EPTNewbie Student Mafia XIII - Page 38
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Damdred
15669 Posts
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
Both I've discussed, but to elaborate on Sulf. The list post feels really odd to me and if I were to accept it and merge with my own reads would leave only one scum team of Bara/ Moosy/ Noc. While that is a totally possible team I just can't agree with things being that simple so early. Also I have a really hard time understanding why n00b, Damdred, Flex, Dis, and Bre all ended up where they are on those reads. The post about Bara really was weird too and really only makes sense as trying to show he thinks Bara is scummy for his own reasons. Like even if Bara is scum here this looks like a lame attempt to hop on that wagon without just sheeping. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 25 2015 18:26 Rels wrote: Never said his remarks required thought. lol! How can you try to say that his remarks were prepared before he posted them, and also try to say that he didn't have to think about them before he posted them? This is like the 4th time you've gotten yourself tangled up in a self-contradiction already. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
I am? I made a push on Moosy and have been discussing Sul a lot. Also trying to figure out why rayn and you feel a bit off to me. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 25 2015 21:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: It has been around 15 or so hours. You finished soon? Yeah, I had the same thought when it was only 7 hours instead of 15. Does this feel at all like "too scummy to actually be scum" to you? Have you seen scum players around here actually doing something like this? | ||
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Damdred
15669 Posts
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 26 2015 03:32 Damdred wrote: I'm not sure why you are explaining your scum read of rayn to rayn? Because rayn asked him to. It's not like the rest of us don't get to read it too. This is kind of a dumb post, Damdred. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
Barakos's first post - the first post that everyone's sort of gone through, besides it not really having conclusions, it has a "I'm going to wait and see" feel which is scummy. There isn't that search for information that I saw with other posts. I saw Rayn's first post too but I didn't think it was a big deal since it was the very first post and we can always read him later. Also the reaction test thing makes no sense to me just reading it he holds the same standards for breshke and disformation passing that test when Breshke died more prematurely than disformation. And in reading elsewhere, I would think a reaction test would be something like a fakeclaim/blue claim like happened in that game or a sharp read against what the thread is thinking, something that would actually provoke a reaction and shows alignment. Plus he also doesn't really draw alignment conclusions from that test either. I don't have a problem with voting Barakos, but let me wrap up looking at moosy and see whether he really is worse than Barakos. | ||
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Damdred
15669 Posts
On July 26 2015 04:24 n00bKing wrote: Because rayn asked him to. It's not like the rest of us don't get to read it too. This is kind of a dumb post, Damdred. Come on, you don't do everything your scum read asks you to do. You can't prove to them that they are scum. If you are on the fence about someone and have concerns that's one thing but his scum read looks more like an actual case than trying to figure out if someone is scum | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On July 26 2015 04:19 Damdred wrote: Its just a few hours till lynch though and instead of pushing your prefered lynch you say you don't like the lynch and you are instead putting attention on myself and rayn. It is counter productive at best with the time left if you are so against the lynch We started talking about me being flaky on the Bara lynch remember? You and rayn might be onto something with him, and I'm certainty not going to defend him when he is not around himself. His lynch could actually be really good, and at this point is probably going to happen. I'm not as convinced that he is scum and have been trying to reconcile a few things. Both Moosy and Sulf seem pretty scummy to me as I've been talking about since I got home from work last night. There's a pretty solid amount of afk players atm which is making it harder to push another wagon. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 26 2015 04:28 Damdred wrote: Come on, you don't do everything your scum read asks you to do. You can't prove to them that they are scum. If you are on the fence about someone and have concerns that's one thing but his scum read looks more like an actual case than trying to figure out if someone is scum Come on, yourself. For him to tell rayn why he's scumreading him explains it to everyone else, too. Optimally, he would have already explained it when he first provided the read, but apparently, a lot of people can't be bothered to do that. There's nothing wrong with trying to convince the Town at large of your case by interacting directly with your target. That's what I've been doing with Rels, right? I'm not trying to get Rels to say "Okay, you're right. That's irrefutable proof that I am scum." I expect the other players to read what I'm saying to him. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On July 26 2015 04:28 Damdred wrote: Come on, you don't do everything your scum read asks you to do. You can't prove to them that they are scum. If you are on the fence about someone and have concerns that's one thing but his scum read looks more like an actual case than trying to figure out if someone is scum It was the quick and dirty of why I dont like/trust rayn right now. I asked you about your read on him for a 2nd opinion, but I'm a tad suspect of you still damdred... I've been clearly trying to decide how strong my scum read on him is, that should not be hard to pick up on from my posts. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On July 25 2015 01:24 MoosyDoosy wrote: Lol you want my honest expectations of ruXxar? I think he's a shit player who can't give reads and who makes shitty arguments like this. He tunnels hard as hell and generates way too much spam for him to be worth as a townie. That's my honest interpretation of ruXxar. HOWEVER even if he's a shit player the least he can do since he signed up is try and participate rather than spam useless poetry. Which is why I've been pulling his teeth and trying to get him to fucking participate although I doubt he's going to provide anything useful anyway. As for your argument LOL. The reason why I'm going to take particular care in looking at your posts is because I hold a grudge over your worthless play in our first newbie game together. That's what I mean when I say I will "suspect you hard". It's not that I think that you're Mafia but that I'm going to make sure that if you are Mafia that I'll catch it and make sure you die. Want me to more brutally honest or does this suffice? I am looking at some of these posts and I want to say these posts that he's going on about ruXxar could come from either alignment. On July 25 2015 01:49 MoosyDoosy wrote: On the other hand since he did sign up to play he should at least do something helpful and TRY to give reads even though he won't give anything useful. This quotes I could see coming from either alignment. If ruXxar and moosy were both scum, it would be him giving an opening to try and dig himself out. If moosy was town and regardless of the alignment of ruxxar it would be him trying to search for more information. However when I see ruxxar's response to moosy "the more you talk the more convinced you are mafia", I also don't see scum teammates trying to push each other on the first day of play, so I'm going to say moosy is probably a town lean. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/490503-newbie-student-mafia-xiii?page=25#497 I also don't understand the case against moosy. I think reading somewhere Breshke complained about some contradiction? Did it sound deliberate? Unless I missed a quote somewhere from Moosy, why can't someone as town complain about how you are playing the game without determining (or being able to determine your alignment) and then use that same complaint to try and get information out of you? Moosy could very well be mafia but I don't think that approach that ruxxar described would be a great reason. Now later on, the one thing I don't like about moosy is that he gets back into thread when ruxxar is past his poetry phrase and he is only criticizing him for just hopping on a wagon, and from this post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/490503-newbie-student-mafia-xiii?page=32#624 is still more or less calling his play bad, so I'm not clear where he draws the line between bad play and mafia play for ruxxar. Hopping on a wagon for no reason is scummy. Then in the next post, he's giving advice, as scum though it goes back to my first post, he probably wouldn't be giving him advice if he was scum, instead looking to take advantage since that would serve a mafia interest. I'm thinking null or a very slight townlean based on the advice but I do want to clarify something. Moosy if you return to the thread, [B]On July 25 2015 09:07 MoosyDoosy wrote: COUGH YOU'RE evaluation about him being more warm? I was the first one to point that out thank you very much. But then again the only thing you can do is hop on wagons so I guess I shouldn't have expected anything else. can you explain why you are implying this is bad and why this wouldn't make him mafia? Metaread? You keep calling him a shitty player but where are you drawing the line between ruxxar the bad player and ruxxar the mafia player. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On July 26 2015 04:30 Tictock wrote: We started talking about me being flaky on the Bara lynch remember? You and rayn might be onto something with him, and I'm certainty not going to defend him when he is not around himself. His lynch could actually be really good, and at this point is probably going to happen. I'm not as convinced that he is scum and have been trying to reconcile a few things. Both Moosy and Sulf seem pretty scummy to me as I've been talking about since I got home from work last night. There's a pretty solid amount of afk players atm which is making it harder to push another wagon. Can you explain what makes moosy worse than barakos? Just finished reading through the two I think the latter is worse as it stands. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 26 2015 04:25 NocturneMage wrote: Barakos's first post - the first post that everyone's sort of gone through, besides it not really having conclusions, it has a "I'm going to wait and see" feel which is scummy. There isn't that search for information that I saw with other posts. Do you mean other posts from him? Or other posts from other players? On July 26 2015 04:25 NocturneMage wrote:And in reading elsewhere, I would think a reaction test would be something like a fakeclaim/blue claim like happened in that game or a sharp read against what the thread is thinking, something that would actually provoke a reaction and shows alignment. Plus he also doesn't really draw alignment conclusions from that test either. Meh. He does draw conclusions from the test. His conclusions are just weak/worthless. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On the second part yeah, but that's basically what I meant by him saying Breshke and whoever else failed the reaction test, as opposed to them failing the reaction test and saying that them not saying things from another game (or however he said it) made it likely that person was mafia. *shrug* | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On July 26 2015 04:37 NocturneMage wrote: Can you explain what makes moosy worse than barakos? Just finished reading through the two I think the latter is worse as it stands. Fine I'll talk more about Bara... Everything people are calling Bara scum for is based on one post and his followup to that post. I didn't think the original reads post was all that bad, some of Bara's thoughts were similar to my own. So it's really just about his follow up to that post in my mind. Calling a reads post like that a reaction test is pretty meh, so I get where people are reading scum from that. However, Bara himself said he was looking to see if anyone from NSM X called him out for opening differently this game. To that extent he followed up his post splendidly, rayn has been pushing Bara for ignoring his vote, but honestly as far as it is evident from his posts Bara didn't even acknowledged the vote, so while it's a bit of a reach it's possible Bara didn't even see that vote. This post also doesn't seem like something scum would do in this situation, and I can't really reconcile that. On July 24 2015 23:06 Barakos wrote: I'll basically repeat, what Damdred and Rels already said, but since it will also answer Damdreds question: There are basically 3 things, that are suspicious about that post: 1) Fluff in the beginning 2) Writing a lot of stuff that doesn't lead to substandial accusations or graspable reads. You can read some scum-leans into some points, but I never really point the finger at someone. 3) It's totally out of line with my townplay from NSM X. I didn't do fluff there and my first post was basically a case on disformation. Rels pointed out all 3 and even found a 4th, where I contradict myself by saying I don't like you making your first post, which could be read as "this is my post for the day, cya" (which it obviously didn't mean, since you are here) and me saying I'll be lurking for a few hours. (A contradiction I honestly don't see, but I can see, how someone could find it ironic). Damdred pointed out 1, so there you go, Damdred... stronger townread for rels. Hope this answers both of your questions. Like he knows he's getting scum read here, so why go through the trouble of making this post? So yea, all that stuff plus the fact that rayn has been on my scum radar makes me reluctant to get onto the Bara wagon. | ||
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Damdred
15669 Posts
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
Like why walk through all the points that your getting scum read for because of one post? As I see it: Town motivation: Trying to answer questions and explain reads Scum motivation: defending one post that everyone is scum reading Which make more sense to motivate that post? | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On July 26 2015 04:11 Tictock wrote: I'm still a bit more interested in lynching Moosy or Sulf over Bara. Both I've discussed, but to elaborate on Sulf. The list post feels really odd to me and if I were to accept it and merge with my own reads would leave only one scum team of Bara/ Moosy/ Noc. While that is a totally possible team I just can't agree with things being that simple so early. Also I have a really hard time understanding why n00b, Damdred, Flex, Dis, and Bre all ended up where they are on those reads. The post about Bara really was weird too and really only makes sense as trying to show he thinks Bara is scummy for his own reasons. Like even if Bara is scum here this looks like a lame attempt to hop on that wagon without just sheeping. My take on Sulfurus To me, he's calling Flexes lock clear town which is just weird and I think someone else also mentinoed why he was ranked above disinformation. The bigger issue is where he gets that when he's ranked two other players (ruxxar and rels) below that when those two have posted a large amount and from what I tell of the filter he doesn't have explanations either way for that. He ranks rayn and Damdred who have posted a lot more too so I am also not clear on where he thinks Rels is less town (according to what he's posted) for example. And disformation. On July 25 2015 08:46 Sulfurus wrote: The mind-meld is between me and rayn FailFish Not to mention I don't know what a mind meld is either...but that's probably irrelevant. Do you Tictock think your case on Sulfurus makes him lynchable over Barakos? Or even any of the points I or others raised? | ||
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