On April 02 2014 18:15 Steveling wrote: I'm now filtering gumshoe, will be posting one liners as I'm reading through it.
Hahahaha, gum <3333, that short description of me you made, haha, that's the gum I remember.
Gum immediately gets some town points because he asks for his cellmate for thoughts on me, not random people. I explained my reasoning in my previous post.
Ummm, gum defending getript, is weird. I will have to filter getript as well to form a better opinion. Btw I think it's weird not as a scam-defends-scam thing but because getript wasn't making much sense at first glance and I recall gum from our game together as a good player, albeit with some suicidal weird plans but good overall. -town points for that but I will have to check getript as well later.
I don't like how he blindly agrees with palmar on mayor'ing him. Pls vote people by their activity and quality of posts not by their reputation.
Hmm, gum gets some scam points for the following bit
On April 02 2014 08:54 raynpelikonoshi wrote: Why didn't you say so in the first place when i gave my answer and asked the same question?
~rayn
Because there's a 50 percent chance your scum therefore I owe you no favours, and I didn't catch anything worth bringing up at that moment.
So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"? Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm.
~rayn
"Mafia is about finding scum, period" your words not mine, why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? You opinion is literally a coin flip away from worthless to me. If you can't read me, that's not my fault, I am playing the game as I see fit, your bieng shit at reads doesn't factor in to my play.
So your honest opinion is that you don't need to give away your alignment to anyone but everyone needs to do so to you?
Also another question. We have 2 imaginary groups X and Y. In group X there is confimed mafia. In group Y there are 3 people who are all really hard to read. Which of the following scenarios in your opinion results more likely in 2 scumlynches: 1) Lynch the confirmed scum in group X, and have 96 hours to figure out the mafia in group Y, or 2) Figure out the mafia in group Y in 48 hours, then lynch the confirmed scum in group X ?
As for your question, 2' because confirmed scum isn't going anywhere. They can be literally killed at any time and I rather lynch question marks while everyone is still invested in the game. I have taken on this mind set strictly because the setup holds no surprises. If I'm scum, why would I champion something like that if my buddy gets lynched by day3 anyways? What do I gain aside from towns ire?
Open the quote to read rayns question. Srsly gum, wtf, you shouldn't be making that kind of mistake. You basically proposed to scumhunt and coin flip the first day lynch so IF we get lucky we end up with 2 semi-confirmed scum instead of taking sowing what's ripe in day1.
Alright gum about that big meta post you did on rayn. Honestly I think it's bad, you claim he accuses you of scumplay and you quote 3 previous games to prove that somehow the meta works for you? You say that "ey guys, I lied there to scumbait, rayn was falsely accusing me, so I'm doing the same thing here", can't you understand how wrong this is? Rayn has every reason in the world to accuse you in both games. Anyway, I remember that was your playstyle as well in our game together so I won't award you with scumpoints for this but if you keep at it, you are getting on my scumlist, period.
Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum.
Again flawed logic, wouldn't I be the easy target here and not you, a player with 4 pages of filter already?
On April 02 2014 13:13 gumshoe wrote: Fun fact, Steve coag and Ceph have not yet started playing really, leaving them out, six people (myself included ) have openly attacked mderg.
Geript
I'm fairly confident that mderg is the scum in Cell 2. I'm probably going to talk with g more and see what we can dig up from this one, because I'm actually kind of afraid to townread HF after the stunt he pulled in Cultured (which was fucking awesome, btw).
Tehpoofter
Makes me think Mderg scummy Sentinal town
Holy
Mderg is mafia in my group btw, that's an easy one.
Rayn
I noticed this too. I asked Koshi what does he think of this mderg guy and he said it seemed strage how he came in straight up defending the one dude in our group. Too crazy that he instant defended a scumbuddy out of nowhere so if mderg guy ends up being scum gumshoe can die in a fire.
It all fits!
Gumshoe
Whats your relation to Steveling, whats your general impression of his play and why did you feel the need to answer a question intended for someone else. Do you think Rayn is scum?
Balla
We can talk about plenty. How mderg's posts so far have been useless and scummy maybe?
Mderg is a lurky/noobish player, bad play coming out of him deserves due consideration. 50 percent of this games active players (I am not counting lurkers) find this guy scummy in a game where a third of us are scum. Yeah... lynching this guy is not getting us a red flip.
I believe there are some scum in this list you made gum. My personal opinion on mderg is that the only town read he has going for himself is when he defended me. He must have seen me posting in the football thread and he just said what he reasoned out. He's inactive or posting fluff, so I'm leaning towards scum for him but the bus'ing against him and the fact he's new made me think otherwise.
All in all I'm pretty confused with gum, I'm leaning neutral on him atm, can't make my mind.
I love this post BECAUSE it's riddled with uncertainty, this game is filled with people who have perfect reads (cause scum) it's a breath of fresh air to see someone who legit not sure of whose scum in his cell. If steve was scum, he could easily attack me or Rayn, and the way were going at it the non pick might just support his choice whole heartedly. Unfortunately for scum, steve is not just truing to survive his cell, dude be figuring shit out ( : good genuine effort in this post and a stance I feel is most likely town. Steve is cool.
On April 02 2014 22:17 raynpelikonoshi wrote: gumshoe You still haven't commented on Steveling. Can you do so?
You first, I've been waiting on your thoughts before I post mine ( : do me the curtesy?
I like his filterdive on you because he touches the same points as I do, and he did that before he filterdives us. I noticed that he didn't take a hard stance on which of us is scum after his dive even though he sees you way scummier than us. But I have no problem with that because reading his filterdive of you makes it very hard for him to not take a stance later. He clearly isn't hiding and letting rayn and you fight.
I am confident that in our group the lynch will be quite easy because you are digging yourself into such a deep tunnel and Steve seems to be quite rational & townie, making it quite easy to townread Steve and really just see your tunnel as a scum shitting up the thread rather than a townie really really being on the wrong track.
Lol, at least we can agree on one thing XD dat timing
On April 02 2014 22:17 raynpelikonoshi wrote: gumshoe You still haven't commented on Steveling. Can you do so?
You first, I've been waiting on your thoughts before I post mine ( : do me the curtesy?
I like his filterdive on you because he touches the same points as I do, and he did that before he filterdives us. I noticed that he didn't take a hard stance on which of us is scum after his dive even though he sees you way scummier than us. But I have no problem with that because reading his filterdive of you makes it very hard for him to not take a stance later. He clearly isn't hiding and letting rayn and you fight.
I am confident that in our group the lynch will be quite easy because you are digging yourself into such a deep tunnel and Steve seems to be quite rational & townie, making it quite easy to townread Steve and really just see your tunnel as a scum shitting up the thread rather than a townie really really being on the wrong track.
Lol, at least we can agree on one thing XD dat timing
I would seriously suggest to start reading into other cells. Because you stopped doing that to tunnel rayn.
On April 02 2014 22:17 raynpelikonoshi wrote: gumshoe You still haven't commented on Steveling. Can you do so?
You first, I've been waiting on your thoughts before I post mine ( : do me the curtesy?
I like his filterdive on you because he touches the same points as I do, and he did that before he filterdives us. I noticed that he didn't take a hard stance on which of us is scum after his dive even though he sees you way scummier than us. But I have no problem with that because reading his filterdive of you makes it very hard for him to not take a stance later. He clearly isn't hiding and letting rayn and you fight.
I am confident that in our group the lynch will be quite easy because you are digging yourself into such a deep tunnel and Steve seems to be quite rational & townie, making it quite easy to townread Steve and really just see your tunnel as a scum shitting up the thread rather than a townie really really being on the wrong track.
I know you are but what am I : P your literally doing the exact same thing as me, but worse, also I made my case and moved on to give other reads, I'm just responding to every lie you spout about me because I know you love to say shit over and over as scum till everyone thinks its true.
If you wanna put this on the back burner so we can focus on other reads, I'm cool with that. It's up to you ( :
On April 02 2014 22:17 raynpelikonoshi wrote: gumshoe You still haven't commented on Steveling. Can you do so?
You first, I've been waiting on your thoughts before I post mine ( : do me the curtesy?
I like his filterdive on you because he touches the same points as I do, and he did that before he filterdives us. I noticed that he didn't take a hard stance on which of us is scum after his dive even though he sees you way scummier than us. But I have no problem with that because reading his filterdive of you makes it very hard for him to not take a stance later. He clearly isn't hiding and letting rayn and you fight.
I am confident that in our group the lynch will be quite easy because you are digging yourself into such a deep tunnel and Steve seems to be quite rational & townie, making it quite easy to townread Steve and really just see your tunnel as a scum shitting up the thread rather than a townie really really being on the wrong track.
Lol, at least we can agree on one thing XD dat timing
I would seriously suggest to start reading into other cells. Because you stopped doing that to tunnel rayn.
I already have ( : I'm just responding to all the crap Rayn's flung at me, he wants to call a truce I'll do that, otherwise it's blood for blood. Not letting him/scum dominate this thread as hes want to do.
On April 02 2014 22:17 raynpelikonoshi wrote: gumshoe You still haven't commented on Steveling. Can you do so?
You first, I've been waiting on your thoughts before I post mine ( : do me the curtesy?
I like his filterdive on you because he touches the same points as I do, and he did that before he filterdives us. I noticed that he didn't take a hard stance on which of us is scum after his dive even though he sees you way scummier than us. But I have no problem with that because reading his filterdive of you makes it very hard for him to not take a stance later. He clearly isn't hiding and letting rayn and you fight.
I am confident that in our group the lynch will be quite easy because you are digging yourself into such a deep tunnel and Steve seems to be quite rational & townie, making it quite easy to townread Steve and really just see your tunnel as a scum shitting up the thread rather than a townie really really being on the wrong track.
I know you are but what am I : P your literally doing the exact same thing as me, but worse, also I made my case and moved on to give other reads, I'm just responding to every lie you spout about me because I know you love to say shit over and over as scum till everyone thinks its true.
If you wanna put this on the back burner so we can focus on other reads, I'm cool with that. It's up to you ( :
You know you are talking to Koshi and not rayn right? There is a distinct difference.
Anyway, Koshi is also quite convinced you are the scum. I am currently wondering if you can make insightful posts, as that is the only thing that might make me revisit my read on you.
On April 02 2014 22:44 prplhz wrote: hey gum how you feel about palmar and flare?
Flare is scum probs, Plam I'm not sure yet ) : he thinks I'm scum and hes pretty cozy with Rayn, but his group is so hard to read, It still holds a total lurker (coag) and sentinel is resoundingly null. Need to see more out of them before I can be sure on him.
On April 02 2014 22:17 raynpelikonoshi wrote: gumshoe You still haven't commented on Steveling. Can you do so?
You first, I've been waiting on your thoughts before I post mine ( : do me the curtesy?
I like his filterdive on you because he touches the same points as I do, and he did that before he filterdives us. I noticed that he didn't take a hard stance on which of us is scum after his dive even though he sees you way scummier than us. But I have no problem with that because reading his filterdive of you makes it very hard for him to not take a stance later. He clearly isn't hiding and letting rayn and you fight.
I am confident that in our group the lynch will be quite easy because you are digging yourself into such a deep tunnel and Steve seems to be quite rational & townie, making it quite easy to townread Steve and really just see your tunnel as a scum shitting up the thread rather than a townie really really being on the wrong track.
I know you are but what am I : P your literally doing the exact same thing as me, but worse, also I made my case and moved on to give other reads, I'm just responding to every lie you spout about me because I know you love to say shit over and over as scum till everyone thinks its true.
If you wanna put this on the back burner so we can focus on other reads, I'm cool with that. It's up to you ( :
You know you are talking to Koshi and not rayn right? There is a distinct difference.
Anyway, Koshi is also quite convinced you are the scum. I am currently wondering if you can make insightful posts, as that is the only thing that might make me revisit my read on you.
So pls make them.
Wrong, I am talking to scum, there is no difference and I find this hydra shield pretty shitty because scum hydras always take advantage of thier dynamic because it somehow always works in their favour.
On April 02 2014 22:17 raynpelikonoshi wrote: gumshoe You still haven't commented on Steveling. Can you do so?
You first, I've been waiting on your thoughts before I post mine ( : do me the curtesy?
I like his filterdive on you because he touches the same points as I do, and he did that before he filterdives us. I noticed that he didn't take a hard stance on which of us is scum after his dive even though he sees you way scummier than us. But I have no problem with that because reading his filterdive of you makes it very hard for him to not take a stance later. He clearly isn't hiding and letting rayn and you fight.
I am confident that in our group the lynch will be quite easy because you are digging yourself into such a deep tunnel and Steve seems to be quite rational & townie, making it quite easy to townread Steve and really just see your tunnel as a scum shitting up the thread rather than a townie really really being on the wrong track.
I know you are but what am I : P your literally doing the exact same thing as me, but worse, also I made my case and moved on to give other reads, I'm just responding to every lie you spout about me because I know you love to say shit over and over as scum till everyone thinks its true.
If you wanna put this on the back burner so we can focus on other reads, I'm cool with that. It's up to you ( :
You know you are talking to Koshi and not rayn right? There is a distinct difference.
Anyway, Koshi is also quite convinced you are the scum. I am currently wondering if you can make insightful posts, as that is the only thing that might make me revisit my read on you.
So pls make them.
Wrong, I am talking to scum, there is no difference and I find this hydra shield pretty shitty because scum hydras always take advantage of thier dynamic because it somehow always works in their favour.
On April 02 2014 22:44 prplhz wrote: hey gum how you feel about palmar and flare?
Flare is scum probs, Plam I'm not sure yet ) : he thinks I'm scum and hes pretty cozy with Rayn, but his group is so hard to read, It still holds a total lurker (coag) and sentinel is resoundingly null. Need to see more out of them before I can be sure on him.
You agreed with me on mderg, then flipped that read 180 for bs reasons and then quoted something from cultured which didn't apply here at all and then ignored the actual part in this game where i explain things.
Want to restate your answer as holyflare - town now?
On April 02 2014 05:46 Steveling wrote: Was watching champions league. Sleep time, will catch up on everything tomorrow.
Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly?
On April 02 2014 05:46 Steveling wrote: Was watching champions league. Sleep time, will catch up on everything tomorrow.
Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly?
Rayn watcha think?
I read bla bla bla can't tell if true or false because impossilble to know if he went to sleep or not.
I dunno, why should i think something? getmoript is mafia agreed or not?
On April 02 2014 05:46 Steveling wrote: Was watching champions league. Sleep time, will catch up on everything tomorrow.
Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly?
Rayn watcha think?
I read bla bla bla can't tell if true or false because impossilble to know if he went to sleep or not.
I dunno, why should i think something? getmoript is mafia agreed or not?
~rayn
I'm just curios if you had thoughts on steve, or any history with him I should know of / :
Now here other stuff happens and both of me and gumshoe discuss other things. Later on i revisit the argument and it bothers me because it looks weird. I ask gumshoe this:
On April 02 2014 05:46 Steveling wrote: Was watching champions league. Sleep time, will catch up on everything tomorrow.
Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly?
Rayn watcha think?
I am trying so hard to think about this post and what the fuck is the point of all this. gumshoe what's the point of all this?
On April 02 2014 08:43 raynpelikonoshi wrote: yes please.
~rayn
I was offering an olive branch to see your reaction. No I wasn't honestly going after Steve with so little, but you know I'm capable of weird arguments like that so If your scum you have to consider 2 things, if I'm genuine and if your better off tentatively agreeing with me or turning on me for that silly read.
Now read the red part and the green part. Both are gumshoe's answers. Both cannot possibly be true. Agreed? Yes, good. Now this leads us to the following:
gumshoe says he laid a trap on me and i did not take the bait. Okay, maybe this is true. However why this is scummy is because the trap and the conclusion from it happened before gumshoe makes his green explanation. If it was truly a trap gumshoe has his conclusion already. In this case he would post the red part instead of lying and posting the green part in the first place. There is absolutely no reason to lie about the motivation behind your argument when asked, especially when you have already gotten your conclusion!!
There is no town motivation for gumshoe to do what he did. This also leads me to: Point #2: gumshoe's contradicting stance regarding readability and what it means:
I made a post about this already. It's here:
On April 02 2014 10:21 raynpelikonoshi wrote: So i went to see if Holyflare is hard to read for gumshoe. Turns out he had a pretty clear read on him in World Heavyweight mafia game (where he was town) half past D1. I also found this:
On March 28 2014 01:30 Holyflare wrote: because it is so wrong, not reading your pm enables you to be towny because you have no hesitation about finding your partner at that point because you don't know who he is so your entire reason for voting palmar is incredibly weird.....
not to mention he actually claimed scum, why haven't you commented on that instead?
Cause I'm not there yet : P and I disagree, bieng readable is a big part of bieng town, if you make your self unreadable you can't be trusted. I'm not going to argue with you about this because it's retarded to think otherwise.
However as me and gumshoe talk about being readable in this game his stance is this:
On April 02 2014 08:54 raynpelikonoshi wrote: Why didn't you say so in the first place when i gave my answer and asked the same question?
~rayn
Because there's a 50 percent chance your scum therefore I owe you no favours, and I didn't catch anything worth bringing up at that moment.
So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"? Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm.
~rayn
"Mafia is about finding scum, period" your words not mine, why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? You opinion is literally a coin flip away from worthless to me. If you can't read me, that's not my fault, I am playing the game as I see fit, your bieng shit at reads doesn't factor in to my play.
Here i present you our first...... Confirmed scumscumscumscumscum!!!! ezpz
~rayn
Look at the post.
In the green part gumshoe, as town in the last game we played, claims his stance. He says "being readable is a big part of good town play. It's retarded to think otherwise."
In the red part gumshoe claims his stance in this game. You need to remember this has to do with the point #1 i presented. I have an argument that gumshoe is mafia because he is lying. I want to know why gumshoe is lying and if he has an explanation regarding why it makes sense to lie here as town. His stance is "why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? If you can't read me, that's not my fault."
Why this is scummy? Because town!gumshoe PROVABLY thinks the exact opposite he claims in this game. He only says what he does in this game because he lied and can't explain it in any other way. His explanation does not match with what town!gumshoe thinks. Noone can possibly have a contradicting stance on what is the optimal play for a townie regarding being readable or not when they are town, it's impossible, regardless of the game or situation! Point #3: gumshoe is dodging arguments and working against his own heuristics + :
I'll just make a list of these:
gumshoe refuses to answer my case on him and fearmongers something about "you can't read me scum because Steveling bla bla". That's didging an argument, Steveling not posting has nothing to do with if gumshoe is scum or not
As Balla already pointed out then gumshoe calls me mafia for this. In case gumshoe's logic as town was "you can't call me scum because the other dude has not posted" he can't based on his own logic call me mafia for that. The point is not if this is true or not, the point is if gumshoe thinks this is a good heuristic he can't possibly forget it when it comes to me. He is selectively choosing to apply his heuristics when they benefit him and forget's them when they don't.
gumshoe refuses to comment on my arguments on his case on me. Instead of telling people why i am wrong (i must be if i am scum and he has a good case on me right?) he only makes the same case again and hammers the same answered points over and over again. See my pretty picture. That's not how townies work.
EPT
have openly attacked mderg.
