You don't join a game thinking "I'll fuck this up good". You just don't do that. Even if you're a lunatic, Chezinu or Alakaslam, you join thinking "I'll catch some scum, I'll do good, I'll be a good townie" but that's not what he's doing. I get the "too dumb to be scum" argument but it doesn't apply here. That argument applies when people do stuff like having a dumb scum reads. For example "he's scum for posting a smiley" or something like that, and it's not really "too dumb to be scum" it's "too paranoid not to be town". This is too dumb to be town because no one would ever do this as town, ever.
And the "1for1 2dumb4scum" argument is not good, the reason it is not good is because of how much we're arguing about it now. It's simply not a 1 for 1 if you can get away with it and you can evidently get away with it with how much we disagree on it.
VisceraEyes' argument that a scum Caller would shoot Foolishness/Ace is okay. I like it. I don't buy it though, Caller could easily have thought "Well, I wouldn't get away with nuking one of those guys!". You cannot reason about the motivation of a scum.
Caller is scum for doing something no townie would ever do. This isn't a "that read is a little off, I don't think townies would do that", this is a guy shooting another guy 5 posts into the game. Caller even admitted that it was exceedingly dumb and he hinted that he thinks his meta permits him to get away with it. Townies don't do things they think is dumb just because they believe their meta allows them to do it without getting lynched. Completely scum.
Seems more like a bluff to me. I did it all last game in catastrophe for fun as town since my role is mediocre. I'm guessing Palmar is just VT and bored that he got shot by the insane caller. Their alignments literally do not matter as we won't see Palmar's alignment, such a waste of thread space.
On April 27 2014 00:14 Ace wrote: I can't say much about Caller's thought process with regards to myself/foolishness being in this game. I guess you've never seen him play but the basics of it is nobody is going to deter him from doing as he wants. He'll just disappear and not give an explanation for his actions.
...
Either I need to watch a ton of Spock or I am going to be referring to Caller as "Brother" & stuff before you know it
On April 27 2014 01:15 yamato77 wrote: I'd almost want to pre-empt Caller's nuke at this point, just to make sure Palmar DOESN'T do whatever it is he said he would.
what exactly are you scared of? Read the role list. there is nothing that can do what caller is claiming to do...
anyways I'm wary of any long time players that are taking this caller thing really seriously, potential scum there.
On April 27 2014 01:15 yamato77 wrote: I'd almost want to pre-empt Caller's nuke at this point, just to make sure Palmar DOESN'T do whatever it is he said he would.
what exactly are you scared of? Read the role list. there is nothing that can do what caller is claiming to do...
anyways I'm wary of any long time players that are taking this caller thing really seriously, potential scum there.
Did you expect no one would do this?
Couldn't find a non-shut down vid of "drunk chicken/America" but that is what I would have put.
On April 27 2014 01:33 yamato77 wrote: I assume when you say caller you mean Palmar, because there is every reason to take the nuke seriously, the role is in the OP.
Why is it scummy to take Palmar seriously?
because it doesn't make any sense and ur right typo on my part. Look at role list ---> palmar's threats are unfounded ---> why take him seriously unless you have a motive to focus town's attention on this?
Okay so palmar is now threatening to somehow mysteriously ruin the day for town unless we dayvig caller.
Is this because he thinks caller is scum? I don't see any evidence of that. So palmar's being pissy. Last game he fucked off because he was pissed at the setup having too many third party players. He was town (but he lost his extra wincon basically because of that, if he had kept playing we would have bought more stuff from him.)
But yeah, this doesn't make me think palmar is scum. Actually, if he really does have some power to mess with town he would presumably use it without warning to cause extra chaos, so he's probably either lying scum or pissed off town.
Actually, now that I think of it, when I look at the player list and say "who is the most likely to overreact as town and rage-use a power when I shoot them", palmar is in the top two or three for me together with rol and oatsmaster. Not sure what to make of that. Presumably if palmar's town and caller is scum, caller doesn't know palmar's role. So if caller is scum, and still goads palmar like that, he's likely bulletproof in some way.
@koshi
On April 26 2014 20:23 Koshi wrote: Ok. Palmar is scum. Nice shot Caller. I & Palmar respect Palmar too much for this kind of childish outburst.
Ruining the game for town because a scum shot him? He wont do that as town. Palmar is also not trying or promising to read the game. His only interest is taking Caller with him. As town he would only want that if Caller is scum. But then the ruining game for town thing doesnt make sense.
Or Palmar lost many dota games and is angry at everybody.
Do you really believe the bolded? I don't.
[b]host question: is anything known about scum KP?
On April 27 2014 01:05 Oatsmaster wrote: Hey Ve, you got shot as scum by someone doing pretty much the exact same thing as Caller right?
The guy who shot VE that game was not town though, he was a third party assassin.
On April 27 2014 01:33 yamato77 wrote: I assume when you say caller you mean Palmar, because there is every reason to take the nuke seriously, the role is in the OP.
Why is it scummy to take Palmar seriously?
because it doesn't make any sense and ur right typo on my part. Look at role list ---> palmar's threats are unfounded ---> why take him seriously unless you have a motive to focus town's attention on this?
It doesn't say in the OP that those are the only roles in the game. It just said those roles may be in the game. That said, I agree palmar is either pardoner or bluffing.
On April 26 2014 15:37 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm not in the business of voting for town for playing against how I think they should play. I want to lynch scum. I think geript's outrage at Caller's shot and his numbering his posts makes him more likely to be town. I think IF Palmar is town then there's a chance he'll rage-shoot Caller, and if he's scum then I don't care WHO he might shoot, but until he proves he's town I don't want him shooting anyone.
On reread I don't get as bad a vibe from this post as I did before. I guess the first part feels a bit off/overwrought, but it's not as terrible as it seemed.
That said, I don't like how VE insists on misunderstanding the caller situation, and how he hasn't been talking about anything but saying the same stuff over and over.
Caller's shot is terrible play as either alignment unless he thinks he can get away with it. One for one as scum is terrible and as town his shot is worse, with no information on palmar before shooting. So we are left with two possibilities - either caller is terrible/is playing illogically/doesn't actually want to play, or he thinks he can get away with this shot. This much should be obvious.
So if caller is playing illogically and randomly nuking, it obviously says nothing about his alignment.
On the other hand, if he did this because he thought he could get away with it or for some other strategic reason, it seems to me much more likely that he's scum. He would have to have some kind of plan or extra information to make a calculation that this would work.
What does that mean about VE? Well, VE focuses only on reasons why caller making this shot as scum would be strategically terrible, and even goes so far as to pull a strategic reason for caller to do this as town out of his ass. He ignores the (in my mind far more likely) possibility of a non-strategic action as either alignment. He also ignores the possibility that caller has some extra information as scum, which as I said above makes a strategic shot much more likely to have come from scum than town.
I don't like that when this is the only thing VE has talked about, he's ignoring possibilities and building a particular story that I think is very unlikely. It feels kind of like VE knows caller is town.
There are possible scum motivations for this. Someone else said that as scum VE likes talking about things where he's right, and if VE knows caller is town then he would be guaranteed to be right. Also, as long as he focuses on this one "big event," he won't have to participate in conversations about other players. (Except for the throwaway townread on geript.)
So yeah. It's not a slam dunk but I'm putting my scum bet on VE at this point.
@everybody saying caller wouldnt do that as scum, that's completely backwards logic. The only alignment caller would definetely not do this as is town. As town you don't nuke someone who hasnt posted 1 hour into the game, in a game nuking doesnt even confirm you or says nothing about your alignment and doesnt even provide a flip. Caller can only be scum here. He did the exact same shit in some other game (i forgot which one, but I think he did it to palmar too) I played in and he was scum. We are lynching caller, this isnt even up for discussion.
EPT
