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Ritoky claims that he was role playing throughout days 1 and 2. Except that after his fifth or so post on d1, he claimed that his case on me was "serious". He is now having a go at JJ for his vote to lynch the Mafia Godfather, when he himself dodged that day entirely.
I am utterly convinced that ritoky is Mafia. I have thought his play has been scummy literally from the start of the game, and JJ's masterwork case says everything that I think far more eloquently than I ever could.
One more thing - his play so far this day has been to cast dirt around as much as possible, without really making a serious case on anyone. I have considered both JJ and TT, and I have rejected the possibility that either could be scum. Geript cannot, logically, be scum (based on the rit RB claim). Damdred is confirmed 3P. I haven't liked OWS' play this game. If ritoky isn't the scum, I think it's almost certainly him.
I don't see town ritoky getting this shrill about a possible mislynch. Like, however you slice it, JJ's case was unbelievably well thought through, logical and well written. I've read it three times and there are no illogical statements or untoward assumptions.
Also, this is Mafia people. At least one of the people in the game is 100% lying. Ritoky should know this well enough. His outrage sounds totally fake to me. He is the correct lynch and I beg you all to vote for him.
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One other thing before I get to work - consider how many times ritoky has tried to shift the discussion to setup issues (whether or not Damdred is 3P, how many Mafia there are, etc). It's bizarre that he claims those things as attempts to solve the game, since in my limited experience they are exactly the tools that Mafia use to avoid scum hunting while also trying to look like they are contributing.
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On August 30 2015 07:59 Tictock wrote:
Ok good, I was gunna be so mad if Rels faked that redcheck.
1 mafia left, who's gunna flip it?
Honestly if it's not KSC or Obi we are gunna have to do some hard rethinking tomorrow.
You all know what I think.
Wonder if Chez was in on mafia QT as traitor... meh prob doesn't matter.
@TT I've been through your filter and it seems that you were pretty much in the tank for an Obi lynch today. But you've ended up sort of going along with JJ's ritoky push. Yes, you did say just after that that you thought ritoky was scummy, but this jarred me a little bit going through your filter. It doesn't seem like you've made much of a concerted push on Obi today. Can you explain?
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@JJ Here's the thing bugging me about the ritoky case, regarding his RB claim.
The HTS RB completely makes sense. Given that I was tunnelling him so hard when nobody else really was at all, it's totally plausible that he guessed that I was tracking him/watching HTS, and so needed an excuse to go to HTS. Alternatively, he's just plain risk averse and wanted to cover his tracks in any event. HTS died n1 (well after rit's claim), so that was safe from a mafia pov.
However, he has also claimed RBs on three other people: Chez, Damdred and geript. Now Damdred can be explained away - as a confirmed third party, even if he did have a blockable action, a counter-claim from Damdred could easily be explained away. Besides, town were unlikely to ever lynch Damdred to confirm his role (ie whether it was anti-town or pro-town). I need to check geript's filter, but I think his was a claimed day action (day cop check on the person he votes for). So ritoky could have guessed that he would have no night action to block. But Chez? Chez wasn't in the mafia QT, as far as we know, so if they didn't know Chez was a traitor, RBing him without knowing his role was super dangerous. Like, if Chez flips town (and there's nothing to say rit would have known he wouldn't) then we auto lynch rit.
I'm going to quickly read through your case again to see if you covered this -- apologies if you did.
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OTOH, the thing I find scummiest about his response to JJ's case is re the game setup. The fact is that, as far as I'm aware, nobody knows for sure how KP are delivered this game. HTS asked about KP delivery at the start of the game, and Onegu said "I'll get back to you". That's it. I don't see why town ritoky just blindly assumes the setup is the one that exonerates him. If I'm in ritoky's position, and I am *actually* town, my response to a watcher claiming to have seen me and only me visiting someone is "well, I know I'm town, so it must be the GF visiting. It could be that KP are delivered factionally as well, in which case the GF would always deliver them." Instead, he is absolutely certain that KP are delivered a certain way, and it's the way that benefits him.
Also also, I don't know that factional KP delivery makes sense given the GF role. If the GF is untrackable and unwatchable then does that not render mine and Waves' roles entirely pointless, more or less, until we manage to kill the GF? Also, we know that the GF's upgrade meant that he could make one of his mafia buddies also untrackable/unwatchable as well. I dunno why there would be any value in there being TWO untrackable/unwatchable mafia in a factional delivery game. Especially given that one of the flipped mafia was a PGO who wouldn't need to visit people.
IDK, I really want to hear others' thoughts on my post above re rit's claim of RBing Chez.
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This is the time when Rels usually would have been on to banter with me. RIP my EUW buddy.  (
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Wow, that smiley went wrong.
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Day 5 Votecount
ritoky (3): JudgeJudy, Fidei86, Tictock
Not Voting (4): geript, Damdred, ObiWanShinobi, ritoky
Currently, ritoky is set to be lynched with 3 votes in . Please do not forget to vote. You may vote for yourself, and a vote of "no lynch" is allowed.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/492852-the-new-personality-voting-thread
Please vote in the voting thread if you want your vote to be counted.
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@JJ: Yeah, I'm probably just going to vote with the majority.
I can accept the fact that someone here probably knows more than I do because I haven't put the effort in to find the best lynch myself.
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@OWS Kind of need you to pull your socks up here and help out. If you're town, this is the meaty bit of the game. You can't coast by any more (if you're town) because everyone has to be up for consideration, and that most certainly includes you.
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On September 01 2015 22:25 Fidei86 wrote:
@OWS Kind of need you to pull your socks up here and help out. If you're town, this is the meaty bit of the game. You can't coast by any more (if you're town) because everyone has to be up for consideration, and that most certainly includes you.
What exactly are you asking for?
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7tlxPQ2.gif)
On September 01 2015 21:55 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
@JJ: Yeah, I'm probably just going to vote with the majority.
I can accept the fact that someone here probably knows more than I do because I haven't put the effort in to find the best lynch myself.
lol lets say its 3-3 and comes down to ObiWanShinobi, town's only hope. Who are you voting for?
On September 01 2015 15:07 Tictock wrote:
The reason I say I feel like his lynch isn't too informative is because there is less contention there. It's the mechanical easy play, (Everyone not on Rayn wagon - green checks = Obi) and it will still be there tomorrow so I'm inclined to leave him alone another day.
I'm still not sure I understand what you are saying here. Could you rephrase it in some way?
On September 01 2015 20:40 Fidei86 wrote:
Now Damdred can be explained away - as a confirmed third party
Do we have a check on Damdred that 100% confirms him as third party or is this based on taking the survivor claim at face value and agreeing that he has been rather pro-town this game? All I recall is LT's claimed check and you receiving a message about the brown.
On September 01 2015 20:40 Fidei86 wrote:
But Chez? Chez wasn't in the mafia QT, as far as we know, so if they didn't know Chez was a traitor, RBing him without knowing his role was super dangerous. Like, if Chez flips town (and there's nothing to say rit would have known he wouldn't) then we auto lynch rit.
On August 31 2015 01:48 JudgeJudy wrote:
Well chez received his mason power on n2 from his upgrade so we know he couldn't have used that power on n1. ritoky claims to have roleblocked him on n2 so if he is town, we know he couldn't have used that power on n2. That leaves three scenarios where chez could have came in contact with the scum team.
1) chez successfully checked a scum on n3 and they became masons.
2) Ritoky did not roleblock chez on n2, they came in contact on night two, and ritoky claimed the roleblock after learning chez was the traitor.
3) geript used his mason power with chez and they connected that way.
I don't think scenario 3 makes a ton of sense because even if geript were mafia, that would mean he would need to claim mafia to chez at a point where he didn't necessarily know chez's alignment. I don't think that's worth the risk.
Scenario two is possible, but lying when there isn't a huge deal to gain at that point also doesn't seem worth the risk.
I think scenario one is almost a certainty. Nobody claimed that they received a mason quicktopic from chezinu. Here are the scenarios that I could come up with:
1) chez chose never to use his role
2) chez used his role on a player that died night three and the mason was never initiated
3) chez masoned damdred and damdred chose not to reveal things because he has no reason to
4) chez masoned a mafia player, made contact and the mason was never claimed
I'm going to eliminate 1 and 2 right off the bat because they don't make a ton of sense. I can't eliminate 3, but if chez is looking for mafia players, he likely doesn't think the third party claimer is mafia. Perhaps he wanted to gain information regarding whether damdred was a non-survivor role, but he never passed that information on to mafia prior to his death in the thread if they weren't in contact otherwise.
That leaves scenario 4, which I think is the most likely. He contacted mafia on night three since a town player would have claimed it. .
Here is my analysis that chezinu did indeed make contact with the mafia team at some point. Not sure if this answers what you are looking for, but it is based on the assumption that no town player ever claimed the receiving the mason qt from chezinu, which means he either didn't use his ability which doesn't make a lot of sense or he sucessfully contacted mafia.
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Didn't Ritoky claim RBer some time during d3? I'll have to check, but in those circumstances the Chez mason would have had to happen n2/d3 so that ritoky could then fake an RB claim on him. So for ritoky to be Mafia, you have to believe your scenario 2 (or that ritoky got waaaaaaaay lucky on fake RBing the traitor, or that he is a double RBer, or that there are two Mafia RBers). I don't see any particular problem with your scenario 2, but you previously said you did.
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I think Rels checked Damdred n1 and got the 3P result.
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Gonna go back through rit's defence and see if he made these points already.
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On September 01 2015 22:35 ObiWanShinobi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2015 22:25 Fidei86 wrote:
@OWS Kind of need you to pull your socks up here and help out. If you're town, this is the meaty bit of the game. You can't coast by any more (if you're town) because everyone has to be up for consideration, and that most certainly includes you. What exactly are you asking for?
You get a one shot gun you have to fire immediately, and if you shoot wrong town loses. Who do you shoot?
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![[image loading]](https://38.media.tumblr.com/b116764161f04c32895f551719a6cfa6/tumblr_n4yu2abUK21svxaato1_400.gif)
On September 01 2015 23:11 Fidei86 wrote:
I think Rels checked Damdred n1 and got the 3P result.
Ah yes, you're right.
On September 01 2015 22:52 JudgeJudy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2015 21:55 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
@JJ: Yeah, I'm probably just going to vote with the majority.
I can accept the fact that someone here probably knows more than I do because I haven't put the effort in to find the best lynch myself. lol lets say its 3-3 and comes down to ObiWanShinobi, town's only hope. Who are you voting for? Show nested quote +On September 01 2015 15:07 Tictock wrote:
The reason I say I feel like his lynch isn't too informative is because there is less contention there. It's the mechanical easy play, (Everyone not on Rayn wagon - green checks = Obi) and it will still be there tomorrow so I'm inclined to leave him alone another day. I'm still not sure I understand what you are saying here. Could you rephrase it in some way? Show nested quote +On September 01 2015 20:40 Fidei86 wrote:
Now Damdred can be explained away - as a confirmed third party Do we have a check on Damdred that 100% confirms him as third party or is this based on taking the survivor claim at face value and agreeing that he has been rather pro-town this game? All I recall is LT's claimed check and you receiving a message about the brown. Show nested quote +On September 01 2015 20:40 Fidei86 wrote:
But Chez? Chez wasn't in the mafia QT, as far as we know, so if they didn't know Chez was a traitor, RBing him without knowing his role was super dangerous. Like, if Chez flips town (and there's nothing to say rit would have known he wouldn't) then we auto lynch rit. Show nested quote +On August 31 2015 01:48 JudgeJudy wrote:
Well chez received his mason power on n2 from his upgrade so we know he couldn't have used that power on n1. ritoky claims to have roleblocked him on n2 so if he is town, we know he couldn't have used that power on n2. That leaves three scenarios where chez could have came in contact with the scum team.
1) chez successfully checked a scum on n3 and they became masons.
2) Ritoky did not roleblock chez on n2, they came in contact on night two, and ritoky claimed the roleblock after learning chez was the traitor.
3) geript used his mason power with chez and they connected that way.
I don't think scenario 3 makes a ton of sense because even if geript were mafia, that would mean he would need to claim mafia to chez at a point where he didn't necessarily know chez's alignment. I don't think that's worth the risk.
Scenario two is possible, but lying when there isn't a huge deal to gain at that point also doesn't seem worth the risk.
I think scenario one is almost a certainty. Nobody claimed that they received a mason quicktopic from chezinu. Here are the scenarios that I could come up with:
1) chez chose never to use his role
2) chez used his role on a player that died night three and the mason was never initiated
3) chez masoned damdred and damdred chose not to reveal things because he has no reason to
4) chez masoned a mafia player, made contact and the mason was never claimed
I'm going to eliminate 1 and 2 right off the bat because they don't make a ton of sense. I can't eliminate 3, but if chez is looking for mafia players, he likely doesn't think the third party claimer is mafia. Perhaps he wanted to gain information regarding whether damdred was a non-survivor role, but he never passed that information on to mafia prior to his death in the thread if they weren't in contact otherwise.
That leaves scenario 4, which I think is the most likely. He contacted mafia on night three since a town player would have claimed it. . Here is my analysis that chezinu did indeed make contact with the mafia team at some point. Not sure if this answers what you are looking for, but it is based on the assumption that no town player ever claimed the receiving the mason qt from chezinu, which means he either didn't use his ability which doesn't make a lot of sense or he sucessfully contacted mafia.
That post is a bit outdated because it was written at a point where I was thinking ritoky was a town roleblocker, but yeah it would need to be the scenario 2 (the first scenario 2).
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How likely do you think that is now?
(<3 these gifs btw)
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Here's the problem in having now.
Lers say rit flips green, who do people focus in on then? Its going to be a lot of people focusing pushing the lynch between jj ows and tt.
JJ is pushing this like he really believes it. His case reads like he believes it. So that's a point for him, he is hung up a bit on mechanical theory that proves rit was framed so that's a bit disconcerting to a point.
OWS is acting pretty town here for him I think. I would never want to lynch him, he's not cheerleading the lynch on and being opportunistic to me.
I feel like tt is being super opportunistic with his voting. Everyone else looked at the case and went hrm that's not bad but picked up a few questions. Even fid who's totally in the tank, but look at TT remarks totally just sheeps without question... That's a problem to me, when you aren't sure about someone it just looks like mafia jumping on a lynch wagon.
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Also we know that geript didn't claim his power was a day time power until today I believe so that's difficult. But ritoky isn't lying there I think
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EPT
