EPT[M][N] Mini Mafia: The (kinda) Vanilla Experience - Page 58
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Vivax
22298 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
On October 24 2015 03:19 Vivax wrote: How GB reads "shitty arbiter" as "mafia" will probably remain an unsolved mistery for the rest of eternity. I didn't? I was referring to your 30 minutes inactivity -.- I know it's little but you were mainly joking, then you afk'd, then you came back only when I cited your name | ||
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Vivax
22298 Posts
I have no idea what you're talking about. It rather feels like there's an angry chihuahua constantly barking at me and nobody knows why. | ||
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
##unvote I was being a hot headed little bitch. | ||
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
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Chromatically
United States1700 Posts
On October 24 2015 03:19 marvellosity wrote: no, rayn told me meta made you look town and I've gone and looked and I disagree. can you tell me qualities you think you're displaying this game that you didn't in your mafiagame? Your only point on my meta is that I didn't give townreads on D1 in one town game while I did in one mafia game. That's what you're basing your disagreement with the meta on. There's a billion other things you could have looked at and you picked the one that happened to match me up with my mafia game. That's my problem with this post. Like you could have looked at the way I gave townreads, or looked at other games (like the one game where I hard defended a lynch candidate all D1), but you picked one small thing like that and made it the basis of your read. I think I'm showing a town thought process and evolving my reads to the thread, which I have a hard time doing as mafia. Shouldn't that be something that you look for in my games though? What's the point of asking me what I think? | ||
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Vivax
22298 Posts
On October 24 2015 03:19 Blazinghand wrote: So Vivax, if I understand what you're getting at here, you were tonereaded by Vivax as scum. After people came in to defend you, Vivax then said "GB is pushing easy targets, so he's still scum". Why is GB scum and not a tunnelled townie for this? I think you raise a good point with the marv flip-flop (though again, marv is easy to read this game, so we don't really care about him) but "this guy got tunnelled and changed his reason for scumreading someone" seems like... well, in a vacuum it seems like the kind of thing a townie would do, especially if it's a little unpopular. Scum could easily change reads (as you note GB did on Marv), so why not do that on you? If I've missed context here, fill me in. Also, if I recall accurately you were one of the early supports of the RNG lynch on rayn. However, glancing through your filter, I don't see anything other than cursory interactions with him between voting him and now, and yet he's no longer on your list. You also write: Which wasn't too long ago. Where do you stand on rayn, and why? I'm not saying "hurr durr vote rayn now" but I'd like to see a clear statement from you on your position on raynpelikoneet, who In fact there wasn't a read switch by GB in regard to marv, it was my mistake. I think you're typing faster than you read. I stand on rayn's porch, contemplating life, mostly. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25559 Posts
On October 23 2015 19:22 Vivax wrote: Somebody give me a good reason why GB is town cause I don't want to feel like I'm just chasing stupid and not malicious cases. Marv if your theory about Slam is correct it also means that everybody who actually started making cases on rayn before slam hooked himself into that bait was town. Cause that's usually when scum bites: When townies are wrongly suspicious about a town dude. clearly I'm town then hue On October 23 2015 19:23 marvellosity wrote: there were people attacking rayn before? who was it? I did due to RNG. I think a few people piled on as well. You can take a look in like the 20s and 30s On October 23 2015 19:28 marvellosity wrote: the funny thing is, one thing that makes me unsure about GB being mafia - both rayn and I stated pretty early that Vivax was town and I think it was kinda obvious we were serious about it. So I guess GB-mafia in that instance somehow decides to go against both me and rayn and push a very weak meta case? it's practically suicidal. maybe he's just town and believes it... dno right now I consider this moderate evidence that GB is town. It would be the easiest thing in the world for GB to drop this, right? So him sticking to it means he must really BELIEVE it (however incorrectly?) more than he cares about living. This isn't a dumbtell, it's a determinedtell. For example, the biggest shitfests between 2 people are always "town and town" cause nobody is more determined and stubborn than a tunnelled townie. On October 23 2015 19:29 Vivax wrote: My most vivid memory of scumslam was a game on omgus actually. He just did his slam thing with the derpy posts but usually piling up on mislynches that were already going on with a few attacks on the bandwagoned townie to cement that. I'm not really good at reading him except from the way he behaves with his choice of target. On October 23 2015 19:31 marvellosity wrote: there was a game that just got played where everyone seemed quite surprised Slam was mafia? rayn's abandoned game I think? Unfortunately I didn't really read the game to find out why everyone was surprised about it I can corroborate that I have no ability to read Slam. I think I've tried a couple times and been wrong. From what I can tell, he does try to figure out thae game as town but is completely unwilling/able to share his information with others in a way that lets us form a read on him. He definitely says things, in addition to his random crap, that has a good chance of being correct. It's hard to draw a read on this, though. He's not dumb, he just doesn't have tells that most people can work off of. Maybe a vigi will just shoot him or a cop will check him oh wait oh oh no oh | ||
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Vivax
22298 Posts
And my legacy, I decree, is to give marv thread control, I'll basically sheep him and work as his propaganda minister. From this point on you stand with us or against us and all the other demagogic blabla. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25559 Posts
On October 23 2015 21:46 Xatalos wrote: Really marv? I think Slam has said a lot more interesting stuff already than he ever did last game (as scum). There he just basically hanged around, trolling, but I thought he was town because he was so "natural" in the thread. This game... Mostly I was enlightened by him liking ritoky for his "town BH makes reads based on his RNG push DING DING" post (which really makes me feel better about ritoky too, since I forgot that post and wondered a bit about his confidence in BH being town... Now I understand). Also I liked how he brought up the weird progression from rayn regarding GB... Which basically went like certain town -> die scum, based on.. What? Missing posts from GB earlier? Then why that hard defense of him in the first place, without even reading his posts? And now the confident scumread because that's where the thread was flowing? What I'm trying to say is, reading Slam's posts made me feel better about Slam and ritoky, and worse about rayn. Not really sure how you came to your conclusions marv...? On the other hand, GB has felt a bit better lately. The Vivax read is a bit... But like marv said, it feels like a really weird target to pick as scum. And I liked his meta thing about me. And he's unlikely scum with rayn (no reason for scum rayn to suddenly go on the offensive this late in the day otherwise after hard defending him before). So I See you going to the mat for slam here. How does Slam convince you rayn is scum? I'm glad to see someone on board with the "GB being stubborn could be a town-tell" boat, but how does this have to do with an associative tell with rayn? Rayn is totally willing to attack teammates when appropriate as scum, and in a game with no investigative roles I'd be a lot more confident about rayn lasting through lylo as scum than I would GB. Can you explain in a bit more detail why rayn as scum wouldn't change his mind on GB as scum, if GB's push starts to falter? On October 23 2015 21:59 Xatalos wrote: Ah, and Chromatically... Not sure yet. He's kept being pretty reasonable / constructive all game, but I don't really think there's been much (if anything?) I've agreed with him on... And that case against me is just, pretty much describing my town meta features as scummy points. The stuff he's saying about me is null at worst. And then I'm confidently scum? I've received a couple of cases like that (from scum) before. Most notably the case that called me a "drama queen" or something (LOL). That was a funny case. Anyways, it feels kind of like those cases, nitpicking null/towny things and painting them in the worst possible light. It doesn't even feel like an actual case, more like an effort to try and find *somethjng* (anything) bad about me... And failing, but calling me scum regardless. This post is bad and you should feel bad. On October 23 2015 22:34 Xatalos wrote: Let's see... My current thoughts are... (not in any particular order) Town Vivax Blazinghand ritoky Alakaslam Nullish GlowingBear gumshoe Hopeless1der Onegu yamato77 marvellosity Scummy Chromatically raynpelikoneet That's where I'm at... I think there's at least 1-2 scum between rayn/Chrom and then 1-2 in the null section. Why do you have marv as scum? As I noted earlier, Marv is like supremely demotivated as scum now (to the point of almost throwing games, never trying, conceding with 3 or 2 scum alive, etc). It's super obvious to me that marv is town, since he's actually trying to play the game rather than be a little whiny baby about it. Just look at his game history. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On October 24 2015 03:31 marvellosity wrote: Koshi's case - weird entrance (well maybe) and picking things out on someone that don't make them mafia (on sinani). Kinda feels the same way to me about ritoky maybe. and you get really aggressive when he calls you mafia here. just like you're throwing yourself at me even though i just pointed out you made townreads as mafia and not as town, and you're making townreads this game it's totally over the top and unwarranted. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
1: What did you find scummy about slam early on? Slam I don't really agree on. in response to Slam I don't really agree on. also what about hopeless? what made you read him as town? has anything changed? | ||
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
yamato I'd like some answers to the following two question. 1: What did you find scummy about slam early on? Slam I don't really agree on. in response to Slam and Hopeless are town why? also what about hopeless? what made you read him as town? has anything changed? | ||
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Chromatically
United States1700 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On October 24 2015 03:35 Chromatically wrote: marv. Do you think you have reasonable evidence that I make townreads as mafia and not as town? Do you think the case you've made for that is good enough? what's that got to do with anything? it's not why i scumread you it's an observation | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25559 Posts
On October 23 2015 22:55 marvellosity wrote: when you lynch rayn literally every time he is mafia and don't ever lynch him when he is town, then you can tell me what and when i should be reading rayn understood? historically, is this actually true when you're town? On October 23 2015 23:01 Xatalos wrote: I can't say I'm an expert on rayn, but I'll just say that I feel his current game is closer to his scumgame on VS than anything else. I seem to have missed it in your back-and-forths with marv or maybe I read it and forgot it, but a link or a quote or something when you make statements liket his is important if you want to actually convice people. Of course, I am pro rayn lynch since he is scum, because he got RNGed, so as your ally in this let me advise you: posts like this won't convince peopel. Please link me pls [QUOTE]On October 23 2015 23:08 marvellosity wrote: my reasoning was that you're a bit of a pussy as mafia and it would be much easier for you just to townread me when if you are mafia you know there is a 0% chance of me ever getting lynched. the fact you pushed me before under similar circumstances weakens that as a heuristic though although i doubt you'd make the same mistake twice[/QUOTE BTW this is the reason that GB isn't necessarily scum for tunnelling Vivax. Obviously "stuborrnness as a towntell" is an easily fatigued heuristic, but you don't want to chuck it out just for that reason. [QUOTE]On October 23 2015 23:10 Chromatically wrote: So I assume no one agrees with me on Xatalos then? [QUOTE]On October 23 2015 21:59 Xatalos wrote: Ah, and Chromatically... Not sure yet. He's kept being pretty reasonable / constructive all game, but I don't really think there's been much (if anything?) I've agreed with him on... And that case against me is just, pretty much describing my town meta features as scummy points. The stuff he's saying about me is null at worst. And then I'm confidently scum? I've received a couple of cases like that (from scum) before. Most notably the case that called me a "drama queen" or something (LOL). That was a funny case. Anyways, it feels kind of like those cases, nitpicking null/towny things and painting them in the worst possible light. It doesn't even feel like an actual case, more like an effort to try and find *somethjng* (anything) bad about me... And failing, but calling me scum regardless.[/QUOTE] Here are the basic points I made: Xatalos was active without posting anything particularly in the beginning of the game (mafia do this because they want to appear active but have trouble posting content), waffling on votes (mafia do this because they want to keep their options open and not ignore their partners), throwing suspicion on rayn initially (mafia do this to make people look worse than they are), weird read on BH (mafia throw out townreads without thinking about why). The last two points are meh, but the first two I think are pretty clearly scum traits and certainly not "null at worst" from any perspective. The filter length defense is the only good one I've heard, but filter length is not everything. If people really don't want to lynch Xatalos, I'll obviously consolidate onto someone else. But I do think I made a strong case and I feel good about it. [/QUOTE] Uh, isn't that consistent with Xat buying into RNG, townreading me, and pushing the RNG target? The actions you've described are like, the actions of someone who has joined the glory of RNG so unless you're saying "buying into RNG is scummy" I dont' think you've got a case here buddy [QUOTE]On October 23 2015 23:24 marvellosity wrote: [QUOTE]On October 23 2015 23:20 Xatalos wrote: [QUOTE]On October 23 2015 23:08 marvellosity wrote: my reasoning was that you're a bit of a pussy as mafia and it would be much easier for you just to townread me when if you are mafia you know there is a 0% chance of me ever getting lynched. the fact you pushed me before under similar circumstances weakens that as a heuristic though although i doubt you'd make the same mistake twice[/QUOTE] Btw can you really say I'm a pussy as scum after that game where I and Artanis bussed each other all game?  That was fun.[/QUOTE]yes, bussing each other is pussy way out because it means you don't have the balls to tunnel a townie gonna have to try meta Chrome at some point. My evening cleared up (i was gonna be afk all weekend and spring that on you guys when i finished work, but my plans fell through) [QUOTE]On October 22 2015 13:59 Chromatically wrote: Alright yamato is off the lynch list for me. I have a hard time seeing him faking anger about getting scumread by people for this and I don't think he's just making up his reasoning there as mafia. Both of those last posts feel really town to me.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]On October 23 2015 00:26 Chromatically wrote: I don't really see why GB is mafia for that read rather than it just being a bad read. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE]On October 23 2015 02:47 Chromatically wrote: [QUOTE]On October 23 2015 02:41 marvellosity wrote: pretty hard to shake my townfeels on rayn when he comes into the thread saying he has 2 townreads and no mafiareads when at that point i had 2 townreads and no mafiareads and the 2 townreads were the same as mine.[/QUOTE] I like this post a lot, I get a strong town feeling from this. [/QUOTE] I don't like any of these posts much. I don't think the anger thing is a good reason to townread yamato. I made an unexplained punt vote on GB and it reads as a bit of a weird defence. I'm also not sure that Chrome should be getting strong townfeels from the post i made rather than others/the whole body of play. Also have this nagging feeling where Chrome described ritoky as picking up on "textbook mafia tells" and he's essentially doing the exact same thing with Xatalos. I don't like it. I understand picking up on Xata's read progression on rayn, I think it's possibly reasonable to be suspicious of that, but the rest of it I don't think I like much.[/QUOTE] I definitely think Chrom isn't being well-organized on his Xat push. He's on my "people i might consider lynching who are not named raynpelikoneet today" which is fairly impressive since currently that list is very short and includes raynpelikoneet, even though it explicitly excludes him, because of the glory of rng seriously though I can't track that thought process. Still pushing forwards, one way or another I'll have this sorted out by the time I'm caught up with thread. what an adventure! [QUOTE]On October 23 2015 23:28 marvellosity wrote: we're not gonna lynch rayn i'm not totally confident he's town but i have enough reason to take him off the table today[/QUOTE] your call on this since you are obvtown and the best non-me player here, but if he is scum and got rnged, think about how mad he'd be to get lynched cause of that kekeke | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
he already said so himself | ||
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