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Sorry, for being away so much, been really busy. Will anser what TT wrote about me now.
On July 17 2015 13:31 Tictock wrote:
Actually, SW you should tell us why you think TJ is scum.
His behavior after vote and his writing sulf as second scum list directly after he was tagged.
On July 17 2015 13:31 Tictock wrote:A quick browse of your one page filter shows me that this is your initial read on TJ Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 08:25 silentwarrior wrote: I also lean town on TJHuggins, since he posted that sulfurus was his second on scum list. This was also before any of the voting began, though after sulfurus posted that super scummy post and was tagged for it by Half the sky. Still a good townlean for me.
Then on D2 when TJ is being pushed by most of the thread you post this. Show nested quote +On July 15 2015 04:35 silentwarrior wrote: Scumlean: scott31337 TJHuggins
Probably scum: GhandiEAGLE You never mentioned TJ in between those 2 posts. What changed your read?
This is just a complete lie. I did mention him again and my change of opinon of him is stated there.
On July 18 2015 01:01 Tictock wrote: SW's D1 play. He comes into the game and in the space of 10 min makes his only reads of the day. He then solo votes based on those reads almost 24 hours later without really commenting on the rest of the game.
At the time I was voting it was not a solovote, which I have also said before.
On July 18 2015 01:01 Tictock wrote: [ Since I replaced in SW has completely ignored me. If he thought NHM was scummy enough to solo vote D1 why is he not even trying to get a read on me? I literally show up twice in SW's filter, once when he posts a list and my slot is suddenly neutral and once when he directly responds to a post from me.
The scummiest thing I had on d1 was NHM strange vote without much further explanation. I then thought GhandiEagle was much more possible scum than others and focused my attention on him.
On July 18 2015 01:01 Tictock wrote: This point me be a little more neutral, but it fits with the "following thread sentiment" notion. SW's biggest post was his case on Ghandi, however his "case" came well after I had been pinging out Ghandi most of the day and HtS posted a large case on Ghandi as well. Check where this post came in terms of thread sentiment against ghandi.
This is also incorrect. I tagged GhandiEagle right after he made that strange comment about scott being town. My big case came later, but I was on to him before you were, and I also said I would analyze him more.
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Oh, also, I wasn't roleblocked (why don't we just let the one who was roleblocked say this?)
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Gonna make a filterdive on TJH now.
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Ok, so here is my analysation of TJH.
On July 11 2015 11:06 TJHuggins wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2015 07:29 Fidei86 wrote:On July 11 2015 07:02 Half the Sky wrote: YAY confirmed town <3 If only posting first did somehow make you confirmed town. That would sure make this game a lot easier So that everyone knows, the only players I know in the game are scott and NHM. I tunnelled scott pretty hard in the game we played together (Holy Guardians) but he was actually town. I null read NHM in HGand he was mafia, then town read him in Himalayas and he was town. I've also chatted a fair bit to HTS, but I don't know how she plays mafia. Yo I have no clue wtf those acronyms mean can u put like Nydushermain (NHM) the first time you use an acronym so I can understand what you're talking about? Who is HTS? On a game note, I think it's pretty good if we all say like what our mafia background 1) I don't know anyone except for nydus and 2) i always judge my reads on people against a background of their experience (e.g. easier to read someone new to mafia based on little things they do). I have played video mafia on DailyMafia for almost two years and have never played forum mafia before. I am basically a god. I am in a clan called the elo angels because im so good and my elo is so high. My day job involves working with and for lawyers every day so i think about thinks pretty logically and might write formally at some points based on my mood. In video mafia I usually pick up on and push on (sometimes minor) logical inconsistencies and ive noticed ive been tunnelling a bit too hard lately so that may happen this game. My only read so far is that Half the Sky is spamming. [purple]Also it allowed if i just put every post I type in purple so taht you guys always know its me?[/purple]
Ok, so the first thing probably anyone noticed with TJH intro post was that he was super arrogant. He calls himself a god, says that he has such a high elo that he is in a clan, and actually wants an unque colour so that we know that it's him. This might now be that indictive of alignment, but was really strange to see on a post first time.
On July 12 2015 01:49 TJHuggins wrote:My initial reads so far is that i am town leaning on Fidei. I like the things he said in relation to spamming, and I think that him relating the perspective to a previous game where he was town feels like he's looking at the game from the perspective of a town. When he responded to HTS regarding talking about anti-spam being easy, he seems genuine. Or maybe it's just because I like his writing. No clue. My initial scum read is Grokken. It's nothing all that strong but I'm getting a wierd feeling about the things he's posted. To me it feels like he is trying to find ways to participate and seem town by chiming in now and again but really has no clue what to write about. Show nested quote +On July 11 2015 09:36 Grokken wrote:On July 11 2015 09:32 GhandiEAGLE wrote: My blood sense is telling me to lynch everyone who knows what theyre doing We should listen to this guy, he seems to know what he is doing. Show nested quote +On July 11 2015 13:27 Grokken wrote:On July 11 2015 10:44 NydusHerMain wrote: Hi, back home. You guys are fucking boring me.
##Vote: Fidei
I don't like the way this guy posts early Can you elaborate on this? What in particular is it that you don't like? I think that one sentence posts that appear to contribute to the game and don't really offer anything just kind of irk me the wrong way. I guess it's worth noting he did write that thing about Dota as well which was also one sentence but that's neither here nor there when it comes to the game I think. When I went back and read the post about him showing off his dota stats that actually reads to me a bit more towny now that I think about it, so not really sure. just an initial read.
So he says his first scumread is grokken. Now, this was just after grokken had a few posts, so there wasn't really that much to go on. He says he gets a weird feeling about him and that he chimes in without helping town. His second quoted post of grokken was simply him wanting to know about NHM, which a lot of people probably found puzzling. Yet he sees this as not contributing, when to me it is the opposite. But later in his post he seems to back of his assesment of him, because of some dota posts grokken made. Most of the time the ones that are insecure enough to back down from a scumread on the same post are mafia, as they always want to seem town but not stir too much up.
On July 12 2015 03:10 TJHuggins wrote: I agree that it was grokken's town prodding question that got me suspicious of him in the first place.
He later states that the town prodding question (with NHM i guess) was the one that made him suspicipus of grokken in the first place. But what was wrong with that really? Wanting a clarification on a vote only helps town.
On July 12 2015 09:57 TJHuggins wrote:I agree with most about what has been said about Moosy. I'm trying to read this game similar to how I would read someone in video mafia (whether or not that is going to work remains to be seen). One way people often get on my "radar" if you will is by dropping sort of key phrases or acting in a certain way after being called out. In my first few months of playing, sometimes this scenario would happen: A particular player, who may be lurking, or just doesn't sound the same (voice tone, pattern, activeness, etc.) would get pinged out by another player who would say that they "feel different this game" or ask "why they're not playing the same as X game they played with them in." In some of these cases, the person would respond back by saying some variation of the phrase "I'm trying to switch up my play this game" or "I'm trying something new this game." I started to realize that when someone came back with this response most of the time they ended up being a mafia trying to cover up for there change in playstyle due to the change in alignment, or sometimes it was just an excuse to lurk e.g. "I'm going to try to sit back and listen and try to get town reads this game instead of trying to pressure the mafia to see how it works." I got a similar feeling looking back at what Moosy said (the quote that many have already noted), though I'll admit I didn't catch it the first time. One thing that I did catch, which I thought was kind of odd, is the quote below, though I'm not quite sure what it means yet. Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 02:27 MoosyDoosy wrote:On July 12 2015 01:49 TJHuggins wrote:My initial reads so far is that i am town leaning on Fidei. I like the things he said in relation to spamming, and I think that him relating the perspective to a previous game where he was town feels like he's looking at the game from the perspective of a town. When he responded to HTS regarding talking about anti-spam being easy, he seems genuine. Or maybe it's just because I like his writing. No clue. My initial scum read is Grokken. It's nothing all that strong but I'm getting a wierd feeling about the things he's posted. To me it feels like he is trying to find ways to participate and seem town by chiming in now and again but really has no clue what to write about. On July 11 2015 09:36 Grokken wrote:On July 11 2015 09:32 GhandiEAGLE wrote: My blood sense is telling me to lynch everyone who knows what theyre doing We should listen to this guy, he seems to know what he is doing. On July 11 2015 13:27 Grokken wrote:On July 11 2015 10:44 NydusHerMain wrote: Hi, back home. You guys are fucking boring me.
##Vote: Fidei
I don't like the way this guy posts early Can you elaborate on this? What in particular is it that you don't like? I think that one sentence posts that appear to contribute to the game and don't really offer anything just kind of irk me the wrong way. I guess it's worth noting he did write that thing about Dota as well which was also one sentence but that's neither here nor there when it comes to the game I think. When I went back and read the post about him showing off his dota stats that actually reads to me a bit more towny now that I think about it, so not really sure. just an initial read. I don't agree with this but let's see what Ghandi says. It's a pretty innocuous post on it's face, but what stood out for me is that he is deferring to Ghandi before making judgment. But Ghandi's role in the context of the quoted posts is so minor that I can't think what he could possibly add to the conversation that would in turn color your judgment on Grokken's alignment. In fact, I never even mentioned Ghandi in my post. If he disagrees, ok, but why is he saying he needs to wait and see what Ghandi says? Not sure if I want to lynch him today, but he's on my radar. I still want to hear more. Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 08:56 Fidei86 wrote: You said about ten posts ago that you were going to be town-hunting at first. Now you're saying that you're scum-hunting. Which is it?? I think you're reaching a bit here. This post seems so opposite to everything else you've written this game. What gives?
He then says this, after some people think MD is scummy for saying that he wants to change his play. Now, simply saying I agree with that point (about it being scummy to change play from town) would have been enough for him there. But he somehow feels the need to say the same thing but repackaging it with video mafia. This seemed quite of weird to me, like he goes out of his way to do this.
On July 12 2015 23:33 TJHuggins wrote:Right now I'm at the point where I feel comfortable enough to ##vote MoosyDoosy. (reasons here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=10#191)I woke up this morning to see more posts from MD that read scum to me. I didn't think you were even allowed to vote for yourself. To me I haven't seen any protown content coming out of any of his posts, and his recent ones seem blatantly anti-town. And what really stands with me is that these are posts from someone who claims to apparently have been unanimously townread by all players but one in some recent previous forum mafia game. See his post on July 11 2015 at 16:30, ("I was an earnest townie last Newbie Student Mafia game with a monster filter. :3 Besides ruXxar everyone pretty much knew I was a townie which is why I want to change things up here and make things interesting.") I'm not buying it that this is a result of you switching up your play.
Now here he states that he didn't even know you could vote for yourself. At this point, most people would go back and look at the rules to see if this was correct or not. In the rules it clearly states that it's not allowed.
On July 13 2015 03:43 TJHuggins wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 03:31 MoosyDoosy wrote:On July 13 2015 02:43 Fidei86 wrote: So I'm sitting here thinking "n00b just made a big case on Moosy, then immediately defended him and now wants to lynch elsewhere - classic scum tell!". But then I thought about it and realised that my approach has been exactly the same. I want Moosy to engage, since everything we have on him at the moment is tonal, and could be bad/lazy town. Bleh. This is not a classic scum tell. It's pretty obvious I'm being a shitty townie so his analysis is pretty on point as usual. I really don't see how you guys think I'm Mafia. XD Can you explain to me how I am supposed to differentiate "shitty townie" play from Mafia play? The way your posts are reading to me now it sounds like you are a mafia resigned to their fate. If that's not the case then what is your play here? Do you have anyone you think is mafia? Anyone that you think is town? Any reasons for those reads? Any reasoning for why you have been writing/acting like a 14 year old for the last 12 hours? I'm going to be seriously upset if you are lynched and flip town because all that I will be thinking is: "What the fuck?"
This is also an interesting post. Here he already states that he would be very upset if MD flipped town. Given the fact how d1 lynch went down and MD is townlean by most players, this post seems like it was written to cushion the fall when MD actually does flip town. Which only mafia would know.
On July 13 2015 06:31 TJHuggins wrote: Figured I would post where I am at before EOD (for obvious reasons). Here's a scum list for me right now in order:
1. MoosyDoosy 2. Sulfuras 3. Grokken
Scott, NHM, and silentwarrior are all in a 3rd category for me which includes players that haven't impressed me with their content and have not left any last impact on me. Might be mafia, might be town. I would rather wait until day 2 to deal with this group since it may give them more time to provide content for me to figure out their alignment. Personally, I'd rather kill someone whos acting scummy than someone whos just a crap shoot (actually if this were video mafia I would pressure them and force them to talk but I can't really do that here.)
If at EOD 2 I still have nothing on those three, I would advocate to shooting, cop checking, lynching them. I would caution against vig shooting or cop checking any of the lurkers this night because I don't think it will really help progress our scum leads much. A vig shot is better saved on a clearly scummy person (same logic as above) and cop check better on someone whos a bit more active.
Ok, this has been said by a lot of people. Just to reiterate, Sulf was placed on as second on TJH scum list right after sulf was tagged. This seems to be a move in case sulf is lynched and he can get some towncred (I admit this got me).
On July 13 2015 07:03 TJHuggins wrote: Wait what... the vote count was changed after the day ended. This is some shitty modding.
So TJH is mad about MD vote on himself not being counted, which is important because it would have meant sulf woulnd't have been lynched. Kind of strange to think that voting on yourself would count though, and he seems really upset about this turn of events.
On July 13 2015 07:15 TJHuggins wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 07:13 Half the Sky wrote:On July 13 2015 07:11 TJHuggins wrote: Wow. Mod-error in town's favor. I'll take it. We pointed that out in page 15. Nothing was changed after the fact. I'd have responded to you but some mods modkill if you post after deadline and as a moderator myself I didn't want to chance that. You pointed that out but none the less his vote was included in the voting thread for quite some time both before and after. I thought that perhaps it was frowned upon but no strictly forbidden. The fact that it was not corrected until after the time in the day ended is unacceptable imo. I feel very strongly about the integrity of games that I am in and it just annoys me when something like this happens.
He goes on to say that this is because he feels strongly about the integrity of the game. But he seemed to have no problem having someone vote for themself, which everyone can easily tell is not part of the game.
On July 13 2015 07:21 TJHuggins wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 07:16 KelsierSC wrote:On July 13 2015 07:14 TJHuggins wrote: I so strongly felt that MD is the most obvious mafia there could possible be... I was going to be so mad if Sulfuras flipped town. Now I'm not so sure since sulfuras was voting on MD. I need to reread Sulfuras posts to see why he was voting on MD. I can give you a hint + Show Spoiler +also please don't criticise mods the way you did, they run games for us and it isn't easy. The mistake was made: that's fine. Everyone makes mistakes. To retroactively correct the mistake after the day ends instead of leaving it as is? Unacceptable from a game integrity standpoint. But we got a mafia; it's whatever. I get passionate about lynches.
Here he states that he actually wanted the mistake to be left as it was. Why? It was incorrect and correcting it led to a lynch of mafia. I think the thing TJH was upset about here was the fact that he thought sulf could be saved and he didn't need to bus him. But since the mistake was corrected after day was over, there was nothing he could do.
On July 13 2015 07:22 TJHuggins wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 07:20 n00bKing wrote:On July 13 2015 07:15 TJHuggins wrote:On July 13 2015 07:13 Half the Sky wrote: We pointed that out in page 15. Nothing was changed after the fact. I'd have responded to you but some mods modkill if you post after deadline and as a moderator myself I didn't want to chance that. You pointed that out but none the less his vote was included in the voting thread for quite some time both before and after. I thought that perhaps it was frowned upon but no strictly forbidden. That's odd that you would think that, considering that this happened, all the way back on Page 13: On July 13 2015 02:00 n00bKing wrote:On July 12 2015 23:33 TJHuggins wrote: I didn't think you were even allowed to vote for yourself. Players may not vote for themselves. So the vote count posted on Page 12 is not completely accurate. My point is the vote remained on the voting thread and was included in the vote counts until a minute or two after the day concluded.
He even states so himself. He wouldn't have been angry if they had fixed it earlier, because then it would have given him the chance to change vote.
On July 16 2015 08:11 TJHuggins wrote: Shit I missed the vote. Sorry guys.
He is then afk for quite a while, and mysteriously pops up just one hour after lynch and posted the above. It almost seems like he dosen't even care about the game anymore, like he feels he has lost. This comes up again:
On July 16 2015 08:30 TJHuggins wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2015 08:23 MoosyDoosy wrote:On July 16 2015 08:16 TJHuggins wrote: Tomorrow. If you die where does that leave us? I would like it if you could post it now for me and HtS to dissect. I may die. But, considering a significant amount of people think that I am mafia (see the three players who voted on me this day), understandably so since I have been very inactive this day, I think it wouldn't be terrible for town if I did die. It will save me from potentially getting mislynched, and keep someone who is much more towny in the game. So I will let the Mafia make the decision.
Here he has the defeatist attitude I was talking about. No effort to try and look town, or even defend himself. Just that he is basically okay with dying. Seeing as how we got scum on d1 lynch and he seemed really upset about it, this could mean he as mafia has given up.
So basically, I think TJH is mafia.
##Vote TJHuggins
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And, TJHuggins decided to vote for me as well without any explanation as well.
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On July 18 2015 08:42 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2015 08:25 silentwarrior wrote: This is just a complete lie. I did mention him again and my change of opinon of him is stated there.
Where? Show me that post, I have looked through your filter and failed to find and mention of TJ between those 2 posts I quoted. Show nested quote +On July 18 2015 01:01 Tictock wrote: This point me be a little more neutral, but it fits with the "following thread sentiment" notion. SW's biggest post was his case on Ghandi, however his "case" came well after I had been pinging out Ghandi most of the day and HtS posted a large case on Ghandi as well. Check where this post came in terms of thread sentiment against ghandi.
This is also incorrect. I tagged GhandiEagle right after he made that strange comment about scott being town. My big case came later, but I was on to him before you were, and I also said I would analyze him more. I saw that post, pretty sure I mentioned it in that case on you as well. I even stated that that point was sorta weak and that was part of why. I'd also like you to give us your thoughts on WP. I know I know, I'm a demanding A-hole.
Here is a link to the first thing: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=20#396
Can look into WP tomorrow more, just did a huge post on TJH. Need to go to bed pretty soon.
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Oh, wow. A lot happened while I was gone. First, really disappointed that you guys actually believed TJH. You didn't find it convenient that the guy who is set to be lynched with the most votes by far is dt and has red check on next likely lynch? And he dosen't claim until it is evident that he will be lynched? Still can't believe you guys did that.
Btw, thx grokken for claiming to save me.
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On July 18 2015 19:36 Fidei86 wrote: Okay, I'm now 100% convinced that SW is the final mafia.
Looking at the evolution of his reads, it's totally bogus. He solo votes on NHM N1. He then town reads TJH for putting Sulfurs second on his scum list, but as discussed, that's actually a massively scummy thing to do. The crucial part, next, is that he does this massive big long post on Ghandi, presumably in order to make sure that town stays on the GE wagon. He doesn't say ANYTHING else about TJH at all. But then, with literally no explanation, he moves TJH down into his 'scum' category, despite TJH having said basically nothing between SW's first read of him as town and then.
I couldn't have solved this game without the following people: HTS - so glad I was town with you. I think if you had rolled scum, it would have been GG. n00b - I won't eff with you I promise Grokken - Bro, you did a nice job as cop, checking exactly the right people and trying to help town without making yourself a target for NK. Props. I'm very impressed. You've got a bright future here. TT - Buddy, what can I say. I'm sorry about the things I said yesterday. You were the first one on the SW wagon, and without you this wouldn't have been possible.
TL;DR If I can see this far, it is because I stand on the shoulders of giants.
All of this has already been stated by TT, and I have already answered all of this.
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On July 18 2015 19:54 Fidei86 wrote: Your answer wasn't sufficient. You said that you had answered it. I assume you're talking about the post where you kick around the argument that TJH was actually seriously scummy for what he posted re Sulfurus, but you hardly reached a conclusion. It reads to me, with the knowledge we have now, that you were caught trying to back your mafia buddy and didn't want to bus him but also wanted to distance yourself from him.
Have no good answer for that, and could have easily been that. All I can say is that I didn't understand the tactic TJH used. What I did after sulfurus flipped mafia was go trough the whole thread and see who said anything negative about him before he was lynched. I figured anyone that said anything bad would probably not be mafia. These were Grokken and TJH, and I wrote as much after d1 lynch. I did however also write that TJH wrote about sulfurus after sulf was tagged, which diminishes the town cred he gets for it.
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On July 18 2015 20:05 Fidei86 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2015 19:45 silentwarrior wrote: Oh, wow. A lot happened while I was gone. First, really disappointed that you guys actually believed TJH. You didn't find it convenient that the guy who is set to be lynched with the most votes by far is dt and has red check on next likely lynch? And he dosen't claim until it is evident that he will be lynched? Still can't believe you guys did that.
Btw, thx grokken for claiming to save me. Okay, I just can't restrain myself from making this post, because it's such a gimme: 1. This post is a total distortion of what happened. Nobody straight up believed TJH's claim. Lots of people (TT, for example) said that the claim was bullshit straight off. HOWEVER, if you don't have the necessary counter-claims, the correct play from town is to lynch the red check 100%. If the red check is off, you then lynch the false-cop. But you always lynch the target first, because then you don't run the risk of accidentally lynching your cop. 2. Nowhere in this post does SW express any actual claim to town. He berates town for believing TJH's claim, and he says thanks to Grokken, but he doesn't actually try and move the agenda forward or even hint that he might be town. 3. He's riled. Mafia get riled when they are close to being caught. They just can't help it. I've seen it time and time again, in real life mafia and in forum mafia. 4. Specifically, this is the first time that we've seen SW post this directly. Everything else has been pretty bland, but this has real fire to it.
1. So what, Im supposed to roll over and just accept that a mafia is trying to lynch me? The reasons for my dissappointment is that you all believed a mafia claiming he was dt and acusing me of red.
2. Ok, so apparently fidei is so stupid that he dosen't realise that mafia can also write "I am town", and me writing it means nothing. But just so that this can also be answered, I AM TOWN!!!!
3. I got riled because a mafia claimed dt and said i was red, and the whole town seemed to believe him and switched their vote to me.
4. Fire how? You mean emotional? Because this is a game of logic, and emotions shouldn't be used, logic should. That way bland is better than fire.
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On July 18 2015 20:26 Fidei86 wrote: I mean, it probably doesn't need to be said again, but I might as well:
I don't think anyone came out and said they straight up believed TJH's claim. Lots of people displayed skepticism. N00b said that he wouldn't have moved his vote anyway. HOWEVER, as I explained above, good town players should absolutely move their votes onto the cop claimer's red check, as you get the same amount of information as you would if you lynched the cop, but without running the risk of actually lynching the cop. The situation obviously then changes if you get a counter-claim. Here we have a very believable counter-claim coming from Grokken, who plenty of people have been reading as town.
Also, everyone is going to move to TJH if they haven't already - we know that HTS is offline and she'll switch 100% when she gets back. So there was no need for you to be angry at all. The fact that you are/were is a massive scum tell, in my opinion.
Please don't take this personally - I know that Mafia is a game of lying. Next time maybe you'll roll town, and you can put everything you've learned from being Mafia this game towards being a good town next game.
Yes, I get that it would be better for town. But knowing about it makes you kind of emotional, and since I knew I was town and he was mafia, it became kind of emotional.
Didn't really get angry, just kind of disappointed. As I said, when you are the one being targetted for a fake dt claim, you would be.
Don't really take it personally, know you are trying to find scum just like me. But please try to have less of a tunnel vision. You said I was 100% mafia, to the point were you actually made after game comments, before I had even reacted to any of it.
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Btw, who got roleblocked? Was it scott or wonnaplay?
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What were the night actions?
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