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hurr durr ok.
So yeah anyway I don't think the mafia would be especially scared of a vig enough to go out of their way to lynch one over a non-vig townie. They can just rb a vig who's threatening to shoot mafia or let the singleton shot go through. So I think the mafia's agenda for eod1 would absolutely have been "do whatever makes you look cleanest."
And I think there's plenty of room for mafia!Superbia to appear to want to lynch mafia!LightningStrike here. I made this point when I initially argued Superbia was mafia - for all his talk of wanting to lynch LS he never actually voted for LS. You can see how quickly the wagon formed on Bill Murray near the end. LS had 3 votes on him for quite some time. How hard would it have been for Superbia to get LS lynched if he wanted it? His vote makes 4 and leaves LS as the biggest counterwagon to either vig train by far.
Just notice how he's basically begging HF to vote for LightningStrike instead of Bill Murray, but then he never actually puts his own vote down on LS to force HF and company to vote LS to get a counterwagon to either vig.
So while it's pretty reasonable analysis, Breshke, I end up disagreeing with the main conclusions from it.
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I had another thought on the masons but I'm gonna (literally) sleep on it and maybe post it at EON.
Honestly right now, it's kinda hard to find reason to reassess this lynch list:
1. Superbia
2. ritoky
3. Alakaslam
4. Palmar
when there's basically no activity to speak of from the entire list. ritoky maybe but Superbia bailed on the game, Slam bailed on the game, Palmar is still floating around but might as well have bailed on the game...
It's kinda like when you're playing MTG and it's time to sideboard and you have all these sweet cards you wanna board in, but you're like, "WTF do I board out for this matchup?" I could start writing up reasons why Toad fake-cc'd Vivax or Onegu is secret mafia with whoever he declares as his mason partner, but why change anything when all 4 of my suspects make a lot of sense, none of them are doing anything to change my mind and only one of them (ritoky) even appears to care to?
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On March 24 2015 17:35 Toadesstern wrote:
the entire point about why mafia would want a vig dead was based on people saying there has to be mafia between Vivax and Toad during d1/n1 to begin with.
If anything I find it quite likely that mafia might even want to get BM over any of the vigs hoping for either a reapeat of d1 that just means a shitton of chaos and will end up as Toad vs Vivax lynch or for the vigs to shoot each other during n1.
If both vigs are town that is highly beneficial for mafia.
Agree with the idea that they want to keep the vigs around as ML bait d2/d3. That seemed to be a pretty major sentiment behind why people didn't like the Bill Murray wagon
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Sounds like a plan. I don't think I have much to add right now anyway. Later man!
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Fecal can wait a bit.
I feel like there's a good chance cop/vig/vig/mason/mason is too townsided still. But I refuse to worry about this until Onegu claims his masonbro.
Thanks for starting to play Palmar. Idk if you saw my lynch list but you're fourth behind Superbia, ritoky and Alakaslam. Who should be replacing you on that list and who doesn't belong on the list besides you?
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On March 25 2015 01:16 Vivax wrote:
He's scum cause that case on LS isn't natural in my opinion. It's the sort of case one would make with all the gimmick for the distancing.
maybe elaborate on this?
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On March 25 2015 01:33 Palmar wrote:
Do you agree with Eden's list artanis? Do you think Superbia is the best lynch tomorrow?
his town list? ya pretty much
Superbia best lynch tomorrow? ya pretty much
I could see ritoky but I am trying to be fair-minded and give him time to prove himself independent of his slot. It's not the optimal path to scumhunting in this situation (since all the things making me want to lynch ray still apply) but I think it's better for the game to give him the opportunity to defend himself on his terms instead of on ray's.
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On March 25 2015 01:34 Palmar wrote:
Also at what point did we drop SL and Damdred as mafia candidates. I remember being very much okay with killing both of them.
since SL started trying and Damdred dropped mondo analysis bombs
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On March 25 2015 01:39 Trfel wrote:
Pending his mason claim, I currently want to lynch Onegu the most.
I'm actually not really sold on a Superbia lynch. When I look at his filter, it seems pretty good to me. It seems better than his play in Mini Mafia Down Under 2 (though that game probably isn't very representative of his skill), so I'm not confident that he is mafia yet.
Why are people scumreading Superbia? (quotes are perfectly fine)
On March 22 2015 14:46 Eden1892 wrote:Superbia is mafia because...- He mad salty y'all. Sometimes in the thread he just goes on a spastic raging hissy fit. With Superbia, being angry for no reason is generally mafia-indicative (c.f. Imperial Mafia).
- His "interactions" with LightningStrike are suspicious. I put that in quotes for a reason; there's not really interaction. They talk past each other. Superbia "scumreads" LS for inactivity/lurking a couple of times but then doesn't really push him much. He even asks LS a pretty good question about LS's bad question to me... and then does nothing with it. He also repeatedly whines for an LS wagon to start, but as soon as one happens he's nowhere to be seen; in fact he never votes for LS at all despite clearly "suspecting" him for quite some time. Meanwhile LS townreads Superbia for a fluff reason in his big reads list and then when given the opportunity to say something about Superbia after my questioning... doesn't.
- I still think my questioning Superbia about the Damdred/sicklucker thing was meaningful. I can't place why it is and I probably never will unless I'm right about him and he bothers to tell me postgame. But the discrepancy in his conclusion there kinda felt like he was trying to find reasons to be suspicious of both players even though his own logic basically required him to be suspicious only of one.
Add in the fact that he just basically stopped caring about the game altogether and here we are.
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On March 25 2015 01:45 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Also T2 a shit. At least play a reasonable format like modern.
if I wanted to play Solitaire I've got it on my computer for free
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I don't really agree with any of those three reads lol
How is somebody posting off-topic stuff in the game after not being around for a while, promising to catch up and then not delivering townie? I think it doesn't mean anything for his alignment
Also don't think FF's case on LS is suspicious unless it's about a bunch of shit that isn't true. Which reminds me I need to reread it to determine if it's about a bunch of shit that isn't true lol. My recollection is that it was a pretty solid case. And I feel like any substandard pushing it later is likely just to be non-alignment-indicative laziness, but that's obviously debatable.
And I guess Artanis's post on FF is suspicious in isolation, but I really like his body of work so I don't really care :o
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On March 25 2015 02:04 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 02:01 Eden1892 wrote:
I don't really agree with any of those three reads lol
How is somebody posting off-topic stuff in the game after not being around for a while, promising to catch up and then not delivering townie? I think it doesn't mean anything for his alignment
Also don't think FF's case on LS is suspicious unless it's about a bunch of shit that isn't true. Which reminds me I need to reread it to determine if it's about a bunch of shit that isn't true lol. My recollection is that it was a pretty solid case. And I feel like any substandard pushing it later is likely just to be non-alignment-indicative laziness, but that's obviously debatable.
And I guess Artanis's post on FF is suspicious in isolation, but I really like his body of work so I don't really care :o That's why I realized LS is scum from one post on D1 and you didn't. A scum who comes back to the thread after a long posting pause is going to feel under pressure to deliver something that makes him look like he's doing something useful.
Uh scuse me I knew something was off about him from his intro. Just didn't think it was enough to lynch him
More importantly how is LS at all analogous here? Maybe Superbia felt pressured but didn't know what to say and just didn't say anything. Maybe he had a lot to catch up on. (He did.) There really is no reason to assume Superbia is town from that
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On March 25 2015 04:23 ritoky wrote:
can someone discuss the specifics of onegu's mason claim with me? or tell me which page it is on?
did he make it under pressure from votes? was everyone okay with him not outing his partner? who wasn't? why? etc.
Onegu claimed Groot (under no pressure to do so), Holyflare pretended to be Onegu's mason partner. We kinda just rolled with it until Holyflare flipped VT at the start of d2. Then Onegu claimed your slot was his partner, ray rebuffed this and stuck to his tracker claim. Onegu said he would claim his mason partner tonight after the deadline for submitting night actions.
That's the play-by-play for it. I don't remember specific reactions and I care to look in this monstrosity of a thread for them about as much as you do 
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If Fecalfeast is mafia for his behavior surrounding LS then Superbia is even more mafia. Superbia just whined at people near EOD about lynching LS while never placing a vote down for him.
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Vivax, why are you locking in on Fecalfeast as mafia here for his push on LightningStrike and not giving the same level of attention to Superbia's push? I think Superbia's push is clearly more suspicious out of the two. I understand you TR'd Superbia earlier for his off-topic posting when he returned to the thread, but I don't feel like it's terribly difficult to find similar examples for Fecalfeast, and so I'm not sure why you seem to be disregarding Superbia's push here...
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On March 25 2015 05:25 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 05:16 Eden1892 wrote:
Vivax, why are you locking in on Fecalfeast as mafia here for his push on LightningStrike and not giving the same level of attention to Superbia's push? I think Superbia's push is clearly more suspicious out of the two. I understand you TR'd Superbia earlier for his off-topic posting when he returned to the thread, but I don't feel like it's terribly difficult to find similar examples for Fecalfeast, and so I'm not sure why you seem to be disregarding Superbia's push here... Expand on superbias push being suspicious? And what makes you TR FF at all? I don't understand why you get the feeling of having to side with FF here unless you got a damn good reason to TR him. Your whole argument is "why you scumreading FF but not superbia", it just sounds like whining.
![[image loading]](http://www.tigerdroppings.com/Images/Icons/IconLOL.gif) you should work on your tone reading man.
Superbia's push is suspicious because he keeps harping on LightningStrike all of day 1, but never votes for LS. Look at how he bugs Holyflare about "strongarming a BM lynch" and says he's "asked multiple times about an SL or LS wagon." He pouts at HF saying it's HF's fault if BM flips town. All through this time he never actually tries to convince anybody to vote LS and never votes LS himself. That's hella suspect because it shows that for all his appearances he's not actually invested in getting his mafia reads lynched.
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On March 25 2015 05:23 Damdred wrote:
I'm not so sure that you guy read ff latest games
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i'm not gonna lie, i've been wondering where you've been recently lol
but it is a little weird how all the people in my lynch pile came out of the woodwork and started chirping about you
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On March 25 2015 05:49 Superbia wrote:
Eden, my first priority during EoD1 was to ensure that both vigi claims survived the lynch. My preference was to go on SL or LS, but (at that point, due to mason claim) confirmed town HF was looking at BM. I tried to engage with HF regarding the subject of the lynch multiple times, but it never happened. It was abundantly clear what my lynch preference was EoD, and it is also rather clear that if I had made a fuss about the lynch, the wagons would be split and Vivax would've been lynched.
You had 3 votes on LightningStrike at the time compared to 3 for Bill Murray. If you had done literally any degree of actual pushing to get LS lynched instead of just saying "why not LS why not LS?" (pro tip this isn't engagement this is just harassing) you probably get that wagon. I would have moved to it if you'd made any case at all. It's the BM wagon that threatened to split the vote, not the LS one.
Your lynch preference was "not-the-vigs," you kept talking about lynching LightningStrike, LightningStrike was a viable wagon, but you never vote LS and you allow the BM wagon to take over while grumbling about it instead of making a case on your scumread.
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EPT
