TL Mafia Ban List 3.0 - Page 2

On August 04 2015 23:19 Damdred wrote:
This sorta make me meh which isn't against you BH.

However, I think I would recommend at least that you abstain from judging your own games ban as it might lead to being to impartial and maybe have a backup judge type person in that place.

On August 05 2015 00:24 Palmar wrote:
I support BH taking over the list. I have never had a serious problem with him as a host and I think he's for the most part a viable human being.

I invite the people who doubt this to consider the following:

Even if BH will sometimes make decisions you don't agree with, isn't it even more important that the decision is being made. There will be a reliable, constant presence of a banlist authority. There is basically no one I trust more to be continuously involved in the TL Mafia community than BlazingHand. He has a remarkably consistent record of being here all the time, which in my opinion is the primary asset in the job candidate for banlist moderator.

I know this is going to fall on deaf ears to a forum full of people who think arguing on the internet is so fun they make a game out of it, but can we please not criticize without suggesting a solution? If you think a system where BH controls the list has flaws, please point out how you'd fix these flaws (commendations to Damdred for doing this).

On August 05 2015 00:24 Palmar wrote:
I support BH taking over the list. I have never had a serious problem with him as a host and I think he's for the most part a viable human being.

I invite the people who doubt this to consider the following:

Even if BH will sometimes make decisions you don't agree with, isn't it even more important that the decision is being made. There will be a reliable, constant presence of a banlist authority. There is basically no one I trust more to be continuously involved in the TL Mafia community than BlazingHand. He has a remarkably consistent record of being here all the time, which in my opinion is the primary asset in the job candidate for banlist moderator.

I know this is going to fall on deaf ears to a forum full of people who think arguing on the internet is so fun they make a game out of it, but can we please not criticize without suggesting a solution? If you think a system where BH controls the list has flaws, please point out how you'd fix these flaws (commendations to Damdred for doing this).

On August 05 2015 04:12 KelsierSC wrote:
I'm fine with BH managing the list for clear cut issues e.g when a listed rule has been broken

However I do not agree with the concept of a universal ban list to enforce bans made at a hosts discretion, most commonly the issue of "inappropriate posting." It is clear that some mods have different opinions on what constitutes inappropriate. what gets a person mod killed in one game will go unpunished in the next.

In this area it is not possible to enforce consistently and it will come down to the personal opinion of the host and then of BH.
For this reason the ban list can not be used to punish "inappropriate posts."

Instead each host should be free to decide if they let a player into their game.

If the previous host feels strongly that further "punishment" should be given they can explain the reasons here and let other hosts make up their mind.

In this way when the "offender" signs up for another game, the host can not allow them to play or maybe give them a PM saying "I don't allow the kind of post you made last game so be on your best behaviour."


Overall I would like to see less mod interference and less ban requests. We want to attract people to the community and harsh punishments do not do this, finally this is a game not prison and it should be treated as a such.

On August 05 2015 04:26 iGrok wrote:


Some hosts (such as myself) do maintain their own separate ban lists for particularly egregious players. The ban list might not be 100% consistent, but it's pretty good - much better than making every host decide for themselves.

To even be brought up in the ban list for inappropriate posting, you usually have to be a real jackass in a game. If the host is overreacting, most of the time the community calms them down in the thread. Different hosts have different ideas of what is inappropriate and what isn't. Generally, stricter hosts say as much in their rules OP; read it before deciding to /in to a game. You can decide to personally not play in a particular host's games if you don't like their hosting style.

You are right that this is a game, but that means it should be fun for everyone involved. Personal attacks and/or hyper-aggressive posts aren't fun for some people.

The ban list has served us well over the years. It isn't perfect, but its pretty good. There are other places to play if you really dislike the idea of a ban list.

On August 05 2015 04:38 geript wrote:
I used to play EDH (a Magic variant format) on a consistent basis. There was this one dude named Josh who was a tool. When I say he was a tool, I mean that. He'd quit games he was behind in for no reason. He'd bitch about the state of the game. He'd whine about specific cards (which often were quite fair). He'd complain when someone blew up a key part to one of the combos he played.

On August 05 2015 04:38 geript wrote:

I used to play EDH (a Magic variant format) on a consistent basis. There was this one dude named Josh who was a tool. When I say he was a tool, I mean that. He'd quit games he was behind in for no reason. He'd bitch about the state of the game. He'd whine about specific cards (which often were quite fair). He'd complain when someone blew up a key part to one of the combos he played.

Eventually, people stopped playing because it wasn't fun because of Josh. Then, I decided that there wasn't any reason why we should stop playing when Josh was the problem. So we started playing and quit letting Josh play. Every once in a while, we'd let Josh play a game to see if he could improve/not be a tool. Every time that was a mistake.

The point of the ban list is to prevent Josh from coming to ruin everyone's fun. Yes, it's a game. But like many games, people sometimes get carried away and butthurt over stupid things and make a complete ass of themselves. I mean, I've never done that before; but I understand that at least some people have. The ban list helps those people who do that sort of thing remember that there are real people on the other side of the screen who are playing to have fun too. This isn't a prison, but the "timeout" bans provide can help people change.

Yes. Different hosts have different standards. Me personally, I was very surprised you didn't get a ban for your exceptionally offensive homophobic comments in BH's game. IMO, that type of shit shouldn't be tolerated period. When you sign up to play in a game, you agree to play by the hosts rules. That's part of the deal. If you don't like it, then you are always free to not play in that host's game. Historically, when a host has stepped over the line, the community as a whole has told the host to shove it and corrected the ban to a reasonable amount (if any). I personally can think of at least 3 different occasions where hosts wanted bans that weren't accepted despite host action against a player in that game.

On August 05 2015 05:10 KelsierSC wrote:


well I don't want to derail this but it was fairly clear from what I said , comments in the obs and the lack of action by BH himself that I wasn't being "exceptionally offensive homophobic" but i'm sorry you let yourself be offended.

I don't have an issue with the ban list at all but your story was fun . I just think that it is impossible to enforce consistency for the "inappropriate comment rule" and therefore having the universal ban list decide effectively comes down to letting BH decide depending on how he feels. I've been on the receiving end of comments I judged way over the line and a lenient host didn't take any action, and i've seen people punished for less by strict hosts.
I think allowing hosts to make up their own mind is the better system.

On August 05 2015 05:19 Blazinghand wrote:


As I said earlier, I personally found your use of homophobic slur abhorrent and juvenile, and modkilled you in my game. Despite your misgivings about me, you will note I explicitly did not request ban list action against you for your actions. This is because I recognize that my personal opinion did not line up with what most people on TL Mafia expect, behavior-wise. Given that this is the case, I'm surprised you're concerned about my ability to fairly evaluate bans.

That being said, I understand your general criticism of the concept of a Ban List, but it's not going anywhere.