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On October 15 2014 04:55 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 04:47 VisceraEyes wrote:On October 15 2014 04:44 kushm4sta wrote:On October 15 2014 04:41 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Well i will make sure you'll get lynched tomorrow if you do not play.
Do you think you are playing mafia now kush? This is a serious question. Do you think you have played mafia in this game -- while the game has been going on? yes i do honestly. we have very different notions of what it means to play mafia I guess  Honestly, no you don't. You know what it is to play, and you know this isn't it. You're trolling, admit it. incorrect. If everyone played like rayn, mafia would be a game of pure logic. Low activity players add an element of psychology. You can't look at logic so instead you have to look at behavior and attitude. That's what rayn doesn't understand. And that's why he'll never be good at the game.
No. What you just said probably never makes you good at the game.
When there is no content it becomes a game of guessing. More content = more accurate reads 100%.
Anyone claiming otherwise does not know what they are talking about.
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Maybe it works in voice/video mafia but faking behaviour/attitude is really fucking easy in forum games if you can just post whatever shit you want to.
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On October 15 2014 04:58 kushm4sta wrote:
ya rayn ofc reads are more accurate with more content. but it's a game of imperfect information. the point is use the little information you have to make educated guesses.
that's not how the game works. the game works in a way that everyone who is town SHOULD give enough information about them to be read as town. The information should not be, as you claim here, "silent" or "secret" or "hardly to be analyzed".
But that's enough for mafia theory. Could you answer the questions i asked you?
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well then in case i die i expect you to still answer my questions in the last two pages.
if you don't, VE or DP lynch him.
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btw an offhand question;
why do you refuse to give reads in this particular situation? like do you think whatever you say will make you get shot?
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On October 15 2014 05:14 kushm4sta wrote:
doesn't help town
does help scum
that is regardless of whether or not it's likely for me to get shot.
also it clutters the thread.
also im lazy.
the only points worth answering are the two on top.
both are wrong.
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fuck even if you are a parity cop or doctor you do the most help for the town by claiming right now.
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On October 15 2014 05:22 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 05:18 VisceraEyes wrote:On October 15 2014 05:14 kushm4sta wrote:
doesn't help town
does help scum
Can you elaborate on these two points? I mean, I'm not asking for your reads, so you should be safe to answer this. Like in what situation does giving reads /not/ help town? And in what situation does giving reads help mafia? doens't help town because you can just give the right before the night ends (or during the day phase if there is no chance of getting shot) instead. helps scum because it gives them information about your thoughts to better use their night actions.
This is not right because, you see, townies do not know if you are town or mafia.
That's going to be one less town to make a call on your alignment in case you post at the last minute.
TLDR; that heuristic is crap regardless of your role, if you are town.
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Like that heuristic is the reason night phases are shit and towns lose 24h of valuable time every game.
People just go "woo i'll hold on with my thoughts until the last minute (so noone can ever contribute anything which by default loses 24h of collective towns time)".
I've always hated that. Always. Just because it's so wrong.
For onvce i would hope to play a game where everyone played every phase of the game and scumhunted.
Maybe someday...
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Whatever.
I gotta get up in about 5 hours so:
First of all; Never trust any claims and lynch them!!! Seriously. There is no way either of Hopeless or DarthPunk is fakeclaiming. I am willing to take all the blame of the loss of this game if we do lose because one of them was fakeclaiming and i am wrong. But i am not going to be wrong.
geript is already setting himself up for fakeclaiming doctor. In addition to all said before lynch the shit outta him, he is mafia. Go read the Survivor Series game and his filter. In the game people were set on lynching Corazon D1. Noone wanted to lynch Grackaroni or Oats. See how geript approaches the lynch. He just pushes something he can never get lynched with a weak case. Like in this game. I think he was doing the same thing with Damdred here. There was really no way Damdred was gonna get lynched but still, for some reason geript didn't push Oats who was his second scumread while making a case on him. I don't think the "size" of the case matters but if geript has a scumread on both of the people he would push the one he can realisticly get lynched, he is good enough to figure out. I also don't even think he could actually read Damdred mafia as strong as he claims as i pointed out at the start of N1. Lynch geript, he is mafia.
Then lynch kushmasta. He is not playing. He is more interested in talking about irrelevant stuff than he is interested in playing the game. That is a scumtell. Hell the dude even claims "i really wanted to play" at the start of the game!!!! Does it look like he has any interest in playing? No it doesn't. mafia!kush doesn't play. Go look at his past town games and i bet you can find a game where he gives reads during the night. I am 100% sure you can find a game in his past 5 town games but i just don't care to check it right now. If you don't believe me go check it out.
Then lynch ritoky. He is the definition of blending in. I don't give a shit about his past town games (i only remember the one where he was the bomb or some shit). I can't just remember anything he has said - at all. scum. In one of his posts he said he "sheeped his strong town reads on Oats". If i am alive at D2 i am going to see if there is indication of which of me, VE, DP and geript he read "strong town". because i am sure he didn't read ME as strong town, not by his posting. Check that out. I bet that one stinks as fuck if you want complete proof.
Keep an eye on CR and sqrt. sqrt promised to read, he's been reading for quite a long time already. Expect and demand reads from them. CR can say smart stuff as mafia but usually makes one big post / phase that looks "good" and that's pretty much it. Make both of them play the game and do more stuff they have. They are never mafia together.
Never ever lynch VE. He is not going to be mafia this game.
GB most likely not mafia aswell. If he is scum inactives fucked up the game because there is just no room to lynch GB as there is no time, you absolutely need to figure out other people. That's the priority as GB looks 100x better than those three "heavily mafia" and two "at least possible mafia".
VE & DP please don't lose tha game in case i die. Lynch those fucker scum for the win!
Goodluck. Godspeed.
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GlowingBear you need to answer these questions:
1) What did you gather from your reaction test. Clear answers not some generic bullshit about what would mafia most likely do. Who is mafia and why regarding your test? You retracted so you MUST have figured out something.If you haven't you are scum.
2) How can you have POSSIBLY thought Hopeless is mafia in this situation where mafia shoots DarthPunk? Like do you think there is ANY chance Hopeless fakeclaims prime -> shoots the second town prime -> in case town has a power role it's gg Hopeless is outed on this day or the next one.
3) Why is sqrt's post @ D2 start good? Show me the good things about that post because i think it's terrible and contradicting itself.
If you are going to say the only thing you gathered from your reaction test is that Hopeless is town i will lynch the fuck out of you because we already knew that on N1 as per what i already fucking said. If that's the ONLY thing you got and can "reasonably" explain you are just confusing the town and you will not get out of this one alive.
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ritoky your vote analysis is crap. you can't do vote analysis until there is flipped mafia.
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Like sqrt's big post is about:
"I like GB because setup talk (and doesn't believe all primes are town).
I don't know about geript. I don't like him and his talk on setup (which was good when GB did it, just with more words). But hey i'll vote for this dude geript is sold on being mafia based on setup talk in which i already contradicted myself. I just did it again."
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On October 15 2014 16:34 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 16:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
ritoky your vote analysis is crap. you can't do vote analysis until there is flipped mafia. you're wrong, i have found multiple mafia easily from my vote analysis and been killed early in games because my vote analysis is strong on these forums. now answer my question. why are you not following through at all on me, even though in almost every one of your reads posts you mention me as a top mafia candidate?
because i don't think you are most likely to be mafia and i can only lynch 1 person / day.
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On October 15 2014 16:34 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 16:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
ritoky your vote analysis is crap. you can't do vote analysis until there is flipped mafia. you're wrong, i have found multiple mafia easily from my vote analysis and been killed early in games because my vote analysis is strong on these forums. now answer my question. why are you not following through at all on me, even though in almost every one of your reads posts you mention me as a top mafia candidate?
So what's your analysis? There is no analysis in your "vote analysis post" for starters.
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Then make a case on me and call me mafia.
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On October 15 2014 16:49 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 16:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:On October 15 2014 16:34 ritoky wrote:On October 15 2014 16:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
ritoky your vote analysis is crap. you can't do vote analysis until there is flipped mafia. you're wrong, i have found multiple mafia easily from my vote analysis and been killed early in games because my vote analysis is strong on these forums. now answer my question. why are you not following through at all on me, even though in almost every one of your reads posts you mention me as a top mafia candidate? So what's your analysis? There is no analysis in your "vote analysis post" for starters. with one sample of votes it is hard to conclude anything solid, usually you need two. some of my initial thoughts are: 1) rayn was willing to vote off pretty much everyone except the person he most frequently listed as a scum read. 2) kush's vote combined with his lack of play and worse than me by a mile; yet no one really seems to be pressuring him other than for policy reasons. still mulling some things about the rest of it over though.
So first of all you call me mafia (kindish?) for not wanting to lynch geript and now wanting to lynch him? well i do re-evaluate the game when new information appears. In this case the lynch and it's results. You also said i voted for "all the lead wagons except for geript and ritoky". That is a really biased wording because i in fact voted for GB, which i had good reasons to. Then i voted for sqrt which i also had good reasons to. I had Oats as mafia and i voted for him. You cannot just look at what someone voted for without analyzing the reasoning behind the votes. If my votes are that "bad" tell me where my reasoning for the votes is bad or where does it not make sense. You can't just say "you did this you are mafia" without telling WHY it does make one mafia. You are not telling why.
I also find it funny that you basically call me scum for some generic things without reasoning when the confirmed town DarthPunk did basically the exact same thing speaking in generic manner. How does it make sense i am mafia for what i did and DarthPunk the confirmed townie did the exact same thing?
Third; I am pretty much the ONLY person pressuring kushmasta, the dude you seem to be reading as mafia by your vote analysis. How does it make any sense you read me as mafia if kushmasta is in your opinion mafia and vice versa? It's literally impossible we are both mafia because if i am mafia i am setting myself into a position where i can't deny voting for kushmasta too long and if he is also mafia that's just really fucking bad mafia play. Why don't you realize that?
On October 15 2014 16:54 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 16:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Then make a case on me and call me mafia. i have a question for you about myself and CR: we both voted for oats about 10-15 minutes before the deadline. at the time when CR voted, oats was 3 votes clear of being lynched and he unvoted sqrt (who was tied for 2nd). when i voted for sqrt, he was 4 votes clear of being lynched and it was my first vote. do you think either of these are alignment indicative? and if 1 or both of us are mafia, what would be the reason we would have for voting on someone we knew would flip town when they are about to die?
I don't think either of your votes are alignment indicative. Both of you could make that vote as any alignment.
Question to you: Which ones of your strong townreads you followed to Oats lynch on D1?
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....and if 1 or both of us are mafia, what would be the reason we would have for voting on someone we knew would flip town when they are about to die?
This is WIFOM. There are plenty of reasons to do that as mafia. Like taking a stance, seeming like you are interested in the lynch while you in fact are not, making people think it's stupid like you just said, etc etc...
As i said it does not make you mafia but it does definitely not make you town. It's pure WIFOM.
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On October 15 2014 17:20 ritoky wrote:Regarding all of the early stuff in your post: 1) you don't follow through strongly on some of your reads. you elect to interact extensively regarding game philosophy with kush, you play flippyfloppy with geript and VE, yet some of your reads that you reference very frequently you do absolutely nothing to pursue or develop any further even though there is usually content to go through or a person to interact with. DP didn't have that deficiency imo. So yes, for that and a couple other reasons you are leaning mafia for me. Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 17:09 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Question to you: Which ones of your strong townreads you followed to Oats lynch on D1? VE and CR
That is totally wrong. Point out to everyone where i do not do so.
I have been extremely clear about who i think is mafia and why my reads change when they do. I have been the MOST clear person regarding this in the game. Point out where i do not follow through on my reads and not just make some statements without any proof. I find it very hard to believe you actually think this is the case but if you really think so i want you to explain why so i can get a better read on you. It's good that you are actually having an opinion on something, now back up what you say with some actual evidence.
On October 15 2014 17:23 ritoky wrote:
the 2 got deleted when i was erasing the rest of your quote. rip.
2 was something like this:
2) your pressuring on kush is primarily placed in policy reasons and most of your interaction with him is regarding personal philosophy on how to play. your discussion with him prompted 0 information that could give you a read. that's not pressuring him.
How is it possible to have any other reason for thinking kush is mafia other than "he is not playing the game"?
Do you suggest i didn't try to get information from kush during N1?
How do you suggest i should have approached the situation on N1? What should have i asked him about then?
On October 15 2014 17:25 ritoky wrote:
further, as i have said in many games, i find that around 80% of the time the first person to list the lurkers in the game and suggest killing them or that they are the mafia is mafia. i don't know if you were precisely the first; i plan to go back and look, but you were very early on in the running for lynch the lurkers.
So then you must think GlowingBear is mafia. Go back and re-read. This is another contradiction because I EVEN POINTED OUT GLOWINGBEAR SUDDENLY WANTED TO LYNCH ALL THE LURKERS when he was on the line of getting lynched!!!
Your game is all over the place ritoky, and the compilation of your reads doesn't make any sense at all because you are accusing all the people who cannot be mafia together. rofl. What the fuck are you doing?
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On October 15 2014 17:47 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 17:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:On October 15 2014 17:20 ritoky wrote:Regarding all of the early stuff in your post: 1) you don't follow through strongly on some of your reads. you elect to interact extensively regarding game philosophy with kush, you play flippyfloppy with geript and VE, yet some of your reads that you reference very frequently you do absolutely nothing to pursue or develop any further even though there is usually content to go through or a person to interact with. DP didn't have that deficiency imo. So yes, for that and a couple other reasons you are leaning mafia for me. On October 15 2014 17:09 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Question to you: Which ones of your strong townreads you followed to Oats lynch on D1? VE and CR That is totally wrong. Point out to everyone where i do not do so. I have been extremely clear about who i think is mafia and why my reads change when they do. I have been the MOST clear person regarding this in the game. Point out where i do not follow through on my reads and not just make some statements without any proof. I find it very hard to believe you actually think this is the case but if you really think so i want you to explain why so i can get a better read on you. It's good that you are actually having an opinion on something, now back up what you say with some actual evidence. On October 15 2014 17:23 ritoky wrote:
the 2 got deleted when i was erasing the rest of your quote. rip.
2 was something like this:
2) your pressuring on kush is primarily placed in policy reasons and most of your interaction with him is regarding personal philosophy on how to play. your discussion with him prompted 0 information that could give you a read. that's not pressuring him. How is it possible to have any other reason for thinking kush is mafia other than "he is not playing the game"? Do you suggest i didn't try to get information from kush during N1? How do you suggest i should have approached the situation on N1? What should have i asked him about then? On October 15 2014 17:25 ritoky wrote:
further, as i have said in many games, i find that around 80% of the time the first person to list the lurkers in the game and suggest killing them or that they are the mafia is mafia. i don't know if you were precisely the first; i plan to go back and look, but you were very early on in the running for lynch the lurkers. So then you must think GlowingBear is mafia. Go back and re-read. This is another contradiction because I EVEN POINTED OUT GLOWINGBEAR SUDDENLY WANTED TO LYNCH ALL THE LURKERS when he was on the line of getting lynched!!! Your game is all over the place ritoky, and the compilation of your reads doesn't make any sense at all because you are accusing all the people who cannot be mafia together. rofl. What the fuck are you doing? 1st part: your read on me. you actively refuse to read my posts until now yet have me listed as mafia. 2nd part: i think his throwaway vote on a confirmed townie is a good place to start on solid info on kush. 3rd part: it's only really the 1st person that matters. and yes i think GB is mafia, i have for a while. him wanting to do it doesn't mean you didn't do it as well.
On October 15 2014 17:53 ritoky wrote:1st: Again. I have already stated why i am not focusing on you atm. You are not my top suspect and i do not want to lynch you atm. wtf is this? should i be pushing all my reads that are not solely town? that's retarded. you don't focus on too many places at once. 2nd: That is a really bad observation. So why am i not town then because i basically hard defended that said confirmed town for the whole fucking D1 when it would have been the easiest mislynch ever? Also Sn0 was NOT a confirmed townie on D1, so you are twisting the facts. 3rd: so only the first person matters but i did it TOO so it makes also ME scummy?????!?!? hahahahah! Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 17:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Your game is all over the place ritoky, and the compilation of your reads doesn't make any sense at all because you are accusing all the people who cannot be mafia together. rofl. What the fuck are you doing? Who is mutually exclusive from who from being mafia together? I wasn't aware that people are so strongly associated that it is actually impossible for them to be mafia together. I mean, bussing isn't a thing right? Please enlighten me on this perfect knowledge you have. Also your defense seems quite exaggerated and over the top especially from someone you have thought is scum for a long time. Especially when I have only stated I think you're leaning mafia for me. GB is pretty clearly the lynch for me today unless something jesus worthy happens.
It is impossible that i am mafia with either GB or kush.
If you can't see that i'll lynch you today. So you better drop either me or both of those guys on your scumlist in case you are town. The reasons are obvious for anyone who has paid any attention to the game and therefore i am not willing to elaborate on them. Yes, bussing is a thing. Unnecessary bussing is not, at least it's not for me. How the FUCK does it make any sense i - as mafia - tell people to lynch all claims - then GB - as my partner - fucking fakeclaims the next second? NEVER! If i was mafia with kush i would just call him an idiot and ignore him because i could very well do that, every-fucking-body has ignored him so far so i could do that aswell, easily. But no, instead of that you are suggesting there is a possibility that i am bussing him, for no fucking reason?!?!?!?!
Dude you are either playing quite badly or scum. Which is it?
And no, i am not defending myself because there is nothing to defend to. I am trying to figure out your alignment and so far you're not looking quite dandy because you make absolutely no sense in ANYTHING you say. You are just throwing shit left and right without actually thinking what anything people actually say means.
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EPT
