EPTNewbie Student Mafia VI
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On February 23 2015 14:50 Probulous wrote: Well this is weird, one of my last games was with you (in June 2012!) Been a hell of long time between drinks. BH, when are we expecting the game to start? Hehe ya, I never forget a face. I think you were SK in one of my first two games as well. Funny how we sorta get pulled back to this site at the same time. Good luck to you this game  Hopefully the rust gets knocked off nice and quick for both of us. | ||
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On February 23 2015 23:48 marvellosity wrote: Snarfs and Probulous in this thread?! Gosh. Hi marv! | ||
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3) Half the Sky 4) sicklucker 5) Tronak 7) _Tormented_ 9) The Shining 10) Eden1892 12) Damdred I'm curious who the new new players are and how much experience each of the listed people has. Should help me get an idea of what to expect as far as town/mafia capabilities are concerned. | ||
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On February 24 2015 09:01 yamato77 wrote: snarfs you were mafia in two of my best games ever how do you feel about that? To be honest, I don't remember which games they were... sorry  | ||
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On February 24 2015 09:04 yamato77 wrote: RIP my ego haha, mind pointing them out so I can have a skim? | ||
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On February 24 2015 09:05 Snarfs wrote: haha, mind pointing them out so I can have a skim? Nvmd found them. I assume you're referring to Nomination and This Town. On February 24 2015 09:07 _Tormented_ wrote: @Snarfs First time on this forum, but I have played Mafia games before. I was invited by Damdred. Okay, great. Do you prefer to play as mafia or town? | ||
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On February 24 2015 09:11 Probulous wrote: Check the Office Mini Mafia, some those guys (Sicklucker, Eden1892) were in that game (still ongoing). PM game but is recent. Okay, I see some other games with some of these other guys as well. And Tronak said already that it's his/her first mafia game ever so it looks like I'm covered in this regard, no need to continue down the rabbit hole. Is this the point where someone proposes an RNG lynch? | ||
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On February 24 2015 09:49 Probulous wrote: From my experience, whilst voting patterns and lynching provides useful information, it is posting motivation and behaviour patterns that out scum. Thus the more we can get people to post, especially around who they think the mafia are and why, the more chance we have of lynching scum. This can start from day 1. With that in mind ##Vote WaveofShadow Where you at? Why are you voting WaveOfShadow? | ||
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On February 24 2015 10:51 Probulous wrote: A while. I signed up with the wings of liberty release. Maybe we should keep this stuff out of the thread. It's already getting long and full of shit. Partially my fault, will do better. @Snarfs, you still around? Been reading your old games and damn son you got some skills. I still want your thoughts on what's going on, particularly this Yamato, Artanis business. @Artanis, can you stop shitting up the thread with your fluff? Between you and Yamato it's going o be impossible to keep track of what's going on. Signed, grumpy old man. Yea, I'm still here. Just wrapping up some work before heading home. Yamato/Artanis looks like two old friends having a good joke back and forth. Not really alignment indicative, imo. Don't worry, I'll let you know if anything sticks out to me. And for someone who was once in the running for "Best player never to win a game" claiming I got some skills is a nice compliment  | ||
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On February 24 2015 11:18 Probulous wrote: ROFL, you're too kind, or an asshole, I can't decide Haha my friends would assure you both, but that seems slightly off-topic so let's hold that discussion there  | ||
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On February 24 2015 11:19 yamato77 wrote: ok artanis, you're off the hook for now ##unvote ##vote: _tormented_ Reasons please? | ||
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In regards to Tormented, I think he's more likely mafia than some others who have been posting. His posts don't show any real drive to find mafia. I would really like more from Damdred on Tormented this game as they've played together in the past. Same goes for The Shining. Who now that I mention looks pretty terrible having shown up at the beginning of the game and just disappeared when no one acknowledged him. I would lynch The Shining pretty happily for that. sicklucker has put in a poor performance so far as well, really don't like people showing up with a few comments then disappearing without commenting on the game at all, gets my radar going, he's up there with Shining. Also, HtS... Hmm not sure. She's at least putting thoughts on who is mafia in the thread with some of her reasoning. Seemingly unprovoked as well (top of page 10 link). I do see what Damdred is saying about what I like to call "wishy washy" reads. They lack substance. Probulous, the difficulty I have with your case is that we haven't had enough time to see whether Damdred's follow up on HtS exists or not. I think it's great that your pointing out his viewpoints and it's something we need to keep aware of but I can't tell from those posts whether he has dropped his read on HtS or Eden. But I think he's been towny as mentioned above. I look forward to seeing if his comments are as insightful as he claims they will be. | ||
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Thoughts on the Shining and sicklucker's entrance so far? Is this something town does these days? | ||
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On February 24 2015 15:10 yamato77 wrote: willing to give the lurkers time wave, what do you think about what I posted? Fair enough. I know it's changing the subject a bit, but what do you think of artanis? Just going through filters. | ||
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On February 24 2015 15:15 WaveofShadow wrote: What the fuck? Only Prob's monster post, but no, nobody was suspicious lol That was after. | ||
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On February 24 2015 15:18 WaveofShadow wrote: That was after what? He said he was going to bed, presumably left, Probs posted a case, Damdred came back to talk about it. I'm not following why either mafia or town doesn't come back just to check for stuff. Ah okay. My reasoning that it was more likely town to come back and check than mafia is that mafia like excuses to not put their reads in the thread. | ||
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On February 24 2015 17:37 Node wrote: This was really early in the game, so take it with a grain of salt, but I'd like to point out that this is actually really scummy. Beyond an RNG lynch being an awful idea for reasons already stated, there's also bit of a deflection here -- Snarfs isn't going to propose a lynch, "someone" is. Nevermind that he's the first one to actually bring it up. Snarfs also just posted a wall of text without actually saying much of anything. Yeah, there are some reads in there, but considering there are a couple of people that he'd lynch "pretty happily", there's nothing concrete. Just some feels without conclusions and a distinct lack of an actual case or vote. Based on that, I'm going to park at ##Vote: Snarfs for now. I was just throwing out some conversation starters. Same with asking new players for their experience, hence why I threw a bunch of players who also have plenty of TL games under their belt up. That's also why I didn't continue the discussion once we started talking about real things. Tronak I hope that answers your question as well. As for my willingness to follow Yamato against Tormented, let's remember there are 10 town and 3 mafia. My opinion is that of the people talking last night when the game started, maybe only 1 will actually turn out to be mafia, posssssssibly 2, but we need more posts to determine that. Tormented is a better candidate than Damdred, imo. Node, I would appreciate it if you could comment on more in the thread. What do YOU think of HtS for instance? Or the case on Tormented? Or artanis' case timing based on the alignment you think Tormented may be? As for lacking substance, while it's easy to reply with a quote on a tablet (ie this one), it is not easy to cut and paste quotes everywhere. I went to exceptional effort to just post one link . I can play on my PC if it will help town for me to provide more quotes.Now I do need to head into work so I will be reading on my phone but I won't be posting until I get in so feel free to ask more, just expect a delayed response. | ||
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1. He ignored the thread and focused entirely on a mafia heuristic that can apply to town players as well 2. He's being quite hypocritical when it comes to his stance on what mafia do | ||
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That last point I posted makes me lean mafia if I had to choose. | ||
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Node, there's a pretty good reason I haven't said anything else on The Shining or sicklucker... One thing I'm not doing is throwing my vote around. Just observing and clarifying. Artanis, I think you're suspicious. That's why I'm asking other people their opinion on you. I think you said a lot of nothing yesterday before leaving and that your case on Tormented is not adding more than a single line could, but it conveniently fills lots of space nicely. | ||
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On February 25 2015 02:55 Snarfs wrote: Once I get to work I'll probably dig through some of Node's recent games. I don't know much about his play except that he's been around for awhile. Following up a bit, I'm less convinced that Node's opener indicates he is mafia. Keep in mind these were games from ~2.5 years ago, but if he hasn't played mafia in between then there's no indication that he would have changed so it's all I've got to go on. From Death Note mafia (Node as town detective): + Show Spoiler + On September 01 2012 09:19 Node wrote: I'm going to vote for BlackMamba. Here's why: This is such an incredibly wrong and scummy statement that it's unbelievable. Think about what it means for just a second. Mamba is saying that going out of your way to establish your townieness is unnecessary -- even scummy. It's even one of the first rules in Ver's guide: establish your own innocence in order to create a good atmospere and make it easier to find scum. (forgive me for not citing it directly at this moment; my resources are limited) Now, why would he want to enforce this? Only scum could possibly want to establish an atmosphere where showing your innocence is a bad thing. There's also the insinuation that claiming self-aware miller is a poor choice, the questionable case against Hapa (dismissed with an "I wasn't-really-trying" excuse), and the statement that voting for someone doing as little as Palmar would actually be a bad idea. All of this comes together to show somebody that isn't trying to establish a pro-town atmosphere, is pushing the wrong targets, and is definitely scum. ##vote BlackMamba24 What I read here is a very pressure-oriented tactic. It feels very similar to how he opened up against me. He focuses in on a single player and doesn't waver at all in his assertion that this player must be mafia because of a single thing they said. He also doesn't drop any town reads. From Liquid City mafia (Node as mafia goon): + Show Spoiler + On October 01 2012 17:40 Node wrote: I don't think Shady Sands is scum -- at least, not given what we've seen so far. His "trolling" antics were silly, but they weren't scummy. If he were scum, I don't think he would've dropped the trolling pretext so quickly, and I certainly don't think he would be willing to reappear and start pushing targets. Now, kush on the other hand has been talking a lot about absolutely nothing. Seeing as he considers his vote on Shady absolutely inconsequential so far ("My vote for Shady had nothing to do with a scumread of any sort"), he's sure spent an awful lot of time discussing it. Weirdly enough, he justifies his current vote by saying he doesn't have any scum reads, yet has also thrown a few FoS's around. So, we see his vote that doesn't matter (yet) on someone he doesn't care about, instead of actually pushing the rather perfunctory cases he's made so far, possibly just so he can look like he's actually contributing. So, I'll actually put my vote where my mouth is. ##vote kushm4sta Bolded for emphasis. This is pretty much exactly how Coagulation plays every game. If he's town, in a day or two he'll come up with a handful of proper scum reads to tunnel for the rest of the game, about half of which will be correct. Contrast this with Node's opener as mafia. Here he's making sure to comment on something else going on in the thread. He's dropping town reads to fit in. "Hmm Shady Sands is probably not scum. He's silly but not scummy... hmm maybe we can look at someone else and here's a decent reason why." And then he continues to comment on some other pieces of information. My opinion of Node based on these openings is that he's more likely town than mafia. | ||
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On February 25 2015 11:33 Probulous wrote: "Snarfs has nothing to lose by "concluding" that I'm town if he is mafia, so my vote remains unchanged" If he concluded you were mafia would that change things? I agree we need to see more from him. Hi! I think the main premiss in your case against Damdred is flawed. Town isn't the team that needs to make up cases in order to win the game. | ||
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On February 25 2015 11:43 Probulous wrote: Who said anything about "making up" cases? How exactly is soft-pushing people helpful? It gives us insight into his thought process as the game goes on, so if we see it shift suddenly without reason we can nail him for it. | ||
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On February 25 2015 11:49 Probulous wrote: I don't follow. If he suddenly posts a fantastic case or if he changes target? More like if he says x is scum for y but later mafia player z was also doing y and we realize after the flip that Damdred didn't seem to give a crap. I apologize for my short replies, I'm just waiting for the bus home from work and it's very cold out. I'll have more when I'm home. | ||
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Have a look at a few of his posts. FIRST: His waffling about Damdred. "Now, I want to make it clear that I don't think you're scum. Yet." + Show Spoiler + On February 25 2015 01:44 Node wrote: OMGUS harder, why don't you? It's a little annoying how one of the default responses to criticism is "did you even READ?" I read your filter. You've quoted none of the people you say are suspicious, you haven't engaged any of them directly, and you're straight. A key tell for a mafia is indecisiveness, and what people are picking up on isn't that you're backing off on your reads, it's that they were barely there to begin with. It's as if they were practically set up just to be backed off of later, or inconsequential enough that you wouldn't have to follow through. Here's what I'm talking about: Now, I want to make it clear that I don't think you're scum. Yet. (a blatant OMGUS isn't helping) But I do think your posts have done little more than gum up the thread. It's one thing to call my post "interesting" and start to get people thinking about me. It's another to actually say what I did was scummy and why. SECOND: In the following post, he completely misrepresents Tronak, then says he just has a null read on him but if he doesn't do anything he's scum. "Overall, I don't have a read on Tronak yet, but that's because he hasn't actually said anything. I'm willing to cut him some slack for being totally new, but if he doesn't step it up soon and get some posts that go above sounding desperate to contribute, I'm going to get a lot more suspicious." + Show Spoiler + On February 25 2015 07:12 Node wrote: We might deal with it by lynching you. Can we not turn this into a spamfest? Seriously, I don't have the time to deal with hundreds of pointless posts a day. And speaking of pointless posts, let's have a quick gander at what Tronak has had to say so far. "Here's a bunch of things that have happened so far. Some of these people might be scum, but they all feel like town." "Here's what Node has done. He might be town, but he might also be mafia." Overall, I don't have a read on Tronak yet, but that's because he hasn't actually said anything. I'm willing to cut him some slack for being totally new, but if he doesn't step it up soon and get some posts that go above sounding desperate to contribute, I'm going to get a lot more suspicious. This right here is the kind of thing I like to see. (and not just because it concludes I'm town) Node's summary of Tronak's list is the following: "Here's a bunch of things that have happened so far. Some of these people might be scum, but they all feel like town." Here's what Tronak actually says: myself, yamato, and artanis feel scummy I believe Node is purposely trying to shed Tronak in a poor light so that he can justify a lynch on him should the sentiment sway that way. THIRD: This is the post that turned me back around after my attempt at looking at his previous games. He's talking about me, and keep in mind I know I'm town, but he shouldn't. If Node was town, how does he go from "this guy is my number 1 mafia read" to "this guy's actions could completely be explained by mafia, but if I see more of it I might consider him town"? His actual quote: "Snarfs has nothing to lose by "concluding" that I'm town if he is mafia, so my vote remains unchanged. But I like to see actual analysis, and more of it on other people is likely to sway me." + Show Spoiler + On February 25 2015 11:16 Node wrote: Snarfs has nothing to lose by "concluding" that I'm town if he is mafia, so my vote remains unchanged. But I like to see actual analysis, and more of it on other people is likely to sway me. None of this makes sense to me from a town perspective. My only explanation is that he's mafia. ##Vote: Node | ||
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On February 26 2015 02:00 Damdred wrote: can you explain your read progression on Node better. Hours before you called him mafia you called him town and everything you called him mafia for existed when you called him town and you supposedly read his filter the first time as well. So what changed? Sure. I thought his entrance was scummy. I mentioned a couple of reasons why, namely that he seemed to ignore everything else going on in the thread and that he was being hypocritical with his push of you despite calling me scum for something similar. However, I thought to myself, well, who's more likely to be hypocritical, town or scum? My answer was town but I wanted to double check so I decided to look up Node's meta to see if he would show similar signs as town or mafia. I read some similar entrances as both town and mafia, but thought that in general it felt slightly more towny that he would ignore the rest of the thread, so decided to drop it and make that post saying why I thought he was town. So as I was looking at other people, I was watching his conversation with Prob as well. And Node reiterates to someone (Kelsier maybe?) that I'm still his biggest scum read, then follows up by saying to Prob that my conclusion that he's town doesn't change his opinion of me at all. However, if I post more like that he could be swayed. I thought that was odd, so I tried to reread it from Node's point of view. I tried to put myself as a "town Node" and follow that thought process. When I couldn't, I concluded that he must be mafia and got really excited to tell you guys. | ||
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On February 26 2015 02:03 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I'm not sure, I haven't looked at you attentively yet. Now I'm actually leaving. Blah. I'd lynch artanis as well. His Yamato Tormented thing also makes little sense. Yamato makes a case against Tormented. Artanis agrees. Artanis thinks Yamato is playing suspiciously (fine), but when asked to give more reads his only reads are Yamato and tormented both as scum, which logically makes no sense. Then people start suspecting me and he doesn't even bother to look attentively? | ||
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On February 26 2015 02:26 KelsierSC wrote: Well like if someone calls you mafia, for a reason you dislke. Then calls you town for a reason that isn't concrete you are likely to remain skeptical of them. I mean I can see a town node perspective But why would I be town just for posting more analysis that he thinks isn't alignment indicative? | ||
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On February 26 2015 02:29 KelsierSC wrote: Artanis 's point is that yamatos retraction from torment is unreasonable and possibly Yamato was soft pushing on torment to create seperation between them. Hmm that makes more sense. I'm still annoyed he didn't try to analyse me at all given the last 12 hours or so. | ||
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Clearly i've been gone too long | ||
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On February 26 2015 02:35 KelsierSC wrote: Its hard to analyse everyone in the game and go back over them etc. Assuming node isn't a lynch target..where would you vote. You can vote me if you want a free town read from SL But that's as much use as.a third tit Probably Tormented. I mean, if no one else reads artanis as scum then I'm probably wrong about that as well. And I did think his response to my case was forced. | ||
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On February 26 2015 02:39 Damdred wrote: Why was his response to your case forced? He went against the grain instead of sheeping or trying to pocket you. Do you think that's more likely to come from town or mafia? My phones dying but he just didn't even seem to consider my points. If I had to pick one of those three Kels it's be you. | ||
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On February 26 2015 03:28 Damdred wrote: I stopped pushing it for two seconds waiting on hts to do stuff then kel replaced in theris a bit of a difference I think. I didn't write a case exactly, and after I said I would back off I still wrote why I think they are scum and pressured kel and eden. Here we have, someone go I think this person is mafia! A few hours later they give a meta post explaining why they were wrong and they are now town. However you have pro I think it was say this wasn't the snarf he remembers and he would of went for the throat. Directly after this he comes up with a hard scum read on node when everything he scum read that person for had already happened in the thread before he made the town read. Kind of embarassing to admit since it (the idea, not the read) seems terrible now, but I thought it'd be really cool if Prob said that and then I could come in and drop a sick scumread and nail someone and everyone would lynch him and I'd be crowned in glory. Prob would be all "yeaaaaaaa" and I'd be all "that's right boys, still got it". So I put my best case together which happened to be Node at the time and I posted it. Also, not everything had already happened. My third point, which I've tried to make clear I feel is the strongest point, had not happened yet when I gave him a town read. He then under light pressure and no push to get people to consier node as mafia says hes been gone to long drops it. Says artanis is scummy, drops it after nobody agrees, moves on to say he would lynch tormented. Then votes kel a few seconds later for hts being wishy washy. A lot of people came into the thread between last night and this morning and essentially either ignored the case or implied it was bad. Not a single person thought I had a single good point. Why would I try to push that? Kel demanded I vote him, sl or yamato. I think Kel is the most likely scum so fuck it, why not? And I would vote Tormented if he was up for debate, but I actually agree with Kel that we should be deciding on a lynch at this point, not adding more people into the equation. Its a totally different thing | ||
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On February 26 2015 04:47 KelsierSC wrote: Seriously does no one do cryptic crosswords. That makes me sad Wave said he did On February 26 2015 00:44 WaveofShadow wrote: Shits really hard. I've tried. You have to know all those tricks and what keywords to look for going in. | ||
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On February 26 2015 04:54 Eden1892 wrote: I kinda get this Yoda Zen sense that Artanis might be mafia but I'm not even entertaining it seriously unless/until Wave flips scum. Eden, can you explain this to me please? | ||
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All that seems way more scummy than anything I've done. | ||
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On February 26 2015 06:01 Eden1892 wrote: I'd rather not tbh, not a lot of time and it's weak. The gist of it is that Artanis was pretty clearly steering the lynch toward yamato and away from Wave right as I was starting to feel like Wave was the right lynch of the two, and it wasn't convincing. But it's BS unflipped associations until Wave flips scum so I didn't want to waste time on it. Will you lynch Wave with me today? Probably but I'd rather lynch artanis. | ||
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On February 26 2015 06:04 yamato77 wrote: I mean, look at this stuff. "you have my sword!!!1!1!" yet he doesn't vote, and follows it up by asking a puffball question. ugh. /shrug. I was feeling the Tormented lynch, I agreed with everything you said when you first laid out a case. Who cares if I voted or not, I made it clear I agreed with you. | ||
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On February 26 2015 06:06 KelsierSC wrote: snarf do you have a strong scum read? artanis right now is my strongest read. Take it for what you will. I thought his attack on Tormented was an identical rehash of what both myself and yamato said at pretty much the same time. I asked people about him and he called me out for asking people about him, but then never bothered to check my filter or try to determine my alignment. | ||
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On February 26 2015 06:07 Eden1892 wrote: ...ok, that's actually pretty sensible. I don't agree with your reading him as insincere though. Call me a sucker I guess but I really don't see what he's done that is improbably town. If we just accept that he's not the best townie by TL mafia standards then most of this pretty much disappears tbh. I really need you to tell me why you're so sure Wave is town though before I can consider going anywhere else today. @Snarfs lol no I'm probably not lynching Artanis today. I'm not all that suspicious of him and I don't think there's any traction for that. I really think it has to be Wave I got excited when both yamato and I said the same thing about Tormented at the same time. Hence the sword comment. | ||
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On February 26 2015 06:10 KelsierSC wrote: Didn't you say you wanted to lynch tormented though when I asked you though? Probably. I still do want to lynch Tormented. And yes, I get that probably him and artanis are not scum together. But I don't know which one is. At this point, with artanis admitting to not even trying to read me, I'd rather lynch artanis. | ||
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On February 26 2015 06:15 yamato77 wrote: Really doesn't mean much tbh I have meta reasons but I don't feel like quoting all the stuff I read from his previous games. He's playing how he plays as mafia. As town he's much more direct. lol. I've changed in 2 years, I'll give you that. | ||
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On February 26 2015 06:23 Eden1892 wrote: Now you sound like you're agreeing with yamato's read that your tone/etc. is different from your past town games. Without giving a big life spiel or anything, how would you say you changed such that your game is impacted this way? I'm having a lot more fun this game. I'm way more relaxed than I would have been as town OR mafia. Sure, maybe it makes me a worse town player, but at least I don't want to shoot myself every time I'm wrong about something. | ||
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##Vote: artanis[xp] At least my vote's on someone I think is mafia. I don't like Wave, yamato, or Kelsier as lynches. They've been some of the most active people in the thread for the last 24 hours. Plus I was townreading Wave and yamato early on. Kelsier has been a lot better today than a lot of other people, which is unfortunate if he's mafia, but completely town's own fault. I don't know why sicklucker town read me but I don't think it makes him mafia. He was super nonchalant about it, like I believed he believed it. Especially since it was for... not the best reasoning. I think mafia would try to provide a reason. I've followed Eden's thought process just fine and she/he has no real reason to not lynch me. The Shining is playing like she/he just finished reading Ace's mafia manifesto, which looks like how she/he played her last mafia game. I.E. Do as little as possible to not get lynched. (reminds me of when I nailed Ace for doing exactly this /nostalgiatear). I'd lynch the fuck out of her. Tornak and Tormented are 'eh', to steal yamato's phrase. Could be mafia in one of them but Tornak is so sweet and innocent and calls me Scarfs which is so cute I couldn't possibly lynch him. Tormented... eh. Still think he could be mafia, but if artanis is, then he probably isn't. Damdred, probably town. Though his waiting for Tormented to make a case on me before deciding himself has points against him. Probulous... not sure. He's done his giant reads posts in the past in order to make himself towny. I think he falls off a bit though if he's mafia so I'd give him a pass for now. Eden... dunno. Seems intelligent, which means hard to read. Node has only Wave's point going for him, which is 'why would mafia say something so dumb'. But if you've been around awhile, maybe as mafia you just post whatever you want and let people think exactly like Wave does. I'd still lynch him. So ya, artanis, The Shining, maybe Tormented, maybe Node. Unfortunately in that list, only Tormented had pressure of any sorts on them. That's where I stand. | ||
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On February 26 2015 07:30 _Tormented_ wrote: Sigh...that post does seem rather towny. I do agree with your opinion of artanis, but I believe someone posted that he usually does tunnel someone they think is scum. So the fact that he provided very little else to the entire D1 could possibly be explained with that. I just really dislike that I need to go back and read to figure out who he thinks is scum. If he was tunneling I'm pretty sure I'd know off the top of my head. I think it was yamato? | ||
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On February 26 2015 07:37 Snarfs wrote: I just really dislike that I need to go back and read to figure out who he thinks is scum. If he was tunneling I'm pretty sure I'd know off the top of my head. I think it was yamato? Quick scan of filter, confirming: a) not tunneling. b) is voting yamato. | ||
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On February 26 2015 07:58 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Okay, I've made up my mind. You're scum. There's no way you're reading the thread if you don't know who I've been going after all game long. I was saying you aren't tunneling and that you switched off of tormented onto yamato. Feels like a pretty weak tunnel on Tormented if that's what it was. That is what I'm saying. | ||
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On February 26 2015 08:03 Artanis[Xp] wrote: You said you needed to go back and read to figure out who is scum. It doesn't matter if you call it tunneling or whatever. I can quote the amount of times I've asked for opinions on Tormented and how many times I referred back to the case. There's no way you didn't know I was suspecting him if you were reading the thread. I knew damn well you were suspecting him. I meant who you had your vote on. Who you currently thought was scum by who you actually had your vote on. | ||
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On February 26 2015 08:04 Tronak wrote: /agree I like Snarfs, as said before, he results interesting to exist in my learning curve. However, is impossible anyone reading half Artanis's post would miss his tunneling on Tormented. How can you explain that Snarfs? I meant I didn't know who he currently had his vote on. | ||
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On February 26 2015 08:11 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I can also quote how many times I've said I didn't like Yamato if that helps. Generally people know these things of their main scumspects. But why yamato? It just doesn't make sensssssse if you really thought Tormented was scum. | ||
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On February 26 2015 08:22 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Shining, focus on Snarfs and Wave. I need to revisit Wave myself. Why not Tormented? Why not tell the new guy to focus on reading the guy you've been "tunneling" all day when we probably would have 3 votes on him right away and Shining would make a 4th!? | ||
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##Vote: WaveofShadow | ||
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I was trying to make a point about artanis's so called "tunneling". I've already explained this. I knew he was suspecting Tormented, but the fact that he switched to yamato and then tried to push him was not a memorable event. | ||
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On February 26 2015 08:46 Eden1892 wrote: lol I actually misread what Snarfs was doing But it's even more clearly explained by him being town actually. He said he was making the point that you spent a lot of time on yamato this turn for being "tunnelled on Tormented." That's not a slip or even bad play, it's a fucking rhetorical point. Come on man. Someone gets it! | ||
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On February 26 2015 08:52 KelsierSC wrote: so snarf was misrepresenting artanis's case. then Misrepresenting!? I think the whole thing's shit! That's what I've been saying the entire time! | ||
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9 3 right now means that if you shoot me and I'm town you move mylo up by a day. And I assure you, I'm town. KelsierSC, you dumb or scum? | ||
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Mafia. | ||
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On February 26 2015 09:23 The Shining wrote: See, thank you, Kels. This is the 2nd game in a row I've been resigned and detached for whatever reasons. Last game, not 1 but 2 D2 replacements almost took me out of the game. This time, its my late start. Want to see my help? Let's help, then. I want to see final vote, too, and I'll get through some more filters before I leave work tonight How's this coming along? | ||
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On February 27 2015 00:54 KelsierSC wrote: I think tormented probably replaces SL on your list. Like in my mind sl mafia would probably vote wave there. He has a good excuse for himself. "I called snarf and damdred town early and they are voting wave, " "ksc is voting snarf and I think he is scum" " edens case is good and wave did scummy things." It would be easy for.him.to blend into the wagon rather than stick out as the non voter I agree with this line of reasoning. I also still think his calling me town for my first post is one of those silly reasons mafia probably wouldn't do. | ||
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On February 26 2015 08:58 Probulous wrote: Too late for a switch? On February 26 2015 08:58 Probulous wrote: Damn you Tronak. We got scum on this wagon people. I read this as town realizing too late that it's a lynch between two town. If you're mafia, why do you even bother saying anything at all? Kelsier wrote: plus the reason he scum read snarf was because as town he was "insightful and thinks carefully about his post" but now he thinks snarf is town because he is "active and willing to be wrong" I also think town is more likely to contradict themselves. Especially in a scenario where he probably could have just jumped on my lynch given the aforementioned scumread. | ||
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On February 27 2015 10:24 The Shining wrote: Pretty much exactly what I was getting at. Hmph. +1 town point for you. And ya I had Snarfs as town, too, so I want to see the same. Speaking of which...you avoided a "mislynch" Snarfs, assuming my read is right. What do you plan to do with this extra day you've been blessed with? Probably grab some beers with some friends tonight. I'm going over some of artanis's old games from the TL database and I'm just convincing myself more and more I was right. Even when he has posting restrictions he has more reads: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/462018-twitterverse-mini-mafia?user=Artanis[Xp] I'm also finding it hard to believe someone who in all these games: TL Mafia 2 [gg] Town Veteran Survived TL Mafia 3 Town Vanilla Survived [GG] Team Liquid Mafia Resurrection Town Vanilla Endgamed TL Mafia V: The Wrath of KHAAAAAANN Town Vanilla Endgamed Night 5 TL Mafia XXX Town Friendly Neighbor Survived BC and RoL: Salem Mafia Town Detective Killed Night 3 Dont lose yo village! Town Veteran Killed Night 2 Surprisingly Normal Mini Mafia IX Town Vigilante Killed Night 3 Emergency Mini Mafia! Town Vanilla Survived Fruity Mafia Town Gun Dealer Survived Day 2 British Empire Mini Mafia II Town Vanilla Survived Day 3 TL Mafia LXI Town Vanilla Killed Night 7 TL Mafia LXIII: Time to Die Town 2-shot Vigilante Killed Night 2 Really Small Mafia Town Vanilla Killed Night 1 Vengeful Mini Mafia! Mafia Vanilla Killed Night 1 Default Suspicions Mafia Town Vanilla Killed Night 1 Normal Mini Mafia LVI Town Busy Paramedic Killed Night 3 Twitterverse Mini Mafia Town Trendsetter Killed Night 2 was never mislynched would say something like this: Artanis[Xp] wrote: If I'm right on both Tormented and Snarfs then all I need to do is to get town to actually listen to me. Have you considered that possibility? Like, I keep coming up with a far more helpful town artanis than this which makes me feel so good I called him on it day 1. Anyways, you said you want more than on artanis and I obviously agree that's a good idea. So I'm going to spend some time figuring you out. Spend some time figuring Node out. See if there's anything I missed rereading with Damdred's flip. Maybe update my little voting spreadsheet. You know, general towny stuff. ##Vote: Artanis[xp] | ||
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On February 27 2015 10:54 sicklucker wrote: I got roleblocked 5000! | ||
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On February 27 2015 11:06 The Shining wrote: Light or dark beer? Cheers mate. Its not hard to figure me out at all. I'll even do it for you. As scum, I'm a lurker and like to sheep as easily and quickly as possible. As town, I have a slow game due to my hatred for D1 and not having learned my way around it. It picks up after voting analysis(which I learned from Damdred ironically) and after players start being inconsistent or not contributive. This is why I am willing to vote Artanis. I just won't do so right away, especially with 3 votes already on him. It won't be me but I'm interested in seeing who, if anyone, will defend him. I do like those points on Artanis, though meta isn't one of my biggest strengths. As a newbie, have to ask, how do I verify that he was in fact not mislynched in any of those games? In my newbie games here, diving 1 or 2 old games was easy but how do you find all of those? And welp, there is the possibility Node afks D2 as well and gets modkilled. I only mind that if he flips town. Have a look at the TL Mafia database: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/390080-tl-mafia-database Just do a ctrl+f for anyone you want to see. From what I can tell though, it may not have EVERYthing. For instance, I think it's missing my last game, which was a hydra game. Which now that I think about it explains exactly why it's not under my name haha. (If you care, it was under "WittyHydraName", was town and day1 mislynched for not even really playing the game). | ||
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On February 27 2015 11:42 Fecalfeast wrote: Replacementfeast on the job. Hi! | ||
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On February 27 2015 11:44 Fecalfeast wrote: The first volunteer to have their filter read! Congratulations! I look forward to your analysis! o7 | ||
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On February 27 2015 11:58 The Shining wrote: No no do me first, it'll take like 5 mins. =l Yeah Node is now Fecal so I'm null there now. Snarfs, to answer you, I don't like unflipped association but Artanis's play not only looks suspect on himself but yamato as well. The early interaction looks a little strange, although that could easily be just regular banter instead of "hey let's acknowledge each other early so that can't be used against us" in QT. What's most interesting to me is his case on Tormented. First game on TL, seems like he could be gunning for low hanging fruit. Recent yamato post though is a one liner. Tormented is town. Why is Tormented now town? What else? Without associations? | ||
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On February 27 2015 16:32 Eden1892 wrote: i'm just at a loss as to how my innocence is even in question to anyone at this point. my pursuit of your read is entirely intellectual curiosity, i read you town so idgas what your read is on me from the standpoint of figuring out the gamestate i think yamato is probably not the right lynch today. i don't really get why he's on tilt over sicklucker rn but this isn't a mafia meltdown to me A) He's town. He's still pissed off that one of his friends was lynched when they town read each other early and thought they'd have a gay ol' time lynching scum for the next couple of days. He promised his buddy he'd protect him from a town mislynch and he failed. B) He's mafia. His team is doing fine at 8-3 and though people are starting to get suspicious of him, no one has really made a case on him aside from the person who's currently leading votes and currently most likely to be lynched. Maybe it's his mafia partner, maybe it isn't. Either way, he's decided to give up on the game. I dunno, I vote A. Maybe he's mafia and pissed off his town friend got lynched, but then I feel like he could be all "Ha! Outplayed you buddy ol' pal!" I'm a little off put by the fact that shining wasn't giving me any reasons that Yamato could be town. /shrug, maybe I made it seem like all I cared about was reasons he could be mafia? But like, call me out on that if I do that? I dunno, shining's analysis didn't make me think s/he was any more likely to be town. | ||
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On February 27 2015 15:36 Fecalfeast wrote: How many people are scum reading yamato I remember him coming up a lot. Also why was snarfs the other wagon? Why was you vote on a separate person, SL? Did you think both wagons were town but no one listened? To answer your first question, up until about the point where things got crazy before the lynch on day 1, I had the following scumming yamato: Tormented Tronak Kelsier Artanis I can't remember where I lost track, but it was obviously before artanis' decision that Yamato was town. I also had the following town reading him if it makes a difference: Wave Eden | ||
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On February 27 2015 16:55 Tronak wrote: Please do not stop efforts, keep it up too. We got 2 towns losses to recover from... Keep pushing them Tronak. 2 town losses at this point is about 75% of games according to those stats from the beginning so don't feel discouraged. What do you think of the shining at this point? | ||
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On February 28 2015 00:47 Tronak wrote: About TheShining after jumping 10mins in his filter: -He arrives terribly late because he forgot his tablet at work. 2 questions for TheShining: 1) Shining can't you play from another technology at your house? 2) Why didn't you play from work as you have recently made? -A pretty big proportion of his posts are useless for the game. I am refering to: 1) those related his presentation. 2) his apologies for coming back late into the game, the comunication of his progress of pages readed and comments on closed cases like Prob's case on Damdred all over in the midle of last 2 hours of EOD without adding a single usefull thing. 3) other spamm like: I am playing this other mafia game (I dont care at all what else you playing or how it goes) or I'm playing League of Legends. 4) his emotional posts with KSC (Iit happened the same to me, however this is my first game, is his 4th). -Then he puts this post comes in: Which brings me the following: 1) A scum read for lazyness on Fecalfeast. Fecalfeast we still waiting you do you homework and publish your own analysis of the previous 70 pages before you replaced, meanwhile your posts are useless. 2) About my reading on Shining for his list: clearly scummy. -He enters the wagon on Artanis lynch (mafia could do this at this time of D2 even if Artanis is mafia as I believe so far) -Reads town on Prob/Tormented/Kelsier/Scarf. -Nulls on Eden, SL and me (why?) havent we given enough information to actually town or scum us? Conclusion: right now I would be happy lyching him as part of scum team. /thank Snarfs for asking me my opinion in this pearl (I would have skipped him many more hours). What do you think on him? I'm still not sure. Points for walking into a split lynch between two town and proclaiming one of them town though. | ||
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On February 28 2015 04:00 The Shining wrote: See I like Snarfs. He questions me for not looking for reasons to town yamato(even though that vague "What else" definitely implied you wanted my scumread explained) instead of just trying to bury me. Basically how Tronak just tried to do with those misrepresentations. Can you explain your Tormented read for me? | ||
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On February 28 2015 03:45 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I'll be around in like 2.5 hours. Can we have a big party here with everyone then? I shall be around. Would love to hear more from you. | ||
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On February 28 2015 14:19 yamato77 wrote: Artanis plz. Yamato, who are your top 3 scum? | ||
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On February 28 2015 16:53 Snarfs wrote: Kelsier, Yamato, town seriously needs your help. If you don't want to talk to me can you at least try to figure this out between the two of you? That's what we need right now. To expand, can you guys agree on a secondary lynch at least. Give us something to discuss? This afk vote is just fucking town if artanis is town as you both believe. | ||
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On February 28 2015 19:15 KelsierSC wrote: You're meant to be leading town from your "position of extra knowledge" You already got the vote analysis from Damdred that assumes I'm town. I don't think I could do a better job. Like, for a student game I'm just very underwhelmed by the helpfulness of some of my strongest town reads. Why did you guys even sign up for this one? | ||
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On February 28 2015 20:31 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Guys, I'm really sorry but I actually managed to catch a flu last night and I feel like shit. And before you say it, I never lie about OOG excuses. Never have, never will. I don't see any way I'm not getting lynched today, all I ask you is that once I flip green is to look heavily into Tormented. I really think I'm onto something here and once my flip confirms my read as genuine, this should really cause some alarm bells to go off because I'm rarely wrong about these things. I'll try to be around here and there but I can make no promises. ##Vote _Tormented_ Sorry to hear that man. If you have energy please just drop us a list of thoughts to go off of. | ||
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On March 01 2015 06:55 Tronak wrote: I mean... Since the start of the game I felt Artanis was treated by most players as a pro player. This was confirmed by 2 things: 1- Every time he was asked questions about others? he would answer giving some "free" (if he is mafia) reads who no one questioned. But actually only me (a bit of Snarfs, Deamdred and finally Eden) pushed him directly. 2- Snarfs posted a damm long list of his games. If was in his position and about to be lynched I wouldnt post that "flu" excuse (which I want to believe). This will be recorded in his meta forever. Therefore my question? do you think this is "normal" in him? Out of game teaching moment: Really don't think much of it. As far as I'm aware people around here don't make up out of game excuses for either faction. if he feels like ass then maybe he's not gonna care too much about this game either way. Be lenient on people when they have valid reasons and try to judge them based on other characteristics. Back in game: Can you give some examples of the free reads he's been giving? Because that is an alignment indicator and the main reason I think he's mafia and it seems others do as well is because he hasn't been giving out free reads. | ||
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On February 27 2015 12:46 The Shining wrote: Probulous - town lean Artanis - scummy SL - null(I have a post addressing this) Tronak - null Yamato - suspicious, leaning scum Tormented - town lean Shining - town Eden - null Snarfs - town HTS/Kelsier - had HTS as suspicious, Kels play has me back towards town lean Node/Fecal - was scum, back to null What happened to your read on artanis, Shining? You have him as scummy, he does nothing all day, now you think we should give him a chance? Like, from this list he was clearly your biggest scum read. | ||
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On March 01 2015 07:34 The Shining wrote: That was very general, Snarfs. Would you like to read my filter and the multiple posts saying I didn't like how fast his wagon gained traction and wanted to hear his defense before pulling the trigger on him and then ask that question again? I did see the posts, I'm just not clear on whether you think he's mafia right now or not. | ||
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On March 01 2015 07:56 Tronak wrote: Nothing more... Well I lost the focus. Back to the point... ##vote Artanis[Xp] Now... may I have reads on FF? (I asked you a couple of times Snarfs, I asked you too Shining). I got family stuff now so I'm gone until tomorrow probably. FF could be scum if artanis is. Otherwise I'd be more inclined to look at Tormented given FF's willingness to drop a lot of info on Tormented but switch off of artanis rather easily. | ||
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