On December 14 2014 03:37 GlowingBear wrote: Make a case on me. You're calling me scum multiple times for things that doesn't make me scum. I want you to say mafias motivation for things you call me scum for.
I've made my case on you multiple times GB. Unlike you I am not under scrutiny. I've explained what I think and why I think it. As for the gut feel that is contributing to it...what have you really done for town? Falsely brought up mass-claiming like that would be helpful. A bunch of jokes. A bunch of partial reads you have to be prodded on. Many promises you fail to carry out. (Your HF case is still unfinished.) Ritoky you were pressuring a little until others started...which, if you're town, why are you pressuring the guy you think is town (cause you're not going to send anything to mafia as town) then flip right back onto HF as soon as others start pressuring Ritoky? There's something wrong about how you're playing, and the scenario with both you and Ritoky as scum works. It is ballsy like Xata said...but assuming that mafia would never play ballsy...lol. If this is the way town thinks, that's the perfect way for mafia to play. Either way its WIFOM as shit.
You're so focused on this matter that you fail to properly evaluate what I've brought for holyflare. What do you think of the case? Of the arguments? Why do you think mafia would make a case on one of the strongest players in the game? Do you see ANY mafia motivation behind it?
I thought ritoky was mafia. I reevaluated it after putting more thought on it, mostly when I've realised HF is sure to be scum.
I'm saying people are town based on gut feelings and probability. I have experience with some players here and I feel comfortable after I see some patterns. Like batsnacks, his townplay is like this. Slam also. It's hard to explain why, because it's more of a feeling than logical reads.
I've townread you for the way you evaluated the present thing on sicklucker. I'm still reading you as town. I want you to get out of the tunnel you're currently in.
I've already responded to your case GB. Your town reads I'm not arguing with, in a general sense. Your points aren't very strong to me. Sorry. I did consider them. An entrance post and a different read on 27nb than vivax doesn't scream scum to me. I feel like you're mostly basing your HF read on the fact that he wasn't killed first night, and going from there. I'm not the only one with tunnel vision.
Yet I am willing to back off you for now to pursue another possible scum, so...-shrugs- We could both be town firing away erroneously, but I still don't think so. I don't understand town giving someone they think is mafia a present, dude...you should want to give it to one of your strongest town reads. You yourself have made this point multiple times.
Anyway, Trfel. What do you think of that push since we're probably not going to agree on this.
Bats, you're sort of on the right track. In this game NO the gifts are CLEARLY RANDOM there are no roles that get gifts to give. I'm saying SICKLUCKER is being VERY smart. He know there are at least 3 things that make is intro scummy. It's so scummy he intro'd TWICE (Hey guys I'm so JOYFUL). I'll repeat that. His first 2 posts in this game were a Joyful Child claim.
Why did we discard this? Oh it's too scummy to be scum, it's just such a stupid play. Well, it's worked.
Bats, you're sort of on the right track. In this game NO the gifts are CLEARLY RANDOM there are no roles that get gifts to give. I'm saying SICKLUCKER is being VERY smart. He knows there are at least 3 things that make his intro scummy. It's so scummy he intro'd TWICE (Hey guys I'm so JOYFUL). I'll repeat that. His first 2 posts in this game were a Joyful Child claim.
Why did we discard this? Oh it's too scummy to be scum, it's just such a stupid play. Well, it's worked.
LoneMeow the Carol Singer is dead kushm4sta the Scrooge is dead Damdred the Joyful Child is dead Koshi the Disgruntled Retail Worker is dead Kitaman27 the Disgruntled Retail Worker is dead
It is now Day 2. Night comes in . Good Luck
Lonemeow: killed by mafia Kush: visited by Marley Koshi: killed by mafia Kita: killed by mafia (3kp already) Damdred: ?
Do you think there are 4 mafia kp dude? Seriously?
By contrast Oats only has 3 pages, but most of his posts you can seem him keeping things on topic, pushing discussion, questioning reads and pointing out logic flaws.
You clearly didn't read what kita wrote, else you wouldn't be saying this. D1 he made a too scummy to be scum defense of bunnies, said at some point "I'm not really defending her", just pre-lynch he says "Meh I don't really mind if she dies" and who was his scumread throughout this? Froggynoddy.
As for his interactions with froggy on D1, we have a grand total of 1, one, ONE question directed to him that lacks followup and looks completely pointless: "So are you saying you have no strong reads either way".
And with that being said, your post I'm quoting displays you didn't read Oats as carefully as you claim but instead try to depict him in a favourable light for I don't know what reason.
On December 14 2014 03:37 GlowingBear wrote: Make a case on me. You're calling me scum multiple times for things that doesn't make me scum. I want you to say mafias motivation for things you call me scum for.
I've made my case on you multiple times GB. Unlike you I am not under scrutiny. I've explained what I think and why I think it. As for the gut feel that is contributing to it...what have you really done for town? Falsely brought up mass-claiming like that would be helpful. A bunch of jokes. A bunch of partial reads you have to be prodded on. Many promises you fail to carry out. (Your HF case is still unfinished.) Ritoky you were pressuring a little until others started...which, if you're town, why are you pressuring the guy you think is town (cause you're not going to send anything to mafia as town) then flip right back onto HF as soon as others start pressuring Ritoky? There's something wrong about how you're playing, and the scenario with both you and Ritoky as scum works. It is ballsy like Xata said...but assuming that mafia would never play ballsy...lol. If this is the way town thinks, that's the perfect way for mafia to play. Either way its WIFOM as shit.
You're so focused on this matter that you fail to properly evaluate what I've brought for holyflare. What do you think of the case? Of the arguments? Why do you think mafia would make a case on one of the strongest players in the game? Do you see ANY mafia motivation behind it?
I thought ritoky was mafia. I reevaluated it after putting more thought on it, mostly when I've realised HF is sure to be scum.
I'm saying people are town based on gut feelings and probability. I have experience with some players here and I feel comfortable after I see some patterns. Like batsnacks, his townplay is like this. Slam also. It's hard to explain why, because it's more of a feeling than logical reads.
I've townread you for the way you evaluated the present thing on sicklucker. I'm still reading you as town. I want you to get out of the tunnel you're currently in.
I've already responded to your case GB. Your town reads I'm not arguing with, in a general sense. Your points aren't very strong to me. Sorry. I did consider them. An entrance post and a different read on 27nb than vivax doesn't scream scum to me. I feel like you're mostly basing your HF read on the fact that he wasn't killed first night, and going from there. I'm not the only one with tunnel vision.
Yet I am willing to back off you for now to pursue another possible scum, so...-shrugs- We could both be town firing away erroneously, but I still don't think so. I don't understand town giving someone they think is mafia a present, dude...you should want to give it to one of your strongest town reads. You yourself have made this point multiple times.
Anyway, Trfel. What do you think of that push since we're probably not going to agree on this.
Dude, I gave it to someone I thought was null at the time and that I can't properly read, so, if he was town, he would have a power and if he dies, it doesn't matter because it's less one in the game I can't read.
I was going to change the target but I couldn't make it until deadline. That's why my vote is wasted.
By the way, STOP VOTING TUBESOCK BECAUSE HE IS TOWN
On December 14 2014 04:06 Tubesock wrote: EBWOP: mistypes
Bats, you're sort of on the right track. In this game NO the gifts are CLEARLY RANDOM there are no roles that get gifts to give. I'm saying SICKLUCKER is being VERY smart. He knows there are at least 3 things that make his intro scummy. It's so scummy he intro'd TWICE (Hey guys I'm so JOYFUL). I'll repeat that. His first 2 posts in this game were a Joyful Child claim.
Why did we discard this? Oh it's too scummy to be scum, it's just such a stupid play. Well, it's worked.
I'm trying to understand what you're saying.
SL thought that only joyful children got presents. He spent a -long- time not understanding that presents were random. I think he actually thought he had a special role... he even said that he didn't understand named VTs.
LoneMeow the Carol Singer is dead kushm4sta the Scrooge is dead Damdred the Joyful Child is dead Koshi the Disgruntled Retail Worker is dead Kitaman27 the Disgruntled Retail Worker is dead
It is now Day 2. Night comes in . Good Luck
Lonemeow: killed by mafia Kush: visited by Marley Koshi: killed by mafia Kita: killed by mafia (3kp already) Damdred: ?
Do you think there are 4 mafia kp dude? Seriously?
I'm back. Full schedule plus the bikram yoga class from hell. Never again. Anyhow...
I read the thread - couple points I want to bring up from these last few pages:
On December 13 2014 21:00 Tubesock wrote: FecalFeast's lynch doesn't fit in my current worldview. Yeah, he's done a lot of scum things but him flipping mafia while great doesn't help me find his mates. Well, to be honest I haven't gone in with the zealousness I did with my 4 disclosed (In case Sicklucker forgot they are: The_Templar, KelsierSC, Sicklucker, GlowingBear). I have a 5th but I need the right person to flip and sadly that isn't Fecal.
Tube, this quote I do not understand. In what universe as town would you not want to take out a scum (be it FF or whoever) or someone you have tapped for doing "scum things"? I know Rasputin has pointed out association reads already, but Tube, if you think someone's going to flip mafia, you should always want to take them out and push them. The information gathering part makes no sense.
On December 13 2014 21:27 Xatalos wrote: Hm, Froggy. Not looking that good but he did notice Tube's slip so if Tube is scum, Froggy is probably not.
Xatalos, I'm not sure I agree. I actually want to say this is WIFOM. It is possible that because the mistake is or may be so obvious, that Froggy (or any other scum) might also try to bus instead. Not sure if this is sure POE.
Reviewing the cases against Holyflare and GB atm.
Rasputin, I also questioned the logic behind role claiming largely because of the scum KP and couldn't work out a situation in favour of town. GB cited another example where it worked, but was KP/mechanics the same? *shrug*
LoneMeow the Carol Singer is dead kushm4sta the Scrooge is dead Damdred the Joyful Child is dead Koshi the Disgruntled Retail Worker is dead Kitaman27 the Disgruntled Retail Worker is dead
It is now Day 2. Night comes in . Good Luck
Lonemeow: killed by mafia Kush: visited by Marley Koshi: killed by mafia Kita: killed by mafia (3kp already) Damdred: ?
Do you think there are 4 mafia kp dude? Seriously?
I think our Arnold killed Kush.
Still mafia with 4kp, if you consider damdred killed by mafia. And this is too considering that there is a mass murderer.
On December 14 2014 04:06 Tubesock wrote: EBWOP: mistypes
Bats, you're sort of on the right track. In this game NO the gifts are CLEARLY RANDOM there are no roles that get gifts to give. I'm saying SICKLUCKER is being VERY smart. He knows there are at least 3 things that make his intro scummy. It's so scummy he intro'd TWICE (Hey guys I'm so JOYFUL). I'll repeat that. His first 2 posts in this game were a Joyful Child claim.
Why did we discard this? Oh it's too scummy to be scum, it's just such a stupid play. Well, it's worked.
I'm trying to understand what you're saying.
SL thought that only joyful children got presents. He spent a -long- time not understanding that presents were random. I think he actually thought he had a special role... he even said that he didn't understand named VTs.
What I am saying is that by accepting that explanation, you are saying he is stupid. Are you saying he's stupid?
Tell me how that is anything but amazingly stupid play? And that you actually think he is that stupid? We spend all this effort finding the BEST lynch and it's always the one we think is the best PLAYER because we think they are the ones that contribute to mafia the most. IT's not, it's the ones who survives. He is going to outlive us all.
By contrast Oats only has 3 pages, but most of his posts you can seem him keeping things on topic, pushing discussion, questioning reads and pointing out logic flaws.
You clearly didn't read what kita wrote, else you wouldn't be saying this. D1 he made a too scummy to be scum defense of bunnies, said at some point "I'm not really defending her", just pre-lynch he says "Meh I don't really mind if she dies" and who was his scumread throughout this? Froggynoddy.
As for his interactions with froggy on D1, we have a grand total of 1, one, ONE question directed to him that lacks followup and looks completely pointless: "So are you saying you have no strong reads either way".
And with that being said, your post I'm quoting displays you didn't read Oats as carefully as you claim but instead try to depict him in a favourable light for I don't know what reason.
Viva, let me be frank. I have trusted you less and less over your last several posts. Froggynoddy has barely participated so I'd like to see where anyone has had extensive interaction with him. Oats is hard for me to read, but he has made some pretty damn good points this game. One that just so happens to be against your NK analysis FF push, which I have to agree with. Your push makes too many false assumptions.
You also seem very laissez faire about trfel which I find hard to believe in town who has played with him before. Xata I trust. I won't say why right now, beyond he seems to be thinking things through, even if our opinions differ. You just keep calling ppl scum when they disagree, and rather than addressing my trfel case you're nitpicking the sidebar that examines the difference between a short filter with nothing and a short filter that actually contributes something to the game.
TUBESOCK IS TOWN VOTE HF WITH ME THIS IS GOING TO BE A MISLYNCH
TUBESOCK CLEARLY FITS THE PARANOID TOWNIE PERSPECTIVE HE ISN'T EVEN TRYING TO DEFEND HIMSELF, BUT PUSHING AN IMPOSSIBLE LYNCH. HE ISN'T TRYING TO DEFLECT TOWN TO THE SECOND WAGON.
VOTECOUNT CLEARLY SHOWS WASTED VOTES WHICH REINFORCES THE SCENARIO OF A MISLYNCH
On December 14 2014 04:06 Tubesock wrote: EBWOP: mistypes
Bats, you're sort of on the right track. In this game NO the gifts are CLEARLY RANDOM there are no roles that get gifts to give. I'm saying SICKLUCKER is being VERY smart. He knows there are at least 3 things that make his intro scummy. It's so scummy he intro'd TWICE (Hey guys I'm so JOYFUL). I'll repeat that. His first 2 posts in this game were a Joyful Child claim.
Why did we discard this? Oh it's too scummy to be scum, it's just such a stupid play. Well, it's worked.
I'm trying to understand what you're saying.
SL thought that only joyful children got presents. He spent a -long- time not understanding that presents were random. I think he actually thought he had a special role... he even said that he didn't understand named VTs.
What I am saying is that by accepting that explanation, you are saying he is stupid. Are you saying he's stupid?
Tell me how that is anything but amazingly stupid play? And that you actually think he is that stupid? We spend all this effort finding the BEST lynch and it's always the one we think is the best PLAYER because we think they are the ones that contribute to mafia the most. IT's not, it's the ones who survives. He is going to outlive us all.
I am not saying SL is stupid. I'm saying he misunderstood something... and there is plenty of evidence that suggests he did. SL also over thinks stuff a lot. I can easily see SL taking one basic misunderstanding way too far. That's what I think looks like happened.
You're basing your strongest scum read on something that can be explained easily by one simple misunderstanding. You're pretty much betting your life in the game on that.
AND EVEN IF SL IS SCUM he isn't going to get lynched today. Find a better place for your vote.
On December 13 2014 21:00 Tubesock wrote: FecalFeast's lynch doesn't fit in my current worldview. Yeah, he's done a lot of scum things but him flipping mafia while great doesn't help me find his mates. Well, to be honest I haven't gone in with the zealousness I did with my 4 disclosed (In case Sicklucker forgot they are: The_Templar, KelsierSC, Sicklucker, GlowingBear). I have a 5th but I need the right person to flip and sadly that isn't Fecal.
Tube, this quote I do not understand. In what universe as town would you not want to take out a scum (be it FF or whoever) or someone you have tapped for doing "scum things"? I know Rasputin has pointed out association reads already, but Tube, if you think someone's going to flip mafia, you should always want to take them out and push them. The information gathering part makes no sense.
On December 13 2014 21:27 Xatalos wrote: Hm, Froggy. Not looking that good but he did notice Tube's slip so if Tube is scum, Froggy is probably not.
Xatalos, I'm not sure I agree. I actually want to say this is WIFOM. It is possible that because the mistake is or may be so obvious, that Froggy (or any other scum) might also try to bus instead. Not sure if this is sure POE.
Reviewing the cases against Holyflare and GB atm.
Rasputin, I also questioned the logic behind role claiming largely because of the scum KP and couldn't work out a situation in favour of town. GB cited another example where it worked, but was KP/mechanics the same? *shrug*
Honestly, at the time I wasn't sold on FecalFeast. When I thought GlowingBear was mafia, I thought he was there to protect Sicklucker. The reality I think, and I have a huge post that storylines that I will paste in a couple hours, is that Sicklucker is the one who is protecting the mafia.
FecalFeast I was unsure of. I saw KeslierSC and FecalFeast going back and forth. I was thinking it's a distraction, while we centered on what you thought of NinjaBunny and actually hang her. At the time, I thought it was very smart. Kelsier is involved with the beginning of NinjaBunny's downfall and then can "slip" away and find someone else to target for a mlynch. (Assuming he's mafia). Their back and forths were pretty clumsy and half assed I felt. So, I thought Fecal was mafia, the real action was on Ninja. If any attention went towards Kel or Fecal then their other mafia buddies would lend a hand and deflect back if needed.
This is also when Sick came along. And LightningStrike with his irrelevant meta "reads". Notice you haven't seen LS all day? Why, when we are doing most the work. Kels made his obligatory 1 post for the day and claimed he's ill.
Now, read page 102. pay attention to who SICK is "defending". Imagine Glow is town. I hope you see the one I did. He jumped out at me and then with that in mind, he tied 6 mafia together for me.
On December 14 2014 04:20 GlowingBear wrote: TUBESOCK IS TOWN VOTE HF WITH ME THIS IS GOING TO BE A MISLYNCH
TUBESOCK CLEARLY FITS THE PARANOID TOWNIE PERSPECTIVE HE ISN'T EVEN TRYING TO DEFEND HIMSELF, BUT PUSHING AN IMPOSSIBLE LYNCH. HE ISN'T TRYING TO DEFLECT TOWN TO THE SECOND WAGON.
VOTECOUNT CLEARLY SHOWS WASTED VOTES WHICH REINFORCES THE SCENARIO OF A MISLYNCH
EPT
