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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On March 03 2015 10:10 rsoultin wrote: those shuriken are 1-shot? if they're 1-shot then nah I don't really care about ninja Unless I'm misreading the OP, I think they are 2-shot. | ||
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Tubesock
United States2726 Posts
The rest I just need to see more. I don't really scum anyone at the moment. The only one I'm somewhat questioning is Slam and only because in some game awhile ago Koshi said that town slam makes no sense, while scum slam is coherent and slam is pretty coherent this game. But I liked his evolution of my idea. (his seemingly reluctant acceptance of it anyway). | ||
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Onegu
United States9699 Posts
On March 03 2015 09:11 Half the Sky wrote: Scumpile for Slam. Nope | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
On March 03 2015 10:10 rsoultin wrote: those shuriken are 1-shot? if they're 1-shot then nah I don't really care about ninja Read OP. They're 2 shot and go through everything. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On March 03 2015 10:10 Fecalfeast wrote: I don't think we can find the ninjas reliably and I agree with toad's evaluation this is true as well. Just think about the role for a second. The entire point of it is to find the other ninja so even if you have never played it let's just assume it's difficult because otherwise the role would be imbalanced. It takes days to figure out the other ninja and it's a lot of work. Pushing for a ninja search troop means we effectively stop scumhunting. I can't stress enough how incredibly bad the idea from geript is but at the same time not a lot of people have played ninja on here or have experiences with it so I don't want to fault anyone for it. So let's just forget that. With that being said I need some sleep, see you tomorrow. | ||
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Sepulchre
United States141 Posts
Out of the people involved in the whole thing, ObiWanShinobi comes out as the clear suspect. This post is just all kind of wrong. "A bunch of people pressured her to draw a conclusion" Ommiting that he did, in fact, also pressure him (her?) into the same direction just a couple minutes earlier (here). A sign that he does not want to be associated with the line of play even though he directly participated. "Scum points for you. This is how I would write a post as scum." I don't even see the point in this. Not only is it one of the least convincing ways to portray suspicion, it also contains a logical fallacy for good measure. Given that Your Mom has not shown truly suspicious behaviour there (granted this may come down to opinion, though of course, my opinion is more valuable to me than anybody else's), it is not surprising that ObiWanShinobi would need to fall back to rhetoric to shadow-explain a substanceless mafia read. Deflection and unsubstantiated reads do not a good start make. As for Tubesock, I am generally not a fan of the "friendly neighborhood helper" type player, it too often is a Mafia player trying to appear useful by spending all his efforts into the formulating or setting up of plans. Case in point, none of his posts have shown intent to find mafia players, all of them are about questionable* plans intead. Other than that, I would also consider shooting raynpelikoneet purely because all his posts at time of writing are objectively terrible, have nothing to do with this game or are poor attempts at jokes. Occasionally a combination of any of the above, probably. I'm not yet acclimated enough to really tell which posts in this game are jokes, sadly. *At the time of me writing this his plan seems to be getting off the ground already, though I do not quite understand why. I will just briefly say my opinion on it as an idea, independent of who suggested or favored it: As far as I can tell the only restriction on shooting is the 24 hour mark, in which case a target that has been agreed on by "town consensus" will have a decent shot at preempting these attempts on his life, since he knows it coming. This is then a game of "who can shoot closer to the deadline" (okay it already kind of is regardless of that, but talking about specific people here). And if the target is mafia, you can be sure he is going to try to shoot first (unless he is not present at the time), but even if he is town he may well decide to shoot somebody else (purely mathematically speaking a preferable choice given he knows himself town, though in the long run mostly inconsequential. By the time I'm done with this there are probably around 3 more pages of posts I haven't read yet so if anything I said has become obsolete by now just imagine I did not say anything at those parts. Side note, I believe almost everyone in this game would benefit greatly if they just thought about whether their posts were worth posting before they posted them. Thanks. | ||
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Sepulchre
United States141 Posts
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
hrum 18/6/2 11/6/2 = mislynch, 2 scum KP, 4 ninja misfires lolol realistically, though, unless it's like SL or something who is one of the ninjas, just surviving lynches longer is the more rational way to play 3p and there's still the problem of actually being able to find a ninja specifically...just looking for scummy seems more doable | ||
Fecalfeast
Canada11355 Posts
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geript
10024 Posts
On March 03 2015 10:07 Toadesstern wrote: I've been ninja before. They tend to be pro town as surving lynches, when the only way to die is getting lynched gives you a boost to win the game because you can just outlast your opponent and win that way even if you don't figure it out. I also took 3 mafia bullets on n1 and n2 as a third party ninja by nature of being that townie. Trying to lynch third party is MASSIVELY anti-town. They're not using their shots to randomely shoot into town and unless we waste a townshot on one of them like today there's no downside to having them alive and let mafia shoot into them. The last game I saw this was with VE and BH I think. Where VE got lynched after a missed shot I think. Like them potentially soaking up KP is possible but unlikely until D3-4 unless one of a handful of people get it. There's also the aspect that if they're a good/decent player, they can suck up roles/powers given by the spirits. Like if they get medic or vet it's pretty useless. Tracker would be useless too. Louie them remaining in the game leaves more room for mafia to hide in and has far more potential to fuck up town than help town. Assuming all 4 shots go off, odds are they only hit 1 mafia. Maybe 2 if we're really lucky. Imagine if like batsnacks, Slam, Mocsta or LS got the role though. Like shit would hit the fan real fast. Like that's the really important thing. Is it they're ever about to be lynched then they 100% will fire indescriminantly and likely hit town. This isn't even considering them presumptively killing people to get them off their back. The roles are super wifomy. Like I remember Kita shooting someone as 3P 10 minutes before a lynch to try and get multiple people killed and they could manipulate things that way too. Like they're really really bad for us unless they never shoot or only shoot perfectly. two things we can't count on. | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
On March 03 2015 10:17 Toadesstern wrote: this is true as well. Just think about the role for a second. The entire point of it is to find the other ninja so even if you have never played it let's just assume it's difficult because otherwise the role would be imbalanced. It takes days to figure out the other ninja and it's a lot of work. Pushing for a ninja search troop means we effectively stop scumhunting. I can't stress enough how incredibly bad the idea from geript is but at the same time not a lot of people have played ninja on here or have experiences with it so I don't want to fault anyone for it. So let's just forget that. With that being said I need some sleep, see you tomorrow. I'm not saying ninja hunt. Im pointing out that I'm happier lynching/shooting ninja than mafia. like just kill everyone who isn't town. | ||
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Tubesock
United States2726 Posts
So, far the only real arguments against my idea is that people will act first and outside the majority. If there is no plan, then don't you think the odds of a town being shot would be higher than if it's town controlled? If nothing else, we gain more information by seeing the people who follow or don't follow the plan. My idea is basically, at shooting deadline, who ever is in thread shoots the majority lead. Simple. It's a race, yes but it's a race anyway isn't it? I really dislike the hunt for ninjas ideas. It seems poor play to just sling shurikans randomly and not try to avoid being lynched and outlive like someone else mentioned. | ||
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Fecalfeast
Canada11355 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On March 03 2015 10:28 geript wrote: The last game I saw this was with VE and BH I think. Where VE got lynched after a missed shot I think. Like them potentially soaking up KP is possible but unlikely until D3-4 unless one of a handful of people get it. There's also the aspect that if they're a good/decent player, they can suck up roles/powers given by the spirits. Like if they get medic or vet it's pretty useless. Tracker would be useless too. Louie them remaining in the game leaves more room for mafia to hide in and has far more potential to fuck up town than help town. Assuming all 4 shots go off, odds are they only hit 1 mafia. Maybe 2 if we're really lucky. Imagine if like batsnacks, Slam, Mocsta or LS got the role though. Like shit would hit the fan real fast. Like that's the really important thing. Is it they're ever about to be lynched then they 100% will fire indescriminantly and likely hit town. This isn't even considering them presumptively killing people to get them off their back. The roles are super wifomy. Like I remember Kita shooting someone as 3P 10 minutes before a lynch to try and get multiple people killed and they could manipulate things that way too. Like they're really really bad for us unless they never shoot or only shoot perfectly. two things we can't count on. Like I said, I absorbed 3 mafia bullets in the game I played as ninja, on n1 and n2. Frankly, your own post even proves yourself wrong. You want to lynch a ninja showing that what they care the most about is surviving and not getting "mis"lynched before figuring out who's the other ninja. So they'll make sure that doesn't help. Your standpoint even pushes for more chaos. A game that pushes for ninja lynches is a game that makes it more likely for them to panic and act unreasonable while townies do no scumhunting and mafia's don't even have to pretend they're scumhunting because they can just ACTUALLY ninja-hunt, making it super hard to distinguish them from townies who are doing exactly the same. I agree with you, we don't want them to randomly shoot around but if it's someone who just likes doing that... sucks to be us, nothing we can do about it. We can't even lynch them d1 because they have a fucking protection from at least 1 bullet (reads like only 1shot protection and not actually unkillable like in my game). So you're talking about this stupid worst case scenario that is some random guy going yoloswag without caring one bit while actively pushing for making it more likely that they're doing exactly that. Yes, if shit is stupid for us shit is stupid for us. No need to make it worse, especially when it's REALLY FUCKING hard to find them and and IMPOSSIBLE to kill them as well as giving mafia one more cycle, essentially giving mafia +1 shot, assuming we manage to lynch a ninja on d2 and. That's best case scenario for us and we just gave mafia one more round (don't even get started on what happens if we lynch town as well as wasting a day of scumhunting because we ninja-hunted), as well as most likely at least one random dead guy because one of them paniced during n1. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On March 03 2015 10:40 Toadesstern wrote: Like I said, I absorbed 3 mafia bullets in the game I played as ninja, on n1 and n2. Frankly, your own post even proves yourself wrong. You want to lynch a ninja showing that what they care the most about is surviving and not getting "mis"lynched before figuring out who's the other ninja. So they'll make sure that doesn't help. Your standpoint even pushes for more chaos. A game that pushes for ninja lynches is a game that makes it more likely for them to panic and act unreasonable while townies do no scumhunting and mafia's don't even have to pretend they're scumhunting because they can just ACTUALLY ninja-hunt, making it super hard to distinguish them from townies who are doing exactly the same. I agree with you, we don't want them to randomly shoot around but if it's someone who just likes doing that... sucks to be us, nothing we can do about it. We can't even lynch them d1 because they have a fucking protection from at least 1 bullet (reads like only 1shot protection and not actually unkillable like in my game). So you're talking about this stupid worst case scenario that is some random guy going yoloswag without caring one bit while actively pushing for making it more likely that they're doing exactly that. Yes, if shit is stupid for us shit is stupid for us. No need to make it worse, especially when it's REALLY FUCKING hard to find them and and IMPOSSIBLE to kill them as well as giving mafia one more cycle, essentially giving mafia +1 shot, assuming we manage to lynch a ninja on d2 and. That's best case scenario for us and we just gave mafia one more round (don't even get started on what happens if we lynch town as well as wasting a day of scumhunting because we ninja-hunted), as well as most likely at least one random dead guy because one of them paniced during n1. *help = happen now really sleeping | ||
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Tubesock
United States2726 Posts
On March 03 2015 10:00 geript wrote: I'm not voting to shoot someone. Unless this ear infection turns into Ebola overnight, I will be shooting someone. It's a matter of figuring out who's the best shot. Does the progression from being ok with a random shooting to "I'm not voting to shoot someone....I will be shooting someone." bug anyone but me? | ||
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Fecalfeast
Canada11355 Posts
On March 03 2015 10:43 Tubesock wrote: Does the progression from being ok with a random shooting to "I'm not voting to shoot someone....I will be shooting someone." bug anyone but me? Now that you point it out, I feel it. | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
I can also see geript being unwilling to trust a shot to someone else even as town. The fact of the matter, though, is even if the plan doesn't ultimately work because we can't actually force a shot on the person with the most votes, we still get more information out of it than a clusterfuck of yammering followed by a race to be the first to get a shot out at the 24 hour mark. | ||
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Tubesock
United States2726 Posts
On March 03 2015 11:00 rsoultin wrote: Eh, I dunnae. Slam's play was kinda transparent, so people not really reacting negatively to it doesn't mean much imo. I can also see geript being unwilling to trust a shot to someone else even as town. The fact of the matter, though, is even if the plan doesn't ultimately work because we can't actually force a shot on the person with the most votes, we still get more information out of it than a clusterfuck of yammering followed by a race to be the first to get a shot out at the 24 hour mark. My point was more, Geript thought RNG was fine. Then later the vote idea came up, and now he's not at all for an RNG or any type of plan that isn't just him shooting. And then later, he thinks we should hunt ninja's? While I liked his explanation of "not really hunting ninja's but being more happy to have one die to remove 2 non towns in game" it just feels like he's pushing for more chaos. | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
On March 03 2015 11:12 Tubesock wrote: My point was more, Geript thought RNG was fine. Then later the vote idea came up, and now he's not at all for an RNG or any type of plan that isn't just him shooting. And then later, he thinks we should hunt ninja's? While I liked his explanation of "not really hunting ninja's but being more happy to have one die to remove 2 non towns in game" it just feels like he's pushing for more chaos. Lol, again, Slam's play was pretty transparent. So saying he was "okay" with it isn't really saying anything The ninja stuff I kinda don't get, though. Not sure why it's even a topic of conversation when actually hunting for ninjas would be a terrible idea, and if there's no good way to specifically hunt for them, the conversation is entirely moot. If anything, though, that just makes me think that if geript isn't town, he's a ninja himself lol which means trying to shoot him would be pointless. So I'm just not going to bother with a player who otherwise has been pretty in line with my reads/way of thinking. | ||
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