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On December 16 2014 22:42 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2014 22:37 rsoultin wrote:
Care to comment on any of the points on my case on you GB? If not ritoky, I will be voting you as it stands, for the reasons mentioned in the case. I haven't read it because, as I know I'm town, any points brought against me are automatically wrong. Anyway, is there something in there you think an explanation would be good?
I find your move here interesting. You may wish to take a look at the very last small paragraph in my case, as to why I think it's funny that you don't want to pursue a lynch against either ritoky or HF right now.
If you can't be bothered to read it and clarify your behavior this game, that's up to you. Most of the points I have questioned you about before, with a few exceptions here and there and a few quotes that hadn't stood out to me when you initially said them.
ritoky very clearly stepped in it. He is trying to explain that away now. He was not and never could have been notified of his action being interfered with, his pre-emptive claim was never very townie (something oddly enough that you mentioned multiple times before inexplicably changing your tunnel to HF for a gut feeling), so why not vote him? He seems to be the clear choice for lynch here. Even if he is telling the truth about having never taken a shot, why not just say so? It still wouldn't have looked good, but then at least he wouldn't be in the position of trying to get people to trust an admitted liar.
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On December 16 2014 23:19 Vivax wrote:
Ritoky is a policy lynch, nothing more, so stop disguising it as a lynch for scumminess. There's neither a special scum nor town motivation in what he did. As scum he could've claimed to not have shot without repercussions, as town he should have claimed to not have shot. What I see as a point against his lynch is the vote on Kelsier which had real impact on the lynch (as long as HF isn't scum at least)
For me, Oats is more obvious scum than him. So that's where I'm placing my vote.
Riddle me this. If HF is revealed as town, what happens? Just hypothetically. And what is the town motivation for lying? A townie might conceal his own role, perhaps, but lying about taking a shot and being roleblocked. What is the town motivation for that? What is the town motivation for throwing out a name of someone who has been shot at?
So what about Oats is obvious scum then, Vivax? I remember you going balls to the wall on Xata earlier, but it seems that the case against Oats is...he hasn't posted much? Is that not a "policy lynch"? Please enlighten us.
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No one wants to answer me today.
Fine and fair enough. If you guys have alternatives to ritoky/GB, you should present your cases and explain why you want to lynch these people beyond "they're scum". -shrugs- And why they're better lynches than ritoky in particular.
I'll drop in to read. If you've seen things I haven't and there's a eureka moment I'm willing to change my vote, but as it stands...no one is bringing forth convincing alternatives at present.
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Ritoky was under fire Day 1. He needed town cred badly. Claiming a present puts off his lynch long enough for him to buss an afk ksc who is in the hospital and may not want to play anymore anyway. ritoky was not shot. he could have been rbd but we cant know that. if hes town he would have been shot or rbd because he had a claimed kp. hf fliiping town puts gb under fire for his extensive tunneling on a weak case.
If you were going to be framed, gb, why is hf still alive today? Why did you go after hf for practically no good reason? Smells like a rat jumping a sinking ship to me.
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...people not explaining their votes or reads...gb still on hf with two of his now!scumreads instead of his other scumread...lots of weirdness going on today
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Only if you consider hes obv mafia as a real answer. i have yet to see a case. hes mafia because hes mafia and im town because im town are very ludicrous claims. Why? Any statement like that should be backed up with a why, and claiming to be town at all is just funny. every plauer in this game will do that regardless of actual alignment.
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On December 17 2014 04:00 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2014 03:30 rsoultin wrote:
Only if you consider hes obv mafia as a real answer. i have yet to see a case. hes mafia because hes mafia and im town because im town are very ludicrous claims. Why? Any statement like that should be backed up with a why, and claiming to be town at all is just funny. every plauer in this game will do that regardless of actual alignment. I've made a case on oats being mafia??
Yes. But you're not voting him over ritoky, and you weren't the one I was asking. SL needs to back up what he's doing. (And last I checked, he hadn't switched his vote to Oats either, just said we should lynch him.) This was the problem that I had with Xata (until he explained that he had three scumreads rating about equal) on Day 1. It's not enough to just call someone scum. You have to say why and also why they're the best lynch over other scumreads...or if you're not reading another as scum, why.
Vivax says ritoky is a policy lynch (disagree) and his vote on KSC absolves him (lol). If I weren't already reading ritoky as scum for his earlier play, lying about things may not be enough to lynch him, but he's done questionable things throughout the game, to include claiming something that he shouldn't have, GB (my main scum read) reading him as scum then turning on a dime for no better reason than 'my gut tells me so-and-so and they can't iboth be mafia', a random read on slam based on meta on a game slam was afk in, and those are just the things I've brought up.
Others have brought up different issues with him, like attacking LS for weak reasons Day 1 (kita) while saying tube was weird but new so okay (when they're both new???), or laying into HF because he wasn't angry enough Night 1 after the lead that HF was pushing flipped town (lololol what is that, especially when his main issue w/ LS was baseless meta-reads???). Then, even though GB just decided that yeah, ritoky is scum, and ritoky claims shooting me last night (who knows? I don't get notified if ppl try to shoot me and fail) because I am clearly the most scummy/plynch worthy player in the game to choose to lie about trying to shoot GB jumps on board trying to grill me about minor details that are easily explained.
Maybe 15 minutes after I said I had a case on GB that I just needed to get the quotes for??? That doesn't look like a delaying tactic at all? What point is ritoky even making, if he claims now that he never shot at me to begin with? If he was reserving his bullet it follows that he didn't feel strongly enough about anyone to shoot them. His case is just so full of holes. Not to mention this non-committal thing, lol. Yeah, I'm often accused of being passive about my scumreads xP <- for those who don't know me, that was sarcasm
Also, just as a sidenote...apparently between the time that I started writing this post and I finished it, SL changes his vote to Oats (lololol) without giving any reasoning in the thread. Still.
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On December 17 2014 05:35 LightningStrike wrote:Btw rsoultin this is my 3rd game I not entirely new 
I believe this site defines newbies as those who haven't finished 3 games yet? But I take your point . Tube is newer than you are.
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Nah. Read my very next post. It says that rit is the lynch for today and we can figure out what to do Day 4 from there.
I also asked people if they wanted my case against GB now or to wait until night. To be honest, I'm not really for pushing two scumreads at once. That seems like a great way to cause confusion/divide up votes, especially if scum takes advantage.
Rit+HF is solely based on rit's vote Day 2. Solely. When you look at the interactions, though, rit fights with HF most of night 1, and never really townreads him. By contrast, GB stops laying into rit the moment others start, completely flips and goes after HF (ironically for not giving rit shit over his early claim when he was giving rit shit for other things). To me the rit+HF seems unlikely.
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On December 17 2014 06:11 froggynoddy wrote:
I see. But if HF is town then it makes little sense for rit to go on Kelsier (I know I'm slow to the party...). Is rit+GB+HF scum team viable? Seems like super risky scum play to me.
-shrugs- It's a good question. I've already explained how it's possible, but it assumes both GB and rit are scum. If GB doesn't want HF to flip, and GB and rit are working together, then it's not a stretch that rit doesn't want HF to flip either. It is possible that they're all scum, anything's possible...but fighting like this seems like it would be hard to sustain this long.
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On December 17 2014 06:14 sicklucker wrote:
So I think im allowed one most post, im a little surprised no one knows why I dont mind voting out oats. Like 5-10 posts were about it so I know alot of you are not reading very well. If ritiky is mafia then he gave the kill present to a partner. Im fairly sure oats is mafia so its a chance to reduce kp, killing ritoky wont do this but its not a bad kill i just like the big plays. Mafia might just be sacrificing him here to save kp. I did this in my only game as mafia.
I also get more information by turning this landslide vote into something interesting to discuss im confident in my position as town in your eyes so its just the logical thing for me to start discussion and scum hunt oats.
Im still town reread the facts dont let mafia propaganda sway you. I cant post again so stop asking me to explain things that are already in my filter for another hour plz and letting mafia having an excuse to put dirt on me.
Lol, guilt by association. I don't think you're high on people's lynch list right now though, SL. Even if some of us probably do have doubts about you.
And I should have known this was a present thing again -_-. Either rit did or didn't open the present. The ks is either gone or he never actually knew what was in the present. So this entire line of reasoning you're on is pointless. -facepalms-
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On December 17 2014 06:19 froggynoddy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2014 06:14 rsoultin wrote:On December 17 2014 06:11 froggynoddy wrote:
I see. But if HF is town then it makes little sense for rit to go on Kelsier (I know I'm slow to the party...). Is rit+GB+HF scum team viable? Seems like super risky scum play to me. -shrugs- It's a good question. I've already explained how it's possible, but it assumes both GB and rit are scum. If GB doesn't want HF to flip, and GB and rit are working together, then it's not a stretch that rit doesn't want HF to flip either. It is possible that they're all scum, anything's possible...but fighting like this seems like it would be hard to sustain this long. I don't likt this logic. I think it would be quite easy to sustain a concerted argument as scum, you can pretty much rehearse it in QT no? If you can consider it possible for GB and rit working together then you to also have to consider GB and HF working together. I personally think GB slightly more likley than HF if rit flips. But I think there might be others I want to look to first (like SL + Oats). I still think Templar looks bad.
Like I said, I consider all of it possible. All three seems to be a stretch, but is also possible. None of this matters until we see how rit flips, though. I'm going to stop speculating about future scum until we know for sure which alignment rit is. Or someone starts shenanies, whichever happens, lol.
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On December 17 2014 06:43 Tubesock wrote:
So, what happens if Ritoky flips town? Do you guys think HF is scum or town still? GB?
Well, if rit flips town the first thing I'll do is call him an idiot without any reservations whatsoever. GB has been acting scummy to me...rit's flip doesn't actually speak to my case on GB except maybe one point or so...
I know you think HF is scum, so I'm willing to hear out your case. It seemed like most of it was associative...????
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On December 17 2014 06:58 froggynoddy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2014 06:46 froggynoddy wrote:
Hang on. Rit has to have opened the present as scum. If he passed it on and guessed then he had a 50% chance of being wrong right?? (that seems an incredibly risky play as scum does it not?).
No one had claimed getting the seer present at that time or am I being thick?
If he is scum and he opened the present then he would almost certainly have shot someone that night. 2 people died N2 so he was RB'ed by medic or he shot into a vet (or scum KP-ed into a vet).
I feel that the above scenario is the only one that makes sense if rit is scum. And I feel like there are too many iffs... why do I doubt like everything...
BTW does anyone have thoughts on this? I'm just starting to feel that rit might just be stupid rather than scum. I think its too late to do anything about it but thoughts?
Yeah, it's a gamble. But there are three things that make that gamble less risky:
1)Any of the dead players could have had a present
2)If they counterclaim they're in mafia crosshairs, so it's unlikely they would
3)There's no guarantee that present had been opened yet even if it's still in play
But you're right; it does run the chance of outing him to at least one player if he's mafia and false-claiming the present.
If you think there's a better lynch, feel free to suggest one.
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Glow didn't want to vote rit or HF...-shrugs-
Tube has his conspiracy theories centered on HF (since most of mine center on GB, can't really say anything)
Lian thinks we won't learn anything until HF flips
Viva wants Oats cause he doesn't feel he's contributed at all, thinks rit is a plynch
SL has some KS present theory (lol)
Slam...who knows???
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On December 17 2014 07:32 Tubesock wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2014 06:52 rsoultin wrote:On December 17 2014 06:43 Tubesock wrote:
So, what happens if Ritoky flips town? Do you guys think HF is scum or town still? GB? Well, if rit flips town the first thing I'll do is call him an idiot without any reservations whatsoever. GB has been acting scummy to me...rit's flip doesn't actually speak to my case on GB except maybe one point or so... I know you think HF is scum, so I'm willing to hear out your case. It seemed like most of it was associative...???? I first thought GB was mafia, but later he brought this big case on HF. I thought it would have been easier to just dismiss my case like the others did (assuming he responded partly due to my case and bringing him attention). I thought he was being set up as a scapegoat for a future mlynch. Then, he does very very scummy things (tunnels HF and then abandons it despite no real change in arguments, and then the drunk posts). My mafia read on HF is strenghtened by how I read the EoD2 votes: Given there were 2 wagons: I think it's more plausible that KelsierSC keeps his vote to protect Holyflare over the idea that KelsierSC is healthy enough to post, but not see that he could change his vote and lynch a Town!Holyflare and save himself. I have a very hard time believing the second situation. Show nested quote +On December 14 2014 08:01 marvellosity wrote:
The End of Counts
KelsierSC (8): Alakaslam, liancourt, Tubesock, Tubesock, rsoultin, Tubesock, Fecalfeast, Alakaslam, Trfel, Tubesock, Fecalfeast, Half the Sky, rsoultin, ritoky, Xatalos, ObiwanShinobi
liancourt (0): GlowingBear
GlowingBear (0): Tubesock, rsoultin, Holyflare
Tubesock (2): sicklucker, The_Templar, Fecalfeast, froggynoddy, Xatalos, Half the Sky, LightningStrike
ritoky (0): Holyflare, rsoultin, Lightning Strike, Half the Sky
froggynoddy (0): Oatsmaster
Half the Sky (0): batsnacks
Holyflare (7): GlowingBear, Fecalfeast, batsnacks, Tubesock, Alakaslam, Tubesock, Fecalfeast, The_Templar, sicklucker, Vivax, Fecalfeast, Trfel
Fecalfeast (2): Alakaslam, Vivax, Holyflare, KelsierSC, Vivax, Xatalos, Half the Sky, rsoultin, Alakaslam, Tubesock
Oatsmaster (0): Vivax
Vivax (1): Oatsmaster
sicklucker (0): Tubesock
Trfel (1): rsoultin
KelsierSC was lynched!
Afterwards, Holyflare seemed mad and frustrated because he's never been "mlynched" before, and that he was playing bad because if he wasn't he would have never been considered for lynch. Is this normal? Why wouldn't he feel relieved and happy town killed mafia? His never being mlynched streak stays intact, and we killed KelsierSC. Then, when asked about Ritoky he says: Show nested quote +On December 16 2014 10:36 Holyflare wrote:
I've gone through fluctuations with ritoky the most tbh. Like scummy as fuck for the bs meta case to not really scummy for claiming the present but also scummy for claiming the present and then he actually saw your case on me was bad and hammered mafia so i thought he may have actually just been retarded town again and then he claimed mafia and replaced froggy who was the weakest of my reads.
All the other ones have good reasons to be scum and froggy was just afk and agreeing with your case. Most of you seem pretty passionate about this Ritoky lynch. You all claim he claimed scum, but this Holyflare post is pretty noncommittal to me. Although I won't support the Ritoky lynch myself, it's because for me Ritoky is #8 on the scum list and only that high because he lied about using the present. I don't see how his action helped mafia, how would we not notice that it's very unlikely you'd get a non-kill notification especially when it would be obvious when your target survived? How does that advance mafia's agenda? I firmly believe Ritoky will flip town. I will strongly stand by this, I'd love to see HF or my other scum reads stand by any of their reads. Live or die by it, but they haven't. Yet, you people say I'm town because I seem to stand by my reads but all my reads are wrong? What the what? I'd also like to hear how you guys think that Holyflare is a good lynch candidate for D2 and then all of a sudden he's town? What changed? How exactly did he redeem himself? He hasn't put in any cases, he's been arguing with people about presents or claims and then complaining because he has to post every 5 minutes while on his romantic vacation but then also says he's at his post limit? Later he admits the mods don't really care about the limit, but still. What's convinced you guys he's town since EoD2? Sicklucker
Holyflare
The_Templar
kelsierSC
Froggynoddy
Lightningstrike
It's less convinced he's town and more that I haven't seen anything to suggest he's playing scummy. (Also wasn't scumreading him EoD2).
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On December 17 2014 07:44 Tubesock wrote:
I just believe that if he is playing well, you're not going to see any real scummy play. I would think as a mafia team, you'd need some players that are good at deflecting attention from their buddies, some who lurk about and go unnoticed, and someone who can steer town around to kill more town. That guy isn't going to act overly scummy. .
The best way I know how to play this game (and I'm definitely not the best or most experienced(ha!) player) is to look for the most scummy players. Once they flip (provided they're actually scum) you can try to determine the scum play based on their interactions/votes. It could be as simple as one scum partner protecting another, certainly. I don't believe so, but that doesn't mean I'm right.
That's why I'm not going to criticize you for your HF read. I can see your point of view.
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On December 17 2014 07:50 batsnacks wrote:
btw usually when people sheep me really bad stuff happens...
just saying
Lol, the quintessential disclaimer.
My current lynch pushes have a successful scum lynch rate of 1:1 lol. Cross your fingers and hope it becomes 2:1? Bats, you were right on all yours last game. 
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Lol we killed a mass murderer SL. Hush and rejoice.
I AM!!!
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Lol, yeah. If it really was me, thank you to the RB/medic whoever fairy. Appreciate it.
Though why he thought he got a message, I have no clue o.0
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EPT
