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Day 2 Vote Count
GhandiEAGLE(4): Grokken, Fidei86, Half the Sky, silentwarrior
TJHuggins(4): Ticktock, Noobking, MoosyDoosy, WonnaPlay
Grokken(1): GhandiEAGLE
Not Voting(2): scott31337, TJHuggins
Reminder Voting is done here.
It is mandatory to vote. Not doing so will result in a warning a second non vote will result in a modkill and action taken against you in the Mafia ban thread.
Currently GhandiEAGLE is set to be lynched with 4 votes.
Day 1 ends in
PLEASE REMEMBER THAT IT IS MANDATORY TO VOTE.
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Eh, Ghandi isn't even defending himself. XD
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Work is destroying me again, if I'm lucky I'll finish up again around 2200. >_<
I will put aside some time in about 2 hours when I step away for food.
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I've been really busy as well, but I can't forget to vote this time...We don't need any modkilled townies.
##Vote Tjhuggins
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On July 16 2015 00:25 scott31337 wrote:
I've been really busy as well, but I can't forget to vote this time...We don't need any modkilled townies.
##Vote Tjhuggins
Can you sum up where you stand on people in general this game? I don't need a big case or wall of text, even a list post, exclusive scumreads only, or something so we know where you stand.
Or even in one line why you think TJH is the best lynch.
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Actually you are effectively hammering him (even if he tries to save himself and ties it up again), so if anyone owes an explanation of their vote, it's you Scott.
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On July 16 2015 00:25 scott31337 wrote:
##Vote Tjhuggins
Excellent. And now...we wait. *rubs hands together*
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Not complaining about the pressure votes on TJH.
But Scott coming in without a previously stated stance on TJH is a bit interesting and if we're wrong on TJH, could point to the Scott/GE world that SW and (I think??) Grokken were discussing earlier given that I'm confident the rest of the wagon is green.
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Silentwarrior,
On July 15 2015 11:52 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2015 08:55 silentwarrior wrote:On July 15 2015 08:41 Half the Sky wrote:On July 15 2015 08:37 n00bKing wrote:
I don't think it's that big of a red flag. Sulfurus offered very little to take a stance on. I could see a new player looking at Sulfurus' filter and thinking "there is nothing here to work with." This is a decent point. He was a solo voter and having done too many VCAs to count I might be a little biased since he solo voted, but newbies probably don't have the concept of town consolidation down either, at least not yet. I didn't solo vote at the time i voted, noobking changed his vote. But I don't understand, what so bad with solovoting? The issue with solo voting is that it makes it harder to look at vote counts after a flip. Ideally you want 2 solid wagons so that when you hit on scum you can start to figuer out which players on the opposing wagon are likely scum and which, if any, are scum bussing a teammate. I'm pretty guilty of throwing my vote out solo in past newbie games, so I understand the temptation to ignore the majority and vote for your own reads. However if you think about it all it really does it make it easier for scum to swing the votes in their favor. Maybe HtS can answer a little better, also I'm sure there is someplace on the interwebs that has in depth talk about what is good for voteing patterns as town. My counter question to get you thinking about it more, what do you think could be good about solovoting?
Solovoting is an issue with closely contested wagons. You're removing yourself from the main wagons - there are a few legit reasons to solo vote but I'll allow you to see if you can sort that out.
Basically I'll explain town consolidation. Tic alluded to it but town need to consolidate at EoD so that scum cannot take advantage of a split up town. The other thing is accountability - if vote counts for multiple (like 4 or more) wagons (let's say you have 3-4 wagons roughtly with the same number of votes) are relatively equal then there's no accountability and town cannot analyse and scum can hide anywhere. In veteran games you'll see multiple scumreads and then town will assemble on where they think the lynch goes. So here in terms of vote splitting the other problem with solo voting is that you would appear (if you have no good reason) to remove yourself from being accountable on a larger wagon. You'll often hear that scum hide solo or off the main wagons.
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Voting_patterns
I took your vote in the context of your overall play and it seemed that in addition to what you said you just didn't even consider Sulfurus though Tic (or was it noob? one of them) qualified it might not have been much to work with, then the same could be argued for NHM, sparse yet suspicious.
Now this is a newbie game, so I am trying to keep that in mind. But hopefully this makes a little more sense why I'm viewing your play the way I am.
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On July 15 2015 11:57 Tictock wrote:
I overall agree with your post here (as with most of your posts this game) HtS. However I'm wondering if you could explain what you mean by percentage play here.
It could mean two things depending on whether you are talking about mechanics or behaviours.
Here I'm talking about behaviours. There are many ways to scumhunt - read progression, reads in the context of the thread, thread sentiment, VCA, tone, meta, types of pushes, etc. For the more methods you are having able to connect someone as scumlike, it's more likely they are scum.
For mechanics percentage play, it is very hard to explain so I'll give you an example.
Say Sulfurus flipped scum vanilla. KSC is NKed. There is a GF remaining and 9 townies remaining. Say one of those townies is a DT.
The DT can green check 10 of the remaining 11. If he greenchecks N2, there's a 90% chance the player he checked is town. Percentage play would dictate you do NOT lynch that greenchecked player UNLESS you have qualitative explanation (behaviour) to explain why that person is scum in which case he MUST be the godfather. Therefore the reason to lynch a greenchecked player must be very strong.
(Recent example: Bunnies in NSM10 was a greenchecked godfather who was lynched. She was scum because her reads never changed when the players' behaviours did.)
(Yes there's a role called mafia framer btw, but that's outside the scope of this game.)
I'm really bad at articulating things sometimes but I hope this makes sense.
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On July 15 2015 11:52 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2015 08:55 silentwarrior wrote:On July 15 2015 08:41 Half the Sky wrote:On July 15 2015 08:37 n00bKing wrote:
I don't think it's that big of a red flag. Sulfurus offered very little to take a stance on. I could see a new player looking at Sulfurus' filter and thinking "there is nothing here to work with." This is a decent point. He was a solo voter and having done too many VCAs to count I might be a little biased since he solo voted, but newbies probably don't have the concept of town consolidation down either, at least not yet. I didn't solo vote at the time i voted, noobking changed his vote. But I don't understand, what so bad with solovoting? The issue with solo voting is that it makes it harder to look at vote counts after a flip. Ideally you want 2 solid wagons so that when you hit on scum you can start to figuer out which players on the opposing wagon are likely scum and which, if any, are scum bussing a teammate. I'm pretty guilty of throwing my vote out solo in past newbie games, so I understand the temptation to ignore the majority and vote for your own reads. However if you think about it all it really does it make it easier for scum to swing the votes in their favor. Maybe HtS can answer a little better, also I'm sure there is someplace on the interwebs that has in depth talk about what is good for voteing patterns as town. My counter question to get you thinking about it more, what do you think could be good about solovoting?
See your point, the more the townies vote solo, the more mafia can swing lynches in their favor. But I think solovoting can be good if you really think that your read is correct and the others are wrong. Also could put some pressure on the person if you show that you are after him even when rest of town aren't.
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On July 16 2015 00:25 scott31337 wrote:
I've been really busy as well, but I can't forget to vote this time...We don't need any modkilled townies.
##Vote Tjhuggins
Care to explain that at all or are you just trying to save your scum-buddy ghandi?
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Pretty sad that there has been such little posting since I went to bed.
Like HtS pointed out I'm not happy that Scott posted this
On July 15 2015 07:18 scott31337 wrote:Yayy I'm dead in the other game so I can concentrate on this one now - I'll do some buttkicking tonight after house cleaning. 
Only to follow up with a no explanation vote on TJ... That definitely is worthy of a scum read right there. Still think I'd rather deal with Scott tomorrow since there are more active scummy looking players right now.
Also TJ has effectively disappeared from the game...
This has got to be the lowest activity game I've seen, It's kinda sickening.
I would really like to hear from TJ before EoD, but I'm equally tempted to swing the hammer back over to GE atm... Still the way GE has semi-defended TJ and tried to shift votes away from him all day has me fairly certain they are the scum team so I don't really care which gets lynched atm.
Also thanks for trying to explain there HtS, not sure I fully get it after one read though. I think I get the general idea so I'll just mull it over a little and see if it doesn't make more sense to me later on.
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I am happy that we have almost everyone voting today, and that we are pretty much all consolidated on 2 wagons.
Will make for some great VCA later on.
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Welp less than 4 hours to go.
I feel like things are boreing atm.
Lets make them less boring.
##Unvote
##Vote: scott31337
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On July 15 2015 23:25 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Eh, Ghandi isn't even defending himself. XD
Not totally true. I've responded to the points against me that aren't valid. The issue is that the entire case against me is really that I'm a bad player in general, not that my play has been particularly scummy. That's just an appeal to my inexperience though, and generally isn't well-received as an argument. So I figured the best thing to do would be to go and carry on as though I wasn't a suspect and find an actual scummer; the town tunnel-visioning me is bad since I don't want them to lynch a townie.
Unfortunately that attempt was also called a blatant attempt at "reaching" for a lynch. Additionally I can't vote for TJ Huggins until it's clear that it's what everyone has decided, otherwise it will be perceived as me trying to get on the horse and save my own skin, which would be perceived as a scummy play. So my attempts to help the town are mostly ignored, and my attempts t o defend myself will likely only worsen both my situation and the town's situation.
That's why I'm largely keeping quiet, to stop town from constantly posting about me and start posting about scum. Unfortunately everyone is hitting TJ Huggins right now, which while not a bad lynch, should only be considered at the end of the day after we've investigated people that can actually defend themselves. I'm just saying, don't waste the entire day agreeing to lynch someone that's not present; only do it if you don't find somebody else first.
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^ So you're saying you picked Grokken just because you couldn't pick anyone else to make an argument around? If that's the case, we can basically discount your whole post on him right?
If you want to make a post on TJHuggins and if you think that he is Mafia then feel free to do so. Don't let anything stop you. Mayhaps you'll draw attention to a detail that no one else would have noticed which will make everyone switch votes.
I also dislike how you're thinking about how others will perceive you as town or not. If you're town there's really no need to worry about that since it WILL show in your actions especially if you post a ton.
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I wouldn't have posted about Grokken if he wasn't the scummiest person on my list. Don't spin it as "just because I couldn't pick anyone else". There's nothing that I said that should make you discount the argument. I'm keeping my vote there for a reason.
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On July 16 2015 04:17 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
I wouldn't have posted about Grokken if he wasn't the scummiest person on my list. Don't spin it as "just because I couldn't pick anyone else". There's nothing that I said that should make you discount the argument. I'm keeping my vote there for a reason.
What I disliked about that post was how you did everything that you criticized Grokken for.
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EPT
