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Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
On September 02 2015 01:56 ObiWanShinobi wrote: It's been repeatedly explained to you you fucking moron. Bug someone else. Wow. Okay. I would explain to you why that's a pretty poor town play, but either (I) you know and you don't care, or (II) you're mafia. Either way, it's clear that there's no further point in talking to you or listening to anything you have to say. | ||
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JudgeJudy
188 Posts
![[image loading]](http://media.giphy.com/media/4seT1wVx2CFX2/giphy.gif) Can someone highlight the case against TT because I haven't really seen a good one yet aside from a point here or there or a general "well somebody has to be scum so I guess it may be him" read. On August 24 2015 05:52 Tictock wrote: How about we all switch to rayn? Rels is being pushed too easily imo, plus he's doing stuff. Rayn is suddenly sheeping geript who he said was mafia last night and hasn't given anything solid for his scumread on rels. He was part of the rayn swap and he was even one of the first people to bring it up. If four mafia are on Rels with tube showing up at the last second to hammer, what exactly is the play here? For TT to totally make the others look terrible, sacrifice the rest of the team, and hope he makes it to end game by himself? It seems a lot easier just to go along with the yamato lynch or whatever he finds interesting. There is evidence in his filter that he is looking back to try to understand stuff. Is there something else that I am overlooking? Like what makes him look better than ritoky? Heck, I'd lynch obi before TT at the moment. | ||
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Damdred
15669 Posts
Or how most of today has been about throwing shade on the other people who will be up for lynch soon and defending himself. Also idk how today anyone can say he's really re evaluating its mostly sheeping and defending and shade... Though that could go either way tbh. Mistly I'm just pretty sure that obi is town, I'm 3p and geript is town | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
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geript
10024 Posts
Links n stuff if you wanna look | ||
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JudgeJudy
188 Posts
![[image loading]](https://38.media.tumblr.com/d8293cdc96cca8805215e169dceff64c/tumblr_ni7wihLOGe1u0fhdyo1_500.gif) On September 02 2015 02:44 geript wrote: @jJ part of it is how his townplay in previous games I would classify as rudimentary. Like in XIII I think it was he was scum reading Rayn for being too aggressive. Basically a lot of his reads when he's town come almost primarily from types of reads you see from newer players. But this game his reads are far more sophisticated. Like instead of being only partly right post D2, he's solely been picking the 'right' wagons. His posts are kinda generic instead of pretty heavily opinionated; which is more similar to his scum game. Plus, it looks very much like he's realized he can Poe-wise allow both ritoky and I to be confirmed town; but still shifts towards other targets while keeping ritoky open as that stance becomes untenable. Like there's no one sure fire thing. It's just a bunch of little stuff. Well to be fair, those were newbie games and he was a newer player at that point. I guess I see what you're saying with the mafia game being more structured, rather than summaries of events/quotes like I see in the first few. Personally I'm not very familiar with how TT plays in general and I'm not a big meta guy to begin with, however reading through the Holy Guardians game that you linked, one thing I noticed in his mafia game was that he was willing to give null or scum reads on his buddies, but when push comes to shove, he voted for the mislynch. On June 14 2015 05:59 GlowingBear wrote: Day 4 Vote Count Scott (3): NydusHerMain(4): Damdred, Scott, VisceraEyes, Onegu On June 17 2015 05:04 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Day 5 Vote Count Scott31337 (3): Tictock, VisceraEyes, milo109 milo109 (2): Scott31337, Onegu Twice this happened where the lynch was decided by a single vote and on both occasions he went after the town player rather than bussing his mafia buddy for cred. On day four it was a losing battle where he was on the wrong side of a mafia lynch, yet his vote didn't budge. It seems like the better play there would have been to bus and win the game on day 5. The sample size for his mafia games is small, but does a day two bus of rayn seem like something that lines up with his general behavior as mafia because it doesn't seem like it. | ||
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Damdred
15669 Posts
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
On September 02 2015 02:37 Damdred wrote: I really don't care to make a case just some of his posts seem mafia oriented like his post about having a good read on ksc but not pushing against his nuke. Or how most of today has been about throwing shade on the other people who will be up for lynch soon and defending himself. Also idk how today anyone can say he's really re evaluating its mostly sheeping and defending and shade... Though that could go either way tbh. Mistly I'm just pretty sure that obi is town, I'm 3p and geript is town Assuming this is in reference to me. Defending, when? I honestly don't give a shit that you and rit are scum reading me, Obi sorta wanting to lynch me makes sense since I've been the main person questioning him, and Geript has been wrong most of this game so not too concerned with his opinion on me. Sheeping yes, sorta. Shade, I guess. I like to push people for reactions. It's interesting to me that JJ is sorta defending me when I've been off and on pushing him as mafia, and that pretty much seals him being town for me because if he is mafia he needs to find other people to mislynch after today and I'm clearly a good person to push on. @ JJ The best way I can think to reexplain (and it may not even be a very good point) is to look at the analogy of a lynch vs nuke. A nuke is static and doesn't offer much chance for discussion, whereas a lynch is dynamic and generates a lot of content. Look at how Obi has responded to pressure thus far, it doesn't seem like he'd offer much to discuss if we were all pushing on him. | ||
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Damdred
15669 Posts
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
Nothing else really adds up to me. | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
JJ you could be right on TT; and maybe even right on ritoky. A point in your favor there is that ritoky's RB choices are pretty goddamn awful (HTS, Chez, Me, Damdred). It's just that I don't think that JJ is as set in stone town as you think he is. There's a variety of things that are decent hints that he's mafia. The meta points are by no means rock solid and I haven't sold them as such, but overall I don't think they favor him. Players don't improve that vastly over a handful of games when the improvement in the newbie games was relatively slow. That's a really important point. | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
In Holy Guardians I got a semi-free pass from people, especially Scott, because they said the didn't believe I could pull off such a good scum game w/o coaching (was only my 3rd game of mafia every). Now your going with the notion that I must be scum this game because I can't possibly have improved as much as you think I have. Doubters gunna Doubt  | ||
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Damdred
15669 Posts
you should convince me now rather than when we get to lylo that you are town and that I'm wrong on rit really | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
On September 02 2015 04:16 Damdred wrote: Actually tt it is kinda important if I'm scum reading you lets say rit and obi both are town and flip town. I'm more convinced that obi flips town than rit though for a few reasons. you should convince me now rather than when we get to lylo that you are town and that I'm wrong on rit really Eh, vote for me or vote for Rit. Doesn't matter to me. Unless you have some alternate idea for who could be scum, then I'm all ears. | ||
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JudgeJudy
188 Posts
![[image loading]](http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Joey-Crawford-Block-Call-Dance-Lakers-Pacers.gif) On September 02 2015 04:09 geript wrote: A point in your favor there is that ritoky's RB choices are pretty goddamn awful (HTS, Chez, Me, Damdred). That point is really important though. As a town roleblocker, you've got an incredibly powerful role, you're essentially a cop plus a medic because you can block the mafia kp and then when the kp never shows up, you can lynch the guy you blocked. He is roleblocking the towny HTS, the claimed survivor who almost certainly isn't carrying out the mafia kp, and yourself, the guy who already has a green check on him. Like the only good claimed rb was chez. He thought you of all people was the guy most likely to carry out the mafia kp last night? All today he attacks me for arguing against the "99%" confirmed town, yet here he is roleblocking another "99%" confirmed town to try to stop the mafia kp. There is a reason he has to do this though. He already claimed rb so he has to claim targeting someone, yet he can't block someone like me, obi or TT because that would mean his lynch pool is reduced by one each time he confirms another player. Doesn't this make sense to you? | ||
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Damdred
15669 Posts
Green check and few ah hah moments aside | ||
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Damdred
15669 Posts
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ritoky
United States6851 Posts
honestly don't care and haven't read anything since my last post. just gonna try to lynch mafia and block kp in the night since i am confirmed town. | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
I think Rit has a point that Tube likely could have carried both KP, I'm not sure but I have no way of knowing so that point is a bit moot. Otherwise though I think your points about his RB targets (like you mention above) being bad is solid. Honestly the last time I saw RB targets this bad I tunneled a poor newbie for like 3-4 cycles (he did turn out to be town though, just terribly misguided) but Rit is no noob. His reasons for RBing HtS are terrible "She's fooled me before, so maybe..." and your point that the rest of his targets don't add up for trying to block KP. Rit's role claim really bugs me too. The fact that he somehow knew RNG voting gave him an upgrade seems off, but it's kinda host wifom in the end. I liked your points (and you brought this up a lot earlier too, like d2) about how he really stuck to his RNG votes too without really discussing much anyone else in the game. I think it was only after Fidei made his WoT posts that pointed out Rit was doing nothing else that Rit made some effort at reads, but as you pointed out his reads didn't really go anywhere (no follow-through on them). You also mentioned how Rit listed rayn as a scum read but never pushed him, I recall I pinged out this post N2. Which to me just looked like a soft defense of rayn at the time. Mostly because he went out of his way to explain why rayn might have changed his mind on geript rather than get the answer from rayn himself. That's what I recall offhand about what I liked from your case. | ||
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