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[M][N] I Still Can't Believe it's not Themed Mafia - Page 82

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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justanothertownie
Profile Joined July 2013
16343 Posts
June 10 2015 19:14 GMT
#1621
That boxerfred post is so remarkably shit that I consider lynching him over fuba.
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
June 10 2015 19:14 GMT
#1622
On June 11 2015 04:14 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 11 2015 04:11 boxerfred wrote:
On June 11 2015 04:10 marvellosity wrote:
how does any of this commentary make him mafia exactly?

Shame you don't see it.

I mean this in all seriousness, and not as a criticism of you, so please take it in the spirit it's intended (we'll assume you're town for now)

when you talk about someone, you need to be clear/concise about how what you're saying is more likely to come from a mafia perspective than a town perspective

this isn't the first time you've done this - you just comment on a series of posts and you create your own narrative.

Well, I (and also most other players in this game) can easily provide you with an alternative narrative.

A better case structure is as follows:

1. jat does this thing (1 or 2 quotes as evidence)
2. here's why it makes sense from a mafia perspective
3. here's why i don't think it's the town perspective
4. conclusion

for a town bf so it doesn't get lost
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
June 10 2015 19:20 GMT
#1623
BF, two major flaws in your case offhand.

1 The one-liner thing is not a valid argument. First JAT does that as both alignments. Second if you don't trust what I, or anyone else, says there on JAT, case building is not the only way to go about doing things, most people on this forum generally prefer conversational approach to scumhunting, some people find it easier to detect scumtells in conversation. There are some people like Damdred, Trfel, Tictock, myself, ritoky to a lesser extent that do go the case route, but to be a truly masterful mafia player on this site, you should know how to work both conversationally and via case route.

2 A number of those points about the Artanis claim are similar to what Mig tried to do when scumreading JAT and I shot just about everything down. There are honest reasons to doubt a claim and I can tell you haven't looked into those.
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
justanothertownie
Profile Joined July 2013
16343 Posts
June 10 2015 19:23 GMT
#1624
I won't even adress most of this bullshit because it is pretty obvious how wrong the whole narrative is but what really sticks out to me is how BF says "it was clear that NaCl was just testing the waters with his cc - even I saw it". Where on earth does this shit come from? Even if this wasn't incredibly wrong in the first place I was his TOP townread before for exactly the reason that I went at Artanis/for the claim analysis thing. It doesn't make ANY sense.
fuba
Profile Joined April 2014
United States663 Posts
June 10 2015 19:26 GMT
#1625
On June 11 2015 04:14 justanothertownie wrote:
That boxerfred post is so remarkably shit that I consider lynching him over fuba.

You're quite a joy to play with.

Not that I think I'm any better to play with, mind you, but for different reasons.



Not sure how to respond to what's been said about me. I have absolutely no idea what chez was doing at all, because it definitely seemed to me as though he was saying that when he flipped, marv would be in trouble. That, along with the comment about millers, made me think he was claiming something (specifically cop). His play that day seemed to be from the perspective of a cop who had a red check on marv. I have a lot of trouble understanding how no one else at least caught glimpses of this.

Actually, didn't someone say something about chez and mad hatters? Like "cut it out with this mad hatter shit" or something? Thought it was prplhz, but I didn't see it in his filter.

Oh, it was mig. So at least one other person saw some sort of claim in chez's play. Guess that means I'm not completely insane.
@theRealMkfuba07
justanothertownie
Profile Joined July 2013
16343 Posts
June 10 2015 19:27 GMT
#1626
On June 11 2015 04:07 boxerfred wrote:
Here you explain it. First sentence: what makes you so sure that NaCl's claim is a true one? That is a slight TMI call to me. You hide it nicely, talking about setup speculation which at this point is likely to keep everyone busy. However while you strongly doubt Artanis' claim, you don't put a second thought onto NaCl's claim being a fake one. Why not? Why are you so sure that his claim is real? Does it make that much sense for a Doctor to claim D1, even if Artanis' claim was fake for real (which is something that salty could not know). You're experienced, why didn't you identify that CC just as a play to test the waters (hell even I did that)?

Next you say, "the situation is the following". Holy hell it's D1 and you cannot possibly know what drives people to do what they do. Yet you construct a theory that is terribly wrong. Next bolded part: "Artanis had weak scum games in the past. Now he's pulling an absolutely sick move!" How does that make sense? Like: "meta says Artanis sucks as scum but I'm sure he's rocking it this time!"

This whole part makes no fucking sense with how boxerfred played day1. It does not compute.
justanothertownie
Profile Joined July 2013
16343 Posts
June 10 2015 19:28 GMT
#1627
On June 11 2015 04:26 fuba wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 11 2015 04:14 justanothertownie wrote:
That boxerfred post is so remarkably shit that I consider lynching him over fuba.

You're quite a joy to play with.

Not that I think I'm any better to play with, mind you, but for different reasons.



Not sure how to respond to what's been said about me. I have absolutely no idea what chez was doing at all, because it definitely seemed to me as though he was saying that when he flipped, marv would be in trouble. That, along with the comment about millers, made me think he was claiming something (specifically cop). His play that day seemed to be from the perspective of a cop who had a red check on marv. I have a lot of trouble understanding how no one else at least caught glimpses of this.

Actually, didn't someone say something about chez and mad hatters? Like "cut it out with this mad hatter shit" or something? Thought it was prplhz, but I didn't see it in his filter.

Oh, it was mig. So at least one other person saw some sort of claim in chez's play. Guess that means I'm not completely insane.

Well, the hatter thing was obviously because of the vid he posted where he said if he dies marv will also die. However there was no indication whatsoever that chez could be cop ever.
boxerfred
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Germany8360 Posts
June 10 2015 19:31 GMT
#1628
On June 11 2015 04:14 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 11 2015 04:11 boxerfred wrote:
On June 11 2015 04:10 marvellosity wrote:
how does any of this commentary make him mafia exactly?

Shame you don't see it.

I mean this in all seriousness, and not as a criticism of you, so please take it in the spirit it's intended (we'll assume you're town for now)

when you talk about someone, you need to be clear/concise about how what you're saying is more likely to come from a mafia perspective than a town perspective

this isn't the first time you've done this - you just comment on a series of posts and you create your own narrative.

Well, I (and also most other players in this game) can easily provide you with an alternative narrative.

A better case structure is as follows:

1. jat does this thing (1 or 2 quotes as evidence)
2. here's why it makes sense from a mafia perspective
3. here's why i don't think it's the town perspective
4. conclusion


1. jat does only oneliners, has a huge misread on Artanis which I don't think would come from such an experienced player.
2. jat does a TMI-ish call on NaCl (yamato got hanged for a similar one on artanis)
3. a filter of oneliners is not townish
4. thus he's scummy

On June 11 2015 04:20 Half the Sky wrote:
BF, two major flaws in your case offhand.

1 The one-liner thing is not a valid argument. First JAT does that as both alignments. Second if you don't trust what I, or anyone else, says there on JAT, case building is not the only way to go about doing things, most people on this forum generally prefer conversational approach to scumhunting, some people find it easier to detect scumtells in conversation. There are some people like Damdred, Trfel, Tictock, myself, ritoky to a lesser extent that do go the case route, but to be a truly masterful mafia player on this site, you should know how to work both conversationally and via case route.

2 A number of those points about the Artanis claim are similar to what Mig tried to do when scumreading JAT and I shot just about everything down. There are honest reasons to doubt a claim and I can tell you haven't looked into those.


ad 1: this is not a meta read but a "he's not very townie in the majority of his posts". note that "not very townie != scummy"

ad 2: okay I can get that, but what about my TMI argument on NaCl's claim? The bolded part?
boxerfred
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Germany8360 Posts
June 10 2015 19:31 GMT
#1629
On June 11 2015 04:14 justanothertownie wrote:
That boxerfred post is so remarkably shit that I consider lynching him over fuba.

You have my vote. And my axe.
boxerfred
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Germany8360 Posts
June 10 2015 19:32 GMT
#1630
On June 11 2015 04:23 justanothertownie wrote:
I won't even adress most of this bullshit because it is pretty obvious how wrong the whole narrative is but what really sticks out to me is how BF says "it was clear that NaCl was just testing the waters with his cc - even I saw it". Where on earth does this shit come from? Even if this wasn't incredibly wrong in the first place I was his TOP townread before for exactly the reason that I went at Artanis/for the claim analysis thing. It doesn't make ANY sense.

Are you so pissed you aren't anymore?
boxerfred
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Germany8360 Posts
June 10 2015 19:32 GMT
#1631
On June 11 2015 04:27 justanothertownie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 11 2015 04:07 boxerfred wrote:
Here you explain it. First sentence: what makes you so sure that NaCl's claim is a true one? That is a slight TMI call to me. You hide it nicely, talking about setup speculation which at this point is likely to keep everyone busy. However while you strongly doubt Artanis' claim, you don't put a second thought onto NaCl's claim being a fake one. Why not? Why are you so sure that his claim is real? Does it make that much sense for a Doctor to claim D1, even if Artanis' claim was fake for real (which is something that salty could not know). You're experienced, why didn't you identify that CC just as a play to test the waters (hell even I did that)?

Next you say, "the situation is the following". Holy hell it's D1 and you cannot possibly know what drives people to do what they do. Yet you construct a theory that is terribly wrong. Next bolded part: "Artanis had weak scum games in the past. Now he's pulling an absolutely sick move!" How does that make sense? Like: "meta says Artanis sucks as scum but I'm sure he's rocking it this time!"

This whole part makes no fucking sense with how boxerfred played day1. It does not compute.

Yeah feels like I did what I said I'd do: post not so often but put more effort in my posts and think things out. Keep on not answering. You're my top vote by now.
justanothertownie
Profile Joined July 2013
16343 Posts
June 10 2015 19:34 GMT
#1632
On June 11 2015 04:31 boxerfred wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 11 2015 04:14 marvellosity wrote:
On June 11 2015 04:11 boxerfred wrote:
On June 11 2015 04:10 marvellosity wrote:
how does any of this commentary make him mafia exactly?

Shame you don't see it.

I mean this in all seriousness, and not as a criticism of you, so please take it in the spirit it's intended (we'll assume you're town for now)

when you talk about someone, you need to be clear/concise about how what you're saying is more likely to come from a mafia perspective than a town perspective

this isn't the first time you've done this - you just comment on a series of posts and you create your own narrative.

Well, I (and also most other players in this game) can easily provide you with an alternative narrative.

A better case structure is as follows:

1. jat does this thing (1 or 2 quotes as evidence)
2. here's why it makes sense from a mafia perspective
3. here's why i don't think it's the town perspective
4. conclusion


1. jat does only oneliners, has a huge misread on Artanis which I don't think would come from such an experienced player.
2. jat does a TMI-ish call on NaCl (yamato got hanged for a similar one on artanis)
3. a filter of oneliners is not townish
4. thus he's scummy

Show nested quote +
On June 11 2015 04:20 Half the Sky wrote:
BF, two major flaws in your case offhand.

1 The one-liner thing is not a valid argument. First JAT does that as both alignments. Second if you don't trust what I, or anyone else, says there on JAT, case building is not the only way to go about doing things, most people on this forum generally prefer conversational approach to scumhunting, some people find it easier to detect scumtells in conversation. There are some people like Damdred, Trfel, Tictock, myself, ritoky to a lesser extent that do go the case route, but to be a truly masterful mafia player on this site, you should know how to work both conversationally and via case route.

2 A number of those points about the Artanis claim are similar to what Mig tried to do when scumreading JAT and I shot just about everything down. There are honest reasons to doubt a claim and I can tell you haven't looked into those.


ad 1: this is not a meta read but a "he's not very townie in the majority of his posts". note that "not very townie != scummy"

ad 2: okay I can get that, but what about my TMI argument on NaCl's claim? The bolded part?

1. Onliners are no scumtell. Where did I misread Artanis? He was cced and the only people who knew he was town are mafia.
2. Nope nope nope. It just makes 0 sense to cc as mafia and I said as much. If you use your brain on this one it is clearly visible that NaCls claim comes from town in 99/100 cases.
3. It is not mafiaish either.
4. bullshit
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
June 10 2015 19:35 GMT
#1633
On June 11 2015 04:26 fuba wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 11 2015 04:14 justanothertownie wrote:
That boxerfred post is so remarkably shit that I consider lynching him over fuba.

You're quite a joy to play with.

Not that I think I'm any better to play with, mind you, but for different reasons.



Not sure how to respond to what's been said about me. I have absolutely no idea what chez was doing at all, because it definitely seemed to me as though he was saying that when he flipped, marv would be in trouble. That, along with the comment about millers, made me think he was claiming something (specifically cop). His play that day seemed to be from the perspective of a cop who had a red check on marv. I have a lot of trouble understanding how no one else at least caught glimpses of this.

Actually, didn't someone say something about chez and mad hatters? Like "cut it out with this mad hatter shit" or something? Thought it was prplhz, but I didn't see it in his filter.

Oh, it was mig. So at least one other person saw some sort of claim in chez's play. Guess that means I'm not completely insane.


We went through this already. We expected a hardclaim based on him saying he had to afk even though it was 5h approx prior to EoD. Question after question we threw at him because no one could tell, I looked up his history to compare and test the "riddle" theory you brought up. Both FF and I read filters God knows how many times. And Mig I think said quite the opposite rightly or wrongly and voted him saying he wouldn't forget a game he was dt, he's screwing around or whatever, so that statement doesn't hold unless I misunderstood it.
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
justanothertownie
Profile Joined July 2013
16343 Posts
June 10 2015 19:36 GMT
#1634
On June 11 2015 04:32 boxerfred wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 11 2015 04:27 justanothertownie wrote:
On June 11 2015 04:07 boxerfred wrote:
Here you explain it. First sentence: what makes you so sure that NaCl's claim is a true one? That is a slight TMI call to me. You hide it nicely, talking about setup speculation which at this point is likely to keep everyone busy. However while you strongly doubt Artanis' claim, you don't put a second thought onto NaCl's claim being a fake one. Why not? Why are you so sure that his claim is real? Does it make that much sense for a Doctor to claim D1, even if Artanis' claim was fake for real (which is something that salty could not know). You're experienced, why didn't you identify that CC just as a play to test the waters (hell even I did that)?

Next you say, "the situation is the following". Holy hell it's D1 and you cannot possibly know what drives people to do what they do. Yet you construct a theory that is terribly wrong. Next bolded part: "Artanis had weak scum games in the past. Now he's pulling an absolutely sick move!" How does that make sense? Like: "meta says Artanis sucks as scum but I'm sure he's rocking it this time!"

This whole part makes no fucking sense with how boxerfred played day1. It does not compute.

Yeah feels like I did what I said I'd do: post not so often but put more effort in my posts and think things out. Keep on not answering. You're my top vote by now.

I don't care in the slightest. I am never getting lynched this game. You on the other hand just volunteered to be hanged day3.
justanothertownie
Profile Joined July 2013
16343 Posts
June 10 2015 19:38 GMT
#1635
On June 11 2015 04:35 Half the Sky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 11 2015 04:26 fuba wrote:
On June 11 2015 04:14 justanothertownie wrote:
That boxerfred post is so remarkably shit that I consider lynching him over fuba.

You're quite a joy to play with.

Not that I think I'm any better to play with, mind you, but for different reasons.



Not sure how to respond to what's been said about me. I have absolutely no idea what chez was doing at all, because it definitely seemed to me as though he was saying that when he flipped, marv would be in trouble. That, along with the comment about millers, made me think he was claiming something (specifically cop). His play that day seemed to be from the perspective of a cop who had a red check on marv. I have a lot of trouble understanding how no one else at least caught glimpses of this.

Actually, didn't someone say something about chez and mad hatters? Like "cut it out with this mad hatter shit" or something? Thought it was prplhz, but I didn't see it in his filter.

Oh, it was mig. So at least one other person saw some sort of claim in chez's play. Guess that means I'm not completely insane.


We went through this already. We expected a hardclaim based on him saying he had to afk even though it was 5h approx prior to EoD. Question after question we threw at him because no one could tell, I looked up his history to compare and test the "riddle" theory you brought up. Both FF and I read filters God knows how many times. And Mig I think said quite the opposite rightly or wrongly and voted him saying he wouldn't forget a game he was dt, he's screwing around or whatever, so that statement doesn't hold unless I misunderstood it.

That's not even the point. He never ever claimed cop or even something close to it.
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
June 10 2015 19:40 GMT
#1636
On June 11 2015 04:31 boxerfred wrote:
ad 2: okay I can get that, but what about my TMI argument on NaCl's claim? The bolded part?


BF, that goes hand in hand what I originally said about many reasons to doubt a claim, there are conversely many reasons to accept one claim over another. The same principle applies.

That does not necessarily mean TMI.
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
fuba
Profile Joined April 2014
United States663 Posts
June 10 2015 19:40 GMT
#1637
On June 11 2015 04:28 justanothertownie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 11 2015 04:26 fuba wrote:
On June 11 2015 04:14 justanothertownie wrote:
That boxerfred post is so remarkably shit that I consider lynching him over fuba.

You're quite a joy to play with.

Not that I think I'm any better to play with, mind you, but for different reasons.



Not sure how to respond to what's been said about me. I have absolutely no idea what chez was doing at all, because it definitely seemed to me as though he was saying that when he flipped, marv would be in trouble. That, along with the comment about millers, made me think he was claiming something (specifically cop). His play that day seemed to be from the perspective of a cop who had a red check on marv. I have a lot of trouble understanding how no one else at least caught glimpses of this.

Actually, didn't someone say something about chez and mad hatters? Like "cut it out with this mad hatter shit" or something? Thought it was prplhz, but I didn't see it in his filter.

Oh, it was mig. So at least one other person saw some sort of claim in chez's play. Guess that means I'm not completely insane.

Well, the hatter thing was obviously because of the vid he posted where he said if he dies marv will also die. However there was no indication whatsoever that chez could be cop ever.

And my thought was that he simply went a step farther. Once chez dies as cop, we will see that he was cop, and lend more proof to his read on marv. Obviously I was incorrect, but the fact that no one else even saw it as a possibility really confuses me.

In any case, I still don't see how it makes me scum. Like, I'm having trouble seeing my play this game from a scum perspective. Am I more likely to think chez is cop if I'm scum? Am I more likely to even lightly defend BF as scum (though that is a read I'll have to reexamine going into D3)? And given that everyone considers my reasons for reads to be shitty, why wouldn't I just make a shitty fake scumread on someone?

Oh, and while I'm thinking about it, I didn't just take artanis's claim at face value. I thought about it for quite a while. So the only "absolute" thing I've said was about chez. And I still have trouble seeing why he would say/do those things as a VT.
@theRealMkfuba07
prplhz
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Denmark8045 Posts
June 10 2015 19:43 GMT
#1638
boxerfred seems to be wildly flailing right now. i liked the effort earlier but i don't know what's gotten into him now.
http://i.imgur.com/M7t7egx.png
justanothertownie
Profile Joined July 2013
16343 Posts
June 10 2015 19:43 GMT
#1639
On June 11 2015 04:40 fuba wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 11 2015 04:28 justanothertownie wrote:
On June 11 2015 04:26 fuba wrote:
On June 11 2015 04:14 justanothertownie wrote:
That boxerfred post is so remarkably shit that I consider lynching him over fuba.

You're quite a joy to play with.

Not that I think I'm any better to play with, mind you, but for different reasons.



Not sure how to respond to what's been said about me. I have absolutely no idea what chez was doing at all, because it definitely seemed to me as though he was saying that when he flipped, marv would be in trouble. That, along with the comment about millers, made me think he was claiming something (specifically cop). His play that day seemed to be from the perspective of a cop who had a red check on marv. I have a lot of trouble understanding how no one else at least caught glimpses of this.

Actually, didn't someone say something about chez and mad hatters? Like "cut it out with this mad hatter shit" or something? Thought it was prplhz, but I didn't see it in his filter.

Oh, it was mig. So at least one other person saw some sort of claim in chez's play. Guess that means I'm not completely insane.

Well, the hatter thing was obviously because of the vid he posted where he said if he dies marv will also die. However there was no indication whatsoever that chez could be cop ever.

And my thought was that he simply went a step farther. Once chez dies as cop, we will see that he was cop, and lend more proof to his read on marv. Obviously I was incorrect, but the fact that no one else even saw it as a possibility really confuses me.

In any case, I still don't see how it makes me scum. Like, I'm having trouble seeing my play this game from a scum perspective. Am I more likely to think chez is cop if I'm scum? Am I more likely to even lightly defend BF as scum (though that is a read I'll have to reexamine going into D3)?
And given that everyone considers my reasons for reads to be shitty, why wouldn't I just make a shitty fake scumread on someone?

Oh, and while I'm thinking about it, I didn't just take artanis's claim at face value. I thought about it for quite a while. So the only "absolute" thing I've said was about chez. And I still have trouble seeing why he would say/do those things as a VT.

Yes, yes you are more likely to believe people who you know are town are a role and it is also more likely that you defend them.

Explain to me why chez as cop would let himself be lynched when he has a redcheck on marv instead of saying that he has a goddamn redcheck and pushing for a marv lynch.
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
June 10 2015 19:45 GMT
#1640
1. jat does only oneliners, has a huge misread on Artanis which I don't think would come from such an experienced player.
2. jat does a TMI-ish call on NaCl (yamato got hanged for a similar one on artanis)
3. a filter of oneliners is not townish
4. thus he's scummy


There is nothing inherently mafia-ish about posting one-liners. My average word count is lower as town than it is as mafia, and jat plays in at least a kinda similar style to me.

so that's at least part of 1/3/4 out the window

can you explain why it's TMI-ish call on NaCl? I'm not going to read your case again to find it, so just a sentence would be cool
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
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