Newbie Mini Mafia LXI - Page 7

On February 19 2015 04:09 Trfel wrote:
This will be a more detailed response to Tere's recent posts. (or, since I napped for so long, not so recent any more)

First, I note that the amount of effort that Tere put into these posts is probably the greatest single time effort I have ever seen in a mafia game. I almost townread her for effort alone, though without knowing her character, that isn't safe, unfortunately. However, the amount of effort put in is extremely encouraging. Tere's comment. I could have an extended rant about why this is really annoying, but I won't. It feels like a patronising "good girl, well done" or something. Trfel, if this is unintentional, you need to work on your wording a bit.

I generally think that voting analysis (at least when basically everyone votes for one obvious person) and night kill analysis are weak. I'm guessing that it would be easily possible to spin the voting analysis to have a completely different set of implicated players (not implying that this is what Tere did). Keep in mind that I have never actually performed or analyzed someone else's voting analysis.... Tere's comment: OK, but you should see what Eden can do with vote analysis. I've gone into why the NK analysis is WIFOM. What's there is a yucky bandwagon, but we don't have much. Shutting it down isn't helpful. All the players here are smart. I am trusting that the town majority can make their own judgements

I see the way that Silverarte voted as more null than town, and I feel that the way The Shining voted wasn't as terrible as Tere thinks. Tere's comment - I know you are townreading The Shining and disagree with that. I agree that seeing the early vote from Silverarte as an alternative is quite reasonable

And I feel that ElyAs was actually the most proactive about looking into counterwagons. Tere's comment: I got a reasonable angst from him at the time so yeah. I don't know I'd describe him as proactive then, but his responses today have looked better. We need time to work out if it's a scramble away from a lazy lynch now I'm in honeybadger mode, or a real attempt to help. Right now we have that time.

I suppose it's silly to try and judge my own play, but I am more inclined to think that the way I voted for Hier looks more scummy than towny. Though that could be completely wrong. And naturally, I think that the rest of my play is more than towny enough to make up for it.

---

Tere's comment: Oh STFU with your own personal wifom. Stop making your suicide sword. Seriously. Kill scum. I have no sympathy for wangst. Chop chop. (Yes, I'm not very sympathetic. deal with it.)


On to Tere's analysis of our collective scumreads.
I'm not. But you had time to post an F5 gif and another post or two, you could have expressed a little disappointment at the flip. It's a moot point, since I'm accepting your explanation, and now that I think about it more, scum tend to feel guilty and sorry for the mislynch. Not showing emotion is not really alignment indicative. Tere's comment, good, because I'm not going to apologise for killing a non helpful town player in the absence of an attractive counterwagon. I've outlined why before. You are going to have to live with that. I have already offered to talk to Hier post game, because I'm not actually a bitch

I also disagree with some of Tere's reasoning for the "two kills" analysis. Nice people aren't always town, and mean people aren't always mafia. For example, while The Shining's filter does contain several suspicious things, it also contains several things that look towny. So I'm not confident in scumreading him just for being angry. Tere's comment, this is a horribad simplification of this analysis, and is setting off all sorts of alarm bells, particularly after yesterday's attempt at saying I was only townreading experienced people. If you are town, townreading me, and not getting all my internal cognitions, get out of my way and accept I have a different process, as I've done with jarjar (and would probably have worked out with Hier had he shown an interest at all in reaching out, but hey ho). I am not typing out every nuance of my internal dialogues, I spent a ton of time I didn't have today working to a town win, and just, yeah. Get out of my way if we have the same wincon. If you can't trust me, and had a decent read of Rso, I'll remind you Rso grokked me, (although of course dead players aren't infallible).

If you are scum, fuck you

In addition to this, Tere's posting has this tone that I run into every so often, not only convincing me that the player posting is the most towny player in the history of mafia, but also making me feel miserable for ever doubting their towniness. With an experienced conversationalist like Tere, logic tells me to be careful with this tone read. Tere's comment: Hi, Town Paranoia, meet Trfel. Trfel, meet Town Paranoia. Come back from this rabbit hole please

I'm not willing to completely clear Tere. But she has gone through an incredible effort, and much of what she says makes sense (though given the size of the posts, there weren't that many profound insights, though because her posts were formatted to talk about everything that is acceptable, I suppose). Tere's comment, WTF is up with this negging? I'm a little worried that Tere's posts make her look better than I feel the analysis warrants, but on the whole, I'm mostly happy to accept Tere as town.

Especially if Tere leads us to a scum lynch. If she leads a mislynch, then I will have to take another serious look at this again.... Tere's comment. I think I made it clear my lynchpool at start of day. ElyAs is looking a bit better now, which means I need to look to a POE candidate. I still can't see for the life of me why a bunch of you are townreading The Shining, right now he is textbook defensive scum to me. The best next POE candidate for me would be Silver, because I think there are merits to both you and ElyAs' cases. I would lynch within that pool, but given the cloud of WIFOM. I am not going to lead a wagon right now. Deal with it. I want people to make their own decisions. There's over half the day left and I want town aligned players to be proactive, not responsive

On February 19 2015 07:03 zlefin wrote:
I've for the most part (aside from the couple posts mentioned a short while ago) liked Tere's responses of late, so I'm giving her a town point;

here's where my point totals are now:
Trfel 0/2
Shining 1/1
rsoultin 1/1 dead town N1
elyas -1/1
jarjar -1/3
tere -1/3
hier 0/2 dead town D1
silver -1/1

as a reminder, not all points area created equal, it simply means I at one time or another had a feel one way or another. Some feels are stronger than others, and I haven't yet figured out a system for letting points decay over time, or if I even should have points decay over time.

I'm going to put this in another format:

Townish: Shining
Neutral: Trfel, Jarjar, tere
Scummish: elyas, silver


Question for everyone: In terms of the above 3 categories (townish, neutral, or scummish) how would you classify each other remaining player?
If you could format it similarly to above, so it's easier to read and compare them, please do so.

Jarjar, you seem to like data and tables, would having that data from each player be helpful to you, given that they're merely statements and not votes?