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On June 05 2015 04:59 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2015 04:55 Tictock wrote:On June 05 2015 04:54 ritoky wrote:On June 05 2015 04:53 Tictock wrote:
Ugh, I agree that Kick is posting too many walls of text that lack content for their size, but I'd really rather lynch someone who is not being a general asset to town.
So to me it is between GG and Choco atm. is SL not an option? why so? I have OGI that I've been asked not to share regarding that. Sorry, it's a weird situation. ....is that OGI reason alignment indicative? i am very confused.....also i know there's shit going on with him in the bans list. if the ban goes through are we guaranteed a replacement instead of a modkill?
I think it's best to ignore the situation till GB weighs in.
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On June 05 2015 05:00 Damdred wrote:
If you think someone is scummy how are they being good for the town... That's nonsense
I don't see his walls of text as scummy like you do. I just don't like them.
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Oh man, did GG forget about the voting thread?
Gah, well I can't waste my vote then.
##Unvote
##Vote: Chocolate
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Ok Damdred let me address why I don't like your case then.
On June 05 2015 04:48 Damdred wrote:
Case on kick start:
Posts are quite large but lack a lot of content that the length of posts shoud curtail.
Ok yes, this is a scumtell. However it also seems consistent enough that it could just be his style of writing. I'd rather give him a chance to start making better posts than lynch him today for this.
Hounds people for reads but when confronted for his own reads he gives only smoke scum read that is rehashed fom others in the thread, sl scum read at this point is an afterthought and feels contrived.
This applies to a lot of people actually. In fact my biggest issue with ritoky is very similar. He hounds me for not liking one post and saying my reads are weak, but when I look at his own reads I think they are some of the more lacking this game.
When asks about a town read gives a weak list post, and when confronted on another read that doesn't make sense he backs off of it completely.
Humm, I should relook at that interaction, that is actually fairly scummy. I didn't look at it that way at first.
Shit fights me with for calling his posts out. Instead of concluding I'm scum from such things he concludes I just don't like him.
Again, I'm relating this to my exchange with ritoky. I came out concluding that we dont like each other, but I'm not really seeing much scum on him.
Talks to me like I'm town and just tunneled on him instead of one of his top scum reads.
Has sheeped thread sentiment almost at every turn.
condensed feelings
I'm not sure I agree with the rest of your points, they aren't bad but ... idk I'm getting the feeling this is similar overreacting to stuff like what happened early in the game with milo.
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I like chocolate even less for that sheep...
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On June 05 2015 05:20 Kickstart wrote:
I like how scum team chocolate and damdred are trying to create chaos with only an hour to go, nice way to try and ensure a mislynch by pulling these stuns with under an hour left.
You really think they are a possible team?
or is this OMGUS?
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On June 05 2015 05:23 ritoky wrote:
fuck me i really need to get this right....templar looks like he is gonna novote and make me pissed for the 2nd game in a row about no-voters...i would really rather not lose 2 town day 1.
Humm? You don't have faith in your vote?
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On June 05 2015 05:25 Damdred wrote:
Ehats the point of concluding someone just doesn't like you if you are scum reading them? It should 100% be that scum os trying to push a mislynch but look how kick is reacting at first.
Damdred just doesn't like me.
Damdred is tunneled.
If he legitimately thinks I'm scum the first thought should be damdred is scum frying to lynch me the firstbtwonreactions are iinfrring I'm being bad town not scum.
Ehh. You might be right. I just think you are both a little tunneled atm.
I don't like seeing my townreads going at it like this...
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On June 05 2015 05:26 scott31337 wrote:
I told him at least twice in our interactions about the voting thread too gosh darn it.
You did. Hell I'd forgotten about it till you said something, so thanks for that.
That is partially why I've been scumming GG anyways kus he's not really reading peoples interactions with him.
But that's probably a moot point now.
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On June 05 2015 05:28 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2015 05:25 Tictock wrote:On June 05 2015 05:23 ritoky wrote:
fuck me i really need to get this right....templar looks like he is gonna novote and make me pissed for the 2nd game in a row about no-voters...i would really rather not lose 2 town day 1. Humm? You don't have faith in your vote? i have lost some faith in chocolate being scum, and i really believe templar is scum. so currently it looks like we are for sure losing 1 town today....i want to make a good choice and not lose 2. the only way i see chocolate being scum right now is if he is scum WITH TEMPLAR because of their thread re-entry. if one was scum and the other wasn't i feel they would push the opposing wagon. and if that is the case, then templar dying will be a free dead scum.
Is it a bad sign that this logic pleases me since I'm reading them both as scum?
GG's vote just seems like it's too hand wavey justified to me. I guess you put a lot more faith into this theory of play than I do, but to each their own on playstyle choice.
Choco has been making similarly bad scumreads and votes. This switch onto Kick seems really scummy to me as well.
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@ Kick
Stay on Chocolate, don't fall into last minuet OMGUS voting
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I don't see Scum doing a play by play of his own death like this...
Kick, why are you like rallying people to vote you?
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On June 05 2015 05:53 ritoky wrote:
i think that if chocolate is mafia, he is likely with templar, so a mafia will die today regardless.
Should we really assume Mod decisions ahead of time though? You are likely right, but why assume?
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On June 05 2015 06:26 scott31337 wrote:
You should've claimed earlier when it was so close. Gosh darn it
100% agree.
I cant believe Damdred & ritoky just got our Jailkeeper lynched D1.
Milo was at least consistent with his read, though he seemed to be rethinking his vote last min. Choco was voting for his life I get that, but it's also a fantastic way to push a ML.
Fidei... I don't even know.
I'm pretty frustrated by that EoD. At least we didn't end up with like 4 Modkills...
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Also welcome to Shendelzare.
Since you are taking over for SL, I give you a weak scum read.
That is all. I'm out for the night but will check in later in Night phase.
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On June 05 2015 06:39 Damdred wrote:
I'm not sure why ritoky and myself should get all the blame? The logical,thing is if you are so scared you are getting lynched claim when there's time to parse the information.
My points had value, he did do questionable,things .
Tick immediately moving to discredit someone who steeped and the leader of the wagon is interesting
Before I head out the door let me respond to this, kus it is pissing me off a little.
First, I'm upset that you guys just got our jailkeep lynched. I stated time and time again that i was against it and tried to go against your push on him.
Maybe you and ritoky aren't scum for starting the wagon on Kick, I get that. However this subtle deflection back to me when I just stated I was about to head out for awhile looks super shitty.
You guys def deserve some blame for that lynch. I wasn't going to scum you for it, but I sure as hell scum you after posting that.
I already thought Choco was scum. Why should I feel any different now?
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So looking back on that EoD...
Such a painful way to end D1. Not only did we lose the only blue role we had but I was literally freaking out that there was about to be a mass wave of Modkills there. I could easily have seen GG and Milo getting Modkilled, and was worried Fidei and possibly even ritoky would be on the receiving end of the same hammer. Rather disappointing to see that actually, people do better at following the rules in newbies games...
I'll get to my views on Damdred here shortly, but first I do want to address something about what Kick did. Kick REALLY needed to have claimed earlier. I get what was going on in his head, he knows that if he claims he'll get NK'd N1 and doesn't want to waste his role. However, claiming and giving town the chance to lynch someone else is the far better move here. Now I don't think Kick believed he would get lynched, hell I still have a hard time believing that wagon took shape so quickly, and that is why he held off his claim. In the future though, Kick, instead of doing that weird countdown timer stuff.. CLAIM! It sucks you were forced to do it, but would have been nice to maybe catch scum in exchange for you being NK.
Ok, now on to Damdred. I looked back in his filter and did see that he was on the line of thought that Kick could have been scum for a decent part of the day. It's mostly just a series of "humm, I don't like this" posts regarding Kick that suddenly turned into a case on him ~2 hours before EoD. I'm actually being generous with ~2 hours, that's when he made this post, but his actualy case on Kick doesn't appear until here an hour before EoD.
For Reference: Posts where Damdred mentions Kick (probably not in order, sorry)
+ Show Spoiler +On June 03 2015 06:27 Damdred wrote:
Let us get right to it.
I would generally just come out with my ritoky read right off the bat but I'm going to hold off here for a few reasons. Need to see more postings at this point.
However I don't get why tick is being so weird about Sl and him tunneling in previous games it just feels a bit fake? Also he mentions other people he's suspicious of? I'm not sure what that is, overall his postings give me a strange feeling.
Kick while I agree with his post it isn't alignment indicative to an extent pre made posts usually aren't.
Moving on I need a henchman to do,my bidding who,will it be On June 04 2015 05:25 Damdred wrote:
So basically almost 24 hours in game you only have a strong opinion that 2 people are town one lean and the rest is null. Meh that post just irks me, it says a lot without actually doing much bah. On June 04 2015 08:02 Damdred wrote:
Chin up ritoky and help me solve the game.
I'm nto sure that KS is scum, I think that the point you brought up is a good one though and I could see scum accidently aligning themselves like that. Sort of like I did in the game where I called vivax town even though we drastically differed on our reads.
Who else do you think is scum? On June 04 2015 10:27 Damdred wrote:
On a more serious note id probably lynch into this group today any questions just ask
kick
templars
chocolate
I'm leaving of fi now because his post was...interesting.
but have to look again tomorrow at a few. On June 05 2015 03:53 Damdred wrote:
Can we lynch ks for voting GG dissapearing and not caring leading up to voe and having no real reads of his own. The nylis read he discarded under pressure and honestly besides shit fighting with me which he called omgus he has 0 follow up at this point or seemed to care that the people he wanted to give reads have given reads or not instead pushing a thread sentiment wagon onto GG On June 03 2015 09:25 Damdred wrote:
Also everyone is demanding more and more reads from him but the main person who,keeps screaming for,more reads gives one leaves thread promises more comes back and doesn't deliver and,nobody talks about it. On June 05 2015 01:41 Damdred wrote:
Kick isn't low hanging fruit, chocolate is borderline depending, template maybe. But going after people who did scummy things isn't alignment indicative as you seem to infer.
not sure why me not wanting to lynch fi because you said it before makes me scum?
Totally a misrepresentation of what's going on in the thread at this point in time. In fact pretty sure I have more wouldn't lynch reads, but that's not the point. The point is that kick was giving everyone hard times about giving reads and not doing so himself and when pressed didn't even answer the questions applied to him. So how does this make me scum?
Not sure why someone ignoring questions getting called on it and only responding when he's pinged out makes me scum rather it makes me someone who cares about if his questions are followed up on.
Not sure what more you want in the first few hours of the game?
None of this makes me scum a majority of it makes me town and you neither state why it males me scum or any conclusion you bring yourself on the matter.
Notice the post there that mentions Kick appears to be absent EoD, and that's a redflag to Damdred? He posted it here and shortly starts to push into Kick. Now maybe that is a red flag to Damdred, but it seems like an odd thing to read into when there is still a few hours left for Kick to show up. I also learned in my last newbie game that not being present EoD is more of a towntell than a scumtell. Town will more often feel like their votes don't mean as much and just leave them where they may (not sure this applies, but I suspect that's the case for Onegu and Nydus). It's more often scum that is sitting around EoD waiting to see what happens. Of course RL stuff can also be good cause for missing EoD as well, so at worst I think not being around EoD is NAI.
So #1 Damdred starts focusing Kick for "not being around"
Now to look at his actual case:
On June 05 2015 04:48 Damdred wrote:
Case on kick start:
Posts are quite large but lack a lot of content that the length of posts shoud curtail.
Hounds people for reads but when confronted for his own reads he gives only smoke scum read that is rehashed fom others in the thread, sl scum read at this point is an afterthought and feels contrived.
When asks about a town read gives a weak list post, and when confronted on another read that doesn't make sense he backs off of it completely.
Shit fights me with for calling his posts out. Instead of concluding I'm scum from such things he concludes I just don't like him.
Talks to me like I'm town and just tunneled on him instead of one of his top scum reads.
Has sheeped thread sentiment almost at every turn.
condensed feelings
I responded to this post EoD already here. Really the only point that's solid here, at least imo, is the stuff about Kicks posting style being kinda bad. Even then though, is that enough to want to lynch people over? I don't think so, but I think VE said it best in this post.
On June 05 2015 21:14 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2015 14:50 scott31337 wrote:
Nydus can you give us a list of your scum to town? You wasted time with the green/red, and I know that takes time to do so, so this won't ask for much.
Using formatting as a means of reading people is akin to throwing fucking rice in the air and using THAT to divine alignments. If that's what you're using to gauge others' alignments, then I really don't think you should be calling people's play bad and dumb, etc.
I also found Damdred's reply to me telling him his case was bad fairly odd...
Ehats the point of concluding someone just doesn't like you if you are scum reading them? It should 100% be that scum os trying to push a mislynch but look how kick is reacting at first.
Damdred just doesn't like me.
Damdred is tunneled.
If he legitimately thinks I'm scum the first thought should be damdred is scum frying to lynch me the firstbtwonreactions are iinfrring I'm being bad town not scum.
Like how was that addressing anything I brought up? Ok granted I wasn't very articulate in my defense of Kick and now i wish I had spent more time on that, but Damdred is just focused on Kicks reactions to him here, and just ignores my attempt to talk some sense into him.
Thus #2: Damdred ignores criticisms of his own case, despite it being no better than others
That point is somewhat subjective, but honestly was there a real solid case at EoD? I don't think anyone really brought a solid case to the table, which makes it easier to get town fighting over scraps.
I'm also not very happy with this being the first real stance Damdred has taken this game. I wasn't the only one to call him out for being pretty "middle of the road" in terms of playstyle. I know Kick called it out as well and there might have been someone else but to be honest I don't have time to reread everything. Anyways, the point here is that Damdred promised that his reads would improve and that by EoD he'd have something more/better. I don't think he actually promised that to us, but it was kinda implied in a few of his posts. Still I think Kick had a good point here
Well I am back, took me a bit to reread through the thread. :waves at Damdred:. Don't like Damdred railing on me at all and I still don't think he has given us what he promised earlier in the day, but I will save that for cycle 2.
Here is Damdred trying to defend his playstyle.
On June 03 2015 10:46 Damdred wrote:
Actually the charges levels against me are meh, I've taken plenty of stances mostly town reads....
You call it middle of the road becauseee....idk haha.
Anyway yeah I'll town read more people later figure out who I want to lynch in... 18 hours probably maybe 30.
On June 03 2015 10:57 Damdred wrote:
Ummmm idk if you know this or not but most wagons up to hour 12 in the cycle (12 hours left before end of day) generally don't get lynched.
Most serious cases are presented and pushed at that point when more information is I'm thread generally.
If you disagree with how I approach early game that's fine but I generally don't put weakass scum reads in the thread lol
Maybe this is me getting lost in a little WIFOM but I suspect Damdred's style is moreso a cover to both hide passive play and give town a false sense of security about him. Remember Damdred was giving mostly townreads out and even stated he found townreads more useful than scumreads. I felt like that was an odd stance to take, but I've never played with him before so I thought maybe there is some value in it. I feel like I just saw the value of it EoD there. He used his "town friendly" position to help draw support to his first real scum read and push it through EoD. Damdred even asks people several times, politely, to give him this lynch...
On June 05 2015 04:34 Damdred wrote:
...im not really tunneled?
I just think your scummy and I want my lynch
#3: Damdred focuses giving townreads to gain support and weight to his future reads.
Last point I'd like to make here. I already mentioned how Damdred started scumming Kick when he believed Kick was going to be missing EoD. This is really scummy behavior to me, it's akin to kicking a man when he is down. Targeting people who aren't around to defend themselves is a great scum move to build a case long before anyone is likely to start questioning it. Thankfully Kick showed up fairly soon after but the resulting discussion ended up being more of a shit-show between the two which didn't help Kick's position at all. Damdred calling Kick tunneled is ironic when Damdred himself appears to be very much so after Kicks blood.
Damdred did the same thing to me after EoD, AFTER I had stated I'd likely not be around for much of Night phase. He starts scumming me for blaming him for the lynch. Ok, maybe I had a bad reaction to EoD and calling out the people who voted for Kick looks scummy and wasn't the best thought out post of mine. At the same time though, we SHOULD look at the people who were on that wagon. As far as I can tell Milo is the only one who voted Kick who is definitely Town, after all he was the only person who at least had the sense to hop the wagon when Kick claimed.+ Show Spoiler + Fact I agree with ritoky, Milo is like 100% town, no way does Scum see a claim like that and try to change their vote at the risk of getting mod killed.
Thus my last point #4: Damdred's scum reads fall on players who are not present in the thread
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From everything I looked at I def think Damdred is scum. However I do want to make a couple points semi in his favor, really I just want to remind people of some of the bad reasons to scum him atm. If Damdred is scum I want to make sure we are scumming him for the right reasons.
Being wrong =/= Mafia
Starting a Wagon =/= Mafia
A person of either alignment can do those things. It is more important to look at HOW they go about those things if you think a wagon is suspect.
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Looks like not much has happened since i left thread anyways.
Just see GG chanting my name and Fidei looking like he mighta gotten lost in WIFOM over there.
I was tempted to try and look at the votes and whatnot, but it seems like a silly thing to do when no scum got lynched. Either I'm right about scum pushing for that lynch or they just had a grand old time sitting around watching town...
Not sure if we should look at the outlier votes or not. There's not much to go on for either Nydus or Onegu...
I'll prob just leave things at this case on Damdred for now, I'm really tempted to look at him and Choco being a possible team now though... I felt like I mighta noticed something when digging through his filter, but I could also just be tunneled and reacting to what Kick said EoD. I'll get back to that thought if it's still pertinent D2.
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On June 05 2015 23:15 Fidei86 wrote:
Hey TT - what is WIFOM? I'm struggling with some of the acronyms here..
It stands for Wine In Front Of Me, a reffernce to The Princess Bride in this scene.
It applies to situations where you find yourself stuck in circular logic.
Prob easiest to just give you this link as well.
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On June 05 2015 23:19 NydusHerMain wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2015 23:15 Fidei86 wrote:
Hey TT - what is WIFOM? I'm struggling with some of the acronyms here.. "I would never do that as mafia"
If your trying to say it's a dumbtell... maybe
Pretty obv a newb question too so w/e
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EPT
