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[M][N] Mini Mafia: The (kinda) Vanilla Experience - Page 60

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Vivax
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
22089 Posts
October 23 2015 19:02 GMT
#1181
On October 24 2015 04:01 Xatalos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2015 04:00 Vivax wrote:
I did skim that game trying to catch a glimpse of something sexual


Did you?


Are you telling me there is?
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
October 23 2015 19:03 GMT
#1182
Btw less than 2 hours to lynch and Slam is still getting lynched.

Which is not the way to go.

Now get on rayn/Chromatically instead and it should be a decent lynch.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
October 23 2015 19:04 GMT
#1183
On October 24 2015 04:00 Chromatically wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2015 03:54 marvellosity wrote:
On October 24 2015 03:43 Chromatically wrote:
On October 24 2015 03:36 marvellosity wrote:
On October 24 2015 03:35 Chromatically wrote:
marv. Do you think you have reasonable evidence that I make townreads as mafia and not as town? Do you think the case you've made for that is good enough?

what's that got to do with anything?

it's not why i scumread you

it's an observation

So it had nothing to do with your read on me? Why would you post it then? You did use it as a point towards me being mafia.

It got a reaction from me because a) it's completely untrue and b) it's such a nitpicky thing to bring up. You pointed out one game as town I played and used it as the basis to say that I don't make townreads as mafia, which is a clearly unsupported statement that you then used as a point against me.

in Detention as town you didn't make a townread
in Order as mafia you did

it's not totally untrue. look for yourself.

Yes, I'll take your word for it that those statements are true. Then, in your post, you used those games to imply that I don't give townreads as town, which is a clearly untrue statement you made based on very flimsy evidence. There's no point splitting hairs over this, you should know what I meant.

I said on d1

and prove your statement

i went into the 2nd to last towngame you played and the only townread you gave d1 was as a direct response to a question, you never offered one unbidden (unlike this game and Order)

go show me you giving unbidden townreads as town
because i can find you doing it as mafia but not as town
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
October 23 2015 19:04 GMT
#1184
On October 24 2015 04:03 Xatalos wrote:
Btw less than 2 hours to lynch and Slam is still getting lynched.

Which is not the way to go.

Now get on rayn/Chromatically instead and it should be a decent lynch.

all the best townplayers on Slam

Slam isn't the way to go

pro xata logic as always
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
October 23 2015 19:05 GMT
#1185
On October 24 2015 04:04 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2015 04:03 Xatalos wrote:
Btw less than 2 hours to lynch and Slam is still getting lynched.

Which is not the way to go.

Now get on rayn/Chromatically instead and it should be a decent lynch.

all the best townplayers on Slam

Slam isn't the way to go

pro xata logic as always


It remains questionable if the majority of people voting for Slam are even town. In any case, Hopeless and yamato are hardly "top players".
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
October 23 2015 19:06 GMT
#1186
yamato is a good townplayer when he actually plays, which is all too rare.

me/rayn/yamato

pretty good
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
October 23 2015 19:07 GMT
#1187
BH do something with your vote
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
GlowingBear
Profile Joined May 2014
Brazil12446 Posts
October 23 2015 19:07 GMT
#1188
I don't want to lynch chromatically. Especially now that Vivax is voting him.

And I've been putting thoughts on Rayn. His flip one is bad. He said it was very unlikely I was scum and that I was very level headed with my read in Vivax.

Then Vivax said something about me scum reading him before asking questions, and Rayn agreed and called me scum over the same posts he called me "very unlikely to be mafia". It doesn't make sense.

I'm voting rayn
I'm adorable.
Onegu
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States9699 Posts
October 23 2015 19:07 GMT
#1189
On October 24 2015 03:03 Xatalos wrote:
Hm Onegu's return seems okay... Although why is rayn 90% town? Elaborate?


I have started to read rayn completely on how he reacts with me. If he is more buddy to me its likely he is scum. If he is bitching about my play he is town. Oh he enjoys playing with me but wants to win more as town so he wants me to do more.
Try TL Mafia!!!
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
October 23 2015 19:08 GMT
#1190
On October 24 2015 04:02 Vivax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2015 04:01 Xatalos wrote:
On October 24 2015 04:00 Vivax wrote:
I did skim that game trying to catch a glimpse of something sexual


Did you?


Are you telling me there is?


Well, tbh it might be better to focus on this game now.

I think your vote on Chromatically is fine enough. I may drop my own vote on him if need be. It's just that I'm not totally confident about him and rayn seems like the clearer choice.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Vivax
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
22089 Posts
October 23 2015 19:08 GMT
#1191
Anyway enough joking.

I'm not 100 % sold on Chrom. One of the things that give me pause is that he goes for unusual angles of attack, but in a rather flexible way compared to, say,GB.

I can sum up GB like this: Spends like a page of filter talking about me, the argument switch thingy,
then moans and bitches about Onegu not being scumread over him,
some emotional outburst here and there,
after bitching about Onegu he pops a vote on BH for reasons I don't really understand (then BH comes in and is BFF with GB no questions asked but whatever, that's a thing apart),
then he suddenly feels enlightened and makes public he was doing a shitty push after asking some really weird questions I don't understand the point of up to this point,
and then unvotes and kinda afks.
gumshoe
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada3602 Posts
October 23 2015 19:08 GMT
#1192
On October 24 2015 03:53 yamato77 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2015 03:35 gumshoe wrote:
ebwop

yamato I'd like some answers to the following two question.

1: What did you find scummy about slam early on?

Slam I don't really agree on.



in response to

Slam and Hopeless are town why?


also what about hopeless? what made you read him as town? has anything changed?

you bore me

what do you think about them?

going back now and explaining why I thought those things at that time is pointless

not much has changed


These are simple questions and it's important you answer, earlier I asked bh questions, he answered in a convincing way so I town read him. I'm doing the same thing now. If your actually town and you dont want me to waste time tunneling you then please answer.

Also I'm not asking you to pull more reads out of your ass, I'm just asking you to explain ones you've already given. Which is something you should do right away if you want to avoid being bored by nosy gumshoes / :

so once again, why the slam scum read early on. Why the hopeless town read.


gumshoe bullshitting at 120%~~Prplz
Chromatically
Profile Joined January 2012
United States1700 Posts
October 23 2015 19:09 GMT
#1193
On July 15 2013 05:31 Chromatically wrote:
I have to rewrite this because my computer crashed, so I'm just going to c/p the parts that hz wrote (without the quotes from Super). Original case is here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=420227&currentpage=28#549

The Super Case
Show nested quote +

Super introduces himself as a player who understands that people cannot always respond to posts quickly and as a player who thinks that applying pressure on other players is a good thing. His later posts do not exhibit these traits at all.

Before even starting to scum-hunt, Super is concerned with self-preservation. He is not even interested in getting good conversation flowing to produce information. Self-preservation comes first.

This isn't scummy. I've already talked about this at length, but everyone's first priority is to stay alive. If there was suspicion on me, my first priority is to remove it.

Ask yourself: what would you do if you walked into the thread and there was a case on you? You'd defend yourself.

Show nested quote +

One of the first things that Super says comes to his mind is that Cloud has not posted yet. Why is this the next thing that Super thinks of, after self-preservation? He later gives a reason but I cannot understand how he arrived at that train of thought.

? His reason makes sense. He didn't have time to do anything more than skim, so he called out someone he thought was lurking. Not particularly townie, but not at all scummy.

Show nested quote +

Next Super says that he has not yet scum-hunted, but so far I was his biggest scum read. That would be fine if his reads were fluid after he actually did some scum-hunting. As we will see later though, his read on me persists until I really hammer home the point that there is no good town motivation for his read on me.

This isn't scummy. Bad reads =/= scum, bad townies make bad reads all of the time. You say there's no town motivation, but there's really no scum motivation. Scum know that they won't get a mislynch on you, so they have no reason to scumread you.

Show nested quote +

Also, why is he so worried that posting this early read might push him to being lynched? I think that it is because he already knows that he cannot actually justify his read on me.

I didn't really understand what he was saying in that sentence.

Show nested quote +

Next, Super calls me a lurker but says that the other Europeans should be excused for not posting much. I had already made several posts at this point and am a European myself.

This isn't scummy. This is bad reasoning. Bad reasoning often comes from bad town. If anything, this is overzealous scumhunting.

Show nested quote +

He says that he wants to see more from me, but does not give any indication of what he wants to see. When I later make posts directed towards him he completely ignores then as though they are invisible. If he had a scum read on me and wanted to see more, why does he not reply to my posts?

This, once again, isn't scummy. If I say that I want a scumread to post more, that does NOT mean that I'm planning on replying to them. All it means is that I want them to post their reads and reasoning more often. I'm probably NOT going to reply to them, most of the time, unless I have something in particular to say. I cannot understand why you think this is bad.

Show nested quote +

Next Super says that he still thinks I am scum. His reasons are that I have not posted anything which contributed to finding scum. I may be biased on this point, but I do not see how a town Super could say that I had not been contributing. Note that I stopped playing at around 2 AM my time last night, but Super seems to think that it was scummy of me to stop posting. Why would a town player think that?

Once again, bad logic =/= scum.

Show nested quote +

Now, Super is still more concerned with self-preservation that with finding scum. He also gently suggests that we should consider a no lynch. If a town player was under pressure at this point they would push a scum-read as hard as they could, but they would not try for a no lynch. Super switches his primary scum read from me to Xzavier, without ever saying why I suddenly became less scummy or Xzavier became more scummy (as Xzavier has not posted in a long time). This is still self-preservation without pushing a scum target with any significant force.

Why would a scum player say that they were just giving reads in self defense? I'll admit that this is a decent point though.


So almost all of hz's case is stuff that isn't scummy. When I look at Super's filter, I see someone who's at least trying to find scum and share their reads freely. This is way more than you can say for Kirby.

On July 13 2013 14:04 Chromatically wrote:
Yes, we'll technically never be able to totally disprove the possibility that Stim is town. It's just far less likely. Look at what Stim has done.

Lie about his anger
Town motivation: none
Scum motivation: screwed up the explanation because the anger was faked in the first place

Martyr
Town motivation: none, far more likely that he just explains
Scum motivation: knows he can't explain, so he acts emotional to get people to switch

Day 1 from Newbie XLIV, my second most recent town game.

Accidentally posted it in that game so whoops.
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
October 23 2015 19:09 GMT
#1194
On October 24 2015 04:06 marvellosity wrote:
yamato is a good townplayer when he actually plays, which is all too rare.

me/rayn/yamato

pretty good


It feels extremely questionable to sheep you three when yamato is hardly playing at all, rayn is 100% scumreading me for BS reasons and you're defending rayn for almost as bad of reasons.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
GlowingBear
Profile Joined May 2014
Brazil12446 Posts
October 23 2015 19:10 GMT
#1195
On October 24 2015 04:08 Vivax wrote:
Anyway enough joking.

I'm not 100 % sold on Chrom. One of the things that give me pause is that he goes for unusual angles of attack, but in a rather flexible way compared to, say,GB.

I can sum up GB like this: Spends like a page of filter talking about me, the argument switch thingy,
then moans and bitches about Onegu not being scumread over him,
some emotional outburst here and there,
after bitching about Onegu he pops a vote on BH for reasons I don't really understand (then BH comes in and is BFF with GB no questions asked but whatever, that's a thing apart),
then he suddenly feels enlightened and makes public he was doing a shitty push after asking some really weird questions I don't understand the point of up to this point,
and then unvotes and kinda afks.


I didn't bitch because I was being voted over onegu. I was bitching because I couldn't understand how the same fact could grant a player a scum read and another player just a null read, especially when sheeping a bad case is way worse than actually bringing a bad case.
I'm adorable.
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 23 2015 19:10 GMT
#1196
On October 24 2015 04:07 GlowingBear wrote:
I don't want to lynch chromatically. Especially now that Vivax is voting him.

And I've been putting thoughts on Rayn. His flip one is bad. He said it was very unlikely I was scum and that I was very level headed with my read in Vivax.

Then Vivax said something about me scum reading him before asking questions, and Rayn agreed and called me scum over the same posts he called me "very unlikely to be mafia". It doesn't make sense.

I'm voting rayn

ofc you are.
obviously you vote for your townread, who was a townread AFTER i scumread you, which is why you are now voting for me.

this game is hilarious.
table for two on a tv tray
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
October 23 2015 19:10 GMT
#1197
your posting a defence of a case as similar to you just giving out random townreads here? where your motivation was literally to stop that wagon forming and lynch your own choice?

srsly?

okay.

nothing further your honour
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
Chromatically
Profile Joined January 2012
United States1700 Posts
October 23 2015 19:11 GMT
#1198
I'll only be able to be on my phone a little from now until lynch. rayn is a bad lynch. Slam is okay.
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
October 23 2015 19:11 GMT
#1199
On October 24 2015 04:09 Xatalos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2015 04:06 marvellosity wrote:
yamato is a good townplayer when he actually plays, which is all too rare.

me/rayn/yamato

pretty good


It feels extremely questionable to sheep you three when yamato is hardly playing at all, rayn is 100% scumreading me for BS reasons and you're defending rayn for almost as bad of reasons.

this is why you are not a competent townplayer
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 23 2015 19:11 GMT
#1200
Back to Heroes, we are owning with HF. <3
table for two on a tv tray
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