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On August 28 2014 18:02 meatpudding wrote:
SuperBias
Not sure what to make of you right now. You're tunnelling hard and I think you need to branch out a bit.
You back out on your thesis a bit after being pulled up on some points. The thing is you keep trying to justify it by saying those points are not important. Instead you should be trying to highlight the points that are important, and you've failed to do that. Please update and justify your reads.
Tunneling hard? I've pushed on three people during day 1, what did you do? I'm really fucking upset you weren't there at the end of day as well, but still blame me for this bullshit. I pulled back on my thesis because the only people who seemed to agree at a few points were you and Barakos, and other people were starting to read me scum for some of my points. I specifically asked for Barakos' and your opinion so we could have more discussion surrounding the thesis. I did highlight the points that were important. Read again.
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I'm currently living in a world where at least 1 of the 2 mafia was not active last night. It was way too fucking easy for mafia to hide because only half of the entire player group was around. I'm afraid that we may have had no real pressure on any mafia at the end of the day. Lilwade and Breshke both switch their votes from dook to MihZaaa as the end of day draws near. This means that it was very easy for the vote to swing Breshke's way (only needing 1 from dook +1). I don't think you take that risk as mafia.
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On August 28 2014 19:55 abuse wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2014 19:37 Superbia wrote:On August 28 2014 17:15 abuse wrote:Superbia, please get your head out of your butt. there is so much information thrown at you during the end of day1, that it is prepostorous that you stuck with voting for gobbely. You are either scum, our a town that really has to start picking up the right pieces together, instead of all the pieces the puzzle has to offer. On August 28 2014 09:20 Superbia wrote:
Honestly does anyone else feel like this may just be a play from dook, or is it just me? Are you kidding me? The reason why someone gets mad and angry when being legitely threatened, is not what mafia would do. Mafia would not do this - because as you mentioned yourself, it is self-destruct play. It was pretty obvious at the end that he would flip town. I agree that he was very scummy earlier on in the day phase(the ONLY kind of townie thing he said, was that he would flip Aurora, the Sleeping Beauty, which matches the formatting of the town roles, and I was kind of hoping that someone would call him out for this, claiming to be sleeping beauty themselves) but at this point it should have been obvious that he would flip town. Mafia does not make get angry like this. Are you fucking kidding me? He gave no defense and had acted scummy during the day. Isn't this really fucking easy to say? Where the fuck were you during the formal? Last I checked your vote was on dook as well, and me changing mine wouldn't have stopped the lynch. I really think we should stop with the swearing - sorry about that. Giving a defense or not did not really matter in that case, and his case when I voted for him, and his case at the end of the day was different. I already explained, that your reasoning in assuming that "it is a play" did not make sense. Mafia wouldn't selfdestruct like this - quite the opposite, mafia would make sure to post a valid defense attempt. What is "the formal" ? And again - I explained many times why my vote on dook was different than yours in this case. I Honestly think, that your vote changing could have helped a lot. Don't get me wrong - I am not blaming only you for how this played out. I just do not like how you had the most contact with Jenny, and you didn't see what she was so desperately trying to pass on. I am sad for this. Overall I do see you a little more towny now, I just wish you would pay more attention to the posts that matter and try to change your perspective on things a little.
I do understand what she was trying to pass on. I understand the whole "mafia doesn't do this" thing. But the thing is, I've seen so many games now where people use the "mafia doesn't do this" to abstain or whatever. And guess what? Mafia does do that. Mafia can do anything they want. I felt like dook was bluffing hard, he never gave his reads, he never gave a defense. So I voted on him. You can't let shit like that happen as town.
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On August 28 2014 20:22 Barakos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2014 19:47 Superbia wrote:
I'm currently living in a world where at least 1 of the 2 mafia was not active last night. It was way too fucking easy for mafia to hide because only half of the entire player group was around. I'm afraid that we may have had no real pressure on any mafia at the end of the day. Lilwade and Breshke both switch their votes from dook to MihZaaa as the end of day draws near. This means that it was very easy for the vote to swing Breshke's way (only needing 1 from dook +1). I don't think you take that risk as mafia. I actually feel Breshkes swing has got some bad taste in it. First of all there is this quote: Show nested quote +On August 28 2014 08:36 Breshke wrote:
I agree i was looking on him with a towny light but he seemed to just flip out. I'm not going to lynch someone just because they get Bm so "oh he must be town" that sets a bad standard. If people don't understand your reads its your job to try and explain them.
Yet he still votes on gobble, not for being mafia but for being anti-town, after gobble started insulting people. Then he only went for MihZaaa after wades swing and when he could be quite sure, that he would not get lynched, since it would have taken 2 extra-votes on him and there were not enough people active in the thread to accomplish this, since many of us - myself included - were not present at the end of the day. Gobbles vote already was on him by the time he switched, so it would have taken 2 out of Meatpudding, abuse, superbia, lilwade an me. Lilwade switched back to his prime suspect just a few posts before, so he could be quite sure, he wouldn't get lilwades vote and meatpudding, abuse and I were not present anymore by the time he switched. I don't think this switch was a risk at all. On lilwades swing I feel unsure, since he had MihZaaa as his first vote, then switched to gobbledydook after his outburst and then switched back to MihZaaa, once his outburst was over and the tempers have cooled down. I don't like the back and forth, but it is in line with his previous posts and I can't blame him for swinging to gobble for a short period of time. He also gave an explanation for swinging: Show nested quote +On August 28 2014 09:19 lilwade wrote:
I will make this clear I See MihZaaa as my scum, but I do not like people who are detrimental to town. I think gobbledydook needs to put on his big boy pants and play the game. Still: I don't like the switching back and forth but I can understand both switches. I still would have felt better, if he had stuck with MihZaaa.
I don't want to defend Breshke's defense/reads, because he has been sheeping most (all?) of them. I feel like he's very likely mafia (especially at this point). However, you make that swing with so many people who could be lurking and could start voting at any point, you take a risk. I think there were people lurking last night. Like I said before, I think mafia is among them (at least 1). Breshke might've been taking the chance because there was a mafia partner ready to vote on dook (in which case the mafia was probably not already on the voting for dook list). Alternatively, he might've been taking just a bigger, more calculated risk, as you suggested. I think that's a fair statement to make, one that I have considered as well, and there's no way Breshke will not be a wagon today.
Switching back and forth to put some pressure is fine, but I have no idea why he switched back after the lack of defense (in my opinion).
I'm going to finish my lunch and then reevaluate everyone, especially the people absent last night.
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Penultimate sentence was on lilwade.
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Daydreamarine - lurker / inactive during EoD
I don't even know. You've given nothing so far, I don't like lynching lurkers, but be active, pretty please?
MihZaaa - voted on dook / inactive during EoD
Early on in the day gives a weird read on lilwade about him testing the waters with some questions. Didn't like the read.
Felt the need to defend himself against my sexist joke, not sure if this is miscommunication or being too defensive.
Replaces Jenny with Barakos for top town, that's fine. This was after a few people had already added Barakos as top town, though he gave him some meta-cred before (logging in from work).
Calls out marine and lilwade for more interaction (specifically the latter, for only asking questions). Neglects dook, who hasn't participated yet at this point. Dook was town, so I don't know how to feel about this.
Actually reads my megaposts and responds.
Asks abuse why he specifically would've liked a town power role rather than a blank power role. I can see why this question is asked.
Getting a bit more general here, since this is otherwise going to become another megapost:
Aligns himself with my towncircle (specifically easy townreads) early on the game. Specifically aligns himself with Barakos, Jenny, me. This may be mafia going stealth mode, which would also explain his absence during EoD.
Pushes on dook for good reasons. But doesn't do anything else from there for the entirety of the day.
Don't like his push on dook into inactivity, especially paired with his aligning with the most town people (imo) at the start of the day. Wouldn't mind seeing a push on him today.
Breshke - voted on dook / active during EoD
Breshke sheeped most his reads. I can't find anything original.
He calls abuse town early on and specifically says "Contrary to what some other people think I believe the questions he asked were great.". I don't think anyone disliked abuse's questions.
Points out that Jenny had not "taken a stance on anyone in particular yet", which is only partially true. Jenny had given reads on MeatPole, Barakos, and myself before then, and had explained her iffy stance on MihZaaa.
Specifically asks Meatpudding why he claimed VT rather than general town, which many people did (OC). Suggests to me that he's not reading thoroughly.
Agrees with MeatPrattle on a lot of things, but doesn't read him town for unknown reasons. Would like more input from you here, Breshke, why didn't you put MeatPoster on your town list (#218)? Later includes him in his towncircle anyway, no reason given.
Flip-flops between lynches like a frog. Specifically goes after a new vote on MihZaaa when it becomes slowly clear that dook is getting lynched. Again, I read this as a fairly big risk for mafia, as there were be a number of unknown variables during the EoD, even for mafia (unless both mafia were lurking, which is not a world we should exclude). Though this may also be to make him look good at the end of day, his vote wasn't on dook in the end, who turned out to be town.
He didn't seem to read dook as mafia during early EoD, but still voted on him (only switched near the very end). Later made him his #1 scum. Then flip-flopped and switched fhis vote to MihZaaa anyway (his #2). Might be confused town or inexperienced mafia.
Was on dook's "kill list" (but so was I).
Definitely should be a push today.
MeatPrattler - dead vote / inactive during EoD
Defends abuse early on (backs off a little after he stops posting), so I doubt they are both mafia (although they could be, as mafia can do whatever they want). His defense was good, and he backs it up with a push on me. Unfortunately, this turns out to be a dead vote due to his inactivity.
Reads and interacts with my posts. Though fails on the follow up questions from me (specifically, he doesn't interact on my "abuse merely skimmed over my post" point).
Reads me as wicked because we are reading the opposite, as far as I see it, we only read the opposite on abuse. Calls out dook for his vote on abuse, even though I liked that (only thing I liked about dook), but it makes sense in regards to him aligning with abuse.
He has also put some doubt on Jenny for decent reasons at this point. And then he's done.
I don't know how I feel about MeatProduct. He was strong during a certain part of the day. And that's it, he did nothing else. I'm iffy about MeatPole, but I think there are better lynches for now.
Will get back to the rest, going to the gym now.
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lilwade - voted on dook / active during EoD
Relatively inactive during day 1, but from what I gathered from Jenny, this is his normal play. Hoping to see a little more from him in day 2.
I like his doubts on Barakos, especially since Barakos came off as very townie at the start of the game, but was absent during the EoD. Though Barakos returns strong after wade expresses his doubts.
Push on MihZaaa was nice, and something I missed. MihZaaa had abuse as his most scummy, but later retreated by saying it was instead his "least townie".
Seems to tunnel quite a bit on MihZaaa. I don't like "A person that does not have their own opinion is more detrimental to town than anything else." because it might imply that you don't really think he's mafia, but that might just be me.
Backs up his push on MihZaaa with a vote in the end, before switching to dook and then back again. Don't think this is mafia ensuring his vote isn't on confirmed town at EoD, since he was pushing on MihZaaa all day, and voted on him before the dook affair. His vote didn't end up on dook, but still voted on him before that.
I think lilwade is town for today, though I would like to hear some more in-depth material on people other than MihZaaa (though don't exclude MihZaaa).
JennyHell - never voted on dook / active during EoD
Jenny, you were iffy for me before the EoD, now you are my waifu. I thought you were trying to pocket me with the push and switch on me, but now I think it was all genuine (and this game is probably more straightforward than I had thought).
You were decently town at the start of the day (in my opinion).
I didn't completely like the timing of your push on me, I think you could've waited a little longer (though to be honest, I don't think I was going to get much more from my pushes). I didn't really like your full-flip on me, but it was probably genuine.
You were the best at the EoD, the most crucial point of day 1. If I had listened to you, the game probably would've been easier by now. But alas.
We're never lynching you today, unless you scumslip hard.
abuse - voted on dook / inactive during EoD
Many people are reading abuse as town. I still don't know how I feel. I had my initial reads on him, but judging from his recent posts (post-EoD), he's staying proactive.
His lurker story is getting older and older the more I filter dive him. It seemed to take up a lot of room in his earlier posts.
I've said a lot on his earlier posts in my thesis (#179). His response was rather thorough and decentish.
Likes MihZaaa's on the following: "Was hoping to get a power roll of some sort because sometimes defending yourself as vanilla town can be very frustrating when you don't convince people that have gotten fixated on you." which I definitely do not agree with and do not like.
Liked Breshke's reads. I think he's the only one who liked Breshke's reads?
I don't like him saying "I am willing to give him a chance to prove me wrong." on me. This feels like he wanted me to stop pushing on him in order to prove him wrong? It would've made my read a lot easier if he didn't have a heavier read on dook, followed by his vote on dook, since he didn't vote on me. Later also says "You do not have a case on me. You think you do, but you don't, Out of everything you said about me, there is nothing that actually IS scummy. I have, at this point, posted much more townie content than pretty much anyone here, and you fail to see it or admit it, then there is really only one explanation for this in my mind.", ugh. I don't know if he's mafia, since he's very proactive otherwise, but I don't like this kind of behavior.
Buddy buddy with MeatPaper, one of them might be pocketing the other. Doubt they're both mafia.
Also, called me suburbia... really man? 
Completely stopped after his vote on dook and counterpush and me.
I think we should look into abuse when more information is available. I think there's a chance he's mafia, but for now I'm willing to give him a pass since he's keeping up his proactiveness.
Barakos - voted on dook / semi-active during EoD
Lots of substantial posts. Active and useful.
Read and interacted with my posts in a very townie way.
Says he "might have been blinded by his trollish undertone and therefore missed several slips and flaws." (with regards to my megaposts) but never revisits this. May have had better targets on day 1 (votes on dook in his next post, 5 hours later), but I would like to see a follow up.
Absent for the last 1 1/2 hours of the EoD without notice.
Never lynching you today, unless you scumslip hard. I dread the world in which you're mafia.
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On August 28 2014 23:31 JennyHell wrote:
I am not going to do much during the nightphase. Mafia doesn't need more reasons to shoot me and I will instead spend most of the nightphase sorting out my reads privately, doing some votecounting and what not.
All I want to say is that the only one that is confirmed town is the guy that died. Noone else is confirmed.
To me, it's me and a dead guy. To you it should be you and a dead guy.
Yes, people have been doing towny things but that should not make them confirmed, me included.
I went hard on defense of Gobble because I have experience of similar behaviour in people playing videomafia. There was no logical reason for him to flip as mafia in that particular moment unless so and so had happened.
That along with the fact that everyone was willing to vote him off because of BM just felt like everyone dropped their initial thought of scumhunting and instead went for someone, like I pointed out they said, they feel is town but vote on anyways.
We all need to go back, filter through all the bogus of day1 and try to sort our reads out.
We have new information that gobble is confirmed town. Who did he align himself with, who went hard against him, who did he read as scum and why. All these things are something we need to take into consideration, and then we also need to look at the voting patterns. Who voted and when, who decided to go at him after he used profanity etc.
Do some leg work people, I know I will.
I'm fine with this. But can you out your reads at EoN?
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Few notes on time-related stuffs:
MihZaaa was active until 1 AM CEST (2 hours before deadline) on the first part of day 1. No evening/night activity on day 2.
MeatPencil was active around 3 AM CEST (deadline): start of day 1, start of second half of day 1. No activity around EoD.
abuse has never been active around deadline times.
Barakos was active until 1:30 AM CEST (1 1/2 hour before deadline) during the EoD.
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On August 29 2014 03:07 Amiko wrote:ON DEADLINES
If I receive enough PMs to suggest the deadline would change, I will re-circulate.
If I do receive enough PMs, there will be no change.
Nice scumslip. 
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Just to be clear Barakos, I really want to like abuse, he's proactive, he's been doing some things that could be townie, but I just don't feel it. I actually filterdived him with the hope of adding him to my towncircle, but I'm still not convinced. He's currently null with the distinct possibility of being scum for me.
Him liking Breshke's read was not really a point against abuse, but more an observation in general. I think if Breshke flips mafia it becomes relevant.
I'm not planning on tunneling or pushing on him on day 2.
Can you give some input on how you feel about MihZaaa? Do you think he might be mafia? If so, who do you think his partner is? Do you think Breshke is a decent lynch?
Is there maybe a world where Marine is mafia, and his partner had to work alone so far?
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Just wanted your final position on MihZaaa.
Do you feel that Breshke's push on MihZaaa on day 1 EoD excludes a Breshke/MihZaaa duo? Or do you still believe that Breshke (and by extension, MihZaaa) was completely safe in Breshke's eyes?
I personally think that Breshke and MihZaaa are probably not a duo. I think if Breshke flips town it's definitely MihZaaa at this point in time.
Which of the two would you rather kill?
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Also, wasn't asking for a read on marine, but there might be a (slight) possibility that mafia was essentially solo day 1.
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Alright, I've given my reads.
My circles for unambiguity:
Town:
JennyHell
Barakos
Leaning Town:
lilwade
Leaning Scum:
abuse
MeatPackage
daydreamarine
Scum:
Breshke
MihZaaa
Scum-heavy list, mostly due to the chaotic EoD. Reasons can be found in my reads. Let me know if there are any further questions. At this point I really want to hear from Breshke and MihZaaa.
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Jenny can you give your final circles?
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Actually, you don't have to give it now, maybe 2m before EoN.
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Good night both probably farewell to one of you.
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There's no vote today, Marine, it's night.
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Honestly if there's a lynch outside of Jenny, Barakos (or myself), I'm going to have to re-evaluate you two hard.
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Easiest fucking deflect of my life. Donkey mafia, how does it feel to be remote controlled?
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EPT
