On June 11 2015 04:07 boxerfred wrote: Here you explain it. First sentence: what makes you so sure that NaCl's claim is a true one? That is a slight TMI call to me. You hide it nicely, talking about setup speculation which at this point is likely to keep everyone busy. However while you strongly doubt Artanis' claim, you don't put a second thought onto NaCl's claim being a fake one. Why not? Why are you so sure that his claim is real? Does it make that much sense for a Doctor to claim D1, even if Artanis' claim was fake for real (which is something that salty could not know). You're experienced, why didn't you identify that CC just as a play to test the waters (hell even I did that)?
Next you say, "the situation is the following". Holy hell it's D1 and you cannot possibly know what drives people to do what they do. Yet you construct a theory that is terribly wrong. Next bolded part: "Artanis had weak scum games in the past. Now he's pulling an absolutely sick move!" How does that make sense? Like: "meta says Artanis sucks as scum but I'm sure he's rocking it this time!"
This whole part makes no fucking sense with how boxerfred played day1. It does not compute.
Yeah feels like I did what I said I'd do: post not so often but put more effort in my posts and think things out. Keep on not answering. You're my top vote by now.
I don't care in the slightest. I am never getting lynched this game. You on the other hand just volunteered to be hanged day3.
On June 11 2015 04:07 boxerfred wrote: Here you explain it. First sentence: what makes you so sure that NaCl's claim is a true one? That is a slight TMI call to me. You hide it nicely, talking about setup speculation which at this point is likely to keep everyone busy. However while you strongly doubt Artanis' claim, you don't put a second thought onto NaCl's claim being a fake one. Why not? Why are you so sure that his claim is real? Does it make that much sense for a Doctor to claim D1, even if Artanis' claim was fake for real (which is something that salty could not know). You're experienced, why didn't you identify that CC just as a play to test the waters (hell even I did that)?
Next you say, "the situation is the following". Holy hell it's D1 and you cannot possibly know what drives people to do what they do. Yet you construct a theory that is terribly wrong. Next bolded part: "Artanis had weak scum games in the past. Now he's pulling an absolutely sick move!" How does that make sense? Like: "meta says Artanis sucks as scum but I'm sure he's rocking it this time!"
This whole part makes no fucking sense with how boxerfred played day1. It does not compute.
Yeah feels like I did what I said I'd do: post not so often but put more effort in my posts and think things out. Keep on not answering. You're my top vote by now.
I don't care in the slightest. I am never getting lynched this game. You on the other hand just volunteered to be hanged day3.
Cool so people can lynch you when I flip VT
I am sorry to disappoint you but that is not how this works
On June 11 2015 04:07 boxerfred wrote: Here you explain it. First sentence: what makes you so sure that NaCl's claim is a true one? That is a slight TMI call to me. You hide it nicely, talking about setup speculation which at this point is likely to keep everyone busy. However while you strongly doubt Artanis' claim, you don't put a second thought onto NaCl's claim being a fake one. Why not? Why are you so sure that his claim is real? Does it make that much sense for a Doctor to claim D1, even if Artanis' claim was fake for real (which is something that salty could not know). You're experienced, why didn't you identify that CC just as a play to test the waters (hell even I did that)?
Next you say, "the situation is the following". Holy hell it's D1 and you cannot possibly know what drives people to do what they do. Yet you construct a theory that is terribly wrong. Next bolded part: "Artanis had weak scum games in the past. Now he's pulling an absolutely sick move!" How does that make sense? Like: "meta says Artanis sucks as scum but I'm sure he's rocking it this time!"
This whole part makes no fucking sense with how boxerfred played day1. It does not compute.
Yeah feels like I did what I said I'd do: post not so often but put more effort in my posts and think things out. Keep on not answering. You're my top vote by now.
I don't care in the slightest. I am never getting lynched this game. You on the other hand just volunteered to be hanged day3.
Cool so people can lynch you when I flip VT
I am sorry to disappoint you but that is not how this works
On June 11 2015 04:14 justanothertownie wrote: That boxerfred post is so remarkably shit that I consider lynching him over fuba.
You're quite a joy to play with.
Not that I think I'm any better to play with, mind you, but for different reasons.
Not sure how to respond to what's been said about me. I have absolutely no idea what chez was doing at all, because it definitely seemed to me as though he was saying that when he flipped, marv would be in trouble. That, along with the comment about millers, made me think he was claiming something (specifically cop). His play that day seemed to be from the perspective of a cop who had a red check on marv. I have a lot of trouble understanding how no one else at least caught glimpses of this.
Actually, didn't someone say something about chez and mad hatters? Like "cut it out with this mad hatter shit" or something? Thought it was prplhz, but I didn't see it in his filter.
Oh, it was mig. So at least one other person saw some sort of claim in chez's play. Guess that means I'm not completely insane.
Well, the hatter thing was obviously because of the vid he posted where he said if he dies marv will also die. However there was no indication whatsoever that chez could be cop ever.
And my thought was that he simply went a step farther. Once chez dies as cop, we will see that he was cop, and lend more proof to his read on marv. Obviously I was incorrect, but the fact that no one else even saw it as a possibility really confuses me. In any case, I still don't see how it makes me scum. Like, I'm having trouble seeing my play this game from a scum perspective. Am I more likely to think chez is cop if I'm scum? Am I more likely to even lightly defend BF as scum (though that is a read I'll have to reexamine going into D3)? And given that everyone considers my reasons for reads to be shitty, why wouldn't I just make a shitty fake scumread on someone?
Oh, and while I'm thinking about it, I didn't just take artanis's claim at face value. I thought about it for quite a while. So the only "absolute" thing I've said was about chez. And I still have trouble seeing why he would say/do those things as a VT.
Yes, yes you are more likely to believe people who you know are town are a role and it is also more likely that you defend them.
Explain to me why chez as cop would let himself be lynched when he has a redcheck on marv instead of saying that he has a goddamn redcheck and pushing for a marv lynch.
My thought was that trading a blue for a red would be a good thing. Why he wouldn't just say it is because he's chez. Why did he make a creepy deathnote video rather than just typing in the thread? Because he's chez. Why does he speak in riddles and keep talking about "themes" (whatever that means)? Because he's chez.
I haven't done a thorough analysis of chez's play, but his behavior made sense in the way I've described it based on my rudimentary understanding of him.
As for the first part of your response, that doesn't make sense. So I'm more likely to falsely believe someone is a blue role simply because I know they're town? And if I defend every townie because I know they're town, then how do I get any of them lynched? That's bullshit. And you skipped the last bit. If my reads are so flimsy and based on nonsense, then why don't I fake any scumreads? I could just be like, "I think mig is scum, his reads seem so fake", and that would be at least consistent. The answer is: because I'm being honest, and I'm town.
On June 11 2015 04:14 justanothertownie wrote: That boxerfred post is so remarkably shit that I consider lynching him over fuba.
You're quite a joy to play with.
Not that I think I'm any better to play with, mind you, but for different reasons.
Not sure how to respond to what's been said about me. I have absolutely no idea what chez was doing at all, because it definitely seemed to me as though he was saying that when he flipped, marv would be in trouble. That, along with the comment about millers, made me think he was claiming something (specifically cop). His play that day seemed to be from the perspective of a cop who had a red check on marv. I have a lot of trouble understanding how no one else at least caught glimpses of this.
Actually, didn't someone say something about chez and mad hatters? Like "cut it out with this mad hatter shit" or something? Thought it was prplhz, but I didn't see it in his filter.
Oh, it was mig. So at least one other person saw some sort of claim in chez's play. Guess that means I'm not completely insane.
Well, the hatter thing was obviously because of the vid he posted where he said if he dies marv will also die. However there was no indication whatsoever that chez could be cop ever.
And my thought was that he simply went a step farther. Once chez dies as cop, we will see that he was cop, and lend more proof to his read on marv. Obviously I was incorrect, but the fact that no one else even saw it as a possibility really confuses me. In any case, I still don't see how it makes me scum. Like, I'm having trouble seeing my play this game from a scum perspective. Am I more likely to think chez is cop if I'm scum? Am I more likely to even lightly defend BF as scum (though that is a read I'll have to reexamine going into D3)? And given that everyone considers my reasons for reads to be shitty, why wouldn't I just make a shitty fake scumread on someone?
Oh, and while I'm thinking about it, I didn't just take artanis's claim at face value. I thought about it for quite a while. So the only "absolute" thing I've said was about chez. And I still have trouble seeing why he would say/do those things as a VT.
Yes, yes you are more likely to believe people who you know are town are a role and it is also more likely that you defend them.
Explain to me why chez as cop would let himself be lynched when he has a redcheck on marv instead of saying that he has a goddamn redcheck and pushing for a marv lynch.
My thought was that trading a blue for a red would be a good thing. Why he wouldn't just say it is because he's chez. Why did he make a creepy deathnote video rather than just typing in the thread? Because he's chez. Why does he speak in riddles and keep talking about "themes" (whatever that means)? Because he's chez.
I haven't done a thorough analysis of chez's play, but his behavior made sense in the way I've described it based on my rudimentary understanding of him.
As for the first part of your response, that doesn't make sense. So I'm more likely to falsely believe someone is a blue role simply because I know they're town? And if I defend every townie because I know they're town, then how do I get any of them lynched? That's bullshit. And you skipped the last bit. If my reads are so flimsy and based on nonsense, then why don't I fake any scumreads? I could just be like, "I think mig is scum, his reads seem so fake", and that would be at least consistent. The answer is: because I'm being honest, and I'm town.
Because you don't "fake" reads as scum. You call them town because you know they are and you have a way easier time believing someone is blue instead of read when you know that he is not mafia. How can you even contest that?
And even if it is chez he still plays to win and if he had a redcheck he would not keep it to himself the whole day and then get lynched without claiming. No way chez would waste the opportunity to troll around with a redcheck during the day either.
On June 11 2015 04:07 boxerfred wrote: Here you explain it. First sentence: what makes you so sure that NaCl's claim is a true one? That is a slight TMI call to me. You hide it nicely, talking about setup speculation which at this point is likely to keep everyone busy. However while you strongly doubt Artanis' claim, you don't put a second thought onto NaCl's claim being a fake one. Why not? Why are you so sure that his claim is real? Does it make that much sense for a Doctor to claim D1, even if Artanis' claim was fake for real (which is something that salty could not know). You're experienced, why didn't you identify that CC just as a play to test the waters (hell even I did that)?
Next you say, "the situation is the following". Holy hell it's D1 and you cannot possibly know what drives people to do what they do. Yet you construct a theory that is terribly wrong. Next bolded part: "Artanis had weak scum games in the past. Now he's pulling an absolutely sick move!" How does that make sense? Like: "meta says Artanis sucks as scum but I'm sure he's rocking it this time!"
This whole part makes no fucking sense with how boxerfred played day1. It does not compute.
Yeah feels like I did what I said I'd do: post not so often but put more effort in my posts and think things out. Keep on not answering. You're my top vote by now.
I don't care in the slightest. I am never getting lynched this game. You on the other hand just volunteered to be hanged day3.
Cool so people can lynch you when I flip VT
I am sorry to disappoint you but that is not how this works
No you're not
You got me - I am not. But if you get lynched and happen to be incredibly wrong town instead of scum then I will never get lynched for that.
On June 11 2015 04:07 boxerfred wrote: Here you explain it. First sentence: what makes you so sure that NaCl's claim is a true one? That is a slight TMI call to me. You hide it nicely, talking about setup speculation which at this point is likely to keep everyone busy. However while you strongly doubt Artanis' claim, you don't put a second thought onto NaCl's claim being a fake one. Why not? Why are you so sure that his claim is real? Does it make that much sense for a Doctor to claim D1, even if Artanis' claim was fake for real (which is something that salty could not know). You're experienced, why didn't you identify that CC just as a play to test the waters (hell even I did that)?
Next you say, "the situation is the following". Holy hell it's D1 and you cannot possibly know what drives people to do what they do. Yet you construct a theory that is terribly wrong. Next bolded part: "Artanis had weak scum games in the past. Now he's pulling an absolutely sick move!" How does that make sense? Like: "meta says Artanis sucks as scum but I'm sure he's rocking it this time!"
This whole part makes no fucking sense with how boxerfred played day1. It does not compute.
Yeah feels like I did what I said I'd do: post not so often but put more effort in my posts and think things out. Keep on not answering. You're my top vote by now.
I don't care in the slightest. I am never getting lynched this game. You on the other hand just volunteered to be hanged day3.
Cool so people can lynch you when I flip VT
I am sorry to disappoint you but that is not how this works
No you're not
You got me - I am not. But if you get lynched and happen to be incredibly wrong town instead of scum then I will never get lynched for that.
If you turn out to be scum after the game I'll make you all remember that moment
On June 11 2015 04:07 boxerfred wrote: Here you explain it. First sentence: what makes you so sure that NaCl's claim is a true one? That is a slight TMI call to me. You hide it nicely, talking about setup speculation which at this point is likely to keep everyone busy. However while you strongly doubt Artanis' claim, you don't put a second thought onto NaCl's claim being a fake one. Why not? Why are you so sure that his claim is real? Does it make that much sense for a Doctor to claim D1, even if Artanis' claim was fake for real (which is something that salty could not know). You're experienced, why didn't you identify that CC just as a play to test the waters (hell even I did that)?
Next you say, "the situation is the following". Holy hell it's D1 and you cannot possibly know what drives people to do what they do. Yet you construct a theory that is terribly wrong. Next bolded part: "Artanis had weak scum games in the past. Now he's pulling an absolutely sick move!" How does that make sense? Like: "meta says Artanis sucks as scum but I'm sure he's rocking it this time!"
This whole part makes no fucking sense with how boxerfred played day1. It does not compute.
Yeah feels like I did what I said I'd do: post not so often but put more effort in my posts and think things out. Keep on not answering. You're my top vote by now.
I don't care in the slightest. I am never getting lynched this game. You on the other hand just volunteered to be hanged day3.
Cool so people can lynch you when I flip VT
I am sorry to disappoint you but that is not how this works
No you're not
You got me - I am not. But if you get lynched and happen to be incredibly wrong town instead of scum then I will never get lynched for that.
If you turn out to be scum after the game I'll make you all remember that moment
well if not you'll make me remember I guess
If you are town you will remember it yourself. There is no need for me to show you your failure afterwards.
On June 11 2015 04:14 justanothertownie wrote: That boxerfred post is so remarkably shit that I consider lynching him over fuba.
You're quite a joy to play with.
Not that I think I'm any better to play with, mind you, but for different reasons.
Not sure how to respond to what's been said about me. I have absolutely no idea what chez was doing at all, because it definitely seemed to me as though he was saying that when he flipped, marv would be in trouble. That, along with the comment about millers, made me think he was claiming something (specifically cop). His play that day seemed to be from the perspective of a cop who had a red check on marv. I have a lot of trouble understanding how no one else at least caught glimpses of this.
Actually, didn't someone say something about chez and mad hatters? Like "cut it out with this mad hatter shit" or something? Thought it was prplhz, but I didn't see it in his filter.
Oh, it was mig. So at least one other person saw some sort of claim in chez's play. Guess that means I'm not completely insane.
Well, the hatter thing was obviously because of the vid he posted where he said if he dies marv will also die. However there was no indication whatsoever that chez could be cop ever.
And my thought was that he simply went a step farther. Once chez dies as cop, we will see that he was cop, and lend more proof to his read on marv. Obviously I was incorrect, but the fact that no one else even saw it as a possibility really confuses me. In any case, I still don't see how it makes me scum. Like, I'm having trouble seeing my play this game from a scum perspective. Am I more likely to think chez is cop if I'm scum? Am I more likely to even lightly defend BF as scum (though that is a read I'll have to reexamine going into D3)? And given that everyone considers my reasons for reads to be shitty, why wouldn't I just make a shitty fake scumread on someone?
Oh, and while I'm thinking about it, I didn't just take artanis's claim at face value. I thought about it for quite a while. So the only "absolute" thing I've said was about chez. And I still have trouble seeing why he would say/do those things as a VT.
Yes, yes you are more likely to believe people who you know are town are a role and it is also more likely that you defend them.
Explain to me why chez as cop would let himself be lynched when he has a redcheck on marv instead of saying that he has a goddamn redcheck and pushing for a marv lynch.
My thought was that trading a blue for a red would be a good thing. Why he wouldn't just say it is because he's chez. Why did he make a creepy deathnote video rather than just typing in the thread? Because he's chez. Why does he speak in riddles and keep talking about "themes" (whatever that means)? Because he's chez.
I haven't done a thorough analysis of chez's play, but his behavior made sense in the way I've described it based on my rudimentary understanding of him.
As for the first part of your response, that doesn't make sense. So I'm more likely to falsely believe someone is a blue role simply because I know they're town? And if I defend every townie because I know they're town, then how do I get any of them lynched? That's bullshit. And you skipped the last bit. If my reads are so flimsy and based on nonsense, then why don't I fake any scumreads? I could just be like, "I think mig is scum, his reads seem so fake", and that would be at least consistent. The answer is: because I'm being honest, and I'm town.
1)Because you don't "fake" reads as scum. You call them town because you know they are and 2)you have a way easier time believing someone is blue instead of read when you know that he is not mafia. How can you even contest that?
And even if it is chez he still plays to win and if he had a redcheck he would not keep it to himself the whole day and then get lynched without claiming. 3)No way chez would waste the opportunity to troll around with a redcheck during the day either.
1) It's possible I don't know how to play scum, then. I mean, you have to fake reads at some point, or you just end up with town reads on town, and scum reads on scum o.O
2) I think I understand where my confusion was. I thought your argument was that I was somehow more likely to see chez as blue than green, rather than more likely to see him as blue than red. That made no sense to me. I can see your reasoning now, and while I think I can see the merit in it, there must be some flaw, as you've come to the wrong conclusion about me.
3) That's precisely what I'm saying I thought he was doing all day.
I know I made a lot of posts on Fuba being mafia and honestly he probably still is mafia! There is now someone else that I have a greater passion for lynching. Boxerfred.
This is because of quite a few reasons and all of them are backed up simply by reading the game so I'll make this short and quoteless due to a lack of time. Day 1: Boxerfred's play can be summarised on day 1 as simply going from clueless and spreading feelers in directions (such as on yamato briefly etc) to full on try hard and associative based on Yamato77 flipping mafia before he actually has (most damning). He also says Justanothertownie is his top town read going into night 1 for his reaction to the Artanis[Xp] situation etc. I feel like this was a disingenuous flip of "ability" to read people that simply didn't fit with his earlier playstyle. It conveniently kicked in when it was decided Yamato77 was the lynch anyway. Day 2: Boxerfred meekly pushes VayneAuthority and is quite happy to use any excuse whatsoever to just disappear from it when provided with little evidence:
On June 09 2015 19:21 marvellosity wrote: the *point* is that you made the point about Chez *because* I questioned you on Vayne, so you turned it around to people talking or backing off Chez
one caused the other
No. I did not make a point. I simply wrote about a fucking filter observation not coming to any conclusion or point. I came to that conclusion when you asked your questions 2 minutes ago. stop reading stuff into my posts that is not there.
You made the fucking point to deflect off me questioning you on Vayne
I don't see any reason to unvote someone who is not replying to pressure. Like, you all went on the Chez train because "oh he's not here" and now that he's here you start saying "nah he doesn't look so scummy anyways". I might do the same depending on his replies but as long as there are no replies, well why should I change my stance?
"why would I unvote Vayne? Here! Look at what you guys are doing with Chez!"
that was precisely your defence here.
What the fuck. So I explained thoroughly why I am voting Vayne. Of course I am showing what you guys are doing on Chez since I feel like noone even cares to look at my points on Vayne. Did you even check my points on Vayne by now? No? Cool shit.
I distinctly remember telling you that VA doing jackshit does not make him scum and that he tends to not give a fuck as town.
I distinctly remember that I played one game of Mafia thus far here and can't tell if you're right.
Yes, it's a quote. I lied earlier. He then jumps on Chezinu because it was what everyone else was doing. Suddenly, Boxerfred makes a big case on Justanothertownie being mafia which contained all of the posts that Boxerfred said made Justanothertownie his top town on day 1. Note earlier when he dropped his VayneAuthority read based on people giving evidence to the opposite? Now this is not the case for Justanothertownie.
Unfortunately I can't finish this due to time, will continue later.
On June 05 2015 14:39 boxerfred wrote: Hello, people
Sick case already, looking forward to the answers!
lol?
lol.
##Vote: boxerfred
You have the best filter EU. Your first participation in this game actually is "lol? lol. vote". Would you mind to explain why you're voting me? Would you mind to explain why of all posts (and cases) that were put out thus far you choose my post to reply to?
Toward scum so, in the context of Boxer being scum, I imagine afk!yamato hadn't even posted in scum QT at this point and boxer was already salty about his teammate being mia.
I'm indeed ignoring what you're saying since I don't feel like it has any ground. I don't exactly understand why you say that a "tend to no-lynch" after saying "That guy might be scum" is scummy if it is not for some constructed reasons, trying to get a mis-lynch on a townie. I tend to no-lynch on D1 because it simply makes sense. The probability of hitting a town is way higher than hitting a scum member. I guess you know that. So while I have a scum read on yamato, that scum read is not built on like a rock solid ground but is more a first impression that I'll try to get a grip upon later on. Just like I did when I said "Why are you jumping on me, pulling attention on me instead of my read on yamato?" - Well, instead of replying to that, you just say "LOOK HE'S IGNORING MY WORDS", still shifting attention away from yamato (who seldomly posts anyways) to, oh look, me again.
So. You don't like the bolded part, alright? Well shame, deal with it. On D1, there's no evidence or indications of anything in general besides someone's posts. D1 is the day where (IMHO) scum can just lay back, chill the fuck out and jump on the first guy they feel is probably being mislynched. So BOOM ##unvote ##vote no-lynch until I find a case or create a case which seems to be worth a vote.
from the poorly formatted post.
This is wishy-washy and a poor excuse to switch his vote from yamato without having to have a reason to call anyone else scum. Keep in mind the part that says:
So while I have a scum read on yamato
when you read the post where he votes for yamato.
On June 07 2015 06:06 boxerfred wrote: At this point, I'm on page 21. I have read those pages completely and will hopefully get to the rest of the pages until EoD. I wanted to do something helpful and decided to skim through yamato's filter since he was the guy who voted me.
So, what did I find? Lots (LOTS) of non-helpful posts. Here's a list:
If what you asked was relevant is debatable. It also does not serve as a good duscusdion starter at all. Fact is compared to your towngames your posts lack opinions and are rather shallow. Asking for opinions on people that have done nothing so far is also not helpful.
I think regardless of your alignment you will not be able to defend against this so if you are town you should probably post something more productive instead.
It was relevant to me, I don't really care if you agree. And anyway retarded to complain that it isnt a good discussion starter when you compare it to what else was in the thread (nothing) and the fact that it actually has lead to discussion.
I am not asking for your opinions on fuba/artanis. Asking for them to give their opinions on what is happening.
Ah, misreas that fuba/artanis thing. Still asking for their opinions is also not helpful. My complaining is not retarded because noone is trying to sell that the early trolling is valuable for the game while you are trying to justify your stuff this way.
@Yamato: No idea what your problem is. It should be apparent that I do not think the interactions tells us anything about chez alignment. Accusing him the way he did does not look good for prplhz but there is nothing to pressure here. In fact I would argue that me going against mig is the most pressure anyone in this game has applied so far btw.
On June 05 2015 14:39 boxerfred wrote: Hello, people
Sick case already, looking forward to the answers!
lol?
lol.
##Vote: boxerfred
You have the best filter EU. Your first participation in this game actually is "lol? lol. vote". Would you mind to explain why you're voting me? Would you mind to explain why of all posts (and cases) that were put out thus far you choose my post to reply to?
because it was tonally scummy, for an opening post at this point in the game
@JAT
I'm just surprised you aren't putting pressure on anyone yourself. Your post looked more like complaining about how prplhz was playing than actually commenting on either player's alignment, and you still have yet to take such a stance.
I mean, if you're thinking of prplhz's alignment in relation to how he's going after CHEZINU, isn't there something you'd actually consider in this instance, given the players involved?
##vote yamato77 since your answer looks totally scummy *rolls eyes*
lel
On June 05 2015 18:32 marvellosity wrote: boxerfred's entrance seems kinda different to his newbie game (where he was mafia).
That's all I got.
I'm blown away, zz
Even better answers. "You did work? Cool, I have my unreasoned opinion and will keep it, thanks."
On June 06 2015 03:29 Fecalfeast wrote: like I have a bunch of filters open and nothing to say about them because they all suck. The case on mig is meta from like 100 years ago -sucks prplhz calling chez mafia for 'making excuses' even though he was directly asked why he was talking differently -sucks VA talking about mafia QT in 50% of his posts this game -sucks boxerfred's opener reads like he has a fake smile the entire time and he insults someone's filter less than 12 hours into the game -sucks
On June 06 2015 04:56 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I think this game needs some action, berating for people being bad and stuff like that. I hardclaim jailkeeper.
the fuck is your problem?
zzzzzzz
this is like those artanis medic claims in voice mafia, don't take them seriously
Thank you, this is getting much better.
On June 06 2015 05:06 marvellosity wrote: would lynch Artanis -> fuba -> yamato
Still bad.
hardly, everything you've done and said has been trash.
On June 06 2015 05:14 yamato77 wrote: it says something that I take so little meaning from such a shit post and you apparently think it's enough to have him as your top scumread
On June 06 2015 07:46 yamato77 wrote: Okay, JAT, we'll make assumptions about a closed setup and then blame balance and stupid hosting postgame when you're wrong and you lynched a fucking protective role that wasn't even directly counterclaimed.
Why should I not believe Artanis' claim? And unless NaCl is literally suicidal, why the fuck would he do this as mafia? You need to answer these questions rather than just scream your assumptions in the thread.
Yes, doing this would be suicidal as NaCl. That's why we are lynching Artanis who made a claim that as town made no fucking sense at all and outed a powerrole in the process.
It makes a lot of sense if you believe he's just fucking mafia.
The crumb is obvious, and not something I think scum Artanis does very often. Town Artanis feels pressured, town Artanis feels like his role is outed anyway, so he claims. Is it really such a difficult sequence of events to understand?
If NaCl IS town and he IS doctor, he's a fucking idiot for "counterclaiming" in a closed setup in the first place. If you don't believe Artanis' claim, MAKE GOOD POINTS ABOUT IT, DON'T "COUNTERCLAIM" WITH A DIFFERENT ROLE THAN THE ONE BEING CLAIMED
It's fucking asinine that you're going along with this as well. Is town JAT honestly this fucking stupid to want to lynch into obvious claims?
moar rants in capslock, everyone's "an idiot". Yeah, if those claims are real, scum has easy targets at night. However I'd assume that players are actually not that stupid and try to make the best out of the situation instead of contributing exactly NOTHING by saying "LOL U STIPID". Well those claims would only be stupid if they would be 100% right. Wouldn't they? Like, imagine the following hypothetical scenario:
I claim Doc. I have a role PM that says Doc and I am indeed the real Doc, I'm not lying. However, noone can know if I'm lying or not. Townies will have to think about that a lot before mislynching me. However, for scum, it's easier. Because scum knows: even if the claim is a lie, the guy is a townie. So, scum can of course pull out the "YOU'RE SUCH AN IDIOT FOR HARDCLAIMING" card, seemingly being the caring townie who's upset about how a fellow town member ruined the game.
To me, it appears that you are doing exactly that. Why are you so upset about a hardclaim? You cannot possibly know if that is a correct claim, you can only guess, and the most sure on that claim you would be if you'd be scum.
Up to this point, you orchestrated everything well. A mixture of disinterest, insults, yolo'ing and emotional writing. Emotional writing is great since you can never know if it is a concious use of capslock or if it is really someone banging his head on the keyboard in frustration.
On June 07 2015 03:11 yamato77 wrote: I gave an alternative and no one listens to me.
I've had better things to do and today I have work. Enjoy finding a good lynch, I tried to do my part.
"I did my work. Do what you must." The intelligent counseller is not listened to, thus he leaves, saying to the peasants "IF YOU DON'T NEED ME, DO BETTER". What kind of town play is that?
##unvote ##vote yamato77
This fanfare of a post reads to me like he (boxerman) finally decided to bus his teammate.
He already said he was scumreading yamato before this but the only reason he did the work on yamato was because 'he voted me' and 'I wanted to do something helpful' even though he was around and could have been helpful when he was originally scumreading yamato instead of pussy-footing around the issue. Almost like he wasn't sure about hard busing since it's only his second mafia game and he just lost his first one?
It's like he's already accepting the towncred he should get from busing yamato with that opening paragraph btw, that's why it's big. + Show Spoiler [bonus] +
On June 06 2015 15:59 fuba wrote: Sorry, I was really out of it today.
First, regarding the claims... I can't find a reason to really disbelieve NaCl's claim. Was at least leaning town on him before it (mostly because of the case that people seem to agree seems accurate, though I haven't had the time to look into mig's previous games myself). That being said, I can't really decide what to make of Artanis's claim. My instinct is to believe him, though that instinct has bitten me in the ass before. Like prplhz said, his story does have a consistency to it that leads me to believe he's telling the truth. The fact that prplhz's view suddenly seemed to flip on the subject makes me... uncomfortable.
On June 05 2015 20:40 boxerfred wrote:
On June 05 2015 18:10 Mig wrote: boxerfred what do you think of me? Fecal?
Is your vote for yamato a serious one? You believe he's most likely to be scum just because he voted you?
No thought on you or fecal thus far
On yamato? Given that he lurks, only to make a vote on me, only to leave another short, lurky comment? Yeah could very well be. That's not too solid however. I tend to no-vote currently.
I think I'd prefer to lynch this guy. Gives reasons to see yamato as scummy>says yamato could be scummy>backs off on it>prefers no-lynch over guy he thinks could be scum. I mean, I understand wishy-washiness better than anyone, but he definitely seems to just be coasting by. Like... if he'd really given enough thought to preferring a no-lynch over a yamato lynch, why didn't he then switch his vote? He seems to just be saying things to say things, giving the appearance of participation, and disappearing.
##Vote boxerfred
Gotta get some sleep, but I'll get up an hour or two early to read/talk.
Sure, there's a town narrative that fits for Artanis[Xp] but not if you consider that he's Artanis[Xp]. Artanis[Xp] hasn't been lynched in like 15 town games. Survived or night killed every single one of them. Is that because he pulls shit like this as town? Or is it because his town is extremely solid and he can rely on just playing normally to not get lynched? How do you reconcile Artanis[Xp]'s meta of never getting lynched as town with his behavior this game? Do you think this is the behavior of someone who never gets lynched?
I've never been mislynched either. Is it because of my sterling town play? Just feels like a silly metric to me.
On June 06 2015 16:34 prplhz wrote: @fuba What do you think about marvellosity's read on boxerfred?
The read where he says bf's opening sounds different than bf's newbie mafia game? I think it sounds like barely a read. Is that supposed to dissuade me from thinking he could be scum?
On June 06 2015 16:35 prplhz wrote: like, fuba coming in here with nothing but an inconsistent artanis read and a scum read on the new guy who talks funny is seriously underwhelming
I really have trouble understanding how my D1 returns to the thread are consistently underwhelming, when they're almost always the same kinds of posts. Literally 100% of my town games involve returning to the thread to have at least one person declare my entire post scummy, without actually addressing anything that I've said.
On June 06 2015 19:19 justanothertownie wrote:
On June 06 2015 15:59 fuba wrote: Sorry, I was really out of it today.
First, regarding the claims... I can't find a reason to really disbelieve NaCl's claim. Was at least leaning town on him before it (mostly because of the case that people seem to agree seems accurate, though I haven't had the time to look into mig's previous games myself). That being said, I can't really decide what to make of Artanis's claim. My instinct is to believe him, though that instinct has bitten me in the ass before. Like prplhz said, his story does have a consistency to it that leads me to believe he's telling the truth. The fact that prplhz's view suddenly seemed to flip on the subject makes me... uncomfortable.
On June 05 2015 20:40 boxerfred wrote:
On June 05 2015 18:10 Mig wrote: boxerfred what do you think of me? Fecal?
Is your vote for yamato a serious one? You believe he's most likely to be scum just because he voted you?
No thought on you or fecal thus far
On yamato? Given that he lurks, only to make a vote on me, only to leave another short, lurky comment? Yeah could very well be. That's not too solid however. I tend to no-vote currently.
I think I'd prefer to lynch this guy. Gives reasons to see yamato as scummy>says yamato could be scummy>backs off on it>prefers no-lynch over guy he thinks could be scum. I mean, I understand wishy-washiness better than anyone, but he definitely seems to just be coasting by. Like... if he'd really given enough thought to preferring a no-lynch over a yamato lynch, why didn't he then switch his vote? He seems to just be saying things to say things, giving the appearance of participation, and disappearing.
##Vote boxerfred
Gotta get some sleep, but I'll get up an hour or two early to read/talk.
Holy shit, I hate this post. Especially the bolded.
Case in point.
On June 06 2015 20:05 boxerfred wrote:
On June 06 2015 19:19 justanothertownie wrote:
On June 06 2015 15:59 fuba wrote: Sorry, I was really out of it today.
First, regarding the claims... I can't find a reason to really disbelieve NaCl's claim. Was at least leaning town on him before it (mostly because of the case that people seem to agree seems accurate, though I haven't had the time to look into mig's previous games myself). That being said, I can't really decide what to make of Artanis's claim. My instinct is to believe him, though that instinct has bitten me in the ass before. Like prplhz said, his story does have a consistency to it that leads me to believe he's telling the truth. The fact that prplhz's view suddenly seemed to flip on the subject makes me... uncomfortable.
On June 05 2015 20:40 boxerfred wrote:
On June 05 2015 18:10 Mig wrote: boxerfred what do you think of me? Fecal?
Is your vote for yamato a serious one? You believe he's most likely to be scum just because he voted you?
No thought on you or fecal thus far
On yamato? Given that he lurks, only to make a vote on me, only to leave another short, lurky comment? Yeah could very well be. That's not too solid however. I tend to no-vote currently.
I think I'd prefer to lynch this guy. Gives reasons to see yamato as scummy>says yamato could be scummy>backs off on it>prefers no-lynch over guy he thinks could be scum. I mean, I understand wishy-washiness better than anyone, but he definitely seems to just be coasting by. Like... if he'd really given enough thought to preferring a no-lynch over a yamato lynch, why didn't he then switch his vote? He seems to just be saying things to say things, giving the appearance of participation, and disappearing.
##Vote boxerfred
Gotta get some sleep, but I'll get up an hour or two early to read/talk.
Holy shit, I hate this post. Especially the bolded.
well I said "I tend to no-lynch" not that I would do it straight away. Fuba why so hard on me when I push yamato the slightiest?
Also ignoring what I said, and simply suggesting that the entire thing is a defense of yamato.
brb shower
I can reply to that case although I think it's really not too well constructed. Just to prove I'm town, I pull that up instead of letting it die in older pages. Are there any questions regarding me?
'just to prove I'm town' who thinks to say stuff like that when they're actually town?
There, Mig jumps the train, too. All those posts have one thing in common, and that is not Artanis, but Yamato. I really think he's a good lynch by now, even if he's town.
Lynching town because they hopped off a scum wagon is a good idea???
On June 07 2015 08:10 NaCl`y wrote: I noticed in boxerfred's mafia game that he likes to bus team mates by the way so he's totally not off the chopping block either. A lot of effort in his post to say basically the same thing as me.
:D I thought exactly this. Hard to argue against that. You're starting a tunnel on me though, I'm town. I'm okay with a mislynch though this time, I'm not a blue role.
If you are town you basically just offered yourself to mafia as a mislynch candidate.
"Hey scum I probably wont fight a mislynch pushed on me, also I'm not blue so don't shoot me"
Or, I lied to protect my green or even red identity, eh?
A guilty conscience is a real thing that scum gets.
On June 07 2015 08:31 boxerfred wrote: Wow just went into Vayne's filter. Not even a whole page. Around EoN though, with two posts indicating that Yamato really did bad plays:
On June 07 2015 06:09 VayneAuthority wrote: i dont think yamato is mafia but dont mind if he dies. hes basically just IamRobik except he doesnt ever get warned for behavior somehow even though every post he makes is a personal insult
That fruit wasn't even hanging it was rotting on the ground. He spends so much time scumming on 1 page VA while nobody seems to care and then what does he do? Nothing. Content with the amount of work he's put in it's time to go "what about va?" and then afk.
On June 08 2015 07:31 marvellosity wrote: what's your point? jat/salty came first...
shame that jat is like my top town read and salty appears quite townie to me, too. also, salty asked questions which makes it seem like he wants to come to a certain point and a conclusion while all you do is say "looks scummy" without even trying to elaborate further. salty asked decent questions, you seem to be content with sitting there, buying bus tickets.
On June 08 2015 07:31 marvellosity wrote: what's your point? jat/salty came first...
shame that jat is like my top town read and salty appears quite townie to me, too. also, salty asked questions which makes it seem like he wants to come to a certain point and a conclusion while all you do is say "looks scummy" without even trying to elaborate further. salty asked decent questions, you seem to be content with sitting there, buying bus tickets.
ah, so now it's about the phrasing of the stuff, glad to have cleared that up
do i need to particularly interrogate you when someone else is already doing so? would that make you happy?
It's not about the phrasing. It's about a point. In my first game, my coach advised me to not only ask random questions or do "he's scummy" statements, but actually try to work towards a point or a conclusion which would help set up a picture of someone that is as bulletproof as it gets. You're not trying to do that. You take out one post out of my filter, put it in the only context where it looks even remotely scummy and insist that this post is a huge TMI blow that I made. I already answered Salty's questions. Then, I answered the ones you raised, explaining why I went for you and not for Salty or JAT. You see, I'm trying to collaborate. You're just holding your barrel at me, not even caring about anything else.
Besides your scum read on me, what do you think about Vayne and my stuff on him? What do you think about fuba, given that Artanis claimed to have him blocked? Any more reads on potential scum?
He's clearly thinking about his coaching last game. Last game he was scum. ok. Also using his scum coaching to put scum on a now confirmed town.
On June 08 2015 22:45 justanothertownie wrote: And you are still scumreading marv for pointing things out about you that I pointed out first while you are townreading me which is very very strange.
On June 06 2015 10:52 justanothertownie wrote: Going to bed. Anyone who is even considering not lynching Artanis has to explain all this:
First of all you have to explain why NaCl is scum because there is no way there are 2 protective roles in a 10 vs 3 setup with 1 mafia KP and normal roles but EVEN IF THAT IS NOT ENOUGH FOR YOU ON ITS OWN and you think for some reason it is possible to have a JK AND a doctor in the same game:
The situation is the following - you are Artanis a pretty good and experienced town player and you happened to role JK. Halfway into day1 nothing much happened so far and all of a sudden marvellosity who you townread and who you think is a really good player is attacking and voting you. You played a lot of games together. Do you either try to convince him that you are town/play the game or immediately feel the need to claim? The answer is even if Artanis thinks he will potentially get lynched he will never claim his really powerful role without trying to avert the lynch otherwise before (and his stats show that he is really good at not being mislynched).
On the other hand if you are scum Artanis then you might think to yourself - "I will probably not be able to avoid being lynched" for whatever reason (maybe because town marvellosity set his sights on you). Artanis had some really weak scumgames. In THAT CASE claiming JK is pretty good. If noone counterclaims you will survive AT LEAST a day and be able to push an agenda. If you get counterclaimed you outed a really important role (if scum has a vigi getting rid of our protective role basically means they need one less mislynch for example) and in the worst case you just still get lynched. Maybe you even survive because people are idiots.
So town Artanis obviously did not claim because of being afraid. So why would he? Artanis says he claimed because he thought he was outed by a dumb breadcrumb (which I think is HIGHLY unbelievable itself) he did which marv put emphasis on. So what do you do in this situation? The answer is you never ever ever claim right away. What does town get from your outing? Nothing. If you think you absolutely need to claim for whatever reason you can still claim during the end of the night to avoid getting shot if scum happen to not know about you. By claiming you are destroying any chance of them not knowing for no real benefit.
If Artanis is town he acted incredibly stupid to a degree that is absolutely insane. I refuse to believe this and that he would not put any thought in how to play as one of towns most important and strong roles. The likelihood of him being mafia is much much higher. Add to this the claim by NaCl and we will absolutely lynch Artanis today.
This post is really good. The bad thing for me is that I have to trust in what he's saying on marv's and artanis' backstory in mafia, I don't have the experience to judge that. However, given how Yamato reacts to the claim ("it's so stupid to claim!!") this feels like he makes the claim look like a bad town move and not a genious scum move.
On June 06 2015 16:59 Mig wrote: Some stuff I noticed,
marv/yam interaction looks a little forced to me. Marv has to have played with yam 50 times by now. Yam is like this every game, the marv blow up seems overly emotional. I have seen marv blow up before but this seemed a bit much considering yam was just being his usual yam self. Just something to keep in mind.
Feast/artanis interaction - If either of artanis/feast are scum it is very unlikely that the other is also. The claim/counter claim/ artanis vote feast stuff is too random. Just a weird/unlikely series of interactions if the scum team planned out an artanis fake claim.
I honestly have no idea if having 2 protection roles would be OP for town or not. If mafia has a rber it doesn't seem that outlandish to me.
That being said I am fine with lynching artanis. I read through Noir mini mafia that he just played and I actually think artanis played well that game. Day1 of that game was about as useless as this day1 has been and he still managed to actually post some useful thoughts. So far today he has posted a paragraph on being a little suspicious of JTA and that's it. Along with that his story for why he claimed is meh. Alternating between claiming because he was bored and because marv mentioned his line with the word lock in it. It was fairly clear that marv wasn't even saying that it was a bread crumb just that artanis was giving superfluous commentary. Assuming that mafia would have figured out he was JK from that is retarded. Seems more likely that artanis is bsing.
On June 06 2015 07:50 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Also as scum if this had happened I'd know I'd have been caught and just afk for the rest of the day. Self-meta and all but it's probably accurate.
Kind of funny he said this, made a few more posts then disappeared for the rest of the day as well.
Artanis if you are town give your reads, make a case etc.
There, Mig jumps the train, too. All those posts have one thing in common, and that is not Artanis, but Yamato. I really think he's a good lynch by now, even if he's town.
Also, NaCl (who I read as town for his explanations and the idea behind his CC) made the spoilered post, mentioning Yamato in a reasonable way, too: + Show Spoiler +
On June 07 2015 00:49 NaCl`y wrote: First and foremost, I'd just like to get this out of the way. I am NOT the doctor. I decided to do this for reasons twofold:
1) I felt that no individual would ever believe they were under pressure and mafia would have caught their breadcrumb and then hard claim jailkeeper on day 1. I could not believe that a town Artanis[Xp] would do this. Since I did not believe it, I had to test out his claim. I originally thought just claiming jailkeeper would make him either rescind his silly claim or if he was mafia, give up the game. He did not do this however so I concluded that from his reactions and interactions around it his claim was pretty much sincere. This is when I decided to enact the second phase of my plan.
2) I switched my claim to doctor in order to garner reactions. Since I am town and I am pretty sure Artanis[Xp] is town then the unbelievable situation is that we have both a jailkeeper and a doctor. I don't think anybody would think this would be balanced. At least, I don't think it would in a small game such as this. So, since this was the case I left it open that there were 2 healing power roles. I did want to let everyone respond but a lot of people are just afk. No matter, this led to some very interesting reactions indeed:
The first of which is Justanothertownie. I think his reaction is by far the most sincere in the game. Posts like:
On June 06 2015 10:52 justanothertownie wrote: Going to bed. Anyone who is even considering not lynching Artanis has to explain all this:
First of all you have to explain why NaCl is scum because there is no way there are 2 protective roles in a 10 vs 3 setup with 1 mafia KP and normal roles but EVEN IF THAT IS NOT ENOUGH FOR YOU ON ITS OWN and you think for some reason it is possible to have a JK AND a doctor in the same game:
The situation is the following - you are Artanis a pretty good and experienced town player and you happened to role JK. Halfway into day1 nothing much happened so far and all of a sudden marvellosity who you townread and who you think is a really good player is attacking and voting you. You played a lot of games together. Do you either try to convince him that you are town/play the game or immediately feel the need to claim? The answer is even if Artanis thinks he will potentially get lynched he will never claim his really powerful role without trying to avert the lynch otherwise before (and his stats show that he is really good at not being mislynched).
On the other hand if you are scum Artanis then you might think to yourself - "I will probably not be able to avoid being lynched" for whatever reason (maybe because town marvellosity set his sights on you). Artanis had some really weak scumgames. In THAT CASE claiming JK is pretty good. If noone counterclaims you will survive AT LEAST a day and be able to push an agenda. If you get counterclaimed you outed a really important role (if scum has a vigi getting rid of our protective role basically means they need one less mislynch for example) and in the worst case you just still get lynched. Maybe you even survive because people are idiots.
So town Artanis obviously did not claim because of being afraid. So why would he? Artanis says he claimed because he thought he was outed by a dumb breadcrumb (which I think is HIGHLY unbelievable itself) he did which marv put emphasis on. So what do you do in this situation? The answer is you never ever ever claim right away. What does town get from your outing? Nothing. If you think you absolutely need to claim for whatever reason you can still claim during the end of the night to avoid getting shot if scum happen to not know about you. By claiming you are destroying any chance of them not knowing for no real benefit.
If Artanis is town he acted incredibly stupid to a degree that is absolutely insane. I refuse to believe this and that he would not put any thought in how to play as one of towns most important and strong roles. The likelihood of him being mafia is much much higher. Add to this the claim by NaCl and we will absolutely lynch Artanis today.
On June 06 2015 07:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Which ruse? I've already fully owned up to being bad. Are you going to be bad with me?
Your claim is so utterly terrible it is mindblowing. I have no idea how you can think doing this is a good idea (at least as town) regardless of your role. I refuse to believe that you actually felt threatened by 1 fucking vote.
I have not been trying to figure out the game? When I was in the thread I was basically the only one to do this at all.
I wasn't feeling all that threatened, I just figured that scum would figure out the crumb I made anyway after marv pointed it out.
On June 06 2015 07:33 NaCl`y wrote:
On June 06 2015 07:32 NaCl`y wrote: @Artanis
I think you know which ruse I am talking about.
I counterclaim jailkeeper.
More specifically, doctor. Not jailkeeper.
Then you're either scum or there's both a doc and jk in the game, which given it's a closed setup is possible. I'm not sure which to believe.
I fail to believe any mini game would be so utterly awful at that kind of balance. I am quite content to get lynched first for the trade.
We don't know what roles scum have. I'm not quite as convinced as you, more so because I see little reason for you to fakeclaim as scum here. Then again, Toad did do it in LX or whatever so I guess it's possible, but it seems unlikely.
On June 06 2015 07:37 justanothertownie wrote:
On June 06 2015 07:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
On June 06 2015 07:27 justanothertownie wrote:
On June 06 2015 07:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Which ruse? I've already fully owned up to being bad. Are you going to be bad with me?
Your claim is so utterly terrible it is mindblowing. I have no idea how you can think doing this is a good idea (at least as town) regardless of your role. I refuse to believe that you actually felt threatened by 1 fucking vote.
I have not been trying to figure out the game? When I was in the thread I was basically the only one to do this at all.
I wasn't feeling all that threatened, I just figured that scum would figure out the crumb I made anyway after marv pointed it out.
On June 06 2015 07:33 NaCl`y wrote:
On June 06 2015 07:32 NaCl`y wrote: @Artanis
I think you know which ruse I am talking about.
I counterclaim jailkeeper.
More specifically, doctor. Not jailkeeper.
Then you're either scum or there's both a doc and jk in the game, which given it's a closed setup is possible. I'm not sure which to believe.
I also don't believe you thought scum would catch on to your ridiculous "crumb". You are not this bad.
I actually figured you already figured it out when you kept talking about how bad I looked yet never voted or actually pushed me. I don't doubt that a 3-player scumteam would figure it out themselves.
Noone would ever make the connectionof lock = jail. Are you kidding me.
If this is a harcclaim we are 100 % lynching artanis.
care to explain?
I'm all ears.
There are never both jk and doctor in the game. If the salty guy hardclaims we are lynching the shit out of artanis. In the worst case he trades 1:1 with mafia NaCl.
So you're banking on lynching claims in a closed setup?
Yeah, no.
Yeah, yes. There are never ever both jk and doctor in a 13 player mini with scum having 1 KP. NEVER.
His reactions and surprise and looking at claims while analysing which ones make sense or not is very towny of him. I am quite happy to add him to the town pile of Artanis[Xp] and Justanothertownie thus far.
prplhz is more of a toss up, I'm not sure what to believe really. His initial reaction to the claims seemed a skeptical but also as if they were not at the same time:
I do not believe there would simply be 2 protective roles in this game. I would like the input of others that have not said anything towards this, it would be appreciated. Are there likely to be 2 town protective roles? Could Artanis[Xp] be the mafia roleblocker fake claiming since they are notified and it would be a good cover for somebody that notoriously does not play as mafia?
Until recently there couldn't be godfather, framer, miller, cop in same game but then suddenly there was a game with godfather, framer, miller, cop. So I'm not inclined to this setup speculation either. Honestly I haven't a clue what to make of these claims, I'm pretty horrible with claims.
What I'm pretty certain of is that one of you claimers is a giant moron.
On June 06 2015 08:43 justanothertownie wrote: Ok, tell me: 1) Why would scum NaCl counterclaim if they can shoot town artanis in the night? 2) How on earth does Artanis play make sense from a town pov? Do you think he is usually a pretty stupid guy?
No but I just said, the narrative of him being town, having his crumb outed, being scum read by marvellosity (who will probably get his lynch d1) and then being all frustrated and martyring and hard claiming shit, that sort of fits. Do you think scum would have done all this if they could have avoided it? This is pretty extraordinary.
On June 06 2015 09:30 prplhz wrote: seriously artanis has never been mislynched and that's not because he pulls off shit like this in all his town games
it's the exact opposite
He pretty much outlines reasons that Artanis[Xp] could be town while still saying that we should lynch him which is incredibly confusing, hence why I'm not sure about his alignment right now.
I actually think marvellosity is mafia in this game. He has had several overblown reactions that I don't think he'd have as town and his reaction to this double protective role claiming is very sub par for him. I don't think he'd ever agree with Justanothertownie's reasoning for voting Artanis[Xp] and then just blindly lynch fuba. Ever.
On June 06 2015 05:23 marvellosity wrote: There is absolutely no way a town Artanis claims jailkeeper for no reason here.
None.
He is scum.
You are going to be so disappointed.
then why did you claim?
what possible motivation when you have a total of 1 vote on you?
Because the thread was boring and I figured with the attention you gave to that part mafia would've certainly noticed and probably figured it out. This way at least everyone has the info.
that's so bad.
this is why i'm playing less and less.
i can't handle the sort of nonsense yamato + artanis are pulling this game.
i don't find it enjoyable.
it's too bad for me to find enjoyable
both Artanis[Xp] and Yamato77 were marvellosity's scum reads. Yet, when they did such utterly terrible things it garnered this reaction from marvellosity. Now, he's played quite a few games with Artanis[Xp] and from what I've seen he catches him if he is mafia quite regularly and has seen Artanis[Xp] claim things like mafia but lynched him anyway. This is a stupid claim and his initial reaction is frustration at stupidity but we find out later that marvellosity is STILL scum reading Artanis[Xp]. This, in tandem with his reaction to Yamato77 (his other scum read) seems very disingenuous.
Now, getting to the part of the claims. I never expected marvellosity to just sit back on a lynch when there were 2 protective roles claimed in the thread. ESPECIALLY if one of them was his original scum read that has now been outed. However, his reactions are so meek that I can only conclude that this is a mafia marvellosity.
On June 06 2015 19:56 marvellosity wrote: Mig: the context is all in my posts, my patience levels are even lower than what they used to be, I have nothing further to add
what jat wrote is honestly quite convincing about artanis, probably because i kinda believe it myself. still, it's possibly a risky play i guess just to randomly claim when you could talk yourself out of it? still can't decide firmly
like i said last night, I find the idea that I found artanis, it happened to contain the word lock, and he made the best of it not unlikely
that said, my vote is probably on mafia with fuba anyway.
soooo......
Actually i went back and read what jat wrote again, still pretty convinced. i'd lynch either.
He barely mentions the fact that there are 2 claims. He in fact ignores it. He bypasses this fact to then just talk about Artanis[Xp]'s reaction instead. However, it's as if he doesn't even care about it. He'd rather just sit back and lynch whoever instead of trying to figure things out. Fuba is such a cop out lynch and not something I think he'd be doing.
Regardless his play this game can be surmised as: Overblown reactions to Artanis[Xp]'s stupidity and a fake reaction to Yamato77 and nothing.
On June 06 2015 20:00 marvellosity wrote: Does mafia KP = 1 mean KP is factional and leaves room for the possibility of a mafia vigi, or is it 1 maximum?
I do not think he'd ever ask this question as town. I'm actually blown away that he'd ever ask this when he 100% knows it would never get answered. He has also now claimed inactivity excuses.
I think he is mafia.
Yamato77 is another person that I think is likely to be mafia. Out of all the reactions he had me scratching my head the most. He seemed to instantly believe that both claims were entirely real and that Artanis[Xp]'s post was most definitely a breadcrumb and never listened to logic that dictated otherwise.
On June 06 2015 07:46 yamato77 wrote: Okay, JAT, we'll make assumptions about a closed setup and then blame balance and stupid hosting postgame when you're wrong and you lynched a fucking protective role that wasn't even directly counterclaimed.
Why should I not believe Artanis' claim? And unless NaCl is literally suicidal, why the fuck would he do this as mafia? You need to answer these questions rather than just scream your assumptions in the thread.
Yes, doing this would be suicidal as NaCl. That's why we are lynching Artanis who made a claim that as town made no fucking sense at all and outed a powerrole in the process.
It makes a lot of sense if you believe he's just fucking mafia.
The crumb is obvious, and not something I think scum Artanis does very often. Town Artanis feels pressured, town Artanis feels like his role is outed anyway, so he claims. Is it really such a difficult sequence of events to understand?
If NaCl IS town and he IS doctor, he's a fucking idiot for "counterclaiming" in a closed setup in the first place. If you don't believe Artanis' claim, MAKE GOOD POINTS ABOUT IT, DON'T "COUNTERCLAIM" WITH A DIFFERENT ROLE THAN THE ONE BEING CLAIMED
It's fucking asinine that you're going along with this as well. Is town JAT honestly this fucking stupid to want to lynch into obvious claims?
On June 06 2015 07:46 yamato77 wrote: Okay, JAT, we'll make assumptions about a closed setup and then blame balance and stupid hosting postgame when you're wrong and you lynched a fucking protective role that wasn't even directly counterclaimed.
Why should I not believe Artanis' claim? And unless NaCl is literally suicidal, why the fuck would he do this as mafia? You need to answer these questions rather than just scream your assumptions in the thread.
Yes, doing this would be suicidal as NaCl. That's why we are lynching Artanis who made a claim that as town made no fucking sense at all and outed a powerrole in the process.
It makes a lot of sense if you believe he's just fucking mafia.
The crumb is obvious, and not something I think scum Artanis does very often. Town Artanis feels pressured, town Artanis feels like his role is outed anyway, so he claims. Is it really such a difficult sequence of events to understand?
If NaCl IS town and he IS doctor, he's a fucking idiot for "counterclaiming" in a closed setup in the first place. If you don't believe Artanis' claim, MAKE GOOD POINTS ABOUT IT, DON'T "COUNTERCLAIM" WITH A DIFFERENT ROLE THAN THE ONE BEING CLAIMED
It's fucking asinine that you're going along with this as well. Is town JAT honestly this fucking stupid to want to lynch into obvious claims?
It is literally irrelevant if NaCl is an idiot or not. Artanis claim makes 0 sense from a town pov. The crumb is not obvious at all.
Look, Artanis shouldn't have claimed when he did, but the crumb is quite obviously a crumb in hindsight
If you don't think it's a crumb now, I don't know what to tell you
On June 06 2015 08:09 yamato77 wrote: Fine, JAT, obviously you don't listen to me, so you can have your way.
I will have no part in this lynch however.
I don't think he ever pondered the possibility that one of the claims was false or otherwise. Artanis[Xp]'s breadcrumb did not look like a breadcrumb at all and was actually in a standard phrase that many people use in mafia so "in hindsight" it still doesn't look like a breadcrumb at all. I think he has shown that he is using too much information to make a read and that becomes very evident in this situation.
On June 06 2015 16:59 Mig wrote: Some stuff I noticed,
marv/yam interaction looks a little forced to me. Marv has to have played with yam 50 times by now. Yam is like this every game, the marv blow up seems overly emotional. I have seen marv blow up before but this seemed a bit much considering yam was just being his usual yam self. Just something to keep in mind.
Feast/artanis interaction - If either of artanis/feast are scum it is very unlikely that the other is also. The claim/counter claim/ artanis vote feast stuff is too random. Just a weird/unlikely series of interactions if the scum team planned out an artanis fake claim.
I honestly have no idea if having 2 protection roles would be OP for town or not. If mafia has a rber it doesn't seem that outlandish to me.
That being said I am fine with lynching artanis. I read through Noir mini mafia that he just played and I actually think artanis played well that game. Day1 of that game was about as useless as this day1 has been and he still managed to actually post some useful thoughts. So far today he has posted a paragraph on being a little suspicious of JTA and that's it. Along with that his story for why he claimed is meh. Alternating between claiming because he was bored and because marv mentioned his line with the word lock in it. It was fairly clear that marv wasn't even saying that it was a bread crumb just that artanis was giving superfluous commentary. Assuming that mafia would have figured out he was JK from that is retarded. Seems more likely that artanis is bsing.
On June 06 2015 07:50 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Also as scum if this had happened I'd know I'd have been caught and just afk for the rest of the day. Self-meta and all but it's probably accurate.
Kind of funny he said this, made a few more posts then disappeared for the rest of the day as well.
Artanis if you are town give your reads, make a case etc.
actually looks quite genuine and thought out, it shows that he's analytically looking at the alignments of the big event that happened in the game so far and did some background reading to make sure. His interactions points seem a bit too surface level though so a bit hesitant to add him to a town circle but definitely not in a scummy circle quite yet either.
This is getting a bit long and i'm not sure people are going to read it so for the sake of clarity
People I am happy with and think are probably town: Artanis[Xp], justanothertownie
People that I am happy with: mig, possibly fuba for analysing peoples' reactions (not mentioned in long post sorry), Alakaslam
People that I am ok with: prplhz
People that I have no idea about: VayneAuthority (not mentioned but I don't really have a clue, didn't like his reactions though), Chezinu (ignored most of the game), FecalFeast,
People I think are scum: Marvellosity, Yamato77, boxerfred (I read his past game where he was mafia and it looked very similar)
##unvote ##vote yamato77
He also reads me as scum - well AMA then, really don't want to make you think that. Since you refer to my last game for your statement, I'll say 2 things:
a) 1 game of many to come is not indicative of how I play, neither as scum nor as town. It was my first game ever on TL mafia, even my first game ever in a forum. b) Can you please point out the parallels that you are seeing so scum boxerfred can get rid of them? Nah kidding. You don't need to explain the parallels to me as of now but before you start a train on me getting a mislynch, I want to have the reasoning behind it.
Since town is supposed to find scum I'm not mad at you for pointing out things on me that look scummy. It's fine, go on. I just don't like marv jumping that train. He's just adding fuel to the fire. Shame I'm adding more fuel by myself already, I need to calm down.
This is just deeply inconsistent - either the things on you are valid/scummy or they are not.
So even if you think jat/salty are town, you should be attacking their reasoning, rather than simply attacking me for holding the same/similar reasoning.
It's valid that this was a TMI-ish call, can't deny that. If you go in my filter, you'll see that I needed a while to realize that. So I see why there's a scum lean on me.
Regarding the bolded part: oh should I? Why should I stop going after you?
He basically says "yeah good point that is scummy" and then proceeds to get confrontational with marv again... He calls marv scummy constantly throughout the day until his list post.
On June 09 2015 03:31 boxerfred wrote: I have a pretty good idea who nacl is. By the way salty, who are you scum reads as of now?
Do share with the class!
I do not particularly know at this time since half of the players have disappeared. If I had to base it primarily from reactions and such that I remember it would be some variant of you/Chezinu/Fuba, possibly FecalFeast.
Fuba's post today left me most perplexed.
cakepie. Same style of writing/posting, very sophisticated and detailed. The thing that made me commit to that was your defense of new players.
Regarding fuba - I think he has valid reasonings behind his stuff. Like when he initially voted me for my push on yamato into unvoting etc., that was an okay-ish argumentation. He then drew a connection between marv and me, here:
On June 06 2015 15:59 fuba wrote: Sorry, I was really out of it today.
First, regarding the claims... I can't find a reason to really disbelieve NaCl's claim. Was at least leaning town on him before it (mostly because of the case that people seem to agree seems accurate, though I haven't had the time to look into mig's previous games myself). That being said, I can't really decide what to make of Artanis's claim. My instinct is to believe him, though that instinct has bitten me in the ass before. Like prplhz said, his story does have a consistency to it that leads me to believe he's telling the truth. The fact that prplhz's view suddenly seemed to flip on the subject makes me... uncomfortable.
On June 05 2015 20:40 boxerfred wrote:
On June 05 2015 18:10 Mig wrote: boxerfred what do you think of me? Fecal?
Is your vote for yamato a serious one? You believe he's most likely to be scum just because he voted you?
No thought on you or fecal thus far
On yamato? Given that he lurks, only to make a vote on me, only to leave another short, lurky comment? Yeah could very well be. That's not too solid however. I tend to no-vote currently.
I think I'd prefer to lynch this guy. Gives reasons to see yamato as scummy>says yamato could be scummy>backs off on it>prefers no-lynch over guy he thinks could be scum. I mean, I understand wishy-washiness better than anyone, but he definitely seems to just be coasting by. Like... if he'd really given enough thought to preferring a no-lynch over a yamato lynch, why didn't he then switch his vote? He seems to just be saying things to say things, giving the appearance of participation, and disappearing.
##Vote boxerfred
Gotta get some sleep, but I'll get up an hour or two early to read/talk.
Sure, there's a town narrative that fits for Artanis[Xp] but not if you consider that he's Artanis[Xp]. Artanis[Xp] hasn't been lynched in like 15 town games. Survived or night killed every single one of them. Is that because he pulls shit like this as town? Or is it because his town is extremely solid and he can rely on just playing normally to not get lynched? How do you reconcile Artanis[Xp]'s meta of never getting lynched as town with his behavior this game? Do you think this is the behavior of someone who never gets lynched?
I've never been mislynched either. Is it because of my sterling town play? Just feels like a silly metric to me.
On June 06 2015 16:34 prplhz wrote: @fuba What do you think about marvellosity's read on boxerfred?
The read where he says bf's opening sounds different than bf's newbie mafia game? I think it sounds like barely a read. Is that supposed to dissuade me from thinking he could be scum?
He completely unfollows that train of thoughts though.
I can't really find any points from which I'd give him a scum lean thus far. Only thing to note is that he never really commits to something. On the other hand, he genuinely explains his thoughts and soft pushes. I'd expect him to go harder at people when the game goes further but at this point, he's poking very softly and disappears again then. So at this point I'm willing to read him town.
Also, regarding me: FF says I'm looking rather frustrated than townish, fuba also goes for a null/town read on me, for other reasons though. It's interesting that Salty, while being all polite, obviously has a strong scum read on me. Hm.
So here's a "feeling ranking" of all the players:
marvellosity: town tendency. His filter didn't give any clues of huge scum players or anything that would indicate a thing. Also, he started a case on Mig, I guess that's something.
justanothertownie Town. Still for his read that I quoted earlier and nothing that would indicate a scum alignment.
NaCl`y Town. If I remember correctly, he also went hard on yamato. gotta re-check but I'm kinda sure.
fuba town tendency. see this post.
VayneAuthority scum tendency. Because he didn't really answer my questions and pops up every now and then only
FecalFeast town tendency. his posts feel good and are very reasoned. no derailing or similar.
So that makes me locate the living scum members at: prplhz, chezinu, HTS, Mig, VA (in no particular order).
Bullshit townreads ahead: Marv is now town because "he started a case on Mig" even though boxer had been shitighting with his all day. Trying to appease marv?
JAT for something he admits, with the word 'still,' is dated. "and nothing that would indicate a scum alignment." is the most bullshit non reason I've seen.
NACL.... "If I remember correctly, he also went hard on yamato. gotta re-check but I'm kinda sure." no mention of claims, acts as though he can't remember what NACL has said even though he claims to know who NACL is by how he is posting. Seems like you'd need to be paying more attention to his posts to figure that out.
fuba townread is because he saw a connection between BF and marv and then 'completely unfollows that train of thought.'
extra whitespace because editing post before he sends it out.
Townread on me because my posts feel good. Wow man thanks that's a good reason to townread someone on day 2.
look at the next post where he says he's going to address the NACL doctor claim.
This huge post basically shouts "I'M TOWN". What happened to the marv scum read, NaCl? I realized that you kept me in your recent list, while Chezinu went from "no idea about" to "scum". Why is he scum by now? I am asking that because the fight between me and Marv pulled (IMHO) too much attention off previous thoughts and cases. I don't want that to happen. Also, I want you to filter dive on me and make a case. You're posting in a fair and reasonable way and I'll try to explain anything you find in a genuine way.
The bolded covers three scummy things IMO. First, he asks why one of his top towns is no longer scumreading marv who, in BF's last list, is looking townish. Why bring up your townread's old reads and ask about them when they align with yours? Second, he questions the chezinu scumread even though he, himself reads chezinu scum. Thirdly he says that he would prefer if people didn't pull as much information out of old cases in the same breath he asks "why happened to your marv scumread"
On June 09 2015 18:45 marvellosity wrote: I was supposed to think about boxerfred today, but it seems like a lot of effort.
I can't decide what his backing off me means. Genuine re-read or opportunistic because i'm a rather more annoying foe than bargained for?
Are the people who were suspicious of him before now happy with him?
Not really. I feel like he is just going with thread sentiment. He backed off of you after NaCl and me made it very clear that he would not have success with that push multiple times.
If I was going with thread sentiment I would not ever have gotten in that shitwar with Marv. Also, I wouldn't have made a case on Vayne (that is still being disregarded). Also, I would have voted for Chenizu instead asking why you did not imply him. Also, I wouldn't pressure you. It's just Mig popping up and asking "Wait, why exactly is JAT town?" - and I asked specific questions that you refuse to answer. I wouldn't call that thread sentiment. Thread sentiment was basically "look there's Chez let's discuss with him in friendly banter". You might've noticed I completely refrained from that, also because I simply don't understand everything he's saying. I backed off of marv since I was advised to read his filter without the shitwar which I did.
And who did advise you to do that? ME. But you think I haven't done anything except for the Artanis thing. Good job.
And going against me after mig, prplhz and FF previously voiced suspicion IS going with thread sentiment because I think at least 2/3 of those are town.
True that! See, you actually CAN point to something. That's all I wanted. Well done.
On June 08 2015 07:31 marvellosity wrote: what's your point? jat/salty came first...
shame that jat is like my top town read and salty appears quite townie to me, too. also, salty asked questions which makes it seem like he wants to come to a certain point and a conclusion while all you do is say "looks scummy" without even trying to elaborate further. salty asked decent questions, you seem to be content with sitting there, buying bus tickets.
On June 10 2015 07:08 boxerfred wrote: because this
this was your reason for voting marv. What exactly did you believe and why?
So can anyone explain to me why JAT is town? Anyone? The non stop town reads for him seriously baffles me.
After I accused him on day2 he said he was going to do a lot. What exactly has he done? All I see is him repeating 500 times about how hes unlynchable.
Also, does anyone know how wbg balances his games? Is it random or does he pick. If he picks then a combination of a scum team of boxer/fuba/vayne/yam seems really weak if you are putting JAT/marv/nac (seems to be a good player)/artanis all on the same squad.
Makes way more sense to me to have JAT on the scum team. Or maybe ff but again you run into having the scum team be lurkers/yam (sucks)/new player. Games arent really fun if you have all of the active players being town.
Obviously this is just speculation and not proof of anything but it makes sense and adds to my earlier case.
EPT
