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Well I'm back for a short while.
I don't really know what to make of Palmar. He seems to have the apathetic mannerisms I remember him having, but the whole mayor thing doesn't seem like much of a tell one way or another. It doesn't make enough of a difference for town/scum to do something different.
I'd really appreciate Coag coming back into this game so at least I can weigh the two side-by-side
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On April 02 2014 12:11 Alakaslam wrote:
I think people will find Aspergers Syndrome does really royally mess with written tone, quite as it does with irl.
Every sentence of yours that doesn't end with a period ends up sounding giddy to me, I don't know why
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On April 03 2014 03:55 Holyflare wrote:
this game mode really fucking sucks when there are lurkers, prime scum strategy is to lurk
I thought prime scum strat was to go after lurkers for easy pickins because they don't put up any counterpoints.
I return, time to filter dive cell 1 and post thoughts
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First off, gumshoe because his filter came up first:
Steve dived him here which I'd like to somewhat expound on. The conversation he brings up:
On April 02 2014 09:34 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 09:21 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 09:14 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 09:03 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 08:56 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 08:54 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
Why didn't you say so in the first place when i gave my answer and asked the same question?
~rayn Because there's a 50 percent chance your scum therefore I owe you no favours, and I didn't catch anything worth bringing up at that moment. So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"? Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm. ~rayn "Mafia is about finding scum, period" your words not mine, why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? You opinion is literally a coin flip away from worthless to me. If you can't read me, that's not my fault, I am playing the game as I see fit, your bieng shit at reads doesn't factor in to my play. So your honest opinion is that you don't need to give away your alignment to anyone but everyone needs to do so to you? Also another question. We have 2 imaginary groups X and Y. In group X there is confimed mafia. In group Y there are 3 people who are all really hard to read. Which of the following scenarios in your opinion results more likely in 2 scumlynches: 1) Lynch the confirmed scum in group X, and have 96 hours to figure out the mafia in group Y, or 2) Figure out the mafia in group Y in 48 hours, then lynch the confirmed scum in group X ? I have answered every question directed at me so far, but I feel no need to divulge information that might jeopardize my efforts to trip up scum unless I don't have much choice I. The matter. Especially when it comes to the person whose my default top scum read. As for your question, 2' because confirmed scum isn't going anywhere. They can be literally killed at any time and I rather lynch question marks while everyone is still invested in the game. I have taken on this mind set strictly because the setup holds no surprises. If I'm scum, why would I champion something like that if my buddy gets lynched by day3 anyways? What do I gain aside from towns ire?
While going for unconfirmed scum first is fishy (and scummy), what stood out to me was gum's resistance to providing information further within the quote. This is looking like town play, just very bad town play - if I was a scum in gumshoe's position I wouldn't want to encourage rayn to make red reads on me. I'd actually be paying a lot more attention to what rayn is saying and trying to get either him or Steve into the frying pan. As town, gum can be full of hubris. As scum, it's attracting way too much attention, and someone in the QT would have shut him up. I do agree with steve that the other part of that quote is pretty scummy thinking though.
On April 02 2014 22:15 gumshoe wrote:You very talented Rayn, too bad your scum. Let me give my side once and for all Gum baits Rayn cause HE DOESNT KNOW HIS ALIGNMENT BECAUSE HES TOWN FIGURING OUT THE GAME. Findings are inconclusive, Gum goes to talk to other people, Rayn attacks Gum for lying, Gum tells Rayn he has no reason to be completely transparent with a likely scum read. Rayn twists this into Gum hates town and calls him super duper mega confirmed scum. Gum is suspicious of how certain he is before hearing steve talk, gum realizes Rayn is accusing him the same way as witchcraft. Gum goes after him / : Whats scummy about any of this?
Gum's rage here returns to the same vein as where he ignored rayn previously: he discredits rayn's case because he's not sure of it, and goes after the meta instead. While this one post in a vacuum rings scum - he's dismissing evidence that goes against him instead of countering it, waving it aside as rayn twisting words, and tries to justify his obscuring of information that could help town at this point - it's very consistent with his mentality earlier. I can see this as another evidence of bad town play, with gumshoe missing the point of hunting scum but instead getting extremely defensive about rayn's comments, and "figuring out the game" on his own.
On April 02 2014 22:28 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 18:15 Steveling wrote:I'm now filtering gumshoe, will be posting one liners as I'm reading through it. Hahahaha, gum <3333, that short description of me you made, haha, that's the gum I remember. Gum immediately gets some town points because he asks for his cellmate for thoughts on me, not random people. I explained my reasoning in my previous post. Ummm, gum defending getript, is weird. I will have to filter getript as well to form a better opinion. Btw I think it's weird not as a scam-defends-scam thing but because getript wasn't making much sense at first glance and I recall gum from our game together as a good player, albeit with some suicidal weird plans but good overall. -town points for that but I will have to check getript as well later. I don't like how he blindly agrees with palmar on mayor'ing him. Pls vote people by their activity and quality of posts not by their reputation. Hmm, gum gets some scam points for the following bit On April 02 2014 09:34 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 09:21 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 09:14 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 09:03 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 08:56 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 08:54 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
Why didn't you say so in the first place when i gave my answer and asked the same question?
~rayn Because there's a 50 percent chance your scum therefore I owe you no favours, and I didn't catch anything worth bringing up at that moment. So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"? Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm. ~rayn "Mafia is about finding scum, period" your words not mine, why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? You opinion is literally a coin flip away from worthless to me. If you can't read me, that's not my fault, I am playing the game as I see fit, your bieng shit at reads doesn't factor in to my play. So your honest opinion is that you don't need to give away your alignment to anyone but everyone needs to do so to you? Also another question. We have 2 imaginary groups X and Y. In group X there is confimed mafia. In group Y there are 3 people who are all really hard to read. Which of the following scenarios in your opinion results more likely in 2 scumlynches: 1) Lynch the confirmed scum in group X, and have 96 hours to figure out the mafia in group Y, or 2) Figure out the mafia in group Y in 48 hours, then lynch the confirmed scum in group X ? As for your question, 2' because confirmed scum isn't going anywhere. They can be literally killed at any time and I rather lynch question marks while everyone is still invested in the game. I have taken on this mind set strictly because the setup holds no surprises. If I'm scum, why would I champion something like that if my buddy gets lynched by day3 anyways? What do I gain aside from towns ire? Open the quote to read rayns question. Srsly gum, wtf, you shouldn't be making that kind of mistake. You basically proposed to scumhunt and coin flip the first day lynch so IF we get lucky we end up with 2 semi-confirmed scum instead of taking sowing what's ripe in day1. Alright gum about that big meta post you did on rayn. Honestly I think it's bad, you claim he accuses you of scumplay and you quote 3 previous games to prove that somehow the meta works for you? You say that "ey guys, I lied there to scumbait, rayn was falsely accusing me, so I'm doing the same thing here", can't you understand how wrong this is? Rayn has every reason in the world to accuse you in both games. Anyway, I remember that was your playstyle as well in our game together so I won't award you with scumpoints for this but if you keep at it, you are getting on my scumlist, period. You end up this post with Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum. Again flawed logic, wouldn't I be the easy target here and not you, a player with 4 pages of filter already? I like your comment on mderg On April 02 2014 13:13 gumshoe wrote:Fun fact, Steve coag and Ceph have not yet started playing really, leaving them out, six people (myself included )  have openly attacked mderg. Geript I'm fairly confident that mderg is the scum in Cell 2. I'm probably going to talk with g more and see what we can dig up from this one, because I'm actually kind of afraid to townread HF after the stunt he pulled in Cultured (which was fucking awesome, btw). Tehpoofter Makes me think Mderg scummy Sentinal town Holy Mderg is mafia in my group btw, that's an easy one. Rayn I noticed this too. I asked Koshi what does he think of this mderg guy and he said it seemed strage how he came in straight up defending the one dude in our group. Too crazy that he instant defended a scumbuddy out of nowhere so if mderg guy ends up being scum gumshoe can die in a fire.
It all fits! Gumshoe Whats your relation to Steveling, whats your general impression of his play and why did you feel the need to answer a question intended for someone else. Do you think Rayn is scum? Balla
We can talk about plenty. How mderg's posts so far have been useless and scummy maybe?
Mderg is a lurky/noobish player, bad play coming out of him deserves due consideration. 50 percent of this games active players (I am not counting lurkers) find this guy scummy in a game where a third of us are scum. Yeah... lynching this guy is not getting us a red flip. I believe there are some scum in this list you made gum. My personal opinion on mderg is that the only town read he has going for himself is when he defended me. He must have seen me posting in the football thread and he just said what he reasoned out. He's inactive or posting fluff, so I'm leaning towards scum for him but the bus'ing against him and the fact he's new made me think otherwise. All in all I'm pretty confused with gum, I'm leaning neutral on him atm, can't make my mind. I love this post BECAUSE it's riddled with uncertainty, this game is filled with people who have perfect reads (cause scum) it's a breath of fresh air to see someone who legit not sure of whose scum in his cell. If steve was scum, he could easily attack me or Rayn, and the way were going at it the non pick might just support his choice whole heartedly. Unfortunately for scum, steve is not just truing to survive his cell, dude be figuring shit out ( : good genuine effort in this post and a stance I feel is most likely town. Steve is cool.
This post is actually one of the more logical ones gum's made up to this point, although I feel like you could make the counter-argument that Steve is simply playing neutral and doing both the positives and the negatives of gum's play.
A huge shitstorm ensues over rayn's case. Point 2 is very scummy looking especially as gum claims he only wants to appear readable to town and not scum. The lack of nightkills makes this point look very hard to justify... he really can't be silenced by a scummy mayor, since majority would be against sending group 1 to the chopping block first, and we'd have a scum who painted a big red target on his face.
Rest of filter seems to simply reinforce notions he had before. Gum's got one thing going for him and that's consistency to a fault: he's picked some key points (don't be 100% transparent, rayn is scum, steve is town, geript is a pretty towny player), and stuck to them, to the point where I'm wondering if he's simply using his earlier play to justify his later notions. I guess that's a bad-town thing to do, especially since he really can't hide an ally by putting himself into the spotlight.
Overall I'm thinking town on gum simply because a scum, even a bad one, would have no incentive to become the most targetable figure in Cell 1, and that it's a lot less convoluted to try to justify his beliefs as careless town compared to scum.
I'll take a look at rayn once I return from work tonight.
@LSB I played with you two years ago and you made me your bitch. That wasn't very fun.
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I got a little time before I have to work.
On April 03 2014 05:59 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2014 05:20 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:First off, gumshoe because his filter came up first: Steve dived him here which I'd like to somewhat expound on. The conversation he brings up: On April 02 2014 09:34 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 09:21 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 09:14 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 09:03 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 08:56 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 08:54 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
Why didn't you say so in the first place when i gave my answer and asked the same question?
~rayn Because there's a 50 percent chance your scum therefore I owe you no favours, and I didn't catch anything worth bringing up at that moment. So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"? Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm. ~rayn "Mafia is about finding scum, period" your words not mine, why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? You opinion is literally a coin flip away from worthless to me. If you can't read me, that's not my fault, I am playing the game as I see fit, your bieng shit at reads doesn't factor in to my play. So your honest opinion is that you don't need to give away your alignment to anyone but everyone needs to do so to you? Also another question. We have 2 imaginary groups X and Y. In group X there is confimed mafia. In group Y there are 3 people who are all really hard to read. Which of the following scenarios in your opinion results more likely in 2 scumlynches: 1) Lynch the confirmed scum in group X, and have 96 hours to figure out the mafia in group Y, or 2) Figure out the mafia in group Y in 48 hours, then lynch the confirmed scum in group X ? I have answered every question directed at me so far, but I feel no need to divulge information that might jeopardize my efforts to trip up scum unless I don't have much choice I. The matter. Especially when it comes to the person whose my default top scum read. As for your question, 2' because confirmed scum isn't going anywhere. They can be literally killed at any time and I rather lynch question marks while everyone is still invested in the game. I have taken on this mind set strictly because the setup holds no surprises. If I'm scum, why would I champion something like that if my buddy gets lynched by day3 anyways? What do I gain aside from towns ire? While going for unconfirmed scum first is fishy (and scummy), what stood out to me was gum's resistance to providing information further within the quote. This is looking like town play, just very bad town play - if I was a scum in gumshoe's position I wouldn't want to encourage rayn to make red reads on me. I'd actually be paying a lot more attention to what rayn is saying and trying to get either him or Steve into the frying pan. As town, gum can be full of hubris. As scum, it's attracting way too much attention, and someone in the QT would have shut him up. I do agree with steve that the other part of that quote is pretty scummy thinking though. On April 02 2014 22:15 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 22:10 raynpelikonoshi wrote:![[image loading]](http://i61.tinypic.com/qpnztt.png) ~rayn You very talented Rayn, too bad your scum. Let me give my side once and for all Gum baits Rayn cause HE DOESNT KNOW HIS ALIGNMENT BECAUSE HES TOWN FIGURING OUT THE GAME. Findings are inconclusive, Gum goes to talk to other people, Rayn attacks Gum for lying, Gum tells Rayn he has no reason to be completely transparent with a likely scum read. Rayn twists this into Gum hates town and calls him super duper mega confirmed scum. Gum is suspicious of how certain he is before hearing steve talk, gum realizes Rayn is accusing him the same way as witchcraft. Gum goes after him / : Whats scummy about any of this? Gum's rage here returns to the same vein as where he ignored rayn previously: he discredits rayn's case because he's not sure of it, and goes after the meta instead. While this one post in a vacuum rings scum - he's dismissing evidence that goes against him instead of countering it, waving it aside as rayn twisting words, and tries to justify his obscuring of information that could help town at this point - it's very consistent with his mentality earlier. I can see this as another evidence of bad town play, with gumshoe missing the point of hunting scum but instead getting extremely defensive about rayn's comments, and "figuring out the game" on his own. On April 02 2014 22:28 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 18:15 Steveling wrote:I'm now filtering gumshoe, will be posting one liners as I'm reading through it. Hahahaha, gum <3333, that short description of me you made, haha, that's the gum I remember. Gum immediately gets some town points because he asks for his cellmate for thoughts on me, not random people. I explained my reasoning in my previous post. Ummm, gum defending getript, is weird. I will have to filter getript as well to form a better opinion. Btw I think it's weird not as a scam-defends-scam thing but because getript wasn't making much sense at first glance and I recall gum from our game together as a good player, albeit with some suicidal weird plans but good overall. -town points for that but I will have to check getript as well later. I don't like how he blindly agrees with palmar on mayor'ing him. Pls vote people by their activity and quality of posts not by their reputation. Hmm, gum gets some scam points for the following bit On April 02 2014 09:34 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 09:21 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 09:14 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 09:03 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 08:56 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 08:54 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
Why didn't you say so in the first place when i gave my answer and asked the same question?
~rayn Because there's a 50 percent chance your scum therefore I owe you no favours, and I didn't catch anything worth bringing up at that moment. So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"? Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm. ~rayn "Mafia is about finding scum, period" your words not mine, why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? You opinion is literally a coin flip away from worthless to me. If you can't read me, that's not my fault, I am playing the game as I see fit, your bieng shit at reads doesn't factor in to my play. So your honest opinion is that you don't need to give away your alignment to anyone but everyone needs to do so to you? Also another question. We have 2 imaginary groups X and Y. In group X there is confimed mafia. In group Y there are 3 people who are all really hard to read. Which of the following scenarios in your opinion results more likely in 2 scumlynches: 1) Lynch the confirmed scum in group X, and have 96 hours to figure out the mafia in group Y, or 2) Figure out the mafia in group Y in 48 hours, then lynch the confirmed scum in group X ? As for your question, 2' because confirmed scum isn't going anywhere. They can be literally killed at any time and I rather lynch question marks while everyone is still invested in the game. I have taken on this mind set strictly because the setup holds no surprises. If I'm scum, why would I champion something like that if my buddy gets lynched by day3 anyways? What do I gain aside from towns ire? Open the quote to read rayns question. Srsly gum, wtf, you shouldn't be making that kind of mistake. You basically proposed to scumhunt and coin flip the first day lynch so IF we get lucky we end up with 2 semi-confirmed scum instead of taking sowing what's ripe in day1. Alright gum about that big meta post you did on rayn. Honestly I think it's bad, you claim he accuses you of scumplay and you quote 3 previous games to prove that somehow the meta works for you? You say that "ey guys, I lied there to scumbait, rayn was falsely accusing me, so I'm doing the same thing here", can't you understand how wrong this is? Rayn has every reason in the world to accuse you in both games. Anyway, I remember that was your playstyle as well in our game together so I won't award you with scumpoints for this but if you keep at it, you are getting on my scumlist, period. You end up this post with Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum. Again flawed logic, wouldn't I be the easy target here and not you, a player with 4 pages of filter already? I like your comment on mderg On April 02 2014 13:13 gumshoe wrote:Fun fact, Steve coag and Ceph have not yet started playing really, leaving them out, six people (myself included ) have openly attacked mderg. Geript I'm fairly confident that mderg is the scum in Cell 2. I'm probably going to talk with g more and see what we can dig up from this one, because I'm actually kind of afraid to townread HF after the stunt he pulled in Cultured (which was fucking awesome, btw). Tehpoofter Makes me think Mderg scummy Sentinal town Holy Mderg is mafia in my group btw, that's an easy one. Rayn I noticed this too. I asked Koshi what does he think of this mderg guy and he said it seemed strage how he came in straight up defending the one dude in our group. Too crazy that he instant defended a scumbuddy out of nowhere so if mderg guy ends up being scum gumshoe can die in a fire.
It all fits! Gumshoe Whats your relation to Steveling, whats your general impression of his play and why did you feel the need to answer a question intended for someone else. Do you think Rayn is scum? Balla
We can talk about plenty. How mderg's posts so far have been useless and scummy maybe?
Mderg is a lurky/noobish player, bad play coming out of him deserves due consideration. 50 percent of this games active players (I am not counting lurkers) find this guy scummy in a game where a third of us are scum. Yeah... lynching this guy is not getting us a red flip. I believe there are some scum in this list you made gum. My personal opinion on mderg is that the only town read he has going for himself is when he defended me. He must have seen me posting in the football thread and he just said what he reasoned out. He's inactive or posting fluff, so I'm leaning towards scum for him but the bus'ing against him and the fact he's new made me think otherwise. All in all I'm pretty confused with gum, I'm leaning neutral on him atm, can't make my mind. I love this post BECAUSE it's riddled with uncertainty, this game is filled with people who have perfect reads (cause scum) it's a breath of fresh air to see someone who legit not sure of whose scum in his cell. If steve was scum, he could easily attack me or Rayn, and the way were going at it the non pick might just support his choice whole heartedly. Unfortunately for scum, steve is not just truing to survive his cell, dude be figuring shit out ( : good genuine effort in this post and a stance I feel is most likely town. Steve is cool. This post is actually one of the more logical ones gum's made up to this point, although I feel like you could make the counter-argument that Steve is simply playing neutral and doing both the positives and the negatives of gum's play. A huge shitstorm ensues over rayn's case. Point 2 is very scummy looking especially as gum claims he only wants to appear readable to town and not scum. The lack of nightkills makes this point look very hard to justify... he really can't be silenced by a scummy mayor, since majority would be against sending group 1 to the chopping block first, and we'd have a scum who painted a big red target on his face. Rest of filter seems to simply reinforce notions he had before. Gum's got one thing going for him and that's consistency to a fault: he's picked some key points (don't be 100% transparent, rayn is scum, steve is town, geript is a pretty towny player), and stuck to them, to the point where I'm wondering if he's simply using his earlier play to justify his later notions. I guess that's a bad-town thing to do, especially since he really can't hide an ally by putting himself into the spotlight.
Overall I'm thinking town on gum simply because a scum, even a bad one, would have no incentive to become the most targetable figure in Cell 1, and that it's a lot less convoluted to try to justify his beliefs as careless town compared to scum. I'll take a look at rayn once I return from work tonight. @LSB I played with you two years ago and you made me your bitch. That wasn't very fun. So whose scum in our cell? You say the most logical thing Ive said was how Steveling is town. Do you agree with that? If Rayns scum, why doesnt he just ride me to finish line?
Not too sure about rayn - I'll have to reread him after I get off.
Steveling is one sketchy motherfucker now:
On April 03 2014 01:08 Steveling wrote:
I read your mayor post raynkoshi.
Honestly you are probably my most town read so I don't have a problem.
As for me I don't have a clue about mayor'ing and stuff.
Do we want scum or town mayor in this setup?
If his greenest read is rayn, that would indicate that you, gum, are his scumread for Cell 1. Except he never really says anything in that regard. He leans "neutral" in his filter dive of you, and then only really gets pissed at your play and you "betting your life" on him being the scum. That looks more like frustration than accusation.
To me it looks like Steve doesn't have a concrete scumread, only a strong townread and a neutral read that has to be scum due to process of elimination.
@Steve - If you still have a green read on rayn, tell me why gumshoe is scum and not town, based on solely his own play through this game.
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Why wouldn't Steve have a definite red target in his own cell?
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Rayn has over one-fifth of the posts in this game. This is going to be a fun filter dive.
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A general impression from a quick skim of the 13 pages of roshi's filter:
If I had to distinguish between town rayn and scum rayn, is that rayn plays scum like CNN - seemingly factual, but carefully omitting anything that doesn't support it, and shifting away the attention before anyone starts asking "why?"
The case on gumshoe seems a bit myopic but legitimate, something I'd see coming from yamato more than rayn. Sure it's very detailed and sourced but it's almost to the point where rayn's letting his frustration with gum lead his argument instead of the other way around. More Fox than CNN.
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On April 03 2014 11:54 raynpelikonoshi wrote:Yeah in a situation where he actually should have been considered confirmed town. 120 pages into the game, not 24h into D1.... rofl Sentinel. Go look at Survivor series. ~rayn
I'll actually concede that one to you.
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I'm off for the night as well.
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On April 03 2014 12:19 Tehpoofter wrote:
So I'm really glad that I just read through 20 pages of gum/rayn fighting. Going into it I had a town read on rayn scum on gum and null on steve. Coming out of it gum looks even scummier steve looks scummy and so does rayn tbh. (there has to be 2 towns in each group right?)
Like I could make cases on all of you guys,
GUM: basically to me Rayn's case on gum is really strong he pretends to set some trap that doesn't work (but seems like it would only catch town if it did work) and then calls rayn scum for it. I thought rayn refuted his claim pretty well and answered some questions on it. Balla brought up a good point last night about how gum accussed rayn of doing the same thing he was doing in ignoring steve and being scummy for it. I think gum went into mega defensive mode and just started throwing shit at rayn and rayn did the same until rayn saw gum say he swears hes town.
Tell me what scum gum's rationale would be for blatantly ignoring rayn's criticisms when rayn is one of the most sheep-able people on this forum.
Rayn: Looks good for his case on gum then does this 180 and instantly believes him on the thing he said about swearing. I find it really odd that logical rayn town would drop his biggest case on someone he knows has a 50/50 of being scum just because he said one thing. This makes rayn look scummier in my eyes because he might have felt like others would see that and if he kept tunneling he would out himself if he were scum so he hipster switched so he could be the first one to say thats the case. (For me this means nothing btw its a game about lying I expect anyone in here would say anything to not look more town as scum and I would never fault anyone for it, I'd swear on my grandma's grave I was town and my grandma isn't even dead) So I find this really odd of rayn to switch here.
Steve: Steve then has like the weirdest reaction ever and says someone is cheating and starts getting all emo and bent out of shape about something that to me just made his cellmate rayn look more scummy and changed nothing on my read on gum. So If I was steve I would be asking the mod why he put two scum in my group not going on about cheating and such.
Last I checked, Steve had a townread on rayn and was very timidly pointing his finger at gum. This whole thing about setup being botched is a joke IMO.
Even if they didn't change your opinions on gum/steve, could you give me some thoughts on the interactions between the two of them? As in Steve's thoughts on gum and vice versa
So after 20 pages of bullshit-in-fighting of one cell if this were a normal game I'd probably lynch all of them and assume I hit at least 2 scum. In this game sadly only 1 is scum and 2 are town. So rayn's case on gum looks like it comes from a town point of view and maybe he is just a reactionary player and did the swap onto steve because he has some weird set of mafia morals that I would never follow so I'll give rayn the town pass here. (Now later on in the thread I think he makes other contributions to be more townie as well so this got strengthened even more so)
Steve emo quitting reminds me of rayn doing the same thing in Titanic about coag being a hydra. Rayn emod for a couple hours and turned out to be town here so I'm going to assume thats what is happening here cause I still haven't seen gum do anything really very townie and there can be only one scum. (I also have more reasons on steve here in a second based on another read.)
Rayn is not Steve, and the reasons they gave up hope were completely different and under different circumstances. Rayn continued to post very actively while Steve seems to have gone off the radar as he came closer and closer to bedtime, although that might change tomorrow.
This is probably the weakest point in your argument.
Right now Scum=Gum, Rayn = Town, Steve = Town cause gum is scum.
I'd just like to say this is exactly what scum would have wanted in this game and why my plan was amazing and if you guys focused elsewhere the reads would be more spread out and varied and could be scumx2 or 3xtown or something but instead we have 20 pages of fighting that might net us 1 scum and thats only if one becomes obvious which to me it hasnt. /end rant on my system as I still read Balla/Rayn as town and they both think its shit.
More on other scum that popped up during the Cell 1 Battle royale.
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Now I'm off though. I'm down to under six hours of sleep tonight and I can only get so much sleep in physics tomorrow.
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I have to leave before deadline, but I'm voting for rayn. Steve's case is fundamentally flawed from the beginning:
On April 03 2014 18:57 Steveling wrote:There's only one question here, why did they do that? I couldn't think of anything until I read multiple posts while filtering regarding the reason that scumryankoshi did what they did and it dawned on me. Here are some tidbits Show nested quote +On April 03 2014 07:04 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
To me it looks like Steve doesn't have a concrete scumread, only a strong townread and a neutral read that has to be scum due to process of elimination. Show nested quote +On April 03 2014 01:03 mderg wrote:On April 03 2014 00:51 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
mderg,
Could you provide some reads? You entered the thread with a very generic statement. how do you read:
raynpelikonoshi
gumshoe
Steveling Steveling - neutral It seems towny to me that he was unsure about gumshoe when filtering his posts(why would scum be unsure). Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 22:28 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 18:15 Steveling wrote:I'm now filtering gumshoe, will be posting one liners as I'm reading through it. Hahahaha, gum <3333, that short description of me you made, haha, that's the gum I remember. Gum immediately gets some town points because he asks for his cellmate for thoughts on me, not random people. I explained my reasoning in my previous post. Ummm, gum defending getript, is weird. I will have to filter getript as well to form a better opinion. Btw I think it's weird not as a scam-defends-scam thing but because getript wasn't making much sense at first glance and I recall gum from our game together as a good player, albeit with some suicidal weird plans but good overall. -town points for that but I will have to check getript as well later. I don't like how he blindly agrees with palmar on mayor'ing him. Pls vote people by their activity and quality of posts not by their reputation. Hmm, gum gets some scam points for the following bit On April 02 2014 09:34 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 09:21 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 09:14 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 09:03 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 08:56 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 08:54 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
Why didn't you say so in the first place when i gave my answer and asked the same question?
~rayn Because there's a 50 percent chance your scum therefore I owe you no favours, and I didn't catch anything worth bringing up at that moment. So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"? Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm. ~rayn "Mafia is about finding scum, period" your words not mine, why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? You opinion is literally a coin flip away from worthless to me. If you can't read me, that's not my fault, I am playing the game as I see fit, your bieng shit at reads doesn't factor in to my play. So your honest opinion is that you don't need to give away your alignment to anyone but everyone needs to do so to you? Also another question. We have 2 imaginary groups X and Y. In group X there is confimed mafia. In group Y there are 3 people who are all really hard to read. Which of the following scenarios in your opinion results more likely in 2 scumlynches: 1) Lynch the confirmed scum in group X, and have 96 hours to figure out the mafia in group Y, or 2) Figure out the mafia in group Y in 48 hours, then lynch the confirmed scum in group X ? As for your question, 2' because confirmed scum isn't going anywhere. They can be literally killed at any time and I rather lynch question marks while everyone is still invested in the game. I have taken on this mind set strictly because the setup holds no surprises. If I'm scum, why would I champion something like that if my buddy gets lynched by day3 anyways? What do I gain aside from towns ire? Open the quote to read rayns question. Srsly gum, wtf, you shouldn't be making that kind of mistake. You basically proposed to scumhunt and coin flip the first day lynch so IF we get lucky we end up with 2 semi-confirmed scum instead of taking sowing what's ripe in day1. Alright gum about that big meta post you did on rayn. Honestly I think it's bad, you claim he accuses you of scumplay and you quote 3 previous games to prove that somehow the meta works for you? You say that "ey guys, I lied there to scumbait, rayn was falsely accusing me, so I'm doing the same thing here", can't you understand how wrong this is? Rayn has every reason in the world to accuse you in both games. Anyway, I remember that was your playstyle as well in our game together so I won't award you with scumpoints for this but if you keep at it, you are getting on my scumlist, period. You end up this post with Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum. Again flawed logic, wouldn't I be the easy target here and not you, a player with 4 pages of filter already? I like your comment on mderg On April 02 2014 13:13 gumshoe wrote:Fun fact, Steve coag and Ceph have not yet started playing really, leaving them out, six people (myself included ) have openly attacked mderg. Geript I'm fairly confident that mderg is the scum in Cell 2. I'm probably going to talk with g more and see what we can dig up from this one, because I'm actually kind of afraid to townread HF after the stunt he pulled in Cultured (which was fucking awesome, btw). Tehpoofter Makes me think Mderg scummy Sentinal town Holy Mderg is mafia in my group btw, that's an easy one. Rayn I noticed this too. I asked Koshi what does he think of this mderg guy and he said it seemed strage how he came in straight up defending the one dude in our group. Too crazy that he instant defended a scumbuddy out of nowhere so if mderg guy ends up being scum gumshoe can die in a fire.
It all fits! Gumshoe Whats your relation to Steveling, whats your general impression of his play and why did you feel the need to answer a question intended for someone else. Do you think Rayn is scum? Balla
We can talk about plenty. How mderg's posts so far have been useless and scummy maybe?
Mderg is a lurky/noobish player, bad play coming out of him deserves due consideration. 50 percent of this games active players (I am not counting lurkers) find this guy scummy in a game where a third of us are scum. Yeah... lynching this guy is not getting us a red flip. I believe there are some scum in this list you made gum. My personal opinion on mderg is that the only town read he has going for himself is when he defended me. He must have seen me posting in the football thread and he just said what he reasoned out. He's inactive or posting fluff, so I'm leaning towards scum for him but the bus'ing against him and the fact he's new made me think otherwise. All in all I'm pretty confused with gum, I'm leaning neutral on him atm, can't make my mind. I love this post BECAUSE it's riddled with uncertainty, this game is filled with people who have perfect reads (cause scum) it's a breath of fresh air to see someone who legit not sure of whose scum in his cell. If steve was scum, he could easily attack me or Rayn, and the way were going at it the non pick might just support his choice whole heartedly. Unfortunately for scum, steve is not just truing to survive his cell, dude be figuring shit out ( : good genuine effort in this post and a stance I feel is most likely town. Steve is cool. Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 13:15 Balla24 wrote:On April 02 2014 13:00 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 12:50 Balla24 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 02 2014 12:36 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 12:22 Balla24 wrote:Gumshoe that case is all over the place :/ it's hard to follow (what alignments was rayn in these quotes?) but on the ending: On April 02 2014 12:13 gumshoe wrote:
Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum. On paper I have a 50 percent chance of bieng scum to him, as he does to me, compare the two of our attempts at reading each other and see whose actually trying to figure out the others alignment and whose considering the possibility that Steveling might be the actual scummer. In both cases, that person is me, I am town, Rayn is 90 percent scum and steveling is 10 percent scum. The end. How can you say this is the most damning bit of all yet you literally just did the same thing and went 90% scum on rayn when Steveling has still "yet to open his mouth"? Show nested quote +Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly?
Rayn watcha think? I used this to bait Rayn, but the fact that this exists means I thought out what his early lack of commitment might mean. Show nested quote +You and Rayn are firing off in every direction, trusting in your scum hunting skills to avail you I suppose, I on the other hand am pretty much zerod in on you because you are 50 percent scum XD so yeah, I can see why you might say that. Show nested quote +Because there's a 50 percent chance your scum therefore I owe you no favours, and I didn't catch anything worth bringing up at that moment. Rayn pressed me into fighting him when I had nothing concrete to call him scum, I tried baiting him and my results were inconclusive so I back off until he pressed me into fighting with him and revealed his true self, also I clearly say repeatedly hes 50 50, therefore worthy of suspicion, but not 100 percent how does any of that reflect the mindset of someone completely set on scum Rayn from the start? . Compare that to this. Show nested quote +So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"?
Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm.
Show nested quote +Here i present you our first......
Confirmed scumscumscumscumscum!!!!
ezpz
~rayn Like, read the fucking thread before you post Balla. I think another key thing is Rayn doesnt once include sheer probability as a factor in his suspicion of me (like I do constantly, similar to a drowning man clinging to a raft) he presents his scum reads as if their derived from sheer skill and analysis, because probability doesnt factor into Rayn's convictions, he knows who town is and his reads will just continue to build up solely because he wills them to. On April 02 2014 12:36 gumshoe wrote:
Like, read the fucking thread before you post Balla.
I think another key thing is Rayn doesnt once include sheer probability as a factor in his suspicion of me (like I do constantly, similar to a drowning man clinging to a raft) he presents his scum reads as if their derived from sheer skill and analysis, because probability doesnt factor into Rayn's convictions, he knows who town is and his reads will just continue to build up solely because he wills them to. What are you on about? None of that has anything to do with the contradiction you are displaying. You are calling rayn scum for being confident about his scum read on you even though Steveling has yet to contribute. Yet you are going HAM on rayn, even though steveling has still yet to contribute. It has nothing to do with you attempting to bait rayn. What I want to know is, how can you call rayn scummy for that and say it's the "most damning bit of all" even though you are doing the exact same thing. I backed off of Rayn after the fake case cause his response was fine, but Rayn came back for me and I explained why I lied. He then started hammering me as if he knew I was scum, whereas I was never certain of his alignment, only reasonably suspicious. He has always been far more suspect of me than I of him, I was just trying to read the guy whose in my group. Instead of talking shit Balla, show me proof that I was certain of Rayn's guilt before he was certain of mine and that I was more vocal about it. The order of operations doesn't matter. Steveling has still done nothing, yet you are certain Rayn is mafia, and you call rayn scummy for being certain of you being mafia even though Steveling has done nothing. On April 02 2014 12:13 gumshoe wrote:
Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum. On paper I have a 50 percent chance of bieng scum to him, as he does to me, compare the two of our attempts at reading each other and see whose actually trying to figure out the others alignment and whose considering the possibility that Steveling might be the actual scummer. In both cases, that person is me, I am town, Rayn is 90 percent scum and steveling is 10 percent scum. The end. Show nested quote +On April 03 2014 12:19 Tehpoofter wrote:
So I'm really glad that I just read through 20 pages of gum/rayn fighting. Going into it I had a town read on rayn scum on gum and null on steve. Show nested quote +On April 03 2014 00:59 gumshoe wrote:
Rayn, we agree steve is town, can we agree to vote him mayor? To which ryankoshi answers, Show nested quote +On April 03 2014 01:01 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 03 2014 00:59 gumshoe wrote:
Rayn, we agree steve is town, can we agree to vote him mayor? I don't see the point. -Koshi- Ofc, you don't scum, ). Anyway, they also have a town read on me. And finally here is what pieced it all together for me Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 19:14 Palmar wrote:On April 02 2014 19:11 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 19:05 Palmar wrote:On April 02 2014 19:04 Steveling wrote:
Can't argue with that.
Anyway, what about you rayn, you made a bold statement accusing gum, you still think the same?
And what do you think about me? I tentatively think rayn is town. He's a bit too angry for my liking but his point on gumshoe looked really town to me. I thought you might be scum then I realized you're in group with gumshoe who I also think is scum, so now I'm just confused. Steve his filterdive of gumshoe touches a lot of points I didn't like about gumshoe. Like the strange defense of gum to geript. If we take into account Steve didn't yet filter my hydra makes me feel good about him. I don't really know what to make out of the fact Steve is not taking an harder stance on gumshoe scum but I think he is just waiting a return from gumshoe to make a "final" verdict. Anyway. My group is going to get figured out Quite certain of it. Does it not bother you at all that Steve's approach seems to be "Keep all my options open"? Palmar aks ryankoshi about my opinion on both ryankoshi and gumshoe. Yes, as a matter of fact they do mind, not as town but as scum. They do care that I have not yet sided completely with them. They do mind that there is a slight chance of me turning against them and siding with gum and they want none of this. Everyone and their mama had me cleared as town, like most of the active players. Those who didn't read me as town read me as neutral and ryankoshi were crapping their pants because I wasn't that aggressive against gum. So, they had to go back to gum's and mine filters to try and find the tinniest, silliest, most illogical thread of garbage excuse to try and do a 180 on gum and turn on me. And they did exactly that, the oath excuse. (facepalm)
In the six posts that you call, in your words, "Everyone and their mama had me cleared as town, like most of the active players. Those who didn't read me as town read me as neutral", many arguments are either wrong or against you:
Two are from gumshoe, who considers you town but at the same time has been tunneling rayn. He actually mentioned here (in the Balla quote):
gumshoe:
Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum. On paper I have a 50 percent chance of bieng scum to him, as he does to me, compare the two of our attempts at reading each other and see whose actually trying to figure out the others alignment and whose considering the possibility that Steveling might be the actual scummer. In both cases, that person is me, I am town, Rayn is 90 percent scum and steveling is 10 percent scum. The end.
This isn't someone calling you town, this is someone tunneling rayn and saying that rayn is scum because from the two of you, you're the scummier one, yet he's still going after gum. Gum himself seems to have tripped over his argument - wouldn't it be a lot easier to implicate you than him, and thus more "convenient" to fight? You're labeled as green by association, because if rayn is scum as gum believes, you can't physically be scum. But again, gum's argument is flawed and not good evidence for your own.
Balla actually points this out. He's accusing you of doing nothing and gumshoe being too myopic to realize that. Which is correct, or was at that point in time at least. You're scummier than rayn, which means you're either null and gum is scum in his eyes, or the other way around.
The other gumshoe post of note is the one where he praises your game for being "riddled with uncertainty", which I previously said was relatively logical (i.e. he's not tunneling and you're approaching gum open-mindedly), although then I changed that to scummy because you didn't have a good stance and it was even evidenced in your read of rayn as town and gum as slightly town.
mderg finds you neutral - your dive of gumshoe might be towny according to him, but that would indicate the rest of your play is a little lacking, no?
I had a slight red read on you. I still do, and between schoolwork and essays I'll see how your more recent activity changes that. I thought it was implied in "one sketchy motherfucker", but alas.
tehpoofter finds you neutral. I'm going to have to re-examine some of his words, I believe that conversation we had was unfinished and unresolved.
So in total, we have one mostly green read (gum), two neutrals (poofter and mderg, and balla), and one red read (sentinel).
Rayn's own town read, like gum's was association due to tunneling at that point.
I'm a bit late with this but I haven't had an opportunity (as in, time) to examine Steve and get my thoughts on about how he went from a green read on rayn to a red read. I think it's completely contrived and really makes me doubt a lot of the other stuff he's been building onto that case.
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Holy fuck this thread is going fast - I haven't read any of 84-85 yet.
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On April 04 2014 05:45 prplhz wrote:voting for rayn or koshi?
Both.
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On April 04 2014 05:53 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2014 05:51 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 04 2014 05:45 prplhz wrote:On April 04 2014 05:41 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
##Vote: raynpelikonoshi voting for rayn or koshi? Both. why you voting for rayn? why you voting for koshi?
Koshi's taking the order from LSB with his own input added in, so if we decide as a group* that some other order is better, I can trust Koshi to judge and act accordingly. Rayn I can trust because I've had good vibes about his play this game, and I feel like I have Cell 1 especially figured out the most.
*Of course this is prone to hijacking. A quarter of the game being scum can swing a vote if done right, so a third can be even more dangerous. Which is why I trust Koshi (and rayn, since they share an alignment and right now that alignment is looking like town to me), to add in their own input and not just be swept by the current.
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@Steve
Afk. Making up a few essays I missed due to a business conference last week.
That whole post I made wasn't saying you're scum because of semantics/tunnel. This is what I was saying:
- Your argument on rayn is flawed, X Y and Z are the specific flaws
- Your judgment of rayn's actions is wrong because you're drawing from a point in the game where gum and rayn weren't thinking clearly
You're scum because:
- You spent a while tunneling rayn based on a flawed argument which I perceive as contrived
- Up until your prplhz argument was finally pushed out, you spent the time between your first red case on rayn and your case on prplhz tunneling rayn and not looking for other scum or any other discussion. It's not that you tunneled, it's that you tunneled badly, and unlike gum it's a lot harder to find the markings of bad town play.
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I'm fine w/ 3 and I don't mind 1 being early as well because like LSB said it's a good jumping-off point for moving the discussion later on
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5138
753
427
EPT
