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On August 23 2014 23:53 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2014 23:10 Xatalos wrote:On August 23 2014 22:54 KelsierSC wrote:On August 23 2014 21:47 Xatalos wrote:On August 23 2014 21:18 KelsierSC wrote:On August 23 2014 20:55 Xatalos wrote:On August 23 2014 20:54 KelsierSC wrote:On August 23 2014 20:27 Xatalos wrote:
So KSC you're scumreading me because 1) I'm townreading yamato 2) pushing rayn? That's really weak... Besides I already explained to you that I didn't notice rayn's softpush on yamato earlier, or maybe I noticed it but forgot it soon after... Dunno how that makes me scum. And the Damdred thing only happened AFTER I nullread rayn so that + the yamato thing Hapa noticed made me vote. It is more than that though and you trying to simplify it to make it look weak is really fucking scummy Well I already completely destroyed your earlier "case" and that's what was left of it on your most recent post about me. Completely destroyed? This never happened at all. You gave some non sensical posts about "forgetting to push" let's be real. With one of your arguments being factually false, one of them being a nulltell rather than scumtell, and the others actually being towntells (for me, not in general), I think it's pretty destroyed. This fallacy that you destroyed my argument is completely ridiculous. 1) The older points that you are scum still exist. You had a terrible first list post I didn't like any of your reads, to me that means you are not reading the game correctly that makes you scum to me and a good lynch. I didn't like your weird Dam interactions and also you had a bunch of null reads with everyone either "maybe town could be scum" like it is just non commital gibberish. 2) The main sticking point is when Hapa came out with his read, you had called rayn maybe town, but then as soon as hapa came out you jumped on it and you sheeped all his reasons. ESPECIALLY the "attack" on yamato which apparently hadn't noticed. 3) You then gave a bunch of shitty reasons why yam is town a lot of them were just factually incorrect about how he is giving his reads and seems up for this game which just isn't true, like yam is really scummy to me and you having the same read as him and reading him town is really scummy. 4) This is just my personal opinion here but you seem to be trying to make a lot of posts to seem town but a lot of them are just nothing. Like "where is robik, this is weird" It gives the impression you are trying to figure things out but it is just a lot of garbage trying to throw suspicon. 5 ll of my reads besides the Masons are now -1, 0, 1 or 2 points This is what bugs me, you are really happy to sheep any read you get but you have none of those people as your town. 1) Actually wrong reads (especially very early, initial reads) come more often from town. As scum you have perfect information so it's easy to make your reads somewhat believable. I always craft my reads carefully as scum to be as believable and focused as possible. So I don't really see your point here even if you're somehow right about everything and I'm wrong about everything (no way). The Damdred vote was just something to start the day with, nothing that serious. Btw my notes were my real-time thoughts as I read the thread and nothing like a case or anything. Hard to be immediately 100% sure early on as you read stuff. 2) False. I never called rayn town or even "maybe town". At best null. What you're exaggerating is when I said that "I could see the town motivation behind making that stunt". That's not even any longer the case since clearly there was none - he immediately abandoned the whole idea since my notes matched with my play and there was nothing to push me with. 3) Just stupid. Experienced scum players NEVER, I repeat NEVER do stuff like hard-defend each other and push stuff together. It's about the same as claiming Masons together. This is what gets newb scumteams killed. 4) Go read Arnie Got a Gun Mafia if you think fluff posts indicate scum Xatalos. 5) +2 towny is already somewhat town. And if the argument is good, it's not like I have to 100% townread the one who presented it. Explain why you townread yamato though your reasons dont make sense why were you so happy to sheep hapas read i dont really need to read other games, it isnt hard to mimic your town play if your town play is to have no reads what so ever.
Again, he's absolutely useless and unmotivated as scum. He doesn't show emotion. That's from my experience. I don't like how he's lurking so much and avoiding hot topics of discussion though, plus Hapa made some decent points about how he doesn't have real confidence in his reads and how he leaves the thread at crucial points. So currently he's only +1 and he will drop further if his lurking behavior continues.
I've been concerned about rayn all game and I've never thought he's town, something I've ALWAYS concluded at some point during D1 if he's town. However, I didn't want to lynch him based on a gut feeling because 1) he'd be an NK magnet as town 2) he could become a real asset as town at some point. Then he did a really shady push on Damdred where I really doubt he even believed in it himself (all his arguments were just wrong / misinterpreted). I was really wavering on believing he could possibly be town. Just then Hapa came out with an additional point pointing to scum rayn and I decided that I'd rather lynch probable scum rather than flip a coin (on yamato who had barely posted at that point, and actually yamato returned to the thread around then as well while showing some of his towny traits - emotion, constantly posting stuff etc.). So that's why.
I'd hardly say I have "no reads whatsoever" when I townread you and scumread rayn. My other reads are still under evaluation. Onegu is probably town too though because he instantly focused on figuring out the game when he started posting earlier. As scum he's pretty... unfocused.
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On August 23 2014 23:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +3) Just stupid. Experienced scum players NEVER, I repeat NEVER do stuff like hard-defend each other and push stuff together. It's about the same as claiming Masons together. This is what gets newb scumteams killed. I have proven this statement to be false before Xatalos even made this post...
Oh yeah, I think you mentioned that you like to act as a team in the thread. Well that's really risky and prone to failure. You *should* know that I'd never do something like that from your experience with me though.
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On August 24 2014 00:19 IAmRobik wrote:
Wait, what?!?! Why aren't hapa and Yamato voting for rayn. They're sooooooo fucking convinced he's scum. Did something change since pg 40?
Hapa isn't as convinced anymore though (because of the spam haha) and dunno what yamato is doing.
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It's hard to believe your promise if your #2 scum is town though (when you *should* townread me if you're town I'm quite certain of that).
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On August 24 2014 00:53 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2014 00:09 Xatalos wrote:On August 23 2014 23:53 KelsierSC wrote:On August 23 2014 23:10 Xatalos wrote:On August 23 2014 22:54 KelsierSC wrote:On August 23 2014 21:47 Xatalos wrote:On August 23 2014 21:18 KelsierSC wrote:On August 23 2014 20:55 Xatalos wrote:On August 23 2014 20:54 KelsierSC wrote:On August 23 2014 20:27 Xatalos wrote:
So KSC you're scumreading me because 1) I'm townreading yamato 2) pushing rayn? That's really weak... Besides I already explained to you that I didn't notice rayn's softpush on yamato earlier, or maybe I noticed it but forgot it soon after... Dunno how that makes me scum. And the Damdred thing only happened AFTER I nullread rayn so that + the yamato thing Hapa noticed made me vote. It is more than that though and you trying to simplify it to make it look weak is really fucking scummy Well I already completely destroyed your earlier "case" and that's what was left of it on your most recent post about me. Completely destroyed? This never happened at all. You gave some non sensical posts about "forgetting to push" let's be real. With one of your arguments being factually false, one of them being a nulltell rather than scumtell, and the others actually being towntells (for me, not in general), I think it's pretty destroyed. This fallacy that you destroyed my argument is completely ridiculous. 1) The older points that you are scum still exist. You had a terrible first list post I didn't like any of your reads, to me that means you are not reading the game correctly that makes you scum to me and a good lynch. I didn't like your weird Dam interactions and also you had a bunch of null reads with everyone either "maybe town could be scum" like it is just non commital gibberish. 2) The main sticking point is when Hapa came out with his read, you had called rayn maybe town, but then as soon as hapa came out you jumped on it and you sheeped all his reasons. ESPECIALLY the "attack" on yamato which apparently hadn't noticed. 3) You then gave a bunch of shitty reasons why yam is town a lot of them were just factually incorrect about how he is giving his reads and seems up for this game which just isn't true, like yam is really scummy to me and you having the same read as him and reading him town is really scummy. 4) This is just my personal opinion here but you seem to be trying to make a lot of posts to seem town but a lot of them are just nothing. Like "where is robik, this is weird" It gives the impression you are trying to figure things out but it is just a lot of garbage trying to throw suspicon. 5 ll of my reads besides the Masons are now -1, 0, 1 or 2 points This is what bugs me, you are really happy to sheep any read you get but you have none of those people as your town. 1) Actually wrong reads (especially very early, initial reads) come more often from town. As scum you have perfect information so it's easy to make your reads somewhat believable. I always craft my reads carefully as scum to be as believable and focused as possible. So I don't really see your point here even if you're somehow right about everything and I'm wrong about everything (no way). The Damdred vote was just something to start the day with, nothing that serious. Btw my notes were my real-time thoughts as I read the thread and nothing like a case or anything. Hard to be immediately 100% sure early on as you read stuff. 2) False. I never called rayn town or even "maybe town". At best null. What you're exaggerating is when I said that "I could see the town motivation behind making that stunt". That's not even any longer the case since clearly there was none - he immediately abandoned the whole idea since my notes matched with my play and there was nothing to push me with. 3) Just stupid. Experienced scum players NEVER, I repeat NEVER do stuff like hard-defend each other and push stuff together. It's about the same as claiming Masons together. This is what gets newb scumteams killed. 4) Go read Arnie Got a Gun Mafia if you think fluff posts indicate scum Xatalos. 5) +2 towny is already somewhat town. And if the argument is good, it's not like I have to 100% townread the one who presented it. Explain why you townread yamato though your reasons dont make sense why were you so happy to sheep hapas read i dont really need to read other games, it isnt hard to mimic your town play if your town play is to have no reads what so ever. Again, he's absolutely useless and unmotivated as scum. He doesn't show emotion. That's from my experience. I don't like how he's lurking so much and avoiding hot topics of discussion though, plus Hapa made some decent points about how he doesn't have real confidence in his reads and how he leaves the thread at crucial points. So currently he's only +1 and he will drop further if his lurking behavior continues. I've been concerned about rayn all game and I've never thought he's town, something I've ALWAYS concluded at some point during D1 if he's town. However, I didn't want to lynch him based on a gut feeling because 1) he'd be an NK magnet as town 2) he could become a real asset as town at some point. Then he did a really shady push on Damdred where I really doubt he even believed in it himself (all his arguments were just wrong / misinterpreted). I was really wavering on believing he could possibly be town. Just then Hapa came out with an additional point pointing to scum rayn and I decided that I'd rather lynch probable scum rather than flip a coin (on yamato who had barely posted at that point, and actually yamato returned to the thread around then as well while showing some of his towny traits - emotion, constantly posting stuff etc.). So that's why. I'd hardly say I have "no reads whatsoever" when I townread you and scumread rayn. My other reads are still under evaluation. Onegu is probably town too though because he instantly focused on figuring out the game when he started posting earlier. As scum he's pretty... unfocused. I think we must just disagree on how Yam has played this game, For me he has tried to BW that push on rayn and then kind of disappeared and posted random bullshit it seems unmotivated and useless. What bothers me most about your attack on rayn is the timing of things, I just don't like how you later posted the notes on rayn that included the thing he said about yamato, but you never even brought that up until Hapa remembered it for you. Like that seems a big thing to forget on someone you are wavering town on. you said that everyone has a score of "-1 to 2" so I don't think any of that is concrete. Also I am curious you town reading me when I read Yam as scum and rayn as town.
You can be wrong and town. It happens all the time, especially since you don't know me or anyone else here. By the way currently my points go from -3 to 3. Even so I'm really a bit conservative with my points. Even GB & turtlevine are only 8 when they're pretty much confirmed. An extreme townread would be something like 5 or 6.
Hm. Well I guess we'll see about yamato. It's a bit hard to explain, but his tone is just so different. In the PYP game all his posts were bored / resigned. Here he's actually excited to play (that's the feeling I got). I can't say he hasn't been useless, but he's useless as town too.
I'm not completely sure what you mean there? Obviously I added the scummy 1&2&3 points to my notes only *after* I thought of them - when Damdred had just made his push on Damdred and Hapa had started his push. It's not like I had them in my notes all along (LOL how could that even be possible - the Damdred thing happened way after I posted my notes earlier).
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On August 24 2014 00:54 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2014 00:42 Xatalos wrote:
It's hard to believe your promise if your #2 scum is town though (when you *should* townread me if you're town I'm quite certain of that). Xat can you give me an explanation of all the town things you have done this game. To be honest anything about your "playstyle" being similar to other town games doesn't cut it for me because you have the easiest style to mimic
I guess. Not sure what good it does coming from me specifically though.
1) Biggest filter (basically never (was jat filter the biggest in Championship though?) comes from scum because it's harder to post fake posts than to genuinely post whatever you think)
2) Went through tons of past games and filters to help with my reads
3) Participated in every possible discussion topic
4) Gave my opinion on anything asked openly
5) Went through the effort of writing down stuff from the thread and constantly, I mean constantly evaluating my reads
From the top of my head
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On August 24 2014 01:12 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2014 01:08 Xatalos wrote:On August 24 2014 00:53 KelsierSC wrote:On August 24 2014 00:09 Xatalos wrote:On August 23 2014 23:53 KelsierSC wrote:On August 23 2014 23:10 Xatalos wrote:On August 23 2014 22:54 KelsierSC wrote:On August 23 2014 21:47 Xatalos wrote:On August 23 2014 21:18 KelsierSC wrote:On August 23 2014 20:55 Xatalos wrote:
[quote]
Well I already completely destroyed your earlier "case" and that's what was left of it on your most recent post about me. Completely destroyed? This never happened at all. You gave some non sensical posts about "forgetting to push" let's be real. With one of your arguments being factually false, one of them being a nulltell rather than scumtell, and the others actually being towntells (for me, not in general), I think it's pretty destroyed. This fallacy that you destroyed my argument is completely ridiculous. 1) The older points that you are scum still exist. You had a terrible first list post I didn't like any of your reads, to me that means you are not reading the game correctly that makes you scum to me and a good lynch. I didn't like your weird Dam interactions and also you had a bunch of null reads with everyone either "maybe town could be scum" like it is just non commital gibberish. 2) The main sticking point is when Hapa came out with his read, you had called rayn maybe town, but then as soon as hapa came out you jumped on it and you sheeped all his reasons. ESPECIALLY the "attack" on yamato which apparently hadn't noticed. 3) You then gave a bunch of shitty reasons why yam is town a lot of them were just factually incorrect about how he is giving his reads and seems up for this game which just isn't true, like yam is really scummy to me and you having the same read as him and reading him town is really scummy. 4) This is just my personal opinion here but you seem to be trying to make a lot of posts to seem town but a lot of them are just nothing. Like "where is robik, this is weird" It gives the impression you are trying to figure things out but it is just a lot of garbage trying to throw suspicon. 5 ll of my reads besides the Masons are now -1, 0, 1 or 2 points This is what bugs me, you are really happy to sheep any read you get but you have none of those people as your town. 1) Actually wrong reads (especially very early, initial reads) come more often from town. As scum you have perfect information so it's easy to make your reads somewhat believable. I always craft my reads carefully as scum to be as believable and focused as possible. So I don't really see your point here even if you're somehow right about everything and I'm wrong about everything (no way). The Damdred vote was just something to start the day with, nothing that serious. Btw my notes were my real-time thoughts as I read the thread and nothing like a case or anything. Hard to be immediately 100% sure early on as you read stuff. 2) False. I never called rayn town or even "maybe town". At best null. What you're exaggerating is when I said that "I could see the town motivation behind making that stunt". That's not even any longer the case since clearly there was none - he immediately abandoned the whole idea since my notes matched with my play and there was nothing to push me with. 3) Just stupid. Experienced scum players NEVER, I repeat NEVER do stuff like hard-defend each other and push stuff together. It's about the same as claiming Masons together. This is what gets newb scumteams killed. 4) Go read Arnie Got a Gun Mafia if you think fluff posts indicate scum Xatalos. 5) +2 towny is already somewhat town. And if the argument is good, it's not like I have to 100% townread the one who presented it. Explain why you townread yamato though your reasons dont make sense why were you so happy to sheep hapas read i dont really need to read other games, it isnt hard to mimic your town play if your town play is to have no reads what so ever. Again, he's absolutely useless and unmotivated as scum. He doesn't show emotion. That's from my experience. I don't like how he's lurking so much and avoiding hot topics of discussion though, plus Hapa made some decent points about how he doesn't have real confidence in his reads and how he leaves the thread at crucial points. So currently he's only +1 and he will drop further if his lurking behavior continues. I've been concerned about rayn all game and I've never thought he's town, something I've ALWAYS concluded at some point during D1 if he's town. However, I didn't want to lynch him based on a gut feeling because 1) he'd be an NK magnet as town 2) he could become a real asset as town at some point. Then he did a really shady push on Damdred where I really doubt he even believed in it himself (all his arguments were just wrong / misinterpreted). I was really wavering on believing he could possibly be town. Just then Hapa came out with an additional point pointing to scum rayn and I decided that I'd rather lynch probable scum rather than flip a coin (on yamato who had barely posted at that point, and actually yamato returned to the thread around then as well while showing some of his towny traits - emotion, constantly posting stuff etc.). So that's why. I'd hardly say I have "no reads whatsoever" when I townread you and scumread rayn. My other reads are still under evaluation. Onegu is probably town too though because he instantly focused on figuring out the game when he started posting earlier. As scum he's pretty... unfocused. I think we must just disagree on how Yam has played this game, For me he has tried to BW that push on rayn and then kind of disappeared and posted random bullshit it seems unmotivated and useless. What bothers me most about your attack on rayn is the timing of things, I just don't like how you later posted the notes on rayn that included the thing he said about yamato, but you never even brought that up until Hapa remembered it for you. Like that seems a big thing to forget on someone you are wavering town on. you said that everyone has a score of "-1 to 2" so I don't think any of that is concrete. Also I am curious you town reading me when I read Yam as scum and rayn as town. You can be wrong and town. It happens all the time, especially since you don't know me or anyone else here. By the way currently my points go from -3 to 3. Even so I'm really a bit conservative with my points. Even GB & turtlevine are only 8 when they're pretty much confirmed. An extreme townread would be something like 5 or 6. Hm. Well I guess we'll see about yamato. It's a bit hard to explain, but his tone is just so different. In the PYP game all his posts were bored / resigned. Here he's actually excited to play (that's the feeling I got). I can't say he hasn't been useless, but he's useless as town too. I'm not completely sure what you mean there? Obviously I added the scummy 1&2&3 points to my notes only *after* I thought of them - when Damdred had just made his push on Damdred and Hapa had started his push. It's not like I had them in my notes all along (LOL how could that even be possible - the Damdred thing happened way after I posted my notes earlier). With the notes thing I am specifically talking about the yamato thing., you posted notes once that didnt have the yamato question but the 2nd notes you posted did, this was way after the original question rayn asked. Your reads are just too different to mine at the moment Xat.
Could you explain your current reads in full? I'll give you my opinion on them.
Yeah I didn't notice the yamato point in rayn's filter since it was so huge until Hapa brought it up. I only added it to my notes after Hapa mentioned it. Not really sure what's unclear here.
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On August 24 2014 01:20 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2014 01:17 Xatalos wrote:On August 24 2014 01:12 KelsierSC wrote:On August 24 2014 01:08 Xatalos wrote:On August 24 2014 00:53 KelsierSC wrote:On August 24 2014 00:09 Xatalos wrote:On August 23 2014 23:53 KelsierSC wrote:On August 23 2014 23:10 Xatalos wrote:On August 23 2014 22:54 KelsierSC wrote:On August 23 2014 21:47 Xatalos wrote:
[quote]
With one of your arguments being factually false, one of them being a nulltell rather than scumtell, and the others actually being towntells (for me, not in general), I think it's pretty destroyed. This fallacy that you destroyed my argument is completely ridiculous. 1) The older points that you are scum still exist. You had a terrible first list post I didn't like any of your reads, to me that means you are not reading the game correctly that makes you scum to me and a good lynch. I didn't like your weird Dam interactions and also you had a bunch of null reads with everyone either "maybe town could be scum" like it is just non commital gibberish. 2) The main sticking point is when Hapa came out with his read, you had called rayn maybe town, but then as soon as hapa came out you jumped on it and you sheeped all his reasons. ESPECIALLY the "attack" on yamato which apparently hadn't noticed. 3) You then gave a bunch of shitty reasons why yam is town a lot of them were just factually incorrect about how he is giving his reads and seems up for this game which just isn't true, like yam is really scummy to me and you having the same read as him and reading him town is really scummy. 4) This is just my personal opinion here but you seem to be trying to make a lot of posts to seem town but a lot of them are just nothing. Like "where is robik, this is weird" It gives the impression you are trying to figure things out but it is just a lot of garbage trying to throw suspicon. 5 ll of my reads besides the Masons are now -1, 0, 1 or 2 points This is what bugs me, you are really happy to sheep any read you get but you have none of those people as your town. 1) Actually wrong reads (especially very early, initial reads) come more often from town. As scum you have perfect information so it's easy to make your reads somewhat believable. I always craft my reads carefully as scum to be as believable and focused as possible. So I don't really see your point here even if you're somehow right about everything and I'm wrong about everything (no way). The Damdred vote was just something to start the day with, nothing that serious. Btw my notes were my real-time thoughts as I read the thread and nothing like a case or anything. Hard to be immediately 100% sure early on as you read stuff. 2) False. I never called rayn town or even "maybe town". At best null. What you're exaggerating is when I said that "I could see the town motivation behind making that stunt". That's not even any longer the case since clearly there was none - he immediately abandoned the whole idea since my notes matched with my play and there was nothing to push me with. 3) Just stupid. Experienced scum players NEVER, I repeat NEVER do stuff like hard-defend each other and push stuff together. It's about the same as claiming Masons together. This is what gets newb scumteams killed. 4) Go read Arnie Got a Gun Mafia if you think fluff posts indicate scum Xatalos. 5) +2 towny is already somewhat town. And if the argument is good, it's not like I have to 100% townread the one who presented it. Explain why you townread yamato though your reasons dont make sense why were you so happy to sheep hapas read i dont really need to read other games, it isnt hard to mimic your town play if your town play is to have no reads what so ever. Again, he's absolutely useless and unmotivated as scum. He doesn't show emotion. That's from my experience. I don't like how he's lurking so much and avoiding hot topics of discussion though, plus Hapa made some decent points about how he doesn't have real confidence in his reads and how he leaves the thread at crucial points. So currently he's only +1 and he will drop further if his lurking behavior continues. I've been concerned about rayn all game and I've never thought he's town, something I've ALWAYS concluded at some point during D1 if he's town. However, I didn't want to lynch him based on a gut feeling because 1) he'd be an NK magnet as town 2) he could become a real asset as town at some point. Then he did a really shady push on Damdred where I really doubt he even believed in it himself (all his arguments were just wrong / misinterpreted). I was really wavering on believing he could possibly be town. Just then Hapa came out with an additional point pointing to scum rayn and I decided that I'd rather lynch probable scum rather than flip a coin (on yamato who had barely posted at that point, and actually yamato returned to the thread around then as well while showing some of his towny traits - emotion, constantly posting stuff etc.). So that's why. I'd hardly say I have "no reads whatsoever" when I townread you and scumread rayn. My other reads are still under evaluation. Onegu is probably town too though because he instantly focused on figuring out the game when he started posting earlier. As scum he's pretty... unfocused. I think we must just disagree on how Yam has played this game, For me he has tried to BW that push on rayn and then kind of disappeared and posted random bullshit it seems unmotivated and useless. What bothers me most about your attack on rayn is the timing of things, I just don't like how you later posted the notes on rayn that included the thing he said about yamato, but you never even brought that up until Hapa remembered it for you. Like that seems a big thing to forget on someone you are wavering town on. you said that everyone has a score of "-1 to 2" so I don't think any of that is concrete. Also I am curious you town reading me when I read Yam as scum and rayn as town. You can be wrong and town. It happens all the time, especially since you don't know me or anyone else here. By the way currently my points go from -3 to 3. Even so I'm really a bit conservative with my points. Even GB & turtlevine are only 8 when they're pretty much confirmed. An extreme townread would be something like 5 or 6. Hm. Well I guess we'll see about yamato. It's a bit hard to explain, but his tone is just so different. In the PYP game all his posts were bored / resigned. Here he's actually excited to play (that's the feeling I got). I can't say he hasn't been useless, but he's useless as town too. I'm not completely sure what you mean there? Obviously I added the scummy 1&2&3 points to my notes only *after* I thought of them - when Damdred had just made his push on Damdred and Hapa had started his push. It's not like I had them in my notes all along (LOL how could that even be possible - the Damdred thing happened way after I posted my notes earlier). With the notes thing I am specifically talking about the yamato thing., you posted notes once that didnt have the yamato question but the 2nd notes you posted did, this was way after the original question rayn asked. Your reads are just too different to mine at the moment Xat. Could you explain your current reads in full? I'll give you my opinion on them. Yeah I didn't notice the yamato point in rayn's filter since it was so huge until Hapa brought it up. I only added it to my notes after Hapa mentioned it. Not really sure what's unclear here. Basically you were wavering on Rayn and finding it hard to read him so missing out the point about yamato which is now a major crux of your scum read just doesn't add up to me. Like if it is now such a big deal how did you miss it before.
It just escaped my attention. I didn't realize at first how weird it is for town rayn to ask others if someone is scummy. He would just say "pretty sure yamato is scum" or something like that.
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On August 24 2014 01:22 KelsierSC wrote:
As for my reads
Town - Dam,GB,Turtle,JAT,VA,WoS,rayn,Hapa
Scum - Yam,Xat
null - Onegu
Obviously one of town reads is wrong but for d1 i like to make a big town circle and eliminate from there.
I'd like explanations as well but I'll go with this and examine the similarities and differences. Apparently a big reason for you to scumread me is that our "reads are different" so this should at last put your argument to rest.
GB/turtlevine - obviously agreed
WOS/Hapa/jat - agreed
Damdred - somewhat agreed but I think there's a chance he could be scum - definitely not for the reasons rayn mentioned though, and not a lynch candidate for now - town?
VA - apparently serious VA = scum VA, I don't really know VA that well but I wouldn't at least townread him so easily - scum?
rayn - pretty hard to townread him when he's constantly brought BS arguments against me, ignored his own strategy to read me (probably because it would just make me look good), softpushed / validated his reads from the thread, pushed a REALLY bad case against Damdred etc. - scum
yamato - useless yamato isn't necessarily scum yamato, and I think he's shown some of his townie characteristics... with that said his continued lurking and making these quick useless posts here and there doesn't look good so I'm not very confident to call him town anymore - nullish
Onegu - I think his entrance to the thread was good, not a fan of his repeated questions about the Masons though - town lean still
Overall if we ignore GB/turtlevine, we agree on 4 out of 8 reads and the only significant difference is rayn/VA. Why do you townread VA btw?
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On August 24 2014 02:01 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2014 23:47 Xatalos wrote:
Yeah that's pretty much the worst / most incorrect possible reason to scumread Damdred. Actually even during the big spamfest he only posted original stuff and didn't sheep anything... That's just an unacceptable reason rayn. Show nested quote +On August 24 2014 00:09 Xatalos wrote:On August 23 2014 23:53 KelsierSC wrote:On August 23 2014 23:10 Xatalos wrote:On August 23 2014 22:54 KelsierSC wrote:On August 23 2014 21:47 Xatalos wrote:On August 23 2014 21:18 KelsierSC wrote:On August 23 2014 20:55 Xatalos wrote:On August 23 2014 20:54 KelsierSC wrote:On August 23 2014 20:27 Xatalos wrote:
So KSC you're scumreading me because 1) I'm townreading yamato 2) pushing rayn? That's really weak... Besides I already explained to you that I didn't notice rayn's softpush on yamato earlier, or maybe I noticed it but forgot it soon after... Dunno how that makes me scum. And the Damdred thing only happened AFTER I nullread rayn so that + the yamato thing Hapa noticed made me vote. It is more than that though and you trying to simplify it to make it look weak is really fucking scummy Well I already completely destroyed your earlier "case" and that's what was left of it on your most recent post about me. Completely destroyed? This never happened at all. You gave some non sensical posts about "forgetting to push" let's be real. With one of your arguments being factually false, one of them being a nulltell rather than scumtell, and the others actually being towntells (for me, not in general), I think it's pretty destroyed. This fallacy that you destroyed my argument is completely ridiculous. 1) The older points that you are scum still exist. You had a terrible first list post I didn't like any of your reads, to me that means you are not reading the game correctly that makes you scum to me and a good lynch. I didn't like your weird Dam interactions and also you had a bunch of null reads with everyone either "maybe town could be scum" like it is just non commital gibberish. 2) The main sticking point is when Hapa came out with his read, you had called rayn maybe town, but then as soon as hapa came out you jumped on it and you sheeped all his reasons. ESPECIALLY the "attack" on yamato which apparently hadn't noticed. 3) You then gave a bunch of shitty reasons why yam is town a lot of them were just factually incorrect about how he is giving his reads and seems up for this game which just isn't true, like yam is really scummy to me and you having the same read as him and reading him town is really scummy. 4) This is just my personal opinion here but you seem to be trying to make a lot of posts to seem town but a lot of them are just nothing. Like "where is robik, this is weird" It gives the impression you are trying to figure things out but it is just a lot of garbage trying to throw suspicon. 5 ll of my reads besides the Masons are now -1, 0, 1 or 2 points This is what bugs me, you are really happy to sheep any read you get but you have none of those people as your town. 1) Actually wrong reads (especially very early, initial reads) come more often from town. As scum you have perfect information so it's easy to make your reads somewhat believable. I always craft my reads carefully as scum to be as believable and focused as possible. So I don't really see your point here even if you're somehow right about everything and I'm wrong about everything (no way). The Damdred vote was just something to start the day with, nothing that serious. Btw my notes were my real-time thoughts as I read the thread and nothing like a case or anything. Hard to be immediately 100% sure early on as you read stuff. 2) False. I never called rayn town or even "maybe town". At best null. What you're exaggerating is when I said that "I could see the town motivation behind making that stunt". That's not even any longer the case since clearly there was none - he immediately abandoned the whole idea since my notes matched with my play and there was nothing to push me with. 3) Just stupid. Experienced scum players NEVER, I repeat NEVER do stuff like hard-defend each other and push stuff together. It's about the same as claiming Masons together. This is what gets newb scumteams killed. 4) Go read Arnie Got a Gun Mafia if you think fluff posts indicate scum Xatalos. 5) +2 towny is already somewhat town. And if the argument is good, it's not like I have to 100% townread the one who presented it. Explain why you townread yamato though your reasons dont make sense why were you so happy to sheep hapas read i dont really need to read other games, it isnt hard to mimic your town play if your town play is to have no reads what so ever. Again, he's absolutely useless and unmotivated as scum. He doesn't show emotion. That's from my experience. I don't like how he's lurking so much and avoiding hot topics of discussion though, plus Hapa made some decent points about how he doesn't have real confidence in his reads and how he leaves the thread at crucial points. So currently he's only +1 and he will drop further if his lurking behavior continues. I've been concerned about rayn all game and I've never thought he's town, something I've ALWAYS concluded at some point during D1 if he's town. However, I didn't want to lynch him based on a gut feeling because 1) he'd be an NK magnet as town 2) he could become a real asset as town at some point. Then he did a really shady push on Damdred where I really doubt he even believed in it himself (all his arguments were just wrong / misinterpreted). I was really wavering on believing he could possibly be town. Just then Hapa came out with an additional point pointing to scum rayn and I decided that I'd rather lynch probable scum rather than flip a coin (on yamato who had barely posted at that point, and actually yamato returned to the thread around then as well while showing some of his towny traits - emotion, constantly posting stuff etc.). So that's why. I'd hardly say I have "no reads whatsoever" when I townread you and scumread rayn. My other reads are still under evaluation. Onegu is probably town too though because he instantly focused on figuring out the game when he started posting earlier. As scum he's pretty... unfocused. Oh god.... can you actually start taking a stance on ANYTHING?
Says the Switzerland  Besides I can't even understand what you mean here.
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On August 24 2014 02:05 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2014 02:02 WaveofShadow wrote:On August 24 2014 02:00 KelsierSC wrote:
Also it isn't just they have the same read but it is the style of the read.
so for example. I like you because you have the same read on yamata but also you offer some insight into why you have the read and it didn't feel like you were sheeping anyone else so it felt towny to me. What do you consider sheeping? Is it something town or scum do? When and why? Sheeping is what I think Yam and Xat did with the Hapa read because they didn't really add anything to the original points and just hopped on a bw. It feels scummy to me. They do it if they want to push a ML.
In fact Hapa only added one argument against rayn and I have several more.
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On August 24 2014 02:25 justanothertownie wrote:
Xatalos, what about Onegus entrance was good?
The fact that he immediately focused on interacting with me and talking about which filters would be important to read etc., then actually went to read rayn and brought additional points for him being scum.
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On August 24 2014 02:29 Damdred wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2014 02:28 Xatalos wrote:On August 24 2014 02:25 justanothertownie wrote:
Xatalos, what about Onegus entrance was good? The fact that he immediately focused on interacting with me and talking about which filters would be important to read etc., then actually went to read rayn and brought additional points for him being scum. Show me what good points Xata, most of what he brought to the thread had been talked about before and as someone who Rayn says can always read him and he self claims he can read rayn he doesn't bring a ton to the thread in the way of a read when rayn has a lot of pages to draw from.
I think it's a pretty good point that as town rayn always says stuff like "I NEVER do this as scum!". Not once this game. Plus the point about rayn believing strongly in everything he says as town, whereas here he just begged others to scumread yamato for him and pushed Damdred with pretty much the most lame case in the whole thread.
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On August 24 2014 02:34 Damdred wrote:
But are those really Oneg points or have they been said before in the thread Xata? What about his case or his presence in the thread was actually helpful towards the case about Rayn?
I believe nobody mentioned those points before him, especially the "I never do this as scum!" one, nothing even close to that.
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On August 24 2014 02:34 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2014 02:32 Xatalos wrote:On August 24 2014 02:29 Damdred wrote:On August 24 2014 02:28 Xatalos wrote:On August 24 2014 02:25 justanothertownie wrote:
Xatalos, what about Onegus entrance was good? The fact that he immediately focused on interacting with me and talking about which filters would be important to read etc., then actually went to read rayn and brought additional points for him being scum. Show me what good points Xata, most of what he brought to the thread had been talked about before and as someone who Rayn says can always read him and he self claims he can read rayn he doesn't bring a ton to the thread in the way of a read when rayn has a lot of pages to draw from. I think it's a pretty good point that as town rayn always says stuff like "I NEVER do this as scum!". Not once this game. Plus the point about rayn believing strongly in everything he says as town, whereas here he just begged others to scumread yamato for him and pushed Damdred with pretty much the most lame case in the whole thread. Please show me where rayn BEGGED others to scumread yamato.
On August 22 2014 23:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why is noone calling yamato mafia?
-> Forgot about it
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On August 24 2014 02:39 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2014 02:38 Xatalos wrote:On August 24 2014 02:34 justanothertownie wrote:On August 24 2014 02:32 Xatalos wrote:On August 24 2014 02:29 Damdred wrote:On August 24 2014 02:28 Xatalos wrote:On August 24 2014 02:25 justanothertownie wrote:
Xatalos, what about Onegus entrance was good? The fact that he immediately focused on interacting with me and talking about which filters would be important to read etc., then actually went to read rayn and brought additional points for him being scum. Show me what good points Xata, most of what he brought to the thread had been talked about before and as someone who Rayn says can always read him and he self claims he can read rayn he doesn't bring a ton to the thread in the way of a read when rayn has a lot of pages to draw from. I think it's a pretty good point that as town rayn always says stuff like "I NEVER do this as scum!". Not once this game. Plus the point about rayn believing strongly in everything he says as town, whereas here he just begged others to scumread yamato for him and pushed Damdred with pretty much the most lame case in the whole thread. Please show me where rayn BEGGED others to scumread yamato. On August 22 2014 23:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why is noone calling yamato mafia? -> Forgot about it In what world is that begging?!
Well, he tried to see if anyone would start pushing yamato with that encouragement, nobody did, he dropped it. I think begging is a somewhat appropriate description since he didn't do anything to push the issue himself and just hoped that someone would do it for him.
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I gotta admit that I dislike Hapa's lurking.
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On August 24 2014 02:42 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2014 02:41 Xatalos wrote:On August 24 2014 02:39 justanothertownie wrote:On August 24 2014 02:38 Xatalos wrote:On August 24 2014 02:34 justanothertownie wrote:On August 24 2014 02:32 Xatalos wrote:On August 24 2014 02:29 Damdred wrote:On August 24 2014 02:28 Xatalos wrote:On August 24 2014 02:25 justanothertownie wrote:
Xatalos, what about Onegus entrance was good? The fact that he immediately focused on interacting with me and talking about which filters would be important to read etc., then actually went to read rayn and brought additional points for him being scum. Show me what good points Xata, most of what he brought to the thread had been talked about before and as someone who Rayn says can always read him and he self claims he can read rayn he doesn't bring a ton to the thread in the way of a read when rayn has a lot of pages to draw from. I think it's a pretty good point that as town rayn always says stuff like "I NEVER do this as scum!". Not once this game. Plus the point about rayn believing strongly in everything he says as town, whereas here he just begged others to scumread yamato for him and pushed Damdred with pretty much the most lame case in the whole thread. Please show me where rayn BEGGED others to scumread yamato. On August 22 2014 23:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why is noone calling yamato mafia? -> Forgot about it In what world is that begging?! Well, he tried to see if anyone would start pushing yamato with that encouragement, nobody did, he dropped it. I think begging is a somewhat appropriate description since he didn't do anything to push the issue himself and just hoped that someone would do it for him. Yeah? I think you are talking right out of your ass.
I think that's a pretty good interpretation of the situation. Not very typical of rayn to validate his reads from anyone randomly present in the thread. Perhaps from someone like marv, not from just others in general.
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On August 24 2014 02:46 turtlevine wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2014 02:39 justanothertownie wrote:On August 24 2014 02:38 turtlevine wrote:On August 24 2014 02:36 justanothertownie wrote:
Turtle are you completely caught up? I've once-overed the entire thread but it's hard to hold in my head the thread was quite long but my reading is strong but much more and I'd probably be dead Good. Any suspects besides Hapa? Despite what I say about hapa's alignment, I've also noticed rayn's decreasing refinement, his yelling is bothersome and GB wants me to read him, since he does it regardless of what he rolls on a whim, but the fact that he made like 200 posts in the first day is still annoying to me...ment. Depute unvoting him, I still suspect Xat, who wants to push [urlhttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/465098-guilty-mini-mafia?page=65#1292]hapa at the drop of a hat it's not that he's wrong it's that the reason's not strong and given that he's defended hapa so much I can't see him posting that. [/url]
You call that pushing....
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EPT
