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[M][N] Completely Normal Generic Mini Mafia - Page 162

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Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
September 28 2015 10:20 GMT
#3221
This is somewhat tinfoil-y but I actually think this is quite relevant. I'm going to summarize a narrative in ceph's filter. This is all about marv.

Here is everything ceph said about marvellosity (every single thing I could find in his filter) up until day 3:

On September 17 2015 03:12 Cephiro wrote:
Still got the last 15 pages or so to go through more in-depth, but I'm getting a fairly good idea of how I'd like to lynch today. Assuming nothing significant to change my mind comes up: Wile > JAT > marv/geript


On September 17 2015 03:30 Cephiro wrote:
Short ver while I'm catching up:

JAT mostly for reasons that have been brought up, as in producing mostly irrelevant content. Sure, he talks and asks stuff but so far it feels like he's being around for the sake of being around.

marv because even though he is "participating", it doesn't seem he's doing enough with the information he goes after. I mean, he asks a lot of questions and posts his opinions, but he doesn't really try to get anything done with it. He could be just trying to get a better read on the game as a whole, but I don't see him pushing for anything strongly enough to get something done. With his post quality and amount, I'd expect him to try to get something done with all the information he's gathering. So far I don't see that happening? If you compare it to your play for example, you have more nonsensical stuff in your filter that's irrelevant than he does, but you're much more actively pressuring your scumreads and trying to get shit done.

geript because half of his posts are absolutely irrelevant to the game, and the remainder feels like the level of I don't give a shit -commitment. As in, he talks about palmar meta like it's somehow significant.
I'm not saying meta is a thing that should never be used, but infuriates me when I see experienced mafia players here using it like "But player X has said hi as town in three games in a row, so if his first post isn't hi he has to be scum".

Seriously? Maybe I don't just understand you veterans metaing each other for the stupidest reasons ever and I'm the idiot, but that's honestly how I feel about most of your "meta" analysis towards each other.


Here he explains the other people. Sure there is one paragraph about marv on meta thrown in there. This is probably the most substantial thing he wrote on marv.

On September 17 2015 04:52 Cephiro wrote:
Currently writing up about marv. Even if it's not going to get him lynched today, nor might it be the best content, I want to be transparent and share the things about his play that make me suspicious of him at the moment.


Check the date

On September 17 2015 05:15 Cephiro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2015 05:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why are you curious? Like do you think he could be mafia for it?
If you do, how is that possible when you - assuming you think you are town - do basicallythe same thing?
If you don't think he is mafia what's the point of bringing this up ~2h before the lynch?

No, do not write about marv. If you do not think you can lynch him there is absolutely no reason to write about marv over let's say Wile - because right now it is not clear the person you want to lynch is getting lynched over your (assumedly?) top town read.


Cephiro you are really scummy when you do this shit... you should know better.
You are focusing on irrelevant matters instead of relevant ones.


Well I guess you're correct that it's not the best thing to do at this moment if I'm not certain it'll get him lynched, which I do doubt. So I'll post my thoughts on marv during the nightcycle when it won't interfere with more important matters at hand, fair point.


Check the date

On September 17 2015 06:03 Cephiro wrote:
I have better things to do than explaining why I'm leaning town on Onegu at this point. I'd prefer him not lynched today, it doesn't look like it's going to happen that easily either. Instead of focusing on why I think onegu is town, you should be focusing on figuring out who you want to consolidate the lynch on.

I didn't give reasoning for saying I think one of Koshi/you are town either, same with Moosy, but you don't seem to be care about that at all. Just forget nitpicking for now and focus on the relevant stuff.

If you want reasons for my townreads, I'll give them later when they're relevant as I said I'd do with my opinion on marv (unless you all actually end up lynching me, which would be quite sad.)


2 in one post. The townread on Onegu and yet another "I'll maybe talk about marv at some point".

He didn't talk more about marv during that cycle.

On September 19 2015 03:56 Cephiro wrote:
Not planning on getting modkilled, nor do I plan on getting lynched or NK'ed. In the unfortunate case that happens, I won't be flipping red anyway.

##vote Wile E. Coyote

Still do think marv is a good lynch, but not in a hurry to do anything about it since we have "confirmed" scum to kill. I guess I'll post my thoughts on it during the night or later in the daycycle, depending on when I feel like it. (Or unless you people have a specific reason you'd want it any earlier, given that it's not currently very relevant.)

Doubt mafia wants to kill me with my current level of activity, would make sense for them to keep me around to try and push a mislynch on me later.

Someone was also asking about my scum play, whoever that was: I can do pretty much anything as scum (and town too). Bussing is more like a rule, with not bussing being the exception for me. At least when it comes to games where there are at least 3 mafia members. So while I won't mind if you read me favourably based on my voting and actions at the end of D1, you shouldn't think it has to make me town.


Ceph explains that he's mafia here because he buses as mafia

Also, more delay on marv.

On September 19 2015 04:15 Cephiro wrote:
Only from your perspective though. Which you'd claim regardless of your alignment. If you want to convince me you're town, you can help me get marv lynched tomorrow.


On September 19 2015 05:33 Cephiro wrote:
We lynch Wile, simple as that. Also I'd prefer to stay as a mislynch target for now, so I'm going to stay that way.

You know I want to get marv lynched (tomorrow), that's more than enough for now. You'll get the reasoning in due time. I don't see why I should be around talking about irrelevant stuff meanwhile. First we deal with the matter at hand, and then we move onto the next thing on schedule. I've seen flailing about instead of going for the obvious thing that should be done more than I care to remember.


Ok so here we are. This is the picture I wanted to paint. Up until this part of the game we have a vague idea that ceph wants to lynch marv the day after wile without really expanding on the reasons. The important part here is what happens next. The last post I quoted is the last thing Cephiro posted before going afk for like 70+ hours.

On September 22 2015 19:46 Cephiro wrote:
I'm around now and I'm on pace with the thread, just going to re-read filters and take my time doing so before I post anything of substance. After that I'll stick around for a short moment only. I'm not sure if I can be around during the lynch deadline today, but I'll try to be available. If I'm not able to be around then, I'll be online some hours before the deadline to place my vote. Unless something surprising that I missed before comes up with my filter re-reads, I'm still very keen on voting marv today.


This is the next post in line. He posts this one and then drops the case on marv. I'm not gonna quote the entire thing, you can read it here:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24883997

Of course by this point marv is the consensus lynch and everyone basically considers him having claimed mafia. Which is why his case is received with a hint of sarcasm.

On September 22 2015 21:31 justanothertownie wrote:
meh

I think the good points in this post were already made by me earlier and things like the "Palmar doesn't deserve those townreads" are just not alignment indicative. Also the last quoted post is clearly not serious and I don't know how you can miss that.


On September 22 2015 21:47 Palmar wrote:
Cephiro drops hard hitting analysis on the guy we're lynching anyway and isn't even trying to defend himself.


So yeah. I think this is very relevant and possibly the best reason to think cephiro is mafia. He took the "right" stance on marv (calling him mafia) without ever pushing or trying to actually act on it, only to hop on the wagon when the train was already half way there with a massive case.

The point of ceph's case cannot be to lynch marv, because all he has to do to lynch marv is just put his vote on him and fuck off, so why did he write a huge case on marv when marv was being lynched anyway? Did he want a piece of the credit pie?



Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
September 28 2015 10:21 GMT
#3222
This last post of mine basically sealed the deal for me I think.

I'm really sorry if I'm the one idiot who townread scumdred and this is a gamethrow but meh. I'm not that bad.
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
September 28 2015 10:24 GMT
#3223
Like the tinfoil-y part is:

It would be super marv-y to tell ceph it's okay to say he wants to vote him, but not commit to it until it's clear marv can't turn jat and I around. (at that point in the game jat and I were by far the most influential people in the game).

Like of course this is just theory, but even if this isn't the case, the convenience of the timing and the awkwardness of that case is pretty conclusive to me.
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
September 28 2015 10:50 GMT
#3224
I would feel a lot better if someone would come in and tell me that I'm right and everything is going to be allright and hug me.
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
September 28 2015 13:26 GMT
#3225
I am justifying this to myself as much as I am justifying to you guys.

Like the one thing that bothers me is the kill points to damdred (jat was very much okay with killing him). But I don't know.

This game is hard and I blame rayn for dying like a piggie.
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
September 28 2015 13:31 GMT
#3226
On September 28 2015 13:43 ritoky wrote:
cuz i was kinda down on cephiro after he over-answered the living shit out of a simple question i asked him. but then he goes and has the same thought i had about palmar in regards to talking to ceph about the damdred lynch like he is town, calling the points in the case good -> only town thing, lynch ceph? just kinda a jarring moment. after being wrong on geript his first reaction is lynch ceph not, "well, i was wrong, maybe i should reconsider damdred too."

now i kinda like ceph again. bleh.

Me being wrong in one place doesn't really mean I'm wrong again.

Like I went through most of ceph's filter earlier and the beginning of damdred's, and I still believe the same thing, that ceph is far more likely to be mafia.
Computer says mafia
KelsierSC
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
United Kingdom10443 Posts
September 28 2015 14:13 GMT
#3227
Day 5 Votecount


Cephiro (2): Damdred, Palmar

Palmar (1): Cephiro

Not Voting (1): ritoky


Voting ends in at 21:30 GMT (+00:00).
Zerg for Life
Damdred
Profile Joined July 2014
15669 Posts
September 28 2015 16:32 GMT
#3228
Can you answer my few questions I posed to you when you have a few minutes palmar.
Damdred
Profile Joined July 2014
15669 Posts
September 28 2015 16:42 GMT
#3229
Well I'm curious, yesterday you used how I pushed people like me pushing geript over say easy lynch was more towny of me.

Ceph abandoned his push on me to push harder target palmar what do you think of that
ritoky
Profile Joined March 2011
United States6851 Posts
September 28 2015 18:47 GMT
#3230
aight here i am to solve the game.
“When interest is at variance with conscience, any distinction to make them friends will serve the hollow-hearted.” -Henry Home
ritoky
Profile Joined March 2011
United States6851 Posts
September 28 2015 18:55 GMT
#3231
i wonder to myself. is d1 rayn ever wrong about every mafia?
“When interest is at variance with conscience, any distinction to make them friends will serve the hollow-hearted.” -Henry Home
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
September 28 2015 18:56 GMT
#3232
On September 29 2015 01:42 Damdred wrote:
Well I'm curious, yesterday you used how I pushed people like me pushing geript over say easy lynch was more towny of me.

Ceph abandoned his push on me to push harder target palmar what do you think of that

I don't think he's actively pushing me. He said the vote on me was "to show me that he's not afraid of voting me" and I think he's still at 80/20 for voting you.

He has to, if he cannot convince me to vote you, he has to convince you to vote me, so he has to put the feelers out there.

I have a pretty general rule "never trust anything said or done in lylo". Just focus on the days leading up to it.
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
September 28 2015 18:57 GMT
#3233
On September 29 2015 03:55 ritoky wrote:
i wonder to myself. is d1 rayn ever wrong about every mafia?

rayn can be spectacularly wrong at points.
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
September 28 2015 18:59 GMT
#3234
On September 27 2015 09:41 Damdred wrote:
Looked through some of palmar and marvs filters a few points that I find pretty interesting.

1) While it could go either way and its not above either of them. Marv said something about palmar getting to many easy town reads at one point I believe.
2) Palmars initial pressure or going at Marg came at n1 when it did palmar has no reason as s um to really put the screws to Marv over some little things.
3) The day Marv is lynched there is somewhat decent push going to lynch me (Scott and rit vote me jat considers it) palmar walks in and goes um no lynch Marv. Jat helped here to but it might make a bit of sense for mafia palmar to take it to 1 mislynch instead of waiting another day for gweipt. That's a bit wifom.

Srill reading a bit more. But I'm still leaning ish on palmar being town.

Palmar you and Marv have played together since xxx though and it hasn't been quite like that? I thought you still kept to your initial way of doing things.


Since XXX I have changed the way I read marv.

It used to be "err on the side of mafia until I get confirmation he's town", but now it is "err on the side of town until I get confirmation he's mafia".

He has thanked me privately for making that change in approach

(My old style has caused him to literally ragequit a game where we were both town).
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
September 28 2015 19:03 GMT
#3235
On September 27 2015 11:57 Damdred wrote:
Palmar could you tell me why you town read ceph d1 until today started in some form of detail when you can?

Or at least in the do not lynch d1 and why didn't you consider it when Marv pushed it?

I don't remember marv pushing him and I kinda cba reading my own filter to find out how I reacted.

I townread ceph on day 1 based on nothing but the tone of his overreaction to koshi's initial pressure. I think I posted something like "cephiro's overreaction isn't scummy at all".

Also, yes, I townread him yesterday because there is only 1 scum left and I thought it was geript. Until today I had barely read anything cephiro has posted (his posts are long, not particularly well constructed and mostly boring). The reason I want to lynch him now is mostly just poe, but reading his filter I did find the weird approach to the marv lynch.

Like I want to point it out again, he has been trying to take credit for the marv lynch (I think) but he deserves literally none of it. He simply said he wanted to kill marv without ever trying to convince anyone until he dropped that case long after the lynch had been decided.
Computer says mafia
Damdred
Profile Joined July 2014
15669 Posts
September 28 2015 19:07 GMT
#3236
Yes that's true...

Do you think his reaction to me talking about voting logic is scummy?(what's your opinion there)

At points it seems he's generally frustrated at ne but treats me like I'm town acting dumb rather than a potential scum read trying to pile up on him. That's interesting
ritoky
Profile Joined March 2011
United States6851 Posts
September 28 2015 19:10 GMT
#3237
sorry i am not posting my internal debate very much. probably should be doing that.
“When interest is at variance with conscience, any distinction to make them friends will serve the hollow-hearted.” -Henry Home
ritoky
Profile Joined March 2011
United States6851 Posts
September 28 2015 19:13 GMT
#3238
i am getting to the point in my head where if palmar is mafia i am just going to lose this game. pretty much every single person in the game would have to had been wrong and fooled. i think outside of koshi and day 1 geript no1 has thought palmar is mafia all game....jat thought he was presumably the most likely town coming into this phase (assuming from his post) and coming into this phase i was also in that spot.

i also have a hard time believing that palmar either afk /c's marv kill on koshi over a blue or wants the kill on koshi over a blue. he was so blue hunt hungry the time i was mafia with him.
“When interest is at variance with conscience, any distinction to make them friends will serve the hollow-hearted.” -Henry Home
Damdred
Profile Joined July 2014
15669 Posts
September 28 2015 19:38 GMT
#3239
Rit opiuons on the vote wagons d1?

idk its a weird feeling between the two I hate being wrong in lylo
Cephiro
Profile Joined May 2011
Finland1934 Posts
September 28 2015 19:38 GMT
#3240
Fuck you Palmar for making this a 1v1 between you and me, you know you basically scumclaimed to me with your posts and you're relying on the fact how well well you've been read and using the time I'm away to discredit me to the extent you can.

Even now you're saying you haven't properly read my and Damdred's filters which shows how absolutely baffling your approach to the lylo is.

I can more than well admit at this point it does seem I was wrong on Damdred, because you're being so obvious right now.
Your bigger post is a textbook scum!Ceph play. It's exactly what I do when I'm scum. You make a case where any ambigious facts are painted as "This is probably the only thing that could be looked in his favour", you ignore all the obvious statements and information that is favourable even though they've been posted so many times it should be clear as day (But not to you, because you don't even fucking read the filters properly, because you're that confident about not needing to), then raising the most convoluted ideas of all time about a point to make it suspicious. Like, I'm scum because I managed to peg onegu as town? Not to mention the multiple instances of "There are clearly more ways for this to be viewed favourably towards Ceph, but I'm going to raise the one and only extremely unlikely possibility which makes him look worse, and make it look like it's the only and obvious possibility." It infuriates me so much to see you do exactly what I do as scum and I don't want you to get away with that.

Why the fuck would I concentrate on defending a townie that is barely getting any traction at all and in no way a serious lynch candidate? What the fuck does my town-read on a player that died N1 to a vigshot matter in the remainder of the game? It's the most irrelevant thing in my filter you could be interested in.

You say that "if you were Mafia, you would've been 100% content with me lynching Damdred and rolling with it."
No, you would never ever have sat on your ass and gone "Oh well, I guess I was wrong / Ceph is right and we'll lynch Damdred today." You know I would have called you out for that even for how sure I was about Dam, because you know that even if I can push someone very hard, I don't blindly tunnel into someone until they die. So obviously you'd go for a more convoluted play, especially as you could use me picking up on you as a point against me, and knowing that you have the higher cred of us two makes that play a no-brainer for you to take. I know how calmly and how often you've rolled well in endgame scenarios as scum. And you knew that only me or jat would pick up on you that hard, but leaving me alive is significantly easier of an 1v1 for you than going vs jat.

Like you've had damdred town all game since the start, and you still claim you've just read the first few pages of his filter. It's like you saw his defense for Wile and decided "I'll just think he's town for the whole game based on this", which is just absurd. You wouldn't lock onto a townread that hard because of such a minor thing if you were town. Not to the extent that you're not considering him an option at 1 mislynch nor at LYLO.

You keep talking about how I delayed my marv read, when I have multiple times pointed out already why that is the case, and you know it if you read my filter as you claimed to. Yet you ignore all of those times and just pick out the worst you can find. I've said multiple times that I stopped and didn't start pushing marv with what I had on him up to that point at eod1 because rayn was telling me it's not fruitful to do so at that point, which I agreed with, because there was no way marv was going to get lynched D1, and spamming the thread with my marv read to create more chaos at that point, as my cred alone at that point would never, ever have gotten him lynched that day, would've been absolutely pointless and just given scum more control over the mislynch of their choice.

I've also explained multiple times that N1 I did not feel the need to participate because I was going to live through regardless, D2 we had self-claimed Wile by the time I was around, I was not going to die N2 with how much conftown there was around, and I posted my case on D3 when I came around, even if the lynch seemed to be locked at that point.

And if I hadn't posted? You would've called even more bullshit on me. It's like, if I didn't post it at all and just voted, I'd be still getting shit about being a pure sheep, and when I do, I get called out for trying to cred. I don't need to get any extra cred for the marv lynch. I know I'm not the main cause who made it happen, but what I've said and what is true that I've been correct about him since the start, and shown that opinion to others very clearly as well, constantly reminding of my intent of wanting to lynch marv. That is something you can't deny no matter how many things you want to ignore.

Yeah, I've mentioned multiple times I like to bus as mafia. So do many other players. The thing which me and jat pointed out multiple times (which you again, decide to just fucking ignore), is that while we'd both be completely fine with bussing, we aren't retarded enough to play this game with the goal of "Kill all my scumbuddies before going for town". And that's what you're proposing right now. That I'd go for Wile + marv since the start of the game, with the amount of cred I had at the start of the game? You're not that stupid Palmar. You just have to say that because you're the dirty fucking scum here. You saw how jat flipped town. Go figure which is more likely, that I, who not also had extremely similar timing and reads with jat regarding scum + voted and tried to push Wile on D1, is going flip scum? It's not happening. I've pointed out enough how stupid of a case that is, and you know it.

There's absolutely no way you're not scum with your read progress and painted case towards me. And this is not OMGUS, even if I know that you will try to paint it as such.

Today will be simple rit & dam, you vote for Palmar, or you lose the game.
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