves look bad just for WIFOM.
On December 18 2015 22:33 Rels wrote: I am actually confirmed town.
1 - I am obvious town to anyone that has played with me as both alignements. But I can fake my town play pretty well so it's normal people doubt.
2 - marv not voting me to survive means we are fucked if we are scum together. If I get lynched D1, marv is super suspicious. Coupled with his difficulty to play scum, there is no way we win. If DP gets lynched D1, marv and I are the obvious team and we have a hard time winning the game. If marv gets lynched D1, I am super suspicious and I have a hard time winning the game.
Now:
On December 14 2015 05:38 Damdred wrote: Marv is town, the reason I say this is he hates giving town information if he is scum and going to roll over.
Two hours and thirty to go and he comes in and tries to fins scum? Maybe he gets lynched maybe not but I he basically Poe town and I don't think scum marv does that on his death bed+ tone.
##unvote
marv hates giving information when he's playing scum. He's almost sure to be the lynch D1, and virtually garanteed to be lynched D2 if town if lynched D1. So it's impossible marv goes for a play that results of his team being the "obvious" suspects whatever the lynch person is (see above).
1) Yes, so am i and so is DP. So hety.. we have a problem here right? 2) Let's say for a second i believe you here. Which brings me back to my question; Why does marv not sheep me into lynching you? Because that would make him not suspicious....
3) a bit more on this. marv was NOT "almost sure to be the lynch D1" when he started posting because me and DP unvoted him, Greymist later. I don't know what game you are reading if this is your interpretation of the situation.
I don't know the #1 about DP. Apparently he's way more aggressive as town though (see arsoul first post .... LOL), but if you don't see a difference, whatever.
#2 EXACTLY. If marv was scum with me, he would have sheeped you into me. The way he played, he gave away his partner, and the only way I or he can defend against it afterwards is by playing the WIFOM card. Like I'm doing right now actually.
#3 When he started posting, he was the lynch. Then I was. If he succesfully deflected the lynch off me by lynching DP, we look bad. If I am the lynch, he looks bad.
So okay;Your narrative is that in this game mafia was so bad that regardless of what they do on D1 they end up almost 100% losing the game unless they bus, despite town being so bad that almost everyone thought you were mafia on D1?
Do you seriously believe that is true, because that makes no fucking sense in the first place.
What. I don't understand. See the post I just posted where I cleanly resume my thinking and reply to that one.
On December 18 2015 22:33 Rels wrote: I am actually confirmed town.
1 - I am obvious town to anyone that has played with me as both alignements. But I can fake my town play pretty well so it's normal people doubt.
2 - marv not voting me to survive means we are fucked if we are scum together. If I get lynched D1, marv is super suspicious. Coupled with his difficulty to play scum, there is no way we win. If DP gets lynched D1, marv and I are the obvious team and we have a hard time winning the game. If marv gets lynched D1, I am super suspicious and I have a hard time winning the game.
Now:
On December 14 2015 05:38 Damdred wrote: Marv is town, the reason I say this is he hates giving town information if he is scum and going to roll over.
Two hours and thirty to go and he comes in and tries to fins scum? Maybe he gets lynched maybe not but I he basically Poe town and I don't think scum marv does that on his death bed+ tone.
##unvote
marv hates giving information when he's playing scum. He's almost sure to be the lynch D1, and virtually garanteed to be lynched D2 if town if lynched D1. So it's impossible marv goes for a play that results of his team being the "obvious" suspects whatever the lynch person is (see above).
1) Yes, so am i and so is DP. So hety.. we have a problem here right? 2) Let's say for a second i believe you here. Which brings me back to my question; Why does marv not sheep me into lynching you? Because that would make him not suspicious....
3) a bit more on this. marv was NOT "almost sure to be the lynch D1" when he started posting because me and DP unvoted him, Greymist later. I don't know what game you are reading if this is your interpretation of the situation.
I don't know the #1 about DP. Apparently he's way more aggressive as town though (see arsoul first post .... LOL), but if you don't see a difference, whatever.
#2 EXACTLY. If marv was scum with me, he would have sheeped you into me. The way he played, he gave away his partner, and the only way I or he can defend against it afterwards is by playing the WIFOM card. Like I'm doing right now actually.
#3 When he started posting, he was the lynch. Then I was. If he succesfully deflected the lynch off me by lynching DP, we look bad. If I am the lynch, he looks bad.
So okay;Your narrative is that in this game mafia was so bad that regardless of what they do on D1 they end up almost 100% losing the game unless they bus, despite town being so bad that almost everyone thought you were mafia on D1?
Do you seriously believe that is true, because that makes no fucking sense in the first place.
What. I don't understand. See the post I just posted where I cleanly resume my thinking and reply to that one.
This move only makes me confirmed town; everybody else is a potential scum partner. marv could have bused DP like he probably did, or vote arsoul, or GM. But there is no way he doesn't bus me when I am the back up lynch if he's my partner.
On December 18 2015 22:51 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels you are arguing in circles again...
Can you go into N2 end and answer my post on you and DP with the best you can? This isn't helping rn.
If you want. In return, please think about the situation. Yes it's WIFOM; and yes it doens't make sense (especially for "doesn't give info to town" marv) to put the two scums into the "obvious suspects" position.
marv is the lynch. He starts posting. Rels is the lynch. marv deflects the lynch to DP. I deflect the lynch to arsoul. If DP is lynched => marv and I are the obvious team. If I am lynched => marv looks bad. If marv is lynched => I look bad.
This move doesn't have a scum motivation. WIFOM is a tool for scum to escape situations they look scummy when looked in the "obvious" way; but scums wouldn't make themselves look bad just for WIFOM.
Fisrt of all you didn't deflect the lynch to anyone. You acted like a headless chicken at the EOD1.
Second of all, this: "If I am lynched => marv looks bad." Explain to me why this is the case?
Because he didn't vote me when everybody scumreads me; because he had a super lackluster D1; because he's not a motivated scum player. If I'm his partner and I get lynched D1 AND marv tried to deflect the lynch, there is no way marv survives two lynches.
On December 18 2015 22:51 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels you are arguing in circles again...
Can you go into N2 end and answer my post on you and DP with the best you can? This isn't helping rn.
If you want. In return, please think about the situation. Yes it's WIFOM; and yes it doens't make sense (especially for "doesn't give info to town" marv) to put the two scums into the "obvious suspects" position.
marv is the lynch. He starts posting. Rels is the lynch. marv deflects the lynch to DP. I deflect the lynch to arsoul. If DP is lynched => marv and I are the obvious team. If I am lynched => marv looks bad. If marv is lynched => I look bad.
This move doesn't have a scum motivation. WIFOM is a tool for scum to escape situations they look scummy when looked in the "obvious" way; but scums wouldn't make themselves look bad just for WIFOM.
Fisrt of all you didn't deflect the lynch to anyone. You acted like a headless chicken at the EOD1.
Second of all, this: "If I am lynched => marv looks bad." Explain to me why this is the case?
Because he didn't vote me when everybody scumreads me; because he had a super lackluster D1; because he's not a motivated scum player. If I'm his partner and I get lynched D1 AND marv tried to deflect the lynch, there is no way marv survives two lynches.
Exactly. And if he doesn't vote for you he doesn't survive even one lynch (as you yourself said)...
Yep. With the way we both played EOD, whatever the lynch is, we both look bad and probably one of us is dead. I mean, you for example hate busing. But the one game where you ragequit at the end, you felt so fucked that you had no other way than to bus D1. There is no way marv and I don't bus each other when we are #1 and #2 lynches.
On December 18 2015 23:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: Because if you get lynched on D1 and flip town it literally points out towards me being mafia nad rsoul being mafia more than DP being mafia.
You're right. The obvious way to play for marv was to push me. I'm arguing something else; I'm arguing that there is no way we play EOD Like that as partners. Push your arguments to the end to see if that makes me confirmed scum ?
marv is the lynch. marv starts posting. I am the lynch. marv deflects and pushes on DP. DP sheeps rayn on me.
If marv is lynched: DP look very good and I look super suspicious. If DP is lynched: the game is almost lost for scum since marv is not a good enough scum player to survive two more lynches. (or, he's a too good town player to fake it as scum) If Rels is lynched: LYLO. DP looks null. marv looks OK.
So it's a gambit. If DP is lynched for whatever reason marv lose the game right there. But the other cases are OK.
On December 18 2015 23:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: Because if you get lynched on D1 and flip town it literally points out towards me being mafia nad rsoul being mafia more than DP being mafia.
You're right. The obvious way to play for marv was to push me. I'm arguing something else; I'm arguing that there is no way we play EOD Like that as partners. Push your arguments to the end to see if that makes me confirmed scum ?
See here is my problem. In the underlined part you say what i am presenting is the most likely scenario. But in the bolded part you say there is 0% chance i am right here.
So, you can't point out ANY OTHER SCENARIO that makes sense (more than what i presented), hell you even agree with me, but still you just say "this is not what happened".....
Why the fuck are you considering hypothetical scenarios ... I just gave you the six scenarios that are possible given how DP marv and I played EOD1. If you disagree with one scenario say it.
On December 18 2015 22:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: What? Why is shooting GM the best play for you?
Cause he's doc and potentially (even if unlikely) didn't save you or Damdred N1. GM is safe kill. And, again, you would not be voting me if I was scum.
Okay thanks, now i need DP's answer on this.
DP -- a follow up question to this too; What is the best play for Rels in case he is scum?
I think The correct play in a vacuum is to always kill The non CC'd doc.
However;
I think the best play for Rels was to shoot you. But, again, it's close. Like there are valid arguments for both sides, but you are far less likely to be outargued or swayed in your convictions than GreyMist I think.
Actually the best play for both me and Rels in case we are mafia is to no-kill. But Rels or you not realizing this doesn't mean anything about anyone's alignment so we should just drop this discussion.
On December 18 2015 23:15 Rels wrote: marv and DP are scum.
marv is the lynch. marv starts posting. I am the lynch. marv deflects and pushes on DP. DP sheeps rayn on me.
If marv is lynched: DP look very good and I look super suspicious. If DP is lynched: the game is almost lost for scum since marv is not a good enough scum player to survive two more lynches. (or, he's a too good town player to fake it as scum) If Rels is lynched: LYLO. DP looks null. marv looks OK.
So it's a gambit. If DP is lynched for whatever reason marv lose the game right there. But the other cases are OK.
Why would we not just both lynch you as scum and go straight to lylo?
I'm not considering the motherfucking hypothetical scenarios. I'm considering what could possibly happen based on the actions of the players, and what outcome it would have.
On December 18 2015 23:15 Rels wrote: marv and DP are scum.
marv is the lynch. marv starts posting. I am the lynch. marv deflects and pushes on DP. DP sheeps rayn on me.
If marv is lynched: DP look very good and I look super suspicious. If DP is lynched: the game is almost lost for scum since marv is not a good enough scum player to survive two more lynches. (or, he's a too good town player to fake it as scum) If Rels is lynched: LYLO. DP looks null. marv looks OK.
So it's a gambit. If DP is lynched for whatever reason marv lose the game right there. But the other cases are OK.
Your scenario here hinges around "if DP is lynched for whatever reason" which already assumes that DP was suspicious for people on D1, otherwise you should nowhere assume "if DP is lynched" is even likely.
Again we come to this, if you assume "if DP is lynched" is true, you assume DP was at least suspicious for people on D1 ---> in that case, if we mirror this to what I HAVE SAID, it makes sense for marv to NOT bus you, and try to lynch DP, no?
On December 18 2015 23:15 Rels wrote: marv and DP are scum.
marv is the lynch. marv starts posting. I am the lynch. marv deflects and pushes on DP. DP sheeps rayn on me.
If marv is lynched: DP look very good and I look super suspicious. If DP is lynched: the game is almost lost for scum since marv is not a good enough scum player to survive two more lynches. (or, he's a too good town player to fake it as scum) If Rels is lynched: LYLO. DP looks null. marv looks OK.
So it's a gambit. If DP is lynched for whatever reason marv lose the game right there. But the other cases are OK.
Your scenario here hinges around "if DP is lynched for whatever reason" which already assumes that DP was suspicious for people on D1, otherwise you should nowhere assume "if DP is lynched" is even likely.
Again we come to this, if you assume "if DP is lynched" is true, you assume DP was at least suspicious for people on D1 ---> in that case, if we mirror this to what I HAVE SAID, it makes sense for marv to NOT bus you, and try to lynch DP, no?
AND YOU ARE SUPER STUPID "DP LYNCHED" IS THE ONLY SCENARIO THAT IS BAD FOR A MARV + DP TEAM IF YOU SAY "BUT THE DP IS LYNCHED SCENARIO" IS EXTREMELY UNLIKELY, THEN THE OTHER TWO SCENARIOS ARE BOTH LIKELY, AND THESE TWO SCENARIOS ARE GOOD FOR A MARV + DP TEAM
OK I will resume one last time because you are all annoying me.
What happened at EOD1 marv is the lynch. marv starts posting. Rels is the lynch. marv deflects off Rels and pushes on DP. DP sheeps rayn on Rels. Rels deflects off marv and pushes on Arsoul. Possible lynches: marv, DP, Rels.
1: marv + Rels is the team. How do the rest of the game looks like ? If Rels is lynched => marv look bad. Game is lost because marv is not a good scum player + is being suspected. BAD If DP is lynched => LYLO; marv and I, who were the two potential lynches, look super bad. A LITTLE BAD and UNLIKELY ANYWAY If marv is lynched => It looks like both scum didn't want to vote for each other. I look bad. BAD
2: marv + DP is the team. How do the rest of the game looks like ? If marv is lynched: DP look very good and I look super suspicious. GOOD If DP is lynched: the game is almost lost for scum since marv is not a good enough scum player to survive two more lynches. (or, he's a too good town player to fake it as scum). BAD but UNLIKELY If Rels is lynched: LYLO. DP looks null. marv looks OK. SUPER GOOD
Shut up fucking scum. It does not prove you're scum; anyone could be scum with marv but me with this analysis. It proves that I am town. I am town because marv was getting lynched and he hates giving information; but somehow we chose a way to play that ONLY LEAD TO BAD SCENARIOS.
On December 18 2015 23:39 Rels wrote: Shut up fucking scum. It does not prove you're scum; anyone could be scum with marv but me with this analysis. It proves that I am town. I am town because marv was getting lynched and he hates giving information; but somehow we chose a way to play that ONLY LEAD TO BAD SCENARIOS.
YOU COULD ONLY CHOOSE BAD SCENARIOS BECAUSE YOU HAD COLLECTIVELY PUT YOURSELF INTO A BAD SCENARIO BY PLAYING LIKE SHIT ON DAY ONE.
MY POINT IS SCUMS DO NOT PLAY TO PUT THEMSELVES IN BAD SCENARIOS IN THE FIRST PLACE IT'S IMPOSSIBLE ONE OF YOU DOES NOT BUS THE OTHER IN THE SITUATION WE WERE IN AT EOD
On December 18 2015 23:39 Rels wrote: Shut up fucking scum. It does not prove you're scum; anyone could be scum with marv but me with this analysis. It proves that I am town. I am town because marv was getting lynched and he hates giving information; but somehow we chose a way to play that ONLY LEAD TO BAD SCENARIOS.
YOU COULD ONLY CHOOSE BAD SCENARIOS BECAUSE YOU HAD COLLECTIVELY PUT YOURSELF INTO A BAD SCENARIO BY PLAYING LIKE SHIT ON DAY ONE.
MY POINT IS SCUMS DO NOT PLAY TO PUT THEMSELVES IN BAD SCENARIOS IN THE FIRST PLACE IT'S IMPOSSIBLE ONE OF YOU DOES NOT BUS THE OTHER IN THE SITUATION WE WERE IN AT EOD
If scum NEVER put themselves into bad scenarios then scum would win all the fucking time.
Yep and we they do, they bus Case in point: almost every game that was ever played
On December 18 2015 23:39 Rels wrote: Shut up fucking scum. It does not prove you're scum; anyone could be scum with marv but me with this analysis. It proves that I am town. I am town because marv was getting lynched and he hates giving information; but somehow we chose a way to play that ONLY LEAD TO BAD SCENARIOS.
YOU COULD ONLY CHOOSE BAD SCENARIOS BECAUSE YOU HAD COLLECTIVELY PUT YOURSELF INTO A BAD SCENARIO BY PLAYING LIKE SHIT ON DAY ONE.
MY POINT IS SCUMS DO NOT PLAY TO PUT THEMSELVES IN BAD SCENARIOS IN THE FIRST PLACE IT'S IMPOSSIBLE ONE OF YOU DOES NOT BUS THE OTHER IN THE SITUATION WE WERE IN AT EOD
If scum NEVER put themselves into bad scenarios then scum would win all the fucking time.
Yep and we they do, they bus Case in point: almost every game that was ever played
Not true at all.
Yep. It's the natural reaction and I have a lot of examples coming to mind rightnow
Eh that's true. But you have done that in every game we've been in - gone at it with Rayn I mean. Even SOTW, where he ended up trusting you with the game. Rayn is easy to manipulate and you figured him out (hell, we laughed about it at length in the Mafia QT).
you can call this idiot after the game.
Dark Tournament: HTS is getting destroyed by NM => FF buses. FF is suprisingly getting lynched => disfo bus Haunted Mansion: FF and scott are getting lynched => Chrom buses. Mini Mafia: Hopeless and Onegu => BH buses. Drams: Shining => Rels and SL bus Generic Mini Mafia: marv => bus SOTW: Damdred AFK => bus Personality: rayn got caught => bus
On December 18 2015 23:19 Rels wrote: How do you know scum can no-kill ?
I am not going to answer your dumb shit...
You're lucky I have to assume you're town 'cause I would have tunneled the shit out of you if it was not LYLO.
That's it. I am never going to switch my vote. This is just so fucking bullshit you cannot be town.
Alright. Goodbye. You deserve what happens to you regardless of alignement. If you are town, I just prove I couldn't be partner with marv. You can WIFOM this all you want, it's proven and you are bad for not realizing it. If you're scum, you kinda deserve the win too, 'cause nobody can't do anything against you.
On December 19 2015 00:01 raynpelikoneet wrote: I literally tried, in my every post on N2 and D3, to get a townie response from you Rels. You have given zero. You have somethings to learn still, regardless of your alignment.
If i ask loaded questions for two fucking days straight and you manage to post zero posts where you towntell even a single bit, then you are probably mafia. And that is a fact.
You can mock me all you want but the truth is i fucking lynched mafia and you didn't. And you haven't played thatwell in case you are town. It is a fact.
No. The fact that you are not townreading me is a fucking towntell enough already. YOU are bad if you lynch me and if you're town. This is a fact because: - Your cases are full of nothing. I think the way I play is obviously town, but I conceive someone else can think I can fake it; still, it's not proving anything - marv not busing me / me not busing marv is EXTREMELY UNLIKELY You've changed. DP is not super scummy, but he's not townie. You've let ONE post with an excuse change your mind; when the logical answer is "Rels is town". You're not playing logically anymore.
On December 19 2015 00:04 Rels wrote: I think the way I play is obviously town
Obviously. This is backed up by the fact that hydra thought you are scum, greymist thought you are scum, i think you are scum and DP thinks you are scum.
You're obviously playing so fucking townie. Please keep arguing how townie you have play because it makes total fucking sense.
Yep. It's due to me being AFK for the first phase + my scum play being super good. Not everybody though. Damdred was townreading me before he died.
Whatever though. You've played with me. I try to deflect the lynches off my partners; but I bus them if it's not possible to do otherwise, and I DONT TOWNREAD THEM IF THEY ARE SUSPICIOUS.
SOTW: Damdred AFK: D1 I deflect the lynch from him by saying "he will be checked". I get him lynched D2 to keep fidei alive + town cred. Fidei: I scumread him starting D2.
Drams: I bus the shit out of Shining when Trfel starts to suspect him. SL is a potential scum.
Crossfire: my partner is in my lynch list the entire game.
Resistance: I scumread Artanis starting phase 2; I prove with meta that Xata is town, but I have a hard time calling him town.
On December 18 2015 23:33 Rels wrote: 1: marv + Rels is the team. How do the rest of the game looks like ? If Rels is lynched => marv look bad. Game is lost because marv is not a good scum player + is being suspected. BAD If DP is lynched => LYLO; marv and I, who were the two potential lynches, look super bad. A LITTLE BAD and UNLIKELY ANYWAY If marv is lynched => It looks like both scum didn't want to vote for each other. I look bad. BAD
This is literally not possible for marv + I to do. marv + I are not beginner scum. There is a slight chance we did it for the WIFOM; but it's proven beyond reasonnable doubts we are not partners.
On December 19 2015 00:15 Rels wrote: Whatever though. You've played with me. I try to deflect the lynches off my partners; but I bus them if it's not possible to do otherwise, and I DONT TOWNREAD THEM IF THEY ARE SUSPICIOUS.
SOTW: Damdred AFK: D1 I deflect the lynch from him by saying "he will be checked". I get him lynched D2 to keep fidei alive + town cred. Fidei: I scumread him starting D2.
Drams: I bus the shit out of Shining when Trfel starts to suspect him. SL is a potential scum.
Crossfire: my partner is in my lynch list the entire game.
Resistance: I scumread Artanis starting phase 2; I prove with meta that Xata is town, but I have a hard time calling him town.
Except you never townread marv and your read on him throughout the game was super fucking fishy. What you said after D1 makes no sense if i compare it to your actions on D1. I don't care what you did in other games. Especially since Resistance and the xfire game works very differently from normal mafia --> bussing your partner / at least one partner is the correct play for mafia in both of those games.
Drams: see where it got you? we figured the shit out of the game
SOTW: you only survived because town was fucking retarded.
wow.. that were those games.
I would have won Drams if not for the retarded role claim. It was an absolutely correct play. And I'm only proving that marv and I would have bused each other as scum.
On December 18 2015 23:33 Rels wrote: 1: marv + Rels is the team. How do the rest of the game looks like ? If Rels is lynched => marv look bad. Game is lost because marv is not a good scum player + is being suspected. BAD
This is entirely incorrect and you should realize this is entirely incorrect since every other player in this game realizes this.
What ? You really think marv could have survived 2 lynches in this high level town ? He was being lynched sooner or later; so the correct assumption to make here is that he did his best to give his teammate an advantage.
1: marv + Rels is the team. How do the rest of the game looks like ? If Rels is lynched => marv look bad. Game is lost because marv is not a good scum player + is being suspected. BAD If DP is lynched => LYLO; marv and I, who were the two potential lynches, look super bad. A LITTLE BAD and UNLIKELY ANYWAY If marv is lynched => It looks like both scum didn't want to vote for each other. I look bad. BAD
2: marv + DP is the team. How do the rest of the game looks like ? If marv is lynched: DP look very good and I look super suspicious. GOOD If DP is lynched: the game is almost lost for scum since marv is not a good enough scum player to survive two more lynches. (or, he's a too good town player to fake it as scum). BAD but UNLIKELY If Rels is lynched: LYLO. DP looks null. marv looks OK. SUPER GOOD
On December 19 2015 00:15 Rels wrote: Whatever though. You've played with me. I try to deflect the lynches off my partners; but I bus them if it's not possible to do otherwise, and I DONT TOWNREAD THEM IF THEY ARE SUSPICIOUS.
SOTW: Damdred AFK: D1 I deflect the lynch from him by saying "he will be checked". I get him lynched D2 to keep fidei alive + town cred. Fidei: I scumread him starting D2.
Drams: I bus the shit out of Shining when Trfel starts to suspect him. SL is a potential scum.
Crossfire: my partner is in my lynch list the entire game.
Resistance: I scumread Artanis starting phase 2; I prove with meta that Xata is town, but I have a hard time calling him town.
Except you never townread marv and your read on him throughout the game was super fucking fishy. What you said after D1 makes no sense if i compare it to your actions on D1. I don't care what you did in other games. Especially since Resistance and the xfire game works very differently from normal mafia --> bussing your partner / at least one partner is the correct play for mafia in both of those games.
Drams: see where it got you? we figured the shit out of the game
SOTW: you only survived because town was fucking retarded.
wow.. that were those games.
I would have won Drams if not for the retarded role claim. It was an absolutely correct play. And I'm only proving that marv and I would have bused each other as scum.
Pretty sure you did whatever the fuck marv told you to do in the scum qt.
Yep because "not busing each other even when we are #1 & #2 lynches" is the master plan marv concocted.
On December 19 2015 00:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: EBWOP:
On December 19 2015 00:19 Rels wrote:
On December 18 2015 23:33 Rels wrote: 1: marv + Rels is the team. How do the rest of the game looks like ? If Rels is lynched => marv look bad. Game is lost because marv is not a good scum player + is being suspected. BAD
This is entirely incorrect and you should realize this is entirely incorrect since every other player in this game realizes this.
What ? You really think marv could have survived 2 lynches in this high level town ? He was being lynched sooner or later; so the correct assumption to make here is that he did his best to give his teammate an advantage.
I thought everyone was fucking retarded for not town reading you or whatever. Now it's a high level town.
Yep. I'm only considered for lynch because my scum play is good.
On December 19 2015 00:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: EBWOP:
On December 19 2015 00:19 Rels wrote:
On December 18 2015 23:33 Rels wrote: 1: marv + Rels is the team. How do the rest of the game looks like ? If Rels is lynched => marv look bad. Game is lost because marv is not a good scum player + is being suspected. BAD
This is entirely incorrect and you should realize this is entirely incorrect since every other player in this game realizes this.
What ? You really think marv could have survived 2 lynches in this high level town ? He was being lynched sooner or later; so the correct assumption to make here is that he did his best to give his teammate an advantage.
I thought everyone was fucking retarded for not town reading you or whatever. Now it's a high level town.
Yep. I'm only considered for lynch because my scum play is good.
On December 19 2015 00:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: EBWOP:
On December 19 2015 00:19 Rels wrote:
On December 18 2015 23:33 Rels wrote: 1: marv + Rels is the team. How do the rest of the game looks like ? If Rels is lynched => marv look bad. Game is lost because marv is not a good scum player + is being suspected. BAD
This is entirely incorrect and you should realize this is entirely incorrect since every other player in this game realizes this.
What ? You really think marv could have survived 2 lynches in this high level town ? He was being lynched sooner or later; so the correct assumption to make here is that he did his best to give his teammate an advantage.
Starting here I will stop writing "rayn assuming you're town". This is the non return point; if you're scum, you have won. Gratz. Please stop making me lose my time for nothing if that is the case. rayn, what is funny if you lynch me is that you're bad for underestimating BOTH marv's and I. It is absolutely not possible for us to not bus each other at deadline when we are #1 and #2 lynch candidates. marv's scumplay is obvious 'cause he's not motivated; but by lynching me you're insulting his intelligence as well as mine.
On December 19 2015 00:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: HOW CAN YOU EVEN FUCKING SAY YOU DON'T BELIEVE I AM TELLING THE TRUTH IF YOU DON'T THINK I AM MAFIA?!?!?!?
I've scumhunt the entire game, and the only reason you're not townreading me for it is because you know I can fake that pretty well. The end. I think I won't ever be mislynched as scum ever again 'cause it's so easy to appear good with info; but last game I was mislynched as town 'cause I voted town over scum in a close vote.
On December 19 2015 00:32 Rels wrote: Starting here I will stop writing "rayn assuming you're town". This is the non return point; if you're scum, you have won. Gratz. Please stop making me lose my time for nothing if that is the case. rayn, what is funny if you lynch me is that you're bad for underestimating BOTH marv's and I. It is absolutely not possible for us to not bus each other at deadline when we are #1 and #2 lynch candidates. marv's scumplay is obvious 'cause he's not motivated; but by lynching me you're insulting his intelligence as well as mine.
Except your reasoning is flawed for both of you since: 1) you were not the main lynch target when marv was around 2) you didn't even read what was going on when you came back so....
#1 who was then ? #2 obviously if I'm scum that's not true
On December 18 2015 23:33 Rels wrote: OK I will resume one last time because you are all annoying me.
What happened at EOD1 marv is the lynch. marv starts posting. Rels is the lynch. marv deflects off Rels and pushes on DP. DP sheeps rayn on Rels. Rels deflects off marv and pushes on Arsoul. Possible lynches: marv, DP, Rels.
1: marv + Rels is the team. How do the rest of the game looks like ? If Rels is lynched => marv look bad. Game is lost because marv is not a good scum player + is being suspected. BAD If DP is lynched => LYLO; marv and I, who were the two potential lynches, look super bad. A LITTLE BAD and UNLIKELY ANYWAY If marv is lynched => It looks like both scum didn't want to vote for each other. I look bad. BAD
2: marv + DP is the team. How do the rest of the game looks like ? If marv is lynched: DP look very good and I look super suspicious. GOOD If DP is lynched: the game is almost lost for scum since marv is not a good enough scum player to survive two more lynches. (or, he's a too good town player to fake it as scum). BAD but UNLIKELY If Rels is lynched: LYLO. DP looks null. marv looks OK. SUPER GOOD
Well read this again and think about it. It doesn't make DP scum; I merely put it to show EOD1 didn't make DP town. It proves I'm town. If you think I'm scum you think marv and I are beginner scums. The end. I've solved the game for you. You're bad if you don't make the right decision. You have like 30 hours to think about it.
On December 19 2015 00:32 Rels wrote: Starting here I will stop writing "rayn assuming you're town". This is the non return point; if you're scum, you have won. Gratz. Please stop making me lose my time for nothing if that is the case. rayn, what is funny if you lynch me is that you're bad for underestimating BOTH marv's and I. It is absolutely not possible for us to not bus each other at deadline when we are #1 and #2 lynch candidates. marv's scumplay is obvious 'cause he's not motivated; but by lynching me you're insulting his intelligence as well as mine.
Except your reasoning is flawed for both of you since: 1) you were not the main lynch target when marv was around 2) you didn't even read what was going on when you came back so....
#1 who was then ? #2 obviously if I'm scum that's not true
1) marv the most -- DP, rsoultin, you, greymist were all considered scum (and damdred and me by greymist, but we were not exactly "possible lynch targets")
And Damdred and you were indicating being more Ok for my lynch over anyone else.
On December 19 2015 00:40 raynpelikoneet wrote: 2) is it not? why is it not? would you lie about spending time with your gf instead of playing mafia if you are scum? and you call other people cheap.... hilarious. maybe you should think what is AtE and how people use it and why, because you are the worst in that regards.
On December 19 2015 00:44 raynpelikoneet wrote: And this conversation is not going anywhere.
So instead of martyring which you hate so much, please, go answer the rest of my case and then prove why i am scum or DP is scum. With this conversation you are not going to achieve anything, because you will not convince me that you are right and i am wrong. And it will end up you losing the game regardless of your alignment.
I cannot prove DP is scum. He's scum because you're not and I am not. He didn't do much that game, was uninterested most of the time, and didn't really show care about it. These are not slam dunk, but they are scum points. OK to answer your big posts.
On December 19 2015 00:41 Rels wrote: You have like 30 hours to think about it.
You had about 72 hours to convince me otherwise and all you ended up doing was saying stupid shit.
It's the most logical analysis I've ever done.
No it's not. The most logical analysis you have ever done is when you called Noobking mafia in the first game i played with you.
Yep (= good times. But his arguments were so bad it wasn't hard. Here I just proved marv's behaviour made me town, which is pretty good with a player like marv. (=
On December 19 2015 00:50 Rels wrote: Man you know how it's going to look more or less. Answering cases is super easy but takes times. Is it worth for me to do ?
yes it is worth. unless you have a super good case on DP.
If you're scum you're a bitch. Actually if you're scum I town!concede. DP can you do the same ? So we don't have to waste even more time doing shit that have no purpose.
On December 19 2015 01:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: Well you are either town or LightningStrike x2. And i don't believe anyone can be LightningStrike x2. I am sad.
Why ? I'm like extremely happy with the way I prove marv made me town. It's the best case I've ever done.
On December 19 2015 01:04 raynpelikoneet wrote: Like that's super fucking terrible Rels, the way you use "out game information" to make people believe you are not mafia. It's super super fucking terrible.
On December 19 2015 01:04 raynpelikoneet wrote: Like that's super fucking terrible Rels, the way you use "out game information" to make people believe you are not mafia. It's super super fucking terrible.
On December 19 2015 01:35 DarthPunk wrote: Like I honestly don;t know what the fuck rels is thinking these past days and nights. His arguments stopped making sense and he stopped doing the scumhunting that made him look even a little bit townie.
Mm I think my marv's behaviour analysis was good though. Our play just made no sense if I was scum with him.
On December 19 2015 01:52 Artanis[Xp] wrote: hey hey
sorry rels <- tina
i'm not sure what we were doing that was so horrible since we were just having fun, but yeah, i didn't mean to make you upset
that post you hated so much from me was 100% true xP
bueno
sorry to see you go DP...would have liked to see your town game at some point. nite!
Meh I'm the one apologizing I was super virulent because I was bad. And the moment I finally have fun doing a case I know is good I ruin the game. I would scumread you again though for that shop phone story p: unbelievable for me.
@rsoul: BUT IF YOU WERE SCUM IT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE BEST SLIP EVER!!!! it looked like you had slipped you actively lurked; when Arta said "so happy to be right; Tina called it when marv first posted in the thread", it reaaaally looked like to me he didn't mean to say you actively lurked which sounded like an awesome find. =D
@rayn: sry I'm not home until late at night ... but if you're still there around midnight with pleasure (=
Finally: GG. Sry for ruining the game. I really think I would have made this post as scum though; I've made a similar one in resistance where I was scum. But I can see how it's "cheating" in both cases.
GG DP. No slip to be found in your filter. A few things blew my mind in my scumhunt beliefs: mainly, I didn't think someone making up an explanation could be town. D2 to D3 I was just mad I couldn't find scum and I think it showed until today, where I was actually relaxed and ready to convince rayn. p:
rayn, I've thought about it during the weekend and actually I think you had no right to decide to concede for town. I would have made this post as either alignement and it didn't break any "unspoken rule" like DP and you have suggested. I don't think I would have convinced you to vote DP over me based on a lot of logical things pointing at me being scum (I'm pretty sure I would have voted myself in your position), so it's no big deal though.