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/in
First post. How can i check how old this account is?
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Nvm, figured it out (did not edit because of warning).
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Also, your posts are giving me BH vibes.
Hello everyone. I am not sure how to quote someone so if the above quote was wrong please tell me how. (I checked preview and it looked right)
What does BH stand for?
For awhile i thought VT stood for vigilante not vanilla town. Also this kenpachi rule is useless.
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+ Show Spoiler +On June 16 2014 10:49 YouKnowZhou wrote:
Show nested quote +
I understand your concern. Let me elucedate: Kenpachi's rule actually works. Your concerned bcuz you assume a townie would vote a vt claim so scum could claim vt then a townie votes and gets "baited". Your concern is wrong bcuz a townie would never do this. this is part of the kenpachi's rule.
the next part is that you assume it looks scummy, which it isn't. scum would never claim vt bcuz scum wants to be able to fakeclaim blue at lylo or sumthing. scum wants to blend in but they are jumpy silly folk. kenpachi rule always works, bcuz it never fails. tyvm
Tbh, I could care less that you claimed VT. Except for the fact that if you are VT, then mafia will hit outside of you to hit a pr, and that's stupid that you would give mafia that information...
What I care more about, and the reason why I'm voting you, is your claim that I have limited information. The only ones who have limited information are town, so calling me town, instantly when the game starts is super super odd.
It means you have much information. You know who have much information? MAfia, hence my vote on you.
Idc about kenpachi's rule, and I think it's stupid.My vote is not on you for that, but for what I bolded.
What if he is a blue player(I assume this is same as pr) and he is trying to lure mafia away from himself, because he thinks a blue player is worth more than a VT.
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On June 16 2014 10:49 YouKnowZhou wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 10:47 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 10:36 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 10:33 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 10:21 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 10:16 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 10:12 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 09:50 27ninjabunnies wrote:
I don't like that he wants to ignore me completely. And that he has to immediately come out and say he is vt. On June 16 2014 09:52 27ninjabunnies wrote:
So ##Vote: YKZ Kenpachi Rule ##vote 27ninjabunnies Kenpachi rule? So rumor has it, There is a guy, called Kenpachi, and at the game start, he says "hi, i am Kenpachi and i am a townie." The first guy casting doubt on that dude is always scum, that's the "Kenpachi rule" It's a stupid rule, and has no basis to why I am reading YKZ as scum. On June 16 2014 10:27 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 10:16 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 10:12 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 09:50 27ninjabunnies wrote:
I don't like that he wants to ignore me completely. And that he has to immediately come out and say he is vt. On June 16 2014 09:52 27ninjabunnies wrote:
So ##Vote: YKZ Kenpachi Rule ##vote 27ninjabunnies Kenpachi rule? The Kenpachi rule, named after its author Kenpachi, is a TL adage reflecting the idea that without a clear and better motivation for a vote, it is almost certainly a scumtell when a player votes a player who claimed VT at the start of the game. Kenpachi's rule, in broader form, is: Without a blantant display of humor, a vote on a vt claim comes almost always from a scum player. The core of Kenpachi rule is that a vt claim by its nature is not suspicious to a town player, who isn't hunting for blues. Without a clear motivation for a vt claim, it looks odd to scum, who want to attack someone safely. A corollary of the Kenpachi rule is the reverse phenomenon: the first vt claim is almost always sincere. These definitions don't exactly match up... You can search it on TL for urself, but it's not about claiming townie, as 27ninjabunnies asserts. The rule is about claiming vanilla townie. Basicly, scum want to jump on something, and a VT claim looks basicly not intresting to a townie who isn't hunting for blues. It looks unique though to someone who is hunting for blues: scum. But knowing all of this, couldn't you say you're VT regardless of alignment, bait someone's suspicion and then claim Kenpachi rule? I'm having trouble understanding why at the very start of the game scum would be more prone to jumping on something that looks scummy. I mean if scum's job is to blend in, why be the first to vote and make a case? There's always scrutiny that comes with doing so... I understand your concern. Let me elucedate: Kenpachi's rule actually works. Your concerned bcuz you assume a townie would vote a vt claim so scum could claim vt then a townie votes and gets "baited". Your concern is wrong bcuz a townie would never do this. this is part of the kenpachi's rule. the next part is that you assume it looks scummy, which it isn't. scum would never claim vt bcuz scum wants to be able to fakeclaim blue at lylo or sumthing. scum wants to blend in but they are jumpy silly folk. kenpachi rule always works, bcuz it never fails. tyvm
Can you explain why a townie would never do that. Also what does lylo stand for. I know it is a phase at the end of the game. I can probably figure out why a scum would fake claim blue if i knew the definition.
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So far I am leaning towards 27nb as scum. Although i said the kenpachi rule is useless, now that i understand it better, it does have some merit. It seems like for a scum to claim VT first day would be a tactic that would be stupidly selfish, since it would most likely hurt the whole scum team. It seems like a tactic only a bad scum team would use. (But how would a scum team know it had a disadvantage. Maybe with poor roles? Maybe by meta? I do not think a scum team would plan to use the kenpachi rule to their favor.) 27nb has not really commented on the kenpachi rule and is just dismissing it.
Also i am not voting for her yet.
Only eight out of the twelve players have posted so far, so it seems too early.
My reads for other players so far.
Artanis, sloosh and Ve have not said much so no read.
goodkarma seems to be playing standard. Nothing really sticking out at me for now. Maybe I will reread his posts.
Chezinu has a high ratio of text to information. Seems weird but it only the first day. I do not think this information is sufficient enough to even mention the s word.
YKZ seems to be a very knowledgeable player.
It seems for a stupid tactic for two scum to call each other out day 1. It seems like something that would be a risk that would be hard to get payed back on. Am i right about this? Another reason i am leaning towards 27nb, is if she is shown as scum, YKZ would then almost be proven as a town player and we would have a knowledgeable town player and only two more scum to hunt. Hopefully we could then protect him. I would not like to lynch someone with one of my two points being. "If we lynch her and shes a scum it will help a lot" because she still has a fair chance of not being scum. Also time is really precious for town so voting for such a long shot reason would show that town has bad chances after day one.
Please comment on my thoughts
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On June 16 2014 12:14 27ninjabunnies wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 12:12 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 12:03 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 11:59 slOosh wrote:
What is this "limited information" that you guys are getting at? On June 16 2014 09:37 YouKnowZhou wrote:
I'm a vt.
I'm not really replying to 27ninjabunnies for making a bad judgement call about any of the lynches. That would be unfair since he has limited information. I will be just trying to clarify some things so you, and everyone else here, could get a better impression about me. Of course, you would have to trust me on that.
What I'm trying to say is, YKZ good, lynching YKZ bad, mmkay? What's truly amazing here is what an awesome example this is for Kenpachi Rule Extended. Even after I call it you're still doing it. Assuming you do in fact flip scum I'll have to write a post game analysis just on the first few pages of this game. Maybe I could tie it in with a general Kenpachi and Kenpachi Rule Extended / Zephirdd Rule tutorial. I'm getting more excited by the minute! BH I thought you were some amazing mafia player? Obviously not because YOU ARE WRONG ON ME! And I'll disprove your kenpachi rule by the end of the game.
See the statement is suspicious to me "i'll disprove your kenpachi rule by the end of the game." why the end of the game. It could easily be prove "wrong" the first night. "wrong" as in if your lynched and shown as town. Or if YKZ is lynched and showed scum.
I am just trying to show where I think 27nb is thinking in a strange way. Maybe she just thinks that way normally.
I do not think the kenpachi rule can be proven wrong. I think it can be proven to not be 100% right though. I think saying it is wrong is stating it has no merit at all. I already explained why i thought a scum could potentially claim VT day one to attempt for an advantage.
Also sloosh thanks for posting. I think this kenpachi rule should still be discussed a little more, but I see where you think we should stop the seeming rigmarole.
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Also we have to vote before 8 p.m. Eastern time right? I am somewhat confused with how it says 3:32 for my post and it says 0:00 for the starting of the game post. Is this a feature of mafia?
I know the host said something about a timezone and also said he will be using his timezone, but i think it would be nice for us players to state the U.S. time day 1 ends, since so many of us are for the U.S.
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On June 16 2014 12:35 27ninjabunnies wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 12:32 Snickers wrote:On June 16 2014 12:14 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 12:12 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 12:03 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 11:59 slOosh wrote:
What is this "limited information" that you guys are getting at? On June 16 2014 09:37 YouKnowZhou wrote:
I'm a vt.
I'm not really replying to 27ninjabunnies for making a bad judgement call about any of the lynches. That would be unfair since he has limited information. I will be just trying to clarify some things so you, and everyone else here, could get a better impression about me. Of course, you would have to trust me on that.
What I'm trying to say is, YKZ good, lynching YKZ bad, mmkay? What's truly amazing here is what an awesome example this is for Kenpachi Rule Extended. Even after I call it you're still doing it. Assuming you do in fact flip scum I'll have to write a post game analysis just on the first few pages of this game. Maybe I could tie it in with a general Kenpachi and Kenpachi Rule Extended / Zephirdd Rule tutorial. I'm getting more excited by the minute! BH I thought you were some amazing mafia player? Obviously not because YOU ARE WRONG ON ME! And I'll disprove your kenpachi rule by the end of the game. See the statement is suspicious to me "i'll disprove your kenpachi rule by the end of the game." why the end of the game. It could easily be prove "wrong" the first night. "wrong" as in if your lynched and shown as town. Or if YKZ is lynched and showed scum. I am just trying to show where I think 27nb is thinking in a strange way. Maybe she just thinks that way normally. I do not think the kenpachi rule can be proven wrong. I think it can be proven to not be 100% right though. I think saying it is wrong is stating it has no merit at all. I already explained why i thought a scum could potentially claim VT day one to attempt for an advantage. Also sloosh thanks for posting. I think this kenpachi rule should still be discussed a little more, but I see where you think we should stop the seeming rigmarole. I'm saying by the end of the game because I'm not getting lynched today! Straight up! And if I do, I'm going down swinging. And if that's the case, I will prove it's not 100% right as you say. And how am I thinking ina strange way? I've blatantly and straight forwardly laid out my case for you.
I think you are thinking in a strange way because of my post you are responding to. I said that YKZ could be lynched and showed as scum. That would also prove the kenpachi rule as not 100% right. You responded to that and still did not understand that you could not be lynched and the rule could be shown as not 100% right at day one, not the end of the game.
Also it think it is weird how confident you were with saying "Obviously not because YOU ARE WRONG ON ME" but then you say by the end of the day. If i was being confident about proving someone wrong. I would have said, I could prove you wrong, even by day one with these one of these two lynches showing these respective outcomes, but will for sure prove you wrong by the end of the game.
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On June 16 2014 12:38 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 12:26 Snickers wrote:
So far I am leaning towards 27nb as scum. Although i said the kenpachi rule is useless, now that i understand it better, it does have some merit. It seems like for a scum to claim VT first day would be a tactic that would be stupidly selfish, since it would most likely hurt the whole scum team. It seems like a tactic only a bad scum team would use. (But how would a scum team know it had a disadvantage. Maybe with poor roles? Maybe by meta? I do not think a scum team would plan to use the kenpachi rule to their favor.) 27nb has not really commented on the kenpachi rule and is just dismissing it.
Also i am not voting for her yet.
Only eight out of the twelve players have posted so far, so it seems too early.
My reads for other players so far.
Artanis, sloosh and Ve have not said much so no read.
goodkarma seems to be playing standard. Nothing really sticking out at me for now. Maybe I will reread his posts.
Chezinu has a high ratio of text to information. Seems weird but it only the first day. I do not think this information is sufficient enough to even mention the s word.
YKZ seems to be a very knowledgeable player.
It seems for a stupid tactic for two scum to call each other out day 1. It seems like something that would be a risk that would be hard to get payed back on. Am i right about this? Another reason i am leaning towards 27nb, is if she is shown as scum, YKZ would then almost be proven as a town player and we would have a knowledgeable town player and only two more scum to hunt. Hopefully we could then protect him. I would not like to lynch someone with one of my two points being. "If we lynch her and shes a scum it will help a lot" because she still has a fair chance of not being scum. Also time is really precious for town so voting for such a long shot reason would show that town has bad chances after day one.
Please comment on my thoughts I think you should avoid "pairing" these two players. It is possible that they are both scum, one of them is scum, or both are town. It's dangerous thinking to do a "one of these two are scum", since it's exploitable / just not true in some cases. Additionally, we want to lynch scum period. Lynching into bunnies hoping that she is scum so that YKZ is town is not a good way to go about it. We want to lynch bunnies because we think she is scum, or lynch YKZ because we think he is scum or lynch player X because we think they are scum. Nothing more.
Thanks for commenting. I actually had wrote a similar thing to your first statement then quoted over it and then proceeded to say Fuck it lets do it live.
But yea I am saying I am leaning towards 27nb, especially now because her posting seems off to me. I was trying to show the pros of lynching her if for some magical reason we have no better person to lynch by night time. I was attempting to conclude that it would be horrible for town to do that. (it would be horrible to pair them and rely on one as scum, one not when both could be townies.) thanks for clearing my statement up
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Good post release, I wanted to comment on some of your points.
1.I think it should be stated that 27nb mentioned VT in a post before her vote post.
2.Also this "limited information" we all have different levels of information. This is a semi open game so we know what roles are possible but not the quantity. I am assuming that we all could be goons and VT? but even if we were not, information is simply not on the level of scum or town. A PR has more information that a VT because he knows his respective role exists in the game. So i think generally information goes scum>PR>Vt.
Also this "limited information" does not seem like a slip. 27nb was just trying to get the game going and I think two of the people she mentioned did not post. Even now three people have not posted so I would say we all have limited information.
3.Your point on YKZ claiming he only slips as mafia while playing town. I think this is 10000x more worthy than the "limited information" post. Is YKZ's slip the "limited information" post? I still think this point is very important even though I do not think YKZ slipped with the kenpachi rule or the "limited information"
4. I do not think talk about blue would lead to mafia finding out the blue players. Although it seems bad to claim blue players day one right? If I was scum and said I was vigilante and there was actually someone vigilante, they would shoot me the first night. If I was VT and claimed vigilante, it would help lead scum to target a "less worthy player". But the risk seems to high for that tactic to be valuable. Also i used "less worthy player" because a smart VT would obviously be more worthy than an unintelligent vigilante that shot a PR.
5. Also that speculate post was really ambiguous and I think i may have caused that. I was not speculating that YKZ was a blue. I was trying to show a possibility that was being overlooked by a player. Then 27nb said "I wouldnt speculate" well is she telling me not to speculate or saying she would not personally speculate.
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On June 16 2014 10:49 YouKnowZhou wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 10:47 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 10:36 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 10:33 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 10:21 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 10:16 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 10:12 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 09:50 27ninjabunnies wrote:
I don't like that he wants to ignore me completely. And that he has to immediately come out and say he is vt. On June 16 2014 09:52 27ninjabunnies wrote:
So ##Vote: YKZ Kenpachi Rule ##vote 27ninjabunnies Kenpachi rule? So rumor has it, There is a guy, called Kenpachi, and at the game start, he says "hi, i am Kenpachi and i am a townie." The first guy casting doubt on that dude is always scum, that's the "Kenpachi rule" It's a stupid rule, and has no basis to why I am reading YKZ as scum. On June 16 2014 10:27 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 10:16 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 10:12 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 09:50 27ninjabunnies wrote:
I don't like that he wants to ignore me completely. And that he has to immediately come out and say he is vt. On June 16 2014 09:52 27ninjabunnies wrote:
So ##Vote: YKZ Kenpachi Rule ##vote 27ninjabunnies Kenpachi rule? The Kenpachi rule, named after its author Kenpachi, is a TL adage reflecting the idea that without a clear and better motivation for a vote, it is almost certainly a scumtell when a player votes a player who claimed VT at the start of the game. Kenpachi's rule, in broader form, is: Without a blantant display of humor, a vote on a vt claim comes almost always from a scum player. The core of Kenpachi rule is that a vt claim by its nature is not suspicious to a town player, who isn't hunting for blues. Without a clear motivation for a vt claim, it looks odd to scum, who want to attack someone safely. A corollary of the Kenpachi rule is the reverse phenomenon: the first vt claim is almost always sincere. These definitions don't exactly match up... You can search it on TL for urself, but it's not about claiming townie, as 27ninjabunnies asserts. The rule is about claiming vanilla townie. Basicly, scum want to jump on something, and a VT claim looks basicly not intresting to a townie who isn't hunting for blues. It looks unique though to someone who is hunting for blues: scum. But knowing all of this, couldn't you say you're VT regardless of alignment, bait someone's suspicion and then claim Kenpachi rule? I'm having trouble understanding why at the very start of the game scum would be more prone to jumping on something that looks scummy. I mean if scum's job is to blend in, why be the first to vote and make a case? There's always scrutiny that comes with doing so... I understand your concern. Let me elucedate: Kenpachi's rule actually works. Your concerned bcuz you assume a townie would vote a vt claim so scum could claim vt then a townie votes and gets "baited". Your concern is wrong bcuz a townie would never do this. this is part of the kenpachi's rule. the next part is that you assume it looks scummy, which it isn't. scum would never claim vt bcuz scum wants to be able to fakeclaim blue at lylo or sumthing. scum wants to blend in but they are jumpy silly folk. kenpachi rule always works, bcuz it never fails. tyvm
Also thought it should be pointed out that YKZ says the kenpachi rule "almost always" works and then says it "always works" without showing that his knowledge of the ruled changed between the posts.
When we make posts we should try to stop assuming things. Thanks everybody for helping me with my posting and questions.
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On June 16 2014 09:50 27ninjabunnies wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 09:45 slOosh wrote:
Bunnies (ninja? 27?), who is smurf and why should we lynch him? YKZ is smurf. And at first, I just put him on the list to get conversation going. I don't like that he wants to ignore me completely. And that he has to immediately come out and say he is vt.
In an attempt to disprove one of the things release said.
next post where she votes for YKZ
Also, another point to why I don't like YKZ is the bolded.
Then votes.
I think it is safe to say she had multiple reasons, not only one.
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On June 16 2014 17:12 Release wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 12:26 Snickers wrote:
So far I am leaning towards 27nb as scum. Although i said the kenpachi rule is useless, now that i understand it better, it does have some merit. It seems like for a scum to claim VT first day would be a tactic that would be stupidly selfish, since it would most likely hurt the whole scum team. It seems like a tactic only a bad scum team would use. (But how would a scum team know it had a disadvantage. Maybe with poor roles? Maybe by meta? I do not think a scum team would plan to use the kenpachi rule to their favor.) 27nb has not really commented on the kenpachi rule and is just dismissing it.
Also i am not voting for her yet.
Only eight out of the twelve players have posted so far, so it seems too early.
My reads for other players so far.
Artanis, sloosh and Ve have not said much so no read.
goodkarma seems to be playing standard. Nothing really sticking out at me for now. Maybe I will reread his posts.
Chezinu has a high ratio of text to information. Seems weird but it only the first day. I do not think this information is sufficient enough to even mention the s word.
YKZ seems to be a very knowledgeable player.
It seems for a stupid tactic for two scum to call each other out day 1. It seems like something that would be a risk that would be hard to get payed back on. Am i right about this? Another reason i am leaning towards 27nb, is if she is shown as scum, YKZ would then almost be proven as a town player and we would have a knowledgeable town player and only two more scum to hunt. Hopefully we could then protect him. I would not like to lynch someone with one of my two points being. "If we lynch her and shes a scum it will help a lot" because she still has a fair chance of not being scum. Also time is really precious for town so voting for such a long shot reason would show that town has bad chances after day one.
Please comment on my thoughts First bold is incorrect. YKZ has been acted stubbornly incorrectly and has misrepresented information in a manner that implies that he is correct and 27nb is wrong (whereas the opposite is true). So you essentially have no reads? I doubt anyone has any solid reads except for/against 27nb and YKZ. Weird to include an entire paragraph about null. The above implies bad/useless town but the next paragraph changes my read completely (as it did for 27nb). Second bold: You would prefer that YKZ be town and therefore believe that 27nb is scum? The roles have already been determined. That is a complete lack of reasoning for wanting a lynch but still being swayed? That reeks of scum trying to jump on the bandwagon. Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 12:32 Snickers wrote:On June 16 2014 12:14 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 12:12 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 12:03 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 11:59 slOosh wrote:
What is this "limited information" that you guys are getting at? On June 16 2014 09:37 YouKnowZhou wrote:
I'm a vt.
I'm not really replying to 27ninjabunnies for making a bad judgement call about any of the lynches. That would be unfair since he has limited information. I will be just trying to clarify some things so you, and everyone else here, could get a better impression about me. Of course, you would have to trust me on that.
What I'm trying to say is, YKZ good, lynching YKZ bad, mmkay? What's truly amazing here is what an awesome example this is for Kenpachi Rule Extended. Even after I call it you're still doing it. Assuming you do in fact flip scum I'll have to write a post game analysis just on the first few pages of this game. Maybe I could tie it in with a general Kenpachi and Kenpachi Rule Extended / Zephirdd Rule tutorial. I'm getting more excited by the minute! BH I thought you were some amazing mafia player? Obviously not because YOU ARE WRONG ON ME! And I'll disprove your kenpachi rule by the end of the game. See the statement is suspicious to me "i'll disprove your kenpachi rule by the end of the game." why the end of the game. It could easily be prove "wrong" the first night. "wrong" as in if your lynched and shown as town. Or if YKZ is lynched and showed scum.I am just trying to show where I think 27nb is thinking in a strange way. Maybe she just thinks that way normally. I do not think the kenpachi rule can be proven wrong. I think it can be proven to not be 100% right though. I think saying it is wrong is stating it has no merit at all. I already explained why i thought a scum could potentially claim VT day one to attempt for an advantage. Also sloosh thanks for posting. I think this kenpachi rule should still be discussed a little more, but I see where you think we should stop the seeming rigmarole. That is a strange statement because asking for town to die to prove something is ridiculous, and is against our goal to kill mafia. However, the second part is correct. Why would you include the first part in this statement? Reeks of mafia. Also quick note on Scientific Method: Nothing can be proven correct, but 1 counterexample demonstrates a need to change the hypothesis. And from 27nb's perspective, I take a neutral stance on what she said. By the end of the game sounds like she was saying that she would be revealed as town when the game conclude, assuming that she would survive the entire game. As opposed to end of the day by getting a lynch of YKZ, but, at that point, not many people had taken a stance on the situation. It's passive but focussed on moving the game forward (as opposed to YKZ's comments which were designed to draw attention to himself and his survival). -----------------------Line for separation-------------------------- Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 13:49 Snickers wrote:
Good post release, I wanted to comment on some of your points.
1.I think it should be stated that 27nb mentioned VT in a post before her vote post.
2.Also this "limited information" we all have different levels of information. This is a semi open game so we know what roles are possible but not the quantity. I am assuming that we all could be goons and VT? but even if we were not, information is simply not on the level of scum or town. A PR has more information that a VT because he knows his respective role exists in the game. So i think generally information goes scum>PR>Vt.
Also this "limited information" does not seem like a slip. 27nb was just trying to get the game going and I think two of the people she mentioned did not post. Even now three people have not posted so I would say we all have limited information. On day 1, information :: Mafia > Town.
3.Your point on YKZ claiming he only slips as mafia while playing town. I think this is 10000x more worthy than the "limited information" post. Is YKZ's slip the "limited information" post? I still think this point is very important even though I do not think YKZ slipped with the kenpachi rule or the "limited information"
4. I do not think talk about blue would lead to mafia finding out the blue players. Although it seems bad to claim blue players day one right? If I was scum and said I was vigilante and there was actually someone vigilante, they would shoot me the first night. If I was VT and claimed vigilante, it would help lead scum to target a "less worthy player". But the risk seems to high for that tactic to be valuable. Also i used "less worthy player" because a smart VT would obviously be more worthy than an unintelligent vigilante that shot a PR.
5. Also that speculate post was really ambiguous and I think i may have caused that. I was not speculating that YKZ was a blue. I was trying to show a possibility that was being overlooked by a player. Then 27nb said "I wouldnt speculate" well is she telling me not to speculate or saying she would not personally speculate.
@1: That was a question, separate from her vote. @2: I'm pretty sure we don't use roles on "night 0." (check the Godfather role on the OP) @3: Not too sure what you're asking but I can clarify: "Limited information" indicates scum because on Day 1, no one has any information except for the mafia, so assuming that YKZ is town, he should have less than or equal information to everyone else. Clearly, "limited information" implies that he has more and therefore cannot be town. next point: The Kenpachi rule does not apply but he insisted repeatedly and incorrectly that it did apply, causing chaos in town and trying to lead a mislynch. @4: That sounds really scummy. On day 1, blues have no information more than town so we need to keep them alive. Talking about blues can only increase that chance that mafia corrects identifies blue so talking about blue on day 1 favors mafia. @5: "You wouldnt speculate bcuz you think i am scum. Unless of cours u kno i am not scum. So I caught u in scum slip." this is incorrect. 27nb who thinks YKZ is scum does not speculate whether YKZ is blue because 27nb believes that YKZ is red. YKZ presents information as though 27nb is speculating which is the complete opposite of what is actually happening. Read the second part closely. Speculation only occurs if town is the hypothesis, which is not the case, so again, YKZ makes an incorrect statement and misleads us. 27nb's statement is not a scum slip by any stretch of the imagination. See below: Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 11:09 27ninjabunnies wrote:
Snickers, you need to work a bit on your quoting, but not bad.
Just hit quote in the upper right corner of the post. It works better!
Also, pr means power role, so yes means same as blue.
I think coming out like that puts yourself in the spotlight.
i wouldnt speculate whether or not he is blue right now. Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 11:22 27ninjabunnies wrote:
OMG Bh<3
WTG buddy!
hahaha. im laughing my ass off right now.
So what I'm saying here is that I think you are scum, and I'm not removing my vote from you..
But in the offchance you are town- which I don't believe one bit- town shouldnt speculate this early in the game whether or not a person is blue or just vt. That gives tooooo much information for mafia. That's what I was saying in sayng we shouldnt speculate whether or not you are blue.
That was definitely not a slip, so stop trying to grasp at straws because I caught you d1. Overall, this sounds like a soft defense of YKZ, and such a defense is untenable.\ + Show Spoiler +and with that I am off to bed
So i do not think you guys should pick a statement and bold it when right after that statement i said why it would be terrible to do that.
I was not asking for 27nb to die, I was saying it was strange for her to act super confident and not mention how she could prove him wrong less than 48 hours than now.
1.In my above post i showed where it was linked to her vote post. Also Her first post about VT was a question. The second one was not. It was then linked to the Vote Post.
2.and 3. Last time I am explaining this unless someone one new to the thread does not understand this.
"no one has any information except for the mafia,"
Since this is a semi open game the knowledge of a PR and a VT is different. Pr knows that his respective role exists.
Also we all have information through the posts.
4.So this actually makes sense why talking about blue would be bad day one. (Same logic applies for why we try to get scrum to speak on day one). But i do not think what i said was scummy. I think you said I was scummy then put a true statement after it to try and fool somebody.
5. I still do not understand this speculation idea.
I do not think you understand me and are twisting my words a lot to hurt me. You also seem to be twisting 27nb's words a lot to protect her. You seemed to have missed the part where she mentions VT without the question mark.
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Ok I'm on a mobile phone ATM and will not have a proper keyboard 9 hours from now.
First off. 27nb i will try to be more clear in nine hours with examples. My overall feelings on you is this. You were being super confident but did not use all the smack talk available to you. Again I will try to be more clear later.
Somebody wanted to know my thoughts on release.
For awhile I started to think that neither he , 27nb or ykz was scum. I think 27nb is most likely town now.
I think release is actually scum. He has aligned himself with bunnies and defended her but I think she was not in need of defense . I do not see a reason to defend someone not in trouble unless u know they are town. I think release saw a good time to cause confusion while also looking extremly town. It is good to align with a town as scum as a future defense, right?
Some people think I am siding with YKZ. I do not think it is smart to be siding with someone so early unless u know his or her role. I would argue I was going after 27 nab rather than defending YKZ. Also i said he seems knowledgable.
I think he def still is because of his knowledge on the lenpachi rule. You guys have been saying his use of it was wrong but not his definition of it. Also he is bh which u guys know him so he has played a lot. It seems weird for a player that has played a lot to slip so early. ( I know it sounds life I'm defending him now) I think he is knowledgable regardless of his role.
His posts do seem weird tho. He adds on little joking phrases to the end of some posts. Also why create a smurf then show ur actual self. I think he was reacting strongly to something.
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On June 17 2014 05:47 Lazermonkey wrote:
Snickers seems like a typical newbie-player TBH. I do find some of his posts kinda wierd but overall he seems to be very open with his thoughts and I like that. Not someone I'd like to lynch today.
Please explain why i am newbie.
People keep throwing around a lot of comments with assumptions. I'm just trying to clear that up. Release completely missed the fact that 27nb said vt twice before her lynch post. In my opinion releases huge first comment is based off something that is wrong. This does not mean it has zero merit. Release was complaining something along the line of ykz being misleading. I think it is misleading to boost a huge case on something and not even notice that 27nb did something that may(I think it does) against his case. It seems release is not intelligent or is trying to mislead
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On June 17 2014 06:10 Lazermonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2014 05:58 Snickers wrote:On June 17 2014 05:47 Lazermonkey wrote:
Snickers seems like a typical newbie-player TBH. I do find some of his posts kinda wierd but overall he seems to be very open with his thoughts and I like that. Not someone I'd like to lynch today. Please explain why i am newbie. People keep throwing around a lot of comments with assumptions. I'm just trying to clear that up. Release completely missed the fact that 27nb said vt twice before her lynch post. In my opinion releases huge first comment is based off something that is wrong. This does not mean it has zero merit. Release was complaining something along the line of ykz being misleading. I think it is misleading to boost a huge case on something and not even notice that 27nb did something that may(I think it does) against his case. It seems release is not intelligent or is trying to mislead I'm not super interested in explaining why I think that you look like a noobie : D. Your first couple of posts had some common logical fallacies IMO but that's not really relevant. I want to kill scum. Yep, your post about 27nb was alot like the point I was making, which is a good sign since I know that I'm town. I agree with that Release case on 27nb was bad but I'm not not convinced at all that that's because he is scum. He can very well be tunneling town as well.
I think it is relevant.
What is the point of posting something and not proving it when somebody asks you about it?
I think it just makes you look misleading. 
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On June 16 2014 12:26 Snickers wrote:
So far I am leaning towards 27nb as scum. Although i said the kenpachi rule is useless, now that i understand it better, it does have some merit. It seems like for a scum to claim VT first day would be a tactic that would be stupidly selfish, since it would most likely hurt the whole scum team. It seems like a tactic only a bad scum team would use. (But how would a scum team know it had a disadvantage. Maybe with poor roles? Maybe by meta? I do not think a scum team would plan to use the kenpachi rule to their favor.) 27nb has not really commented on the kenpachi rule and is just dismissing it.
Also i am not voting for her yet.
Only eight out of the twelve players have posted so far, so it seems too early.
My reads for other players so far.
Artanis, sloosh and Ve have not said much so no read.
goodkarma seems to be playing standard. Nothing really sticking out at me for now. Maybe I will reread his posts.
Chezinu has a high ratio of text to information. Seems weird but it only the first day. I do not think this information is sufficient enough to even mention the s word.
YKZ seems to be a very knowledgeable player.
It seems for a stupid tactic for two scum to call each other out day 1. It seems like something that would be a risk that would be hard to get payed back on. Am i right about this? Another reason i am leaning towards 27nb, is if she is shown as scum, YKZ would then almost be proven as a town player and we would have a knowledgeable town player and only two more scum to hunt. Hopefully we could then protect him. I would not like to lynch someone with one of my two points being. "If we lynch her and shes a scum it will help a lot" because she still has a fair chance of not being scum. Also time is really precious for town so voting for such a long shot reason would show that town has bad chances after day one.
Please comment on my thoughts
okay since many people believe i was making a connection.
I thought it would be common knowledge that neither of them could be scum. One could be scum. Or both could be scum. I thought the idea of both of them being scum would be really far off compared to the other alternatives because it would be a tactic that would be unnecessary unless scum felt at a disadvantage. So i did not type it out a second time after deleting it by mistake.
My whole after I would not like to lynch..... was that if a town had to lynch someone off of these points it would be very bad. I was trying to show how far of a "long sot" one being scum and the other not being was and that it was almost a silly reason to even post. But i thought it was still worth mentioning.
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On June 17 2014 08:25 Release wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2014 03:00 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 17 2014 02:39 Release wrote:
@Lazer (and everyone else): His actions alone are bad. The repetitiveness of the badness and refusal to change his play after being corrected manifest his mafia agenda. "blazinghand is stubborn, therefore he is mafia" and "blazinghand has scumslipped, therefore he is mafia" are both sentences that are like always super doops wrong. I certainly can be stubborn as mafia, but I'm always stubborn. And the scumslip thing, come on guys. I legit don't scumslip as scum, and scumslip all the time as town, ask like anyone who has played more than 2 games with me. Also, I'm just generally a stubborn bastard no matter what I roll; again, ask anyone who has played with me. I will say this though: although I don't particularly like that Release is all over me like a dog on a butt-flavored biscuit, I gotta give him credit: he IS all over me. He went through my filter and tried to find anything he could possibly construe as scummy and slapped it down in a big honkin filter dive case. Now, it's a big honkin WRONG filter drive case, but it's still a lot of effort. Maybe he was explicitly dodging Kenpachi Rule Extended, but he still gets mondo credit for putting in effort imo. Is release scummy for jumping in and just repeating what other people said? Eh, maybe. It's certainly a easy move for scum to make, but it's also worth noting that it's a move town would make. Suppose Release comes in and sees this horrible back and forth between me and 27nb, and for some weird reason becomes convinced I'm scum as a result. He wants to drop a vote on me, but also there's like no-one voting me, so he drops a hella big case. He does work, he does research. I give him credit for this, at least. Yes, it would have been good if he had an original idea, but if he didn't, he didn't. There's only so much to be said about me. Maybe you think he's scum because you think I'm scum and this is the most poorly executed bus ever, but really, 1) it would be a terrible way to do it, and 2) as SloOsh said (and he gets mucho townie points for this) you don't draw associative tells between unflipped players. Back onto the 27nb thing, Check it out. If you look at 27nb's filter, you see the initial push on me, and you see some interactions on me in places where I directly call out 27nb, but that's it as far as interactions with me. Check out some of the posts I made after the post that set off 27nb's "flag" so to speak about me being scummy: On June 16 2014 11:05 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 10:58 Snickers wrote:Also, your posts are giving me BH vibes.
Hello everyone. I am not sure how to quote someone so if the above quote was wrong please tell me how. (I checked preview and it looked right) What does BH stand for? For awhile i thought VT stood for vigilante not vanilla town. Also this kenpachi rule is useless. BH stands for "Blazinghand": he is a mafia-guy who is mean to newbies and throws around his "vet" status in games and thinks he is way better then everyone else. ne1 who thinks I am BH also thinks I am town tho cuz BH's favorite thing is to fake claim blue roles every game when he is scum. He would never claim vt as scum bcuz he wants to fake claim blue rofl In this post i'm explicitly stating I'm not BH and trying to fake not being me. Even worse, I'm setting up the "bh claiming vt must be town" meme and I later "accidentally" reveal myself to be BH. If I were someone who thought YKZ was scum and saw this, I'd be all over it. I'd point out that it's awfully CONVENIENT to say that and then "accidentally" reveal yourself to be bh. I'd write a case, or at least a post, or heck, at least a SENTENCE, about this. Since I'm already suspicious of YKZ, since I supposedly have a scumread on YKZ, responding to this would be a NATURAL thing to do if I was town and voting YKZ. And yet, no response from 27nb (who was in thread at the time) next.. On June 16 2014 11:34 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 11:27 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 11:13 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 11:09 27ninjabunnies wrote:
i wouldnt speculate whether or not he is blue right now. You wouldnt speculate bcuz you think i am scum. Unless of cours u kno i am not scum. So I caught u in scum slip. This reminds me of something you once said in Les Mafia: On May 22 2013 15:51 Blazinghand wrote:
DP, you're not bad, you're just wrong about scumslips. When I flip town, promise me this: for the next full game played, any time you mention scumslips you will say "I was wrong, BH was right, there is no such thing as a scumslip" Did something change? Yeah in the YKZ quote nobody thought I was blazinghand, so I thought I could get away with the fallacious "scumslip" argument, since you guys clearly aren't willing to accept the reasonable Kenpachi Rule argument. The fact of the matter is, 27nb IS scum because of Kenpachi Rule. I'm allowed to lie, cheat, steal, etc (well not cheat but you get the idea) to get you sheep to follow me and lynch him. The ends justify the means. also, 27nb's retconned case on me that's about me saying s/he doesn't have good info is based on, you guessed it, another scumslip. Let me get it through everyone's heads: I, Blazinghand, am by far the best scum player on TL Mafia. I may not be an amazing town player, I admit, but I am a GOD of scum, I only ever scumslip as town. You can look at my past games; every time someone calls me out for a scumslip, I'm town. You know why? As town, I don't have to bother worrying about scumslips cause I know I am innocent. As scum, I play a much cleaner game in terms of slips because I have to. So, 27nb's slip-based case on me actually proves how townie I am, and his/her hilarious backtracking on calling me potentially blue only shows how scummy 27nb is. Look at what I'm saying here. I'm literally admitting to lying to and deceiving the thread. I then say it's okay to lie and that the ends justify the means. Jesus christ on a stick with a cherry on top, how do you not flip out over this if you're town and think I'm scum? You'd be like "look, BH is obviously willing to lie. He was trying to pretend to be someone else while smurfing, which is a CLASSIC BH move when smurfing as scum. He even admits it, right here, in an attempt to defuse the situation. You can't let this slide guys, this is proof BH is scum" anyone who thinks I'm suspicious and has a vote on me, after reading that I admit to lying and trying to decieve the thread, would be ALL OVER this post. You want to know how 27nb responds, though? Here, I'll show you. On June 16 2014 11:39 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 11:34 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 11:27 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 11:13 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 11:09 27ninjabunnies wrote:
i wouldnt speculate whether or not he is blue right now. You wouldnt speculate bcuz you think i am scum. Unless of cours u kno i am not scum. So I caught u in scum slip. This reminds me of something you once said in Les Mafia: On May 22 2013 15:51 Blazinghand wrote:
DP, you're not bad, you're just wrong about scumslips. When I flip town, promise me this: for the next full game played, any time you mention scumslips you will say "I was wrong, BH was right, there is no such thing as a scumslip" Did something change? Yeah in the YKZ quote nobody thought I was blazinghand, so I thought I could get away with the fallacious "scumslip" argument, since you guys clearly aren't willing to accept the reasonable Kenpachi Rule argument. The fact of the matter is, 27nb IS scum because of Kenpachi Rule. I'm allowed to lie, cheat, steal, etc (well not cheat but you get the idea) to get you sheep to follow me and lynch him. The ends justify the means. also, 27nb's retconned case on me that's about me saying s/he doesn't have good info is based on, you guessed it, another scumslip. Let me get it through everyone's heads: I, Blazinghand, am by far the best scum player on TL Mafia. I may not be an amazing town player, I admit, but I am a GOD of scum, I only ever scumslip as town. You can look at my past games; every time someone calls me out for a scumslip, I'm town. You know why? As town, I don't have to bother worrying about scumslips cause I know I am innocent. As scum, I play a much cleaner game in terms of slips because I have to. So, 27nb's slip-based case on me actually proves how townie I am, and his/her hilarious backtracking on calling me potentially blue only shows how scummy 27nb is. You are soooooo wrong on me. It's super bad. And tbh, idc what you think of yourself, but you haven't impressed me ass the "best" in TL Mafia. I caught your mafia self d1. Get rekt! And as I said, Kenpachi rule is useless and stupid, and it will be highly disproved this game. I have no need to backtrack, and I had not backtracked anywhere. I'm going forward with this lynch and into the abyss you go! All 27nb sees is the part of the post directed at her. She argues about like backtracking or whatever, and says she's going forward with this lynch while literally ignoring possibly the most damning statement a player could make. If she was really town and really thought I was scum, at this point she'd say, not "blah blah kenpachi rule backtracking, your'e so bad and i'm so good", she'd say, "ah hah! Caught you in a lie, blazinghand, this is exactly what scum do!" You can see she's clearly not in a mindset of hunting scum, or hell, even actually PUSHING The wagon. She is putting on a big SHOW of pushing the wagon, but she's not actually doing it. She's not pointing out what I'm posting, or why I'm scum, just shouting about like one sentence in one post. She's not hunting scum. She's making noise. This is because she lacks the town mindset, the mindset that someone who really thought I was scum would have. Because 27nb is scum. vote her, for justice. @ first 4 paragraphs: The first sentence is again deliberate misrepresentation of the information that I have presented. Blazinghand is stubbornly wrong even when corrected and refuses to acknowledge corrections and is therefore mafia is the complete picture. This is the same misrepresentation of information he used earlier to cause chaos and it is used to cause chaos now. And the scumslip (which to my mind is the "more information") is NOT the reason that I think you are mafia. Please stop trying to twist information to suit your agenda. I do not merely repeat what has been said. I created a case on you with greater breadth and depth than 27nb did. And maybe you should pay more attention to what SloOsh is saying because he has asked useful questions when (mostly) you and 27nb have caused havoc in the thread. Now disregarding that, my case demonstrates that your logic in your play is incorrect. A proper defense is not to say "If I were scum, I would have..." because that is meaningless. Instead, you need to demonstrates that your logic is not incorrect. Otherwise, I think we should still construe YKZ's earlier posts as deliberate chaos. Show nested quote +On June 17 2014 03:11 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 17 2014 01:42 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release Boring, why so? And I know I'm town, so you think Release is more likely scum defending a town here? Or do you think it's scum defending a partner this early into the game? I'm thinking we're both town here. Though, i agree, he is basically just sayng everything I've already said. Boring because you both just kept repeating the same things but in different words and it wasn't going anywhere for me to get a read on either of you. I don't know your alignment and I'm not going to make an association between unflipped players. People did that in cell. You supported that as mafia. Why are you trying to create associations now? On June 17 2014 01:45 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 22:45 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 22:11 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I kinda like this vote. And I kinda like Artanis' face. Release sounds a lot like he's trying to justify feeling the way he does rather than explaining honestly WHY he feels the way he does. Does anyone else think so? I agree Release is looking scummy, but I wouldn't use that exact wording. He seems heavily invested in his case, but is only leaning towards ninja's side of this debate. These two statements especially didn't sit right with me from Release's post on 21:10 15 June 2014: "As the situation between 27bunnies and YKZ currently stands, I am leaning on the side of 27bunnies." And yet he ends this same post: "I think 27bunnie has the right idea, but has not manifested clearly (or in enough detail) what needs to be said to properly incriminate YKZ." Release doesn't seem that interested in what may develop from YKZ. He already has the verdict in mind... This is a HUGE inconsistency from how he starts his post. You have a point here I really like. Which makes me wonder if scum defending a town here. He's not even considering in what YKZ could or could not do. But then if that's the case, and Release is scum, then YKZ is town, and I don't like that. I really really want to be right that YKZ is scum. This gives me a slight scumread on you. Wanting to be right is an easy reason to lean back on without actually saying anything. On June 17 2014 02:38 Release wrote:
Currently this is our only point of discussion, although your vote on me now introduces a discussion about me.
wordy words Boring. You could've introduced a discussion about anyone that had an opinion on the case for bullshit reasons. You also keep repeating yourself in the post as well. If you want me to actually read your posts thoroughly, be more to the point. I'm not interested in your description of what you provided and what you want. It won't help me get a more accurate read on you. On June 17 2014 02:38 slOosh wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I'm sorry, how is Release the perpetrator if it started as a spat between YKZ and 27nb? He hasn't rehashed anything, it's original content and wordiness is alignment null. Release made a giant post about stuff that was really boring so I didn't get very far in it. The first part is definitely rehash. You're right in that he did add some original content afterwards though. Wordiness being alignment null is debatable but that debate wouldn't go anywhere so let's agree to disagree on that. I "repeat" myself because YKZ makes similar chaotic plays with the same agenda. I rehashed some of the dispute because I wanted to provide a complete argument as to why YKZ is mafia and I want to be specific about my references. Show nested quote +On June 17 2014 03:19 Lazermonkey wrote:@Release: I'm sorry, I missread your post a little bit. Your argument is actually quite different from Bunnies. I do, however, still fail to understand how YKZ actions make him scum. Your argument seems like WIFOM to me. It's like you assume that YKZ is already scum and then try to justify his actions from that point of you. Have you even considered YKZ's actions from a town PoV? Assuming that he is trying to create chaos by missinterpreting Bunnies is a big leap of faith. I also do think that there is merit to the Kenpachi rule in this case. Even if Bunnies said nummerous times that the VT claim wasn't the reason she voted for YKZ, she still pointed out two times: On June 16 2014 09:42 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 09:37 YouKnowZhou wrote:
I'm a vt.
I'm not really replying to 27ninjabunnies for making a bad judgement call about any of the lynches. That would be unfair since he has limited information. I will be just trying to clarify some things so you, and everyone else here, could get a better impression about me. Of course, you would have to trust me on that.
What I'm trying to say is, YKZ good, lynching YKZ bad, mmkay? Awwwww, how rude. Don't you know you are supposed to talk to a person when they are talking to you? Also-she. And Why right off the bat claim vt? On June 16 2014 09:50 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 09:45 slOosh wrote:
Bunnies (ninja? 27?), who is smurf and why should we lynch him? YKZ is smurf. And at first, I just put him on the list to get conversation going. I don't like that he wants to ignore me completely. And that he has to immediately come out and say he is vt. Looking at these two posts, you get the impression that Bunnies is indeed suspicious of YKZ because of the claim. Bunnies later on refutes this by saying that her suspicion of YKZ had nothing to do with the VT claim, HOWEVER: On June 16 2014 09:52 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 09:50 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 09:37 YouKnowZhou wrote:
I'm a vt.
I'm not really replying to 27ninjabunnies for making a bad judgement call about any of the lynches. That would be unfair since he has limited information. I will be just trying to clarify some things so you, and everyone else here, could get a better impression about me. Of course, you would have to trust me on that.
What I'm trying to say is, YKZ good, lynching YKZ bad, mmkay? This post has no substance. And why would you talk down to bunny about him having limited information? Do you have less limited information? Also, another point to why I don't like YKZ is the bolded. He says I have limited information. How would he know that I am town? Well, if he was mafia he would know that I am town. So ##Vote: YKZ Note the bolded part. It doesn't say "look, this is a really scummy thing YKZ said", it says "look, this is another point I don't like". If she didn't care about him claiming VT, why say that it was another part she didn't like? If there is something that I find null in someones filter I don't say "Hey, this is wierd". I just don't say a thing about it. And the thing is that Bunnies doesn't say anything about this untill YKZ votes her with because of the Kenpachi rule. It is therefore impossible for us to know whether she is talking the truth or not about not caring about the VT thing. Her actions in the thread does, however, indicate that this was something she cared about. Which makes me belive that all this was just a massive backpaddle by Bunnies after she got caught doing scummy stuff. ##Vote: 27ninjabunnies Here is a very concise argument train of thought for you: YKZ claims vt 27 questions claim and in a SEPARATE post votes for "limited information" YKZ repeatedly claims that the vote is for the "vt" claim (incorrect/bad play, currently not particularly indicative of alignment) 27 states the vote is not for the claim, but for the "limited information" (lots of back and forth) but ultimately, YKZ insists that 27 is scum because of vote due to her vote due to vt claim (incorrect again while being corrected). here we consider: if YKZ were town, he would recognize his mistake and reevaluate the situation, and conclude that he was incorrect and therefore 27 is not mafia, and YKZ should unvote. However, YKZ doesn't and, therefore, YKZ has made a conscious choice to ignore corrections to his play, which is indicative of mafia. --------------------------------------- But you should consider the magnitude of the reasoning. You are correct in sayi ng that "another" implies the vt is relevant. However, the next two sentences and the vote form an independently logical sequence of events (and the vt claim alone did not procure a vote). This implies that "limited information" is the main reason for the vote. Care about it? somewhat. Enough to merit use of Kenpachi rule? doubt it. Show nested quote +On June 17 2014 03:22 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 17 2014 03:13 slOosh wrote:Hmm, not quite feeling the flaming spears of logic and justice yet. On June 16 2014 12:46 slOosh wrote:
I can see a somewhat reasonable case to be made that bunnies is not a stellar townie, but I don't see the case being made that she must be scum. Why isn't she "bad" town? I think my most recent post demonstrates that 27nb's attention is drawn towards statements about her, rather than incriminating things I say-- even a bad townie would naturally respond to me saying things like "I lied to decieve town because I thought I could get away with it", whereas scum regardless of badness would naturally respond to me saying kenpachi rule but NOT respond to additional evidence. It's not a matter of skill, it's a matter of mindset. A townie, even a new townie (I remember being one), when thyey have a scumread on someone and that person does something really scummy, they RESPOND to it. they add it to their case. It's the natural thought process of a town player REGARDLESS of skill. 27nb is not showing this natural thought process. Look at her responses to my posts. Is she responding to things I say that are scummy or inconsistent and pointing out their inconsistency? Or is she just shouting about my first post whenever she gets the chance, and not actually trying to convince people to lynch me based on new evidence that emerges? A townie who was really tunnelled on me would LOVE to point out new scummy things I say, because he's still trying to formulate and develop a case. 27nb is always talking about me, sure, but look at WHAT she's responding to. Not the stuff a townie would. This is always your argument. 'Not one specific town agenda and therefore mafia." There are multiple ways to play town (since you clearly claim to enjoy pretending to scumslip and most others do not). Show nested quote +On June 17 2014 03:48 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 17 2014 03:40 Lazermonkey wrote:On June 17 2014 03:33 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 17 2014 03:28 Lazermonkey wrote:On June 17 2014 03:21 slOosh wrote:
Lazermonkey, what is the "scummy stuff" that bunnies is backpedaling from? The quick version: 1. Bunnies says that YKZ's VT claim is wierd and that she doesn't like it. 2. Bunnies says that ANOTHER thing the she doesn't like about YKZ is his "scum slip". Bunnes votes for YKZ. 3. YKZ votes Bunnies because Kenpachi rule. 4. Bunnies claims that the VT claim wasn't a reason she voted YKZ. 4. It wasn't the MAIN reason I voted YKZ. Okay, I'm not really interested in discussing this further with you. My goal isn't to make you confess in the thread. Its to convince the others. It is basically that it is impossible for us to know that what you are claiming is true or not. Based on what you wrote earlier I do find it more likely that you are scum than that you are town though. Understandable: also ##UnvoteI know this is not going to get votes off of me, and I'm fine with that. But YKZ's last few posts have been a bit towny, especially his read on Artansis. I'm starting to worry we are two town fighting. I also don't want my judgement clouded by my vote on YKZ and would like to hear more from other people. His posting has mostly been to say that town (a very specific town) would have done X but did Y and therefore mafia. Do you guys agree with this kind of arguement? Because I certainly do not. I urge you to reconsider you unvote on YKZ. Show nested quote +On June 17 2014 07:05 goodkarma wrote:On June 17 2014 02:38 slOosh wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I'm sorry, how is Release the perpetrator if it started as a spat between YKZ and 27nb? He hasn't rehashed anything, it's original content and wordiness is alignment null. On June 16 2014 22:11 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I kinda like this vote. And I kinda like Artanis' face. Release sounds a lot like he's trying to justify feeling the way he does rather than explaining honestly WHY he feels the way he does. Does anyone else think so? Hmm? How does it make him scum? On June 16 2014 22:45 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 22:11 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I kinda like this vote. And I kinda like Artanis' face. Release sounds a lot like he's trying to justify feeling the way he does rather than explaining honestly WHY he feels the way he does. Does anyone else think so? I agree Release is looking scummy, but I wouldn't use that exact wording. He seems heavily invested in his case, but is only leaning towards ninja's side of this debate. These two statements especially didn't sit right with me from Release's post on 21:10 15 June 2014: "As the situation between 27bunnies and YKZ currently stands, I am leaning on the side of 27bunnies." And yet he ends this same post: "I think 27bunnie has the right idea, but has not manifested clearly (or in enough detail) what needs to be said to properly incriminate YKZ." Release doesn't seem that interested in what may develop from YKZ. He already has the verdict in mind... This is a HUGE inconsistency from how he starts his post. Where's the inconsistency? Leaning may not be indicative of degree of conviction, but merely the direction of it. On June 17 2014 01:45 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 22:45 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 22:11 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I kinda like this vote. And I kinda like Artanis' face. Release sounds a lot like he's trying to justify feeling the way he does rather than explaining honestly WHY he feels the way he does. Does anyone else think so? I agree Release is looking scummy, but I wouldn't use that exact wording. He seems heavily invested in his case, but is only leaning towards ninja's side of this debate. These two statements especially didn't sit right with me from Release's post on 21:10 15 June 2014: "As the situation between 27bunnies and YKZ currently stands, I am leaning on the side of 27bunnies." And yet he ends this same post: "I think 27bunnie has the right idea, but has not manifested clearly (or in enough detail) what needs to be said to properly incriminate YKZ." Release doesn't seem that interested in what may develop from YKZ. He already has the verdict in mind... This is a HUGE inconsistency from how he starts his post. You have a point here I really like. Which makes me wonder if scum defending a town here. He's not even considering in what YKZ could or could not do. But then if that's the case, and Release is scum, then YKZ is town, and I don't like that. I really really want to be right that YKZ is scum. You are starting to make associations here and I don't think that's a good idea. Focus on them as individuals. I'm not really sure what else to say here except that there's a large variance of degrees. How I see it, you have release saying "I'm leaning YKZ scum" on first quote and saying "I am unequivocally convinced YKZ is scum" on second one. Release has since posted something in disagreement, but this is what I see when looking at that post. What's more, when would town ever say "...what needs to be said to incriminate..."? That's some super-scummy wording. Town looks to determine who's scum, not to make someone look like scum. Further, when thinking back on my own games the way Release has posted is almost exactly how I handled my first mafia game. I posted a huge case on an easy target then AFK'ed, only posting when I felt I had to. Looking at a few of his past games (when he was town), he had a much easier to follow flow with his posts. Every post in this game feels very calculated, and given how I personally liked to post in previous games as scum, it's easy for me to see how as an insecure newbie scum he would feel inclined to stack as much together as he could into a few very carefully planted posts. Incriminate: " To cause to appear guilty of a crime or fault; implicate" I believe that YKZ is guilty of a crime of fault, but others do not share that opinion with me. Therefore, it is my duty to convince others (you) of his guilt by causing him to appear to be guilty. I see nothing wrong with the use of the word. It is an apt choice. (would you have preferred implicate? same meaning) OP says to reduce spam / one-liners and I play the game fitfully (about an hour each time). Show nested quote +On June 17 2014 07:29 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 17 2014 04:46 slOosh wrote:Yea I so I think Artanis is scum. On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release Here is his first post, top of page 8. There are many unnatural things about this post. First is his complaining tone. We are only 5 pages in, and yet he calls it all "bullshit". It's totally out of place and unnatural. Then he moves away from it and blames Release. Two things here. One is that he does nothing to either comment on, or figure out said "bullshit". No reads or questions on either YKZ / 27nb. Nothing to try to figure either one out. Just a straight up dismissal of the whole thing, and moving on to someone else. Next is how he blames Release for it all. When I press him on this issue: On June 17 2014 03:11 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 17 2014 02:38 slOosh wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I'm sorry, how is Release the perpetrator if it started as a spat between YKZ and 27nb? He hasn't rehashed anything, it's original content and wordiness is alignment null. Release made a giant post about stuff that was really boring so I didn't get very far in it. The first part is definitely rehash. You're right in that he did add some original content afterwards though. Wordiness being alignment null is debatable but that debate wouldn't go anywhere so let's agree to disagree on that. Nothing but fluff. He doesn't offer any meaningful reason why Release is scum. Look at the backpedaling. "oh yea I guess he added content. I could argue that wordiness isn't alignment null but I won't". He doesn't really care to convince me or others why he finds Release scum. He just wants to put his vote somewhere to look like he is contributing. He dodges the question the first time around so I ask him again: On June 17 2014 03:26 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 17 2014 03:17 slOosh wrote:On June 17 2014 03:11 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 17 2014 02:38 slOosh wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I'm sorry, how is Release the perpetrator if it started as a spat between YKZ and 27nb? He hasn't rehashed anything, it's original content and wordiness is alignment null. Release made a giant post about stuff that was really boring so I didn't get very far in it. The first part is definitely rehash. You're right in that he did add some original content afterwards though. Wordiness being alignment null is debatable but that debate wouldn't go anywhere so let's agree to disagree on that. How is Release the perpetrator if it started as a spat between YKZ and 27nb? He's the perpetrator of the conversation continuing about that specific topic. Ridiculous. Release is trying to make sense of the debacle, and Artanis is overexaggerating, blaming him for "perpetrating" this "bullshit", while making no effort to either figure out the YKZ / bunnies thing himself, nor make clear how Release is scum for it. Just vague handwaving and avoiding the biggest discussion topic at the time. Artanis is unnatural, Artanis is apathetic, Artanis is scum. ##Vote Artanis[Xp] I think this post makes slOosh scum. DETAILS AT ELEVEN!!! Really? Because he has been the one asking clarifying questions, obviously with a purpose behind them. That fits townie agenda of forwarding the game in my book. Currently, I feel confident in SloOsh and Lazer as town for candid presentation of information and quetions. I feel that 27nb is town but to a lesser extent. I feel confident in YKZ as mafia.
I have 100% corrected you and you did not respond to me at all. You had two main points in your first post. 1. Bunnies connection with YKZ's VT claim. 2. "limited information".
I questioned you about the VT claim and even after going back to check yourself you still reported false information. Then i said you were still wrong and you still have not responding. You are not even following your own guidelines to not look like scum.
Also this "limited information" this has a detail we all missed. I have never read anywhere in the rules where you have to read your role pm before starting play. Obviously u should (have to?) before day one ends. So we all had "equal info" unless we assume someone has read his role pm. It seems like a weird tactic but i still believe this "limited information" thing has very little value.
So one of the two things your first post was based on was just wrong and you still did not correct it. The other thing has very little value in my opinion.
I am leaning pretty hard to vote for you. Especially when two people have posted how your post had such a great timing.
Also i would really like to hear from oats and hear more for the world cup watcher.
Also Chezinu's encryption is a hassle.
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On June 17 2014 00:13 Snickers wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 17:12 Release wrote:On June 16 2014 12:26 Snickers wrote:
So far I am leaning towards 27nb as scum. Although i said the kenpachi rule is useless, now that i understand it better, it does have some merit. It seems like for a scum to claim VT first day would be a tactic that would be stupidly selfish, since it would most likely hurt the whole scum team. It seems like a tactic only a bad scum team would use. (But how would a scum team know it had a disadvantage. Maybe with poor roles? Maybe by meta? I do not think a scum team would plan to use the kenpachi rule to their favor.) 27nb has not really commented on the kenpachi rule and is just dismissing it.
Also i am not voting for her yet.
Only eight out of the twelve players have posted so far, so it seems too early.
My reads for other players so far.
Artanis, sloosh and Ve have not said much so no read.
goodkarma seems to be playing standard. Nothing really sticking out at me for now. Maybe I will reread his posts.
Chezinu has a high ratio of text to information. Seems weird but it only the first day. I do not think this information is sufficient enough to even mention the s word.
YKZ seems to be a very knowledgeable player.
It seems for a stupid tactic for two scum to call each other out day 1. It seems like something that would be a risk that would be hard to get payed back on. Am i right about this? Another reason i am leaning towards 27nb, is if she is shown as scum, YKZ would then almost be proven as a town player and we would have a knowledgeable town player and only two more scum to hunt. Hopefully we could then protect him. I would not like to lynch someone with one of my two points being. "If we lynch her and shes a scum it will help a lot" because she still has a fair chance of not being scum. Also time is really precious for town so voting for such a long shot reason would show that town has bad chances after day one.
Please comment on my thoughts First bold is incorrect. YKZ has been acted stubbornly incorrectly and has misrepresented information in a manner that implies that he is correct and 27nb is wrong (whereas the opposite is true). So you essentially have no reads? I doubt anyone has any solid reads except for/against 27nb and YKZ. Weird to include an entire paragraph about null. The above implies bad/useless town but the next paragraph changes my read completely (as it did for 27nb). Second bold: You would prefer that YKZ be town and therefore believe that 27nb is scum? The roles have already been determined. That is a complete lack of reasoning for wanting a lynch but still being swayed? That reeks of scum trying to jump on the bandwagon. On June 16 2014 12:32 Snickers wrote:On June 16 2014 12:14 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 12:12 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 12:03 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 11:59 slOosh wrote:
What is this "limited information" that you guys are getting at? On June 16 2014 09:37 YouKnowZhou wrote:
I'm a vt.
I'm not really replying to 27ninjabunnies for making a bad judgement call about any of the lynches. That would be unfair since he has limited information. I will be just trying to clarify some things so you, and everyone else here, could get a better impression about me. Of course, you would have to trust me on that.
What I'm trying to say is, YKZ good, lynching YKZ bad, mmkay? What's truly amazing here is what an awesome example this is for Kenpachi Rule Extended. Even after I call it you're still doing it. Assuming you do in fact flip scum I'll have to write a post game analysis just on the first few pages of this game. Maybe I could tie it in with a general Kenpachi and Kenpachi Rule Extended / Zephirdd Rule tutorial. I'm getting more excited by the minute! BH I thought you were some amazing mafia player? Obviously not because YOU ARE WRONG ON ME! And I'll disprove your kenpachi rule by the end of the game. See the statement is suspicious to me "i'll disprove your kenpachi rule by the end of the game." why the end of the game. It could easily be prove "wrong" the first night. "wrong" as in if your lynched and shown as town. Or if YKZ is lynched and showed scum.I am just trying to show where I think 27nb is thinking in a strange way. Maybe she just thinks that way normally. I do not think the kenpachi rule can be proven wrong. I think it can be proven to not be 100% right though. I think saying it is wrong is stating it has no merit at all. I already explained why i thought a scum could potentially claim VT day one to attempt for an advantage. Also sloosh thanks for posting. I think this kenpachi rule should still be discussed a little more, but I see where you think we should stop the seeming rigmarole. That is a strange statement because asking for town to die to prove something is ridiculous, and is against our goal to kill mafia. However, the second part is correct. Why would you include the first part in this statement? Reeks of mafia. Also quick note on Scientific Method: Nothing can be proven correct, but 1 counterexample demonstrates a need to change the hypothesis. And from 27nb's perspective, I take a neutral stance on what she said. By the end of the game sounds like she was saying that she would be revealed as town when the game conclude, assuming that she would survive the entire game. As opposed to end of the day by getting a lynch of YKZ, but, at that point, not many people had taken a stance on the situation. It's passive but focussed on moving the game forward (as opposed to YKZ's comments which were designed to draw attention to himself and his survival). -----------------------Line for separation-------------------------- On June 16 2014 13:49 Snickers wrote:
Good post release, I wanted to comment on some of your points.
1.I think it should be stated that 27nb mentioned VT in a post before her vote post.
2.Also this "limited information" we all have different levels of information. This is a semi open game so we know what roles are possible but not the quantity. I am assuming that we all could be goons and VT? but even if we were not, information is simply not on the level of scum or town. A PR has more information that a VT because he knows his respective role exists in the game. So i think generally information goes scum>PR>Vt.
Also this "limited information" does not seem like a slip. 27nb was just trying to get the game going and I think two of the people she mentioned did not post. Even now three people have not posted so I would say we all have limited information. On day 1, information :: Mafia > Town.
3.Your point on YKZ claiming he only slips as mafia while playing town. I think this is 10000x more worthy than the "limited information" post. Is YKZ's slip the "limited information" post? I still think this point is very important even though I do not think YKZ slipped with the kenpachi rule or the "limited information"
4. I do not think talk about blue would lead to mafia finding out the blue players. Although it seems bad to claim blue players day one right? If I was scum and said I was vigilante and there was actually someone vigilante, they would shoot me the first night. If I was VT and claimed vigilante, it would help lead scum to target a "less worthy player". But the risk seems to high for that tactic to be valuable. Also i used "less worthy player" because a smart VT would obviously be more worthy than an unintelligent vigilante that shot a PR.
5. Also that speculate post was really ambiguous and I think i may have caused that. I was not speculating that YKZ was a blue. I was trying to show a possibility that was being overlooked by a player. Then 27nb said "I wouldnt speculate" well is she telling me not to speculate or saying she would not personally speculate.
@1: That was a question, separate from her vote. @2: I'm pretty sure we don't use roles on "night 0." (check the Godfather role on the OP) @3: Not too sure what you're asking but I can clarify: "Limited information" indicates scum because on Day 1, no one has any information except for the mafia, so assuming that YKZ is town, he should have less than or equal information to everyone else. Clearly, "limited information" implies that he has more and therefore cannot be town. next point: The Kenpachi rule does not apply but he insisted repeatedly and incorrectly that it did apply, causing chaos in town and trying to lead a mislynch. @4: That sounds really scummy. On day 1, blues have no information more than town so we need to keep them alive. Talking about blues can only increase that chance that mafia corrects identifies blue so talking about blue on day 1 favors mafia. @5: "You wouldnt speculate bcuz you think i am scum. Unless of cours u kno i am not scum. So I caught u in scum slip." this is incorrect. 27nb who thinks YKZ is scum does not speculate whether YKZ is blue because 27nb believes that YKZ is red. YKZ presents information as though 27nb is speculating which is the complete opposite of what is actually happening. Read the second part closely. Speculation only occurs if town is the hypothesis, which is not the case, so again, YKZ makes an incorrect statement and misleads us. 27nb's statement is not a scum slip by any stretch of the imagination. See below: On June 16 2014 11:09 27ninjabunnies wrote:
Snickers, you need to work a bit on your quoting, but not bad.
Just hit quote in the upper right corner of the post. It works better!
Also, pr means power role, so yes means same as blue.
I think coming out like that puts yourself in the spotlight.
i wouldnt speculate whether or not he is blue right now. On June 16 2014 11:22 27ninjabunnies wrote:
OMG Bh<3
WTG buddy!
hahaha. im laughing my ass off right now.
So what I'm saying here is that I think you are scum, and I'm not removing my vote from you..
But in the offchance you are town- which I don't believe one bit- town shouldnt speculate this early in the game whether or not a person is blue or just vt. That gives tooooo much information for mafia. That's what I was saying in sayng we shouldnt speculate whether or not you are blue.
That was definitely not a slip, so stop trying to grasp at straws because I caught you d1. Overall, this sounds like a soft defense of YKZ, and such a defense is untenable.\ + Show Spoiler +and with that I am off to bed So i do not think you guys should pick a statement and bold it when right after that statement i said why it would be terrible to do that. I was not asking for 27nb to die, I was saying it was strange for her to act super confident and not mention how she could prove him wrong less than 48 hours than now. 1.In my above post i showed where it was linked to her vote post. Also Her first post about VT was a question. The second one was not. It was then linked to the Vote Post. 2.and 3. Last time I am explaining this unless someone one new to the thread does not understand this. "no one has any information except for the mafia," Since this is a semi open game the knowledge of a PR and a VT is different. Pr knows that his respective role exists. Also we all have information through the posts. 4.So this actually makes sense why talking about blue would be bad day one. (Same logic applies for why we try to get scrum to speak on day one). But i do not think what i said was scummy. I think you said I was scummy then put a true statement after it to try and fool somebody. 5. I still do not understand this speculation idea. I do not think you understand me and are twisting my words a lot to hurt me. You also seem to be twisting 27nb's words a lot to protect her. You seemed to have missed the part where she mentions VT without the question mark.
you never responded to this post.
Also you seem to not understand the fact that pr have more info than VT.
Also you keep highlighting the same thing i did but have you read what i wrote right after that.
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On June 17 2014 12:12 Release wrote:
As I have said more than once now about the VT claim:
Yes she mentions it in post above her vote. Yes she says "another."
However, the fact that the sentences after that and the vote form a coherent independent sequence of events strongly suggests to me that the primary reason (and ultimately only relevant reason, otherwise we all would have seen a vote in the first post questioning the VT claim) was the "limited information." Therefore, I have reviewed my actions and statements (more than once now) and they are correct.
Yes, we have roles but if you read the OP closely, the Mafia Godfather sends his role on N1 or Night 1 which is after today. We have no reason to believe that any other role acts before Night 1. Therefore, no roles have any more information than anyone else except the mafia, who know exactly who is town, and who is mafia. AND, if you have been following closely, "limited information" was an intentional "scumslip" to solicit the use of the Kenpachi rule. However, my reasoning for the YKZ lynch is not for the utterance of "limited information" but for the actions that YKZ took afterwards.
I am not wrong. However, this is the second (or more?) time that you have claimed that I am wrong, and I have had to repeat myself (which of course will cause Artanis to give his mandatory "omg release stop rehashing" speech).
And in the bolded section (3 posts before this), the connection is not as glaring as the fact that you say "Another reason i am leaning towards 27nb, is if she is shown as scum, YKZ would then almost be proven as a town player and we would have a knowledgeable town player and only two more scum to hunt. " which does not make sense at all. (Again) wanting someone (YKZ) as town does not make the other player (27bn) mafia, but you say that regardless which is ridiculous.
This last paragraph is a great example of you twisting my words. "which does not make sense at all" i was showing another reason i was leaning towards her. It does make sense. I was not stating i wanted YKZ as town so 27nb is mafia. I was saying another reason why i would prefer to vote 27nb. I was showing a possible outcome that could be a great advantage. But i follow it up by saying it was a long shot. It would be an icing on the cake outcome.
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On June 17 2014 12:44 Release wrote:
Not on day 1 and there is no point in talking about it on day 1.
I read it and it does not excuse illogical play. Regardless of 0/1/2 of 2 scum, you wish does not affect their roles. You soft retract your statement by saying it's a bad reason, but why say it in the first place if that is the case?
ok start quoting because i have no clue what "it" is.
It is a bad reason why? because we had such little information at the time. I was providing the most detail i could of why i thought 27nb was scum. It was a "long shot" but it still gave me another reason to.
I do not understand two thirds of your above post.
Why would I not say a bad reason. By bad reason i meant the game was probably going to end up with a lot better reasons for a scum. I am voting you know. I already showed multiple reasons why.
##Vote Release
And admit that you are wrong about information. PR has more information than VT. This is a semi open game. PR know if his role exists. VT does not know if any or what PR exists. PR does not know if even one VT exists?(Do not know if this is 100% right because i am new) VT knows at least one VT exists.
Both said VT and PR know there is three mafia.
Knowing there is a pr is more info than knowing there is a VT.
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Sorry i think i voted wrong (Does not look bolded to me)
##Vote Release
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On June 17 2014 13:05 Release wrote:
If you read the original situation in which the information is said, the information relates to 27nb calling out 3 purported mafia and YKZ saying she has less information. It pertains to knowing who and who isn't mafia, and in this case, VT and PR are equally informed (since it is day 1). Knowing there is a pr does not in any way help call out 3 mafia. Therefore it is the same and we should stop talking about PRs.
limited does not equal less.
Also you do have a point with at the very start of the game PR and VT have the same chance of randomly guessing mafia.
But even on day one it could matter. If u were a cop and somebody claimed cop... for example.
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I think i have been posting a lot.
I am also surprised you chose to vote YKZ rather than Release. Your two posts prior to your vote posts were leaning towards him. Is it normal in mafia games for the votes to be spread like this?
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On June 17 2014 09:11 mderg wrote:I almost forgot about this due to the world cup  The whole thing with YKZ and bunnies is really strange. It feels like they´re both wrong, bunnies more so thab YKZ, though. I don´t think bunnies case was well substantiated at all, scumslips just almost never happen in forum mafia. I also don´t think the Kenpachi rule is as foolproof as YKZ said. It has some solid reasoning behind it but claiming that it always works seems stupid. They´ve kinda been repeating themselves quite often, so there´s not that much to get from this. I think YKZ is town because of the follow up on bunnies Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 12:30 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 12:16 slOosh wrote:
Alright, let's cut it out with the "Kenpachi Rule" and associated nomenclature. It isn't immediately clear to everyone and is muddling up the discussion.
Let's get this straight.
Bunnies, you think YKZ is scum because of the phrase "limited information"? His post paraphrased as "I'm not listening to you because you are town"?
YKZ, you think bunnies is scum for her initial call out of your post "I'm vt"?
Please try to be a bit more clear with your posts please. Look at all the scummy stuff I've posted since my original post. Any real townie would be all over me for things like "I'm allowed to lie" and my blanatant lying etc but all YKZ is on is my OG post because he is scum. Any real townie would be all up on dis, think about it I don´t think scum would so blatantly say that he acted scummy and someone should have pointed it out. This feels like a trap made by town. He´s also claimed vt early on which I find weird but unlikely to be scum play. So I think out of bunnies and YKZ only bunnies can really be scum. It certainly is possible. Especially the heavy focus on YKZ´s "scumslip" seems suspicious. Not calling out YKZ´s scummy posts is not really alignment indicative. Not immediately noticing things that might look scummy to some can happen as both alignments. I also dislike how she agrees with Artanis that Release is scummy but doesn´t think he´s scum because she wants to be right about YKZ and her association read. Show nested quote +On June 17 2014 01:45 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 22:45 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 22:11 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I kinda like this vote. And I kinda like Artanis' face. Release sounds a lot like he's trying to justify feeling the way he does rather than explaining honestly WHY he feels the way he does. Does anyone else think so? I agree Release is looking scummy, but I wouldn't use that exact wording. He seems heavily invested in his case, but is only leaning towards ninja's side of this debate. These two statements especially didn't sit right with me from Release's post on 21:10 15 June 2014: "As the situation between 27bunnies and YKZ currently stands, I am leaning on the side of 27bunnies." And yet he ends this same post: "I think 27bunnie has the right idea, but has not manifested clearly (or in enough detail) what needs to be said to properly incriminate YKZ." Release doesn't seem that interested in what may develop from YKZ. He already has the verdict in mind... This is a HUGE inconsistency from how he starts his post. You have a point here I really like. Which makes me wonder if scum defending a town here. He's not even considering in what YKZ could or could not do. But then if that's the case, and Release is scum, then YKZ is town, and I don't like that. I really really want to be right that YKZ is scum. It also feels like townreading Artanis is some kind of "You´re scumreading me, so I´ll townread you". I think Snickers has been posting strangely. As if he wanted to play the newbie card without stating that he´s new. His general thought process doesn´t show a scum mindset, though. I didn´t really like where he talked about associations between bunnies and VKZ. IMO pre-flip associations are bad most of the time. Release had a not so perfect entrance to this thread. At first glance his case on YKZ seemed good but it basically comes down to the few points bunnies has made on YKZ and that he stuck to the Kenpachi rule for so long. That´s not very much considering the length of his posts. What kinda speaks in his favor is how suddenly several people jumped on him after Artanis made his case on him. Still kinda neutral on him, maybe a bit scummy. I´m having a townread on sloosh right now. Mainly because his posting feels different from Detention where we were scum together. He´s asking questions and seems to be trying to get behind the reasons from the others. I think Artanis´case on Release made sense but slooshs case on him also made sense even though it´s not that strong. The fact that he almost completely ignored the back and forth between YKZ and bunnies is slightly suspicious. But it´s true that the back and forth was repetitive and I don´t think there was anything that´s really scummy in it. I agree with his reason for scumreading bunnies, it´s something I´m also sumreading her for. Slight townread on him. Not much on the others, yet. I´ll hopefully post more tomorrow. ##vote 27ninjabunnies
gk what is your read on mderg?
I think its weird how he has only posted one thing. He sorta offers an excuse for that. The thing i find most weird is "I'll hopefully post more tomorrow". ..... I do not think somebody that is town would say hopefully i will post more after posting one post.
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On June 17 2014 09:11 mderg wrote:I almost forgot about this due to the world cup The whole thing with YKZ and bunnies is really strange. It feels like they´re both wrong, bunnies more so thab YKZ, though. I don´t think bunnies case was well substantiated at all, scumslips just almost never happen in forum mafia. I also don´t think the Kenpachi rule is as foolproof as YKZ said. It has some solid reasoning behind it but claiming that it always works seems stupid. They´ve kinda been repeating themselves quite often, so there´s not that much to get from this. I think YKZ is town because of the follow up on bunnies Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 12:30 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 12:16 slOosh wrote:
Alright, let's cut it out with the "Kenpachi Rule" and associated nomenclature. It isn't immediately clear to everyone and is muddling up the discussion.
Let's get this straight.
Bunnies, you think YKZ is scum because of the phrase "limited information"? His post paraphrased as "I'm not listening to you because you are town"?
YKZ, you think bunnies is scum for her initial call out of your post "I'm vt"?
Please try to be a bit more clear with your posts please. Look at all the scummy stuff I've posted since my original post. Any real townie would be all over me for things like "I'm allowed to lie" and my blanatant lying etc but all YKZ is on is my OG post because he is scum. Any real townie would be all up on dis, think about it I don´t think scum would so blatantly say that he acted scummy and someone should have pointed it out. This feels like a trap made by town. He´s also claimed vt early on which I find weird but unlikely to be scum play. So I think out of bunnies and YKZ only bunnies can really be scum. It certainly is possible. Especially the heavy focus on YKZ´s "scumslip" seems suspicious. Not calling out YKZ´s scummy posts is not really alignment indicative. Not immediately noticing things that might look scummy to some can happen as both alignments. I also dislike how she agrees with Artanis that Release is scummy but doesn´t think he´s scum because she wants to be right about YKZ and her association read. Show nested quote +On June 17 2014 01:45 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 22:45 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 22:11 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I kinda like this vote. And I kinda like Artanis' face. Release sounds a lot like he's trying to justify feeling the way he does rather than explaining honestly WHY he feels the way he does. Does anyone else think so? I agree Release is looking scummy, but I wouldn't use that exact wording. He seems heavily invested in his case, but is only leaning towards ninja's side of this debate. These two statements especially didn't sit right with me from Release's post on 21:10 15 June 2014: "As the situation between 27bunnies and YKZ currently stands, I am leaning on the side of 27bunnies." And yet he ends this same post: "I think 27bunnie has the right idea, but has not manifested clearly (or in enough detail) what needs to be said to properly incriminate YKZ." Release doesn't seem that interested in what may develop from YKZ. He already has the verdict in mind... This is a HUGE inconsistency from how he starts his post. You have a point here I really like. Which makes me wonder if scum defending a town here. He's not even considering in what YKZ could or could not do. But then if that's the case, and Release is scum, then YKZ is town, and I don't like that. I really really want to be right that YKZ is scum. It also feels like townreading Artanis is some kind of "You´re scumreading me, so I´ll townread you". I think Snickers has been posting strangely. As if he wanted to play the newbie card without stating that he´s new. His general thought process doesn´t show a scum mindset, though. I didn´t really like where he talked about associations between bunnies and VKZ. IMO pre-flip associations are bad most of the time. Release had a not so perfect entrance to this thread. At first glance his case on YKZ seemed good but it basically comes down to the few points bunnies has made on YKZ and that he stuck to the Kenpachi rule for so long. That´s not very much considering the length of his posts. What kinda speaks in his favor is how suddenly several people jumped on him after Artanis made his case on him. Still kinda neutral on him, maybe a bit scummy.I´m having a townread on sloosh right now. Mainly because his posting feels different from Detention where we were scum together. He´s asking questions and seems to be trying to get behind the reasons from the others. I think Artanis´case on Release made sense but slooshs case on him also made sense even though it´s not that strong. The fact that he almost completely ignored the back and forth between YKZ and bunnies is slightly suspicious. But it´s true that the back and forth was repetitive and I don´t think there was anything that´s really scummy in it. I agree with his reason for scumreading bunnies, it´s something I´m also sumreading her for. Slight townread on him. Not much on the others, yet. I´ll hopefully post more tomorrow.##vote 27ninjabunnies
Hey mderg can you explain the reasoning of the bold text.
I think you made a terrible excuse for not posting more on day one. You are back and forth on release. Also you say you hopefully will post more tomorrow. You also throw in a vote first post. Also I am pretty sure you were hoping no one would comment and you could just lurk until the lynch. Your vote would of been your saving grace for not having to speak today.
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On June 17 2014 09:11 mderg wrote:I almost forgot about this due to the world cup The whole thing with YKZ and bunnies is really strange. It feels like they´re both wrong, bunnies more so thab YKZ, though. I don´t think bunnies case was well substantiated at all, scumslips just almost never happen in forum mafia. I also don´t think the Kenpachi rule is as foolproof as YKZ said. It has some solid reasoning behind it but claiming that it always works seems stupid. They´ve kinda been repeating themselves quite often, so there´s not that much to get from this. I think YKZ is town because of the follow up on bunnies Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 12:30 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 12:16 slOosh wrote:
Alright, let's cut it out with the "Kenpachi Rule" and associated nomenclature. It isn't immediately clear to everyone and is muddling up the discussion.
Let's get this straight.
Bunnies, you think YKZ is scum because of the phrase "limited information"? His post paraphrased as "I'm not listening to you because you are town"?
YKZ, you think bunnies is scum for her initial call out of your post "I'm vt"?
Please try to be a bit more clear with your posts please. Look at all the scummy stuff I've posted since my original post. Any real townie would be all over me for things like "I'm allowed to lie" and my blanatant lying etc but all YKZ is on is my OG post because he is scum. Any real townie would be all up on dis, think about it I don´t think scum would so blatantly say that he acted scummy and someone should have pointed it out. This feels like a trap made by town. He´s also claimed vt early on which I find weird but unlikely to be scum play. So I think out of bunnies and YKZ only bunnies can really be scum. It certainly is possible. Especially the heavy focus on YKZ´s "scumslip" seems suspicious. Not calling out YKZ´s scummy posts is not really alignment indicative. Not immediately noticing things that might look scummy to some can happen as both alignments. I also dislike how she agrees with Artanis that Release is scummy but doesn´t think he´s scum because she wants to be right about YKZ and her association read. Show nested quote +On June 17 2014 01:45 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 22:45 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 22:11 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I kinda like this vote. And I kinda like Artanis' face. Release sounds a lot like he's trying to justify feeling the way he does rather than explaining honestly WHY he feels the way he does. Does anyone else think so? I agree Release is looking scummy, but I wouldn't use that exact wording. He seems heavily invested in his case, but is only leaning towards ninja's side of this debate. These two statements especially didn't sit right with me from Release's post on 21:10 15 June 2014: " As the situation between 27bunnies and YKZ currently stands, I am leaning on the side of 27bunnies."
And yet he ends this same post: "I think 27bunnie has the right idea, but has not manifested clearly (or in enough detail) what needs to be said to properly incriminate YKZ." Release doesn't seem that interested in what may develop from YKZ. He already has the verdict in mind... This is a HUGE inconsistency from how he starts his post. You have a point here I really like. Which makes me wonder if scum defending a town here. He's not even considering in what YKZ could or could not do. But then if that's the case, and Release is scum, then YKZ is town, and I don't like that. I really really want to be right that YKZ is scum. It also feels like townreading Artanis is some kind of "You´re scumreading me, so I´ll townread you". I think Snickers has been posting strangely. As if he wanted to play the newbie card without stating that he´s new. His general thought process doesn´t show a scum mindset, though. I didn´t really like where he talked about associations between bunnies and VKZ. IMO pre-flip associations are bad most of the time. Release had a not so perfect entrance to this thread. At first glance his case on YKZ seemed good but it basically comes down to the few points bunnies has made on YKZ and that he stuck to the Kenpachi rule for so long. That´s not very much considering the length of his posts. What kinda speaks in his favor is how suddenly several people jumped on him after Artanis made his case on him. Still kinda neutral on him, maybe a bit scummy. I´m having a townread on sloosh right now. Mainly because his posting feels different from Detention where we were scum together. He´s asking questions and seems to be trying to get behind the reasons from the others. I think Artanis´case on Release made sense but slooshs case on him also made sense even though it´s not that strong. The fact that he almost completely ignored the back and forth between YKZ and bunnies is slightly suspicious. But it´s true that the back and forth was repetitive and I don´t think there was anything that´s really scummy in it. I agree with his reason for scumreading bunnies, it´s something I´m also sumreading her for. Slight townread on him. Not much on the others, yet. I´ll hopefully post more tomorrow.##vote 27ninjabunnies
Yea it seems really strange that you are only leaning towards somebody and you vote for them. Saying that you are not 100% sure you will return to the game to reevaluate the situation. It would be terrible for a town to vote for someone with only about half the information we have. Then say he may not change it until the lynch. So you were leaning towards bunnies but felt she was scum enough that if you did not make it to a computer she could be lynched because of this vote.
##Unvote
##Vote mderg
I still think Release is scum but I am more confident that mderg is at this time. Also we have to consolidate our posts and i think it would be easier for people to see this slip. Also more people on mderg atm than release.
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On June 18 2014 04:24 Lazermonkey wrote:Mderg is just... Look through this part of his first post for example. Show nested quote +On June 17 2014 09:11 mderg wrote:SNIP The whole thing with YKZ and bunnies is really strange. It feels like they´re both wrong, bunnies more so thab YKZ, though. I don´t think bunnies case was well substantiated at all, scumslips just almost never happen in forum mafia. I also don´t think the Kenpachi rule is as foolproof as YKZ said. It has some solid reasoning behind it but claiming that it always works seems stupid. They´ve kinda been repeating themselves quite often, so there´s not that much to get from this. I think YKZ is town because of the follow up on bunnies On June 16 2014 12:30 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 12:16 slOosh wrote:
Alright, let's cut it out with the "Kenpachi Rule" and associated nomenclature. It isn't immediately clear to everyone and is muddling up the discussion.
Let's get this straight.
Bunnies, you think YKZ is scum because of the phrase "limited information"? His post paraphrased as "I'm not listening to you because you are town"?
YKZ, you think bunnies is scum for her initial call out of your post "I'm vt"?
Please try to be a bit more clear with your posts please. Look at all the scummy stuff I've posted since my original post. Any real townie would be all over me for things like "I'm allowed to lie" and my blanatant lying etc but all YKZ is on is my OG post because he is scum. Any real townie would be all up on dis, think about it I don´t think scum would so blatantly say that he acted scummy and someone should have pointed it out. This feels like a trap made by town. He´s also claimed vt early on which I find weird but unlikely to be scum play. So I think out of bunnies and YKZ only bunnies can really be scum. It certainly is possible. Especially the heavy focus on YKZ´s "scumslip" seems suspicious. Not calling out YKZ´s scummy posts is not really alignment indicative. Not immediately noticing things that might look scummy to some can happen as both alignments. I also dislike how she agrees with Artanis that Release is scummy but doesn´t think he´s scum because she wants to be right about YKZ and her association read. On June 17 2014 01:45 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 22:45 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 22:11 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I kinda like this vote. And I kinda like Artanis' face. Release sounds a lot like he's trying to justify feeling the way he does rather than explaining honestly WHY he feels the way he does. Does anyone else think so? I agree Release is looking scummy, but I wouldn't use that exact wording. He seems heavily invested in his case, but is only leaning towards ninja's side of this debate. These two statements especially didn't sit right with me from Release's post on 21:10 15 June 2014: "As the situation between 27bunnies and YKZ currently stands, I am leaning on the side of 27bunnies." And yet he ends this same post: "I think 27bunnie has the right idea, but has not manifested clearly (or in enough detail) what needs to be said to properly incriminate YKZ." Release doesn't seem that interested in what may develop from YKZ. He already has the verdict in mind... This is a HUGE inconsistency from how he starts his post. You have a point here I really like. Which makes me wonder if scum defending a town here. He's not even considering in what YKZ could or could not do. But then if that's the case, and Release is scum, then YKZ is town, and I don't like that. I really really want to be right that YKZ is scum. SNIP ##vote 27ninjabunnies So his logic is something like this: 1. Since YKZ are battling each other they cannot both be scum. 2. And YKZ is probably town (for some really wierd reasoning). 3. Its possible that Bunnies is scum, points out several stuff that Bunnies that is alignment unindicative. 4. Dislikes that Bunnies says that Release is scummy but doesn't want him to be scum. This is like the only part that makes sense. Then he proceeds to vote him. This vote is so out of place that I cannot even describe it with words. Pointing out several things that he even himself says isn't alignment indicative is just unnecessary. Yes, he said he disliked one of Bunnies posts. But he also said that he disliked Snickers and Release posting. Why vote Bunnies? Because it was the current wagon? This shit just seem to careless to be scum. You don't see scum posting posts liek this because that's all scum care about, looking good. I'm calling bad town here.##Unvote
Acting like a bad town makes me think he is scum. The people that are town need to start stepping up to be good towns. Is it difficult to be a good town? Also if his vote is so out of place..... that would also make me think he is scum. If you are a town player not playing well.... you are helping scum more than town. This is true because you are just tossing confusion in the thread(Right?).Helping scum more than town shows scum.
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I will most likely not be able to post again until the lynch happens. Will be in a class.
Ykz if u want to see my case on mderg look at the second page of my filter.
Many of you say I made an association between ykz and bunnies. I still do not see this. I have already explained why.
Also I never said bad play equals scum. I said it hints towards it.
Somebody said 27nb had posted the most. I am preatty sure I have . Less posts more info packed.
I will maybe be able to switch my vote before the lynch. I will only switch it if it will make a difference. Also most likely will only switch to release. I will not have time to post info or read all the info in the next two hours. ( I assume a lot will be posted)
Also thought it should be noted that I can't believe ykz and 27nb are both being evaluated this much. I haven't seen either post something that could be very scummy since their first posts. I think others have been saying prty scummy things since. For example I cannot believe no one (maybe one person) saw the weirdness in mdergs first post. I think his reply to me is very weak. He was slightly leaning bunnies, not heavily like he is saying now.
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Not changing my vote because I do not think 27nb is scum. No where else to consolidate. I think scum have won day one . 27nb ratio of supposed scuminess to actual scuminnes seems high. I think mafia are playing us very hard here . Maybe we will know for sure in 30 min(assuming 27 nb is lynched).
I really find it weird how she is still bringing up my association of players.
If she is shown mafia. My long shot preferable outcome is what we will all agree on. It seems that way. I think ykz is either really emotional or scum fooling town so well over multiple layers of thought
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On June 18 2014 08:54 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Mderg is a terrible lynch. Why does anyone want to lynch him? Show nested quote +On June 18 2014 06:58 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Okay, I don't want to lynch mderg. I actually get quite a townie feel from his filter. He commented on all relevant things, expanded on the things he found strange and explained his scumread on ninjabunnies quite well. The way he's constructed his post makes sense to me and the townread for the sake of it resonates with my feeling of her townread on me being shaky ground. I also like how he disagreed with Lazer's defense. I think scum would be more likely to take all the help they can get when they're possibly on the stake. Mderg didn't do that.
I don't want to lynch mderg today.
look at my 2nd page filter. I explained why he should be lynched.
I feel like very few people actually read the whole thread....
and to koshi I would not worry about that now everyone is saying one thing while i was saying they were twisting my idea.
And someone mentioned vigilante killing me. first off only one person "maybe" is the vigilante. I highly doubt vigilante would go for me. No one has actually made a case for me. No one even voted for me at any moment. People have literally only wrote small paragraphs mentioning what they overall thought my alignment was.
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You are an idiot or scum if you can't "see" the scum in mderg's first post. First off saying there is a chance you are only going to contribute one post to day one. This shows his terrible interest in this game. Then he tries to say he votes to prevent mod kill. Id rather him be modkilled than him help lynch someone because he felt a slight scum. You guys must have played so many games of mafia you cannot think logically. You have these rules that you hold so highly. Even if these rules were true you guys cannot even use them right. So assuming they are true they still are no use. And somebody mentioned something about release. If you can't see the scum in his post there is a problem or you are scum.
I cannot believe no one mentioned this aspect of this game. 27nb had the same principles in her posts from the start. Confused, emotional, silly. So has ykz. Cocky , deceiving, focused. We know 27nb was town. If ykz is mafia he is very good at it. Even after the proof that he was wrong or was lying. He perfectly continues his principals after the lynch. Release on the other hand had been inconsistent with his principals. He seems aggressive than passive.
Reactionary than static. I think it should be looked into. I won't be able to post or read until six hours from now. I will look at be (whoever name keeps getting mentioned).
Also koshi seems to be obsessed with me. I am thinking him as third mafia.
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And yea I do know most of my shit. I may not know terms but I still knew lylo was a phase at the end of the game. Also look at this. Release said talking about pros was bad. I said I did not see it. Then agreed because talking about pr is the same way we try to find scum. It is logical. I still think he is wrong tho cause I never said 27nb is vigilante. I was talking about prs in general not specific to a person.
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On June 19 2014 05:00 mderg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2014 04:51 Snickers wrote:
You are an idiot or scum if you can't "see" the scum in mderg's first post. First off saying there is a chance you are only going to contribute one post to day one. This shows his terrible interest in this game. Then he tries to say he votes to prevent mod kill. Id rather him be modkilled than him help lynch someone because he felt a slight scum. You guys must have played so many games of mafia you cannot think logically. You have these rules that you hold so highly. Even if these rules were true you guys cannot even use them right. So assuming they are true they still are no use. And somebody mentioned something about release. If you can't see the scum in his post there is a problem or you are scum.
I cannot believe no one mentioned this aspect of this game. 27nb had the same principles in her posts from the start. Confused, emotional, silly. So has ykz. Cocky , deceiving, focused. We know 27nb was town. If ykz is mafia he is very good at it. Even after the proof that he was wrong or was lying. He perfectly continues his principals after the lynch. Release on the other hand had been inconsistent with his principals. He seems aggressive than passive.
Reactionary than static. I think it should be looked into. I won't be able to post or read until six hours from now. I will look at be (whoever name keeps getting mentioned).
Also koshi seems to be obsessed with me. I am thinking him as third mafia. The bolded is completely wrong, reread please. I also never intended to say that the one post could be my only contribution day 1. I wasn´t sure how much time I´d have the rest of the day but I knew that I could devote some time to this gam]e.
1st bold. weird how you say completely wrong. I could see how it could be partially wrong.
2nd bold. You never intended to say. What you said was ambiguous. You actually did not say it. This looks scum to me how about you mderg? Let me hear how it does not.
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On June 19 2014 05:02 Lazermonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2014 04:51 Snickers wrote:
You are an idiot or scum if you can't "see" the scum in mderg's first post. First off saying there is a chance you are only going to contribute one post to day one. This shows his terrible interest in this game. Then he tries to say he votes to prevent mod kill. Id rather him be modkilled than him help lynch someone because he felt a slight scum. You guys must have played so many games of mafia you cannot think logically. I used to think like you. then a took a massive amounts of misslynches to my knee. Truth of the matter is as simple as bad play=/=scum play. You can point out a billion things that are bad for town. But unless you display how that play is a good play for scum, the play is not alignment indicative. A super easy example is lurking. Lurking is obviously bad for town. But a scum that lurks is also very likely to get noticed because of his lown number of posts. Thus its impossible to tell that someone is scum just by looking at their number of posts. Show nested quote +On June 19 2014 04:51 Snickers wrote:I cannot believe no one mentioned this aspect of this game. 27nb had the same principles in her posts from the start. Confused, emotional, silly. So has ykz. Cocky , deceiving, focused. We know 27nb was town. If ykz is mafia he is very good at it. Even after the proof that he was wrong or was lying. He perfectly continues his principals after the lynch. Release on the other hand had been inconsistent with his principals. He seems aggressive than passive.
Reactionary than static. I think it should be looked into. I won't be able to post or read until six hours from now. I will look at be (whoever name keeps getting mentioned). I still don't see it. Why is breaking against your principles a scum trait? If anyting, I'd say it displays a town mindset by being willing to change your standpoint and not being afraid of it.
already explained i was not saying that. We may have different definitions of bad play. I understand your point a lot better now though. (you may be right)
standpoint and principles. Principles are acting like yourself. When town or mafia you will act like yourself. But when pressured as scum i think town would still post the same while mafia will start to post differently. Your principles could change but standpoint be the same. Look at chezinu for an example of a principle. His first to not be in riddle was where he mentioned vigilante killing me (the first that i remember) he broke a principle in that he was not using riddles anymore. An example of standpoint changing while principles remaining. 27nb stayed with her same posting manner. Even after she switched her vote from YKZ to mderg.
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And above this post is release's beautiful post where he now goes from continuing ykz and 27nb's argument which led to people making so much scum out of nothing to this one to now bringing ykz lynch about. Now this whole day cycle we are going to be led into talking about ykz the whole time when we should not just focus on one person.
Also he defends mderg with this post and also talks about me being scum. How predictable.
I should have called this like i called what happened to 27nb. What happened to 27nb was a long process tho this was an instant. Also me posting a prediction of this would have altered this outcome.
And not release continuing his cycle of posts. One very serious one talking about scum then all of his shorts ones to me. Now back to these serious ones. With a vote attached as his first day post.
Release says to look through YKZ's filter. How about you write a case with the new information we have release. The only reason why release is saying vote ykz instead of me is because it will be a lot more easier to sway all of you into voting ykz. Also it will be easier to drag on the ykz stuff that costed us day one. I do not see how a town release would not be voting me.
And how the hell did no one even vote for me a single time the first day. It is because scum all agreed to not vote me or make a case for me. I do not think there even is one since no one has made one. There was no reason to throw me in day one since they had it won with just this ykz and 27nb rigmarole.
We should really improve are chances of winning by not focusing on one or two people and start looking at many.
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On June 19 2014 14:09 Release wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2014 05:58 Release wrote:On June 17 2014 15:42 goodkarma wrote:
--snip--
And it's not like he's been eager to engage in conversation with you or investigate or get others to side with him. And yet he's just very much so convinced you're scum... When I present information, it now exists for town to discuss, and in my case against YKZ, it puts the onus on him to disprove my arguments. However, he has repeatedly chosen to dismiss my points and provide meaningless hypothetical defenses. This is why he seems so scum to me and remains scum more than anyone else. With regard to the Mderg situation: His first post is bad because of it vacillation but at least he takes a firm stance at the end (albeit for somewhat unclear reasons). He also accuses VE for a lack of specificity but does to a lesser extent the same thing with Artanis and SloOsh. And to a lesser extent than YKZ, he seems more focussed on himself than most others. To me he is one the the weaker candidates for mafia outside YKZ. @Lazer Someone whom I think is a stronger candidate for mafia outside YKZ is Snickers. At the beginning of the game, he casts suspsicion on 27nb following YKZ, supports the Kenpachi rule and encourages further discussion of it. Then he makes some slightly unclear buddy up to YKZ posts. Then he supports me, the he flipflops on me following a not so good case on me by artansis. He harps quite a bit on the "information" and blue talk even after I try multiple times to dissuade him from doing so. He even says "I am leaning pretty hard to vote for you. Especially when two people have posted how your post had such a great timing." And if that weren't enough, he hops straight onto the Mderg train. This is a little bit of bluehunting covered by a boatload of bandwagoning. His agenda feels like one in which he wants to blend into the town instead of making his own reads and arguments. At first, I pardoned him because he wasn't as stubborn as YKZ but this level of bandwagoning suggests to me that he is more likely scum than town. Artanis is on my suspicion list because he his reasoning against me been (I strongly believe) wrong, but he has been firm but not stubborn or inordinately foccused on one topic. His dismissal of YKZ vs 27nb is something that suggests he may be mafia with one of YKZ (my pick) or 27nb but that is a bit of a stretch atm. I made a case for you, Snickers. Please read the thread. Are you talking about new information in general, or new information about YKZ? If it's YKZ (or even you), I have not presented much new information because instead of refuting my points, YKZ and you continue to dismiss or ignore my points, indicating to me that you two cannot refute my points and are therefore scum. YKZ has made less of an effort than you to do so, so he gets my vote for today, until he does something to refute my points (as I said on Day 1, which he dismissed).. VE's disgruntledness/lurkiness is bad but not even close to as bad as the way in which YKZ, in particular, and you try to mislead the town. Koshi also deserves a special mention for his lackadaisicalness, but like VE, not as serious of an infringement as that of YKZ and you (Snickers). Mderg would also get a mention, but I feel increasingly much that Snickers is trying to put him in the same position as 27nb on Day 1. The rest seem to be presenting information and ideas well so I feel that they are towny.
at this point I see only lies in your posts. I will let the others decide.I really would encourage you to show me where your case is on me and where i dismiss or ignore your points.
Very funny how you now say these other names after i ridicule you on trying to focus on one. Too bad it is all lies.
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Yes only focus on two people when three could be mafia. Yes lets focus on people since that worked out so well for you day one.
Also that was very predictable your comment in spoilers. Also you are doing the same back and fourth we had day one.
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On June 16 2014 17:12 Release wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 12:26 Snickers wrote:
So far I am leaning towards 27nb as scum. Although i said the kenpachi rule is useless, now that i understand it better, it does have some merit. It seems like for a scum to claim VT first day would be a tactic that would be stupidly selfish, since it would most likely hurt the whole scum team. It seems like a tactic only a bad scum team would use. (But how would a scum team know it had a disadvantage. Maybe with poor roles? Maybe by meta? I do not think a scum team would plan to use the kenpachi rule to their favor.) 27nb has not really commented on the kenpachi rule and is just dismissing it.
Also i am not voting for her yet.
Only eight out of the twelve players have posted so far, so it seems too early.
My reads for other players so far.
Artanis, sloosh and Ve have not said much so no read.
goodkarma seems to be playing standard. Nothing really sticking out at me for now. Maybe I will reread his posts.
Chezinu has a high ratio of text to information. Seems weird but it only the first day. I do not think this information is sufficient enough to even mention the s word.
YKZ seems to be a very knowledgeable player.
It seems for a stupid tactic for two scum to call each other out day 1. It seems like something that would be a risk that would be hard to get payed back on. Am i right about this? Another reason i am leaning towards 27nb, is if she is shown as scum, YKZ would then almost be proven as a town player and we would have a knowledgeable town player and only two more scum to hunt. Hopefully we could then protect him. I would not like to lynch someone with one of my two points being. "If we lynch her and shes a scum it will help a lot" because she still has a fair chance of not being scum. Also time is really precious for town so voting for such a long shot reason would show that town has bad chances after day one.
Please comment on my thoughts First bold is incorrect. YKZ has been acted stubbornly incorrectly and has misrepresented information in a manner that implies that he is correct and 27nb is wrong (whereas the opposite is true). So you essentially have no reads? I doubt anyone has any solid reads except for/against 27nb and YKZ. Weird to include an entire paragraph about null. The above implies bad/useless town but the next paragraph changes my read completely (as it did for 27nb). Second bold: You would prefer that YKZ be town and therefore believe that 27nb is scum? The roles have already been determined. That is a complete lack of reasoning for wanting a lynch but still being swayed? That reeks of scum trying to jump on the bandwagon. Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 12:32 Snickers wrote:On June 16 2014 12:14 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 12:12 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 12:03 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 11:59 slOosh wrote:
What is this "limited information" that you guys are getting at? On June 16 2014 09:37 YouKnowZhou wrote:
I'm a vt.
I'm not really replying to 27ninjabunnies for making a bad judgement call about any of the lynches. That would be unfair since he has limited information. I will be just trying to clarify some things so you, and everyone else here, could get a better impression about me. Of course, you would have to trust me on that.
What I'm trying to say is, YKZ good, lynching YKZ bad, mmkay? What's truly amazing here is what an awesome example this is for Kenpachi Rule Extended. Even after I call it you're still doing it. Assuming you do in fact flip scum I'll have to write a post game analysis just on the first few pages of this game. Maybe I could tie it in with a general Kenpachi and Kenpachi Rule Extended / Zephirdd Rule tutorial. I'm getting more excited by the minute! BH I thought you were some amazing mafia player? Obviously not because YOU ARE WRONG ON ME! And I'll disprove your kenpachi rule by the end of the game. See the statement is suspicious to me "i'll disprove your kenpachi rule by the end of the game." why the end of the game. It could easily be prove "wrong" the first night. "wrong" as in if your lynched and shown as town. Or if YKZ is lynched and showed scum.I am just trying to show where I think 27nb is thinking in a strange way. Maybe she just thinks that way normally. I do not think the kenpachi rule can be proven wrong. I think it can be proven to not be 100% right though. I think saying it is wrong is stating it has no merit at all. I already explained why i thought a scum could potentially claim VT day one to attempt for an advantage. Also sloosh thanks for posting. I think this kenpachi rule should still be discussed a little more, but I see where you think we should stop the seeming rigmarole. That is a strange statement because asking for town to die to prove something is ridiculous, and is against our goal to kill mafia. However, the second part is correct. Why would you include the first part in this statement? Reeks of mafia. Also quick note on Scientific Method: Nothing can be proven correct, but 1 counterexample demonstrates a need to change the hypothesis. And from 27nb's perspective, I take a neutral stance on what she said. By the end of the game sounds like she was saying that she would be revealed as town when the game conclude, assuming that she would survive the entire game. As opposed to end of the day by getting a lynch of YKZ, but, at that point, not many people had taken a stance on the situation. It's passive but focussed on moving the game forward (as opposed to YKZ's comments which were designed to draw attention to himself and his survival). -----------------------Line for separation-------------------------- Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 13:49 Snickers wrote:
Good post release, I wanted to comment on some of your points.
1.I think it should be stated that 27nb mentioned VT in a post before her vote post.
2.Also this "limited information" we all have different levels of information. This is a semi open game so we know what roles are possible but not the quantity. I am assuming that we all could be goons and VT? but even if we were not, information is simply not on the level of scum or town. A PR has more information that a VT because he knows his respective role exists in the game. So i think generally information goes scum>PR>Vt.
Also this "limited information" does not seem like a slip. 27nb was just trying to get the game going and I think two of the people she mentioned did not post. Even now three people have not posted so I would say we all have limited information. On day 1, information :: Mafia > Town.
3.Your point on YKZ claiming he only slips as mafia while playing town. I think this is 10000x more worthy than the "limited information" post. Is YKZ's slip the "limited information" post? I still think this point is very important even though I do not think YKZ slipped with the kenpachi rule or the "limited information"
4. I do not think talk about blue would lead to mafia finding out the blue players. Although it seems bad to claim blue players day one right? If I was scum and said I was vigilante and there was actually someone vigilante, they would shoot me the first night. If I was VT and claimed vigilante, it would help lead scum to target a "less worthy player". But the risk seems to high for that tactic to be valuable. Also i used "less worthy player" because a smart VT would obviously be more worthy than an unintelligent vigilante that shot a PR.
5. Also that speculate post was really ambiguous and I think i may have caused that. I was not speculating that YKZ was a blue. I was trying to show a possibility that was being overlooked by a player. Then 27nb said "I wouldnt speculate" well is she telling me not to speculate or saying she would not personally speculate.
@1: That was a question, separate from her vote.@2: I'm pretty sure we don't use roles on "night 0." (check the Godfather role on the OP) @3: Not too sure what you're asking but I can clarify: "Limited information" indicates scum because on Day 1, no one has any information except for the mafia, so assuming that YKZ is town, he should have less than or equal information to everyone else. Clearly, "limited information" implies that he has more and therefore cannot be town. next point: The Kenpachi rule does not apply but he insisted repeatedly and incorrectly that it did apply, causing chaos in town and trying to lead a mislynch. @4: That sounds really scummy. On day 1, blues have no information more than town so we need to keep them alive. Talking about blues can only increase that chance that mafia corrects identifies blue so talking about blue on day 1 favors mafia. @5: "You wouldnt speculate bcuz you think i am scum. Unless of cours u kno i am not scum. So I caught u in scum slip." this is incorrect. 27nb who thinks YKZ is scum does not speculate whether YKZ is blue because 27nb believes that YKZ is red. YKZ presents information as though 27nb is speculating which is the complete opposite of what is actually happening. Read the second part closely. Speculation only occurs if town is the hypothesis, which is not the case, so again, YKZ makes an incorrect statement and misleads us. 27nb's statement is not a scum slip by any stretch of the imagination. See below: Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 11:09 27ninjabunnies wrote:
Snickers, you need to work a bit on your quoting, but not bad.
Just hit quote in the upper right corner of the post. It works better!
Also, pr means power role, so yes means same as blue.
I think coming out like that puts yourself in the spotlight.
i wouldnt speculate whether or not he is blue right now. Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 11:22 27ninjabunnies wrote:
OMG Bh<3
WTG buddy!
hahaha. im laughing my ass off right now.
So what I'm saying here is that I think you are scum, and I'm not removing my vote from you..
But in the offchance you are town- which I don't believe one bit- town shouldnt speculate this early in the game whether or not a person is blue or just vt. That gives tooooo much information for mafia. That's what I was saying in sayng we shouldnt speculate whether or not you are blue.
That was definitely not a slip, so stop trying to grasp at straws because I caught you d1. Overall, this sounds like a soft defense of YKZ, and such a defense is untenable.\ + Show Spoiler +and with that I am off to bed
And here is where Release's mistake is so obvious. He did not even know that 27nb posted twice about vt before voting. But he made a huge case on YKZ. and defended 27nb. How would a town not know such an important fact when you can go back and reread. Also when we were only a few posts into the game.
And then everything lines up perfectly with him being scum. I also find it odd that he did not consolidate his Vote. Everyone else did.
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On June 16 2014 11:39 27ninjabunnies wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 11:34 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 11:27 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 11:13 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 11:09 27ninjabunnies wrote:
i wouldnt speculate whether or not he is blue right now. You wouldnt speculate bcuz you think i am scum. Unless of cours u kno i am not scum. So I caught u in scum slip. This reminds me of something you once said in Les Mafia: On May 22 2013 15:51 Blazinghand wrote:
DP, you're not bad, you're just wrong about scumslips. When I flip town, promise me this: for the next full game played, any time you mention scumslips you will say "I was wrong, BH was right, there is no such thing as a scumslip" Did something change? Yeah in the YKZ quote nobody thought I was blazinghand, so I thought I could get away with the fallacious "scumslip" argument, since you guys clearly aren't willing to accept the reasonable Kenpachi Rule argument. The fact of the matter is, 27nb IS scum because of Kenpachi Rule. I'm allowed to lie, cheat, steal, etc (well not cheat but you get the idea) to get you sheep to follow me and lynch him. The ends justify the means. also, 27nb's retconned case on me that's about me saying s/he doesn't have good info is based on, you guessed it, another scumslip. Let me get it through everyone's heads: I, Blazinghand, am by far the best scum player on TL Mafia. I may not be an amazing town player, I admit, but I am a GOD of scum, I only ever scumslip as town. You can look at my past games; every time someone calls me out for a scumslip, I'm town. You know why? As town, I don't have to bother worrying about scumslips cause I know I am innocent. As scum, I play a much cleaner game in terms of slips because I have to. So, 27nb's slip-based case on me actually proves how townie I am, and his/her hilarious backtracking on calling me potentially blue only shows how scummy 27nb is. You are soooooo wrong on me. It's super bad. And tbh, idc what you think of yourself, but you haven't impressed me ass the "best" in TL Mafia. I caught your mafia self d1. Get rekt! And as I said, Kenpachi rule is useless and stupid, and it will be highly disproved this game. I have no need to backtrack, and I had not backtracked anywhere. I'm going forward with this lynch and into the abyss you go!
She dismisses it when it has merit. It is weird how you are saying something exactly like Release said. Sure she may have commented it on it. But think about it this way. (Not pointing to you just the first example that i thought of) If you come into this thread and just talk about the meta of a different game to prove someone meta, you are not really commenting on the game. 27nb never understand how the kenpachi rule had some merit or she did not care about it (dismiss). It is easy to understand the merit of it so i was led to think that she dismissed it.
I am still in favor of being wrong leads me to think you are scum. This just makes me think you are more scum.
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On June 20 2014 01:41 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Is anyone else wondering why Goodkarma got shot over slOosh? I think slOosh is townread by more people and had a more active role.
Also, Snickers, are you calling 27nb scum?
Why would i call someone scum when they were shown as VT. No I am not I am responding to koshi. I think Goodkarma got shot because he was a smart player. I thought Sloosh was town and never said it until now. I have not read all of his posts in super detail but until page 13 he is consistent and did not do anything scummy.
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Yo ykz and chezinu. Care to explain how you are playing to win.
I think the only way you are playing to win is if your mafia.
You guys must get a high off of being confusing.
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When I look at the thread 4 to 5 hours from now and I continue seeing dumbness. I'm going to make one more post to vote someone then afk till lynch. I already contributed enough , especially compared to some players.
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##Vote mderg
For admitting he said something that he did not, plus his scum play from day one.
Got questions for me? Look at my filter.
Good Luck see you after lynch.
Note: Ykz saw my post but still did try to get me stay. What alignment would me leaving help? More scum from ykz=less suspicion of release for me. Release starting to look like bad town.
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On June 20 2014 23:43 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2014 22:54 Lazermonkey wrote:
I'm busy today as well but will hopefully at least be able to post during the lynch. I don't really get the BH wagon yet though. Well, I do get it but I don't get how people would rather vote for BH than they would vote for VE or Koshi.
Untill his reason vote he didn't have a single scum read what so ever. And it IS very convinient that he votes that number 1 lynchbait... I am voting for the only person who has a case made against him. Two even. Do you disagree with the cases? I don't so I vote Mderg. What do you mean with you don't understand why people are voting BH? BH pushed bunnies like a mofo and then disappeared, only to come back do nothing and taunt everybody, so he got votes. I am only doing the do nothing part, so I got less votes than BH. Now that BH did something everybody should comment on that. Is the case legit or is it not? For me the case is very legit and well made so I am ok with BH. Somewhere I should look at the meta of BH in djinn game and in Ver game because he tunneled town D1 in both those games. I will do that later. Voting me is pretty boring btw. I pinkysweared I was town when I entered the game. That should be enough. On top of that I am voting for the best cases in the thread, I am not pushing my own agenda in the thread, and I do not hide any of my reasoning from the thread. I already told you people to look at the people who didn't vote Mderg D1. Scum never votes together. It simply doesn't happen ever. If I had to guess I would say Snickers is the scummer between the 4 but he is on Mderg ass since D1 so meh. Snickers hasn't been answering any of my questions and is just ignoring everything and pushing Release/Mderg.
But I am not pushing anything this game.
People that lie frequently.
1.Koshi
2.Release
People that play this game annoyingly (regardless of alignment most likely)
1.YKZ
2.Chezinu
Mderg do you have a question. My filter will answer it for you. Also funny how i commented on Release's whole "case" on me and he still "thinks" i did not. Do not think it is a case since he summarizes stuff and does not quote.
Also lets see who is the first to find out that YKZ's case on mderg is repeating what me and another person said. Then he completely takes the post i quoted and says the exact same thing. He even says he is sure somebody said this.
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##Unvote mderg
##Vote YouKnowZhou
I have to go to work and will not be home till after the lynch. This is me consolidating my post. If YKZ flips town, everybody needs to evaluate my points on release. Even if YKZ is mafia i can still see Release being mafia. Also i told someone I would say my reads on VE.
Day one he did nothing to help town. I do not even understand how he could think he did something useful. Have not focused on him after day one, but i still think he is not being useful.
Also any town that voted for 27nb as their final vote for day one needs to really take a look at release if YKZ flips town.
Also after today's lynch if I am still alive, I will look into the voting timings on day one and day two. Day one was very close for mderg being lynched instead of bunnies. I think it was goodkarma that voted 27nb cause his vote was of no use, but if release voted mderg and goodkarma, I think it would have been mderg that got lynched.
Also Koshi if you are town try to at least make it seem like you are contributing.
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Lets see how long it takes Release to say I am riding the wagon. He said i did it for 27nb and mderg . Too bad both times i contributed new information that was accurate. Too bad town does not see how his release information is inaccurate.
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On June 21 2014 05:28 Koshi wrote:
Are you Steveling?
No I am not Steveling. Are you Itsimpossibleformetocontributetothisthread. Why would it even matter if I am Steveling. I would hope its not common for people to smurf then admit they are smurfing in game.
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So now that a mafia is shown, what route should we take. I remember someone saying that my reads on mderg's specific phrases were probably wrong since most of the time they do it, they are wrong.
Also i would like hear peoples thoughts on my alignment now that mderg has been shown scum.
I think i should be looking town as hell right now. Here are some of the big reasons.
Day one. I made what i think is the best case on mderg for day one. I consolidated my post on him because that is what town is suppose to do for mafia to not sway it easily. I also commented on how bad a 27nb lynch was because of how town she was. I am not 100% sure of this but i think goodkarma said he was just voting 27nb since release would probably not come back to change his vote. Mderg probably could of been lynched day one if goodkarma(confirmed town) had release actually consolidate his posts.
Day two. I made the best case on Mderg before i had to go. Release tried to say my case on him was just going to be a fallback to prove me town. Note that YKZ's case on mderg before i had to go was the same case i made on mderg day one.
I was voting for mderg until i saw the votes on YKZ. I had no clue what way the votes were going to go so i only had one option to consolidate on unlike day one. I did not think mderg was going to be voted today.
I have sometime so I am going to respond to release's actual case on me. I do not know if there is a point to it if people think I am super town. Anyway if anyone is watching the thread I will be around for some time.
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On June 21 2014 06:31 Release wrote:Foreword: If you paid attention to my case any other time, read after "Why stop there:" Show nested quote +On June 21 2014 02:48 Snickers wrote:On June 20 2014 23:43 Koshi wrote:On June 20 2014 22:54 Lazermonkey wrote:
I'm busy today as well but will hopefully at least be able to post during the lynch. I don't really get the BH wagon yet though. Well, I do get it but I don't get how people would rather vote for BH than they would vote for VE or Koshi.
Untill his reason vote he didn't have a single scum read what so ever. And it IS very convinient that he votes that number 1 lynchbait... I am voting for the only person who has a case made against him. Two even. Do you disagree with the cases? I don't so I vote Mderg. What do you mean with you don't understand why people are voting BH? BH pushed bunnies like a mofo and then disappeared, only to come back do nothing and taunt everybody, so he got votes. I am only doing the do nothing part, so I got less votes than BH. Now that BH did something everybody should comment on that. Is the case legit or is it not? For me the case is very legit and well made so I am ok with BH. Somewhere I should look at the meta of BH in djinn game and in Ver game because he tunneled town D1 in both those games. I will do that later. Voting me is pretty boring btw. I pinkysweared I was town when I entered the game. That should be enough. On top of that I am voting for the best cases in the thread, I am not pushing my own agenda in the thread, and I do not hide any of my reasoning from the thread. I already told you people to look at the people who didn't vote Mderg D1. Scum never votes together. It simply doesn't happen ever. If I had to guess I would say Snickers is the scummer between the 4 but he is on Mderg ass since D1 so meh. Snickers hasn't been answering any of my questions and is just ignoring everything and pushing Release/Mderg.
But I am not pushing anything this game. People that lie frequently. 1.Koshi 2.Release People that play this game annoyingly (regardless of alignment most likely) 1.YKZ 2.Chezinu Mderg do you have a question. My filter will answer it for you. Also funny how i commented on Release's whole "case" on me and he still "thinks" i did not. Do not think it is a case since he summarizes stuff and does not quote. Also lets see who is the first to find out that YKZ's case on mderg is repeating what me and another person said. Then he completely takes the post i quoted and says the exact same thing. He even says he is sure somebody said this. You ask and I guess you will receive. (It is a case. A summary of mafia play means mafia play was there). At the beginning of the game, he casts suspsicion on 27nb following YKZ, supports the Kenpachi rule and encourages further discussion of it.+ Show Spoiler +On June 16 2014 12:26 Snickers wrote:
So far I am leaning towards 27nb as scum. Although i said the kenpachi rule is useless, now that i understand it better, it does have some merit. It seems like for a scum to claim VT first day would be a tactic that would be stupidly selfish, since it would most likely hurt the whole scum team. It seems like a tactic only a bad scum team would use. (But how would a scum team know it had a disadvantage. Maybe with poor roles? Maybe by meta? I do not think a scum team would plan to use the kenpachi rule to their favor.) 27nb has not really commented on the kenpachi rule and is just dismissing it.
Also i am not voting for her yet.
Only eight out of the twelve players have posted so far, so it seems too early.
My reads for other players so far.
Artanis, sloosh and Ve have not said much so no read.
goodkarma seems to be playing standard. Nothing really sticking out at me for now. Maybe I will reread his posts.
Chezinu has a high ratio of text to information. Seems weird but it only the first day. I do not think this information is sufficient enough to even mention the s word.
YKZ seems to be a very knowledgeable player.
It seems for a stupid tactic for two scum to call each other out day 1. It seems like something that would be a risk that would be hard to get payed back on. Am i right about this? Another reason i am leaning towards 27nb, is if she is shown as scum, YKZ would then almost be proven as a town player and we would have a knowledgeable town player and only two more scum to hunt. Hopefully we could then protect him. I would not like to lynch someone with one of my two points being. "If we lynch her and shes a scum it will help a lot" because she still has a fair chance of not being scum. Also time is really precious for town so voting for such a long shot reason would show that town has bad chances after day one.
Please comment on my thoughts This is already well into the day and YKZ has detailed his application of the kenpachi rule. Despite initially disliking the use of the Kenpachi rule + Show Spoiler +On June 16 2014 10:58 Snickers wrote:Hello everyone. I am not sure how to quote someone so if the above quote was wrong please tell me how. (I checked preview and it looked right) What does BH stand for? For awhile i thought VT stood for vigilante not vanilla town. Also this kenpachi rule is useless. he now claims that it has merit. Bandwagon play. 27nb dismisses the reasoning for the Kenpachi (which again is the mention of VT; I'm pretty certain incorrect). Misrep. of information by Snickers. + Show Spoiler +On June 16 2014 12:32 Snickers wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 12:14 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 12:12 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 12:03 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 11:59 slOosh wrote:
What is this "limited information" that you guys are getting at? On June 16 2014 09:37 YouKnowZhou wrote:
I'm a vt.
I'm not really replying to 27ninjabunnies for making a bad judgement call about any of the lynches. That would be unfair since he has limited information. I will be just trying to clarify some things so you, and everyone else here, could get a better impression about me. Of course, you would have to trust me on that.
What I'm trying to say is, YKZ good, lynching YKZ bad, mmkay? What's truly amazing here is what an awesome example this is for Kenpachi Rule Extended. Even after I call it you're still doing it. Assuming you do in fact flip scum I'll have to write a post game analysis just on the first few pages of this game. Maybe I could tie it in with a general Kenpachi and Kenpachi Rule Extended / Zephirdd Rule tutorial. I'm getting more excited by the minute! BH I thought you were some amazing mafia player? Obviously not because YOU ARE WRONG ON ME! And I'll disprove your kenpachi rule by the end of the game. See the statement is suspicious to me "i'll disprove your kenpachi rule by the end of the game." why the end of the game. It could easily be prove "wrong" the first night. "wrong" as in if your lynched and shown as town. Or if YKZ is lynched and showed scum. I am just trying to show where I think 27nb is thinking in a strange way. Maybe she just thinks that way normally. I do not think the kenpachi rule can be proven wrong. I think it can be proven to not be 100% right though. I think saying it is wrong is stating it has no merit at all. I already explained why i thought a scum could potentially claim VT day one to attempt for an advantage. Also sloosh thanks for posting. I think this kenpachi rule should still be discussed a little more, but I see where you think we should stop the seeming rigmarole. Focuses to narrowly on the phrasing of game vs day. The idea of bunny's wish to survive to the end of the game is very clear. And he adds a completely wrong scietific interpretation of the Kenpachi rule, and supports the Kenpachi rule discussion which has caused nothing but havoc in the thread. Then he makes some slightly unclear buddy up to YKZ posts.The last quoted post does exactly that. Bad reasoning to support YKZ's incorrect claims. Let's also go back to this + Show Spoiler +On June 16 2014 12:26 Snickers wrote:
It seems for a stupid tactic for two scum to call each other out day 1. It seems like something that would be a risk that would be hard to get payed back on. Am i right about this? Another reason i am leaning towards 27nb, is if she is shown as scum, YKZ would then almost be proven as a town player and we would have a knowledgeable town player and only two more scum to hunt. Hopefully we could then protect him. I would not like to lynch someone with one of my two points being. "If we lynch her and shes a scum it will help a lot" because she still has a fair chance of not being scum. Also time is really precious for town so voting for such a long shot reason would show that town has bad chances after day one.
in which he supports YKZ's towniness by saying that he would prefer to have a knowledgable player. Later claims that this was an unlikely outcome, but if that were the case, there would be no point in making a post like this. Therefore, I conclude that Snickers is lying and that the intention of this post is to half-defend but moreso align himself with the "towny" YKZ (from his perspective). Then he supports me, the he flipflops on me following a not so good case on me by artansis.+ Show Spoiler +On June 16 2014 13:49 Snickers wrote:
Good post release, I wanted to comment on some of your points.
1.I think it should be stated that 27nb mentioned VT in a post before her vote post.
2.Also this "limited information" we all have different levels of information. This is a semi open game so we know what roles are possible but not the quantity. I am assuming that we all could be goons and VT? but even if we were not, information is simply not on the level of scum or town. A PR has more information that a VT because he knows his respective role exists in the game. So i think generally information goes scum>PR>Vt.
Also this "limited information" does not seem like a slip. 27nb was just trying to get the game going and I think two of the people she mentioned did not post. Even now three people have not posted so I would say we all have limited information.
3.Your point on YKZ claiming he only slips as mafia while playing town. I think this is 10000x more worthy than the "limited information" post. Is YKZ's slip the "limited information" post? I still think this point is very important even though I do not think YKZ slipped with the kenpachi rule or the "limited information"
4. I do not think talk about blue would lead to mafia finding out the blue players. Although it seems bad to claim blue players day one right? If I was scum and said I was vigilante and there was actually someone vigilante, they would shoot me the first night. If I was VT and claimed vigilante, it would help lead scum to target a "less worthy player". But the risk seems to high for that tactic to be valuable. Also i used "less worthy player" because a smart VT would obviously be more worthy than an unintelligent vigilante that shot a PR.
5. Also that speculate post was really ambiguous and I think i may have caused that. I was not speculating that YKZ was a blue. I was trying to show a possibility that was being overlooked by a player. Then 27nb said "I wouldnt speculate" well is she telling me not to speculate or saying she would not personally speculate.
Appears to want a discussion with me. + Show Spoiler +On June 17 2014 00:13 Snickers wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 17:12 Release wrote:On June 16 2014 12:26 Snickers wrote:
So far I am leaning towards 27nb as scum. Although i said the kenpachi rule is useless, now that i understand it better, it does have some merit. It seems like for a scum to claim VT first day would be a tactic that would be stupidly selfish, since it would most likely hurt the whole scum team. It seems like a tactic only a bad scum team would use. (But how would a scum team know it had a disadvantage. Maybe with poor roles? Maybe by meta? I do not think a scum team would plan to use the kenpachi rule to their favor.) 27nb has not really commented on the kenpachi rule and is just dismissing it.
Also i am not voting for her yet.
Only eight out of the twelve players have posted so far, so it seems too early.
My reads for other players so far.
Artanis, sloosh and Ve have not said much so no read.
goodkarma seems to be playing standard. Nothing really sticking out at me for now. Maybe I will reread his posts.
Chezinu has a high ratio of text to information. Seems weird but it only the first day. I do not think this information is sufficient enough to even mention the s word.
YKZ seems to be a very knowledgeable player.
It seems for a stupid tactic for two scum to call each other out day 1. It seems like something that would be a risk that would be hard to get payed back on. Am i right about this? Another reason i am leaning towards 27nb, is if she is shown as scum, YKZ would then almost be proven as a town player and we would have a knowledgeable town player and only two more scum to hunt. Hopefully we could then protect him. I would not like to lynch someone with one of my two points being. "If we lynch her and shes a scum it will help a lot" because she still has a fair chance of not being scum. Also time is really precious for town so voting for such a long shot reason would show that town has bad chances after day one.
Please comment on my thoughts First bold is incorrect. YKZ has been acted stubbornly incorrectly and has misrepresented information in a manner that implies that he is correct and 27nb is wrong (whereas the opposite is true). So you essentially have no reads? I doubt anyone has any solid reads except for/against 27nb and YKZ. Weird to include an entire paragraph about null. The above implies bad/useless town but the next paragraph changes my read completely (as it did for 27nb). Second bold: You would prefer that YKZ be town and therefore believe that 27nb is scum? The roles have already been determined. That is a complete lack of reasoning for wanting a lynch but still being swayed? That reeks of scum trying to jump on the bandwagon. On June 16 2014 12:32 Snickers wrote:On June 16 2014 12:14 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 12:12 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 12:03 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 11:59 slOosh wrote:
What is this "limited information" that you guys are getting at? On June 16 2014 09:37 YouKnowZhou wrote:
I'm a vt.
I'm not really replying to 27ninjabunnies for making a bad judgement call about any of the lynches. That would be unfair since he has limited information. I will be just trying to clarify some things so you, and everyone else here, could get a better impression about me. Of course, you would have to trust me on that.
What I'm trying to say is, YKZ good, lynching YKZ bad, mmkay? What's truly amazing here is what an awesome example this is for Kenpachi Rule Extended. Even after I call it you're still doing it. Assuming you do in fact flip scum I'll have to write a post game analysis just on the first few pages of this game. Maybe I could tie it in with a general Kenpachi and Kenpachi Rule Extended / Zephirdd Rule tutorial. I'm getting more excited by the minute! BH I thought you were some amazing mafia player? Obviously not because YOU ARE WRONG ON ME! And I'll disprove your kenpachi rule by the end of the game. See the statement is suspicious to me "i'll disprove your kenpachi rule by the end of the game." why the end of the game. It could easily be prove "wrong" the first night. "wrong" as in if your lynched and shown as town. Or if YKZ is lynched and showed scum.I am just trying to show where I think 27nb is thinking in a strange way. Maybe she just thinks that way normally. I do not think the kenpachi rule can be proven wrong. I think it can be proven to not be 100% right though. I think saying it is wrong is stating it has no merit at all. I already explained why i thought a scum could potentially claim VT day one to attempt for an advantage. Also sloosh thanks for posting. I think this kenpachi rule should still be discussed a little more, but I see where you think we should stop the seeming rigmarole. That is a strange statement because asking for town to die to prove something is ridiculous, and is against our goal to kill mafia. However, the second part is correct. Why would you include the first part in this statement? Reeks of mafia. Also quick note on Scientific Method: Nothing can be proven correct, but 1 counterexample demonstrates a need to change the hypothesis. And from 27nb's perspective, I take a neutral stance on what she said. By the end of the game sounds like she was saying that she would be revealed as town when the game conclude, assuming that she would survive the entire game. As opposed to end of the day by getting a lynch of YKZ, but, at that point, not many people had taken a stance on the situation. It's passive but focussed on moving the game forward (as opposed to YKZ's comments which were designed to draw attention to himself and his survival). -----------------------Line for separation-------------------------- On June 16 2014 13:49 Snickers wrote:
Good post release, I wanted to comment on some of your points.
1.I think it should be stated that 27nb mentioned VT in a post before her vote post.
2.Also this "limited information" we all have different levels of information. This is a semi open game so we know what roles are possible but not the quantity. I am assuming that we all could be goons and VT? but even if we were not, information is simply not on the level of scum or town. A PR has more information that a VT because he knows his respective role exists in the game. So i think generally information goes scum>PR>Vt.
Also this "limited information" does not seem like a slip. 27nb was just trying to get the game going and I think two of the people she mentioned did not post. Even now three people have not posted so I would say we all have limited information. On day 1, information :: Mafia > Town.
3.Your point on YKZ claiming he only slips as mafia while playing town. I think this is 10000x more worthy than the "limited information" post. Is YKZ's slip the "limited information" post? I still think this point is very important even though I do not think YKZ slipped with the kenpachi rule or the "limited information"
4. I do not think talk about blue would lead to mafia finding out the blue players. Although it seems bad to claim blue players day one right? If I was scum and said I was vigilante and there was actually someone vigilante, they would shoot me the first night. If I was VT and claimed vigilante, it would help lead scum to target a "less worthy player". But the risk seems to high for that tactic to be valuable. Also i used "less worthy player" because a smart VT would obviously be more worthy than an unintelligent vigilante that shot a PR.
5. Also that speculate post was really ambiguous and I think i may have caused that. I was not speculating that YKZ was a blue. I was trying to show a possibility that was being overlooked by a player. Then 27nb said "I wouldnt speculate" well is she telling me not to speculate or saying she would not personally speculate.
@1: That was a question, separate from her vote. @2: I'm pretty sure we don't use roles on "night 0." (check the Godfather role on the OP) @3: Not too sure what you're asking but I can clarify: "Limited information" indicates scum because on Day 1, no one has any information except for the mafia, so assuming that YKZ is town, he should have less than or equal information to everyone else. Clearly, "limited information" implies that he has more and therefore cannot be town. next point: The Kenpachi rule does not apply but he insisted repeatedly and incorrectly that it did apply, causing chaos in town and trying to lead a mislynch. @4: That sounds really scummy. On day 1, blues have no information more than town so we need to keep them alive. Talking about blues can only increase that chance that mafia corrects identifies blue so talking about blue on day 1 favors mafia. @5: "You wouldnt speculate bcuz you think i am scum. Unless of cours u kno i am not scum. So I caught u in scum slip." this is incorrect. 27nb who thinks YKZ is scum does not speculate whether YKZ is blue because 27nb believes that YKZ is red. YKZ presents information as though 27nb is speculating which is the complete opposite of what is actually happening. Read the second part closely. Speculation only occurs if town is the hypothesis, which is not the case, so again, YKZ makes an incorrect statement and misleads us. 27nb's statement is not a scum slip by any stretch of the imagination. See below: On June 16 2014 11:09 27ninjabunnies wrote:
Snickers, you need to work a bit on your quoting, but not bad.
Just hit quote in the upper right corner of the post. It works better!
Also, pr means power role, so yes means same as blue.
I think coming out like that puts yourself in the spotlight.
i wouldnt speculate whether or not he is blue right now. On June 16 2014 11:22 27ninjabunnies wrote:
OMG Bh<3
WTG buddy!
hahaha. im laughing my ass off right now.
So what I'm saying here is that I think you are scum, and I'm not removing my vote from you..
But in the offchance you are town- which I don't believe one bit- town shouldnt speculate this early in the game whether or not a person is blue or just vt. That gives tooooo much information for mafia. That's what I was saying in sayng we shouldnt speculate whether or not you are blue.
That was definitely not a slip, so stop trying to grasp at straws because I caught you d1. Overall, this sounds like a soft defense of YKZ, and such a defense is untenable.\ + Show Spoiler +and with that I am off to bed So i do not think you guys should pick a statement and bold it when right after that statement i said why it would be terrible to do that. I was not asking for 27nb to die, I was saying it was strange for her to act super confident and not mention how she could prove him wrong less than 48 hours than now. 1.In my above post i showed where it was linked to her vote post. Also Her first post about VT was a question. The second one was not. It was then linked to the Vote Post. 2.and 3. Last time I am explaining this unless someone one new to the thread does not understand this. "no one has any information except for the mafia," Since this is a semi open game the knowledge of a PR and a VT is different. Pr knows that his respective role exists. Also we all have information through the posts. 4.So this actually makes sense why talking about blue would be bad day one. (Same logic applies for why we try to get scrum to speak on day one). But i do not think what i said was scummy. I think you said I was scummy then put a true statement after it to try and fool somebody. 5. I still do not understand this speculation idea. I do not think you understand me and are twisting my words a lot to hurt me. You also seem to be twisting 27nb's words a lot to protect her. You seemed to have missed the part where she mentions VT without the question mark. Claims I do not understand and that I twist his words, when I'm pretty sure I understood what he meant. He just doesn't want others to read his statements as mafia so he misrepresents his own ideas to make them appear town, when they are not. Misleading the town --> mafia agenda. + Show Spoiler +On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release Artanis case OP. I disagreed with it and so did slo0sh. + Show Spoiler +On June 17 2014 02:17 Snickers wrote:
Ok I'm on a mobile phone ATM and will not have a proper keyboard 9 hours from now.
First off. 27nb i will try to be more clear in nine hours with examples. My overall feelings on you is this. You were being super confident but did not use all the smack talk available to you. Again I will try to be more clear later.
Somebody wanted to know my thoughts on release.
For awhile I started to think that neither he , 27nb or ykz was scum. I think 27nb is most likely town now.
I think release is actually scum. He has aligned himself with bunnies and defended her but I think she was not in need of defense . I do not see a reason to defend someone not in trouble unless u know they are town. I think release saw a good time to cause confusion while also looking extremly town. It is good to align with a town as scum as a future defense, right?
Some people think I am siding with YKZ. I do not think it is smart to be siding with someone so early unless u know his or her role. I would argue I was going after 27 nab rather than defending YKZ. Also i said he seems knowledgable.
I think he def still is because of his knowledge on the lenpachi rule. You guys have been saying his use of it was wrong but not his definition of it. Also he is bh which u guys know him so he has played a lot. It seems weird for a player that has played a lot to slip so early. ( I know it sounds life I'm defending him now) I think he is knowledgable regardless of his role.
His posts do seem weird tho. He adds on little joking phrases to the end of some posts. Also why create a smurf then show ur actual self. I think he was reacting strongly to something. Flip. Claims defending a suspected towny is scummy. What I had been doing was more attacking YKZ and defending 27nb as a corollary. I said even said that 27nb is not necessarily towny because I thought town 27nb would have made my points already. It should be noted that this post is made after Artanis OP case on me. (sequence: he says I have good post, artanis case, misleading response from snickers, snickers firm flip) He harps quite a bit on the "information" and blue talk even after I try multiple times to dissuade him from doing so.Read the thread. You should be able to find it. + Show Spoiler +On June 16 2014 13:49 Snickers wrote:
Good post release, I wanted to comment on some of your points.
1.I think it should be stated that 27nb mentioned VT in a post before her vote post.
2.Also this "limited information" we all have different levels of information. This is a semi open game so we know what roles are possible but not the quantity. I am assuming that we all could be goons and VT? but even if we were not, information is simply not on the level of scum or town. A PR has more information that a VT because he knows his respective role exists in the game. So i think generally information goes scum>PR>Vt.
Also this "limited information" does not seem like a slip. 27nb was just trying to get the game going and I think two of the people she mentioned did not post. Even now three people have not posted so I would say we all have limited information.
3.Your point on YKZ claiming he only slips as mafia while playing town. I think this is 10000x more worthy than the "limited information" post. Is YKZ's slip the "limited information" post? I still think this point is very important even though I do not think YKZ slipped with the kenpachi rule or the "limited information"
4. I do not think talk about blue would lead to mafia finding out the blue players. Although it seems bad to claim blue players day one right? If I was scum and said I was vigilante and there was actually someone vigilante, they would shoot me the first night. If I was VT and claimed vigilante, it would help lead scum to target a "less worthy player". But the risk seems to high for that tactic to be valuable. Also i used "less worthy player" because a smart VT would obviously be more worthy than an unintelligent vigilante that shot a PR.
5. Also that speculate post was really ambiguous and I think i may have caused that. I was not speculating that YKZ was a blue. I was trying to show a possibility that was being overlooked by a player. Then 27nb said "I wouldnt speculate" well is she telling me not to speculate or saying she would not personally speculate.
On June 17 2014 00:13 Snickers wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 17:12 Release wrote:On June 16 2014 12:26 Snickers wrote:
So far I am leaning towards 27nb as scum. Although i said the kenpachi rule is useless, now that i understand it better, it does have some merit. It seems like for a scum to claim VT first day would be a tactic that would be stupidly selfish, since it would most likely hurt the whole scum team. It seems like a tactic only a bad scum team would use. (But how would a scum team know it had a disadvantage. Maybe with poor roles? Maybe by meta? I do not think a scum team would plan to use the kenpachi rule to their favor.) 27nb has not really commented on the kenpachi rule and is just dismissing it.
Also i am not voting for her yet.
Only eight out of the twelve players have posted so far, so it seems too early.
My reads for other players so far.
Artanis, sloosh and Ve have not said much so no read.
goodkarma seems to be playing standard. Nothing really sticking out at me for now. Maybe I will reread his posts.
Chezinu has a high ratio of text to information. Seems weird but it only the first day. I do not think this information is sufficient enough to even mention the s word.
YKZ seems to be a very knowledgeable player.
It seems for a stupid tactic for two scum to call each other out day 1. It seems like something that would be a risk that would be hard to get payed back on. Am i right about this? Another reason i am leaning towards 27nb, is if she is shown as scum, YKZ would then almost be proven as a town player and we would have a knowledgeable town player and only two more scum to hunt. Hopefully we could then protect him. I would not like to lynch someone with one of my two points being. "If we lynch her and shes a scum it will help a lot" because she still has a fair chance of not being scum. Also time is really precious for town so voting for such a long shot reason would show that town has bad chances after day one.
Please comment on my thoughts First bold is incorrect. YKZ has been acted stubbornly incorrectly and has misrepresented information in a manner that implies that he is correct and 27nb is wrong (whereas the opposite is true). So you essentially have no reads? I doubt anyone has any solid reads except for/against 27nb and YKZ. Weird to include an entire paragraph about null. The above implies bad/useless town but the next paragraph changes my read completely (as it did for 27nb). Second bold: You would prefer that YKZ be town and therefore believe that 27nb is scum? The roles have already been determined. That is a complete lack of reasoning for wanting a lynch but still being swayed? That reeks of scum trying to jump on the bandwagon. On June 16 2014 12:32 Snickers wrote:On June 16 2014 12:14 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 12:12 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 12:03 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 11:59 slOosh wrote:
What is this "limited information" that you guys are getting at? On June 16 2014 09:37 YouKnowZhou wrote:
I'm a vt.
I'm not really replying to 27ninjabunnies for making a bad judgement call about any of the lynches. That would be unfair since he has limited information. I will be just trying to clarify some things so you, and everyone else here, could get a better impression about me. Of course, you would have to trust me on that.
What I'm trying to say is, YKZ good, lynching YKZ bad, mmkay? What's truly amazing here is what an awesome example this is for Kenpachi Rule Extended. Even after I call it you're still doing it. Assuming you do in fact flip scum I'll have to write a post game analysis just on the first few pages of this game. Maybe I could tie it in with a general Kenpachi and Kenpachi Rule Extended / Zephirdd Rule tutorial. I'm getting more excited by the minute! BH I thought you were some amazing mafia player? Obviously not because YOU ARE WRONG ON ME! And I'll disprove your kenpachi rule by the end of the game. See the statement is suspicious to me "i'll disprove your kenpachi rule by the end of the game." why the end of the game. It could easily be prove "wrong" the first night. "wrong" as in if your lynched and shown as town. Or if YKZ is lynched and showed scum.I am just trying to show where I think 27nb is thinking in a strange way. Maybe she just thinks that way normally. I do not think the kenpachi rule can be proven wrong. I think it can be proven to not be 100% right though. I think saying it is wrong is stating it has no merit at all. I already explained why i thought a scum could potentially claim VT day one to attempt for an advantage. Also sloosh thanks for posting. I think this kenpachi rule should still be discussed a little more, but I see where you think we should stop the seeming rigmarole. That is a strange statement because asking for town to die to prove something is ridiculous, and is against our goal to kill mafia. However, the second part is correct. Why would you include the first part in this statement? Reeks of mafia. Also quick note on Scientific Method: Nothing can be proven correct, but 1 counterexample demonstrates a need to change the hypothesis. And from 27nb's perspective, I take a neutral stance on what she said. By the end of the game sounds like she was saying that she would be revealed as town when the game conclude, assuming that she would survive the entire game. As opposed to end of the day by getting a lynch of YKZ, but, at that point, not many people had taken a stance on the situation. It's passive but focussed on moving the game forward (as opposed to YKZ's comments which were designed to draw attention to himself and his survival). -----------------------Line for separation-------------------------- On June 16 2014 13:49 Snickers wrote:
Good post release, I wanted to comment on some of your points.
1.I think it should be stated that 27nb mentioned VT in a post before her vote post.
2.Also this "limited information" we all have different levels of information. This is a semi open game so we know what roles are possible but not the quantity. I am assuming that we all could be goons and VT? but even if we were not, information is simply not on the level of scum or town. A PR has more information that a VT because he knows his respective role exists in the game. So i think generally information goes scum>PR>Vt.
Also this "limited information" does not seem like a slip. 27nb was just trying to get the game going and I think two of the people she mentioned did not post. Even now three people have not posted so I would say we all have limited information. On day 1, information :: Mafia > Town.
3.Your point on YKZ claiming he only slips as mafia while playing town. I think this is 10000x more worthy than the "limited information" post. Is YKZ's slip the "limited information" post? I still think this point is very important even though I do not think YKZ slipped with the kenpachi rule or the "limited information"
4. I do not think talk about blue would lead to mafia finding out the blue players. Although it seems bad to claim blue players day one right? If I was scum and said I was vigilante and there was actually someone vigilante, they would shoot me the first night. If I was VT and claimed vigilante, it would help lead scum to target a "less worthy player". But the risk seems to high for that tactic to be valuable. Also i used "less worthy player" because a smart VT would obviously be more worthy than an unintelligent vigilante that shot a PR.
5. Also that speculate post was really ambiguous and I think i may have caused that. I was not speculating that YKZ was a blue. I was trying to show a possibility that was being overlooked by a player. Then 27nb said "I wouldnt speculate" well is she telling me not to speculate or saying she would not personally speculate.
@1: That was a question, separate from her vote. @2: I'm pretty sure we don't use roles on "night 0." (check the Godfather role on the OP) @3: Not too sure what you're asking but I can clarify: "Limited information" indicates scum because on Day 1, no one has any information except for the mafia, so assuming that YKZ is town, he should have less than or equal information to everyone else. Clearly, "limited information" implies that he has more and therefore cannot be town. next point: The Kenpachi rule does not apply but he insisted repeatedly and incorrectly that it did apply, causing chaos in town and trying to lead a mislynch. @4: That sounds really scummy. On day 1, blues have no information more than town so we need to keep them alive. Talking about blues can only increase that chance that mafia corrects identifies blue so talking about blue on day 1 favors mafia. @5: "You wouldnt speculate bcuz you think i am scum. Unless of cours u kno i am not scum. So I caught u in scum slip." this is incorrect. 27nb who thinks YKZ is scum does not speculate whether YKZ is blue because 27nb believes that YKZ is red. YKZ presents information as though 27nb is speculating which is the complete opposite of what is actually happening. Read the second part closely. Speculation only occurs if town is the hypothesis, which is not the case, so again, YKZ makes an incorrect statement and misleads us. 27nb's statement is not a scum slip by any stretch of the imagination. See below: On June 16 2014 11:09 27ninjabunnies wrote:
Snickers, you need to work a bit on your quoting, but not bad.
Just hit quote in the upper right corner of the post. It works better!
Also, pr means power role, so yes means same as blue.
I think coming out like that puts yourself in the spotlight.
i wouldnt speculate whether or not he is blue right now. On June 16 2014 11:22 27ninjabunnies wrote:
OMG Bh<3
WTG buddy!
hahaha. im laughing my ass off right now.
So what I'm saying here is that I think you are scum, and I'm not removing my vote from you..
But in the offchance you are town- which I don't believe one bit- town shouldnt speculate this early in the game whether or not a person is blue or just vt. That gives tooooo much information for mafia. That's what I was saying in sayng we shouldnt speculate whether or not you are blue.
That was definitely not a slip, so stop trying to grasp at straws because I caught you d1. Overall, this sounds like a soft defense of YKZ, and such a defense is untenable.\ + Show Spoiler +and with that I am off to bed So i do not think you guys should pick a statement and bold it when right after that statement i said why it would be terrible to do that. I was not asking for 27nb to die, I was saying it was strange for her to act super confident and not mention how she could prove him wrong less than 48 hours than now. 1.In my above post i showed where it was linked to her vote post. Also Her first post about VT was a question. The second one was not. It was then linked to the Vote Post. 2.and 3. Last time I am explaining this unless someone one new to the thread does not understand this. "no one has any information except for the mafia," Since this is a semi open game the knowledge of a PR and a VT is different. Pr knows that his respective role exists. Also we all have information through the posts. 4.So this actually makes sense why talking about blue would be bad day one. (Same logic applies for why we try to get scrum to speak on day one). But i do not think what i said was scummy. I think you said I was scummy then put a true statement after it to try and fool somebody. 5. I still do not understand this speculation idea. I do not think you understand me and are twisting my words a lot to hurt me. You also seem to be twisting 27nb's words a lot to protect her. You seemed to have missed the part where she mentions VT without the question mark. On June 17 2014 11:50 Snickers wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2014 08:25 Release wrote:On June 17 2014 03:00 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 17 2014 02:39 Release wrote:
@Lazer (and everyone else): His actions alone are bad. The repetitiveness of the badness and refusal to change his play after being corrected manifest his mafia agenda. "blazinghand is stubborn, therefore he is mafia" and "blazinghand has scumslipped, therefore he is mafia" are both sentences that are like always super doops wrong. I certainly can be stubborn as mafia, but I'm always stubborn. And the scumslip thing, come on guys. I legit don't scumslip as scum, and scumslip all the time as town, ask like anyone who has played more than 2 games with me. Also, I'm just generally a stubborn bastard no matter what I roll; again, ask anyone who has played with me. I will say this though: although I don't particularly like that Release is all over me like a dog on a butt-flavored biscuit, I gotta give him credit: he IS all over me. He went through my filter and tried to find anything he could possibly construe as scummy and slapped it down in a big honkin filter dive case. Now, it's a big honkin WRONG filter drive case, but it's still a lot of effort. Maybe he was explicitly dodging Kenpachi Rule Extended, but he still gets mondo credit for putting in effort imo. Is release scummy for jumping in and just repeating what other people said? Eh, maybe. It's certainly a easy move for scum to make, but it's also worth noting that it's a move town would make. Suppose Release comes in and sees this horrible back and forth between me and 27nb, and for some weird reason becomes convinced I'm scum as a result. He wants to drop a vote on me, but also there's like no-one voting me, so he drops a hella big case. He does work, he does research. I give him credit for this, at least. Yes, it would have been good if he had an original idea, but if he didn't, he didn't. There's only so much to be said about me. Maybe you think he's scum because you think I'm scum and this is the most poorly executed bus ever, but really, 1) it would be a terrible way to do it, and 2) as SloOsh said (and he gets mucho townie points for this) you don't draw associative tells between unflipped players. Back onto the 27nb thing, Check it out. If you look at 27nb's filter, you see the initial push on me, and you see some interactions on me in places where I directly call out 27nb, but that's it as far as interactions with me. Check out some of the posts I made after the post that set off 27nb's "flag" so to speak about me being scummy: On June 16 2014 11:05 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 10:58 Snickers wrote:Also, your posts are giving me BH vibes.
Hello everyone. I am not sure how to quote someone so if the above quote was wrong please tell me how. (I checked preview and it looked right) What does BH stand for? For awhile i thought VT stood for vigilante not vanilla town. Also this kenpachi rule is useless. BH stands for "Blazinghand": he is a mafia-guy who is mean to newbies and throws around his "vet" status in games and thinks he is way better then everyone else. ne1 who thinks I am BH also thinks I am town tho cuz BH's favorite thing is to fake claim blue roles every game when he is scum. He would never claim vt as scum bcuz he wants to fake claim blue rofl In this post i'm explicitly stating I'm not BH and trying to fake not being me. Even worse, I'm setting up the "bh claiming vt must be town" meme and I later "accidentally" reveal myself to be BH. If I were someone who thought YKZ was scum and saw this, I'd be all over it. I'd point out that it's awfully CONVENIENT to say that and then "accidentally" reveal yourself to be bh. I'd write a case, or at least a post, or heck, at least a SENTENCE, about this. Since I'm already suspicious of YKZ, since I supposedly have a scumread on YKZ, responding to this would be a NATURAL thing to do if I was town and voting YKZ. And yet, no response from 27nb (who was in thread at the time) next.. On June 16 2014 11:34 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 11:27 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 11:13 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 11:09 27ninjabunnies wrote:
i wouldnt speculate whether or not he is blue right now. You wouldnt speculate bcuz you think i am scum. Unless of cours u kno i am not scum. So I caught u in scum slip. This reminds me of something you once said in Les Mafia: On May 22 2013 15:51 Blazinghand wrote:
DP, you're not bad, you're just wrong about scumslips. When I flip town, promise me this: for the next full game played, any time you mention scumslips you will say "I was wrong, BH was right, there is no such thing as a scumslip" Did something change? Yeah in the YKZ quote nobody thought I was blazinghand, so I thought I could get away with the fallacious "scumslip" argument, since you guys clearly aren't willing to accept the reasonable Kenpachi Rule argument. The fact of the matter is, 27nb IS scum because of Kenpachi Rule. I'm allowed to lie, cheat, steal, etc (well not cheat but you get the idea) to get you sheep to follow me and lynch him. The ends justify the means. also, 27nb's retconned case on me that's about me saying s/he doesn't have good info is based on, you guessed it, another scumslip. Let me get it through everyone's heads: I, Blazinghand, am by far the best scum player on TL Mafia. I may not be an amazing town player, I admit, but I am a GOD of scum, I only ever scumslip as town. You can look at my past games; every time someone calls me out for a scumslip, I'm town. You know why? As town, I don't have to bother worrying about scumslips cause I know I am innocent. As scum, I play a much cleaner game in terms of slips because I have to. So, 27nb's slip-based case on me actually proves how townie I am, and his/her hilarious backtracking on calling me potentially blue only shows how scummy 27nb is. Look at what I'm saying here. I'm literally admitting to lying to and deceiving the thread. I then say it's okay to lie and that the ends justify the means. Jesus christ on a stick with a cherry on top, how do you not flip out over this if you're town and think I'm scum? You'd be like "look, BH is obviously willing to lie. He was trying to pretend to be someone else while smurfing, which is a CLASSIC BH move when smurfing as scum. He even admits it, right here, in an attempt to defuse the situation. You can't let this slide guys, this is proof BH is scum" anyone who thinks I'm suspicious and has a vote on me, after reading that I admit to lying and trying to decieve the thread, would be ALL OVER this post. You want to know how 27nb responds, though? Here, I'll show you. On June 16 2014 11:39 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 11:34 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 11:27 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 11:13 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 11:09 27ninjabunnies wrote:
i wouldnt speculate whether or not he is blue right now. You wouldnt speculate bcuz you think i am scum. Unless of cours u kno i am not scum. So I caught u in scum slip. This reminds me of something you once said in Les Mafia: On May 22 2013 15:51 Blazinghand wrote:
DP, you're not bad, you're just wrong about scumslips. When I flip town, promise me this: for the next full game played, any time you mention scumslips you will say "I was wrong, BH was right, there is no such thing as a scumslip" Did something change? Yeah in the YKZ quote nobody thought I was blazinghand, so I thought I could get away with the fallacious "scumslip" argument, since you guys clearly aren't willing to accept the reasonable Kenpachi Rule argument. The fact of the matter is, 27nb IS scum because of Kenpachi Rule. I'm allowed to lie, cheat, steal, etc (well not cheat but you get the idea) to get you sheep to follow me and lynch him. The ends justify the means. also, 27nb's retconned case on me that's about me saying s/he doesn't have good info is based on, you guessed it, another scumslip. Let me get it through everyone's heads: I, Blazinghand, am by far the best scum player on TL Mafia. I may not be an amazing town player, I admit, but I am a GOD of scum, I only ever scumslip as town. You can look at my past games; every time someone calls me out for a scumslip, I'm town. You know why? As town, I don't have to bother worrying about scumslips cause I know I am innocent. As scum, I play a much cleaner game in terms of slips because I have to. So, 27nb's slip-based case on me actually proves how townie I am, and his/her hilarious backtracking on calling me potentially blue only shows how scummy 27nb is. You are soooooo wrong on me. It's super bad. And tbh, idc what you think of yourself, but you haven't impressed me ass the "best" in TL Mafia. I caught your mafia self d1. Get rekt! And as I said, Kenpachi rule is useless and stupid, and it will be highly disproved this game. I have no need to backtrack, and I had not backtracked anywhere. I'm going forward with this lynch and into the abyss you go! All 27nb sees is the part of the post directed at her. She argues about like backtracking or whatever, and says she's going forward with this lynch while literally ignoring possibly the most damning statement a player could make. If she was really town and really thought I was scum, at this point she'd say, not "blah blah kenpachi rule backtracking, your'e so bad and i'm so good", she'd say, "ah hah! Caught you in a lie, blazinghand, this is exactly what scum do!" You can see she's clearly not in a mindset of hunting scum, or hell, even actually PUSHING The wagon. She is putting on a big SHOW of pushing the wagon, but she's not actually doing it. She's not pointing out what I'm posting, or why I'm scum, just shouting about like one sentence in one post. She's not hunting scum. She's making noise. This is because she lacks the town mindset, the mindset that someone who really thought I was scum would have. Because 27nb is scum. vote her, for justice. @ first 4 paragraphs: The first sentence is again deliberate misrepresentation of the information that I have presented. Blazinghand is stubbornly wrong even when corrected and refuses to acknowledge corrections and is therefore mafia is the complete picture. This is the same misrepresentation of information he used earlier to cause chaos and it is used to cause chaos now. And the scumslip (which to my mind is the "more information") is NOT the reason that I think you are mafia. Please stop trying to twist information to suit your agenda. I do not merely repeat what has been said. I created a case on you with greater breadth and depth than 27nb did. And maybe you should pay more attention to what SloOsh is saying because he has asked useful questions when (mostly) you and 27nb have caused havoc in the thread. Now disregarding that, my case demonstrates that your logic in your play is incorrect. A proper defense is not to say "If I were scum, I would have..." because that is meaningless. Instead, you need to demonstrates that your logic is not incorrect. Otherwise, I think we should still construe YKZ's earlier posts as deliberate chaos. On June 17 2014 03:11 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 17 2014 01:42 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release Boring, why so? And I know I'm town, so you think Release is more likely scum defending a town here? Or do you think it's scum defending a partner this early into the game? I'm thinking we're both town here. Though, i agree, he is basically just sayng everything I've already said. Boring because you both just kept repeating the same things but in different words and it wasn't going anywhere for me to get a read on either of you. I don't know your alignment and I'm not going to make an association between unflipped players. People did that in cell. You supported that as mafia. Why are you trying to create associations now? On June 17 2014 01:45 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 22:45 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 22:11 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I kinda like this vote. And I kinda like Artanis' face. Release sounds a lot like he's trying to justify feeling the way he does rather than explaining honestly WHY he feels the way he does. Does anyone else think so? I agree Release is looking scummy, but I wouldn't use that exact wording. He seems heavily invested in his case, but is only leaning towards ninja's side of this debate. These two statements especially didn't sit right with me from Release's post on 21:10 15 June 2014: "As the situation between 27bunnies and YKZ currently stands, I am leaning on the side of 27bunnies." And yet he ends this same post: "I think 27bunnie has the right idea, but has not manifested clearly (or in enough detail) what needs to be said to properly incriminate YKZ." Release doesn't seem that interested in what may develop from YKZ. He already has the verdict in mind... This is a HUGE inconsistency from how he starts his post. You have a point here I really like. Which makes me wonder if scum defending a town here. He's not even considering in what YKZ could or could not do. But then if that's the case, and Release is scum, then YKZ is town, and I don't like that. I really really want to be right that YKZ is scum. This gives me a slight scumread on you. Wanting to be right is an easy reason to lean back on without actually saying anything. On June 17 2014 02:38 Release wrote:
Currently this is our only point of discussion, although your vote on me now introduces a discussion about me.
wordy words Boring. You could've introduced a discussion about anyone that had an opinion on the case for bullshit reasons. You also keep repeating yourself in the post as well. If you want me to actually read your posts thoroughly, be more to the point. I'm not interested in your description of what you provided and what you want. It won't help me get a more accurate read on you. On June 17 2014 02:38 slOosh wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I'm sorry, how is Release the perpetrator if it started as a spat between YKZ and 27nb? He hasn't rehashed anything, it's original content and wordiness is alignment null. Release made a giant post about stuff that was really boring so I didn't get very far in it. The first part is definitely rehash. You're right in that he did add some original content afterwards though. Wordiness being alignment null is debatable but that debate wouldn't go anywhere so let's agree to disagree on that. I "repeat" myself because YKZ makes similar chaotic plays with the same agenda. I rehashed some of the dispute because I wanted to provide a complete argument as to why YKZ is mafia and I want to be specific about my references. On June 17 2014 03:19 Lazermonkey wrote:@Release: I'm sorry, I missread your post a little bit. Your argument is actually quite different from Bunnies. I do, however, still fail to understand how YKZ actions make him scum. Your argument seems like WIFOM to me. It's like you assume that YKZ is already scum and then try to justify his actions from that point of you. Have you even considered YKZ's actions from a town PoV? Assuming that he is trying to create chaos by missinterpreting Bunnies is a big leap of faith. I also do think that there is merit to the Kenpachi rule in this case. Even if Bunnies said nummerous times that the VT claim wasn't the reason she voted for YKZ, she still pointed out two times: On June 16 2014 09:42 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 09:37 YouKnowZhou wrote:
I'm a vt.
I'm not really replying to 27ninjabunnies for making a bad judgement call about any of the lynches. That would be unfair since he has limited information. I will be just trying to clarify some things so you, and everyone else here, could get a better impression about me. Of course, you would have to trust me on that.
What I'm trying to say is, YKZ good, lynching YKZ bad, mmkay? Awwwww, how rude. Don't you know you are supposed to talk to a person when they are talking to you? Also-she. And Why right off the bat claim vt? On June 16 2014 09:50 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 09:45 slOosh wrote:
Bunnies (ninja? 27?), who is smurf and why should we lynch him? YKZ is smurf. And at first, I just put him on the list to get conversation going. I don't like that he wants to ignore me completely. And that he has to immediately come out and say he is vt. Looking at these two posts, you get the impression that Bunnies is indeed suspicious of YKZ because of the claim. Bunnies later on refutes this by saying that her suspicion of YKZ had nothing to do with the VT claim, HOWEVER: On June 16 2014 09:52 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 09:50 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 09:37 YouKnowZhou wrote:
I'm a vt.
I'm not really replying to 27ninjabunnies for making a bad judgement call about any of the lynches. That would be unfair since he has limited information. I will be just trying to clarify some things so you, and everyone else here, could get a better impression about me. Of course, you would have to trust me on that.
What I'm trying to say is, YKZ good, lynching YKZ bad, mmkay? This post has no substance. And why would you talk down to bunny about him having limited information? Do you have less limited information? Also, another point to why I don't like YKZ is the bolded. He says I have limited information. How would he know that I am town? Well, if he was mafia he would know that I am town. So ##Vote: YKZ Note the bolded part. It doesn't say "look, this is a really scummy thing YKZ said", it says "look, this is another point I don't like". If she didn't care about him claiming VT, why say that it was another part she didn't like? If there is something that I find null in someones filter I don't say "Hey, this is wierd". I just don't say a thing about it. And the thing is that Bunnies doesn't say anything about this untill YKZ votes her with because of the Kenpachi rule. It is therefore impossible for us to know whether she is talking the truth or not about not caring about the VT thing. Her actions in the thread does, however, indicate that this was something she cared about. Which makes me belive that all this was just a massive backpaddle by Bunnies after she got caught doing scummy stuff. ##Vote: 27ninjabunnies Here is a very concise argument train of thought for you: YKZ claims vt 27 questions claim and in a SEPARATE post votes for "limited information" YKZ repeatedly claims that the vote is for the "vt" claim (incorrect/bad play, currently not particularly indicative of alignment) 27 states the vote is not for the claim, but for the "limited information" (lots of back and forth) but ultimately, YKZ insists that 27 is scum because of vote due to her vote due to vt claim (incorrect again while being corrected). here we consider: if YKZ were town, he would recognize his mistake and reevaluate the situation, and conclude that he was incorrect and therefore 27 is not mafia, and YKZ should unvote. However, YKZ doesn't and, therefore, YKZ has made a conscious choice to ignore corrections to his play, which is indicative of mafia. --------------------------------------- But you should consider the magnitude of the reasoning. You are correct in sayi ng that "another" implies the vt is relevant. However, the next two sentences and the vote form an independently logical sequence of events (and the vt claim alone did not procure a vote). This implies that "limited information" is the main reason for the vote. Care about it? somewhat. Enough to merit use of Kenpachi rule? doubt it. On June 17 2014 03:22 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 17 2014 03:13 slOosh wrote:Hmm, not quite feeling the flaming spears of logic and justice yet. On June 16 2014 12:46 slOosh wrote:
I can see a somewhat reasonable case to be made that bunnies is not a stellar townie, but I don't see the case being made that she must be scum. Why isn't she "bad" town? I think my most recent post demonstrates that 27nb's attention is drawn towards statements about her, rather than incriminating things I say-- even a bad townie would naturally respond to me saying things like "I lied to decieve town because I thought I could get away with it", whereas scum regardless of badness would naturally respond to me saying kenpachi rule but NOT respond to additional evidence. It's not a matter of skill, it's a matter of mindset. A townie, even a new townie (I remember being one), when thyey have a scumread on someone and that person does something really scummy, they RESPOND to it. they add it to their case. It's the natural thought process of a town player REGARDLESS of skill. 27nb is not showing this natural thought process. Look at her responses to my posts. Is she responding to things I say that are scummy or inconsistent and pointing out their inconsistency? Or is she just shouting about my first post whenever she gets the chance, and not actually trying to convince people to lynch me based on new evidence that emerges? A townie who was really tunnelled on me would LOVE to point out new scummy things I say, because he's still trying to formulate and develop a case. 27nb is always talking about me, sure, but look at WHAT she's responding to. Not the stuff a townie would. This is always your argument. 'Not one specific town agenda and therefore mafia." There are multiple ways to play town (since you clearly claim to enjoy pretending to scumslip and most others do not). On June 17 2014 03:48 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 17 2014 03:40 Lazermonkey wrote:On June 17 2014 03:33 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 17 2014 03:28 Lazermonkey wrote:On June 17 2014 03:21 slOosh wrote:
Lazermonkey, what is the "scummy stuff" that bunnies is backpedaling from? The quick version: 1. Bunnies says that YKZ's VT claim is wierd and that she doesn't like it. 2. Bunnies says that ANOTHER thing the she doesn't like about YKZ is his "scum slip". Bunnes votes for YKZ. 3. YKZ votes Bunnies because Kenpachi rule. 4. Bunnies claims that the VT claim wasn't a reason she voted YKZ. 4. It wasn't the MAIN reason I voted YKZ. Okay, I'm not really interested in discussing this further with you. My goal isn't to make you confess in the thread. Its to convince the others. It is basically that it is impossible for us to know that what you are claiming is true or not. Based on what you wrote earlier I do find it more likely that you are scum than that you are town though. Understandable: also ##UnvoteI know this is not going to get votes off of me, and I'm fine with that. But YKZ's last few posts have been a bit towny, especially his read on Artansis. I'm starting to worry we are two town fighting. I also don't want my judgement clouded by my vote on YKZ and would like to hear more from other people. His posting has mostly been to say that town (a very specific town) would have done X but did Y and therefore mafia. Do you guys agree with this kind of arguement? Because I certainly do not. I urge you to reconsider you unvote on YKZ. On June 17 2014 07:05 goodkarma wrote:On June 17 2014 02:38 slOosh wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I'm sorry, how is Release the perpetrator if it started as a spat between YKZ and 27nb? He hasn't rehashed anything, it's original content and wordiness is alignment null. On June 16 2014 22:11 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I kinda like this vote. And I kinda like Artanis' face. Release sounds a lot like he's trying to justify feeling the way he does rather than explaining honestly WHY he feels the way he does. Does anyone else think so? Hmm? How does it make him scum? On June 16 2014 22:45 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 22:11 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I kinda like this vote. And I kinda like Artanis' face. Release sounds a lot like he's trying to justify feeling the way he does rather than explaining honestly WHY he feels the way he does. Does anyone else think so? I agree Release is looking scummy, but I wouldn't use that exact wording. He seems heavily invested in his case, but is only leaning towards ninja's side of this debate. These two statements especially didn't sit right with me from Release's post on 21:10 15 June 2014: "As the situation between 27bunnies and YKZ currently stands, I am leaning on the side of 27bunnies." And yet he ends this same post: "I think 27bunnie has the right idea, but has not manifested clearly (or in enough detail) what needs to be said to properly incriminate YKZ." Release doesn't seem that interested in what may develop from YKZ. He already has the verdict in mind... This is a HUGE inconsistency from how he starts his post. Where's the inconsistency? Leaning may not be indicative of degree of conviction, but merely the direction of it. On June 17 2014 01:45 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 22:45 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 22:11 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I kinda like this vote. And I kinda like Artanis' face. Release sounds a lot like he's trying to justify feeling the way he does rather than explaining honestly WHY he feels the way he does. Does anyone else think so? I agree Release is looking scummy, but I wouldn't use that exact wording. He seems heavily invested in his case, but is only leaning towards ninja's side of this debate. These two statements especially didn't sit right with me from Release's post on 21:10 15 June 2014: "As the situation between 27bunnies and YKZ currently stands, I am leaning on the side of 27bunnies." And yet he ends this same post: "I think 27bunnie has the right idea, but has not manifested clearly (or in enough detail) what needs to be said to properly incriminate YKZ." Release doesn't seem that interested in what may develop from YKZ. He already has the verdict in mind... This is a HUGE inconsistency from how he starts his post. You have a point here I really like. Which makes me wonder if scum defending a town here. He's not even considering in what YKZ could or could not do. But then if that's the case, and Release is scum, then YKZ is town, and I don't like that. I really really want to be right that YKZ is scum. You are starting to make associations here and I don't think that's a good idea. Focus on them as individuals. I'm not really sure what else to say here except that there's a large variance of degrees. How I see it, you have release saying "I'm leaning YKZ scum" on first quote and saying "I am unequivocally convinced YKZ is scum" on second one. Release has since posted something in disagreement, but this is what I see when looking at that post. What's more, when would town ever say "...what needs to be said to incriminate..."? That's some super-scummy wording. Town looks to determine who's scum, not to make someone look like scum. Further, when thinking back on my own games the way Release has posted is almost exactly how I handled my first mafia game. I posted a huge case on an easy target then AFK'ed, only posting when I felt I had to. Looking at a few of his past games (when he was town), he had a much easier to follow flow with his posts. Every post in this game feels very calculated, and given how I personally liked to post in previous games as scum, it's easy for me to see how as an insecure newbie scum he would feel inclined to stack as much together as he could into a few very carefully planted posts. Incriminate: " To cause to appear guilty of a crime or fault; implicate" I believe that YKZ is guilty of a crime of fault, but others do not share that opinion with me. Therefore, it is my duty to convince others (you) of his guilt by causing him to appear to be guilty. I see nothing wrong with the use of the word. It is an apt choice. (would you have preferred implicate? same meaning) OP says to reduce spam / one-liners and I play the game fitfully (about an hour each time). On June 17 2014 07:29 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 17 2014 04:46 slOosh wrote:Yea I so I think Artanis is scum. On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release Here is his first post, top of page 8. There are many unnatural things about this post. First is his complaining tone. We are only 5 pages in, and yet he calls it all "bullshit". It's totally out of place and unnatural. Then he moves away from it and blames Release. Two things here. One is that he does nothing to either comment on, or figure out said "bullshit". No reads or questions on either YKZ / 27nb. Nothing to try to figure either one out. Just a straight up dismissal of the whole thing, and moving on to someone else. Next is how he blames Release for it all. When I press him on this issue: On June 17 2014 03:11 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 17 2014 02:38 slOosh wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I'm sorry, how is Release the perpetrator if it started as a spat between YKZ and 27nb? He hasn't rehashed anything, it's original content and wordiness is alignment null. Release made a giant post about stuff that was really boring so I didn't get very far in it. The first part is definitely rehash. You're right in that he did add some original content afterwards though. Wordiness being alignment null is debatable but that debate wouldn't go anywhere so let's agree to disagree on that. Nothing but fluff. He doesn't offer any meaningful reason why Release is scum. Look at the backpedaling. "oh yea I guess he added content. I could argue that wordiness isn't alignment null but I won't". He doesn't really care to convince me or others why he finds Release scum. He just wants to put his vote somewhere to look like he is contributing. He dodges the question the first time around so I ask him again: On June 17 2014 03:26 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 17 2014 03:17 slOosh wrote:On June 17 2014 03:11 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 17 2014 02:38 slOosh wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I'm sorry, how is Release the perpetrator if it started as a spat between YKZ and 27nb? He hasn't rehashed anything, it's original content and wordiness is alignment null. Release made a giant post about stuff that was really boring so I didn't get very far in it. The first part is definitely rehash. You're right in that he did add some original content afterwards though. Wordiness being alignment null is debatable but that debate wouldn't go anywhere so let's agree to disagree on that. How is Release the perpetrator if it started as a spat between YKZ and 27nb? He's the perpetrator of the conversation continuing about that specific topic. Ridiculous. Release is trying to make sense of the debacle, and Artanis is overexaggerating, blaming him for "perpetrating" this "bullshit", while making no effort to either figure out the YKZ / bunnies thing himself, nor make clear how Release is scum for it. Just vague handwaving and avoiding the biggest discussion topic at the time. Artanis is unnatural, Artanis is apathetic, Artanis is scum. ##Vote Artanis[Xp] I think this post makes slOosh scum. DETAILS AT ELEVEN!!! Really? Because he has been the one asking clarifying questions, obviously with a purpose behind them. That fits townie agenda of forwarding the game in my book. Currently, I feel confident in SloOsh and Lazer as town for candid presentation of information and quetions. I feel that 27nb is town but to a lesser extent. I feel confident in YKZ as mafia. I have 100% corrected you and you did not respond to me at all. You had two main points in your first post. 1. Bunnies connection with YKZ's VT claim. 2. "limited information". I questioned you about the VT claim and even after going back to check yourself you still reported false information. Then i said you were still wrong and you still have not responding. You are not even following your own guidelines to not look like scum. Also this "limited information" this has a detail we all missed. I have never read anywhere in the rules where you have to read your role pm before starting play. Obviously u should (have to?) before day one ends. So we all had "equal info" unless we assume someone has read his role pm. It seems like a weird tactic but i still believe this "limited information" thing has very little value. So one of the two things your first post was based on was just wrong and you still did not correct it. The other thing has very little value in my opinion. I am leaning pretty hard to vote for you. Especially when two people have posted how your post had such a great timing. Also i would really like to hear from oats and hear more for the world cup watcher. Also Chezinu's encryption is a hassle. On June 17 2014 12:23 Snickers wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2014 00:13 Snickers wrote:On June 16 2014 17:12 Release wrote:On June 16 2014 12:26 Snickers wrote:
So far I am leaning towards 27nb as scum. Although i said the kenpachi rule is useless, now that i understand it better, it does have some merit. It seems like for a scum to claim VT first day would be a tactic that would be stupidly selfish, since it would most likely hurt the whole scum team. It seems like a tactic only a bad scum team would use. (But how would a scum team know it had a disadvantage. Maybe with poor roles? Maybe by meta? I do not think a scum team would plan to use the kenpachi rule to their favor.) 27nb has not really commented on the kenpachi rule and is just dismissing it.
Also i am not voting for her yet.
Only eight out of the twelve players have posted so far, so it seems too early.
My reads for other players so far.
Artanis, sloosh and Ve have not said much so no read.
goodkarma seems to be playing standard. Nothing really sticking out at me for now. Maybe I will reread his posts.
Chezinu has a high ratio of text to information. Seems weird but it only the first day. I do not think this information is sufficient enough to even mention the s word.
YKZ seems to be a very knowledgeable player.
It seems for a stupid tactic for two scum to call each other out day 1. It seems like something that would be a risk that would be hard to get payed back on. Am i right about this? Another reason i am leaning towards 27nb, is if she is shown as scum, YKZ would then almost be proven as a town player and we would have a knowledgeable town player and only two more scum to hunt. Hopefully we could then protect him. I would not like to lynch someone with one of my two points being. "If we lynch her and shes a scum it will help a lot" because she still has a fair chance of not being scum. Also time is really precious for town so voting for such a long shot reason would show that town has bad chances after day one.
Please comment on my thoughts First bold is incorrect. YKZ has been acted stubbornly incorrectly and has misrepresented information in a manner that implies that he is correct and 27nb is wrong (whereas the opposite is true). So you essentially have no reads? I doubt anyone has any solid reads except for/against 27nb and YKZ. Weird to include an entire paragraph about null. The above implies bad/useless town but the next paragraph changes my read completely (as it did for 27nb). Second bold: You would prefer that YKZ be town and therefore believe that 27nb is scum? The roles have already been determined. That is a complete lack of reasoning for wanting a lynch but still being swayed? That reeks of scum trying to jump on the bandwagon. On June 16 2014 12:32 Snickers wrote:On June 16 2014 12:14 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 12:12 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 12:03 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 11:59 slOosh wrote:
What is this "limited information" that you guys are getting at? On June 16 2014 09:37 YouKnowZhou wrote:
I'm a vt.
I'm not really replying to 27ninjabunnies for making a bad judgement call about any of the lynches. That would be unfair since he has limited information. I will be just trying to clarify some things so you, and everyone else here, could get a better impression about me. Of course, you would have to trust me on that.
What I'm trying to say is, YKZ good, lynching YKZ bad, mmkay? What's truly amazing here is what an awesome example this is for Kenpachi Rule Extended. Even after I call it you're still doing it. Assuming you do in fact flip scum I'll have to write a post game analysis just on the first few pages of this game. Maybe I could tie it in with a general Kenpachi and Kenpachi Rule Extended / Zephirdd Rule tutorial. I'm getting more excited by the minute! BH I thought you were some amazing mafia player? Obviously not because YOU ARE WRONG ON ME! And I'll disprove your kenpachi rule by the end of the game. See the statement is suspicious to me "i'll disprove your kenpachi rule by the end of the game." why the end of the game. It could easily be prove "wrong" the first night. "wrong" as in if your lynched and shown as town. Or if YKZ is lynched and showed scum.I am just trying to show where I think 27nb is thinking in a strange way. Maybe she just thinks that way normally. I do not think the kenpachi rule can be proven wrong. I think it can be proven to not be 100% right though. I think saying it is wrong is stating it has no merit at all. I already explained why i thought a scum could potentially claim VT day one to attempt for an advantage. Also sloosh thanks for posting. I think this kenpachi rule should still be discussed a little more, but I see where you think we should stop the seeming rigmarole. That is a strange statement because asking for town to die to prove something is ridiculous, and is against our goal to kill mafia. However, the second part is correct. Why would you include the first part in this statement? Reeks of mafia. Also quick note on Scientific Method: Nothing can be proven correct, but 1 counterexample demonstrates a need to change the hypothesis. And from 27nb's perspective, I take a neutral stance on what she said. By the end of the game sounds like she was saying that she would be revealed as town when the game conclude, assuming that she would survive the entire game. As opposed to end of the day by getting a lynch of YKZ, but, at that point, not many people had taken a stance on the situation. It's passive but focussed on moving the game forward (as opposed to YKZ's comments which were designed to draw attention to himself and his survival). -----------------------Line for separation-------------------------- On June 16 2014 13:49 Snickers wrote:
Good post release, I wanted to comment on some of your points.
1.I think it should be stated that 27nb mentioned VT in a post before her vote post.
2.Also this "limited information" we all have different levels of information. This is a semi open game so we know what roles are possible but not the quantity. I am assuming that we all could be goons and VT? but even if we were not, information is simply not on the level of scum or town. A PR has more information that a VT because he knows his respective role exists in the game. So i think generally information goes scum>PR>Vt.
Also this "limited information" does not seem like a slip. 27nb was just trying to get the game going and I think two of the people she mentioned did not post. Even now three people have not posted so I would say we all have limited information. On day 1, information :: Mafia > Town.
3.Your point on YKZ claiming he only slips as mafia while playing town. I think this is 10000x more worthy than the "limited information" post. Is YKZ's slip the "limited information" post? I still think this point is very important even though I do not think YKZ slipped with the kenpachi rule or the "limited information"
4. I do not think talk about blue would lead to mafia finding out the blue players. Although it seems bad to claim blue players day one right? If I was scum and said I was vigilante and there was actually someone vigilante, they would shoot me the first night. If I was VT and claimed vigilante, it would help lead scum to target a "less worthy player". But the risk seems to high for that tactic to be valuable. Also i used "less worthy player" because a smart VT would obviously be more worthy than an unintelligent vigilante that shot a PR.
5. Also that speculate post was really ambiguous and I think i may have caused that. I was not speculating that YKZ was a blue. I was trying to show a possibility that was being overlooked by a player. Then 27nb said "I wouldnt speculate" well is she telling me not to speculate or saying she would not personally speculate.
@1: That was a question, separate from her vote. @2: I'm pretty sure we don't use roles on "night 0." (check the Godfather role on the OP) @3: Not too sure what you're asking but I can clarify: "Limited information" indicates scum because on Day 1, no one has any information except for the mafia, so assuming that YKZ is town, he should have less than or equal information to everyone else. Clearly, "limited information" implies that he has more and therefore cannot be town. next point: The Kenpachi rule does not apply but he insisted repeatedly and incorrectly that it did apply, causing chaos in town and trying to lead a mislynch. @4: That sounds really scummy. On day 1, blues have no information more than town so we need to keep them alive. Talking about blues can only increase that chance that mafia corrects identifies blue so talking about blue on day 1 favors mafia. @5: "You wouldnt speculate bcuz you think i am scum. Unless of cours u kno i am not scum. So I caught u in scum slip." this is incorrect. 27nb who thinks YKZ is scum does not speculate whether YKZ is blue because 27nb believes that YKZ is red. YKZ presents information as though 27nb is speculating which is the complete opposite of what is actually happening. Read the second part closely. Speculation only occurs if town is the hypothesis, which is not the case, so again, YKZ makes an incorrect statement and misleads us. 27nb's statement is not a scum slip by any stretch of the imagination. See below: On June 16 2014 11:09 27ninjabunnies wrote:
Snickers, you need to work a bit on your quoting, but not bad.
Just hit quote in the upper right corner of the post. It works better!
Also, pr means power role, so yes means same as blue.
I think coming out like that puts yourself in the spotlight.
i wouldnt speculate whether or not he is blue right now. On June 16 2014 11:22 27ninjabunnies wrote:
OMG Bh<3
WTG buddy!
hahaha. im laughing my ass off right now.
So what I'm saying here is that I think you are scum, and I'm not removing my vote from you..
But in the offchance you are town- which I don't believe one bit- town shouldnt speculate this early in the game whether or not a person is blue or just vt. That gives tooooo much information for mafia. That's what I was saying in sayng we shouldnt speculate whether or not you are blue.
That was definitely not a slip, so stop trying to grasp at straws because I caught you d1. Overall, this sounds like a soft defense of YKZ, and such a defense is untenable.\ + Show Spoiler +and with that I am off to bed So i do not think you guys should pick a statement and bold it when right after that statement i said why it would be terrible to do that. I was not asking for 27nb to die, I was saying it was strange for her to act super confident and not mention how she could prove him wrong less than 48 hours than now. 1.In my above post i showed where it was linked to her vote post. Also Her first post about VT was a question. The second one was not. It was then linked to the Vote Post. 2.and 3. Last time I am explaining this unless someone one new to the thread does not understand this. "no one has any information except for the mafia," Since this is a semi open game the knowledge of a PR and a VT is different. Pr knows that his respective role exists. Also we all have information through the posts. 4.So this actually makes sense why talking about blue would be bad day one. (Same logic applies for why we try to get scrum to speak on day one). But i do not think what i said was scummy. I think you said I was scummy then put a true statement after it to try and fool somebody. 5. I still do not understand this speculation idea. I do not think you understand me and are twisting my words a lot to hurt me. You also seem to be twisting 27nb's words a lot to protect her. You seemed to have missed the part where she mentions VT without the question mark. you never responded to this post. Also you seem to not understand the fact that pr have more info than VT. Also you keep highlighting the same thing i did but have you read what i wrote right after that. On June 17 2014 12:54 Snickers wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2014 12:44 Release wrote:
Not on day 1 and there is no point in talking about it on day 1.
I read it and it does not excuse illogical play. Regardless of 0/1/2 of 2 scum, you wish does not affect their roles. You soft retract your statement by saying it's a bad reason, but why say it in the first place if that is the case? ok start quoting because i have no clue what "it" is. It is a bad reason why? because we had such little information at the time. I was providing the most detail i could of why i thought 27nb was scum. It was a "long shot" but it still gave me another reason to. I do not understand two thirds of your above post. Why would I not say a bad reason. By bad reason i meant the game was probably going to end up with a lot better reasons for a scum. I am voting you know. I already showed multiple reasons why. ##Vote Release And admit that you are wrong about information. PR has more information than VT. This is a semi open game. PR know if his role exists. VT does not know if any or what PR exists. PR does not know if even one VT exists?(Do not know if this is 100% right because i am new) VT knows at least one VT exists. Both said VT and PR know there is three mafia. Knowing there is a pr is more info than knowing there is a VT. On June 17 2014 13:17 Snickers wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2014 13:05 Release wrote:
If you read the original situation in which the information is said, the information relates to 27nb calling out 3 purported mafia and YKZ saying she has less information. It pertains to knowing who and who isn't mafia, and in this case, VT and PR are equally informed (since it is day 1). Knowing there is a pr does not in any way help call out 3 mafia. Therefore it is the same and we should stop talking about PRs. limited does not equal less. Also you do have a point with at the very start of the game PR and VT have the same chance of randomly guessing mafia. But even on day one it could matter. If u were a cop and somebody claimed cop... for example.
Numbers = his bold statement (ie. 1 2 3 4)
1. Yes i was leaning 27nb but that was before a lot of posted and the people that did posted did not post much. So it was the very start of the game. I think I did not even vote for her. The person i voted for flipped scum today. Also i was saying how terrible it was to vote27nb after i had information from all players.
I support the kenpachi rule. It has merit(it has some value) I do not see where release thinks i support further discussion of it. He did not post the post but someone said they were sick of it but i said i still think it should be discussed but i understand how it could be repetitive. I think that release thinks i encouraged further discussion of it by saying how 27nb dismissed it(which she did, koshi is saying this is true but release is denying it i guess make your own decision) And i did say that only two people said what the kenpachi rule was. YKZ explained it in a lot of detail while 27nb did not have a good explanation of it. I wanted someone else to say what it was or if YKZ was talking nonsense. Nobody did so I am still assuming that is was the kenpachi rule is. Second time I am saying this but no one was saying the kenpachi rule was defined wrong they were saying it was being used wrong.
Release also posted to where i said the kenpachi rule was useless. That was my first post to a mafia game ever. I had very little knowledge of the game.(For example i knew the term lylo existed and it was a phase as the end of the game but I did not know it meant lynch or lose.) Then i gathered new info that no was refuting so i did see the merit in it. Notice how i comment on YKZ saying the kenpachi rule also works then said it almost always works. His knowledge of it did not change but he said different things. I said different things but my knowledge of it did change.
I do not understand where I represented information wrong. Also 27nb could say if YKZ was lynched it would be proven by the end of the day. Also release wants to throw in the scientific method bs. It is simply stated as the kenpachi rule has merit but is not 100% correct.
2. I still stand that i did not make an association with YKZ because of the information I posted after that. I guess you all can decide. I was saying another reason i would want to vote 27nb. That would of been a longshot.
3. I thought was release was scum and I made my own case on his. I did not follow Art's case on him. I thought release did have a good point until he did not even know that 27nb said vt twice before he vote post. I think sloosh but somebody said something like good job now somebody is actually reading the thread. I still believe releases whole post was just the same information we have and then a misleading or terrible new point in his case about vt. So either scum or terrible town. I also do not see how I flip flopped (Does this mean I went from one player to another?) I was slightly leaning 27nb, i never even voted for her. I was full blown for you day one. More than mderg. But i played like a team player and consolidated my post like somebody said that was normal so scum votes could not factor that much.
Now these numbers are going to be related to the third bold comments, second spoiler.
I never asked 27nb to die. I was saying how she could of said if she died she would show town and the kenpachi rule would be disproved or if YKZ was lynched and shown scum first day. Things like this is where i think release is either a terrible town or scum. He misreads the simplest of things.
1. Where i was proving to release that he missed that 27nb mentions vt twice before vote post.
2. and 3. Me and Release had a different definition so i think we were both right about that.
4. I agree that talking about blue roles is bad.(My information on the subject changed) I realized that it
is the same thing we do to find scum. I still never talked about who had which blue role. I was
talking about talking about blue roles. I still think this does not have a primary nature to help scum.
I guess you could say it could lead someone else to mention a role with a person.
|
On June 21 2014 06:31 Release wrote:Foreword: If you paid attention to my case any other time, read after "Why stop there:" Show nested quote +On June 21 2014 02:48 Snickers wrote:On June 20 2014 23:43 Koshi wrote:On June 20 2014 22:54 Lazermonkey wrote:
I'm busy today as well but will hopefully at least be able to post during the lynch. I don't really get the BH wagon yet though. Well, I do get it but I don't get how people would rather vote for BH than they would vote for VE or Koshi.
Untill his reason vote he didn't have a single scum read what so ever. And it IS very convinient that he votes that number 1 lynchbait... I am voting for the only person who has a case made against him. Two even. Do you disagree with the cases? I don't so I vote Mderg. What do you mean with you don't understand why people are voting BH? BH pushed bunnies like a mofo and then disappeared, only to come back do nothing and taunt everybody, so he got votes. I am only doing the do nothing part, so I got less votes than BH. Now that BH did something everybody should comment on that. Is the case legit or is it not? For me the case is very legit and well made so I am ok with BH. Somewhere I should look at the meta of BH in djinn game and in Ver game because he tunneled town D1 in both those games. I will do that later. Voting me is pretty boring btw. I pinkysweared I was town when I entered the game. That should be enough. On top of that I am voting for the best cases in the thread, I am not pushing my own agenda in the thread, and I do not hide any of my reasoning from the thread. I already told you people to look at the people who didn't vote Mderg D1. Scum never votes together. It simply doesn't happen ever. If I had to guess I would say Snickers is the scummer between the 4 but he is on Mderg ass since D1 so meh. Snickers hasn't been answering any of my questions and is just ignoring everything and pushing Release/Mderg.
But I am not pushing anything this game. People that lie frequently. 1.Koshi 2.Release People that play this game annoyingly (regardless of alignment most likely) 1.YKZ 2.Chezinu Mderg do you have a question. My filter will answer it for you. Also funny how i commented on Release's whole "case" on me and he still "thinks" i did not. Do not think it is a case since he summarizes stuff and does not quote. Also lets see who is the first to find out that YKZ's case on mderg is repeating what me and another person said. Then he completely takes the post i quoted and says the exact same thing. He even says he is sure somebody said this. You ask and I guess you will receive. (It is a case. A summary of mafia play means mafia play was there). At the beginning of the game, he casts suspsicion on 27nb following YKZ, supports the Kenpachi rule and encourages further discussion of it.+ Show Spoiler +On June 16 2014 12:26 Snickers wrote:
So far I am leaning towards 27nb as scum. Although i said the kenpachi rule is useless, now that i understand it better, it does have some merit. It seems like for a scum to claim VT first day would be a tactic that would be stupidly selfish, since it would most likely hurt the whole scum team. It seems like a tactic only a bad scum team would use. (But how would a scum team know it had a disadvantage. Maybe with poor roles? Maybe by meta? I do not think a scum team would plan to use the kenpachi rule to their favor.) 27nb has not really commented on the kenpachi rule and is just dismissing it.
Also i am not voting for her yet.
Only eight out of the twelve players have posted so far, so it seems too early.
My reads for other players so far.
Artanis, sloosh and Ve have not said much so no read.
goodkarma seems to be playing standard. Nothing really sticking out at me for now. Maybe I will reread his posts.
Chezinu has a high ratio of text to information. Seems weird but it only the first day. I do not think this information is sufficient enough to even mention the s word.
YKZ seems to be a very knowledgeable player.
It seems for a stupid tactic for two scum to call each other out day 1. It seems like something that would be a risk that would be hard to get payed back on. Am i right about this? Another reason i am leaning towards 27nb, is if she is shown as scum, YKZ would then almost be proven as a town player and we would have a knowledgeable town player and only two more scum to hunt. Hopefully we could then protect him. I would not like to lynch someone with one of my two points being. "If we lynch her and shes a scum it will help a lot" because she still has a fair chance of not being scum. Also time is really precious for town so voting for such a long shot reason would show that town has bad chances after day one.
Please comment on my thoughts This is already well into the day and YKZ has detailed his application of the kenpachi rule. Despite initially disliking the use of the Kenpachi rule + Show Spoiler +On June 16 2014 10:58 Snickers wrote:Hello everyone. I am not sure how to quote someone so if the above quote was wrong please tell me how. (I checked preview and it looked right) What does BH stand for? For awhile i thought VT stood for vigilante not vanilla town. Also this kenpachi rule is useless. he now claims that it has merit. Bandwagon play. 27nb dismisses the reasoning for the Kenpachi (which again is the mention of VT; I'm pretty certain incorrect). Misrep. of information by Snickers. + Show Spoiler +On June 16 2014 12:32 Snickers wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 12:14 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 12:12 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 12:03 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 11:59 slOosh wrote:
What is this "limited information" that you guys are getting at? On June 16 2014 09:37 YouKnowZhou wrote:
I'm a vt.
I'm not really replying to 27ninjabunnies for making a bad judgement call about any of the lynches. That would be unfair since he has limited information. I will be just trying to clarify some things so you, and everyone else here, could get a better impression about me. Of course, you would have to trust me on that.
What I'm trying to say is, YKZ good, lynching YKZ bad, mmkay? What's truly amazing here is what an awesome example this is for Kenpachi Rule Extended. Even after I call it you're still doing it. Assuming you do in fact flip scum I'll have to write a post game analysis just on the first few pages of this game. Maybe I could tie it in with a general Kenpachi and Kenpachi Rule Extended / Zephirdd Rule tutorial. I'm getting more excited by the minute! BH I thought you were some amazing mafia player? Obviously not because YOU ARE WRONG ON ME! And I'll disprove your kenpachi rule by the end of the game. See the statement is suspicious to me "i'll disprove your kenpachi rule by the end of the game." why the end of the game. It could easily be prove "wrong" the first night. "wrong" as in if your lynched and shown as town. Or if YKZ is lynched and showed scum. I am just trying to show where I think 27nb is thinking in a strange way. Maybe she just thinks that way normally. I do not think the kenpachi rule can be proven wrong. I think it can be proven to not be 100% right though. I think saying it is wrong is stating it has no merit at all. I already explained why i thought a scum could potentially claim VT day one to attempt for an advantage. Also sloosh thanks for posting. I think this kenpachi rule should still be discussed a little more, but I see where you think we should stop the seeming rigmarole. Focuses to narrowly on the phrasing of game vs day. The idea of bunny's wish to survive to the end of the game is very clear. And he adds a completely wrong scietific interpretation of the Kenpachi rule, and supports the Kenpachi rule discussion which has caused nothing but havoc in the thread. Then he makes some slightly unclear buddy up to YKZ posts.The last quoted post does exactly that. Bad reasoning to support YKZ's incorrect claims. Let's also go back to this + Show Spoiler +On June 16 2014 12:26 Snickers wrote:
It seems for a stupid tactic for two scum to call each other out day 1. It seems like something that would be a risk that would be hard to get payed back on. Am i right about this? Another reason i am leaning towards 27nb, is if she is shown as scum, YKZ would then almost be proven as a town player and we would have a knowledgeable town player and only two more scum to hunt. Hopefully we could then protect him. I would not like to lynch someone with one of my two points being. "If we lynch her and shes a scum it will help a lot" because she still has a fair chance of not being scum. Also time is really precious for town so voting for such a long shot reason would show that town has bad chances after day one.
in which he supports YKZ's towniness by saying that he would prefer to have a knowledgable player. Later claims that this was an unlikely outcome, but if that were the case, there would be no point in making a post like this. Therefore, I conclude that Snickers is lying and that the intention of this post is to half-defend but moreso align himself with the "towny" YKZ (from his perspective). Then he supports me, the he flipflops on me following a not so good case on me by artansis.+ Show Spoiler +On June 16 2014 13:49 Snickers wrote:
Good post release, I wanted to comment on some of your points.
1.I think it should be stated that 27nb mentioned VT in a post before her vote post.
2.Also this "limited information" we all have different levels of information. This is a semi open game so we know what roles are possible but not the quantity. I am assuming that we all could be goons and VT? but even if we were not, information is simply not on the level of scum or town. A PR has more information that a VT because he knows his respective role exists in the game. So i think generally information goes scum>PR>Vt.
Also this "limited information" does not seem like a slip. 27nb was just trying to get the game going and I think two of the people she mentioned did not post. Even now three people have not posted so I would say we all have limited information.
3.Your point on YKZ claiming he only slips as mafia while playing town. I think this is 10000x more worthy than the "limited information" post. Is YKZ's slip the "limited information" post? I still think this point is very important even though I do not think YKZ slipped with the kenpachi rule or the "limited information"
4. I do not think talk about blue would lead to mafia finding out the blue players. Although it seems bad to claim blue players day one right? If I was scum and said I was vigilante and there was actually someone vigilante, they would shoot me the first night. If I was VT and claimed vigilante, it would help lead scum to target a "less worthy player". But the risk seems to high for that tactic to be valuable. Also i used "less worthy player" because a smart VT would obviously be more worthy than an unintelligent vigilante that shot a PR.
5. Also that speculate post was really ambiguous and I think i may have caused that. I was not speculating that YKZ was a blue. I was trying to show a possibility that was being overlooked by a player. Then 27nb said "I wouldnt speculate" well is she telling me not to speculate or saying she would not personally speculate.
Appears to want a discussion with me. + Show Spoiler +On June 17 2014 00:13 Snickers wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 17:12 Release wrote:On June 16 2014 12:26 Snickers wrote:
So far I am leaning towards 27nb as scum. Although i said the kenpachi rule is useless, now that i understand it better, it does have some merit. It seems like for a scum to claim VT first day would be a tactic that would be stupidly selfish, since it would most likely hurt the whole scum team. It seems like a tactic only a bad scum team would use. (But how would a scum team know it had a disadvantage. Maybe with poor roles? Maybe by meta? I do not think a scum team would plan to use the kenpachi rule to their favor.) 27nb has not really commented on the kenpachi rule and is just dismissing it.
Also i am not voting for her yet.
Only eight out of the twelve players have posted so far, so it seems too early.
My reads for other players so far.
Artanis, sloosh and Ve have not said much so no read.
goodkarma seems to be playing standard. Nothing really sticking out at me for now. Maybe I will reread his posts.
Chezinu has a high ratio of text to information. Seems weird but it only the first day. I do not think this information is sufficient enough to even mention the s word.
YKZ seems to be a very knowledgeable player.
It seems for a stupid tactic for two scum to call each other out day 1. It seems like something that would be a risk that would be hard to get payed back on. Am i right about this? Another reason i am leaning towards 27nb, is if she is shown as scum, YKZ would then almost be proven as a town player and we would have a knowledgeable town player and only two more scum to hunt. Hopefully we could then protect him. I would not like to lynch someone with one of my two points being. "If we lynch her and shes a scum it will help a lot" because she still has a fair chance of not being scum. Also time is really precious for town so voting for such a long shot reason would show that town has bad chances after day one.
Please comment on my thoughts First bold is incorrect. YKZ has been acted stubbornly incorrectly and has misrepresented information in a manner that implies that he is correct and 27nb is wrong (whereas the opposite is true). So you essentially have no reads? I doubt anyone has any solid reads except for/against 27nb and YKZ. Weird to include an entire paragraph about null. The above implies bad/useless town but the next paragraph changes my read completely (as it did for 27nb). Second bold: You would prefer that YKZ be town and therefore believe that 27nb is scum? The roles have already been determined. That is a complete lack of reasoning for wanting a lynch but still being swayed? That reeks of scum trying to jump on the bandwagon. On June 16 2014 12:32 Snickers wrote:On June 16 2014 12:14 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 12:12 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 12:03 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 11:59 slOosh wrote:
What is this "limited information" that you guys are getting at? On June 16 2014 09:37 YouKnowZhou wrote:
I'm a vt.
I'm not really replying to 27ninjabunnies for making a bad judgement call about any of the lynches. That would be unfair since he has limited information. I will be just trying to clarify some things so you, and everyone else here, could get a better impression about me. Of course, you would have to trust me on that.
What I'm trying to say is, YKZ good, lynching YKZ bad, mmkay? What's truly amazing here is what an awesome example this is for Kenpachi Rule Extended. Even after I call it you're still doing it. Assuming you do in fact flip scum I'll have to write a post game analysis just on the first few pages of this game. Maybe I could tie it in with a general Kenpachi and Kenpachi Rule Extended / Zephirdd Rule tutorial. I'm getting more excited by the minute! BH I thought you were some amazing mafia player? Obviously not because YOU ARE WRONG ON ME! And I'll disprove your kenpachi rule by the end of the game. See the statement is suspicious to me "i'll disprove your kenpachi rule by the end of the game." why the end of the game. It could easily be prove "wrong" the first night. "wrong" as in if your lynched and shown as town. Or if YKZ is lynched and showed scum.I am just trying to show where I think 27nb is thinking in a strange way. Maybe she just thinks that way normally. I do not think the kenpachi rule can be proven wrong. I think it can be proven to not be 100% right though. I think saying it is wrong is stating it has no merit at all. I already explained why i thought a scum could potentially claim VT day one to attempt for an advantage. Also sloosh thanks for posting. I think this kenpachi rule should still be discussed a little more, but I see where you think we should stop the seeming rigmarole. That is a strange statement because asking for town to die to prove something is ridiculous, and is against our goal to kill mafia. However, the second part is correct. Why would you include the first part in this statement? Reeks of mafia. Also quick note on Scientific Method: Nothing can be proven correct, but 1 counterexample demonstrates a need to change the hypothesis. And from 27nb's perspective, I take a neutral stance on what she said. By the end of the game sounds like she was saying that she would be revealed as town when the game conclude, assuming that she would survive the entire game. As opposed to end of the day by getting a lynch of YKZ, but, at that point, not many people had taken a stance on the situation. It's passive but focussed on moving the game forward (as opposed to YKZ's comments which were designed to draw attention to himself and his survival). -----------------------Line for separation-------------------------- On June 16 2014 13:49 Snickers wrote:
Good post release, I wanted to comment on some of your points.
1.I think it should be stated that 27nb mentioned VT in a post before her vote post.
2.Also this "limited information" we all have different levels of information. This is a semi open game so we know what roles are possible but not the quantity. I am assuming that we all could be goons and VT? but even if we were not, information is simply not on the level of scum or town. A PR has more information that a VT because he knows his respective role exists in the game. So i think generally information goes scum>PR>Vt.
Also this "limited information" does not seem like a slip. 27nb was just trying to get the game going and I think two of the people she mentioned did not post. Even now three people have not posted so I would say we all have limited information. On day 1, information :: Mafia > Town.
3.Your point on YKZ claiming he only slips as mafia while playing town. I think this is 10000x more worthy than the "limited information" post. Is YKZ's slip the "limited information" post? I still think this point is very important even though I do not think YKZ slipped with the kenpachi rule or the "limited information"
4. I do not think talk about blue would lead to mafia finding out the blue players. Although it seems bad to claim blue players day one right? If I was scum and said I was vigilante and there was actually someone vigilante, they would shoot me the first night. If I was VT and claimed vigilante, it would help lead scum to target a "less worthy player". But the risk seems to high for that tactic to be valuable. Also i used "less worthy player" because a smart VT would obviously be more worthy than an unintelligent vigilante that shot a PR.
5. Also that speculate post was really ambiguous and I think i may have caused that. I was not speculating that YKZ was a blue. I was trying to show a possibility that was being overlooked by a player. Then 27nb said "I wouldnt speculate" well is she telling me not to speculate or saying she would not personally speculate.
@1: That was a question, separate from her vote. @2: I'm pretty sure we don't use roles on "night 0." (check the Godfather role on the OP) @3: Not too sure what you're asking but I can clarify: "Limited information" indicates scum because on Day 1, no one has any information except for the mafia, so assuming that YKZ is town, he should have less than or equal information to everyone else. Clearly, "limited information" implies that he has more and therefore cannot be town. next point: The Kenpachi rule does not apply but he insisted repeatedly and incorrectly that it did apply, causing chaos in town and trying to lead a mislynch. @4: That sounds really scummy. On day 1, blues have no information more than town so we need to keep them alive. Talking about blues can only increase that chance that mafia corrects identifies blue so talking about blue on day 1 favors mafia. @5: "You wouldnt speculate bcuz you think i am scum. Unless of cours u kno i am not scum. So I caught u in scum slip." this is incorrect. 27nb who thinks YKZ is scum does not speculate whether YKZ is blue because 27nb believes that YKZ is red. YKZ presents information as though 27nb is speculating which is the complete opposite of what is actually happening. Read the second part closely. Speculation only occurs if town is the hypothesis, which is not the case, so again, YKZ makes an incorrect statement and misleads us. 27nb's statement is not a scum slip by any stretch of the imagination. See below: On June 16 2014 11:09 27ninjabunnies wrote:
Snickers, you need to work a bit on your quoting, but not bad.
Just hit quote in the upper right corner of the post. It works better!
Also, pr means power role, so yes means same as blue.
I think coming out like that puts yourself in the spotlight.
i wouldnt speculate whether or not he is blue right now. On June 16 2014 11:22 27ninjabunnies wrote:
OMG Bh<3
WTG buddy!
hahaha. im laughing my ass off right now.
So what I'm saying here is that I think you are scum, and I'm not removing my vote from you..
But in the offchance you are town- which I don't believe one bit- town shouldnt speculate this early in the game whether or not a person is blue or just vt. That gives tooooo much information for mafia. That's what I was saying in sayng we shouldnt speculate whether or not you are blue.
That was definitely not a slip, so stop trying to grasp at straws because I caught you d1. Overall, this sounds like a soft defense of YKZ, and such a defense is untenable.\ + Show Spoiler +and with that I am off to bed So i do not think you guys should pick a statement and bold it when right after that statement i said why it would be terrible to do that. I was not asking for 27nb to die, I was saying it was strange for her to act super confident and not mention how she could prove him wrong less than 48 hours than now. 1.In my above post i showed where it was linked to her vote post. Also Her first post about VT was a question. The second one was not. It was then linked to the Vote Post. 2.and 3. Last time I am explaining this unless someone one new to the thread does not understand this. "no one has any information except for the mafia," Since this is a semi open game the knowledge of a PR and a VT is different. Pr knows that his respective role exists. Also we all have information through the posts. 4.So this actually makes sense why talking about blue would be bad day one. (Same logic applies for why we try to get scrum to speak on day one). But i do not think what i said was scummy. I think you said I was scummy then put a true statement after it to try and fool somebody. 5. I still do not understand this speculation idea. I do not think you understand me and are twisting my words a lot to hurt me. You also seem to be twisting 27nb's words a lot to protect her. You seemed to have missed the part where she mentions VT without the question mark. Claims I do not understand and that I twist his words, when I'm pretty sure I understood what he meant. He just doesn't want others to read his statements as mafia so he misrepresents his own ideas to make them appear town, when they are not. Misleading the town --> mafia agenda. + Show Spoiler +On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release Artanis case OP. I disagreed with it and so did slo0sh. + Show Spoiler +On June 17 2014 02:17 Snickers wrote:
Ok I'm on a mobile phone ATM and will not have a proper keyboard 9 hours from now.
First off. 27nb i will try to be more clear in nine hours with examples. My overall feelings on you is this. You were being super confident but did not use all the smack talk available to you. Again I will try to be more clear later.
Somebody wanted to know my thoughts on release.
For awhile I started to think that neither he , 27nb or ykz was scum. I think 27nb is most likely town now.
I think release is actually scum. He has aligned himself with bunnies and defended her but I think she was not in need of defense . I do not see a reason to defend someone not in trouble unless u know they are town. I think release saw a good time to cause confusion while also looking extremly town. It is good to align with a town as scum as a future defense, right?
Some people think I am siding with YKZ. I do not think it is smart to be siding with someone so early unless u know his or her role. I would argue I was going after 27 nab rather than defending YKZ. Also i said he seems knowledgable.
I think he def still is because of his knowledge on the lenpachi rule. You guys have been saying his use of it was wrong but not his definition of it. Also he is bh which u guys know him so he has played a lot. It seems weird for a player that has played a lot to slip so early. ( I know it sounds life I'm defending him now) I think he is knowledgable regardless of his role.
His posts do seem weird tho. He adds on little joking phrases to the end of some posts. Also why create a smurf then show ur actual self. I think he was reacting strongly to something. Flip. Claims defending a suspected towny is scummy. What I had been doing was more attacking YKZ and defending 27nb as a corollary. I said even said that 27nb is not necessarily towny because I thought town 27nb would have made my points already. It should be noted that this post is made after Artanis OP case on me. (sequence: he says I have good post, artanis case, misleading response from snickers, snickers firm flip) He harps quite a bit on the "information" and blue talk even after I try multiple times to dissuade him from doing so.Read the thread. You should be able to find it. + Show Spoiler +On June 16 2014 13:49 Snickers wrote:
Good post release, I wanted to comment on some of your points.
1.I think it should be stated that 27nb mentioned VT in a post before her vote post.
2.Also this "limited information" we all have different levels of information. This is a semi open game so we know what roles are possible but not the quantity. I am assuming that we all could be goons and VT? but even if we were not, information is simply not on the level of scum or town. A PR has more information that a VT because he knows his respective role exists in the game. So i think generally information goes scum>PR>Vt.
Also this "limited information" does not seem like a slip. 27nb was just trying to get the game going and I think two of the people she mentioned did not post. Even now three people have not posted so I would say we all have limited information.
3.Your point on YKZ claiming he only slips as mafia while playing town. I think this is 10000x more worthy than the "limited information" post. Is YKZ's slip the "limited information" post? I still think this point is very important even though I do not think YKZ slipped with the kenpachi rule or the "limited information"
4. I do not think talk about blue would lead to mafia finding out the blue players. Although it seems bad to claim blue players day one right? If I was scum and said I was vigilante and there was actually someone vigilante, they would shoot me the first night. If I was VT and claimed vigilante, it would help lead scum to target a "less worthy player". But the risk seems to high for that tactic to be valuable. Also i used "less worthy player" because a smart VT would obviously be more worthy than an unintelligent vigilante that shot a PR.
5. Also that speculate post was really ambiguous and I think i may have caused that. I was not speculating that YKZ was a blue. I was trying to show a possibility that was being overlooked by a player. Then 27nb said "I wouldnt speculate" well is she telling me not to speculate or saying she would not personally speculate.
On June 17 2014 00:13 Snickers wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 17:12 Release wrote:On June 16 2014 12:26 Snickers wrote:
So far I am leaning towards 27nb as scum. Although i said the kenpachi rule is useless, now that i understand it better, it does have some merit. It seems like for a scum to claim VT first day would be a tactic that would be stupidly selfish, since it would most likely hurt the whole scum team. It seems like a tactic only a bad scum team would use. (But how would a scum team know it had a disadvantage. Maybe with poor roles? Maybe by meta? I do not think a scum team would plan to use the kenpachi rule to their favor.) 27nb has not really commented on the kenpachi rule and is just dismissing it.
Also i am not voting for her yet.
Only eight out of the twelve players have posted so far, so it seems too early.
My reads for other players so far.
Artanis, sloosh and Ve have not said much so no read.
goodkarma seems to be playing standard. Nothing really sticking out at me for now. Maybe I will reread his posts.
Chezinu has a high ratio of text to information. Seems weird but it only the first day. I do not think this information is sufficient enough to even mention the s word.
YKZ seems to be a very knowledgeable player.
It seems for a stupid tactic for two scum to call each other out day 1. It seems like something that would be a risk that would be hard to get payed back on. Am i right about this? Another reason i am leaning towards 27nb, is if she is shown as scum, YKZ would then almost be proven as a town player and we would have a knowledgeable town player and only two more scum to hunt. Hopefully we could then protect him. I would not like to lynch someone with one of my two points being. "If we lynch her and shes a scum it will help a lot" because she still has a fair chance of not being scum. Also time is really precious for town so voting for such a long shot reason would show that town has bad chances after day one.
Please comment on my thoughts First bold is incorrect. YKZ has been acted stubbornly incorrectly and has misrepresented information in a manner that implies that he is correct and 27nb is wrong (whereas the opposite is true). So you essentially have no reads? I doubt anyone has any solid reads except for/against 27nb and YKZ. Weird to include an entire paragraph about null. The above implies bad/useless town but the next paragraph changes my read completely (as it did for 27nb). Second bold: You would prefer that YKZ be town and therefore believe that 27nb is scum? The roles have already been determined. That is a complete lack of reasoning for wanting a lynch but still being swayed? That reeks of scum trying to jump on the bandwagon. On June 16 2014 12:32 Snickers wrote:On June 16 2014 12:14 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 12:12 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 12:03 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 11:59 slOosh wrote:
What is this "limited information" that you guys are getting at? On June 16 2014 09:37 YouKnowZhou wrote:
I'm a vt.
I'm not really replying to 27ninjabunnies for making a bad judgement call about any of the lynches. That would be unfair since he has limited information. I will be just trying to clarify some things so you, and everyone else here, could get a better impression about me. Of course, you would have to trust me on that.
What I'm trying to say is, YKZ good, lynching YKZ bad, mmkay? What's truly amazing here is what an awesome example this is for Kenpachi Rule Extended. Even after I call it you're still doing it. Assuming you do in fact flip scum I'll have to write a post game analysis just on the first few pages of this game. Maybe I could tie it in with a general Kenpachi and Kenpachi Rule Extended / Zephirdd Rule tutorial. I'm getting more excited by the minute! BH I thought you were some amazing mafia player? Obviously not because YOU ARE WRONG ON ME! And I'll disprove your kenpachi rule by the end of the game. See the statement is suspicious to me "i'll disprove your kenpachi rule by the end of the game." why the end of the game. It could easily be prove "wrong" the first night. "wrong" as in if your lynched and shown as town. Or if YKZ is lynched and showed scum.I am just trying to show where I think 27nb is thinking in a strange way. Maybe she just thinks that way normally. I do not think the kenpachi rule can be proven wrong. I think it can be proven to not be 100% right though. I think saying it is wrong is stating it has no merit at all. I already explained why i thought a scum could potentially claim VT day one to attempt for an advantage. Also sloosh thanks for posting. I think this kenpachi rule should still be discussed a little more, but I see where you think we should stop the seeming rigmarole. That is a strange statement because asking for town to die to prove something is ridiculous, and is against our goal to kill mafia. However, the second part is correct. Why would you include the first part in this statement? Reeks of mafia. Also quick note on Scientific Method: Nothing can be proven correct, but 1 counterexample demonstrates a need to change the hypothesis. And from 27nb's perspective, I take a neutral stance on what she said. By the end of the game sounds like she was saying that she would be revealed as town when the game conclude, assuming that she would survive the entire game. As opposed to end of the day by getting a lynch of YKZ, but, at that point, not many people had taken a stance on the situation. It's passive but focussed on moving the game forward (as opposed to YKZ's comments which were designed to draw attention to himself and his survival). -----------------------Line for separation-------------------------- On June 16 2014 13:49 Snickers wrote:
Good post release, I wanted to comment on some of your points.
1.I think it should be stated that 27nb mentioned VT in a post before her vote post.
2.Also this "limited information" we all have different levels of information. This is a semi open game so we know what roles are possible but not the quantity. I am assuming that we all could be goons and VT? but even if we were not, information is simply not on the level of scum or town. A PR has more information that a VT because he knows his respective role exists in the game. So i think generally information goes scum>PR>Vt.
Also this "limited information" does not seem like a slip. 27nb was just trying to get the game going and I think two of the people she mentioned did not post. Even now three people have not posted so I would say we all have limited information. On day 1, information :: Mafia > Town.
3.Your point on YKZ claiming he only slips as mafia while playing town. I think this is 10000x more worthy than the "limited information" post. Is YKZ's slip the "limited information" post? I still think this point is very important even though I do not think YKZ slipped with the kenpachi rule or the "limited information"
4. I do not think talk about blue would lead to mafia finding out the blue players. Although it seems bad to claim blue players day one right? If I was scum and said I was vigilante and there was actually someone vigilante, they would shoot me the first night. If I was VT and claimed vigilante, it would help lead scum to target a "less worthy player". But the risk seems to high for that tactic to be valuable. Also i used "less worthy player" because a smart VT would obviously be more worthy than an unintelligent vigilante that shot a PR.
5. Also that speculate post was really ambiguous and I think i may have caused that. I was not speculating that YKZ was a blue. I was trying to show a possibility that was being overlooked by a player. Then 27nb said "I wouldnt speculate" well is she telling me not to speculate or saying she would not personally speculate.
@1: That was a question, separate from her vote. @2: I'm pretty sure we don't use roles on "night 0." (check the Godfather role on the OP) @3: Not too sure what you're asking but I can clarify: "Limited information" indicates scum because on Day 1, no one has any information except for the mafia, so assuming that YKZ is town, he should have less than or equal information to everyone else. Clearly, "limited information" implies that he has more and therefore cannot be town. next point: The Kenpachi rule does not apply but he insisted repeatedly and incorrectly that it did apply, causing chaos in town and trying to lead a mislynch. @4: That sounds really scummy. On day 1, blues have no information more than town so we need to keep them alive. Talking about blues can only increase that chance that mafia corrects identifies blue so talking about blue on day 1 favors mafia. @5: "You wouldnt speculate bcuz you think i am scum. Unless of cours u kno i am not scum. So I caught u in scum slip." this is incorrect. 27nb who thinks YKZ is scum does not speculate whether YKZ is blue because 27nb believes that YKZ is red. YKZ presents information as though 27nb is speculating which is the complete opposite of what is actually happening. Read the second part closely. Speculation only occurs if town is the hypothesis, which is not the case, so again, YKZ makes an incorrect statement and misleads us. 27nb's statement is not a scum slip by any stretch of the imagination. See below: On June 16 2014 11:09 27ninjabunnies wrote:
Snickers, you need to work a bit on your quoting, but not bad.
Just hit quote in the upper right corner of the post. It works better!
Also, pr means power role, so yes means same as blue.
I think coming out like that puts yourself in the spotlight.
i wouldnt speculate whether or not he is blue right now. On June 16 2014 11:22 27ninjabunnies wrote:
OMG Bh<3
WTG buddy!
hahaha. im laughing my ass off right now.
So what I'm saying here is that I think you are scum, and I'm not removing my vote from you..
But in the offchance you are town- which I don't believe one bit- town shouldnt speculate this early in the game whether or not a person is blue or just vt. That gives tooooo much information for mafia. That's what I was saying in sayng we shouldnt speculate whether or not you are blue.
That was definitely not a slip, so stop trying to grasp at straws because I caught you d1. Overall, this sounds like a soft defense of YKZ, and such a defense is untenable.\ + Show Spoiler +and with that I am off to bed So i do not think you guys should pick a statement and bold it when right after that statement i said why it would be terrible to do that. I was not asking for 27nb to die, I was saying it was strange for her to act super confident and not mention how she could prove him wrong less than 48 hours than now. 1.In my above post i showed where it was linked to her vote post. Also Her first post about VT was a question. The second one was not. It was then linked to the Vote Post. 2.and 3. Last time I am explaining this unless someone one new to the thread does not understand this. "no one has any information except for the mafia," Since this is a semi open game the knowledge of a PR and a VT is different. Pr knows that his respective role exists. Also we all have information through the posts. 4.So this actually makes sense why talking about blue would be bad day one. (Same logic applies for why we try to get scrum to speak on day one). But i do not think what i said was scummy. I think you said I was scummy then put a true statement after it to try and fool somebody. 5. I still do not understand this speculation idea. I do not think you understand me and are twisting my words a lot to hurt me. You also seem to be twisting 27nb's words a lot to protect her. You seemed to have missed the part where she mentions VT without the question mark. On June 17 2014 11:50 Snickers wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2014 08:25 Release wrote:On June 17 2014 03:00 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 17 2014 02:39 Release wrote:
@Lazer (and everyone else): His actions alone are bad. The repetitiveness of the badness and refusal to change his play after being corrected manifest his mafia agenda. "blazinghand is stubborn, therefore he is mafia" and "blazinghand has scumslipped, therefore he is mafia" are both sentences that are like always super doops wrong. I certainly can be stubborn as mafia, but I'm always stubborn. And the scumslip thing, come on guys. I legit don't scumslip as scum, and scumslip all the time as town, ask like anyone who has played more than 2 games with me. Also, I'm just generally a stubborn bastard no matter what I roll; again, ask anyone who has played with me. I will say this though: although I don't particularly like that Release is all over me like a dog on a butt-flavored biscuit, I gotta give him credit: he IS all over me. He went through my filter and tried to find anything he could possibly construe as scummy and slapped it down in a big honkin filter dive case. Now, it's a big honkin WRONG filter drive case, but it's still a lot of effort. Maybe he was explicitly dodging Kenpachi Rule Extended, but he still gets mondo credit for putting in effort imo. Is release scummy for jumping in and just repeating what other people said? Eh, maybe. It's certainly a easy move for scum to make, but it's also worth noting that it's a move town would make. Suppose Release comes in and sees this horrible back and forth between me and 27nb, and for some weird reason becomes convinced I'm scum as a result. He wants to drop a vote on me, but also there's like no-one voting me, so he drops a hella big case. He does work, he does research. I give him credit for this, at least. Yes, it would have been good if he had an original idea, but if he didn't, he didn't. There's only so much to be said about me. Maybe you think he's scum because you think I'm scum and this is the most poorly executed bus ever, but really, 1) it would be a terrible way to do it, and 2) as SloOsh said (and he gets mucho townie points for this) you don't draw associative tells between unflipped players. Back onto the 27nb thing, Check it out. If you look at 27nb's filter, you see the initial push on me, and you see some interactions on me in places where I directly call out 27nb, but that's it as far as interactions with me. Check out some of the posts I made after the post that set off 27nb's "flag" so to speak about me being scummy: On June 16 2014 11:05 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 10:58 Snickers wrote:Also, your posts are giving me BH vibes.
Hello everyone. I am not sure how to quote someone so if the above quote was wrong please tell me how. (I checked preview and it looked right) What does BH stand for? For awhile i thought VT stood for vigilante not vanilla town. Also this kenpachi rule is useless. BH stands for "Blazinghand": he is a mafia-guy who is mean to newbies and throws around his "vet" status in games and thinks he is way better then everyone else. ne1 who thinks I am BH also thinks I am town tho cuz BH's favorite thing is to fake claim blue roles every game when he is scum. He would never claim vt as scum bcuz he wants to fake claim blue rofl In this post i'm explicitly stating I'm not BH and trying to fake not being me. Even worse, I'm setting up the "bh claiming vt must be town" meme and I later "accidentally" reveal myself to be BH. If I were someone who thought YKZ was scum and saw this, I'd be all over it. I'd point out that it's awfully CONVENIENT to say that and then "accidentally" reveal yourself to be bh. I'd write a case, or at least a post, or heck, at least a SENTENCE, about this. Since I'm already suspicious of YKZ, since I supposedly have a scumread on YKZ, responding to this would be a NATURAL thing to do if I was town and voting YKZ. And yet, no response from 27nb (who was in thread at the time) next.. On June 16 2014 11:34 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 11:27 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 11:13 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 11:09 27ninjabunnies wrote:
i wouldnt speculate whether or not he is blue right now. You wouldnt speculate bcuz you think i am scum. Unless of cours u kno i am not scum. So I caught u in scum slip. This reminds me of something you once said in Les Mafia: On May 22 2013 15:51 Blazinghand wrote:
DP, you're not bad, you're just wrong about scumslips. When I flip town, promise me this: for the next full game played, any time you mention scumslips you will say "I was wrong, BH was right, there is no such thing as a scumslip" Did something change? Yeah in the YKZ quote nobody thought I was blazinghand, so I thought I could get away with the fallacious "scumslip" argument, since you guys clearly aren't willing to accept the reasonable Kenpachi Rule argument. The fact of the matter is, 27nb IS scum because of Kenpachi Rule. I'm allowed to lie, cheat, steal, etc (well not cheat but you get the idea) to get you sheep to follow me and lynch him. The ends justify the means. also, 27nb's retconned case on me that's about me saying s/he doesn't have good info is based on, you guessed it, another scumslip. Let me get it through everyone's heads: I, Blazinghand, am by far the best scum player on TL Mafia. I may not be an amazing town player, I admit, but I am a GOD of scum, I only ever scumslip as town. You can look at my past games; every time someone calls me out for a scumslip, I'm town. You know why? As town, I don't have to bother worrying about scumslips cause I know I am innocent. As scum, I play a much cleaner game in terms of slips because I have to. So, 27nb's slip-based case on me actually proves how townie I am, and his/her hilarious backtracking on calling me potentially blue only shows how scummy 27nb is. Look at what I'm saying here. I'm literally admitting to lying to and deceiving the thread. I then say it's okay to lie and that the ends justify the means. Jesus christ on a stick with a cherry on top, how do you not flip out over this if you're town and think I'm scum? You'd be like "look, BH is obviously willing to lie. He was trying to pretend to be someone else while smurfing, which is a CLASSIC BH move when smurfing as scum. He even admits it, right here, in an attempt to defuse the situation. You can't let this slide guys, this is proof BH is scum" anyone who thinks I'm suspicious and has a vote on me, after reading that I admit to lying and trying to decieve the thread, would be ALL OVER this post. You want to know how 27nb responds, though? Here, I'll show you. On June 16 2014 11:39 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 11:34 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 11:27 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 11:13 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 11:09 27ninjabunnies wrote:
i wouldnt speculate whether or not he is blue right now. You wouldnt speculate bcuz you think i am scum. Unless of cours u kno i am not scum. So I caught u in scum slip. This reminds me of something you once said in Les Mafia: On May 22 2013 15:51 Blazinghand wrote:
DP, you're not bad, you're just wrong about scumslips. When I flip town, promise me this: for the next full game played, any time you mention scumslips you will say "I was wrong, BH was right, there is no such thing as a scumslip" Did something change? Yeah in the YKZ quote nobody thought I was blazinghand, so I thought I could get away with the fallacious "scumslip" argument, since you guys clearly aren't willing to accept the reasonable Kenpachi Rule argument. The fact of the matter is, 27nb IS scum because of Kenpachi Rule. I'm allowed to lie, cheat, steal, etc (well not cheat but you get the idea) to get you sheep to follow me and lynch him. The ends justify the means. also, 27nb's retconned case on me that's about me saying s/he doesn't have good info is based on, you guessed it, another scumslip. Let me get it through everyone's heads: I, Blazinghand, am by far the best scum player on TL Mafia. I may not be an amazing town player, I admit, but I am a GOD of scum, I only ever scumslip as town. You can look at my past games; every time someone calls me out for a scumslip, I'm town. You know why? As town, I don't have to bother worrying about scumslips cause I know I am innocent. As scum, I play a much cleaner game in terms of slips because I have to. So, 27nb's slip-based case on me actually proves how townie I am, and his/her hilarious backtracking on calling me potentially blue only shows how scummy 27nb is. You are soooooo wrong on me. It's super bad. And tbh, idc what you think of yourself, but you haven't impressed me ass the "best" in TL Mafia. I caught your mafia self d1. Get rekt! And as I said, Kenpachi rule is useless and stupid, and it will be highly disproved this game. I have no need to backtrack, and I had not backtracked anywhere. I'm going forward with this lynch and into the abyss you go! All 27nb sees is the part of the post directed at her. She argues about like backtracking or whatever, and says she's going forward with this lynch while literally ignoring possibly the most damning statement a player could make. If she was really town and really thought I was scum, at this point she'd say, not "blah blah kenpachi rule backtracking, your'e so bad and i'm so good", she'd say, "ah hah! Caught you in a lie, blazinghand, this is exactly what scum do!" You can see she's clearly not in a mindset of hunting scum, or hell, even actually PUSHING The wagon. She is putting on a big SHOW of pushing the wagon, but she's not actually doing it. She's not pointing out what I'm posting, or why I'm scum, just shouting about like one sentence in one post. She's not hunting scum. She's making noise. This is because she lacks the town mindset, the mindset that someone who really thought I was scum would have. Because 27nb is scum. vote her, for justice. @ first 4 paragraphs: The first sentence is again deliberate misrepresentation of the information that I have presented. Blazinghand is stubbornly wrong even when corrected and refuses to acknowledge corrections and is therefore mafia is the complete picture. This is the same misrepresentation of information he used earlier to cause chaos and it is used to cause chaos now. And the scumslip (which to my mind is the "more information") is NOT the reason that I think you are mafia. Please stop trying to twist information to suit your agenda. I do not merely repeat what has been said. I created a case on you with greater breadth and depth than 27nb did. And maybe you should pay more attention to what SloOsh is saying because he has asked useful questions when (mostly) you and 27nb have caused havoc in the thread. Now disregarding that, my case demonstrates that your logic in your play is incorrect. A proper defense is not to say "If I were scum, I would have..." because that is meaningless. Instead, you need to demonstrates that your logic is not incorrect. Otherwise, I think we should still construe YKZ's earlier posts as deliberate chaos. On June 17 2014 03:11 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 17 2014 01:42 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release Boring, why so? And I know I'm town, so you think Release is more likely scum defending a town here? Or do you think it's scum defending a partner this early into the game? I'm thinking we're both town here. Though, i agree, he is basically just sayng everything I've already said. Boring because you both just kept repeating the same things but in different words and it wasn't going anywhere for me to get a read on either of you. I don't know your alignment and I'm not going to make an association between unflipped players. People did that in cell. You supported that as mafia. Why are you trying to create associations now? On June 17 2014 01:45 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 22:45 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 22:11 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I kinda like this vote. And I kinda like Artanis' face. Release sounds a lot like he's trying to justify feeling the way he does rather than explaining honestly WHY he feels the way he does. Does anyone else think so? I agree Release is looking scummy, but I wouldn't use that exact wording. He seems heavily invested in his case, but is only leaning towards ninja's side of this debate. These two statements especially didn't sit right with me from Release's post on 21:10 15 June 2014: "As the situation between 27bunnies and YKZ currently stands, I am leaning on the side of 27bunnies." And yet he ends this same post: "I think 27bunnie has the right idea, but has not manifested clearly (or in enough detail) what needs to be said to properly incriminate YKZ." Release doesn't seem that interested in what may develop from YKZ. He already has the verdict in mind... This is a HUGE inconsistency from how he starts his post. You have a point here I really like. Which makes me wonder if scum defending a town here. He's not even considering in what YKZ could or could not do. But then if that's the case, and Release is scum, then YKZ is town, and I don't like that. I really really want to be right that YKZ is scum. This gives me a slight scumread on you. Wanting to be right is an easy reason to lean back on without actually saying anything. On June 17 2014 02:38 Release wrote:
Currently this is our only point of discussion, although your vote on me now introduces a discussion about me.
wordy words Boring. You could've introduced a discussion about anyone that had an opinion on the case for bullshit reasons. You also keep repeating yourself in the post as well. If you want me to actually read your posts thoroughly, be more to the point. I'm not interested in your description of what you provided and what you want. It won't help me get a more accurate read on you. On June 17 2014 02:38 slOosh wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I'm sorry, how is Release the perpetrator if it started as a spat between YKZ and 27nb? He hasn't rehashed anything, it's original content and wordiness is alignment null. Release made a giant post about stuff that was really boring so I didn't get very far in it. The first part is definitely rehash. You're right in that he did add some original content afterwards though. Wordiness being alignment null is debatable but that debate wouldn't go anywhere so let's agree to disagree on that. I "repeat" myself because YKZ makes similar chaotic plays with the same agenda. I rehashed some of the dispute because I wanted to provide a complete argument as to why YKZ is mafia and I want to be specific about my references. On June 17 2014 03:19 Lazermonkey wrote:@Release: I'm sorry, I missread your post a little bit. Your argument is actually quite different from Bunnies. I do, however, still fail to understand how YKZ actions make him scum. Your argument seems like WIFOM to me. It's like you assume that YKZ is already scum and then try to justify his actions from that point of you. Have you even considered YKZ's actions from a town PoV? Assuming that he is trying to create chaos by missinterpreting Bunnies is a big leap of faith. I also do think that there is merit to the Kenpachi rule in this case. Even if Bunnies said nummerous times that the VT claim wasn't the reason she voted for YKZ, she still pointed out two times: On June 16 2014 09:42 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 09:37 YouKnowZhou wrote:
I'm a vt.
I'm not really replying to 27ninjabunnies for making a bad judgement call about any of the lynches. That would be unfair since he has limited information. I will be just trying to clarify some things so you, and everyone else here, could get a better impression about me. Of course, you would have to trust me on that.
What I'm trying to say is, YKZ good, lynching YKZ bad, mmkay? Awwwww, how rude. Don't you know you are supposed to talk to a person when they are talking to you? Also-she. And Why right off the bat claim vt? On June 16 2014 09:50 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 09:45 slOosh wrote:
Bunnies (ninja? 27?), who is smurf and why should we lynch him? YKZ is smurf. And at first, I just put him on the list to get conversation going. I don't like that he wants to ignore me completely. And that he has to immediately come out and say he is vt. Looking at these two posts, you get the impression that Bunnies is indeed suspicious of YKZ because of the claim. Bunnies later on refutes this by saying that her suspicion of YKZ had nothing to do with the VT claim, HOWEVER: On June 16 2014 09:52 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 09:50 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 09:37 YouKnowZhou wrote:
I'm a vt.
I'm not really replying to 27ninjabunnies for making a bad judgement call about any of the lynches. That would be unfair since he has limited information. I will be just trying to clarify some things so you, and everyone else here, could get a better impression about me. Of course, you would have to trust me on that.
What I'm trying to say is, YKZ good, lynching YKZ bad, mmkay? This post has no substance. And why would you talk down to bunny about him having limited information? Do you have less limited information? Also, another point to why I don't like YKZ is the bolded. He says I have limited information. How would he know that I am town? Well, if he was mafia he would know that I am town. So ##Vote: YKZ Note the bolded part. It doesn't say "look, this is a really scummy thing YKZ said", it says "look, this is another point I don't like". If she didn't care about him claiming VT, why say that it was another part she didn't like? If there is something that I find null in someones filter I don't say "Hey, this is wierd". I just don't say a thing about it. And the thing is that Bunnies doesn't say anything about this untill YKZ votes her with because of the Kenpachi rule. It is therefore impossible for us to know whether she is talking the truth or not about not caring about the VT thing. Her actions in the thread does, however, indicate that this was something she cared about. Which makes me belive that all this was just a massive backpaddle by Bunnies after she got caught doing scummy stuff. ##Vote: 27ninjabunnies Here is a very concise argument train of thought for you: YKZ claims vt 27 questions claim and in a SEPARATE post votes for "limited information" YKZ repeatedly claims that the vote is for the "vt" claim (incorrect/bad play, currently not particularly indicative of alignment) 27 states the vote is not for the claim, but for the "limited information" (lots of back and forth) but ultimately, YKZ insists that 27 is scum because of vote due to her vote due to vt claim (incorrect again while being corrected). here we consider: if YKZ were town, he would recognize his mistake and reevaluate the situation, and conclude that he was incorrect and therefore 27 is not mafia, and YKZ should unvote. However, YKZ doesn't and, therefore, YKZ has made a conscious choice to ignore corrections to his play, which is indicative of mafia. --------------------------------------- But you should consider the magnitude of the reasoning. You are correct in sayi ng that "another" implies the vt is relevant. However, the next two sentences and the vote form an independently logical sequence of events (and the vt claim alone did not procure a vote). This implies that "limited information" is the main reason for the vote. Care about it? somewhat. Enough to merit use of Kenpachi rule? doubt it. On June 17 2014 03:22 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 17 2014 03:13 slOosh wrote:Hmm, not quite feeling the flaming spears of logic and justice yet. On June 16 2014 12:46 slOosh wrote:
I can see a somewhat reasonable case to be made that bunnies is not a stellar townie, but I don't see the case being made that she must be scum. Why isn't she "bad" town? I think my most recent post demonstrates that 27nb's attention is drawn towards statements about her, rather than incriminating things I say-- even a bad townie would naturally respond to me saying things like "I lied to decieve town because I thought I could get away with it", whereas scum regardless of badness would naturally respond to me saying kenpachi rule but NOT respond to additional evidence. It's not a matter of skill, it's a matter of mindset. A townie, even a new townie (I remember being one), when thyey have a scumread on someone and that person does something really scummy, they RESPOND to it. they add it to their case. It's the natural thought process of a town player REGARDLESS of skill. 27nb is not showing this natural thought process. Look at her responses to my posts. Is she responding to things I say that are scummy or inconsistent and pointing out their inconsistency? Or is she just shouting about my first post whenever she gets the chance, and not actually trying to convince people to lynch me based on new evidence that emerges? A townie who was really tunnelled on me would LOVE to point out new scummy things I say, because he's still trying to formulate and develop a case. 27nb is always talking about me, sure, but look at WHAT she's responding to. Not the stuff a townie would. This is always your argument. 'Not one specific town agenda and therefore mafia." There are multiple ways to play town (since you clearly claim to enjoy pretending to scumslip and most others do not). On June 17 2014 03:48 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 17 2014 03:40 Lazermonkey wrote:On June 17 2014 03:33 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 17 2014 03:28 Lazermonkey wrote:On June 17 2014 03:21 slOosh wrote:
Lazermonkey, what is the "scummy stuff" that bunnies is backpedaling from? The quick version: 1. Bunnies says that YKZ's VT claim is wierd and that she doesn't like it. 2. Bunnies says that ANOTHER thing the she doesn't like about YKZ is his "scum slip". Bunnes votes for YKZ. 3. YKZ votes Bunnies because Kenpachi rule. 4. Bunnies claims that the VT claim wasn't a reason she voted YKZ. 4. It wasn't the MAIN reason I voted YKZ. Okay, I'm not really interested in discussing this further with you. My goal isn't to make you confess in the thread. Its to convince the others. It is basically that it is impossible for us to know that what you are claiming is true or not. Based on what you wrote earlier I do find it more likely that you are scum than that you are town though. Understandable: also ##UnvoteI know this is not going to get votes off of me, and I'm fine with that. But YKZ's last few posts have been a bit towny, especially his read on Artansis. I'm starting to worry we are two town fighting. I also don't want my judgement clouded by my vote on YKZ and would like to hear more from other people. His posting has mostly been to say that town (a very specific town) would have done X but did Y and therefore mafia. Do you guys agree with this kind of arguement? Because I certainly do not. I urge you to reconsider you unvote on YKZ. On June 17 2014 07:05 goodkarma wrote:On June 17 2014 02:38 slOosh wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I'm sorry, how is Release the perpetrator if it started as a spat between YKZ and 27nb? He hasn't rehashed anything, it's original content and wordiness is alignment null. On June 16 2014 22:11 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I kinda like this vote. And I kinda like Artanis' face. Release sounds a lot like he's trying to justify feeling the way he does rather than explaining honestly WHY he feels the way he does. Does anyone else think so? Hmm? How does it make him scum? On June 16 2014 22:45 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 22:11 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I kinda like this vote. And I kinda like Artanis' face. Release sounds a lot like he's trying to justify feeling the way he does rather than explaining honestly WHY he feels the way he does. Does anyone else think so? I agree Release is looking scummy, but I wouldn't use that exact wording. He seems heavily invested in his case, but is only leaning towards ninja's side of this debate. These two statements especially didn't sit right with me from Release's post on 21:10 15 June 2014: "As the situation between 27bunnies and YKZ currently stands, I am leaning on the side of 27bunnies." And yet he ends this same post: "I think 27bunnie has the right idea, but has not manifested clearly (or in enough detail) what needs to be said to properly incriminate YKZ." Release doesn't seem that interested in what may develop from YKZ. He already has the verdict in mind... This is a HUGE inconsistency from how he starts his post. Where's the inconsistency? Leaning may not be indicative of degree of conviction, but merely the direction of it. On June 17 2014 01:45 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 22:45 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 22:11 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I kinda like this vote. And I kinda like Artanis' face. Release sounds a lot like he's trying to justify feeling the way he does rather than explaining honestly WHY he feels the way he does. Does anyone else think so? I agree Release is looking scummy, but I wouldn't use that exact wording. He seems heavily invested in his case, but is only leaning towards ninja's side of this debate. These two statements especially didn't sit right with me from Release's post on 21:10 15 June 2014: "As the situation between 27bunnies and YKZ currently stands, I am leaning on the side of 27bunnies." And yet he ends this same post: "I think 27bunnie has the right idea, but has not manifested clearly (or in enough detail) what needs to be said to properly incriminate YKZ." Release doesn't seem that interested in what may develop from YKZ. He already has the verdict in mind... This is a HUGE inconsistency from how he starts his post. You have a point here I really like. Which makes me wonder if scum defending a town here. He's not even considering in what YKZ could or could not do. But then if that's the case, and Release is scum, then YKZ is town, and I don't like that. I really really want to be right that YKZ is scum. You are starting to make associations here and I don't think that's a good idea. Focus on them as individuals. I'm not really sure what else to say here except that there's a large variance of degrees. How I see it, you have release saying "I'm leaning YKZ scum" on first quote and saying "I am unequivocally convinced YKZ is scum" on second one. Release has since posted something in disagreement, but this is what I see when looking at that post. What's more, when would town ever say "...what needs to be said to incriminate..."? That's some super-scummy wording. Town looks to determine who's scum, not to make someone look like scum. Further, when thinking back on my own games the way Release has posted is almost exactly how I handled my first mafia game. I posted a huge case on an easy target then AFK'ed, only posting when I felt I had to. Looking at a few of his past games (when he was town), he had a much easier to follow flow with his posts. Every post in this game feels very calculated, and given how I personally liked to post in previous games as scum, it's easy for me to see how as an insecure newbie scum he would feel inclined to stack as much together as he could into a few very carefully planted posts. Incriminate: " To cause to appear guilty of a crime or fault; implicate" I believe that YKZ is guilty of a crime of fault, but others do not share that opinion with me. Therefore, it is my duty to convince others (you) of his guilt by causing him to appear to be guilty. I see nothing wrong with the use of the word. It is an apt choice. (would you have preferred implicate? same meaning) OP says to reduce spam / one-liners and I play the game fitfully (about an hour each time). On June 17 2014 07:29 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 17 2014 04:46 slOosh wrote:Yea I so I think Artanis is scum. On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release Here is his first post, top of page 8. There are many unnatural things about this post. First is his complaining tone. We are only 5 pages in, and yet he calls it all "bullshit". It's totally out of place and unnatural. Then he moves away from it and blames Release. Two things here. One is that he does nothing to either comment on, or figure out said "bullshit". No reads or questions on either YKZ / 27nb. Nothing to try to figure either one out. Just a straight up dismissal of the whole thing, and moving on to someone else. Next is how he blames Release for it all. When I press him on this issue: On June 17 2014 03:11 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 17 2014 02:38 slOosh wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I'm sorry, how is Release the perpetrator if it started as a spat between YKZ and 27nb? He hasn't rehashed anything, it's original content and wordiness is alignment null. Release made a giant post about stuff that was really boring so I didn't get very far in it. The first part is definitely rehash. You're right in that he did add some original content afterwards though. Wordiness being alignment null is debatable but that debate wouldn't go anywhere so let's agree to disagree on that. Nothing but fluff. He doesn't offer any meaningful reason why Release is scum. Look at the backpedaling. "oh yea I guess he added content. I could argue that wordiness isn't alignment null but I won't". He doesn't really care to convince me or others why he finds Release scum. He just wants to put his vote somewhere to look like he is contributing. He dodges the question the first time around so I ask him again: On June 17 2014 03:26 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 17 2014 03:17 slOosh wrote:On June 17 2014 03:11 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 17 2014 02:38 slOosh wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I'm sorry, how is Release the perpetrator if it started as a spat between YKZ and 27nb? He hasn't rehashed anything, it's original content and wordiness is alignment null. Release made a giant post about stuff that was really boring so I didn't get very far in it. The first part is definitely rehash. You're right in that he did add some original content afterwards though. Wordiness being alignment null is debatable but that debate wouldn't go anywhere so let's agree to disagree on that. How is Release the perpetrator if it started as a spat between YKZ and 27nb? He's the perpetrator of the conversation continuing about that specific topic. Ridiculous. Release is trying to make sense of the debacle, and Artanis is overexaggerating, blaming him for "perpetrating" this "bullshit", while making no effort to either figure out the YKZ / bunnies thing himself, nor make clear how Release is scum for it. Just vague handwaving and avoiding the biggest discussion topic at the time. Artanis is unnatural, Artanis is apathetic, Artanis is scum. ##Vote Artanis[Xp] I think this post makes slOosh scum. DETAILS AT ELEVEN!!! Really? Because he has been the one asking clarifying questions, obviously with a purpose behind them. That fits townie agenda of forwarding the game in my book. Currently, I feel confident in SloOsh and Lazer as town for candid presentation of information and quetions. I feel that 27nb is town but to a lesser extent. I feel confident in YKZ as mafia. I have 100% corrected you and you did not respond to me at all. You had two main points in your first post. 1. Bunnies connection with YKZ's VT claim. 2. "limited information". I questioned you about the VT claim and even after going back to check yourself you still reported false information. Then i said you were still wrong and you still have not responding. You are not even following your own guidelines to not look like scum. Also this "limited information" this has a detail we all missed. I have never read anywhere in the rules where you have to read your role pm before starting play. Obviously u should (have to?) before day one ends. So we all had "equal info" unless we assume someone has read his role pm. It seems like a weird tactic but i still believe this "limited information" thing has very little value. So one of the two things your first post was based on was just wrong and you still did not correct it. The other thing has very little value in my opinion. I am leaning pretty hard to vote for you. Especially when two people have posted how your post had such a great timing. Also i would really like to hear from oats and hear more for the world cup watcher. Also Chezinu's encryption is a hassle. On June 17 2014 12:23 Snickers wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2014 00:13 Snickers wrote:On June 16 2014 17:12 Release wrote:On June 16 2014 12:26 Snickers wrote:
So far I am leaning towards 27nb as scum. Although i said the kenpachi rule is useless, now that i understand it better, it does have some merit. It seems like for a scum to claim VT first day would be a tactic that would be stupidly selfish, since it would most likely hurt the whole scum team. It seems like a tactic only a bad scum team would use. (But how would a scum team know it had a disadvantage. Maybe with poor roles? Maybe by meta? I do not think a scum team would plan to use the kenpachi rule to their favor.) 27nb has not really commented on the kenpachi rule and is just dismissing it.
Also i am not voting for her yet.
Only eight out of the twelve players have posted so far, so it seems too early.
My reads for other players so far.
Artanis, sloosh and Ve have not said much so no read.
goodkarma seems to be playing standard. Nothing really sticking out at me for now. Maybe I will reread his posts.
Chezinu has a high ratio of text to information. Seems weird but it only the first day. I do not think this information is sufficient enough to even mention the s word.
YKZ seems to be a very knowledgeable player.
It seems for a stupid tactic for two scum to call each other out day 1. It seems like something that would be a risk that would be hard to get payed back on. Am i right about this? Another reason i am leaning towards 27nb, is if she is shown as scum, YKZ would then almost be proven as a town player and we would have a knowledgeable town player and only two more scum to hunt. Hopefully we could then protect him. I would not like to lynch someone with one of my two points being. "If we lynch her and shes a scum it will help a lot" because she still has a fair chance of not being scum. Also time is really precious for town so voting for such a long shot reason would show that town has bad chances after day one.
Please comment on my thoughts First bold is incorrect. YKZ has been acted stubbornly incorrectly and has misrepresented information in a manner that implies that he is correct and 27nb is wrong (whereas the opposite is true). So you essentially have no reads? I doubt anyone has any solid reads except for/against 27nb and YKZ. Weird to include an entire paragraph about null. The above implies bad/useless town but the next paragraph changes my read completely (as it did for 27nb). Second bold: You would prefer that YKZ be town and therefore believe that 27nb is scum? The roles have already been determined. That is a complete lack of reasoning for wanting a lynch but still being swayed? That reeks of scum trying to jump on the bandwagon. On June 16 2014 12:32 Snickers wrote:On June 16 2014 12:14 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 12:12 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 12:03 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 11:59 slOosh wrote:
What is this "limited information" that you guys are getting at? On June 16 2014 09:37 YouKnowZhou wrote:
I'm a vt.
I'm not really replying to 27ninjabunnies for making a bad judgement call about any of the lynches. That would be unfair since he has limited information. I will be just trying to clarify some things so you, and everyone else here, could get a better impression about me. Of course, you would have to trust me on that.
What I'm trying to say is, YKZ good, lynching YKZ bad, mmkay? What's truly amazing here is what an awesome example this is for Kenpachi Rule Extended. Even after I call it you're still doing it. Assuming you do in fact flip scum I'll have to write a post game analysis just on the first few pages of this game. Maybe I could tie it in with a general Kenpachi and Kenpachi Rule Extended / Zephirdd Rule tutorial. I'm getting more excited by the minute! BH I thought you were some amazing mafia player? Obviously not because YOU ARE WRONG ON ME! And I'll disprove your kenpachi rule by the end of the game. See the statement is suspicious to me "i'll disprove your kenpachi rule by the end of the game." why the end of the game. It could easily be prove "wrong" the first night. "wrong" as in if your lynched and shown as town. Or if YKZ is lynched and showed scum.I am just trying to show where I think 27nb is thinking in a strange way. Maybe she just thinks that way normally. I do not think the kenpachi rule can be proven wrong. I think it can be proven to not be 100% right though. I think saying it is wrong is stating it has no merit at all. I already explained why i thought a scum could potentially claim VT day one to attempt for an advantage. Also sloosh thanks for posting. I think this kenpachi rule should still be discussed a little more, but I see where you think we should stop the seeming rigmarole. That is a strange statement because asking for town to die to prove something is ridiculous, and is against our goal to kill mafia. However, the second part is correct. Why would you include the first part in this statement? Reeks of mafia. Also quick note on Scientific Method: Nothing can be proven correct, but 1 counterexample demonstrates a need to change the hypothesis. And from 27nb's perspective, I take a neutral stance on what she said. By the end of the game sounds like she was saying that she would be revealed as town when the game conclude, assuming that she would survive the entire game. As opposed to end of the day by getting a lynch of YKZ, but, at that point, not many people had taken a stance on the situation. It's passive but focussed on moving the game forward (as opposed to YKZ's comments which were designed to draw attention to himself and his survival). -----------------------Line for separation-------------------------- On June 16 2014 13:49 Snickers wrote:
Good post release, I wanted to comment on some of your points.
1.I think it should be stated that 27nb mentioned VT in a post before her vote post.
2.Also this "limited information" we all have different levels of information. This is a semi open game so we know what roles are possible but not the quantity. I am assuming that we all could be goons and VT? but even if we were not, information is simply not on the level of scum or town. A PR has more information that a VT because he knows his respective role exists in the game. So i think generally information goes scum>PR>Vt.
Also this "limited information" does not seem like a slip. 27nb was just trying to get the game going and I think two of the people she mentioned did not post. Even now three people have not posted so I would say we all have limited information. On day 1, information :: Mafia > Town.
3.Your point on YKZ claiming he only slips as mafia while playing town. I think this is 10000x more worthy than the "limited information" post. Is YKZ's slip the "limited information" post? I still think this point is very important even though I do not think YKZ slipped with the kenpachi rule or the "limited information"
4. I do not think talk about blue would lead to mafia finding out the blue players. Although it seems bad to claim blue players day one right? If I was scum and said I was vigilante and there was actually someone vigilante, they would shoot me the first night. If I was VT and claimed vigilante, it would help lead scum to target a "less worthy player". But the risk seems to high for that tactic to be valuable. Also i used "less worthy player" because a smart VT would obviously be more worthy than an unintelligent vigilante that shot a PR.
5. Also that speculate post was really ambiguous and I think i may have caused that. I was not speculating that YKZ was a blue. I was trying to show a possibility that was being overlooked by a player. Then 27nb said "I wouldnt speculate" well is she telling me not to speculate or saying she would not personally speculate.
@1: That was a question, separate from her vote. @2: I'm pretty sure we don't use roles on "night 0." (check the Godfather role on the OP) @3: Not too sure what you're asking but I can clarify: "Limited information" indicates scum because on Day 1, no one has any information except for the mafia, so assuming that YKZ is town, he should have less than or equal information to everyone else. Clearly, "limited information" implies that he has more and therefore cannot be town. next point: The Kenpachi rule does not apply but he insisted repeatedly and incorrectly that it did apply, causing chaos in town and trying to lead a mislynch. @4: That sounds really scummy. On day 1, blues have no information more than town so we need to keep them alive. Talking about blues can only increase that chance that mafia corrects identifies blue so talking about blue on day 1 favors mafia. @5: "You wouldnt speculate bcuz you think i am scum. Unless of cours u kno i am not scum. So I caught u in scum slip." this is incorrect. 27nb who thinks YKZ is scum does not speculate whether YKZ is blue because 27nb believes that YKZ is red. YKZ presents information as though 27nb is speculating which is the complete opposite of what is actually happening. Read the second part closely. Speculation only occurs if town is the hypothesis, which is not the case, so again, YKZ makes an incorrect statement and misleads us. 27nb's statement is not a scum slip by any stretch of the imagination. See below: On June 16 2014 11:09 27ninjabunnies wrote:
Snickers, you need to work a bit on your quoting, but not bad.
Just hit quote in the upper right corner of the post. It works better!
Also, pr means power role, so yes means same as blue.
I think coming out like that puts yourself in the spotlight.
i wouldnt speculate whether or not he is blue right now. On June 16 2014 11:22 27ninjabunnies wrote:
OMG Bh<3
WTG buddy!
hahaha. im laughing my ass off right now.
So what I'm saying here is that I think you are scum, and I'm not removing my vote from you..
But in the offchance you are town- which I don't believe one bit- town shouldnt speculate this early in the game whether or not a person is blue or just vt. That gives tooooo much information for mafia. That's what I was saying in sayng we shouldnt speculate whether or not you are blue.
That was definitely not a slip, so stop trying to grasp at straws because I caught you d1. Overall, this sounds like a soft defense of YKZ, and such a defense is untenable.\ + Show Spoiler +and with that I am off to bed So i do not think you guys should pick a statement and bold it when right after that statement i said why it would be terrible to do that. I was not asking for 27nb to die, I was saying it was strange for her to act super confident and not mention how she could prove him wrong less than 48 hours than now. 1.In my above post i showed where it was linked to her vote post. Also Her first post about VT was a question. The second one was not. It was then linked to the Vote Post. 2.and 3. Last time I am explaining this unless someone one new to the thread does not understand this. "no one has any information except for the mafia," Since this is a semi open game the knowledge of a PR and a VT is different. Pr knows that his respective role exists. Also we all have information through the posts. 4.So this actually makes sense why talking about blue would be bad day one. (Same logic applies for why we try to get scrum to speak on day one). But i do not think what i said was scummy. I think you said I was scummy then put a true statement after it to try and fool somebody. 5. I still do not understand this speculation idea. I do not think you understand me and are twisting my words a lot to hurt me. You also seem to be twisting 27nb's words a lot to protect her. You seemed to have missed the part where she mentions VT without the question mark. you never responded to this post. Also you seem to not understand the fact that pr have more info than VT. Also you keep highlighting the same thing i did but have you read what i wrote right after that. On June 17 2014 12:54 Snickers wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2014 12:44 Release wrote:
Not on day 1 and there is no point in talking about it on day 1.
I read it and it does not excuse illogical play. Regardless of 0/1/2 of 2 scum, you wish does not affect their roles. You soft retract your statement by saying it's a bad reason, but why say it in the first place if that is the case? ok start quoting because i have no clue what "it" is. It is a bad reason why? because we had such little information at the time. I was providing the most detail i could of why i thought 27nb was scum. It was a "long shot" but it still gave me another reason to. I do not understand two thirds of your above post. Why would I not say a bad reason. By bad reason i meant the game was probably going to end up with a lot better reasons for a scum. I am voting you know. I already showed multiple reasons why. ##Vote Release And admit that you are wrong about information. PR has more information than VT. This is a semi open game. PR know if his role exists. VT does not know if any or what PR exists. PR does not know if even one VT exists?(Do not know if this is 100% right because i am new) VT knows at least one VT exists. Both said VT and PR know there is three mafia. Knowing there is a pr is more info than knowing there is a VT. On June 17 2014 13:17 Snickers wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2014 13:05 Release wrote:
If you read the original situation in which the information is said, the information relates to 27nb calling out 3 purported mafia and YKZ saying she has less information. It pertains to knowing who and who isn't mafia, and in this case, VT and PR are equally informed (since it is day 1). Knowing there is a pr does not in any way help call out 3 mafia. Therefore it is the same and we should stop talking about PRs. limited does not equal less. Also you do have a point with at the very start of the game PR and VT have the same chance of randomly guessing mafia. But even on day one it could matter. If u were a cop and somebody claimed cop... for example.
Numbers = his bold statement (ie. 1 2 3 4)
1. Yes i was leaning 27nb but that was before a lot of posted and the people that did posted did not post much. So it was the very start of the game. I think I did not even vote for her. The person i voted for flipped scum today. Also i was saying how terrible it was to vote27nb after i had information from all players.
I support the kenpachi rule. It has merit(it has some value) I do not see where release thinks i support further discussion of it. He did not post the post but someone said they were sick of it but i said i still think it should be discussed but i understand how it could be repetitive. I think that release thinks i encouraged further discussion of it by saying how 27nb dismissed it(which she did, koshi is saying this is true but release is denying it i guess make your own decision) And i did say that only two people said what the kenpachi rule was. YKZ explained it in a lot of detail while 27nb did not have a good explanation of it. I wanted someone else to say what it was or if YKZ was talking nonsense. Nobody did so I am still assuming that is was the kenpachi rule is. Second time I am saying this but no one was saying the kenpachi rule was defined wrong they were saying it was being used wrong.
Release also posted to where i said the kenpachi rule was useless. That was my first post to a mafia game ever. I had very little knowledge of the game.(For example i knew the term lylo existed and it was a phase as the end of the game but I did not know it meant lynch or lose.) Then i gathered new info that no was refuting so i did see the merit in it. Notice how i comment on YKZ saying the kenpachi rule also works then said it almost always works. His knowledge of it did not change but he said different things. I said different things but my knowledge of it did change.
I do not understand where I represented information wrong. Also 27nb could say if YKZ was lynched it would be proven by the end of the day. Also release wants to throw in the scientific method bs. It is simply stated as the kenpachi rule has merit but is not 100% correct.
2. I still stand that i did not make an association with YKZ because of the information I posted after that. I guess you all can decide. I was saying another reason i would want to vote 27nb. That would of been a longshot.
3. I thought was release was scum and I made my own case on his. I did not follow Art's case on him. I thought release did have a good point until he did not even know that 27nb said vt twice before he vote post. I think sloosh but somebody said something like good job now somebody is actually reading the thread. I still believe releases whole post was just the same information we have and then a misleading or terrible new point in his case about vt. So either scum or terrible town. I also do not see how I flip flopped (Does this mean I went from one player to another?) I was slightly leaning 27nb, i never even voted for her. I was full blown for you day one. More than mderg. But i played like a team player and consolidated my post like somebody said that was normal so scum votes could not factor that much.
Now these numbers are going to be related to the third bold comments, second spoiler.
I never asked 27nb to die. I was saying how she could of said if she died she would show town and the kenpachi rule would be disproved or if YKZ was lynched and shown scum first day. Things like this is where i think release is either a terrible town or scum. He misreads the simplest of things.
1. Where i was proving to release that he missed that 27nb mentions vt twice before vote post.
2. and 3. Me and Release had a different definition so i think we were both right about that.
4. I agree that talking about blue roles is bad.(My information on the subject changed) I realized that it
is the same thing we do to find scum. I still never talked about who had which blue role. I was
talking about talking about blue roles. I still think this does not have a primary nature to help scum.
I guess you could say it could lead someone else to mention a role with a person.
5. This does not matter much now. Still confused about this.
So i thought release had a very good post because of his thread changing point of the vt thing but then I realize that and i still think that it was wrong because 27nb. says also or another when referring to vt claim. It looks even worst when release did not know a simple fact about how many times 27nb mentioned vt when the thread was small and it was his first post and he could reread. For some reason release thinks i was following art's case but i was not. I think maybe his case triggered my case. Also the two people that mentioned the timing. One of them was me.
4.Already mentioned blue talk. So far my "harping" w/e the hell that means. It sounds so negative. My "harping" or focusing on slight details was my main read on mderg the scum.(letters correspond with only some of the major harps that helped the game)
A. Mderg's comment about hopefully helping tomorrow. I think i was the first person to catch this.
B. Mderg's comment on how he said something that he did not actually say.
Both of these "harps" were accurately reading scum but release defended Mderg both time. I do not know this was because release thought i was misleading, like a scum should or If he wanted to defend Mderg for w/e reason (scum team or did not think he was scum)
I will Harp till the day I die. Cause so far it has led to my 100% lynch record. (no I did not vote for mderg the day he got lynched but I did the first day and I would have continued the second day If I knew(or saw) that people decided to vote him.
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On June 21 2014 12:51 VisceraEyes wrote:
Snickers is now probably town. But if he posts anymore I might reverse that read.
Care to elaborate. Also can you tell me what I am suppose to do now. I know I am taking a risk but i have a lot of free time now and will not tomorrow. Am i suppose to go back through the thread and try to find connections with mderg. Also am I suppose to look at the prior votes and their timings?
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So I guess i was suppose to reply to his posts in four different posts. Woops the Newbie is oozing out of me. Anyway you post more than me if you compare how much i was replying to versus how much you were replying to.
I think big posts get people's attention. I will most def make my posts bigger the next game I am in. I put a lot of effort into small posts that A. I do not think many people have read. B. Have not been commented on. I replied to releases whole case before he even made his "case" into one post. People probably will not remember all of those tiny posts. Now this huge post no one will forget. Also it helps me look at the whole case and reply with my own synergy. In hindsight, I should have posted all of my tiny posts reads on mderg into one big posts. I would do that for release but I do not think that would be the most efficient way to use my time. No one has answered me yet but I am almost 100% positive we are suppose to go back and look at mderg's filter and how people reacted with him.
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So I'm going to bed now. It looks like ykz is saying ve is doing scummy things.
Let me harp you by harping. Also can somebody define what ban wagon is for me. I think I'm going to be accused of it here.
I'm not 100 percent sure about all of this because I am on a phone so the rest of this post may be inaccurate slightly.
Ve first day posts did not harp town at all.
I am preatty sure ve was telling me not to harp since it led to him mislynching a lot. He was specifically referring to me harping mderg. Ve said he would provide details at 11 about something but never did. Then be told chezinu(I may be very wrong about the particular player) to get reads on somebody and he would read me then they would switch the next day. Still has not provided reads on me. Ve thought that I did not know 27nb was vt after lynch post. Now ve is talking about releases case on me. Let's all be honest here. I think release may be town and he is saying I am scum but he may actually think I am town. His case on me did not include anything from day 2 or night one. Let's say release is 100 percent town. His case on me is lacking three fifths if the game so I am assuming he had a bigger read on someone else. Ve thinks release is trying to push me now but I do not think so. I think release is just trying to prove me wrong for the same of him being right.
So ve seems disinterested in the game to me. In a way that mderg was . The only time he seemed interested was in defending mderg.
Now I am not calling ve scum. I am just showing my thoughts of one out of eight players.
I will for sure harp town tomorrow by harping some more. I need to review the thread with the new info. I do not think filter diving is the best way to read scum so I will do it the tedious way. I am scared of nighttime. Keep think vigilante or mafia will kill me. Atleast maybe there is no vigilante.
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On June 21 2014 19:02 slOosh wrote:+ Show Spoiler +So I'm typing this up around 4:30am ... b/c stupid dota tilting ... so excuse any typos or whatever I'm gonna be slightly lenient on the editing. My day 1 interpretation was wrong. Mderg is scum, so D1 looks different. D1 Lynch: 27ninjabunnies the Vanilla Townie has died to lynch!Final Vote Count - Day 1: 27ninjabunnies (7): YouKnowZhou, Artanis[Xp], mderg, Chezinu, Koshi, slOosh, goodkarmaYouKnowZhou (1): Release mderg (4): Snickers, VisceraEyes, 27ninjabunnies, Lazermonkey
27ninjabunnies is lynched with 7 votes! Ok nvm I don't know how to do vote analysis. Crap. UHhh Right things that stick out D1: Snickers calls out mderg first I think, before anyone else. VE follows up. Artanis doesn't like it. Snicker joins, Lazer odesn't like so he backs off, I don't like so I back off. On June 18 2014 04:35 Chezinu wrote:
##UnVote
##Vote: mderg
Art it is time to have some fun! Let's do this!!! This post makes lots of sense here in hindsight. I move to VE, Lazer joins me. YKZ comes in and asks a summary of mderg case couple times. On June 18 2014 05:33 Kurumi wrote:Vote Count - Day 1: mderg (3): VisceraEyes, Lazermonkey, Chezinu, Snickers 27ninjabunnies (2): YouKnowZhou, Lazermonkey, mderg VisceraEyes (2): Lazermonkey, slOosh YouKnowZhou (1): 27ninjabunnies, Release, goodkarmaKoshi (1): Artanis[Xp] Release (0): Artanis[Xp], SnickersArtanis[Xp] (0): slOoshCurrently Not Voting (3): goodkarma, Koshi, 27ninjabunnies,
Currently mderg is set to be lynched with 3 votes! Day will end in
Ok, scum probably starting to feel the heat here? On June 18 2014 05:38 mderg wrote:
Also, what the hell is it with Chezinu? He doesn´t even try to make sense. Chezinu rule? Chezinu rule. Artanis not liking these votes, goes on Koshi. I'm still gungho on VE. Stuff stuff stuff. Ultimately on page 18 Artanis town reads mderg and YKZ makes a bigger push on bunnies. I townread mderg here too. Maybe I'll pick up on this after getting proper sleep.
I did not call him out first (two people did before me) but I think I was the first person to do a passable analysis on him rather than just say "the above post if filled with scum. therefore my vote is ......"
Replying to release here. Yea i still do not have a definition of ban wagon. I think one of the criteria is to not show new scummy points in a player and just vote for them with the ones already out. Never voted for 27nb and voted for mderg after giving new information. Also I was the first person to vote mderg and stay with it all day one. I was in class but i had a 15 minute break to at least read a few posts and change my vote. Yesterday i had work. I was still wanting to vote mderg but i saw no support after day one lynch. So i consolidated my post just like day one. I think maybe you think i am ban wagoning because i consolidate early, but I have been busy around vote times. Guess what, Sunday i have work so it will be like yesterday. Wednesday I have class if this game is still going by then.
Also this needs to be said. VE was not telling me not to vote mderg because of how many mislynches he did from "bad town play". That was LazerMonkey. I saw people were thinking he may be scummy and he also understand this.
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On June 21 2014 18:54 Release wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 21 2014 11:47 Snickers wrote:--snip--
Numbers = his bold statement (ie. 1 2 3 4)
1. Yes i was leaning 27nb but that was before a lot of posted and the people that did posted did not post much. So it was the very start of the game. I think I did not even vote for her. The person i voted for flipped scum today. Also i was saying how terrible it was to vote27nb after i had information from all players.
I support the kenpachi rule. It has merit(it has some value) I do not see where release thinks i support further discussion of it. He did not post the post but someone said they were sick of it but i said i still think it should be discussed but i understand how it could be repetitive. I think that release thinks i encouraged further discussion of it by saying how 27nb dismissed it(which she did, koshi is saying this is true but release is denying it i guess make your own decision) And i did say that only two people said what the kenpachi rule was. YKZ explained it in a lot of detail while 27nb did not have a good explanation of it. I wanted someone else to say what it was or if YKZ was talking nonsense. Nobody did so I am still assuming that is was the kenpachi rule is. Second time I am saying this but no one was saying the kenpachi rule was defined wrong they were saying it was being used wrong.
Release also posted to where i said the kenpachi rule was useless. That was my first post to a mafia game ever. I had very little knowledge of the game.(For example i knew the term lylo existed and it was a phase as the end of the game but I did not know it meant lynch or lose.) Then i gathered new info that no was refuting so i did see the merit in it. Notice how i comment on YKZ saying the kenpachi rule also works then said it almost always works. His knowledge of it did not change but he said different things. I said different things but my knowledge of it did change.
I do not understand where I represented information wrong. Also 27nb could say if YKZ was lynched it would be proven by the end of the day. Also release wants to throw in the scientific method bs. It is simply stated as the kenpachi rule has merit but is not 100% correct.
2. I still stand that i did not make an association with YKZ because of the information I posted after that. I guess you all can decide. I was saying another reason i would want to vote 27nb. That would of been a longshot.
3. I thought was release was scum and I made my own case on his. I did not follow Art's case on him. I thought release did have a good point until he did not even know that 27nb said vt twice before he vote post. I think sloosh but somebody said something like good job now somebody is actually reading the thread. I still believe releases whole post was just the same information we have and then a misleading or terrible new point in his case about vt. So either scum or terrible town. I also do not see how I flip flopped (Does this mean I went from one player to another?) I was slightly leaning 27nb, i never even voted for her. I was full blown for you day one. More than mderg. But i played like a team player and consolidated my post like somebody said that was normal so scum votes could not factor that much.
Now these numbers are going to be related to the third bold comments, second spoiler.
I never asked 27nb to die. I was saying how she could of said if she died she would show town and the kenpachi rule would be disproved or if YKZ was lynched and shown scum first day. Things like this is where i think release is either a terrible town or scum. He misreads the simplest of things.
1. Where i was proving to release that he missed that 27nb mentions vt twice before vote post.
2. and 3. Me and Release had a different definition so i think we were both right about that.
4. I agree that talking about blue roles is bad.(My information on the subject changed) I realized that it
is the same thing we do to find scum. I still never talked about who had which blue role. I was
talking about talking about blue roles. I still think this does not have a primary nature to help scum.
I guess you could say it could lead someone else to mention a role with a person.
5. This does not matter much now. Still confused about this.
So i thought release had a very good post because of his thread changing point of the vt thing but then I realize that and i still think that it was wrong because 27nb. says also or another when referring to vt claim. It looks even worst when release did not know a simple fact about how many times 27nb mentioned vt when the thread was small and it was his first post and he could reread. For some reason release thinks i was following art's case but i was not. I think maybe his case triggered my case. Also the two people that mentioned the timing. One of them was me.
4.Already mentioned blue talk. So far my "harping" w/e the hell that means. It sounds so negative. My "harping" or focusing on slight details was my main read on mderg the scum.(letters correspond with only some of the major harps that helped the game)
A. Mderg's comment about hopefully helping tomorrow. I think i was the first person to catch this.
B. Mderg's comment on how he said something that he did not actually say.
Both of these "harps" were accurately reading scum but release defended Mderg both time. I do not know this was because release thought i was misleading, like a scum should or If he wanted to defend Mderg for w/e reason (scum team or did not think he was scum)
I will Harp till the day I die. Cause so far it has led to my 100% lynch record. (no I did not vote for mderg the day he got lynched but I did the first day and I would have continued the second day If I knew(or saw) that people decided to vote him.
3rd spoiler: "Also sloosh thanks for posting. I think this kenpachi rule should still be discussed a little more, but I see where you think we should stop the seeming rigmarole." @ " I do not see where release thinks i support further discussion of it" @2 Fantastic as in literally fantasy. Pointless. @3 That is misrep. of info. 27nb did made not even close to the depth or breadth of indictment that I made. ---- @2/3/4 don't see how that was supposed to help us. When 27nb initially said not to speculate whether blue or not, that should have been the last meniton of blue discussion Day 1. It's the bandwagon nature of flipping only after someone else has made accusations. @4 I disagree. In the end, Mderg's voting timing/pattern is what ultimately got him lynched. Those were not particularly indicative. Just because he flipped mafia does not make every single line of his posts indicative of mafia. + Show Spoiler +For example, yesterday, YKZ was helpful, but I still expect him to flip mafia Also, harp: "To talk or write about to an excessive and tedious degree; dwell on." It's just another word. Show nested quote +On June 21 2014 17:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Snickers stop spending so much goddamn time defending yourself, you're confirmed town.
5 bonus points to the person who knows why. Care to elaborate?
See this is where I think Release is either scum or bad town. He is still only pushing me with day one things. All of which I have explained multiple times and he still seems on my ass more than trying to understand. He does not comment on night one or day two in respect to me. He may be such a bad town he just misinterprets anything someone says because of his emotion(bias).
This would be like if I continued to push 27nb day one because she was saying she was iffy on me. No I stopped pushing her as soon as somebody else was doing scummy things that were of more value and she started doing townie things. You may have voted for mderg this round but I think your vote still landed on me sometime.
Also the people above this post. If you are going to use he or his or w/e try to quote what he said or his point. It would lead to less confusion. Maybe even just say I am talking about 27nb.
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On June 22 2014 07:05 YouKnowZhou wrote:
And you can criticize me all you want for lying about mderg to get him lynched, but as always, the ends justify the means. People claim I'm not a town leader, but the town lynches who I want to lynch, so clearly I am in charge here. I am willing to lie, willing to sell my soul, willing to call you guys bad or good or say anything, whatever it takes, to push my lynch. I don't care what you think of me. That whole "oh, i'm getting lynched anyways so let's talk" thing was in part to leave behind something in case I got lynched, but it was ALSO mostly because I wanted to not get lynched and to get mderg lynched, and I know you guys are all suckers for the "helpful martyr" strategy. I did it mostly because it helped me lynch mderg.
I'd do it again, too, and you should all be glad I would. There's nothing I won't do to win this game.
Yes this makes sense because mafia cannot vote. I would like to bring back my point in principles. Sloosh has been saying that YKZ made a case on mderg because mafia knew one of them was going to die(ie. YKZ) so they let one die but got a lot of suspicion off of another. Mderg almost got voted day one and i was still razing him day one before YKZ's first "case" which was really just my case from day one posted a little differently.
Now back to principles. The only reason scum would claim Vt would be to get an initial slight disadvantage that could become a big advantage. The principle is slight disadvantage but big reward. Think of the power ball or big lottery games with big money low chances. YKZ did that day two. initial disadvantage of throwing mderg away (it was not a 100% thing that YKZ was going to be lynched) but now the huge reward (YKZ) looks a lot less scummy.
Not saying that YKZ is scum but I did not think anyone else would point this out. Extremely important that YKZ only started to go for mderg after my catch on his slip of saying he said something that he did not actually say.
We all need to keep YKZ may (has a good chance) of being scum for the rest of the game. People have been putting good cases against Lm.
Also remember sloosh is the one that is calling out YKZ here but someone thought sloosh looked scummy.
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On June 22 2014 07:23 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2014 07:15 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 22 2014 07:05 slOosh wrote:On June 22 2014 06:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
slOosh, what's your current read on Release? Read him town on D1 since his first post as the first careful reading of the bunnies / YKZ interaction. D2 looks great as he was involved in discussions and has mentioned his thoughts on each of the relevant wagons as they developed. I still have trouble reading him because of the lack of interaction though, and I don't like how he's still going after Snickers who is pretty much confirmed town. His filter is pretty difficult to read through but I guess he ended up on the right wagon so I can't be too critical. The thing is that Snickers indeed was poking him for the longest time, so it's not too unnatural for him to still carry the suspicion of him. The voting thing, I didn't get until you / Koshi pointed it out, and the conversation wasn't too fleshed out so all in all nothing too alarming.
I think it is weird that release is still going after. Why? He did not add anything to his case from night one or day two to go after me. Also you said you read him as town day one, but his first post in the game was just misreading 27nb and he admits to it.(Another or Also is the word she said) and just restating what we already knew of 27nb.
Like I have said multiple times i think he is scum or bad town (actually I know he is either scum or bad town/pr.)
Also just calling that I am probably going to be targeted tonight.
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On June 22 2014 08:56 Release wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 21 2014 21:43 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2014 21:14 Koshi wrote:
Artanis probably meant the mderg vote. If it brought Snickers in the lead it looks pretty good for Snickers. Snickers was on mderg his ass so mderg might have gotten greedy. Mderg didnt move to bh when he could, so why move to a teammate?
I am back condemned to phone posting for today.
My fav lynch for tomorrkw is VE or lazermonkey. I agree that the vote put it him the spotlight but it was so obviously extremely strange. I dont see why town would do it. Ding ding ding, we have a winner. I think your lynch targets are bad though. Also, the town reasoning should be obvious; he thought YKZ was more scummy than mderg, so he tried to get YKZ lynched. What Koshi said is slightly confusing so one of you please explain like I'm 5. The way that Koshi explains it, it sounds like BH is Mderg's mafia teammate? + Show Spoiler +On June 21 2014 21:53 Snickers wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2014 19:02 slOosh wrote:+ Show Spoiler +So I'm typing this up around 4:30am ... b/c stupid dota tilting ... so excuse any typos or whatever I'm gonna be slightly lenient on the editing. My day 1 interpretation was wrong. Mderg is scum, so D1 looks different. D1 Lynch: 27ninjabunnies the Vanilla Townie has died to lynch!Final Vote Count - Day 1: 27ninjabunnies (7): YouKnowZhou, Artanis[Xp], mderg, Chezinu, Koshi, slOosh, goodkarmaYouKnowZhou (1): Release mderg (4): Snickers, VisceraEyes, 27ninjabunnies, Lazermonkey
27ninjabunnies is lynched with 7 votes! Ok nvm I don't know how to do vote analysis. Crap. UHhh Right things that stick out D1: Snickers calls out mderg first I think, before anyone else. VE follows up. Artanis doesn't like it. Snicker joins, Lazer odesn't like so he backs off, I don't like so I back off. On June 18 2014 04:35 Chezinu wrote:
##UnVote
##Vote: mderg
Art it is time to have some fun! Let's do this!!! This post makes lots of sense here in hindsight. I move to VE, Lazer joins me. YKZ comes in and asks a summary of mderg case couple times. On June 18 2014 05:33 Kurumi wrote:Vote Count - Day 1: mderg (3): VisceraEyes, Lazermonkey, Chezinu, Snickers 27ninjabunnies (2): YouKnowZhou, Lazermonkey, mderg VisceraEyes (2): Lazermonkey, slOosh YouKnowZhou (1): 27ninjabunnies, Release, goodkarmaKoshi (1): Artanis[Xp] Release (0): Artanis[Xp], SnickersArtanis[Xp] (0): slOoshCurrently Not Voting (3): goodkarma, Koshi, 27ninjabunnies,
Currently mderg is set to be lynched with 3 votes! Day will end in
Ok, scum probably starting to feel the heat here? On June 18 2014 05:38 mderg wrote:
Also, what the hell is it with Chezinu? He doesn´t even try to make sense. Chezinu rule? Chezinu rule. Artanis not liking these votes, goes on Koshi. I'm still gungho on VE. Stuff stuff stuff. Ultimately on page 18 Artanis town reads mderg and YKZ makes a bigger push on bunnies. I townread mderg here too. Maybe I'll pick up on this after getting proper sleep. I did not call him out first (two people did before me) but I think I was the first person to do a passable analysis on him rather than just say "the above post if filled with scum. therefore my vote is ......" Replying to release here. Yea i still do not have a definition of ban wagon. I think one of the criteria is to not show new scummy points in a player and just vote for them with the ones already out. Never voted for 27nb and voted for mderg after giving new information. Also I was the first person to vote mderg and stay with it all day one. I was in class but i had a 15 minute break to at least read a few posts and change my vote. Yesterday i had work. I was still wanting to vote mderg but i saw no support after day one lynch. So i consolidated my post just like day one. I think maybe you think i am ban wagoning because i consolidate early, but I have been busy around vote times. Guess what, Sunday i have work so it will be like yesterday. Wednesday I have class if this game is still going by then. Also this needs to be said. VE was not telling me not to vote mderg because of how many mislynches he did from "bad town play". That was LazerMonkey. I saw people were thinking he may be scummy and he also understand this. The point is quickly becoming moot (and we are displeasing the Artanis) so I will leave with this: I still find you suspicious. Afk day 2 is the key recent point. However, considering only 2 mafia left, I think that YKZ and Lazer(pending Artanis/Koshi confirmed town explanation), are more suspicious at this moment. I agree with what SloOsh says about Lazer, except that I think Lazer played a very good Day 1, and a somewhat decent Day 2 that went to trash at the end. YKZ makes another promise so I'll think I'll wait to form a more firm opinion for now. For my reads, not too much has changed except Lazer has climbed into mafia candidate territory, VE is also slowly climbing back into mafia candidate territory, and Snickers has climbed out a little bit. YKZ remains. A lot of this still pending explanations.
lol. A "little bit" damn this guy is not even trying to annoying like chezinu and YKZ but he still is. Also I did not afk day two. I afked 3 in a half hours before vote cause i had work. I was here just did not contribute a lot. Not much was posted before I had to go to work.
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On June 21 2014 08:24 Release wrote:
Ok for some reason, YKZ is still being lynched today which is not correct.
For that:
##Unvote
##Vote Mderg
If we end up lynching YKZ and he is shown mafia, lets not forget this gem.
Anyway if you want to treat yourself to some good laughs on this victorious day please read release's filter.
If he is shown town when this game is over, I should make a thread just showing how many times he was objectively wrong but still somehow thinks he is right.
On a more serious note, i do not think it would be possible to be town and lie that much.
And yea VE you should really explain why those people are not being voted today, not just type it.
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On June 22 2014 10:19 Release wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2014 18:56 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
No Release, I'm desperate to give someone bonus points. Now stop focussing on Snickers, he's not scum. Your attention is better suited for just about anyone that isn't me/snickers/lazer. Show nested quote +On June 21 2014 21:43 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 21 2014 21:14 Koshi wrote:
Artanis probably meant the mderg vote. If it brought Snickers in the lead it looks pretty good for Snickers. Snickers was on mderg his ass so mderg might have gotten greedy. Mderg didnt move to bh when he could, so why move to a teammate?
I am back condemned to phone posting for today.
My fav lynch for tomorrkw is VE or lazermonkey. I agree that the vote put it him the spotlight but it was so obviously extremely strange. I dont see why town would do it. Ding ding ding, we have a winner. I think your lynch targets are bad though. Also, the town reasoning should be obvious; he thought YKZ was more scummy than mderg, so he tried to get YKZ lynched. Please explain like I'm 5 why Snickers (and you and lazer) were supposed to be confirmed town. Also, why lazer is no longer in such a position.
So Release, you believe you get special treatment. Why would that be so. Please enlighten me Mr. Objective. Or why should we accept you as town. Also who's filter do you want me to read.
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Ve why did you think I was scum day two.
Also I am not going to look at ykzs filter because I have been following his posts closely. Also i think the idea of mafia sacking someone day two should be looked into. I could also see ykz making one wrong move and everybody voting for him. I think there is still a good chance he is scum especially if the sacking is true because of my principles. Even if I think somebody is more scum, getting ykz out of this thread equals me less annoyed and less confusion overall. Also I would say town is far ahead and I think lynching ykz would not let us get played hard. Ie. we are ahead better to play safe than try to end this quickly.
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Went through all the filters of people still remaining. Here is a quick breakdown. Will only state what I think there alignment is.
Chezinu, Town
VisceraEyes, Scum
Ykz, Town
Lazer Monkey, Town
Release, Town
Artanis,Town
Koshi, Town
Sloosh, Town
So Heavily and I mean more than mderg day two (not as much as release day one, but i think i was misreading him). I am thinking that VisceraEyes is scum. I will be busy tomorrow with work etc but i will come on before or around 3pm. Eastern time USA. Do you guys want me to make a huge case on him? Also, can a few people comment on the voting situation. (a few aka more than two since two could be scum) YKZ already did, (Thank you) ( But i think we should aim for about four)
Also I have said that I think somebody is Town up there, but I actually think they are scum. I really do not want to say who, or why but I will say why if I am pressured a lot and after some time.
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I am about to go to bed. What is that notice I hear. Duh dun... Duh dun.... Duh dun..... It sounds like a shark is about to get a second meal.
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My case on Viscera Eyes (First number is the page of his filter, second number is post of that page from 1 to 20)
ie. 8.15 is page 8, post 15. Also i will reference back to my relative post by (My.1.11) =read this post at 1.11.
1.4 This is scummy for obvious reasons.
1.5 VE might try to say he was trolling here, but he did not give examples why he thinks 27nb is super town based on what she is saying and arguing. Also this post is back and forth, something I think scum is prone to.
1.8 VE does not offer direct support for his feeling on Release.
1.9 Details at 11 but never gave us any worthwhile details. Also goodkarma questioned him on page 13 for it.
1.11 Now someone is pressuring so he posts one that has terrible points on why Sloosh if mafia. Especially If you look at what he has done so far compared to what he think sloosh has done. He also votes mderg here but saying it is mainly because he only voted once so far. This is because scum was probably planing for an easy switch off mderg. Why did he not provide examples of mderg here with quotes when he was voting him? Explain why its diplomatic. Explain why you think its scummy. The only thing we could of read into was if it was wishywashy. This post was right after my post on mderg at the bottom of page 13. I first said he was wishy washy and also commented on how he was leaning towards one post. He also says he will not read YKZ day one. This is very scummy. He says "as always" but why not give us a reason. Why would you not read BH if he does something super scummy. I think VE was wanting to let the 27nb lynch go through. He never even mentions 27nb in this post.
Note. I will reference this later as 1.11.
1.12 Maybe because you told us your end results without showing how you got there.
1.15 This post is just weird. First off the "There're real" and defends himself with talking about how he has this trait when scum or town. So its scummy from the exacting wording that i quoted. I think Sloosh was more implying that they were so short and unsupported. But he says they are real as a response to sloosh is thinking they are fake. So VE defends himself when scum but does not push the game further.He does that later.
1.20 So mderg is saying things in the spoiler that looks like Ve is town. I do not know exactly what to make of this. I think this would be an example VE would go back to defend himself. VE though In this post he takes my case on mderg(this post happened after day one) and is acting like it is his own. But for some reason he does not talk about the diplomatic nature of it now. (My.1.11) Why is that? He never even mentioned he thought it but not as strongly now like his case on Sloosh. This is an inconsistency. He does not know if mderg said maybe or hopefully. This shows the phrase is not in his head as much he is claiming it to be for his vote. This is scummy to me.
2.1 He claims he did give reasoning for mderg being mafia, but does not quote where he did it. Also the only thing worthwhile(his first post where he voted mderg and gave reads on a lot of people does not count in my eyes) was when he copying my case on mderg, which was after the lynch? Why make your case almost a case after the lynch, not before.
2.3 Do not want to go into super detail here, but lets look at it overall. Posted this after day one. Bad timing. Also I think his points are half rehash, and half pointless(do not show scum). He quotes that mderg part because he want us to see it later on. While he is defending himself, he want us to assume a lot of things and just accept them. He talks about YKZ here because he thinks we will all vote him instead of mderg on day two. He wants to easily transition into YKZ. "I think he might be mafia" is scummy to me.
2.6 Says he should solidify his reads on me and LazerMoneky this cycle.
2.9 Says he is currently thinking YKZ and mderg then votes YKZ without even mentioning mderg.
2.13 VE does not give reasons why he is town. Tells us conclusion on YKZ but not how he got to them. This is showing how he is just bandwagoning YKZ. So he says he will read me and tells somebody else to read Lazermonkey.
2.15 This was after I said Chezinu's encryption was a hassle. I think he is just trying to cause confusion here.
2.18 Barking orders again with "Make him tell you why he is doing it" . Mentions that i disappeared again but still no reads and is defending himself again (1.15)
3.2 Seems like a weird reason. If people like to case maybe somebody would have time to see if it is actually true he thinks people on YKZ are more town than people on mderg. I think this is scummy.
3.4 Mentions some people on which trains. So still has not solidify his reads on me (because he would have posted them). Also i think this was getting ready to lynch me after he mislynched YKZ.
3.5 Flips out emotionally, does this later on when i say i think he is scum. So YKZ is talking about lynching me and VE does not really even comment on how that could relate to me being scum or town even thought he "thinks" YKZ i scum. Also I think he does not comment on me being scum since i was pushing mderg and he knows I am town.
3.10 This is very scummy. Why not make a solid case on YKZ like VE did on mderg. This is because he does not actually believe YKZ is scum he is just faking it. But he does want us to believe he is thinking mderg is scum.
3.11 Trying to sway town into thinking he is town leader when really me and YKZ did 1000x more than what he did to get mderg lynched. (actually he did nothing be rehash me case)
3.13 He is scum on me but still has no case on me. Also does not even talking about reads on me, I think one in the entire thread so far?
3.14 says that I am probably town.
3.15 Offering excuses as to why he has not read me yet but is setting himself up to follow release in lynching me. But if he actually read release's case on me he would notice that release was not being 100% serious. Me and release were still arguing about solely day one stuff into night two(i think night two, point is we made it matter as much as it did day one without looking at new info). I think town would of point out release only had points from day one.
3.16 Probably another set up to jump on the Snickers bandwagon tomorrow. Also being friendly to YKZ since he was on me, just like release. Also everybody go read goodkarma's filter now. Good karma was killing because he was on VE's ass.
If my memory seres me right, he was the only one that was doing this. VE and whoever did not kill me because i was looking more scummy than goodkarma. Also three (assuming VE is scum and Lazermonkey is town) towns voted for mderg.
3.17 VE is wishy washy to the max.
3.18 I would say Ve has no worthwhile explanations. Just fake explanations that others have already contributed but line up with proving he is town.
3.19 He wants us to think there is a vigilante when there is a possibility there is not one. This is so later he can say vigilante chose not to kill me even when I said it would help town. He is wanting us to assume things like in (My.2.3)
4.1 Ok you were on mderg day one so we are all going to think you are town? So then why do you think I am scum at this point after (My.3.16) He add and "and" into this so I have to disprove the second part. VE wants us to assume ( he wants us to assume a lot) he was obviously fine with an mderg lynch. But he did nothing to push mderg but what I did and he is ultimately voting YKZ.
4.2 No explanation to why I am not scum anymore. Still did not read me.
4.3 Wants people to start commenting on this so more will see etc, when if anyone actually looks at goodkarma's filter you will see that simply he was lynched for calling out VE. Here is more details (My.3.16)
4.5 Yea but who said it first, Ve or goodkarma. Ve just wants to look town as hell here.
4.6 Totally retracts thinking that I am scum even though he was mentioning all game. This is because I look townie as hell right now. "I said I did but it was a mistake" So VE was making the same mistake all game long.
4.7 So will go by this sentence by sentence.
First sentence. Is trying to make me assume something
Second sentence. Again wants me to assume he has explained everything he has done and said when really nothing he has done is tied with an explanation. VE is scared here because of how early I got mderg.
Third sentence. I was suspicious before VE said anything about mderg. He hoped on right after me not adding anything to the case. This is him trying to defend himself as scum by making it look like he did something. I would of been on mderg's ass either way.
fourth sentence. Yea it is scant I do not like it. Yes it is transparent it is easy for me to see the scum in you. I really do not see where this sentence is useful. Has the same job as the second sentence. Repeats himself in an attempt to make me assume something that is not true.
fifth sentence. I do not know exactly what tunnel is, but I am not tunneling if it means following someone else's suspicion. Refers back to bh because he thinks bh is what we all will easily consolidate on and just forget about him
sixth sentence. Yea you think I look townie because i look townie to everyone now if they look at what has happened. Also he says "but if not then I really need you to know that I'm town here." He is still scared of me getting mderg. He needs me to know he is town so i do not make a case on him This is scummy.
seventh sentence. I was not talking myself into mafia. Ve is just trying to get on my good side.
4.8 Ve currently thinks sloosh is scum here ( i think). He does not push the game forward at all here.
Overall look at how much posts of VE's are objectively useless to helping town. Then look at how much are very useless but still have a little help.
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On June 21 2014 08:20 mderg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2014 08:01 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
mderg, does the fact that no one other than Chezinu scumread VE after his case on you not give you pause to re-evaluate VE's lynch or ask questions about why other people aren't scumreading him? Why do you not care about your main scumread getting lynched and only drop in to vote for an easy lynch on Snickers now? I honestly never thought about asking why people are not scumreading him. I don´t think I´ve done something like that in any game so far. I really don´t think someone who has a convincing reason to not scumread someone would just keep quiet about it when a case is made. It´s not that I don´t care but I don´t think there´s any way he´s getting lynched today and he also didn´t post much of value today. So it´s impossible to bring anything new to the table.I also don´t think this is a vote for an easy lynch because it´s still kinda close between Snickers and bh and I think my vote may actually be of relevance. As scum it would probably be easier to just afk for the rest of the day and let the lynch progress, unless bh and me were both scum. Also @ bh: I never voted a townread.
Forgot some of my case.
Ok so I am very tired because of my first post on this case so I will try to explain mderg's filter later on but for now look look at these bolds.
1.mderg scum slipped alot and i think "honestly" is another one. Also tried to save his ass here by talking about meta.
2. Helps my point on bold three.
3.VE was effectively afking since he did not post much of value. In reality he did not post anything of value.
Overall if you read mdergs filter, It looks like VE is townie. But i think when you read VE's filter he look super scum and that mderg's post where to try and save his ass later on.
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Would do you guys mean? Like what YKZ did for 27nb? I figured people could just have his filter open. Also forgot to mention that early when I said i think someone was scummy even though i said they were town, I looked into him and his votes seem very town so. Also If you look at VE's votes they look scummy to me, especially the timings.
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.... I specifically said what makes him scum.
4 lines? Lol I would say that is a weak case when we are 45 pages into the game.
If you really want four lines here it is.
Ve has multiple times taken credit for things he has not done and has not pushed the thread forward with his own original posts. Also his interaction with mderg seems to be a set up to prove he is town.
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On June 23 2014 05:19 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2014 05:03 Snickers wrote:
.... I specifically said what makes him scum.
4 lines? Lol I would say that is a weak case when we are 45 pages into the game.
If you really want four lines here it is.
Ve has multiple times taken credit for things he has not done and has not pushed the thread forward with his own original posts. Also his interaction with mderg seems to be a set up to prove he is town.
If you think wordiness is what makes a case strong or weak you have a lot to learn about this game. Syllogism himself mentioned somehing similar and he's considered possibly the best town player of TL. The idea is that you have to have a very concrete reason for why someone is scum, the rest is just supporting evidence and not quite as important. It's those four lines that you push your case on and elaborate when you have the attention of others. You've mentioned three things: -Taking credit for things he hasn't done -Hasn't pushed the thread forward with his own original posts -His interaction with mderg seems to be a set up to prove he is town. I can now assess whether I agree with that read by going through his filter myself, and I can consider if I think those things make VE scum. I'll do that later.
Never said wordiness is what makes a case strong. Was saying that evidence makes a case strong. Also you are assuming town are good in this game. I am thinking town is bad this game. Why is that? The terrible mislynch on 27nb day one. I already explained why this is so. My read on you before my "case" post w/e you want to call it was bad town. Thank you for reassuring my point. Also my read through everyone's filter showed a lot of bad towns.
Also i went through his filter and also check multiple times where it was relative to the thread. So i think going through someone's filter is good if you are trying to get an idea but make sure you see where it is relative to the thread. I did this for you but do it yourself if you are self reliant, skeptical or whatever it may be.
Also I will not have much time from now til lynch to contribute new things but i will try to contribute to what is being said. Anyway the lynch time for tomorrow is now 9:30 Eastern time USA. So i will be active around 30 minutes before. I have class from 6 to 7:45 for a test then an hour commute home.
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Half answered your question already koshi. Look at my post right before your post.
Whatever art how about actually respond to what I said instead of just yell over me. And yea I think people will find it useful.
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Lol release is still saying he thinks I'm scum even though his "case" mentions nothing except day one.
Lol at whoever called koshi a terrible town. I like when he suggested me release and somebody as scum with the reasoning that scum never vote together. He also did something else terribly but I forget and am on a phone.
Artanis is herby referred to as name dropper by yours truly Mr.Harp.
And somebody said I was a candidate or something for day one. No I was not nobody even voted for me. Also nobody was pushing like 27nb or ykz. Or how I was pushing mderg.
Also ve I pointed out where u took credit for something you did not do. Maybe in an hour I can provide a short post with a clear example since it seems that people that play mafia have short attention spans.
And koshi the other half of why I did not vote for ve is because there is somebody besides himself that is scum. At this point in time I would consolidate on koshi chezinu release ykz and ve. Obviously some I would say he may be scum but she is more likely to be scum etc.
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On June 23 2014 05:47 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2014 05:36 Snickers wrote:On June 23 2014 05:19 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 23 2014 05:03 Snickers wrote:
.... I specifically said what makes him scum.
4 lines? Lol I would say that is a weak case when we are 45 pages into the game.
If you really want four lines here it is.
Ve has multiple times taken credit for things he has not done and has not pushed the thread forward with his own original posts. Also his interaction with mderg seems to be a set up to prove he is town.
If you think wordiness is what makes a case strong or weak you have a lot to learn about this game. Syllogism himself mentioned somehing similar and he's considered possibly the best town player of TL. The idea is that you have to have a very concrete reason for why someone is scum, the rest is just supporting evidence and not quite as important. It's those four lines that you push your case on and elaborate when you have the attention of others. You've mentioned three things: -Taking credit for things he hasn't done -Hasn't pushed the thread forward with his own original posts -His interaction with mderg seems to be a set up to prove he is town. I can now assess whether I agree with that read by going through his filter myself, and I can consider if I think those things make VE scum. I'll do that later. Never said wordiness is what makes a case strong. Was saying that evidence makes a case strong. Also you are assuming town are good in this game. I am thinking town is bad this game. Why is that? The terrible mislynch on 27nb day one. I already explained why this is so. My read on you before my "case" post w/e you want to call it was bad town. Thank you for reassuring my point. Also my read through everyone's filter showed a lot of bad towns. Also i went through his filter and also check multiple times where it was relative to the thread. So i think going through someone's filter is good if you are trying to get an idea but make sure you see where it is relative to the thread. I did this for you but do it yourself if you are self reliant, skeptical or whatever it may be. Also I will not have much time from now til lynch to contribute new things but i will try to contribute to what is being said. Anyway the lynch time for tomorrow is now 9:30 Eastern time USA. So i will be active around 30 minutes before. I have class from 6 to 7:45 for a test then an hour commute home. That you said that 4 lines can't be a good case attests to the fact that you're looking for the wrong things in cases. I also don't think you're in a position to call anyone bad in this game, least of all me. Your case is not a case, but a description of VE's filter that is fa r too tiresome and presumptuous to be of any use. Perhaps VE is scum. Perhaps he's not. Your case doesn't help me and I doubt it'll help anyone.
I would really like you to explain the first bold part. I think I am in the position to call people bad in this game as long as I add on "if he or she is town.". I was not one of the people who "mislynched" 27nb day one. That would be you(if you are town). The person i voted day one was scum.
So are you going to read my whole "case"? I really hope VE does not fool you by claiming stuff he did first when my posts came before him.
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Release can you comment on Lazer Monkey's posting? I think somebody already did but I would like to hear your thoughts.
Also when you say "guys" whoever else thought that Sloosh was mafia. That seems really suspicious.
Also Release can you comment on the goodkarma kill? Do you even think it has merit?
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Woops not posting, I meant voting. So I do not want to post a one liner but I do not have anything else to say.
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On June 23 2014 12:33 YouKnowZhou wrote:tl;dr VE is scum, for reasons I outlined earlier. Let's lynch him. So, I made some noises (link) about the possibility of VE being town earlier. However, having taken a look a the facts, I do not believe the fact that VE backed off from me should significantly impact my read on him. I initially thought the backing-off may be deserving of a townread since a scum VE could potentially get me lynched with effort, and the "fake anger" strategy was working well. However, I believe I was selling short how good a job I had done of appearing co-operative. I had made it so even a scum VE would have to tone down the anger, would have to not ratchet things up and continue yelling at me. I'm going to refer to my end-of-day case here, so please read it: (link). VE has not since responded to it, and I'm going to address his semi-responses and cast a vote on VE. I'm also going to talk about the posts he has made since I made that post, at the very last moments of the night. The relevant part is here: Show nested quote +On June 22 2014 08:59 YouKnowZhou wrote:3. VE should not be left off the hook. Remember, during the time when I was trying to get in a last set of reads (sorta) before getting lynched, when I was chipping in an we were having real discussion? Suddenly, VE is "angry" http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/458796-normal-mini-mafia-lvi?page=33#651 and afks until right before the deadline. I explain how VE's actions during the last few hours of D2 are pretty clearly scum-motivated here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/458796-normal-mini-mafia-lvi?page=38#758 . His response is here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/458796-normal-mini-mafia-lvi?page=39#762Take a look at how he responds. He talks about sloosh looking good, and leaves out the fact that I have had to prod him multiple times over everything, doesn't address the fact that his reasoning was that he liked Sloosh and Release on my wagon, and disliked snickers and me on mderg: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/458796-normal-mini-mafia-lvi?page=37#721Remember, later on, when VE is in the thread, Release, one of the two guys he likes, is on mderg, and Snickers, one of the guys he doesn't like, is on me. So, he changes his explantion to "sloosh was my rock", which is NOT the explanation he was using during the lynch (again, here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/458796-normal-mini-mafia-lvi?page=37#721). It is, however, more convenient, just like VE's fake anger (until he got called out for it and realized I was being super reasonable), or VE's afking right after I start engaging my thread, up until riight before the deadline. In fact, it's also interesting that he tries to shut down snickers' posting here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/458796-normal-mini-mafia-lvi?page=39#766but hey, dont' worry guys, after he gets called out, half an hour later VE says it was a joke. Of course, I don't see ANYTHING joking about that read at all, so I guess I'm missing something, but it's awfully convenient http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=22411055. Also, note that VE was pretending to be mad at me up until he realized it was looking bad, then decided to stop being mad at me just long enough to address the case I made against him. All these convenient afks, fake anger, and convenient "jokes" telling people to stop engaging the thread are all things that VE has tried to brush off, but this coupled with VE's low contribution amount this game (don't look at his filter size-- even though he has 3 pages he has spent a lot of it being afk or pretending to be mad at me) it's basically clear he's scum. First off, let's look at VE's "last minute" post. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=828&topic_id=458796This post, in which VE asks for a vigi shot, is in the very very last second of the night. I tried to make my post at the very last second before the deadline, but VE actually slipped this in between my post and the deadline. Now, you may think, "it makes sense for VE to ask to be shot. After all, maybe he's worried he'd get lynched as a townie and doesn't want to waste town's time". That's true, but look at the timing; there's absolutely no way that VE is going to get shot when he posts at that time, when it's too late for anyone to do anything. So what's the purpose? I can't find one other than "it makes VE look a tiny bit better", but honestly it's so see-through that the only thing I can think of is that VE is just trying to make noises that he thinks a townie would make, and he screwed up. Who asks for a vigi shot when it's too late for vigis to shoot? Remember, ve was in the thread about 10 minutes earlier (link) as well as throughout the night, he had plenty of time to ask for a shot and he didn't until it would make no difference. Next, VE retcons (link) how he was feeling about mderg during D2. It's true, VE made a scumread on mderg, but who was VE voting, even when his stated reasons for voting changed conditions? It was me, not mderg. Ve made all the noises about wanting to lynch mderg, and he even said that he liked Sloosh and Release on my wagon, and he wasn't voting mderg because Snickers and I were voting mderg. (link). Then, when release votes mderg and snickers votes ykz, VE stands by his vote. Remember, it was "2 townreads on the ykz wagon, 2 scumreads on the mderg wagon, that's my main reason here." When one of his townreads votes for mderg and one of his scumreads votes for me, what's the deal then VE? This has never adequately been explained, except when he changes his explantion to "sloosh was my rock", which is NOT the explanation he was using during the lynch (again, here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/458796-normal-mini-mafia-lvi?page=37#721). So, VE made a lot of NOISE about being fine about the mderg wagon. I totally agree with him that he certainly liked to WRITE that he was fine about the mderg wagon. He definitely made up reasons that he voted me over mderg. But when those conditions changed, and his reasons didn't make sense any more, he didn't swap to mderg, or even try to re-evaluate. No, instead he "got mad" at me (link) and "happened" to be afk during the crucial time leading up to the lynch. But enough about D2; let's talk about D3. VE lays out his scumreads for today, which are me and Sloosh he says he's conflicted, and his heart says bh and his head says sloosh (link). He then asks for help. He doesn't have questions, he doesn't have cases to write. He doesn't ask me to clarify anything (Despite apparently now being cool with cooperating with me) and he doesn't try to address sloosh in any way. When artanis replies, VE responds by quoting his nk speculation in which he's telling me he's "giving me a pass" for D3. (link). This is in contradiction with his previous post, but I consider this contradiction to be a towntell rather than a scumtell. The issue with this post isn't that he contradicts himself (townies often do this) but that when someone offers an opinion, he just drops a quote and doesn't press on. Then, he just says "chez ur on the table today" (link) and it's like fairly clear at this point VE is just trying to figure out which way the wind is blowing. I'm amazed he hasn't made a koshi case yet . So here's where things get interesting. He's back onto the "gk kill means something" train (link) and trying to give himself credit for the mderg lynch again, but look at what he says about GK specifically Show nested quote +On June 22 2014 10:17 VisceraEyes wrote:
This was the post that solidified my read on mderg - he mentioned something I also noticed (and mentioned actually) and he ended up dying in the night. However beyond this you're right, at the end of the day he ended up on the "mderg town" side of things. :/
Frankly the only thing I can see GK being killed for is either a busted role-hunt or to implicate me somehow (he ended up scummy on me at the end of the day). Good to know. At this point, VE is not in fact looking at GK's post and trying to evaluate it for merit. He's not saying "i'm gonna read this case or post with fresh eyes, as though GK were still alive, since GK was shot and is conftown". Instead, he's focusing his opinion on the scum part of the thing, the fact that GK was killed. GK could be killed for all kinds of reasons, and it can be valuable to speculate about it at times, but look at VE here. He's not using dead GK as some kind of resource to read, looking at the cases and posts like someone who's townie would. Instead of looking for GK's logic, his mind goes to reasons scum would shoot GK. I consider this to be a minor point in comparison to the end-of-D2 stuff. But it's a point. Buddying me (link) but more importantly an attack on sloosh. Why defend a scumread, VE? He defends himself, but not against my case (link). The taking credit thing is clever and annoying but not on its own an issue. It's really wroth noting that the 2nd post, about original posts, is spot-on. During D2 VE is mostly just chucking out rando reads without following them up, probably looking to see what sticks before writing a case. After losing his partner, VE wants to not overstep his leadership, which means toning down the nasty and buddying with me, and being like water and changing his shape to fill the container. As I wrote this post, he decides to vote me and of course does not write or reference a case: (link)Show nested quote +On June 23 2014 12:16 VisceraEyes wrote:
slOosh do you still think BH is mafia? Release does. And I think I'm rescinding his pass for his BS last night.
##Vote: YouKnowZhou I'll just leave that post in which VE votes me with no explanation, next to this quote from VE just 10 hours earlier: Show nested quote +On June 23 2014 02:42 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 22 2014 17:45 slOosh wrote:
Righto. Nothings changed. Any questions? I'm an open book.
##Vote YouKnowZhou This isn't true at all, something HAS changed. THIS cycle instead of having only one townie tunnel on his resume, BH has now pushed and voted for scum. That HAS changed and you don't just get to come in and throw a vote down on BH without explaining why he does that as mderg's mafia partner. So I guess VE, besides all the points against you, something HAS changed. I have now pushed and voted for scum. You don't jsut get to come in and throw a vote down on BH without some explaining why I do that as mderg's mafia partner , in the words of a wise man. ##vote VisceraEyes
So i never even thought about that but YKZ how much do you think people will want to lynch you if we lynched VE and he turned town. This does not push the thread forward but I think it is interesting.
Also this reminded me that i think you were going to comment on my play or something to that effect. Are you still going to or do you have more time demanding things.
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On June 21 2014 08:48 VisceraEyes wrote:For someone who made a request of me to "get a read on me", BH seems to already be leaning fairly town on me. So why the appeal to emotion? And IF he thinks I'm town, what use is there for him to discredit me? Meh, questions for another day I suppose. I'll answer his questions, but for town and NOT for BH. BH is on my shitlist now. Indefinitely. Show nested quote +On June 21 2014 06:17 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 19 2014 20:40 VisceraEyes wrote:
Ready To Read BH Yet?
Meeeehhhhhhhhhhhhhh........................I think he might be mafia. He hasn't had any direct interactions with me due to timing and our respective AFK periods, but frankly the bunnies push felt contrived to begin with, and that he stuck with it only to see her flip green raises red flags to me. He makes a special point to say how GODLY he is at Mafia too, insinuating how BAD he is at town right? Sounds like preknowledge of his main target's flip to me. It's a weak read, but he's my worst read. I put it off because I was scurd, but now I might get lynched and it doesn't matter if I scurd anymore. I think he's mafia based on what's in the thread.
Does this accurately summarize your reason for scumreading me? Also, can you be specific about who you like and don't like on the wagons? Yes, it accurately summarizes my reasons for scumreading you. Specifically I like slOosh and Release on your wagon and I disliked Snickers and you on the mderg wagon. I'm not really reading Koshi as supertown yet which concerns me, but I dislike him less than I dislike you and Snickers.
Oh man please forgive me host and players I keep messing up probably because of how tired I am. Anyway i was trying to say I did not notice this fact but if VE would get lynched and showed town I think a lot of people would be on you YKZ.
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YKZ if you have time, what is your view on goodkarma being killed? Is there actual information that it gives or is the information such a long shot, that it is not worth evaluating compared to what people post in the thread. If it does give information can you comment on it.
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On June 18 2014 09:06 goodkarma wrote:
Yeah. I'm done for a spell. Take note of the people who afk'ed that last hour. Those are the ones who deserve the most scrutiny.
We should honor this and look into it. Also goodkarma talks about VE being wishy washy. I do not know if this is common or not but i read a whole mafia game before this one. I specifically saw contined wishy washy posts from a mafia player. I thought mderg was wishy washy and I think i mentioned some wishy washy posts from VE's filter. So I think wishy washy is a good way to find scum. Lazer Monkey disagreed with the way(i forgot what we were calling it) that i suspected mderg.
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On June 23 2014 14:49 Release wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2014 12:23 Snickers wrote:
Release can you comment on Lazer Monkey's posting? I think somebody already did but I would like to hear your thoughts.
Also when you say "guys" whoever else thought that Sloosh was mafia. That seems really suspicious.
Also Release can you comment on the goodkarma kill? Do you even think it has merit?
See above, and if you are too lazy, I feel like he's grasping at straws, casting suspicion and trying to see what sticks.
I thought Artanis commented earlier but I just wanted to catchall. Think of it what you will.I think the goodkarma kill was to kill someone not involved in controversy/chaos, a situation in which the majority of the us were. He attacked me and YKZ early in the day before focusing on VE. At that point, he hadn't said too much except this Show nested quote +On June 18 2014 08:32 goodkarma wrote:
##Vote: VE
It's pretty clear he's not interested in keeping up with this game and is spewing whatever comes off the top of his head. Not clearly scum-aligned thought process, but a clear liability. And there's also that he lied about his history, which is pretty durned scummy. . There is the possibility that mafia silenced him before he could say more, but I'm more inclined to believe the first sentence in this paragraph. And for a note: I'm reading VE similarly to mderg, in that I feel his posts are somewhat suspicious but understandable in accordance with a town agenda. Also, the blatant meaning of his words do not nearly indicate as much mafia as mderg's did. Yeah and I'll leave this here until something new comes up: ##Vote Lazermonkey
Are you saying the bold is scummy because I do not really see it. Am i casting suspicion on you or on LazerMonkey?
If you want the truth to why I asked that i will tell you but I would rather wait till after the lynch since I think VE is getting it.
I will tell you why I asked the goodkarma thing though. I think you are a good player (as in knowledgeable not alignment) after reading multiple peoples' filters.
Also I will read your filter to see where this LazerMonkey vote came from. I think I remember something about his votes day two being brought up.
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Release and YKZ if you are still around. What do you make of the day one posts. Sloosh highlighted the alignment of players. I do not think all of mafia would of been on 27nb. So i think it is very likely that, not to call you out but release lazermonkey or ve is scum. So it is obvious i think Ve is the most likely out of the mentioned three. Release is most likely not. As with lazermonkey, I read his filter and I thought it looked townie, somebody just mentioned he was playing well day one then dropped off day two or vice versa.
So you most def do not want me to harp VE. If you have not yet, look at my post where I comment on where mderg says "honestly". I think mderg slipped so much with words it may have clued us in on other scum.
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On June 23 2014 05:03 Snickers wrote:
.... I specifically said what makes him scum.
4 lines? Lol I would say that is a weak case when we are 45 pages into the game.
If you really want four lines here it is.
Ve has multiple times taken credit for things he has not done and has not pushed the thread forward with his own original posts. Also his interaction with mderg seems to be a set up to prove he is town.
Also YKZ any thoughts on this? I understand if you do not want to read my unreadable post, so this is a bit more friendly.
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Yea so Release is looking very town to me now. Day one votes I was saying it was scummy for him not to consolidate, but now that it has flipped mderg as mafia (or now that I am reading more clearly), it would mean mafia decided to not choose a defensive backing. It also made release look initially scummy. So I made quite the fallacy by putting release on the same level of scrutiny as Ve and LazerMonkey.
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At this point, let not forget the possibility that LazerMonkey and Ve are both scum. I feel like we are starting to say One or the other. So Ykz, you think his anger was weird, I think his plea of do not let YKZ let you think this way and do not talk yourself into thinking I am mafia was weird.
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So I will not be able to give any large information detailed reading before the lynch happens. I will maybe be able to post something tomorrow morning and hopefully I can read everything that is posted before the lynch so I can make an accurate vote. For now here is my vote just in case something bad happens on my commute home ie. hitting a deer like I did two weeks ago.
##Vote VisceraEyes
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I get you/lazer/ve as in the five people that did not vote 27nb was me you lazer ve and 27nb. Mderg voted 27nb so assuming that mafia do not vote together. Now I am not scum so I left me out of it. Left 27nb out because she flipped vt. So that left you/lazer/ve . I posted after that post how I think you should not be put on the same level as lazer/ve since they voted mderg while you voted YKZ.
My opinion on Lazer is that I went through his filter and I read him as town. I was not around when the final voting was happening so I am kinda confused on what happened. So far I have that Lazer did something very scummy last minute. It seems like a lot of people agree with it (more than two) so I just believe it was.
I should probably reread his filter because I only had him and Chezinu as just plain town (as in not good town or bad town). I can probably do better with LazerMonkey but probably not with Chezinu. I do not think it is possible to say chezinu is good or bad town just different.
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Oh really? I thought you were pistachio and peanut flavored or almond and pecan flavored .
Also ve, I would say it is hard to determine effort.
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Lazermonkey, I already said what I thought I am not saying more.
Anyway what I was going to was read your filter while eating Lunch.
I also thought that I was not being wushu washy at all. I said i had this conclusion, others had this conclusion.
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I do not think i made a long post about your alignment. Day 2 I made a post mentioning I read you as town. Then I told release I still thought you were town but I would look into it. I knew people were calling you scum for voting the first time I read your filter. It is worries me that your asking me questions that take time when I am super busy, almost like you planned that. I did say I would not consolidate on you but I have already switch my consolidate post to I would not lynch Release, unless he did the biggest scum slip.
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So ve is talking about activity but the main point is hid activity pushing the game forward or not doing anything or defending himself. He is saying day two was when he was least active and if memory serves me right , that was the day no one was voting him or the day where he was least likely to get lynched. Now it seems like he is just defending himself which release said is scummy.
Anyway Lazermonkey last time I'm saying something about this. All those posts I was saying you were town with the possibility of you being scum. I was saying lets not make associations like everyone hates and goes on a witch hunt for. Every person that has not flipped is possible for scum.
What is the case on sloosh? Did I misss something ? (Requesting four lines or less) . He and koshi are my top town reads.
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Lol lazer lying he voted mderg day one.
also ve is burying himself so I am not switching vote.
Also koshi is either the worst town in this game or best scum player. If u do not understand why, look at my posts about principles or I'll explain when I have time aka after lynch.
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Also forgot to mention I am too busy to read lazer monkey's filter and it's not top priority in this game even. Also I would like to hear the case on sloosh and koshi.
Case is clear and four sentences
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So whatever you guys do,make sure to consolidate. Also anybody that has voted Lazermonkey since the beginning really look at how ve is reacting to pressure.
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Do not waste your vote on koshi. Read his filter, it be near impossible to play bad town that well.
Malawi ve said he did not want ykz to contribute to thread . This is scummy.
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I thought my reads we're bad a he he.
Artanis did u completely forget about day one lol.
So far in this game my reads are better than your reads.
Like seriously go through koshi filter and explain why scum would play that.
And all jokes aside. Does Lazermonkey really think he did not vote mderg day one. A little lost with my quick reading .
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How the heck am I the one one to comment on that and how the heck does ve forgot his first day post. On he was not strong on it then. Wow Lazermonkey is making the choice a lot harder for me. If ve and lazer monkey are scum, lazer monkey trying to stop us from consolidating.
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Koshi is town because of how bad his play continual is. Look at his first scum reads as me release and somebody else because we did not vote together. He's not pushing the thread or helping much but what do you expect from a bad town player. More on this later.
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Since people love reddit terms , tifu by think we had till 9: 30 eastern instead of 8:45
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On June 24 2014 09:47 Koshi wrote:
Scum won. I cant believe this. Everybody can be scum really. I have no reads anymore. I also dont care anymore.
So if koshi was posting more posts like this I would think he is scum. And i highly doubt there is a vigilante in this game if he has not shot his bullet yet.
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On June 24 2014 06:28 Lazermonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2014 06:23 Snickers wrote:
I thought my reads we're bad a he he.
Artanis did u completely forget about day one lol.
So far in this game my reads are better than your reads.
Like seriously go through koshi filter and explain why scum would play that.
And all jokes aside. Does Lazermonkey really think he did not vote mderg day one. A little lost with my quick reading . LOL. I really didn't remember that. Well this makes me look much better, doesn't it? : D
So what do you guys make of this. In any of the multiple mafia games you played, did you forget that you voted someone? I guess it also depends on the timing and situation. It seems weird for a town and scum to forget his vote. I am guessing what happened was somebody told Lazermonkey to throw his vote on 27nb.
This ties in perfectly with my koshi town read.
The reason why i read koshi town before the most recent posts was because he is playing such terrible town as in his reads are useless. So why even post them if they are going to make you look scummy. It would be insanely hard to fake being bad at this game for the longest time like he has.
Now LazerMonkey I have been reading as town and now he admits that he did not remember his first day vote. Now both of use were slurring are words here, but nothing this badly. If Lazer was saying stuff 100% wrong or forgetting stuff all game, this would not look odd.
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On June 21 2014 09:00 Kurumi wrote:Night 2 The People's Committee was a very hot place today. The evidence seemed to be daunting on couple of the villagers, but consensus was hard to reach. The rules were clear for every person in the room. Kill so we have a chance before they kill us. The two candidates were both very scared of the verdict. One of them had that fear fulfilled and changed into true terror. It was mderg. He left the room with The Sheriff. After couple of minutes and most likely mderg begging for his life a shot pierced the village. + Show Spoiler +mderg the Mafia Goon was lynched! Final vote tally mderg (5): Koshi, Artanis[Xp], Release, YouKnowZhou, Chezinu - Unvotes (1): Snickers YouKnowZhou (5): slOosh, VisceraEyes, Snickers, mderg, Lazermonkey - Unvotes (2): Release, Artanis[Xp] VisceraEyes (0) - Unvotes (3): Chezinu, mderg, Lazermonkey Koshi (0) - Unvotes (2): Artanis[Xp], Lazermonkey Snickers (0) - Unvotes (4): Chezinu, Artanis[Xp], Release, YouKnowZhou mderg was first to 5 and so was lynched.
So can someone explain that the chances of someone out of me, sloosh, and lazer monkey as mafia?(not a scum slip, just that I am not confirmed town) As in why would two people vote mderg in.
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(I am not Scum. I am not Scum. I am not Scum. I am not Scum. I am not Scum. I am Not Scum. I am not Scum. I am not Scum. I am not Scum. I am not Scum.)2,000,000
Anyway koshi has contributed more than VE is you ask me. Why is Sloosh not scum?
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Koshi, if you are being serious, remember that two people in this game are going to lie and be misleading lot. The other players are still going to be doing this to an extent. Do not take this too seriously.
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On June 25 2014 03:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2014 00:43 Snickers wrote:
(I am not Scum. I am not Scum. I am not Scum. I am not Scum. I am not Scum. I am Not Scum. I am not Scum. I am not Scum. I am not Scum. I am not Scum.)2,000,000
Anyway koshi has contributed more than VE is you ask me. Why is Sloosh not scum? No he hasn't, plus that doesn't mean he's not scum.I misread SlOosh, thought I had proof that he's town but I actually don't. Bleh, if I did carpet bombing would work. Show nested quote +On June 25 2014 03:18 slOosh wrote:
Artanis, I find it quite unlikely that both Lazermonkey and Koshi could both be scum. Do you agree?
If so, who do you think is the second scum after Koshi? At first glance I don't see why not. Why do you think they can't?
How am I suppose to trust your reads, when you do not even understand a simple comment. Never said "he's not scum". I was showing you how dumb it was to think someone is scum because he is saying he is not scum. So you really only have one point.
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Ok so why do people just straight up say how they scum hunt. That is the most confusing sentence and actual move I have seen yet.
Yea I do not see people going for koshi tomorrow so stop trying to make fetch happen.
Did you try to make mderg happen this much day one or YKZ happen day two.
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Mr. Harp reporting. It's official that under questioning, NameDropper has no clue what is being asked of him and decides to reply to something off topic. The only other possibility are team of detectives have considered was maybe he is delusional.
In actual news, how about you start thinking clearly like ykz and Lazermonkey.
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So sloosh what is your read on me. And I just read it quickly but I do not see how ykz koshi and Lazermonkey are related.
I forgot to type this when I had time but lazer and sloosh both "happened" to not be on the main lynch twice. So have I but I think it is understandable why. Not saying they are both scum, just something that I will try to look into later and something I thought people should know.
Also not sure if they voted town or scum.
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Yea I think it would be a lot better to lynch Lazermonkey because he forgot that he voted mderg day one. I already explained why I thought it was suspicious.
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Yea wine in front of me. Ebwop is edit by way of post. Fellow townie good karma told me a great website to look up terms.
YO lazer guess what the website said. That was one of the most misused terms.
So if I had to guess your wrong . Explain to me how your right.
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I would not be surprised if mafia killed NameDropper just because one of the persons he had as town is mafia.
Also, somebody mentioned him saving someone. There could be more than one medic i think for town.
Also Lazer your wifom is terrible. I already explained why.
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On June 24 2014 06:28 Lazermonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2014 06:23 Snickers wrote:
I thought my reads we're bad a he he.
Artanis did u completely forget about day one lol.
So far in this game my reads are better than your reads.
Like seriously go through koshi filter and explain why scum would play that.
And all jokes aside. Does Lazermonkey really think he did not vote mderg day one. A little lost with my quick reading . LOL. I really didn't remember that. Well this makes me look much better, doesn't it? : D
Yea so here is me delivering on YKZ's request.
Also how have you guys played all these mafia games but do not realize there could be two medics in this game.
So we have no clue if art saved someone.
And yea I am most likely going to vote Lazer. If Lazer flips town, well that would leave me like koshi was left earlier.
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Yea so last two scum are ykz and lazer.
Lazer says that him not remembering his vote says something to the effectt of "well this does not make me look good :D"
Then I say that it makes him look bad and this flips his world upside down.
Ykz is scum because he broke out of his character completely now. Also look at how weak his case on koshi is compared to VE. Even 27nb. Also he did not comment on me responding to him.
Lazer is more so than ykz. Side not: koshi's recent point about is weird.
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You say I'm probably town then say you will not question me anymore? Lol that makes a lot of sense. Already clearly stated it and you still do not get it. Also you are confused.
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So now your assuming your going to get lyched. Yea good logic.
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So let's see who has read well, or who has listened dwell. Why is ykz post above this talking to koshi about his case super scummy. It's obvious if your good with patterns. Anyway, now I have a hard decision of voting for lazer or ykz.
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Well I would not mind if what I was doing was annoying if I was scum, but I'm town so here I go.
The kenpachi rule boils down to, scum will use it for accepting a small disadvantage, but possibly a great reward.
Your defense of lazer deals with the same idea. He did something that was obviously scummy. Small disadvantage that he would be called out, but big advantage if you convince us it's so scummy it's not.
Your case on ve was my third example but I forget what it was.
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Yea cause I do not get what you are trying to say. I also do not really understand you in general.
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Ok so why is chezinu cop. And why do Lazermonkey and name dropper rhyme with double standard but chunky and whopper do not rhyme with each other.
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Lazer if u want to look town to me, look at the questions sloosh ask during day one and analyze them. He asks ykz and me and somebody else about reads. They could be pointless though and just attempts to look townie. I do not have a computer to reference them to the rest of the thread.
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On June 25 2014 06:29 Snickers wrote:
Mr. Harp reporting. It's official that under questioning, NameDropper has no clue what is being asked of him and decides to reply to something off topic. The only other possibility are team of detectives have considered was maybe he is delusional.
In actual news, how about you start thinking clearly like ykz and Lazermonkey.
Day 2 votes I was busy so I had to consolidate early. W/e you make out of that. Anyway time for me to come clean. I do not know if this is the best move, but I think it will be good for me and chezinu to compare notes. I am the Detective.
Here was the message when I was afraid of dying. Day one I checked YKZ and he was reported back town.
Day two I checked Lazer and he came town.
Day three I checked SLoosh and he became town.
I originally thought my the trick to my role was trying to guess who was getting lynched. So I thought YKZ was getting lycnhed day two. I thought Lazer day three Then I figured out that after I have lived for awhile, it is more about good checks. Anyway I checked sloosh after learning this.
So Chezinu does this help you? Hopefully Lazer is scum.
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lol back to came to became, owell you guys get the point. Anyway Lazer getting lynched, If he is scum, his role will help us out alot.
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Or I'm insane and release and koshi are scum. One of them framed ykz then lazer then you. The world may never know.
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But chezinu, if I follow you now and for some reason cannot change my vote.... You are too confusing. Anyway , why do you believe me, does my info match you perfectly or have my actions proved me town.
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Lol worst play of the game above . Ykz is slipping now that there is pressure.
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Read the role of detective.
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So I just got three green checks. Just hope mafia are not onto my checks. Plus I'm assuming the other two mafia are not just goons. Prob one godfather and one something.
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And like someone said and the way I have been thinking , godfather and framer can be the two left.
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On June 26 2014 22:04 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2014 20:37 Chezinu wrote:On June 26 2014 18:09 Koshi wrote:
Suddenly greenchecks everywhere. So.. what's your role? VT. I would never lie to you people about my alignment.
suspicious anyway I think the voting is going to be in six hours and this thread is not going anywhere. Hopefully chezinu updates us.
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Why would you not just, I would never lie about my alignment. Saying you people makes it sound like your are not with us. Chezinu is apparently confirmed town so that even adds to it. Your also talking about lying about your alignment.
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Also just thought about something interesting. I am not 100% sure about this but lets consider something. YKZ hard pushes 27nb on day one. Relatively early. Same thing day two with VE. Now day three he has not pushed anyone yet, but only six hour till deadline? His biggest move so far was defending Lazer. Looking likely those two are scum.
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On June 27 2014 03:18 YouKnowZhou wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2014 03:02 Snickers wrote:
Also just thought about something interesting. I am not 100% sure about this but lets consider something. YKZ hard pushes 27nb on day one. Relatively early. Same thing day two with VE. Now day three he has not pushed anyone yet, but only six hour till deadline? His biggest move so far was defending Lazer. Looking likely those two are scum. > claims to be cop > doesn't know what day it is, or who has been lynched on what day Amazingly, It's not even like he's scum for this, either. I'm sure scum would be keenly aware that it is in fact Day 4. I wish I could call Snickers scum. There just aren't words appropriate for a mafia game for me to say that would adequately define my opinion of a case against me based on the fact that D1 and D2 I mislynched 27nb and VE, and now on "D3" I'm defending LM. Like, not only is it not D3, but on D2 it was mderg that was lynched, and oh my god I can't even deal with this guy
lol thats the first decent size mistake i made in this game. A lot of a mistake than all the people that did not even read the roles.
Anyway, day one hard pushed 27nb early
Day two was hard pushing me I guess, will look into it when I get time before the lynch.
Day three hard push ve early.
Day four defend lazer early.
And it is weird that Lazer says YKZ is town before me and chezinu.
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No I do not get how you pick up on good things and know terms well but you can not read a post. The difference between you and koshi is that koshi is consistent and you are not.
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Jeez koshi start following the thread a bit more or check your posts before posting. Make it easier for town to see your town.
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I'm an insane or sane detective And why would I be mafia . I thought u thought I was town.
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Last time, I am not a cop. Mafia players tend to make the same mistake over and over, you guys think so alike. Anyway you literally said YKZ is town before me and chezinu, just weird to put it that way. Unless you recently began to think he is town.
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FOR THE LAST TIME. I AM NOT LEGEND. I AM NOT COP. I am detective. Are you actually confused or just scum messing with me.
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Release is starting to look scummy again. Someone mentions his name, bam he's in the thread.
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Ok can you all help me out here. I am having a hard time trying ot figure out what is happening. If everyone could post just the name of the person and where thye think they stand, it would save alot of confusion. Also at the end state who your are currently voting for since no vote updates have happened? YKZ mostly did this above but left out the vote.
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As these posts keep continuing, I keep leaning on wanting to kill Lazer and YKZ. Jeez I think scum have won this game. Way too much confusing at this stage I feel we absolutly no nothing copared to how much info has been giving.
OK so i guess everyone believes that I am town. That is about all I understand.
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Yea i went to go do a votecount and then I looked back and its updated. Mine was far off lol.
##Vote LazerMonkey
Look at NameDropper's last post. I think it really allows us to see the situation clearly.
Two things to keep in mind. If lazer turns town, I will be definately looking into Sloosh. And Release, as possible scum.
Ykz has all game been on my watch list.
Also very sure Lazer is town, especially because of his erratic play as of late.
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Woops I meant very sure Lazer is scum because of his erratic play as of late. Anyway time for me to post all of my current reads.
Chezinu-town.
YKZ-Very suspicious
Lazer-scum
Release-town
Koshi-town
Sloosh-town
Also if I die tonight instead of chezinu, be very suspicious.
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So did I post my reads too soon? Owell hopefully we got another medic to protect me. Anyway this game would be alot easier if town played well. And seriously when are you guys going to read the rules. There could be two medics.
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OK everyone that is in this thread at this moment. Anwser this for me please. What is the likliness that all of scum voted together day one. If Lazer flips town, that is why I think release is scum. Also if release we then lynch release sloosh is probably scum for his ding ding ding comment. Sloosh did seem suspicious to me becasue of his votes.
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So anyone thought that YKZ is trying to save Lazer so much because if lazer flips scum we would all most likely go after him. His push style has found a weakness. Also the comment sloosh made about we will take about it later is prty scummy. One of the many reasons I am lynching Lazer.
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Ok since you two are so sure that each other are town, Why not be voting release instead of koshi? I do not understand that. I have been here giving Lazer a fair chance I feel and it is seriously annoying when he says I have bad logic. I have been the most logical person in this game. Notice how late I threw my vote on him. Within two hours of deadline. I am almost 100% positive you are both scum since you are voting koshi instead of release. You guys probably thought koshi would be the easier to get followers.
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You guys have no clue how to think logically if you ask me. After the game, I should post the general idea of a philosophy paper I wrote my senior year in high school. You guys assume way too much. That is almost rule one when it comes to logically thinking. You may be scum so this post is pointless but w/e.
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Seriously dude, you aint funny. The panic is real.
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Lazer what do you want me to do? And here is my last request. Why are you voting koshi over release?
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Lazer what is it that you want me to do if you flip town. honored Name Dropper.
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Wow lazer calling someone a name when he may be scum that is harsh. You probably are town at this point. Or just too into this game
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Can i tell Lazer to go BLEEP himself.
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No regrets from me. If you guys would so kindly lynch release tomorrow that would be splendid since I am going to die. So Koshi and Chezinu peaced out it seems. Release, Ykz and SLoosh, was still here.
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Well if release was a smart scum, he would actually kill someone besides me so he could live. So many mysteries. Oh well. Funny how NameDropper starts Dropping names on me..... BAM! dead. MeanMonkey starts going ape shit in the thread.... BAM! he is dead. Apparently mafia know how to be gm. Clap Clap. This game is so messed up if Chezinu and Koshi are scum.
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So are we all going to be on our game tomorrow and lynch release? Or is scum going to mess us up again like Day one and Today. Or are we going to finally lynch YKZ, cause Ykz deserves a lynch for all of his stunts.
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So are options are Koshi, Release, YKZ and SLoosh. AKA me or Chezinu are going to get bopped tonight.
Someone should highlight the votes I guess.
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Well why would you think he is town. I do not see all of mafia voting for 27nb day one so there is one of the main easy reasons to understand. Also he seems to be not too productive. For example posting a case of me only including day one stuff when we were into day two or day three by then. Also I think he is going to try and push a YKZ lynch for tomorrow and that would just be wrong. Also I think you two have had synergy since day one. You seemed scummy from your post about telling me not to talk about if Lazer flips town? You said something to stop discussion which is scummy. Ve did the same thing and release called him out on it. I wonder if Release will say something to you.
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Release is pushing ykz with the same idea he is pushing me. Bad day one play. But lets not look at the other three days..... And his vote would have helped YKZ get lynched over bunnies because the reason goodkarma voted bunnies was because release was nowhere to be around.
This town is really bad.
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No but what do you refer his antics are? I must be so newbie that I missed them.
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If i die later on, realize the chances of all scum voting 27nb day one.
Also realize how release thought i was scummy for awhile just based on day one things and also ykz.
Also keep a close eye on sloosh.
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On June 19 2014 04:51 Snickers wrote:
You are an idiot or scum if you can't "see" the scum in mderg's first post. First off saying there is a chance you are only going to contribute one post to day one. This shows his terrible interest in this game. Then he tries to say he votes to prevent mod kill. Id rather him be modkilled than him help lynch someone because he felt a slight scum. You guys must have played so many games of mafia you cannot think logically. You have these rules that you hold so highly. Even if these rules were true you guys cannot even use them right. So assuming they are true they still are no use. And somebody mentioned something about release. If you can't see the scum in his post there is a problem or you are scum.
I cannot believe no one mentioned this aspect of this game. 27nb had the same principles in her posts from the start. Confused, emotional, silly. So has ykz. Cocky , deceiving, focused. We know 27nb was town. If ykz is mafia he is very good at it. Even after the proof that he was wrong or was lying. He perfectly continues his principals after the lynch. Release on the other hand had been inconsistent with his principals. He seems aggressive than passive.
Reactionary than static. I think it should be looked into. I won't be able to post or read until six hours from now. I will look at be (whoever name keeps getting mentioned).
Also koshi seems to be obsessed with me. I am thinking him as third mafia.
i literally called them as the three mafia before day two started. I cant believe you guys did not Vote release at the end.
So many people said my "reads" were bad... that was not the case. And on top of that, at least i did not get mislynched.
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Art stop hating on me. Day one I was right. Ok that does not matter. It is a team game. I voted ykz to consolidate not because he was my top scum read, and on top of that, having him out of the way would prob of been beneficial since everyone wasted so much time on him. Day 3 Ve made himself look way to scummy. Day 4 Lazer over Monkey? You mean Lazer over Koshi?( I dont remember 100%) But it probably did not matter since it seemed like most people peaced. It would have been alot better to lynch release over koshi but it still would of been 4v3.
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Another reason I voted Lazer was because even if he was not scum, I thought this town would naturally lynch release and we would not be screwed. Release played this town so hard with his first post but no one even realized how "made up" it was after me pointing out multiple times. All I can say about your play is at least you did not get mislynched.
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I know I did. Look at koshi's comment about my game.
Heres the thing. Your wrong about alot of things but you think you are right. It does not matter who you vote for. It matters who you think is scum. I voted YKZ day two because Its a TEAM GAME. I even said in the post I think mderg had a better chance of being scum.
Your logic is insanely flawed. "I saw he was town, which means you could've too." yea ok. I could literally say the vice versa back to you.
SO day one and two I was right. Day three was VE was playing terrible and got mislynched. Day four I lynched Lazer because even if he was not scum, I thought it would for sure get release lynched. Also I was the last person to vote ( I think)
I only could choose from koshi and lazer because its a team game, it is stupid not to consolidate. My vote could have even mattered.(another reason your whole thought process is wrong" So i thought for sure release would of been Lynched. Release played this town so hard day one and I was the only one who continued to stay on him.
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Anyway just wanted to say some nice things. Saying "I think" to seem nicer
27nb I think you played well and did not deserve to be lynched day one.
Good Karma I think you were an intelligent player.
Release I think you scum slipped a lot but I guess you only scum slip things that most people cannot see.
Koshi I think you played a very reactionary game unlike the other two scum. You seem to adapt to situations rather than "stick to your guns"
YKZ I think you played well but I think Release fooled most people into lynching you.
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On June 30 2014 11:46 Release wrote:
Snickers, let's be fair about the situation. Despite saying a few times who the scum team were (and I'm sure that throughout the game, everyone was correct at some point), you have to make convincing cases in order to lynch your suspects. If you actually maintained your reads as strongly as you claim, you would have strongly opposed any non (release/koshi/mderg) lynch and prevented the town candidate from dying; you didn't. This is why you were left alive (pre cop claim) and Artanis was shot twice (besides being suspected medic).
Here are my thoughts. Nobody respected me enough for me to get people to follow me. Probably because this is my first game. I read this town as a bad town after 27nb got mislynched. (I called this before the flop) So I knew I was not going to get people to vote with me. You did so many scummy things that people could not realize for some reason. I gave up after awhile of trying to sway people in a standard fashion. So day one I tried to but did not succeed. Day two, I do not see the whole strongly oppose thing, probably because irl i respect if someone has a different viewpoint than me. I was trying to be a team player and consolidate. I thought "even if YKZ is not scum, having him confirmed town would lead to more productive discussion" I even called this day two when you tried to keep all the discussion of YKZ. Also getting ykz confirmed town would make you look slightly bad. I voted VE because One. I play reactionary, he looked scummy to a lot of people. Two. I wanted to get rid of the mafia that did not vote 27nb day one. Then I voted Lazer because my vote mostly did not matter. I tried to set this town up to kill you but they chose not to for w/e reason.
So again your assuming something which I do not blame you, you have played a lot of mafia games right? I thought that the town team was relatively bad compared to scum so I tried to play according to the situation. I tried to react.
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On June 30 2014 10:34 Snickers wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2014 04:51 Snickers wrote:
You are an idiot or scum if you can't "see" the scum in mderg's first post. First off saying there is a chance you are only going to contribute one post to day one. This shows his terrible interest in this game. Then he tries to say he votes to prevent mod kill. Id rather him be modkilled than him help lynch someone because he felt a slight scum. You guys must have played so many games of mafia you cannot think logically. You have these rules that you hold so highly. Even if these rules were true you guys cannot even use them right. So assuming they are true they still are no use. And somebody mentioned something about release. If you can't see the scum in his post there is a problem or you are scum.
I cannot believe no one mentioned this aspect of this game. 27nb had the same principles in her posts from the start. Confused, emotional, silly. So has ykz. Cocky , deceiving, focused. We know 27nb was town. If ykz is mafia he is very good at it. Even after the proof that he was wrong or was lying. He perfectly continues his principals after the lynch. Release on the other hand had been inconsistent with his principals. He seems aggressive than passive.
Reactionary than static. I think it should be looked into. I won't be able to post or read until six hours from now. I will look at be (whoever name keeps getting mentioned).
Also koshi seems to be obsessed with me. I am thinking him as third mafia. i literally called them as the three mafia before day two started. I cant believe you guys did not Vote release at the end. So many people said my "reads" were bad... that was not the case. And on top of that, at least i did not get mislynched.
Ok some people think this is rude. Just wanted to let everyone know that this is a team game, and I think I played poorly team wise. Same as IRL I play chess and 1v1 sc and individual things rather than team things. I do think I played well individually though which is not useless. The bold is individual things.
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Can I get multiple views on this.
Did I claim role at the right time? I think one of the criteria is be confirmed town. I will also try to bread crumb better.
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Lol chezinu I was so confused about you all game. Hopefully I never am town versus your scum.
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On July 03 2014 01:27 raynpelikoneet wrote:Koshi not mad enough to be town. Oh yeah also Release first post totes scum.
Yea the reason why my last post I was trying to get people to vote release final day but said watch sloosh was because he acted like releases first post was amazingly good for town when it was such a fake case. Sloosh said something like "nice reading" when really releases reading was sloppy as hell
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/obgtafM.jpg)
