EPTI'm guessing this game won't be balanced as a result of spending the entire hosting budget on costumes. So fearsome.
![[image loading]](http://unisycdotorg.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/cybermen-tenth_planet-01.png)
Doctor Who Mafia 2
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kitaman27
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I'm guessing this game won't be balanced as a result of spending the entire hosting budget on costumes. So fearsome. | ||
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kitaman27
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Surely we can fill a mini? | ||
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kitaman27
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On March 14 2014 05:36 Xatalos wrote: Soon we'll have people reporting their teammates for feeding / game throwing  VE throws games by feeding all the time. ![[image loading]](http://www.rachaelray.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/braised-pork-chops_5-1.jpg) | ||
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kitaman27
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On March 19 2014 20:12 marvellosity wrote: I'm a pussy, I like my alignments regular-style. I almost can't think of anything worse than owning mafia on day 1 and then getting changed to mafia D: Don't worry. Nobody wants to recruit you for their team anyways. | ||
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kitaman27
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![[image loading]](http://replygif.net/i/363.gif) ![[image loading]](http://i39.tinypic.com/1zbds1u.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i43.tinypic.com/15dnzux.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/38/e9/85/38e98508ebcdd5b46680ed4a1e5fde69.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/JIrl81r.gif) | ||
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kitaman27
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kitaman27
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![[image loading]](http://safetybootsandcrochet.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/toad.jpg) | ||
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kitaman27
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kitaman27
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##Vote: raynpelikoneet | ||
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kitaman27
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On March 30 2014 06:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: Last time you begun your game exactly like this you were mafia. So does that make it likely that I'm mafia this game or are you reminiscing about the past? | ||
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kitaman27
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kitaman27
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On March 30 2014 06:27 Alakaslam wrote: Rayn likely town but you guys make me think this gaem b ez What makes you say that? | ||
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kitaman27
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On March 30 2014 06:18 Hopeless1der wrote: this is a lynch cycle...i can at least understand the slam lynch. This, not so much. On March 30 2014 06:25 Hopeless1der wrote: because the alternative means i need to be a dick to kita and i dont wanna do that right now. On March 30 2014 06:26 Hopeless1der wrote: i do. Why did you vote rayn? On March 30 2014 06:31 Hopeless1der wrote: do i need to go through the motions of "totes serious voting" to get a response? rayn do you think this is a reasonable response from a town hopeless based on my vote a few posts into the game? | ||
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kitaman27
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##Unovte ##Vote thrawn2112 | ||
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kitaman27
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On March 30 2014 07:11 Alakaslam wrote: No that is exactly what you would do You have to There's no other way out of a one-on-one situation like this, and the meadow that you were using was my mood. But you couldn't read my mood until it became a skewer like this, which is too convenient. on top of this right now I'm being very serious, which is my Skymeadow. So, if you were town you'd probably be like "I'm down for this, yeah slam is scum" On March 30 2014 06:56 Alakaslam wrote: After this, anyone who votes outside of me or Rayn is stubborn, unaware of our meta, or scum. On March 30 2014 07:43 Alakaslam wrote: I'm getting thoroughly confused too ##unvotes Slam, why did you suddenly back off once I moved my vote? I have no idea what you were saying about rayn to begin with, but what made you change your mind? | ||
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kitaman27
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On March 30 2014 10:02 Amiko wrote: hey kita why is thrawn voting for rayn? Because I told him to and he obeyed. You'd agree that cybermen are less likely to have a spine, no? Also, you should vote for thrawn. | ||
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kitaman27
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On March 30 2014 10:19 thrawn2112 wrote: kita why di you vote for rayn? kita why did you tell me to vote for rayn? kita why did i vote for rayn kita why rayn why? I start most games out with a random vote. Why is this your biggest concern when I clearly voted for rayn at the point where he hardly even has a post? Are you unfamiliar with the concept or do you think that my vote had malicious intentions? | ||
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kitaman27
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On March 30 2014 11:30 thrawn2112 wrote: I'm curious as to why you would tell people to sheep your vote and then vote for them when they do? Sheeping a vote is when a player makes a case, you agree with their argument without contributing anything, and you vote for the same player. This wasn't a sheep vote since I simply told you to vote and you complied. I'm not going to take your vote an hour into the game very seriously anyways, it's more the fact that you chose to take the opportunity to work with me and focus on my vote, rather than pushing anything else so far. On March 30 2014 12:22 Tehpoofter wrote: @kita Is this a meta you expect Thrawn should know? Probably not. He clearly isn't aware, so why ask twice whether he should be expected? Doesn't seem very relevant to me. | ||
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kitaman27
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On March 30 2014 12:37 Tehpoofter wrote: I was curious cause you transitioned that early game reaction into a read on him maybe its relevant maybe it isn't. How do you feel that he threw his vote on Slam without even mentioning it in this thread? I don't find it to be a real issue? Is that something you're trying to spin as scummy by getting me to say as much or what? | ||
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kitaman27
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On March 30 2014 12:42 Tehpoofter wrote: You brought up the point that its something you do every game why bring it up if it didn't matter? I have a hard time imagining that something that small would be a scummy or townie thing either way leaning super neutral to me I was just wondering if it was a meta thing I don't know. I'm actually questioning your statement about the slam vote. | ||
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kitaman27
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On March 30 2014 12:38 thrawn2112 wrote: kita do you really think i'm mafia? really? put on your serious face ![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8b/Face_of_Boe.jpg) Facial expressions were never really my strong suit. I'm comfortable sticking with a buddy heuristic until something better comes up. | ||
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kitaman27
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On March 30 2014 12:45 kushm4sta wrote: What kita did is referred to as RVS. Basically randomly voting someone for a bullshit reason at the beginning of the game to spur discussion. It is a tactic of dubious merits in my opinion, but it is very popular on other sites, especially mafiascum. I am also concerned about thawn's response to kita. Thrawn have you never experienced RVS before? It seems fake that you would press kita for his reasoning for a vote that is obviously based on nothing. What do you think about hopeless's response kush? | ||
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kitaman27
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I can tolerate the craziness, but lying if you're not crosses the line. | ||
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kitaman27
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On March 30 2014 13:07 Alakaslam wrote: Ya I'm planar dragon of interplanetary mega bamcis NK POWAH, I will NK the whole scumteam in one fell swoop Make sure u lynch me or NK watch this Seriously, are you a survivor? | ||
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kitaman27
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kitaman27
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On March 30 2014 15:06 raynpelikoneet wrote: In case it's unclear. It's like normally people give you a puzzle to solve and slowly give you pieces to the puzzle along the way. Then they assume townies complete the puzzle and mafia tries to force the pieces in wrong order. kitaman gives you a puzzle, then he gives you pieces to 10 different puzzles and i don't even know if he wants you to try to solve the original puzzle. lol you amuse me. But you have it backwards. I'm simply trying to gather the pieces for myself. The puzzle is mine to solve. As for your "web of disruption" post, it has a catchy name, but I'll respond once you come to an actual conclusion. thrawn is off my naughty list for the moment. People of interest: Tehpoofter seems to be asking questions that I don't find all that interesting. His initial vote of slam seems a bit forced. Amiko asking me or hope for the clarification doesn't seem scummy to me. We were probably just around. His lack of opinion and direction does appear scummy however. Hopeless with his "do i need to go through the motions of totes serious voting to get a response?" conveys a kind of "look at me doing someone" without actually coming to a conclusion other than that I'm useless slam...generally I try to ignore him and the last time I did so I believe he was mafia. Day one survivor claims are usually someone I would lynch, even if I thought they might be a survivor. My biggest worry is that he might be a trolly town who is willing to get lynched and doesn't care, but he wasn't willing to role claim when asked and shows signs of over frustration that doesn't appear genuine. I'll probably leave my vote on him, though we need to avoid the scenario where nobody is under pressure because the lynch is already decided. kush is someone who usually gets on my nerves early and hasn't done so yet, which is a concern. I seem to remember him playing mafia and acting completely reasonable, but I'll have to look back to familiarize myself with some of his more recent games. In my opinion, thrawn and hope both overreacted to the random vote, yet kush doesn't draw the same conclusion by only expressing suspicion of thrawn. If slam is a survivor, then kush being the first one to defend him may make sense as mafia if he knows his alignment. | ||
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kitaman27
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kitaman27
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On March 30 2014 15:58 raynpelikoneet wrote: I kinda understand this but the problem is the pieces are most likely wrong in any case because you are not on the same page with other people. Do you see any reason why town!Amiko asks you or Hopeless to clarify my thought process instead of asking me (i was btw in thread aswell)? Not really, but if you're going to say that is alignment indicative then I think you're overreacting. | ||
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kitaman27
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On March 30 2014 15:38 raynpelikoneet wrote: ##unvote ##vote Toadesstern So basically you can't be town if you are not modkilled. Demanding a modkill in the thread is terrible practice. PM mods if you have a problem. | ||
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kitaman27
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kitaman27
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On March 30 2014 16:11 raynpelikoneet wrote: Probably town if Hopeless is mafia. I trust Foolishness the most atm. lol terrible reasoning. | ||
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kitaman27
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On March 30 2014 16:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: So i can't tell if he is town or mafia. Well I'm going to bed now. When I wake up, can you provide a follow up to the "web of disruption" post? | ||
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kitaman27
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On March 31 2014 01:03 Amiko wrote: @kitaman27 I don’t see your original vote on thrawn2112 as scummy, but can you explain why you initially withheld your reasons for voting for thrawn (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21085439)? That was in response to a question about the rayn vote, not thrawn. Saying a random vote is random doesn't accomplish much, unless you're ready to move on. Slam, could you post your role name, abilities, and win condition? If you don't do so, then you're working against town. rayn, have you finished your research yet? | ||
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kitaman27
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On March 30 2014 14:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: Here is how townies do the "make other people think and see if you can catch lazy people because they are more likely to be mafia and draw retarded conclusions" So lets get this straight, you decided to spend your time drawing a couple fancy pictures, suggesting that I'm creating a "web of disruption", write a huge post without a conclusion, promise to come to follow up three times and fail to do so, and now use the "I don't care excuse"? Like what's the point of that post to begin with? | ||
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kitaman27
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On March 31 2014 01:31 Amiko wrote: there’s over a day left, slam is already getting pressured, and I’d rather lynch scum than 3rd party survivor. On March 31 2014 03:02 Tehpoofter wrote: Survivor might not be town but its not mafia finding mafia > lynching the survivor. So you guys are confident that slam is not mafia because he says he is not? | ||
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kitaman27
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kitaman27
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On March 31 2014 03:14 raynpelikoneet wrote: kush's argument is so retarded i am not sure if i want to even try any more jsut because i have to deal that sort of logic. What is even more awful is that someone agrees with him.. I actually did go back and found any references to survivor games and kush held a similar stance as town...don't lynch, go after those who do, etc. | ||
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kitaman27
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kitaman27
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On March 31 2014 03:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: For someone who is supposed to be good at this game you say a lot of stupid stuff kita. Hey, I'm not the guy pushing a mass claim in a recruiter setup. On a side note, it's quite possible that mafia numbers are going to be nerfed on day one if there is a alignment changing mechanic. We could very well be dealing with 1-2 at the start. My policy on slam is that if he refuses to role claim, he doesn't care about winning with town and should be lynched. The "I hate my role, I'm just going to quit" attitude is worthless. Vivax, you know you have a reputation for not posting as mafia, so what gives? Do you have a mafia read yet hope? | ||
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kitaman27
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On March 31 2014 04:41 Alakaslam wrote: I am disgruntled. I feel I have been targeted by scum since before I did anything, so I am pissed and playing for vengeance, and to obey the rules playing to my wincon even when it is a lost cause. Hosts have confirmed that you are allowed to reveal your role name, role, and win condition. Please do so in your next post. I've asked 4-5 times now. I don't like to beg. | ||
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kitaman27
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Even if I disagree with some of thing things he is saying, he is taking more stances and following through with them. hope on the other hand is kinda just there responding when he is called upon. | ||
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kitaman27
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I don't suppose anyone has a time machine that can bring us to day two? | ||
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kitaman27
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So here is what I was doing at the start of this game. I was actually trying to accomplish something with my play. I was reproducing my behavior to a tee from the recent shadow mini mafia game. + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2014 09:31 kitaman27 wrote: ##Vote Sandroba On January 21 2014 11:28 kitaman27 wrote: I'm not voting him as a joke. I think he is a great vote. We should lynch him today. On January 21 2014 10:46 kitaman27 wrote: Wanna vote sandroba with me? He may or may not be scummy. On January 21 2014 10:34 kitaman27 wrote: Do you think I'm trying to paint sandroba in a bad light using my "scummy thought process" like you mentioned or do you think that it was a random vote with little thought? I random voted moments into the game, I refused to provide an explanation when asked, I requested that someone vote with me without details, I asked a similar question when prompted, and I moved off the random vote shortly after. The goal here was to prompt someone to question my behavior and see if they attempt to make the connection or if they simply pass off my play as scummy. rayn mentioned that he observed shadow and toad and austin played in it, so even if they don't remember the random vote, it would likely be the first place to look as it was my most recent town game. It's important to note that I'm not trying to say that me emulating my shadow mafia play makes me town. I'm saying that the connection is there for anyone interested in finding it. On March 30 2014 14:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: Picture 2: Here is how kitaman does it. He makes an unclear argument and when people question him about it he does not answer but instead makes another unclear argument about the question. Repeat until noone can remember what was the original point and what the fuck we are even arguing about. Then he might posts some conclusions, a day or so later I've seen a couple of mafia players do this and it works really well because most of the players tire out and just stop arguing because it's so annoying and in the end you can't make anything out of it anyways because it takes about 5 hours to get an answer to a simple question. I was pretty happy that rayn had suggested that was was going to do some research and pushed him in the right direction several times as you can see below. + Show Spoiler + On March 30 2014 15:54 kitaman27 wrote: As for your "web of disruption" post, it has a catchy name, but I'll respond once you come to an actual conclusion. On March 30 2014 16:23 kitaman27 wrote: Well I'm going to bed now. When I wake up, can you provide a follow up to the "web of disruption" post? On March 31 2014 01:06 kitaman27 wrote: rayn, have you finished your research yet? On multiple occasions, rayn confirms that he will do the work to back up his initial suspicions. + Show Spoiler + On March 30 2014 14:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: Now i gotta figure out if kita does this only as mafia or does he do this as town too (or maybe only as town?) On March 30 2014 16:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yes. I'll watch the Formula 1 race that starts in ~30min and i'll do my research after that. On March 31 2014 01:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: not gonna do it. 90% i will find nothing useful and i don't care about this game enough to test if the 10% gives me something. Yet when push comes to shove, he decides not to put the effort in. He spends the time into coming up with his thesis that I'm creating a "web of disruption", yet has no interest in backing it up. If he is going to call me scummy, when does he have no interest in catching me? On March 30 2014 17:44 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yeah i don't really carew about this game because i don't fee llike agruing with stupidity. I might post something at some point, probably to tell who is scum, but don't expect me to explain anything. I don't really feel like this game is gonna be fun so idontjustcare. On March 31 2014 01:16 raynpelikoneet wrote: The point was at that time i cared. After Toad's post i didn't. On March 31 2014 16:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: so kita and tehpoofer are most likely scum. maybe gumshoe. Now there are three possible explanations: 1) He dropped the ball as town, attacking me without putting in the effort 2) He did the research as mafia, didn't like what he found, and dropped the case to avoid calling me town 3) He is a lazy scum player who didn't want to go after me at a point where several players are calling me town If rayn thought that I was looking decently townie otherwise, then maybe I'd consider number one. The biggest issue that I have right now is that as far as I can tell, I am rayn's number one scum suspect. He is pushing slam for being anti-town and shows that he may have reconsidered his read on tehpoofer, yet not a word about myself. On March 30 2014 14:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: Picture 1: Here is how townies do the "make other people think and see if you can catch lazy people because they are more likely to be mafia and draw retarded conclusions" thingy (at least how i do it). On March 30 2014 15:06 raynpelikoneet wrote: In case it's unclear. It's like normally people give you a puzzle to solve and slowly give you pieces to the puzzle along the way. Then they assume townies complete the puzzle and mafia tries to force the pieces in wrong order. rayn describes his play best. I don't think you can argue that he isn't being lazy here. rayn was given the pieces of the puzzle to solve and he chose not to because he "doesn't care". On March 30 2014 15:45 raynpelikoneet wrote: Not because i necessarily trust your read but because i trust Foolishness' read. *sigh* On March 30 2014 15:52 raynpelikoneet wrote: So if you are town we have a scumread on Hopeless from confirmed town good player Foolishness. On March 30 2014 16:11 raynpelikoneet wrote: I trust Foolishness the most atm. ##unvote ##vote Hopeless1der This line of thought is pretty terrible. He explains his willingness to vote for hopelessness over a minor observation about hope a few hours into the game. Not only does he not consider that foolishness could be wrong, he is using the justification for the vote because he respects foolishness as a player, not because he thinks its a valid argument. He even goes as far as dropping his suspicion of myself due to my interaction with hope. rayn states that he has done the most scum hunting in the game hands down, he suggests that I am his number one scum read, and he hasn't showed any attempt to figure out my alignment. As he mentioned earlier, he is trying to force the pieces in the wrong order. The one thing holding me up is 1) His mass claim policy is consistent with his previous behavior as town 2) Slam is one of the most anti-town players in recent memory Right now I'd probably be leaning towards a rayn lynch and hopefully having a vig take care of slam so he is removed as a discussion topic. I would like to look at a few more individuals before I finalize my vote. | ||
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kitaman27
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kitaman27
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kitaman27
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On March 31 2014 23:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: For kitaman's caliber of player that case is absolutely terrible. He focuses on totally unimportant things and refuses to even consider my explanations from town perspective. He hasn't focused on anything but those unimportant things in this game. So what is your explanation from a town perspective? The single largest post you've made this game suggests that I was creating a web of disruption without making a statement in regards to my alignment. You stated twice that you would put in the work to come to a conclusion about your observation. I asked three times for you to do the research. You explained that you weren't going to because you don't care. You post that I'm you're number one scum read, yet you still don't make any attempt to go after me. I then create a case against you and suddenly you want to change your vote? You yourself said that when a town player creates a line of reasoning they expect a player to follow, a town player will try to figure something out and a mafia player will be lazy and create conclusions that are convenient to them, without a logical explanation. | ||
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kitaman27
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kitaman27
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On March 31 2014 23:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: He has voted for thrawn -> apparently that dodn't go anywhere. Correct, my read on thrawn shifted to town and I saw no reason to follow up. I states as much. On March 31 2014 23:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: He has considered Hopeless scum -> never gave any conclusions but apparently now Hopeless is not scum any more because he wants to lynch the dude who agreed with him on Hopeless. Are you putting words in my mouth now? For someone who is promising that I a scum, you seem to be making up reasons. I haven't mentioned hopeless at all recently. He is actually one of the players I'm looking at right now. On March 31 2014 23:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: He wanted Slam to claim and never commented on anything people said on Slam. Have you read my posts? I called him one of the most anti-tonw players in recent memory and requested a vig shot on slam. | ||
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kitaman27
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On March 31 2014 23:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am not elaborating further. kitaman is mafia. I have explained why i did what i did he does not refer to my reasoning but the actions instead. I have already explained them. I promise you all he is mafia. Just like you promised to do your research last night? LOL | ||
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On March 31 2014 23:45 raynpelikoneet wrote: Anyone who has any brain left in this game this part by kitaman's post should be considered a scumclaim. Read it please. "I wouldn't lynch this guy but he thinks i am mafia" Read it again. I'm rayn's one and only scum suspect currently yet he made no attempt to go after me. It isn't about you being suspicious of ME, it's about you ignoring your only read. You say that you have been doing the most scum hunting hands down, but point to a single spot in your filter where you attempt to figure out my alignment. Seven pages of filter talking about slam doesn't mean you have done anything. | ||
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kitaman27
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On March 31 2014 23:47 Hopeless1der wrote: kita, rayn wants to 1v1 you. do you accept? Yep, assuming I don't come to the conclusion that you're not pushing a town vs town. rayn is guaranteeing and promising that I am mafia after a 10 sec response to my post. I am presenting a case why he is likely mafia after objectively attempting to lead him down a path to show he is town, reading through his past games for things like mass claim policy and mentioning my reservations showing that I am not 100%, and reading through other players filters to make sure he is the best lynch before deciding. Who do you guys trust more? | ||
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kitaman27
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On March 31 2014 23:56 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay lynch me. ##unvote vote raynpelikoneet then you can lynch scum. also you will facepalm when you see my role. If you're going to suggest that you have an incredibly powerful town role to avoid the lynch, then you better attempt to show what you can do for town. If you get lynched, you're dead. If you survive, mafia knows you have a strong blue role. So will you be role claiming? | ||
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kitaman27
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On March 31 2014 23:49 JarJarDrinks wrote: FWIW I don't like kita either. I don't understand what he's saying about how he was trying to reproduce his meta from a previous game. It really makes very little sense as town. What doesn't make sense to you? Is there anything that I can explain differently? Essentially, I went into the game attempting to behave exactly the same as my most recent town game. I'm not saying this makes me town, I'm saying that the connection is there for anyone trying to look. The top quote is shadow mini and the bottom quote is this game. + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2014 09:31 kitaman27 wrote: ##Vote Sandroba On March 30 2014 06:16 kitaman27 wrote: Hello! ##Vote: raynpelikoneet + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2014 10:46 kitaman27 wrote: Wanna vote sandroba with me? He may or may not be scummy. On March 30 2014 06:36 kitaman27 wrote: Not providing an explanation for my vote, though someone should totally join me. + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2014 10:34 kitaman27 wrote: Do you think I'm trying to paint sandroba in a bad light using my "scummy thought process"? On March 30 2014 11:00 kitaman27 wrote: do you think that my vote had malicious intentions? + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2014 23:50 kitaman27 wrote: Also, gotta make the rounds. ##Unvote ##Foolishness On March 30 2014 07:40 kitaman27 wrote: ##Unovte ##Vote thrawn2112 rayn finds my random vote behavior weird, but needs to see what I do as each alignment and mentions that he would look into it. I ask him multiple times to look into it. As town, I would suspect that he would look at my most recent game, notice my random vote behavior and conclude that it either matches my town meta or that I'm mafia trying to force my town meta or to look an not find a connection. As mafia, I would expect him to not bother looking and call me mafia anyways. | ||
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On April 01 2014 00:03 Amiko wrote: I'd like to ask rayn questions and go back and forth but I am out for a few hours, so in summary I currently think rayn justified his vote on hopeless1ider based on a non-existent case by kitaman27. (he also justified it based on foolishness' read but I can't use that for anything) I actually remember wondering to myself what he was referring to at the time, but didn't make much of it. Town points for Amiko for showing that he is actually trying to figure things out (and not just because it's about rayn, rather than me). | ||
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kitaman27
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On April 01 2014 00:12 JarJarDrinks wrote: OK that post doesn't really answer me. What I'm looking for is what were you hoping to accomplish by reproducing you behavior? How was it supposed to be a trap? It was more a town trap. I would have proof that a player is looking at my past games in order to draw a conclusion, showing that they were attempting to figure things out, especially since several players here were familiar with the game. I didn't anticipate that rayn would actually pick up on the behavior and promise to look back without actually doing so, but once he did I came to the conclusions that his behavior was more likely mafia for the reasons I explained. On April 01 2014 00:08 JarJarDrinks wrote: I think the only part of that that is true is that you purposefully emulated ur meta from a previous game. And I think it's cause ur scum and you did it to appear town. Thats why you were hinting for people to go read ur meta. Then you got pissed off that people were calling you scum when you made all that effort to look like you did in that game. So you retconned your "trap". I suppose I don't have anything to say about that one. It's not what I was doing, but like I mentioned a few posts earlier, if rayn came to that conclusion it would have shown that they were filter diving still and likely town. | ||
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kitaman27
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On April 01 2014 00:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: This is going to be my last post. Maybe i'll rub some salt into your wounds and come back and claim 5min before the deadline, just to tell how dumb you are.  Yep, that's a perfect way to show you are town, refuse to post. | ||
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On April 01 2014 00:19 Djodref wrote: So, do you want to lynch rayn or not ? You didn't vote him yet, who are you looking at at the moment then ? Currently yes. Looking at hope, vivax, and yourself mainly at the moment. Also, looking at rayn's behavior in games that he is lynched. I remember him going off on marv for a 1:1 trade in vengeful mafia and I know he afk'd as mafia in a game I subbed into a while back, but I want to take a better look. | ||
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On April 01 2014 00:24 JarJarDrinks wrote: I just can't imagine this @ all coming from a town mindset. The only reason I can imagine someone specifically going out of their way to make their posts reproduce a previous town game is if they're scum. The "town trap" reasoning is pretty flimsy. Well I myself said that reproducing my town play is not something that I couldn't do as mafia. You just have to decide what my intentions are. | ||
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On March 31 2014 12:26 austinmcc wrote: kita did you grow up on the peninsula or are you just finding appropriate pictures? The Boeshane is a place I find dear, but I will not be revealing my origins at this time. On March 31 2014 12:26 austinmcc wrote: Also, you cannot have the Cerulean Rectangular Prism, but you mentioned tehpoofter's questions earlier and I'd be interested in your current thoughts about his filter. But I'm so hungry I felt tehpoofter's intial vote forced and questions empty, but he has picked a topic of interest and pushed it so I haven't considered him much for a day one lynch. Probably in my blind spot at the moment as I'm not very familiar with him. | ||
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On April 01 2014 01:06 austinmcc wrote: kita, examine your blind spot please. Haven't spent a lot of time on him and he won't be a priority for the remainder of the day due to other individuals I can use my time better on. Avoiding a town vs town is my biggest worry at the moment because those put you back way too much early on. At work currently so time is limited but I still hope to be able to comment on others more in depth other than rayn. | ||
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The biggest thing about rayn right now is how sure he is. I know that even with the case I have made, I'm not completely confident. He is sharing his reads with certainty with no evidence that he has looked at my past mafia games or questioned me at any point prior to me presenting the case. The biggest thing to address for him regarding my alignment is the shadow connection that I tried to make. Yet rather than suggesting that I tried to duplicate the town meta so that he would develop a town read on me, he ignores it completely. Onto hopeless: + Show Spoiler + On March 31 2014 21:50 Hopeless1der wrote: nothing personal slam ##Vote: Alakaslam On March 30 2014 06:25 Hopeless1der wrote: because the alternative means i need to be a dick to kita and i dont wanna do that right now. On March 30 2014 06:31 Hopeless1der wrote: whered you go kita? do i need to go through the motions of "totes serious voting" to get a response? I didn't really think too much of the post that Toad/Foolishness pointed out. Hopeless shows signs of guilt with his slam vote. As a town player, I'd expect annoyance from slam's play, yet this comes off as slightly apologetic. His defense of rayn at the start I found scummy and these posts sound as if he is writing them as mafia to sound town, but I admit that is a weak line of reasoning here. On March 31 2014 23:47 Hopeless1der wrote: kita, rayn wants to 1v1 you. do you accept? On April 01 2014 00:02 Hopeless1der wrote: p.s. rayn revoted kita On March 31 2014 23:56 Hopeless1der wrote: In my currently preferred scenario, we lynch rayn. If he flips town, hope a vig can get you or slam and probably end up lynching the other one. These posts seem like the ideal mafia scenario if rayn is indeed town, which would be opportunistic from his perspective. He makes the assumption that if rayn flips town, I must be mafia. This is scummy because up until this point, he hasn't hinted at having a mafia read on me or having a problem with my case. In fact, he defends me explaining how I could coast along with the slam lynch. So there is a gap in logic here if he would be so open to my death. At first, I really thought that rayn and hope could be scum buddies. rayn exploded with anger about Toad's post. He then showed a defeated attitude, as if he had no choice but to vote hope for an incredibly, incredibly weak reason. As buddies, he would have to anticipate a huge wagon on hope at that point and I wasn't feel the sentiment at that time. Since then it seems less likely that they are both mafia, with a shifting read on hope to town from rayn and an attack on rayn from hope after my case. I would say that hope is scummy to me, but the discussion about the town vs town is all speculative, pre-flip analysis, which I'd want to avoid. The biggest point is how open he would be to see me die to enforce the 1v1 trade, without making any argument as to why we must be of opposite alignments. There wasn't enough here to make me move off of rayn here. I'd like to do vivax/djo next and see if austin's points have any merits. austin himself I've ignored for the most part and I'll likely continue to do so until a red flag pops up. | ||
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On April 01 2014 01:56 austinmcc wrote: If a guy has a scumread, then he's unsure of it, how does he follow up if he's town, real read, real worry that it's wrong, and how does he follow it up if he's scum, read was fake, either he finds it efficient to possibly change it or ... whatever. There's no...followup. A change of read is fine, but it should cause something to happen that I'm not seeing. Can't you make the same case against rayn? He finds my web suspicious, isn't sure about my alignment and then calls me stupid a bunch of times, rather than committing to a read. You saw marv do the same thing in shadow. At no point does he follow up with his read on my or attempt to ask me any direct questions until he goes from a 1-liner that I'm scummy to being 100% confident. | ||
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On April 01 2014 02:01 austinmcc wrote: rayn is not...lacking for scumreads. Poofter is, if he isn't sure on rayn. Yes he is. Has has his omgus vote on myself, the third party claim, and the inactive guy. On April 01 2014 00:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: Weak scum: gumshoe - hasn't said anything Kill with fire: kitaman27 Alakaslam | ||
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On April 01 2014 02:42 JarJarDrinks wrote: He says if he was scum, he'd go after me. That to me, means that he knows I'm not scum. That doesn't make sense. I actually do think you're kinda townie for taking a contrarian position. I suspect that if rayn is mafia then his buddies would be unlikely to oppose me. If rayn is town, then his buddies would likely either support my case or call us both town, vote slam and go with the easy "I told you so" type of deal. From a mafia perspective, if we're both town, the reason to go after me is that I'm less likely to flip so you can stay on me the following cycle, but that seems less likely at the moment. | ||
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On March 29 2014 00:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: 11. kitaman27 - hard read tricky Another thing to note. In the catastrophe thread, rayn chose to briefly describe the meta of each player. For me, he chose "hard read tricky". In his web post, he also describes me as hard to read. For someone that admits to having difficulty reading me historically, he is suddenly crystal clear in regards to my alignment. | ||
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On April 01 2014 02:43 Vivax wrote: I am working things off one by one. Nowhere did I say my suspicion of kita went "poof", so don't assume so just cause I am currently not asking him questions. If you could simply answer instead of spamming desperation cryouts cause of a question then it would be appreciated thanks. So to be clear, what do you think? | ||
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On April 01 2014 03:38 Vivax wrote: I like how you explain things around rayn here in your post in spoiler since I got the feeling that he's creating a lot of confusion and drama and I don't like that, it's just that I can't tell if he's doing it on purpose or cause he's just being like that and town but what I do see is that he throws around with scumreads without trying to let them be productive. He's accusatory not inquisitive and he reminds me of the kind of attitude I saw on him in that game where he hydraed with Mocsta as scum, in which he also behaved pretty negatively throughout the game. I'm not sure if I would lynch him D1 though, I would rather be happy with a Kaslam lynch, like I mentioned it's also possible he's traitor and it's already enough if we don't lynch town and get the doubt of the way. + Show Spoiler + On March 31 2014 23:12 kitaman27 wrote: On raynpelikoneet So here is what I was doing at the start of this game. I was actually trying to accomplish something with my play. I was reproducing my behavior to a tee from the recent shadow mini mafia game. + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2014 09:31 kitaman27 wrote: ##Vote Sandroba On January 21 2014 11:28 kitaman27 wrote: I'm not voting him as a joke. I think he is a great vote. We should lynch him today. On January 21 2014 10:46 kitaman27 wrote: Wanna vote sandroba with me? He may or may not be scummy. On January 21 2014 10:34 kitaman27 wrote: Do you think I'm trying to paint sandroba in a bad light using my "scummy thought process" like you mentioned or do you think that it was a random vote with little thought? I random voted moments into the game, I refused to provide an explanation when asked, I requested that someone vote with me without details, I asked a similar question when prompted, and I moved off the random vote shortly after. The goal here was to prompt someone to question my behavior and see if they attempt to make the connection or if they simply pass off my play as scummy. rayn mentioned that he observed shadow and toad and austin played in it, so even if they don't remember the random vote, it would likely be the first place to look as it was my most recent town game. It's important to note that I'm not trying to say that me emulating my shadow mafia play makes me town. I'm saying that the connection is there for anyone interested in finding it. I was pretty happy that rayn had suggested that was was going to do some research and pushed him in the right direction several times as you can see below. + Show Spoiler + On March 30 2014 15:54 kitaman27 wrote: As for your "web of disruption" post, it has a catchy name, but I'll respond once you come to an actual conclusion. On March 30 2014 16:23 kitaman27 wrote: Well I'm going to bed now. When I wake up, can you provide a follow up to the "web of disruption" post? On March 31 2014 01:06 kitaman27 wrote: rayn, have you finished your research yet? On multiple occasions, rayn confirms that he will do the work to back up his initial suspicions. + Show Spoiler + On March 30 2014 14:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: Now i gotta figure out if kita does this only as mafia or does he do this as town too (or maybe only as town?) On March 30 2014 16:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yes. I'll watch the Formula 1 race that starts in ~30min and i'll do my research after that. Yet when push comes to shove, he decides not to put the effort in. He spends the time into coming up with his thesis that I'm creating a "web of disruption", yet has no interest in backing it up. If he is going to call me scummy, when does he have no interest in catching me? Now there are three possible explanations: 1) He dropped the ball as town, attacking me without putting in the effort 2) He did the research as mafia, didn't like what he found, and dropped the case to avoid calling me town 3) He is a lazy scum player who didn't want to go after me at a point where several players are calling me town If rayn thought that I was looking decently townie otherwise, then maybe I'd consider number one. The biggest issue that I have right now is that as far as I can tell, I am rayn's number one scum suspect. He is pushing slam for being anti-town and shows that he may have reconsidered his read on tehpoofer, yet not a word about myself. rayn describes his play best. I don't think you can argue that he isn't being lazy here. rayn was given the pieces of the puzzle to solve and he chose not to because he "doesn't care". This line of thought is pretty terrible. He explains his willingness to vote for hopelessness over a minor observation about hope a few hours into the game. Not only does he not consider that foolishness could be wrong, he is using the justification for the vote because he respects foolishness as a player, not because he thinks its a valid argument. He even goes as far as dropping his suspicion of myself due to my interaction with hope. rayn states that he has done the most scum hunting in the game hands down, he suggests that I am his number one scum read, and he hasn't showed any attempt to figure out my alignment. As he mentioned earlier, he is trying to force the pieces in the wrong order. The one thing holding me up is 1) His mass claim policy is consistent with his previous behavior as town 2) Slam is one of the most anti-town players in recent memory Right now I'd probably be leaning towards a rayn lynch and hopefully having a vig take care of slam so he is removed as a discussion topic. I would like to look at a few more individuals before I finalize my vote. I was actually referring to your views on my own alignment. | ||
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It seems unlikely that mafia would have both a town recruiting role and a traitor role in the same game. I suppose a third party traitor that joins the mafia team is a possibility, but I've never seem something like that before. | ||
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On April 01 2014 03:46 Vivax wrote: it seemed like you reacted to the pressure by giving a summary of the situation which felt like a stretch I was hardly under any pressure at any point prior to presenting my rayn post. Would you mind pointing out what you are referring to? | ||
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On April 01 2014 03:54 Vivax wrote: Sure you were, thrawn, rayn and a few others I think kept asking you questions to wtf you were doing. Meh I think your time line is bit off since you're referring to events that were 30+ hours apart that would trigger my reaction long past when it was relavent, but I did find the posts that you could possibly referring to so I won't argue any further. Are you saying that slam is the best lynch today? Who would you consider after him? | ||
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If I had to guess it would be based on my speculation of mafia numbers maybe? Anything to add kush? | ||
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On April 01 2014 04:41 thrawn2112 wrote: gumshoe has not demonstrated anything except his willingness to be useless Do you think that this is the type of behavior you would expect from a mafia gumshoe? | ||
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On April 01 2014 04:44 austinmcc wrote: All I can say is that, while he has not been ACTIVE elsewhere, he has posted in World Championship mafia a couple times since being here. He's been on the site and reading that thread, but has not indicated any desire to participate in this one, nor has he actually participated. That, on average, is more likely a mafia thing. Taking a quick look at his only mafia game. He actually seems pretty wordy. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/441596-gsl-open-mini-mafia-iv?page=44#868 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/441596-gsl-open-mini-mafia-iv?page=56#1110 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/441596-gsl-open-mini-mafia-iv?page=75#1485 Are you confident enough that you'd want to lynch him now over someone who has posted, without waiting to see if he does shape up tonight? | ||
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A deal works both ways. We give you lynch immunity so that you survive until endgame. Mafia will not shoot you over town. You will therefore be guaranteed to win. You give us your role name and role and if we feel that you can use it to find mafia, you help us out. Mods have confirmed you can share your role. You would be allowed to post slammy stuff to your hearts content and nobody would have a problem. I'd even be willing to join in. Think of how much fun that would be! Sound good? | ||
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On April 01 2014 05:00 austinmcc wrote: Let's play a game! The game is called -- "The OP says everyone can get fake claims!" Okay, begin the game. LOOK WE ALL WIN BECAUSE EVERYONE CAN GET FAKE CLAIMS AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY IT WOULD EVER BE RELEVANT FOR SLAM TO CLAIM A POSSIBLY MADE UP ROLE ON D1 BECAUSE IT LEADS US NOWHERE AND IT IS NOT, NOR WILL IT EVER BE, SCUMHUNTING. You don't know whether slam is a 3P or not. If he claims, you don't know whether that's truthful or not. Congratulations, you now have one uncertainty stacked on another! This is...not useful? Suppose slam is a survivor, has a role that we could force him to use in a pro-town or a role that can be confirmed, you don't care what he says? We don't need to believe him. If he lies, then he lies. If he is truthful, then we get to pick how he uses his role in exchange for his survival, rather than having a neutral player choose to use their role to their personal benefit. In PTP, I was forced to roleclaim as survivor and town eventually lynched it for me because I was shooting townies left and right. Remember? To be honest, I'd even be interested in hearing a fake claim to give us a better idea of potential roles in the setup. | ||
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On April 01 2014 05:23 raynpelikoneet wrote: 5) Good job retards you killed your shrink. The Master loves to shrink his targets without actually killing them! :o | ||
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On April 01 2014 05:27 kitaman27 wrote: The Master loves to shrink his targets without actually killing them! :o "As its name suggested, the TCE killed by drastically compressing the bodies of its targets to the point where life functions ceased. The Master liked to leave the shrunken doll-like corpses of his victims as a calling-card for the Doctor to discover. " | ||
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On April 01 2014 06:23 Amiko wrote: As rayn has flipped blue I want to know if anyone feels differently about massclaiming as rayn proposed d1. I still feel it is a bad idea but since I know it was coming from someone in town I'd like to hear if anyone has re-evaluated it or feels differently. @kitaman27 I would especially like to hear from you, not just because of you and rayn in the whole 1v1 thing (though that is important) but also because you mentioned it as consistent with rayn's play when you were making your case. I wouldn't be in favor of a mass claim in a recruiter setup on night one. | ||
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On April 01 2014 06:24 kitaman27 wrote: I wouldn't be in favor of a mass claim in a recruiter setup on night one. Or day two. | ||
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Scum numbers need to be balanced. If you start with the max scum numbers for a 14 player setup and then add a changing alignment mechanic on top of it your would need to compensate somehow. Having a scum - > town conversation makes no sense since they would simply post the scum list, so a nerfed starting number makes the most sense. On April 01 2014 21:43 kushm4sta wrote: Why is the boldified relevant? Was trying to show my mindset as mafia, but it probably makes more sense to me than anyone else. Wasn't really necessary I suppose. On April 01 2014 21:43 kushm4sta wrote: Have you ever played with town rayn before? I'm sure you have. In that game, was he not super sure about his reads d1? Yes, though I don't recall him ever going after myself actually. The fact that he was willing to call me 100% confirmed mafia I found incredibly scummy because he essentially took that stance based on my post on him. I can't imagine myself ever acting like he did as town, but I guess he runs hotter. When I posted my case on him, I gave him several opportunities to justify his scum read on myself and essentially he gave a "I don't care"/"I'm too lazy" response even though he suggested that I was mafia several times. That didn't sit well with me so I went after him and he blew up. On April 01 2014 21:43 kushm4sta wrote: Why do you write more about how hopeless is scum, yet you push the rayn lynch? In your last post about rayn, which is not quoted, half of it is saying why you think he might be town. So basically, what made rayn a better lynch than hopeless yesterday? I wrote about hopeless because I wanted to look at a few other people before deciding that he was my preferred lynch. At the point where I wrote the rayn case, I hadn't looked at anyone else with much depth yet. I did explain in my post why I felt rayn was a better lynch due to admitting the weakness of the case based on the few quotes I picked out and that his relationship with rayn was based on post-flip analysis. I was making assumptions about his alignment based on rayn flipping a certain way, which wasn't what I wanted to base a day one lynch on. The biggest point against hope was that he seemed to suggest that he wanted to follow through with the 1:1 trade if rayn flipped town, even though he seemed to agree with my case and had not mentioned any suspicion of myself prior to rayn suggesting the deal. I'll likely be spending more time reading than posting this night cycle, but I may pop in from time to time. | ||
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On April 01 2014 02:02 austinmcc wrote: p.s. I think that if we can't get much agreement at all, we should lynch gumshoe (i think that's the right alternative On April 01 2014 04:42 austinmcc wrote: gumshoe has done nothing but make useless posts. On April 01 2014 04:49 austinmcc wrote: I would rather lynch gumshoe than slam, yes. When slam unvoted ten minutes before the lynch, with kush, hope, amiko and myself there are only four votes on rayn. At this point, you can either place the fourth vote on slam, which would become five after thrawn posting his intentions or you can become the second vote on gumshoe, eventually to be joined by poofter or thrawn. Yet you didn't move your vote. Questions: 1) Did you prefer a rayn or slam lynch? 2) Why didn't you move your vote to gumshoe? | ||
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On April 02 2014 03:45 austinmcc wrote: (2) Because I got a phone call shortly before the lynch. Didn't post, didn't swap vote. Honestly didn't expect rayn's death, given the number of "yeah I'm okay lynching gumshoe" posts, but wasn't around to do anything about it. raynpelikoneet (6) - kushm4sta, Alakaslam, Tehpoofter, Hopeless1der, kitaman27, Amiko Alakaslam (3) -JarJarDrinks, Djodref, Vivax kitaman27 (1) - raynpelikoneet gumshoe (1) - thrawn2112 So the votes looked something like this when you left. Lets assume that rayn and slam are acting logically and would vote for any scenario that would save themselves. Toad claimed that his vote doesn't count so I'll ignore it. Essentially for gumshoe to be lynched, he needs six votes because of critical mass. That means jarjar, djo, and vivax would need to move in the last 7 minutes, which seems possible, but difficult to pull off if they aren't present. slam would need to move from rayn to gumshoe and then one (or two depending on the slam votes) individuals that mentioned that they preferred rayn would need to move. I suppose poofter was the most likely since he did with seconds left, but he was your strong read so I'm not sure why you would expect that. Did you really expect a gumshoe lynch without your vote or was it more an issue that you were busy and didn't think things through (which I'm not faulting you for, I just want to know which one is it) | ||
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I've been running into a lot of town reads myself. At least if the mafia pulls off a conversation, it might be easier to find mafia! XD austin, do you think toad's "foolishness" read was simply an attempt to throw us off early? Does his no vote mechanic seem like a way to make up for the mafia conversion balance wise or does it seem more like a town role to you? | ||
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On April 02 2014 06:06 austinmcc wrote: I know the scum narrative is very loose, but do you think the way I interpret his posts is sensible kita? Is there a particular point where I'm not seeing what you're seeing and you think I'm coming out wrong because of that? About to drive home at the moment. I'll get back to you after dinner. | ||
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I'm kinda inclined to suggest firing the nuke into the mafia suspects to be honest, rather than going after likely third party. Not sure I'd trust his claim since he seemed so upset about it and survivor isn't really rage inducing, but until we flip our first mafia he isn't really a priority. Reading now for top to suspects. | ||
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On August 04 2013 08:59 Alakaslam wrote: he swears like his role is no fun. I think that means he is survivor. This was the only reference to a survivor that I could find from slam in past games. I suppose it supports the idea that he views the role to be boring to play. | ||
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On April 02 2014 08:54 Alakaslam wrote: I didn't notice as I was pissed, not reading. I am unaware that you did that. On April 01 2014 05:28 Alakaslam wrote: I offered this to town a long time ago and they shat on it. Too late I understand there are exceptions Well you responded directly to the request saying too late. Are you saying you forgot? | ||
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On April 02 2014 09:09 kitaman27 wrote: meh actually don't care to be honest. Even if I do think you may have omitted something from that post, your play doesn't seem scum motivated. A recruiter type role is the only real possibility to be worried about, but the cyberman flavor seems more likely for the recruiting mechanic unless there are two. Still think we should go after mafia regardless of what third party type alignment you might be, even if jarjar holds the nuke and thinks I'm mafia XD EBWOP | ||
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On April 02 2014 06:06 austinmcc wrote: I know the scum narrative is very loose, but do you think the way I interpret his posts is sensible kita? Is there a particular point where I'm not seeing what you're seeing and you think I'm coming out wrong because of that? Nevermind on that one. I've actually removed djo from my ever shrinking possible mafia lynch. Originally, I was thinking that he took the position he did knowing more information than he should about rayn and my alignments, but I don't think that applies as well as I thought. There was something else that I found townie from him that I won't go into. Well I'm down to hopeless and vivax, though not a strong feeling like I did on rayn (although apparently that wasn't a good thing). I may look into some of the people I've been ignoring like poofter. Usually I only spend time on people if something jumps out at me, but right now a ton of things aren't jumping out. | ||
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On April 02 2014 09:29 thrawn2112 wrote: yeah. i haven't read any filters or anything yet though What do you think about austin's absence at the lynch? Him moving off his 1-person vote and onto slam/gumshoe at like 30 min before the lynch likely would have started the swing. Do you buy his claim that he wasn't around at that time? I'm actually kinda inclined to believe it based on the length of the phone call he gave us out of all things, but what are your thoughts? | ||
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When I went to look at him originally, I found these quotes from persona and golden sun where he was town, which seems to match the same mentality this game. On September 16 2013 20:56 kushm4sta wrote: OP might not be survivor but he is probably 3p of some type. All the scum are going to be dying to kill him because he is an easy lynch with obvious reasons for wanting to lynch him. On September 17 2013 23:05 kushm4sta wrote: If i was cop I would defend a survivor in TWO SECONDS because it's a dumb lynch if he's a survivor. On August 21 2013 03:48 kushm4sta wrote: yawn, boring discussion about survivors. scum love this shit. It lines up with his position of not lynching slam and suggesting that we look at those that do since mafia are likely to go after third party targets. His post length seems to be what I would expect from a town kush as well. | ||
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On April 02 2014 09:48 thrawn2112 wrote: Why did you ask me? It didn't look like you were scumreading austin and I'm pretty sure it doesn't look like I'm scumreading austin. You were the guy who showed up when I asked Are you still thinking that the mafia were on the rayn lynch if kush is town? Hope is someone I want to reread, but I actually think amiko might be one of my strongest town read at the moment, so I really don't think that list is very strong. | ||
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All I ask is that I'm given a chance to defend myself first if you do indeed decide to want to use the nuke on myself over slam. I'll post my lynch preference when I return. | ||
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On April 01 2014 00:08 JarJarDrinks wrote: You purposefully emulated ur meta from a previous game in order to see if someone would call you scummy for it and not check your previous game? That was your plan to trap scum? And Rayn just happened to do exactly what you were expecting to a tee? As I mentioned, I was looking to see if anyone would go back and check my previous game showing that they were looking at my filter and history trying to draw conclusions. I'm not sure if you are aware of this or not, but Foolishness published a 30 minute video following his thought process when writing a monster post about my behavior as town. This wasn't just any random game that I picked out. rayn, austin, and toad were familiar with this, which is why I chose to use it. You'll notice that when toad mentioned his discussion with Foolishness and then came out as calling me town, I immediately thought he was town as well. I know you suggest that was trying to reproduce my town meta to trick people into thinking that I was town. I can't really say anything to refute that so that's your call. On April 02 2014 13:39 JarJarDrinks wrote: According to kita, his "trap" was that he copied his meta from his previous game and then when rayn decided not do the research to check it out, he decided that rayn was likely mafia. That was pretty much his main point on rayn. Here's a post from Kita AFTER rayn supposedly fell into his "trap": Bamn. There's proof right there that Kita retconned his rayn case. There's absolutely no way to explain how he makes that post based on this rayn case that he made later. First off, at the point where I mentioned that I preferred hopeless vs slam, I thought exactly that. hopeless seemed worse to me than rayn at the moment. It wasn't to say that I thought rayn was town at that point, but I didn't have a strong opinion. I probably hadn't even read his filter by then. What you have to keep in mind is that there was a 14 hour gap between the time I made that comment and the time that I decided that rayn was mafia. While rayn did refuse to do the research by the time of the first post, he hadn't really expressed a strong mafia read on me other than that the web was strange to him. Even in his list post, I wasn't a scum suspect to him. At that point, if he didn't think I was mafia and wanted to use his time elsewhere, so be it. This is what triggered my read on rayn going from nullish to scum: On March 31 2014 16:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: so kita and tehpoofer are most likely scum. maybe gumshoe. On March 31 2014 19:43 raynpelikoneet wrote: meh maybe poofer is town after all. He has probably the most posts and to a relatively new player it's highly unlike he is scum. At this point, by process of elimination rayn has expressed that I am his number one scum read. On March 31 2014 04:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: And yes i am trying to find mafia lla the time. At absolutely no point is he providing reasoning for his suspicion, trying to push my lynch, or really following up on his suspicions at all for that matter. Instead he is talking about the third party claim, the guy without any posts, and casually calls me mafia without any push, which isn't what I would expect from him as town. If rayn thinks I'm town and doesn't want to put the time in to do the research to show I'm scum, then fine. If rayn thinks I'm mafia however, and still does nothing about it that's a huge red flag for me and I went after him for it. You don't know how absolutely infuriating it is to spend time putting together a case on a player, wasting time reading tons of past games (and let me tell you, rayn's 30 pages filters are beyond miserable to read, but I did several), and then find out that he martyred himself, flipped town, and then tried to bring you down with him. Anyways, I've wasted enough time defending myself as it is so I really want a chance to start looking at today's lynch. No guarantees that I'll have something tonight, but definitely tomorrow with enough time prior to the lynch. | ||
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Amiko kush Djo thrawn2112 austinmcc Nullish, but probably wouldn't consider lynching Toad - I remember back in shadow being spooked by one of his posts that was something along the lines of "I'm here if anyone has any questions for me". This game he seems to be having a similar, post if called upon attitude, but not to the point where I'd call him mafia. I'm somewhat paranoid that austin or toad would be the best conversation targets, but that opens up a can of worms that I don't want to think about really until endgame. Toad's post about untargetability makes me feel better since it lines up with his dt check post, which would make a conversion target less likely assuming he is telling the truth. JarJarDrinks - Thought he was townie d1 for the most part, but chose to nuke a third party claim, rather than his number one scum suspect, which comes off scummy, regardless of the fact that I'm town. Need to decide if he chose to nuke slam because he was afraid of the consequences of flipping me or if he actually believes that I'm a better lynch target than shot. Tehpoofter - Haven't had many issues with him, but unlike the top group, there isn't anything that I can point to and tell myself that it likely makes him townie. Want more time on him. People I'd consider lynching Hopeless1der Vivax I really don't like that Toad has the most votes right now and that two of my town reads are voting for him. The fact that nobody is really pushing a target strongly is a concern as well. My next two posts will be about hope and vivax and the things I am concerned about. I tried reading both their filters from the perspective that they are buddies and it didn't really fit, so if I had to guess, it would be one, but not the other. Need to decide which one I prefer still. Would like opinions on these two if you haven't talked about them already. | ||
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On April 03 2014 20:09 Tehpoofter wrote: @DJO, Kita hopeless toad Do you think gum got a save on amiko? or do you think something else occurred? It's possible, I thought he looked pretty townie on day one and might be a good avoid the medic shot. Him or toad who claimed untargetable would be my best guess, assuming mafia had kp on n1, which isn't a given in a recruiter setup. | ||
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On April 03 2014 23:26 Crossfire99 wrote: [/center]A nuke was spotted (many hours after being launched) heading towards Alakaslam! Must be using the same radar as in the South Pacific. | ||
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On March 31 2014 07:45 Vivax wrote: The thing about Slam is that we don't know what kind of 3p there is in the game, being a closed setup he should be lynched at some point anyway, but not necessarily today, where we should rather lynch mafia. I don't like Rayn going for the "easy" lynch so quickly and calling it a day On April 01 2014 05:52 Vivax wrote: thrawn and kita vote slam and postpone any possible scum lynches we can't be sure of at this stage. It's good play to buy time lynching a wildcard The biggest problem that I have with Vivax is his inconsistency between post 1 and 2. In the first post, he goes after Rayn for the easy slam lynch stating that slam should be dealt with at some point in the future, while trying to lynch mafia instead. I agree with that point and think it's generally good policy. Mid way through the day, he suggests that Slam could be a traitor and that he was willing to support a slam lynch, not necessarily because slam was mafia, but because it was a possibility that he was mafia. By the end of the day, Vivax wants to lynch slam to postpone a rayn lynch for another day. Here is what I find scummy. I would expect a townie to follow this path of logic: 1) We should lynch mafia, rather than slam day one 2) Slam needs to be killed at some point to remove doubt, but lets see if I can find a likely mafia instead 3) rayn isn't the best lynch today, but player X is and this is why This is Vivax's path: 1) We should lynch mafia, rather than slam day one 2) Slam needs to be killed at some point to remove doubt 3) rayn isn't the best lynch today, so I guess we have no choice but to lynch slam I don't have a huge issue with Vivax wanting to not lynch rayn, but I do have an issue with the fact that he don't attempt to pursue a player that he thinks is scum. He says that he is working on things one by one, but in the end nothing comes of it. Sure, he questions thinks he finds suspicious and asks for opinions, but there is no follow up or statements attempting to convince others to lynch a certain player, rather than the settle vote at the end, which is what he was criticizing to begin with. On April 03 2014 04:26 Vivax wrote: Also give opinions on how you wanna use the nuke plz. You should really fire it on kaslam. If Vivax argues that he was completely stumped on day one, had absolutely no mafia reads, and wanted more time to find a mafia player, I really don't like his nuke preference. He criticizes rayn for going for the easy target and calling it a day, while deciding not to suggest that the nuke be fired at a scum suspect on day two. He essentially settles two cycles in a row without indicating that he actually has a strong mafia read on slam, aside from cult speculation, which is more of a guess at a possibility than anything. On April 03 2014 08:14 Vivax wrote: Toad doesn't have a vote. Or maybe kush stole his vote. Stuff like this doesn't really seem like a mindset that he is thinking about things from a town perspective. Like toad claims to have a vote, kush claims to have two votes, so for kush to steal toad's vote, that would mean both toad and kush are lying/buddies, which doesn't even make sense. His argument with hope today does seem like it makes a hope/vivax pair unlikely, which makes me worried about who else I'm overlooking. I do want to evaluate hope a bit more in depth before deciding between the two/others, but right now I'm leaning mafia. | ||
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On April 04 2014 01:42 Vivax wrote: 1. possible 2. possible 3. not discrediting anything, just speculating on...possibilities You and kita on the other hand both pushed rayn and now both push me so I'll have to reevaluate some things cause I can't imagine kita being this bad as town, although for you it's perfectly possible. So to be clear, you thought my case on rayn was valid yesterday, but today you can't imagine me being this bad as town, even though you agreed with me? | ||
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On April 04 2014 01:58 Vivax wrote: Now I'm kinda sure you're scum cause you don't reply to my defense, but pop out once you spot something that could be construed as scummy. You don't question hopeless about anything but call him scum and the information I got from him useless. lol, so you tell me not to reply to your defense until I'm done looking at hopeless and then when I'm in the process of doing so, you attack me for not responding, saying it makes me scum? You even assume that I've chosen you over hope when I haven't indicated one way or the other. What gives? | ||
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On April 04 2014 01:58 Hopeless1der wrote: Opportunistic posturing. I'm not trying to avoid responsibility for my vote but I am not all that confident that I am able to read Vivax, I'm mostly sheeping thread sentiment. People seem less inclined to vote Toad which means its between me/Vivax. My choice would be to lynch Toad if I get the chance. There are 2 votes on toad and 2 votes on Vivax. If Toad is your preferred lynch, why are you going with thread sentiment to make your decision? | ||
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On April 04 2014 02:16 Alakaslam wrote: Kita I give u powah <3 On April 04 2014 02:17 Hopeless1der wrote: Hey Kita...have you made a case on me recently that I havent seen? Nope, working on one though. On April 04 2014 02:08 Hopeless1der wrote: so that I can be bossed around and not look like I'm trying to push a scummy agenda by tunneling Toad to everyone else. What about Vivax is scummy to you? Or are you simply voting him over Toad for self-survival? | ||
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On April 04 2014 02:17 Vivax wrote: No, he never asks you a question but thinks you are worthy of today's lynch. Huh? I've asked four questions of hope within the last page of filter. | ||
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On April 04 2014 02:21 Vivax wrote: Something like: "Hey hopeless care to justify that vote on Vivax from yours cause you previously said you were biased about him? Is there any particular reason you join his lynch without saying a word about the reasons just like you did D1 when you fucking genius killed rayn on a whim after encouraging him and kita to go 1 on 1 and then not applying it the next day, effectively shrubbing off as much responsibility for the lynch as possible and not having to deliver any arguments?" lol I asked exactly that. Are you reading or just getting angry? | ||
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On April 04 2014 02:24 Vivax wrote: Yeah you just did I was still writing. Congratz on your first question to your scumread. WEEEEEEE On April 03 2014 10:15 kitaman27 wrote: Last thing for tonight....what's Vivax's alignment hopeless? On April 04 2014 01:55 kitaman27 wrote: Hope, what led you to this vote compared to when I asked last night? On April 04 2014 02:07 kitaman27 wrote: There are 2 votes on toad and 2 votes on Vivax. If Toad is your preferred lynch, why are you going with thread sentiment to make your decision? On April 04 2014 02:19 kitaman27 wrote: What about Vivax is scummy to you? Or are you simply voting him over Toad for self-survival? meh arguing with you isn't very time efficient anyways. Stepping away from the thread to finish my hopeless thoughts, then I'll reread your defense post. | ||
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On April 04 2014 02:25 JarJarDrinks wrote: I really kept getting the feeling yesterday that Hopeless and Kita were trying to bait me into shooting them. Like Maybe scum gave me the nuke and something good happens for them if they get targetted by it. Unlikely but not impossible. -_- | ||
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On April 02 2014 23:27 Hopeless1der wrote: 3P lynch is bad, but leaving slam alive is worse. I wanted slam vigged, and now we have a nuke for him. If JJD doesn't fire his nuke at slam without having an ironclad case and/or hitting scum he's being tunneled until one of us dies. I didn't like the position he took here. He admits a 3P lynch is bad, but similar to my issue on Vivax rather than trying to enforce a double lynch on two scum players, he is content with the slam shot. Like why not suggest that toad should be shot if he is his number one scum read? He sounds like he is pretty sure slam is third party, so I don't see why he isn't trying to maximize our chances of hitting scum considering none have flipped yet. On April 03 2014 05:18 Hopeless1der wrote: I cant fathom wtf gumshoe was thinking. Whatever, kush confirmed town imo, amiko is pretty goddamn likely town. i'd like to lynch JJD or Toad. On April 03 2014 08:14 Hopeless1der wrote: I wasnt making a case, I was talking more about things I found interesting about Toad. Do you think I dont realize I didn't reach a conclusion? All of my points are pretty open-ended statements, more of a summary of things Toad has done that I maybe find scummy but didn't explicitly say that. At 5:18 he shares that he wants to lynch toad and posts one reason. At 5:37 he makes his post on toad. When asked about it, hope mentions that he never came to a conclusion and was just posting open ended questions. On April 04 2014 01:58 Hopeless1der wrote: My choice would be to lynch Toad if I get the chance. Since that point, there is no real mention of toad, until this recent post here after voting Vivax. He never expresses what changed from the time he made his origional post on toad to this point that made him go from no conclusion to number one read. I also find it scummy that it took me having to ask him why he wasn't voting toad for him to vote toad. If toad is his number one read, why is he unaware of the other cases against toad and that toad is leading the votes? It seems like he is detached from the thread. On April 04 2014 03:22 Hopeless1der wrote: Sorry forgot about this. I was hoping someone would call me out for the reasons you stated because they'd likely be town, knowing blues didnt get fakeclaims to start with. I havent reviewed the thread at that point yet to see if anyone might have been thinking that. I actually agree with JarJar here. This doesn't seem like a town hunting plan to me. The reasons I'm leaning towards Vivax over hopeless at the moment: He eventually shifts his opinion from the end of day one to the beginning of day two after showing signs of reading. Mafia generally stick to their reads as long as they can get away with it. On April 03 2014 08:41 Hopeless1der wrote: so, whats the word jjd? you gonna nuke me? I really like the way that he taunted JarJar knowing that he could could end up dead for it. As mafia, this would be really gutsy to try and get into an argument with the player that holds a day vig shot. When looking through his past games, I found him refer to a lynch he opposed as a circlejerk, which he did the same this game. I know this doesn't mean much, but it's worth noting. More on Vivax in a bit. I want thoughts from others on the both of them. It should be Vivax vs Hope, not Vivax vs Hope vs Toad. | ||
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If I read his hopeless reaction from the perspective that hopeless is scum, then I agree it looks really good. However, from a Vivax is scum and hopeless is town perspective, I don't find anything that says it is impossible. | ||
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On April 04 2014 02:21 Vivax wrote: Something like: "Hey hopeless care to justify that vote on Vivax from yours cause you previously said you were biased about him? On April 04 2014 02:24 Vivax wrote: Yeah you just did I was still writing. Congratz on your first question to your scumread. WEEEEEEE This post really seems like he's made his mind up ahead of time. He literally posts the kind of behavior that he would expect from me as town, gets ninja'd by me completely replicating the behavior he is saying he would expect, and then votes me anyways moments later. | ||
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On April 04 2014 04:27 austinmcc wrote: Well yeah, not impossibility. But scum vivax pushing town or scum hopeless, what he's doing is just hammering at little inconsistencies to try and paint someone scummier than they are? It can definitely be read both ways, but vivax probably posting for a reason and pursuing someone for a reason, you think he's decided hopeless can be painted scummy with the inconsistencies? lol hopeless IS SCUMMY for inconsistencies. No painting required. | ||
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On April 04 2014 04:32 Vivax wrote: Hopeless later says he was hoping for someone to call him out for that cause he would townread him. JJD did call him out for it. Did hopeless say "wow bro u so town(also thanks for claiming blue to the thread)" to him? Nope. So i'd like to hear some about this 1. When I was talking about wanting a claim from slam, even for the sake of finding out what a fake claim could possibly sound like, austin pointed out that anyone could request one if they wanted it. With this knowledge in the thread, it really doesn't make sense that hope would decide to use the fakeclaim knowledge as a way to identify town like he is suggesting. | ||
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On April 04 2014 04:43 thrawn2112 wrote: hey kita. can you give me your bestest best reason for thinking vivax is mafia? At the beginning of day one, he argued that we should lynch mafia instead of slam and called a player scummy who settled for the easy slam lynch. Rather than pushing a mafia lynch at any point in the day, he chose to lynch slam mainly because it was better than the alternative. Then at the beginning of day two, he pushes for a slam nuke. If the only reason he wanted to lynch slam on day one was because he doesn't have any scum reads, why is he pushing a slam nuke, rather than using the 36 hours to find a scum read? He is reproducing the exact behavior he found scummy. | ||
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On April 04 2014 04:43 Hopeless1der wrote: Sure it is, blues didnt start with claims. Not that I know whether scum did =\ When I was reading through your past games, I picked up on the fact that you got annoyed when someone tried to game the setup and use mod pms to confirm towns. Why are you perfectly fine with it here? | ||
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On April 04 2014 04:51 thrawn2112 wrote: that is so bad. he is scum for changing his mind? What do you mean? | ||
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On April 04 2014 04:57 thrawn2112 wrote: kita can you go read titanic? go look at scum vivax's filter and tell me if you still think he is mafia here. i'm mostly talking about the posts he made while under pressure of being lynched. I read GoT, Roulette and The Game since I was familiar with those. I skimmed a few, but don't think titanic was one of them. I'll take a look. | ||
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On April 04 2014 04:57 austinmcc wrote: It's more saying "slam isn't scummy/is the default lynch", doing nothing to indicate he'd moved away from that, saying we should lynch/kill scummy people over slam, then on D2 being fine just using KP on slam instead of hunting for scum before defaulting to slam. The play is ... inconsistent? If he doesn't think slam is scum and thinks we should be killing scum, then why nuke slam? People who think slam is scum or NEEDS to die can call for a nuke on slam because they actively want to kill slam. Vivax appears to NOT want to kill slam over mafia, but doesn't want to find mafia over killing slam. ^ Ya this is what I'm saying. | ||
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On April 04 2014 04:57 Hopeless1der wrote: Here's the real reason i wanted ot lynch vivax: I'm a modified watcher A targetted B Vivax Targetted B I know the role name of A. I do not actually know who A is or who A targetted. I don't follow. Could you reword? | ||
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On April 04 2014 04:57 thrawn2112 wrote: kita can you go read titanic? go look at scum vivax's filter and tell me if you still think he is mafia here. i'm mostly talking about the posts he made while under pressure of being lynched. As far as I can tell, Vivax was town that game. Did you mean to say go look at town vivax's filter or am I missing something? | ||
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On April 04 2014 05:05 kitaman27 wrote: As far as I can tell, Vivax was town that game. Did you mean to say go look at town vivax's filter or am I missing something? Nevermind, you're referring to Titanic III not I. | ||
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Putting placehold while reading. | ||
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More of a bad "read everything in 100 sec" day. | ||
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On April 04 2014 08:04 Tehpoofter wrote: @kush he claimed to have visited someone. More importantly, he is Rose. | ||
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Him targeting austin doesn't necessarily make him town for me. | ||
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Whoever isn't accounted for probably is probably a recruiter or a mafia role like roleblocker, which seems likely in a setup with this many players. | ||
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On April 05 2014 04:16 austinmcc wrote: If kita flips town, vivax is the reddest red in redville? lol I don't plan on flipping unless mafia shoots me based on my claim. | ||
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On April 05 2014 04:21 thrawn2112 wrote: I don't know if I think kita is mafia. but yes. Well you wanted to lynch me yesterday and neither of us have posted much since then, so what changed? | ||
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On April 05 2014 04:19 kitaman27 wrote: lol I don't plan on flipping unless mafia shoots me based on my claim. Thrawn, was it this post of mine that shifted your views? | ||
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On April 05 2014 04:55 thrawn2112 wrote: I didn't say I'm currently townie on kita austin. the theme of this whole conversation is that I DONT KNOW what my read on kita is. if I had a read to give you I'd give it to you, but I simple don't. the kinds of posts I'm talking about like the one kita quoted, are the kinds of posts you yourself look for to try and town read people. it's the casual flippant conversational type of posts that seem more like a townie posting their immediate thoughts. I think the first time I notived kita making a post like that was at the D1 deadline, when some people started voting for gumshoe and kita made some comment about the wagon (like a disaproving, you guys are silly type of comment). So I find the way he converses with people to be townie. I just get a bad feeling about him because of his main D1 and D2 pushes. HENCE the confusion and my inability to commit to a kita read. To be perfectly honest, I'm not all that fond of your D1 and D2 pushes either. | ||
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![[image loading]](https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-eIDzzU8iSfY/TWxu0ddXUdI/AAAAAAAAAHg/1KZRotnkY5Y/s1600/dr+who.jpg) Hello! I'm The Doctor. Bread crumbed it in my first post (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smZs4LfsdAc). At this point I don't think it helps us for me to roleclaim fully. I'll let you know if I change my mind. | ||
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On April 05 2014 05:07 austinmcc wrote: WRONG DOCTOR KITA *Shines sonic screwdriver at austin in an attempt to blind him* | ||
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On April 05 2014 05:09 austinmcc wrote: Kita, without giving anything away, can you give more explanation to why you think full claiming is/isn't a good idea? Don't see the benefit at this point. | ||
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On April 05 2014 05:11 austinmcc wrote: There appear to be a number of people who do. You're also...on a lot of suspicious lists. Mainly because you're kinda suspicious over there. It's also unlikely we have TOO many cycles left in which to get things right, if we mislynch D3 that's 3 mislynches plus a shot on a townie plus a nuke on a townie. Which is...a lot of dead townies. I can think of certain reasons for you not to claim, but...........hmmmm. Maybe don't. Well I think I know best about my own role, but thanks for your input! | ||
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On April 05 2014 05:13 kitaman27 wrote: My biggest fear is that there is a 2nd third party doctor hunter or something -_- (not in relation to claiming, just in general) | ||
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3p are usually the hunter type roles, though I suppose scum role that gets strong when I die is a possibility. | ||
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Sigh... | ||
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Nope, dat waste of a check. | ||
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Toadesstern - Untargetable/No voter raynpelikoneet - Shrink JarJarDrinks - Detective gumshoe - Medic Alakaslam - Survivor Djodref - Inventor Alive kitaman27 - The Doctor (?????) austinmcc - Roleblocker Hopeless1der - Rose Watcher kushm4sta - Double voter/Day Vig Vivax - Jailkeeper Amiko - Nuker thrawn2112 - Vanilla Tehpoofter - Vanilla Based on the shrink, we know that there is likely a role that performs their conversions at night: "Each night you may to chose to protect someone by PMing that person’s name to all the hosts, and that person will be unable to be converted to an alignment different than his current alignment." We can try to use this role list to attempt to identify who does not have a confirmable night action. My first feeling is that it is really strange to have 12 players with roles and 2 vanillas. Either they are lying or likely have a role that evolves like amiko is claiming? There are two main observations I have about the list. 1) In a setup where there is a detective, watcher, medic, jailkeeper, inventor, shrink and my role, it would be pretty crazy to think that they wouldn't have a roleblocker on their team. That either implicates austin, vivax, or the vanillas. austin was town checked on night one, which leaves vivax and the vanillas. 2) The setup is over-saturated with protective roles. Medic, jailkeeper, toads self protect, (possible austin kp roleblock, did you ask if that works?) My gut tells me that mafia have a roleblocker in the form of a jailkeeper. On April 05 2014 22:45 Vivax wrote: My only fear is that kita comes back town cause of a godfather type of role. Too many of my scumspects asked for him to be checked for my taste. This has to be the scummiest post in the game. He doesn't want his number one scum read checked because I might be godfather? He clearly doesn't want his options limited here and would much rather just lynch me without a check. The other thing I'm wondering about is if hopeless's power is a mafia role meant to try to figure out who was the target of the cop checks. If claims started coming out, they would be eventually able to figure things out and plan their shots or busses accordingly. Like I mentioned earlier, I don't think hope and vivax are mafia, but I need to take another look at a few things. | ||
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On April 06 2014 01:32 Amiko wrote: I feel like your post should be renewed conviction Vivax is scum. Why isn't it? Huh? I do think so. On April 06 2014 00:09 kitaman27 wrote: Like I mentioned earlier, I don't think hope and vivax are mafia, but I need to take another look at a few things. This says hope AND vivax (as in scum buddies) | ||
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On April 06 2014 08:08 Vivax wrote: At the very least if I see somebody claiming my rolename I will ask him if that's a real claim. But kita remains completely disinterested. I was disinterested. He was just role playing. It wasn't like he was claiming "I AM THE DOCTOR. FOLLOW ME UNQUESTIONABLY." I even soft defended him early day one, figuring that mafia were unlikely to claim a role they knew was town. On a side note, I haven't eaten today and this post is taking forever. Definitely will finish it tonight though. Food time. | ||
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kitaman27
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If you wanna get a head start on what my post goes into, here you go: "You are the Doctor, the last remaining Time Lord. Being a Time Lord you can survive things most people can’t, thus giving you an extra night life (you are a vet). Unfortunately, you have only your sonic screwdriver with you because you can’t get to your time machine, the TARDIS. Thankfully, your sonic screwdriver can do practically anything. This means you have the following three abilities to choose from each night: protect, track, roleblock. You must use each of these abilities the same number of times before using another ability again, e.g. you must use each ability once before using any ability twice, you must use each ability twice before using any ability three times, etc. PM your action and your target’s name to all hosts. You win with the Town." N1) track djo N2) protect austin | ||
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kitaman27
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On April 06 2014 09:49 Vivax wrote: EBWOP: If thrawn was his buddy. Looks like I got faster fingers kita, or I'm faster cause I don't need time to make up fake arguments. Right, because fake arguments clearly take longer to write than real ones. GOOD JOB CHAMP. | ||
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kitaman27
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![[image loading]](http://www.nerdist.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/tenth-doctor.jpg) Time to save the day, like only the Doctor could! First off, here is my role PM. "You are the Doctor, the last remaining Time Lord. Being a Time Lord you can survive things most people can’t, thus giving you an extra night life (you are a vet). Unfortunately, you have only your sonic screwdriver with you because you can’t get to your time machine, the TARDIS. Thankfully, your sonic screwdriver can do practically anything. This means you have the following three abilities to choose from each night: protect, track, roleblock. You must use each of these abilities the same number of times before using another ability again, e.g. you must use each ability once before using any ability twice, you must use each ability twice before using any ability three times, etc. PM your action and your target’s name to all hosts. You win with the Town." I still say that it doesn't benefit town much claiming, aside from getting a better picture of what the setup could possibly look like, but enough people are asking that it would be more of a distraction otherwise. Aside from a possible endgame save with my vet, my role likely won't save the game by itself. Since no mafia have flipped, its more important to try to solve the game today. On night one, I tracked Djodref. I saw him visit JarJar and concluded that he had given him the nuke. On April 02 2014 05:38 kitaman27 wrote: Try reading it from the "if I were a townie djo or if I were a mafia djo how would I post?" perspective and let me know which makes more sense to you. On April 02 2014 09:17 kitaman27 wrote: Nevermind on that one. I've actually removed djo from my ever shrinking possible mafia lynch. Originally, I was thinking that he took the position he did knowing more information than he should about rayn and my alignments, but I don't think that applies as well as I thought. There was something else that I found townie from him that I won't go into. Prior to the deadline, I hinted that I had a mafia read on Djo, which was the reason that I tracked him. After discovering that he had visited JarJar, I went back and looked into his filter finding this post: On April 01 2014 18:18 Djodref wrote: Oh and yeah, I really think JJD is town because of the slips arguments. I don't think you come with these kind of arguments when you're are mafia. I really believe that JJD is looking for these kind of slips in other players filters. As a result, I felt that his target followed a townie line of reasoning as he visited his most trusted player. As an inventor, he could have invented something incredibly anti-town, but he chose not to, which is why my read swapped so suddenly without explanation. "There was something else that I found townie from him that I won't go into." should make it pretty obvious that I tracked him. On Night Two, I protected austin. I bread crumbed it in my post here: On April 05 2014 05:09 kitaman27 wrote: *Shines sonic screwdriver at austin in an attempt to blind him* I went back and forth between using protect and roleblock last night. If I had a confirmation that kp are delivered fractionally, then I likely would have thrown a roleblock on vivax since I could possibly stop a conversion too. I decided that I was more likely to prevent a shot through protection in the end. There were two people I considered protecting: 1) austin 2) Djo austin appeared pretty townie throughout day one and day two. He is also one of the few players that in my opinion have the ability to completely solve the game single handily. Protecting him ensured that I would have a player that will almost certainly be active on day three that I would be able to bounce ideas off. Djo was the inventor. As far as I'm aware, I was the only person who was aware of this at the time. While djo wasn't a huge suspect, he didn't appear like a huge threat to the mafia team, unless they knew his role. Even if djo got shot, he would still be able to invent an item that would be used this cycle. While he had the more powerful role, I thought austin was more likely to get hit so I got greedy. Obviously, I made a mistake there (actually hurt my foot kicking the door when I read the day post -_-) Tonight, I will be forced to use my roleblock since it is the only role I have not used yet. As an aside, I am not informed whether or not I still have my vet status. I could have taken a hit night one when all the kp were missing, but I'm not sure I would have been a likely target, especially with the whole rayn 1v1 ordeal. I know this argument is based on trusting my role claim, but consider the fact that I knew djo was the inventor on day two and he was not converted or roleblocked. The inventor is by far the strongest role in the game and if the mafia had the ability to convert that role, they most certainly would. You can say that it was supicious that djo was shot when I knew his role, but at the same time, if I was mafia and was going to shoot him I most certainly would have roleblocked him as well. Shooting him alone means another invention is still created, which mafia would not want to deal with. This is based on the assumption that you believe that I have a roleblock. While you would need to trust me, I can confirm my power if necessary, by rbing hopeless tonight and ensuring that he does not receive any results. Furthermore, I am a vet in a setup where town does not have any kp. That doesn't make sense as a mafia role, although again, I can't prove that part of my role right now. Now lets take a look at our list of investigative, protective roles, and roleblocking roles: Investigative: Detective, 1-shot tracker, modified watcher Protective Roles: Medic, Jailkeeper, 1-shot protect, my vet role, Shrink Roleblocking: Roleblocker, Jailkeeper, 1-shot roleblock On top of these three categories, there is the inventor which could fit into any of these categories on a given day. There are two things to consider with the set of role claims that we currently have: 1) Is it reasonable to think that all roles in a given category are town aligned? With the sheer number of power roles, I'm almost certain that the mafia team would need some type of roleblocking or redirection type role. In a normal mini setup, you'll generally give the mafia a roleblocker if there are two blues in the game. In this game, there are 11 claimed power roles. Sure, the conversion mechanic that is likely in the game can help deal with the burden, but with extremely powerful roles like Detective, Jack, Inventor, etc, they would simply get overrun with night actions. JarJar claimed to have green checked austin on night one. Based on his play and the fact that the godfather and roleblocker role aren't usually built into one role, I'm willing to trust the check. Assuming there is a mafia roleblocker in this game and non of the claims have a roleblocking ability on top of what they already do, that leaves the Jailkeeper or vanilla roles as being suspicious, aka one of Vivax, thrawn, and Tehpoofter. The number of protective roles is off the chart. Even if the mafia team survives the onslaught of investigative roles, they won't even be able to get their shots through. gumshoe and rayn have already flipped town. It makes very little sense for town to have a medic AND jailkeeper. Again, that leaves Vivax as being suspicious. We have a ton of investigative roles as well, especially when you assume that the inventor is likely going to be producing dt checks of his own. Like I mentioned earlier, one thing I considered was that the Mickey role could have been created for mafia to counteract the Rose role. Whenever Rose performs an alignment check on a player, Mickey would receive information that could provide clues as to who Rose just checked. If the player name that Mickey receives from his result claims at any point, then Mickey knows who has been checked. This is helpful in two ways. 1) The mafia team would know who there is a red check on. They would have the opportunity to bus that player, prior to the dt posting their checks making the remaining members look good as a result. 2) The mafia team would know who there is a green check on. They would be able to either shoot that player outright or even more powerful, target them with a conversion, allowing them to have a mafia player with a green alignment check on them. As a town role, this makes less sense. I suppose a modified watcher is plausible, but knowing who a town Rose targeted isn't very useful and once she dies, the role is pretty useless. The watcher isn't targeted, so there isn't much room for a town player to pull off a skilled night action. Detective, inventor, 1-shot tracker, and watcher seems too harsh for mafia to go up against as well. My argument here also assumes that the Mickey role would have knowledge that Rose is a detective. JarJar was shot before claiming so there is some evidence to support this, but its not conclusive. Between the two scenarios that I just outlined, I think Vivax being mafia seems more likely than Hopeless being mafia. If he is red, it would fit both the "mafia has a rber" and the "town has too many protective roles" conjecture. Like I said before, I need to further investigate if hopeless and Vivax as scum buddies make sense or if one, but likely not until one of them flips. Finally, it is strange that 12 players in this game would have roles and two wouldn't. 2) Which actions can be confirmed as performing a non-conversion action on night one and night two? I think its pretty obvious all roles in this game can't possibly be town aligned. If there are things like a framer or busdriver, the mafia player would need to use their role without claiming a verifiable real action. Additionally, the Shrink role description from rayn strongly suggests that the mafia conversion role is used as a night action. Thus, I've put together a list of all claimed actions. If there is an asterisk next to the cycle, then the action is verifiable. This way, we can figure out who we know wouldn't have been able to use one of these mafia roles.
*Cycle One: Roleblock toad (Confirmed by town check, assuming not godfather) *Cycle Two: Roleblock kita (Confirmed by revealing prior to Vivax JK claim) kitaman27 *Cycle One: Track djo to jarjar Cycle Two: Protect austin Hopeless1der *Cycle One: Watch austin (See Vivax) *Cycle Two: Watch kita thrawn2112 Cycle One: None Cycle Two: None raynpelikoneet *Cycle One: None JarJarDrinks *Cycle One: Dt check austin *Cycle Two: Dt check kita kushm4sta *Cycle One: Double vote *Cycle Two: Shoot gumeshoe Vivax Cycle One: Jailkeeper austin (unverified action, but target confirmed) *Cycle Two: Jailkeeper austin (confirmed by roleblock and austin not appearing in hope results) Djodref *Cycle One: Invents nuke, gives to JarJar *Cycle Two: Invents dt check, gives to kush Amiko Cycle One: None Cycle Two: Received nuke gumshoe *Cycle One: Protected Amiko Tehpoofter Cycle One: None Cycle Two: None If you look at the list of claims, thrawn, Amiko, and Tehpoofter are the only players that do not have anything verifiable on night one or night two. I'm also going to add kush to this list, for while he has verifiable day actions, that doesn't mean its not possible for him to have additional roles during the night. Earlier I mentioned the strangeness of there being two vanilla roles in a 14 player setup. I think it's very likely that either these roles are similar to amiko (assuming he is telling the truth), in that his role changes in some way without his knowledge that he is actually vanilla or that these are fake claims. Here are the claims that we got from amiko, thrawn and poofter in chronological order. On April 05 2014 05:00 Amiko wrote: "You are Porridge, a “little bloke” in the words of Angie Maitland, who you met at one of the greatest amusement parks in the galaxy, Hedgewick’s World of Wonders. You were part of con involving Webley who convinced others that he repurposed a nonfunctioning Cyberman to play chess when in reality it was just you who played chess from a little compartment. You win with the Town." On April 05 2014 05:01 thrawn2112 wrote: "You are Artie Maitland, brother of Angie Maitland. Luckily for you, Clara Oswald is your nanny, so you were able to travel to one of the greatest amusement parks in the galaxy, Hedgewick’s World of Wonders, and that’s pretty much all you’re known for. You win with the Town." On April 05 2014 08:30 Tehpoofter wrote: "You are Angie Maitland, sister of Artie Maitland. Luckily for you, Clara Oswald is your nanny, so you were able to travel to one of the greatest amusement parks in the galaxy, Hedgewick’s World of Wonders, and that’s pretty much all you’re known for. You win with the Town." Something I've considered is whether or not the mafia fake claimed vanilla as scum, without knowledge that there actually aren't any true vanilla roles. The time between Amiko and thrawn's claim is only one minute so I do not think there is adequate time for thrawn to react and assume that vanilla is a possible claim to make. Tehpoofter on the other hand claims two hours afterwards and after seeing two vanilla claims, maybe have assumed that he could have gotten away with a vanilla claim. Mafia are provided with fake claims, but even if you have a fake claim, you need to be able to show how your actions make sense. Claiming vanilla is often the simplest solution. I'm wondering if Tehpoofter is actually Angie Maitland, but chose to modify his role to vanilla for claiming purposes. Based on my understanding of the Doctor Who wiki, Angie Maitland is a character whose mind fuels the Cyber-Planner. According to the wiki, the Cyber-Planner was a device used by the Cybermen to "create and direct battle plans and strategies." This seems like it could fit the flavor of a possible mafia role, rather than having a typical town character like Mickey, randomly show up on the mafia team. Why Vivax is mafia. As I mentioned earlier, the analysis of the setup points to a mafia Vivax. Town likely doesn't have two dedicated protection roles. Mafia likely has a roleblocker to deal with the insane amount of power roles. However, I'm also led to believe that Vivax is mafia based on behavioral analysis. I've already brought up some of these points, but I'm including them for the sake of bringing everything together. 1) An inconsistency in his views On April 01 2014 03:38 Vivax wrote: I like how you explain things around rayn here in your post in spoiler since I got the feeling that he's creating a lot of confusion and drama and I don't like that, it's just that I can't tell if he's doing it on purpose or cause he's just being like that and town but what I do see is that he throws around with scumreads without trying to let them be productive. He's accusatory not inquisitive and he reminds me of the kind of attitude I saw on him in that game where he hydraed with Mocsta as scum, in which he also behaved pretty negatively throughout the game. On April 01 2014 03:46 Vivax wrote: The way you replied to rayn made me feel better about you cause you pointed out his disruptive attitude. On April 04 2014 01:42 Vivax wrote: You and kita on the other hand both pushed rayn and now both push me so I'll have to reevaluate some things cause I can't imagine kita being this bad as town, although for you it's perfectly possible. Read these posts in succession. On day one, he shares multiple times that he likes the way I approached rayn on day one and supports the way that I approached his disruptive attitude, even if he would have rather lynched slam to buy us some more time to look into rayn. However, the following day he states that he "can't imagine kita being this bad as town". This is a complete shift in attitude. At no point during day one does he call my case on rayn bad. Now suddenly I'm so bad that there is no way that I'm anything but mafia. The sudden shift in view points does not seem congruent for town play. Rather than explaining things, in his defense he argued that the reason that he posted this was that I wasn't interested in listening to his defense. The problem with this? This time line is IMPOSSIBLE! (Unless you're a time lord) He argues that I'm bad and therefore scum because I'm not willing to consider his response. However, from the time I make my case on Vivax to the time he calls me bad, I haven't posted. So how could I be bad for ignoring his defense post, when there is no evidence that I'm even in the thread? This is a logical fallacy that Vivax chooses to push anyways. 2) A predetermined agenda regardless of facts On April 04 2014 02:17 Vivax wrote: No, he never asks you a question but thinks you are worthy of today's lynch. On April 04 2014 02:21 Vivax wrote: Something like: "Hey hopeless care to justify that vote on Vivax from yours cause you previously said you were biased about him? Is there any particular reason you join his lynch without saying a word about the reasons just like you did D1 when you fucking genius killed rayn on a whim after encouraging him and kita to go 1 on 1 and then not applying it the next day, effectively shrubbing off as much responsibility for the lynch as possible and not having to deliver any arguments?" Mid-way day two, Vivax starts attacking me for the way that I'm dealing with hope. He is suspicious of the fact that I'm not questioning him and provides an example of the sort of question that I would be asking if I had the town mindset. The problem here? I asked that exact question before he makes this post. On April 04 2014 01:55 kitaman27 wrote: Hope, what led you to this vote compared to when I asked last night? On April 04 2014 02:19 kitaman27 wrote: What about Vivax is scummy to you? Or are you simply voting him over Toad for self-survival? Even though I'm doing exactly what he said a town Kita would be doing, he doesn't show signs of reconsidering his views at all. It seems as if he has already made up his mind and if the evidence isn't there to support it, then so be it. This is strongly indicative of a mafia trait. On April 04 2014 02:24 Vivax wrote: Yeah you just did I was still writing. Congratz on your first question to your scumread. WEEEEEEE Rather than give some thought into reconsider his read, he responds with this sarcastic remark. On top of this, it wasn't my first question, it was like my fourth or fifth. If Vivax has such a strong mafia read on me, why isn't he reading my filter here? In fact, I know he is aware of that fact that I have been questioning hopeless because he wanted to know my reason for asking. On April 03 2014 10:25 Vivax wrote: Before you check out you might want to tell us why you're interested into hopeless' read on me. He later says that he doesn't know what I'm trying to accomplish for the question. So I'm scummy for asking hopeless a question and scummy for not asking hopeless a question all at the same time! 3) Scummy decision making at the time that matters most On April 04 2014 05:06 Vivax wrote: Guys, let's get back to business for a moment while hopeless thinks what he should write. We need a lynch, hopeless is out of question for today imo. Kita or Toad pick one. On April 04 2014 05:24 Vivax wrote: can we postpone role discussion to night phase when time isn't so short and discuss today's lynch? Who Toad, who Kita, who anyone else. For someone who is so sure that I am mafia, he actually doesn't put any effort into getting me lynched. Do you wanna know why? So he can push me again the next day. Notice how he leaves it up to town to decide between myself and Toad, rather than take charge and lynch the player that he is so sure is mafia. He lacks a strong case against toad, aside from the fact that he is useless and don't have a vote. He has multiple talking points about why I am mafia, yet he doesn't care between the two. On April 04 2014 05:24 Vivax wrote: Essentially I don't have a preference between the two but on a tie I'll probably go onto Toad for purposes of damage mitigation in case we mislynch. Not really a problem if we lose a guy who can't vote and is invulnerable and maybe mafia. His explanation is priceless. He is voting toad for the purposes of "damage mitigation in case we mislynch". Have you ever heard of an explanation as weak as this? At no point have I claimed a role here. Toad on the other hand has claimed invulnerable, aka bulletproof, aka ONE OF THE STRONGEST POSSIBLE ROLES IN THE GAME. Yet, he somehow uses this to justify the lynch? If you look at the day one lynch, he also is completely absent when it comes to picking a lynch preference and slamming it down our throats. He shows up towards the end saying that he wants to lynch the survivor claim, but is not a force during the actual day cycle. He doesn't pick apart the argument against rayn, he simply states that rayn is not a good day one lynch and that we need more time. He follows up with a day two push of the survivor claim as the nuke target, without putting in any effort into suggesting mafia targets instead. He says that he wants to kill slam because he doesn't have any scum reads. Well why isn't he showing signs of trying to develop scum reads, rather than going after the easy third party target? 4) The scum post of the century On April 05 2014 13:06 Vivax wrote: I'm kinda afraid to have kita checked cause thrawn and poofter both seem eager for that to happen and I don't want him to be a godfather in that case cause then it's gg. From a mafia Vivax perspective, I'm his only real scum read at this point, but he knows that I'm going to return town to any possible detective checks. So even before the check is out, he is already pushing the godfather suspicions. Knowing that he can't possibly continue to push me if I'm checked, he has no choice but to try to move the check over to someone else because "thrawn and poofter" want it to happen. He likely knows that the game will be decided today and that if there isn't a green check then I'm going to likely be lynched. A check on someone else doesn't matter because I'll be lynched, mafia will get their night hits and town will likely lose control of the day four lynch. What townie honestly thinks to themself: "I've thought that guy is mafia all game, but not that we have the chance to prove it, we better not because he has a 5% chance of being a godfather. If there is a green check on me, he knows that I'm likely going after him and have the town cred to back it up. Vivax is mafia. ##Vote Vivax There are a number of other issues that I'd like to follow up on, but likely won't today. I want to reread hopeless to determine if his play is scummy following the assumption that the Mickey role makes more sense as mafia. I want to see if there is any merit to the thrawn, poofter or kush being a possible mafia recruiter. I'm eliminating amiko due to my strong town read on him earlier on. I want to reread austin's case on kush and myself. Even if I know we are not scum buddies, that doesn't mean he couldn't have decided to check me as town and get away with the town cred. I also started putting together a list of reads from each player from cycle to cycle to see if I could identify any players that would be likely conversion targets, but I simply don't have the time to finish it. Ironic, considering I have a time machine. Finally, I need to decide what should be done with the nuke, whether we fire it today or during the night and who should we target. I don't think I've ever spend so much time on a single post before. Please read every word, rather than skimming it. I think I deserve it based on the amount of effort I put it. At this point I'm so sick of this post that I didn't proof read it, so I apologize for any weird unfinished thoughts or confusing arguments due to typos. | ||
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On April 06 2014 11:04 austinmcc wrote: I think points 2 and 3 are legit. I'm skeptical to believe Vivax could be scum given our recent turn as scum in III Titanic. I also think he is buddying you to death. Why aren't 1 or 2 legitimate? | ||
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On April 06 2014 11:08 kitaman27 wrote: I also think he is buddying you to death. Why aren't 1 or 2 legitimate? Err 1 or 4? | ||
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On April 06 2014 11:15 austinmcc wrote: III Titanic, 3 page filter, was the D1 lynch, mafia Cultured mini, vivax 19 filter pages in 3 full cycles as town vigi Game of thrones, vivax ~4 page filter, lynched on D3, mafia Replaces into Bluelightz Mafia: The Attack, ~4-5 page filter in les than 2 full cycles, town Titanic Mini, ~8 page filter, NKed N1, town At least over the last chunk of time, he's much more posty as town, across the board. 3 and 4 pages in his scum games, compared to the first titanic with 8 pages in his first cycle. He's 11 pages in this game, which is a pretty decent amount compared to a lot of the players. That's a point in his favor. Need to look at specific posts, but I wanted to check on that since we were JUST scum together and it didn't appear that either one of us could get our crap together and post. Caveat to that is that these were different games, there was a lot of posting in titanic, not so much activity here. He has 11 page and 13 page filters in the two scum games before so that alone isn't enough to discredit the argument. Looking at filter length in a game he was killed day 1 doesn't mean much at all. | ||
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On April 06 2014 11:24 Vivax wrote: Kita post a pic of your foot being hurt after kicking that door. I want a huge nice haematoma. It's a good thing I'm a doctor. | ||
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On April 06 2014 11:50 austinmcc wrote: Kita I would very much appreciate you looking at kush's filter or just at my posts on Kush (pg. 114). It's not a terrible read, it's not a big time-waster. I would love to hear just basic basic rough guesses. Kush mafia? Kush possible mafia behind like 1 mistaken read? Kush and Vivax sexy mafia friendzzz? kk, I'll do that first thing in the morning after I wake up (which may be afternoon EST, but I'm sure its morning somewhere) | ||
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On April 06 2014 12:22 austinmcc wrote: Urg. Super important day for town in this game. We need to lynch scum. Kita's semi-not-around for a bunch of it, clearly puts a bunch of work into some posts, makes points, has a train of thought, blah blah blah. Okay, great. And he sticks around to talk about his post a little. Alright, good. But in the ~48ish minutes of making his post and leaving thread, while he talks about it a little and responds, he doesn't just go....check stuff on kush? Again, we NEED to lynch scum, and should want to know if kush is scum with vivax, more likely scum than vivax, if vivax is super scummy and therefore kush is townie because of whatever. But he just...doesn't. He drops his case and moves things forward a little but in the tiny bit of extra time he's not like...looking for more. I don't think you understand. I spent 5 hours on that post. FIVE HOURS. I'm exhausted. | ||
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Also, myself, Vivax and austin aren't the only players in this game. Everyone else needs to put in their fair share. | ||
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On April 06 2014 12:26 Vivax wrote: The thing is, the part where you said you hurt your foot kinda gave me townie vibes cause it seems like a weird thing for scum to make up although not impossible, so I'm currently trying to consider the chance that you might be town, but I can't do that if you only keep focusing on me, if you're town I want to congratulate you for spending 5 hours on posting a case on a townie. I'm willing to acknowledge the fact that even if you are mafia, there are still others out there as well. I'll try my best to look, but I won't guarantee you that I'd be willing to push them over you if I find something, | ||
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On April 06 2014 12:26 Vivax wrote: The thing is, the part where you said you hurt your foot kinda gave me townie vibes cause it seems like a weird thing for scum to make up although not impossible, so I'm currently trying to consider the chance that you might be town, but I can't do that if you only keep focusing on me, if you're town I want to congratulate you for spending 5 hours on posting a case on a townie. And on top of that, you weren't the sole focus of the post. There were large sections on how hopeless's Mickey role seems like it makes sense as a mafia role and how poofter seems like the best bet for a mafia recruiter role. | ||
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On April 06 2014 12:29 Vivax wrote: Also a lot of people had brought arguments as to why I'm town, you only seem to try and bring arguments as to why I'm scum. I would love to respond to the points you make in your post but last time I did that you simply skipped my defense, also you keep not asking me stuff which again looks scummy to me. I'm in the thread and always willing to discuss stuff with you if you're willing to not simply skip on my replies to attach on something else. To be completely honest, trying to convince your scum read that they are scum never accomplishes anything. If there is a specific point that you need me to examine let me know. I do see things that would make it possible that you are town. Right now, the mafia sided things outweigh it, but I haven't decided 100% without a doubt you need to die today. | ||
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To all those still alive and active in both, you guys are crazy. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On April 06 2014 14:04 Amiko wrote: My concern is this - we don’t know exactly how conversions happen. We’ve speculated (maybe it happens odd nights?) but I think the only sure thing is that it happens at night (based on rayn’s role PM). If I nuke during the day, the nuke may kill someone who could have converted. Maybe not, I don’t know if converted people can convert or what. Also, I’d kind of like to hold other players to the same standard as me: if the other VTs get nukes tomorrow, I think I want to be able to require that they shoot during the day. I'd say hold off considering you will need to fire within the next few hours to make the deadline. Nobody is going to be around to post and personally, I'd like the opportunity to look at a few other people before suggesting the nuke target. Lynch will also give us clues so we would be able to make a more informed decision. The only thing I'd be worried about is a roleblock, but if austin roleblocks me, I roleblock vivax and vivax roleblocks austin, then we can ensure that nothing sketchy happens. "Each night you may to chose to protect someone by PMing that person’s name to all the hosts, and that person will be unable to be converted to an alignment different than his current alignment. If you successfully prevent someone from being converted, you will die protecting them." Rayn's role makes it sound as if the conversions are a night action, so you likely wouldn't need to worry about it if you fired it at the start of the night. There may be a chance that you get converted after shooting a scum, which would kinda suck though | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
For all I care you can nuke hopeless. You should cause I won't be following kita's plan and lose the last chance to see if I can offensive jail. Kita's plan is useless anyway cause if one of us is scum he simply doesn't follow it and next day scum has won.[QUOTE] That doesn't make sense. If one of us is scum, they would be roleblocked by the other town player and unable to follow through with their protect anyways. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On day one, he seems fairly townie to me. He pushes against the slam d1 lynch before the rayn lynch has been established and seems to be looking for scum slips. Once day two arrives, I start to have more issues. He starts defending me as if he knows that I'm town. On April 02 2014 13:49 kushm4sta wrote: 2 if you look at kita's case, he is quite open about having doubts that rayn is scum, and he points out things about rayn that look townie. This post seems scummy to me, because while it's true that I shared doubts about rayn, he automatically assumes that its for townie reasons, rather than me simply trying to hedge my bets and look better when rayn flips town. Take a look at how his views on Vivax evolve: On April 04 2014 01:32 kushm4sta wrote: ##Vote Vivax ^that's what i think about your defense. On April 04 2014 01:36 kushm4sta wrote: Vivax you have been subtly pushing the idea that I'm scum for a very long time. Also the idea that I will probably become scum in the future. Here you are trying to discredit my claim in a way that makes absolutely no sense. On April 04 2014 07:12 kushm4sta wrote: austin you have a townread on vivax? On April 04 2014 07:19 kushm4sta wrote: Vivax - probably town He goes from wanting to lynch Vivax on day two because of a bad defense, to asking austin about the read, to suddenly going to probably town because he "overestimated what his town games look like". What happened to the "terrible" defense that Vivax gave on day two that caused kush to vote him? He uses a minor point, while ignoring the bigger one, to justify a huge swing in reads, which seems scummy to me. On April 06 2014 10:02 kushm4sta wrote: also you realize im mother fucking river song right? This post is pretty scummy as well. When austin posts his case, rather than responding to anything he posts, he pushes the idea that a town sounding role can't possibly be mafia. On April 06 2014 10:59 kushm4sta wrote: i feel like half of this game has already been converted and everyone is mafia conspiring against me. He then posts a 1 liner about the case and then this, after which he disappears from the thread. He has a green check on me, yet he puts absolutely no effort into commenting on my case or even acknowledging that it exists. If I had a player I knew for a fact was town, I'd at least listen to what he has to say. Finally, his justification to waste the dt check on me is incredibly scummy. On April 05 2014 18:37 kushm4sta wrote: he says townie shit d1. he doesn't say townie shit for the rest of the game. He says that his read on me has changed from d1, yet on night two I'm "hella town". There isn't any indication that he is suspicious of me prior to changing his read. On April 02 2014 13:40 kushm4sta wrote: But in actuality, if kita were scum, he probably wouldn't have said that at all because he would be extra careful not to reveal he has too much information. On April 05 2014 18:45 kushm4sta wrote: cause rayn had a power role directly relating to conversions. So does kita probably since he mentioned conversions d1. One of the reasons he justifies checking me is my knowledge of conversions. On day one he mentioned that I would be careful to not reveal the setup and now on day three he wants to check because because I have setup knowledge again? If he is refering to the fact that I'm a likely conversion target and not the setup knowledge, how could he possibly think that? rayn martyred himself to ensure my death and 75% of the players have a scum read on me going into day three. How could he possibly justify that I've been converted over the players that everyone thought I was town? If he thought I was mafia from the start, that would be one thing, but the number one conversion target makes no sense. On April 04 2014 07:19 kushm4sta wrote: kitaman27 - hella town thrawn2112 - possible scum Amiko - possible scum Tehpoofter - possible scum On April 05 2014 18:23 kushm4sta wrote: ok so i just read kita. d1 is really townie but then his activity falls off a lot. I wasn't really thinking about scum that could have been converted but yeah both kita and tehpoof look like possible conversions. I'm checking kita. The people on this list are who would I would be especially suspicious of if we were to lynch him and he flipped mafia. Originally, I assumed kush was probably town for just town checking me to save me from a lynch. What I'm thinking now is that he didn't have a choice with the nuke in play. If he fake claimed and had a red check, then he would essentially be trading himself 1 for 1 with me at night and confirming amiko as town for nuking him. It's possible that someone like thrawn or tehpoof is his scum buddy and checking them would force him to either lie about the check or bus a scum buddy. This is especially dangerous in a situation with a nuke. If his check is ever revealed to be false, both himself and his check go down together. I think kush may have been a possible conversion target. He is never shot by mafia and usually makes it pretty far because people just ignore him. Scum may have wanted to acquire his day vig ability, not realizing that it was 1-shot on night two. I need to look if a kush/vivax pair makes sense. If it does, then we might have a chance this game after all. If the pair doesn't make sense and I had to choose between the two, I'm not sure who I would go with yet. At least Vivax has the fact that he is active and cares about the game going for him. kush on the other hand is just observing at this point. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On April 03 2014 04:37 Vivax wrote: Kush just to be sure, do you think revealing the details of your role could benefit scum? If not, please post details. On April 03 2014 05:03 Vivax wrote: Fuck's sake. Kush, is it a 1-shot-ability? On April 03 2014 05:06 Vivax wrote: Kush u genius say it's one-shot -.- This exchange seems really natural. I don't think this is something that you rehearse in the qt, because kush seems that he doesn't have a clue what Vivax is getting at. On April 03 2014 08:14 Vivax wrote: Or maybe kush stole his vote. He also doesn't seem to have knowledge of kush's role here. On April 04 2014 01:32 kushm4sta wrote: ##vote vivax On April 04 2014 01:32 kushm4sta wrote: ^that's what i think about your defense. I know kush likes to bus scum buddies, but his vote really opened the opportunity for a lynch if people agreed with my original case. The one thing that I do think is fishy is his sudden change of read on Vivax from scum -> town without a real explanation. Today he hasn't even really considered him at a point that could possibly be LYLO. Based on my gut and that first exchange between the two, I'd say they probably aren't scum buddies together. Bah, gotta think about this now. I guess I'll try to see who would be likely kush buddies and likely vivax buddies and then go with whatever group seems more likely. I still want to read hope one more time because he is definitely being overlooked right now. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
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kitaman27
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Another thing that kush has against him vs vivax is that I'm inclinded to believe both of his jailkeeper actions. We know he jailed you night two for sure, so a night one jail is also likely. kush on the other hand doesn't have verifiable night actions, though I actually think a conversion makes more sense for kush than original mafia. If you had to come up with a team for kush, Y, and Z and vivax, Y, and Z who would it be? | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
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kitaman27
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On April 07 2014 01:55 Amiko wrote: @kitaman27: I am going through your comments, if you have time while I read please answer this: What do you think of the possibility that scum has a driver? You mention it briefly as a possibility with regard to verifiable night actions/ I have followup question(s) after that. It could definitely be possible. With so many power roles out there, I would think they would need at least some way to deal with them. As far as I can think, we haven't had any wacky night actions results though. All the claims seem to line up with actually happened so far. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On April 07 2014 02:14 Amiko wrote: I thought I finished that sentence. I was saying maybe kita is a busdriver because Dr. Who takes the kids to the amusement park, but that's just whoknows lore speculation. If I'm a busdriver, do you not believe my explanation of tracking djo? | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
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kitaman27
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On April 07 2014 04:02 Tehpoofter wrote: ##Vote: Kushm4sta Its time to pick a side and kush's role seems too good to be town. Saving this post for later. Out of all the reasons to want to lynch kush, his role being "too good to be town" is a really weak way to jump on the wagon. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On April 07 2014 04:06 kushm4sta wrote: it's okay. my army of cyberzombies will kill you all Does suppose you wanna tell us more? | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
I wonder if all the mafia roles are cybermen related and the townie sounding ones are fake claims? So I guess this means he was original scum and not converted after all? | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On April 07 2014 07:45 Vivax wrote: What imo is a strong indicator of kita being mafia is that scum shot Djo knowing that me and hopeless were both blue (if hope isn't scum), they would never take such a risk of not shooting a claimed blue without already KNOWING Djo was inventor, and inventor is clearly a much better role than a claimed JK or such a watcher. Then explain why I wouldn't roleblock djo knowing that he was the inventor and protected austin instead? That's essentially a free nuke or dt check added to the game because I was feeling generous? Djo claimed blue early on in the game so it's only a process of elimination to figure out his identity. I'm also on the nuke tp bandwagon. He jumps on kush for a weak reason, he has a vanilla role which is likely fake and kush chose not to check him even though he was his strongest scum read. Instead, he checked the player he claimed to have a town read on for most of the game. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
"So the plan was this: Your roleblocker 1 roleblocks me, roleblocker 2 (kita) roleblocks Djo. " So who is our mysterious roleblocker? Are you saying it was 4v4 yesterday? You just said 4v4 was unreasonable a few moments ago? | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On April 07 2014 11:00 Vivax wrote: Hopeless can have additional powers he simply didn't claim. So he just decided to guess that nobody else visited austin hoping that he wouldn't get caught in a lie? Or are you saying he performed two actions at once? | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
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kitaman27
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kitaman27
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On April 07 2014 11:42 Vivax wrote: Converted N1. Tell me this, kita. Why have you been stalling with your roleclaim? Specifically you only claimed after everybody else already had claimed their actions. Because I had no information that benefited town. Like aside from being transparent, what's the point to letting the mafia team know what I have? Are you suggesting that I should have told everyone that I tracked djo to jarjar during the night two resolution period when everyone else was claiming? And why on earth would I be the recruiter target on N1? rayn just voted himself to get me lynched, that was how sure he was. Based on town sentiment, I was probably the player most likely to get lynched d2. Out of all the obvious townies, I was the choice? | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On April 07 2014 11:55 Vivax wrote: Town sentiment?Hopeless sentiment. Hopeless asked for a 1 on 1, next day he threw it in the trash. That's cause then you became a part of his team. I didn't see anyone else suggesting you should be lynched just cause rayn asked for you to be lynched after him. You delayed the roleclaim so you could wait for everyone else to claim their actions and paint the course of events that benefit you the most, knowing what the blues did at night. You had a good excuse, having the best role in the game. Besides, if you really were town you wouldn't have claimed you are also a vet, that's retarded. No need to call me names. Out of all the players in the game, you are honestly saying that I looked like the most obvious townie after d1? | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On April 07 2014 12:04 Vivax wrote: You thought you looked scummy after lynching rayn? Apologies for calling what you did retarded. But it's bad and doesn't make much sense from town perspective, very much from scum perspective. No, but I most certainly think others did. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
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kitaman27
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I wonder if Vivax makes sense as a conversion. That would completely invalidate the kush interaction if he was town at the time. | ||
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kitaman27
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/bobtgoldfish/Macros/motivator5414751.jpg) | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
Congrats Amiko. Your scum game is truly one to be reckoned with. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
1) On April 02 2014 01:50 kushm4sta wrote: is kita a guy who hates playing scum? Kush asks this in the thread before converting me. 2) I actually had godfather protection so we were hoping that the check would go to anyone but kush. 3) Nuking me during d2, rather than n2 would have ended the game. 4) If Vivax did not jail austin n2, austin would have roleblocked my conversion attempt on him | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On April 10 2014 09:27 Vivax wrote: Well without shrink scum becomes theoretically unbeatable only with lynches just from D2 on. You lynch one, they convert one. That's why their abilities are factional under a certain number of something I think. So roleblocks work when they become too many. But idk, one conversion a day seems a bit too strong to me, and starting with only one scum is weak for them. That poor D1 kush lol Well it wasn't technically 1 conversion a day, it was 3 conversions by day 5 with the way it was staggered. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On April 10 2014 09:33 Hopeless1der wrote: the setup looks super snowbally, but scum gets first crack at it imo. And I dont particularly like that the shrink has to sacrifice himself, effectively giving scum +1KP in exchange for a convert. Well the conversion and shot can't be factional on night two so the mafia team has to deal with up to three offensive roleblocks and 3 protective roles just to get their shot through. On top of that, they need to ensure they don't get caught by the cop, tracker, watcher, inventor, vig, or nuker. It's a minor miracle that I survived until night three by avoiding the jarjar check, d3 nuke, and conversion roleblock. If I were to make a few small tweaks to the setup, I would remove kush's immortality at the beginning of the game. Essentially, that's a waste of time for everyone since it's literally impossible to pull off a scum lynch. Essentially I went after rayn because I had a town read on nearly the entire game so he was one of the few players left. Instead, I think that kush should have had the ability to immediately convert a player in the event that he was lynched. I would also probably replace the role cop with a roleblocker to deal with mass claims a bit better and maybe remove the inventor. I thought hope's role was actually pretty cool and I liked the mechanic dealing with becoming immune to roles after one use. Holding off on amiko's nuke until d3 was a nice touch. Overall, real cool setup considering how difficult it must have been to pull off. | ||
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