EPT[W] Newbie LVIII - Disney Princess Mafia - Page 2
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Superbia
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On August 27 2014 13:46 meatpudding wrote: 2. I don't follow how this statement could allow abuse to cover up his scummy play. Are you trying to say that if he pushes for a lynch and they flip town, he will say 'I was just being vocal' as a cover? I don't like it when people preface with what their playstyle is (especially for pushing), why would you do that? It feels to me like already making foundations for your defense (why would you do that?). On August 27 2014 13:46 meatpudding wrote:3. Somehow I suspect the hard push is coming. Also, how does giving misinformation about your MBK list help town in any way? You've mentioned your private points list a couple of times but I'm not convinced it's going to help us. Don't get me wrong, my town/mafia circle is what it is. I'm not going to lie about that so easily. However, I have obscured a bit of information about how I grade posts (i.e. tells) because I don't want people to figure out how I read them. On August 27 2014 13:46 meatpudding wrote:4. Good point, it may have been too early to reveal his reasoning here. As for the why, both me and Barakos called him out for asking us to provide information, when he wasn't giving us anything to read from. So I think he was forced to back up a bit. And if you check page 7, he does answer all the questions (I note this in my case on you). So yeah, I missed on abuse's response to his own questions (missed the part where he responded that he was VT and wanted town PR) because it was split up in two posts. To be honest, that was one of the weakest points in my thesis. Not a game breaker (in my opinion). On August 27 2014 13:46 meatpudding wrote:5. Maybe you're right. But is it indicative of abuse's alignment? It could be scummy to hunt for roles, so maybe. But def a weak weak read. As for abuse's reply that often people don't answer before they ask, I think this is a scum trait because, as I said above, it doesn't give town any way to read the person asking the questions. So this could lead to abuse being scummy but not for the reason you've stated. This is something abuse needs to clear up asap. You're right, this is a weak read. I'm not going to have a huge list of strong reads this early into the game on one person. Alas, I'm not that good (yet!). On August 27 2014 13:46 meatpudding wrote:6. The thread has started slow, so not everyone has given reads. Some people have not even posted. By now, however, I think it's a good time to give some reads. Note that Jenny for example hasn't given any reads either and you don't push a case on her. This skips over some of the meat of my argument, i.e. he blatantly skimmed over my post. However, you bring up a good point (one that I will reiterate later in a general post): where is Jenny? I towncircled her because she was very active and vocal, and I believed it would be easy to get reads on her early on. Time to kick her into the circle of neutrality? On August 27 2014 13:46 meatpudding wrote:7. Relates back to 2. I don't see how. On August 27 2014 13:46 meatpudding wrote:8. You seem to have missed most of what abuse said on page 7 (see point 4) so I think he has a good point that you are rushing. Eh, maybe that's fair. I don't think it's a good case to dismiss my arguments, however. On August 27 2014 13:46 meatpudding wrote:Finally, 9. I'm inclined to agree mainly with abuse here. You and I seem to be reading the opposite and it makes you look wicked to me. Unless I missed something, you read Jenny and Barakos as similar alignment to me. Not really that opposite? Also town can disagree. I like this shit, MeatProp, it doesn't feel like a mafia trying to pocket abuse, nor does it feel like mafia defending mafia (I sincerely doubt that would happen D1 so quickly after my thesis). I think I'll add you to my town circle for now (maybe replacing Jenny, let's first read what she has done today). | ||
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Don't think his read on meatpudding. I don't think there is any world in which mafia defends mafia that fast. Though I might be getting meta'd here. | ||
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On August 27 2014 13:35 gobbledydook wrote: meatpudding is abuse's scumbuddy ... This just feels made up. Notice how it flows: 'Hmmm your first post was shit, so can I dig something out that can make you look good? here's your longest post, I'll just say it's good without explaining why it's good' It looks like an attempt to give abuse towncred, a ploy that I ain't buying. EBWOP fixed quotes I kind of like your first train on thought. However, there hadn't been that many analyses yet at this point in the game (this was the second one besides my big post) so I don't think you can fault him that much? It'll be interesting to see how meat aligns with abuse during the rest of the day/game, however. | ||
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On August 27 2014 13:59 meatpudding wrote: I'm happen to agree with what he was saying at that point. That is, Jenny is neutral (not enough positive action to put her in the town circle) and Barakos and MihZaaa are leaning town. Is there anything specific you would like me to elaborate on? What is it about the abuse quote I posted that you disagree with? Also, what is your reads on Jenny and Barakos? You haven't put out a town read on anybody yet, you need to more than just point fingers. For now I'm going to say that I don't read you as scum yet, but if you are town you need to help a lot more. I like this and second it: I What is your towncircle, dook? | ||
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On August 27 2014 14:10 Barakos wrote: Good morning everyone. Just woke up, so here some thoughts on the abuse-case before i head to work: 1st quote and your reaction: I feel like you are overreacting at this point. You were called out instantly by 2 people on your math not adding up and gave the explanation to this without hesitation. abuse himself said, that lying without explanation would lead to him pushing people... you explained why you "lied" (i wouldn't even agreeing on it being a lie), so I would not have awaited a reaction from him, since pushing this point would have made him look more mafia than town. I'm calling him out on it because according to his "how I play town", he would push on it. What's wrong with me pushing him here? On August 27 2014 14:10 Barakos wrote:2nd quote and your reaction: Here you slip hard. abuse has answered all of his questions http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/464494-newbie-lviii-disney-princess-mafia?page=7#129 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/464494-newbie-lviii-disney-princess-mafia?page=7#131 I don't think you know what slip means... slip (or scumslip) means that mafia does something incredibly stupid that instantly reveals their alignment, i.e. posting the nightkill before it happened. But I've explained this, I simply missed his VT claim because it was split off from his opinion about policies. On August 27 2014 14:10 Barakos wrote:5th quote: While I see the valid points in your post, I feel very uncomfortable voting on him yet, since he is one of the top contributors to the thread and your vote feels rushed to me, too. That's fine, if we can find a better lynch target (quick scan of the thread says we probably can, since it seemed like my thesis stirred him into action!). | ||
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On August 27 2014 17:20 abuse wrote: Superbia First off- I am not a fan of super long posts. They are confusing and have way too much information to handle in one read at least for me. It would have been much better if you had split your post at least with a single post per person you are analyzing. This is also why this post it will be a pain for everyone, because I need to quote you..(and it will be a disaster, but please bare(sp?) with me) This is 100% speculation. You are being very cutthroat on something I have not even done, but you just assume that I will. Why would you base your arguments on this? It is speculation. But at this point in the game I'm going through posts (specifically yours, because it was obvious to me that you skimmed my post, which greatly raises my suspicions) and seeing what kind of alignment would make these posts. This seems town-indicative, but it absolutely doesn't have to be. As such, I can see mafia making this play. It's not the best way to start off my thesis, but chronological order is a bitch. On August 26 2014 16:19 abuse wrote:I also want to note that I am usually quite vocal in my games and like to push people who I find suspicious. (Push hard if the regular pushes have no effect on getting a reaction from the person in question.) On August 27 2014 01:37 Superbia wrote: As I've said before, this can definitely be seen as a preface for scummy play. Why would you tell us what your playstyle is? How useful is this for town? It sounds like something you can fall back on when you've made a bad (i.e. scummy) play. I can tell you what my playstyle is because I want to. Or because I am a newbie. People are not so stupid to allow anyone to fall back on something like this, if you make a scummy play. If you make a scummy play, you have made a scummy play. That should be enough to push a person. I don't know what you read, but as far as I see this statement, it seems that I will push people who do not play like a townie should. Why would you assume(later) that I be scum based on this? This is not logical at all. [/QUOTE] To me, it seems like a needless thing to do. As I've said before, my main point is that this can be abused by mafia to push a miss-lynch and then refer to this as an excuse. You say you want to tell us your playstyle, fine. I don't read it as townie and I never like it (for the reasons I stated). Hence why I use it as an argument. What was your goal posting this? On August 26 2014 16:19 abuse wrote: Did you even read this part yourself before you commented it? If I catch you it means that I will push. That is what I said. I did not mention at any point that I want to enduce(?) a lynch all liars or lynch all lurkers in this thread. If you lied then you made a scummy play. Others have noticed. The push will come. That's fine, I think this response is townie, good for you.  On August 26 2014 16:19 abuse wrote: Does it make sense as scum? (hint: no) Sick burn.  On August 26 2014 16:19 abuse wrote:Does it make sense as a newbie, playing his first newbie game in TL? ( :OOOO ) This is weak, you lose some of your earned townie points for pulling this "I'm a newbie" garbage excuse. On August 26 2014 16:19 abuse wrote:Also - I revealed this to let other people use this information to a good standard later themselves, and not discuss useless topics like why would i ask a general question. Use the information later... I'm not sure I feel like the same way as you do about the quality of the information gained. On August 26 2014 16:19 abuse wrote:Also, as mentioned before by others, I have answered all of the questions myself, instantly when prompted. If you pride yourself on reading my posts, and blaming me for not reading yours, you should have known this. This also proves my point that you are rushing, and throwing out accusations all over the place. Also seems like you are making these super large posts on purpose, because nobody would actually quote your bs, to prove you wrong (especially in a newbie game where people might not know TL's formatting well, it also takes up a lot of time and effort.) Tu quoque. I saw you respond with your opinion on the policies, I then reread all your posts specifically looking for an answer to the first question (role + what role you wanted) but for some reason your answer didn't register to me. So I looked over it, fuck me, right? And since I'm a disgusting hypocrite, my points are moot. Multiple people have read my megapost and have asked questions accordingly based on what was unclear, etc. That is townie behaviour. Calling me out on big posts is not. On August 26 2014 16:19 abuse wrote: If you liked it then why are you pushing me about this? I have gotten what I have already mentioned before - basic picture of what a player is like, along with actual mafia-related stuff started being talked about, not useless chatter about other games and whatnot. I'm not asking in the abstract sense. I'm asking you to provide to take the information you have gotten from these questions, put them in the textbox below the thread, and click post. On August 26 2014 16:19 abuse wrote: It is slightly alignment indicative, but it indicates more who plays how. Who notices stuff what they are supposed to notice. Stuff like this needs to be called out, but there is a large difference in HOW you get called out on it. Scum and town would do it in different ways. One way- how town would do it, is ask about it and after they get an answer they would understand. The other way - how scum would do it - is latch on to this detail for all eternity and push that this is what scum would do. hence what you are doing now. This is a fair answer, I wouldn't expect scum to respond like that and sign their own grave that easily, but to each their own, and the more angles the better, I suppose? On August 26 2014 16:19 abuse wrote: I didn't say you gave no reads. I said that you are saying that I ask for reads and not give any in return. Please read posts more carefully before you flag someone. There might be plenty of information to make reads from now, but not when I made that post, as discussions were only beginning. What? Can someone else look at this? I feel like this is miscommunication. I don't think I ever accused you of asking for reads and not giving any in return (specifically this, I am accusing you of generally giving no reads). On August 26 2014 16:19 abuse wrote: I dont understand your argument. Why is something like that "blatantly obvious" here? It was very, very obviously a joke. On August 26 2014 16:19 abuse wrote: You rush too much by not actually giving any good reads. Your arguments are flawed and are often based on stuff that you think will happen in the future, but have not actually happened yet , not to mention most of it was "alright" and jokes. There was nothing really substantial yet, I wanted to get shit moving. That's what my megapost was for. My arguments are based on the thoughts behind posts. Does this help town in any way? Or is it simply an excuse for bad/scummy play? If you're not helping town, but still posting shit that's somewhat relevant, what the fuck are you doing? On August 26 2014 16:19 abuse wrote:You misread what people are saying and you do not even read most of what they are saying, and are trying to cause chaos that way. Your extremely large posts do not help either. It might seem like something that scum wouldn't do, because hey, scum wouldn't put that much effort because they want to stay under the radar, right? Scum can. You did. I've misread you. Once. I didn't associate your VT claim and "I want to be a PR!" with the question you yourself posed. Fuck me right? On August 26 2014 16:19 abuse wrote:I do not have a problem with the fact that you are giving a shitload of data, it is what I wanted to achieve with my first questions after all. My problem is with the data you give. Your data is like a biased TV news network. You put everything in your light, and try to make wagons, by making people think like you want them to think, presenting all of the information in your biased perspective, not just poking at weak parts of others plays, letting others notice it and make their own judgement on the matter. This is scummy in my book. I am putting everything in my light because I am outing my own opinion on everything. Amazing how that works. I'm trying to get people to think like me? I'm trying to get people to interact with me and I'm presenting my reads. On August 26 2014 16:19 abuse wrote: How the fuck do you manage to find it bad and scummy, both when I say that there are no real reads available, AND when I post my thoughts on people? Substantiate your vibes. You need to back up your fucking circles man. On August 26 2014 16:19 abuse wrote:You also seem to find it bad and scummy, that by your mind, I do not give thoughts on others (though I do). Why do you find EVERYTHING I DO scummy? Why do you want everyone to think that? This feels like an appeal to emotion. I don't feel like everything you do is scummy, I just feel like there's barely any town content, which gives me reason enough to push on you. | ||
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I don't know how I feel about gobbledydook, I find myself agreeing with him with what little he has said on abuse. His flip on me just now feels a little too scummy for scum? If that makes sense. Would like to hear more from him. On August 27 2014 19:26 Breshke wrote: Meatpudding May I ask though why in reply to abuses questions did you feel the need to specifically claim VT and not just town. Im not looking that much into this I'm just intrigued. Eh, weird question. I specifically claimed VT as well (as did others), why are you pushing on MeatProp? On August 27 2014 19:26 Breshke wrote:Superbia I dislike your push on abuse. You asked him how explaining his playstyle is helpful to town saying that this was just something he could fall back on for scummy play when you yourself were talking about “private reads”. Couldn't mentioning these be seen in the same way as a scapegoat to fall back on after a scummy play? Also was your vote for me just to try and make me talk? If not what changed between your vote on me and your vote on abuse? Good point, but when I push on someone for the lynch, I'm going to out all my reads. Besides, as I've said before, my mafia and town circle is definitely definite (i.e. not private). When I make a scummy play and refer to private reads, feel free to push on me. Happy you're giving some reads, Breshke, not sure what to think of them yet, though. | ||
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On August 27 2014 23:55 abuse wrote: "You need to back up your fucking circles man" "I just feel like there's barely any town content." I honestly do not know what game you are playing, and what posts you are reading. I backed up every single of my town reads with seperate posts. You backed them up later. But saying something like "I get a townie vibe from" and then "there are no real reads" makes me wonder where you got your vibes from, is that so wrong? On August 27 2014 23:55 abuse wrote:Also i find it funny, that you are allowed to "get things going" with your huge post, yet when I do it with my questions before you, you fail to see this as the same thing, while many others have acknowledged this. Your questions were not mafia-indicative, I have pointed this out. I am happy to have the questions out there (as I've pointed out before, with the whole anything is better than nothing thing), but I don't think it's too town indicative for you to escape my gaze. On August 27 2014 23:55 abuse wrote:I honestly have nothing more to say. This post of yours(though still mega) seems a little more grown up, but you still tend to fixate on a part of what is said. You do not have a case on me. You think you do, but you don't, Out of everything you said about me, there is nothing that actually IS scummy. I have, at this point, posted much more townie content than pretty much anyone here, and you fail to see it or admit it, then there is really only one explanation for this in my mind. That's fine, you've said your part and you've given your reads. I'm going to keep my vote on you for now to see where things will go. On August 27 2014 23:55 abuse wrote:P.S. And the fact that you think that being a newbie is a garbage excuse, you should stop playing in newbie games if you think that is true, and you should be ready to hit it with the big guys. Everyone here is a newbie. I'm just not going to accept any meta-excuses. | ||
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On August 27 2014 23:35 Daydreamarine wrote: wakes up from a long sleep after drinking some grog in a tavern Hi all, just wanted to introduce myself. It is my first Mafia game and I expected a lot more role playing and interactiveness but maybe I am just used to role playing communities as opposed to RTS communities (although I love both) or the game has not properly began. Nonetheless I think it will be a very entertaining experience. I am not a fan of using a point system to analyze behaviour and find this a bit suspicious. All the players who introduced themselves like "Lets ban all the wickedness seem a bit mafia too me since this would be a good distraction from their own role". I am just making these points without mentioning names since it is my first post here and I want to give everybody a fair chance before I call my shots". Welcome, welcome. Please, join in. | ||
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On August 28 2014 04:57 JennyHell wrote: Kill Superbia - You're the one I read the most scummy. I don't get you, man... You're taking things way out of context to where it doesn't feel like it's close to the truth anymore and I dno what to do about you.. Can we just kill you? I feel like you cause more harm than good with the confusion and mess you create. Please, do prove me wrong. I'd love to change my read on you. ##Vote: Superbia Willing to change to other wagons should it be better for town. So I guess it's time for some defense? I have now heard the term "take it way out of context" more than once. I'm sorry, but if you disagree with how I read people, that's fine, just say that. However, both MeatPertubator and Barakos seemed to agree with my (in my opinion) most important reads on abuse. You don't know what to think of me so you want to kill me? I feel like this is a bad reason. I push on someone hard to get interactions going and information flowing. Really, before I started interacting (and I'll admit, it was a bit more chaotic than I wanted, especially my megapost) nothing was really going on. I don't want to waste precious time, especially when we're dealing with multiple timezones. Day 1 is the hardest to read. So I felt a bit iffy on Breshke and abuse, so I wanted to push on them a little. I felt abuse's reply was a bit too defensive, and most importantly, it revealed (to me) that he had skimmed my post. Most importantly, he seemed to have poorly registered my towncircle; he said he had the complete opposite towncircle, while our towncircles actually seemed very similar. This was my main argumentation. I admit that the rest of the arguments were maybe a bit far fetched (it was still a bit scummy in my eyes), but I wanted to push him as hard as I could, to see what I could get out of him. Both gobbledydook and abuse pushed quite a bit of scum on me, so I'm not surprised to see a vote appear. I'm surprised the former didn't start a vote, and that seems a little scummy to me? Especially after he flipped so hard. I'd like MeatProbability's and Barakos' opinion on me and the whole "taking shit out of context" conundrum. They are my top town at the moment. I'd prefer not to get lynched today. I'll take questions from here. | ||
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On August 28 2014 05:20 JennyHell wrote: Superbia, another thing. What's your current thoughts about abuse? Your vote is on him, do you still feel he's the most likely to be mafia? I'm not sure about him. Many people are reading him town, including MeatPoppy. I'd like to lynch him at some point, but maybe not today? I'll see where my vote goes as the dark approaches. | ||
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On August 28 2014 05:14 JennyHell wrote: Superbia, how invested do you feel in this game? Do you feel like you're being misread and if so, what would you be able to do differently to make people see you less scummy? Do you think mafia will try to stay under the radar or go out of their way and be one of the more noticable people? I'm pretty invested in the game. I've put a lot of time and energy into it. It is my second mafia game ever, and my first forum mafia game, so I'm pretty excited about it all (this might seem like a hypocritical answer, but how invested I am in the game is a meta-question anyway, so expect a meta-answer). Eh, to be honest, I care more about killing scum, if I seem a bit scummy in the process, then so be it. However, I don't want town to misslynch, so I'll try to keep it less chaotic, i.e. shorter posts, less jokes (alas  ). Since the game is progressing, it's probably less necessary to bait out information, so hopefully my reads will be easier to relate to.Mafia will probably always try to stay under the radar until they are getting to the finishing point. One might pop up during day 2 to try and integrate into the town circle (if he/she's not there already). Probably the one who didn't vote on a miss lynch (if we get one today). I really really hope we get a lynch today, because it would the game so much easier. | ||
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On August 28 2014 05:32 JennyHell wrote: So if not him, who would you rather see us lynching today? Probably dook or Breshke. I liked dook's initial read on abuse (because it was similar to mine), but his flip on me and his excuses ("this is how I play") seemed off. I'd probably go for dook, though it might seem like an easy target in my position, my Breshke read is not that substantial and he's been very lurky. I don't like to kill lurkers for obvious reasons. At this point I just want more information. I wish more people interacted with my push. I only got a definite townread (for now) off it. | ||
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##Unvote | ||
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On August 28 2014 06:55 gobbledydook wrote: I think you will find your scumhunting approach incorrect. Usually the assholes get lynched and flip town. It's because mafia have nothing to gain by insulting everyone. The mafia's greatest hope is that everyone forgets about them. Care to substantiate your case on me a bit more? Furthermore, why are you voting now? | ||
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Everyone, top 3 lynches? Mine are: gobbledydook, Breshke, abuse. | ||
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