EPT
I guess it's easier to just ask: Did somebody use it?
[M][T] Foundation Mafia - Page 151
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
I guess it's easier to just ask: Did somebody use it? | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
Ok, write up time First, I must say thanks to marv and axlegreaser. Axlegreaser gave some insightful comments several months ago when I had just started working on the game. Corazon was also around for part of that process. Marv was invaluable, he and I had a 5ish hour last minute brainstorming session where he helped fine tune the setup, specifically the mule/seldon roles. And of course both of them helped with vote counts and were fun to hang out with during the game in the host qt. Thanks to the people in the obs qt who followed along and gave reads! Individual Comments + Show Spoiler [players] + 1) VisceraEyes I don't remember too much about your play other than this post. You were one of the townies who perfectly understood why killing was mafia on D1, and you were right about rob's post on killing being the best in the thread. If it was the best in the thread you should have pushed it more! 2) Killing I think you probably have a good idea of what you should have done better. I have to imagine that playing your first forum game as mafia is verrrry difficult. You bought yourself a lot of time when you decided to start dumbtelling but you should have followed it up with content. In most games I think you would have been lynched D1. That last minute vote swap was a fluke, I think most of town thought you were mafia by the end. 3) Alakaslam Uh, i enjoyed your posts? And I enjoyed watching you enjoy playing. I don't remember your reads too much, I do remember that near the end you did a good job of getting people talking. haste ftw 4) Palmar I'd like to hear why you decided to change to VE at the last second, that was so sad to watch. In the host qt we talked about how you *knew* rayn was scum, but for some reason you just couldn't convince yourself to follow through on that read. Your point about townies proving themselves to be town is a good one and it's something you were able to do well during that last cycle. The momentum was definitely heading towards a Palmar lynch and you forced rayn to have to step up and force his weird GGtemp lynch, which regardless of the lynch result, was probably something that would have eventually outed rayn. 5) boonetown Yeah, forum mafia different than video mafia. People usually aren't so BM so don't take this game as an exampel of what normal games are like. I don't have too much to say other than that all the things you spoke about having difficulties with can only be fixed by playing more games. 6) Dandel Ion Man, robik so obv town. Soooooo so obv town. Be chill! What you were doing was both boneheaded and mean spirited. Good job on swinging the grack lynch on D3. Yamato's vote started it, but it took a townie to step up and say "HEY GUYS SHEEP THIS." 7) raynpelikoneet I was so scared that you wouldn't put effort into the game which would cause it to be sooo town favored, but you came through better than most scum players would. Anyways, we've already discussed the balance stuff so I won't repeat myself. 8) Grackaroni I know you can play scum better than that! You seemed a bit demotivated, maybe it had something to do with not being able to talk to rayn? There's not much to say, you probably know you should have done more. Even if you forgot about rayn's extra vote... you still should have been voting for GGTeMpLar at the end. That's was a townie would probably do even if they were town reading GGTeMpLaR. Had you voted for him, rayn's vote would have swung the lynch and then he could have initiated all his anti-seldon wifom plans going forwards. That was about as silly as palmar/dandel vote switching off killing. 9) IAmRobik Mannnnn you need to chill out. Your reads were so good for most of the game! But even though you were obviously town, nobody was going to take you seriously because your reputation was 'that guy who's sitting in the corner foaming at the mouth." 10) austinmcc I wiiiish you had been in the game longer because you seemed so eager to speculate about the setup, and so eager to make use of your secret qt. You knew killing was mafia, I don't remember much about your reads other than that. Also, don't chase the pointless task laser. 11) justanothertownie Everyone thought you were town all game long so you had to have been doing something right. I felt you became a bit detatched as the game went on. I don't really remember anything about your reads... maybe that's a sign you should have been more vocal about your lynch candidates? I do remember that you were very reasonable and were very good for prompting rational discussion. 12) Oatsmaster Good game! There's not much you could have done better except for perhaps pushing your lynches. Everyone thought you were town, your reads were usually correct, and you were probably nightkilled because of those things. 13) GGTeMpLaR I don't have any adivce on how to argue with rayn because I always end up interacting with him in an anti town way no matter his alignment. Maybe follow the same advice I gave robik, be a bit less BM? Like Palmar, you also knew rayn was scum but were never able to fully convince yourself or the thread of it. 14) yamato yamato OP Setup It's a shame I can't run the setup again! I'm a little bummed out because I think I came extremely close to having an amazing setup, but there were a few things I should have done differently that I couldn't really have predicted. It is like rayn said, themed games are hard because it's impossible to balance something based on how it looks on paper. I do think that considering how strange the roles were, we did a pretty good job. There are lots of things I wanted to be more complicated, or more crazy, but I simply wasn't able to figure out how to implement all my ideas while being able to tell myself that everything would be balanced. For example I wanted to run an all VT setup... but give either hari, the 2nd Foundation qt, or both some ways to give town blue abilities. I wanted scum to have some kind of interaction with the qts. I wanted to give the Mule some way of permanently neutralizing Seldon. I wanted to give Seldon lots of rewards for "accurately predicting (as per the flavor)" the events of the game. (note.. there were some hidden mechanics regarding the accuracy of his votes that never played out) In the end I decided that since I'm already using untested ideas, I'd better use as few of them as possible. I enjoyed watching town decode that message and speculate on the Seldon role. I wish the game had played out longer so that something similar to the following would have happaned.. you use telepathy for the D3 (seldon's 2nd chance to post) post, and in that post you say "guys! that D2 post wasn't me! i'm town, so there must be some way for mafia to interfere what i'm doing!" then real seldon shows up D4 and goes "uh guys the D3 seldon is the real liar! trust me, not him! btw here is my town cop check on alakaslam" then tduring D4 the mule uses his extra vote on alakaslam. then the real seldon must immediately use HIS vote on not-slam so from town's perspective, seldon has been essentially fighting and aruging with himself. if you are a townie who is naturally suspicious of everyone and everything, are you ever going to trust this guy as implicitly as everyone trusted yamato? What can we learn? 1) It's important for townies to be seen as town. If you're going to do one thing, make it be that. The same could probably be said for scum players. 2) Ease up on the BM! There's a limit to how much BM you can spew and once you cross that limit you will start demotivating your fellow townies. So be nice! 3) Scum need to be active, duh. See point #1 I don't there's much more than that, because the scum were scum for obvious reasons and the town were town for obvious reasons. The mechanics were strange but they weren't so strange that you couldn't have decided to ignore them and focus solely on scumhunting. For the most part this was a fun game to watch and host. I liked writing the flavor but as always, I run out of ideas and/or realize that I never had an endgame in mind to begin with so the flavor either dies out or becomes silly. This was definitely a better hosting experience than other games I've done, so thanks to players and cohosts for that. I think the next game I run will be GoT Mafia II: subtitle tbd. It's not going to be anything like the first game and I haven't figured out the setup yet but I know what direction I want to take it. I want to keep the houses and maybe the lords, but I don't want to use representative voting again, and I don't want to give players so many elections because it didn't end up being as fun as I thought it would. I'm currently thinking about making it a pyp type of game, where players pick their own houses before the game, and each house has it's own....something (tbd). Let me know if you want to help with this! | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On March 13 2014 03:16 gonzaw wrote: Also, apparently nobody used the spreadsheet I guess it's easier to just ask: Did somebody use it? There was usually at most 1 other viewer during D1/D2, but the last half of D3 consistently had around 4-5 viewers. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Bill Murray? Bob Marley? Baby Murder? Boob Massager? | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
On March 13 2014 03:20 thrawn2112 wrote: 4) Palmar I'd like to hear why you decided to change to VE at the last second, that was so sad to watch. In the host qt we talked about how you *knew* rayn was scum, but for some reason you just couldn't convince yourself to follow through on that read. Your point about townies proving themselves to be town is a good one and it's something you were able to do well during that last cycle. The momentum was definitely heading towards a Palmar lynch and you forced rayn to have to step up and force his weird GGtemp lynch, which regardless of the lynch result, was probably something that would have eventually outed rayn. Said it multiple times. My logic is simply "Good townies don't get lynched day 1. VE is very close to getting lynched. VE is a good townie, thus VE must be scum". It's lazy/busy-people-paranoia, not much more to it. I have gotten lynched for the same on day 1 when I don't have time to play. (L, death note). Add in the fact that I don't know Killing so maybe his weird and bad play (from a town perspective) was the result of him not knowing what to do. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
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IAmRobik
United States5878 Posts
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On March 13 2014 03:53 IAmRobik wrote: what are spreadsheets for? It has all the info about the game condensed in a single place. You might ask "Isn't it the same as the OP?". In a sense it is. However, for the host it is easier and "forced" in a way to update the spreadsheet than the OP. You see lots of games where the OP is never updated. Mostly because why would the host update it? Nobody would see it, it takes lots of work In the spreadsheet, since the players would use it for other stuff as well (votecount, etc), it has easier access, so players would actually see it more often (...ideally  ). Also, the host uses a UI that does most of the work for him, so he doesn't have to painstakingly edit the OP, and just clicks a couple of buttons instead.In terms of the player, well, you do have this info more "condensed" (you skip the rules, and that stuff so you get the important info the player would want to quickly skim). Like I said before, you also have this info updated, since the spreadsheet basically forces itself to be updated. Other stuff the OP doesn't have, is information about each phase and cycle. For instance, how the votes of a particular cycle ended up. On the same phase you are in, if it's the day cycle, you get an automatic votecount you can check at any time. You don't have to wait for the host to post a votecount in the thread, or go back X pages to see the last votecount, you just check it there. Yes, the votecount is only updated when the host/cohosts are active to update it, but this happens with votecounts in the thread as well (ideally, if hosts can update the votecount in the thread, they can update it in the spreadsheet as well). Ideally, in the future (hopefully near), more stuff will be added to facilitate this whole process. You also have the "time remaining before deadline" thing, so you always know how much time is left before the lynch or stuff like that (as well as having the deadline there too). And well....that's it basically. Oh: It also has pretty colors :3 That's the most important feature! Why bother checking stuff in the old boring TL "blue fart" style, when you can check it with vibrant colors and revolutionary designs? :O | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
But yeah, ideally it would be some sort of "game database" too. Later you can just check back on the spreadsheet to check a past game instead of searching for the game via TL search, checking all day/night posts (which at times is hard to do, since cohosts post the day post at times, so you can't just filter the host to see them all), etc. Maybe in a future, we can have (somehow) all of these tidied up in a single Google Drive account, where everybody can access them (somehow), so you just check them there. Or maybe stored somewhere else (again...somehow), for easier access. Since all spreadsheets are the same, stuff like kita's database can be automatically updated just by scrapping each spreadsheet once a game is over, instead of poor kita inputing all info by himself every single time. For that to happen, it would need to have ALL information though, like night actions, etc.That's kind of hard (if not impossible) to do in a single spreadsheet, but if more than 1 spreadsheet is used it can work. But yeah....all of it is "ideal". Would kind of take lot of time to do, if people are interested of course. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
I'll think about it a bit. Edit: The ideal way to do it I think would be to pull from the TL Mafia Database. Then build a windows app that could browse by player or game, and get instant access to the thread or spreadsheet or filter, whatever is appropriate. The hard part would just be designing the UI I think. | ||
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Alakaslam
United States17336 Posts
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Alakaslam
United States17336 Posts
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On March 13 2014 13:47 Alakaslam wrote: I wanna spreadsheet works on my phone I'll check that phone stuff. Kind of surprised it doesn't work. It's just a google spreadsheet after all, don't those work on phones? | ||
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Alakaslam
United States17336 Posts
On March 13 2014 14:13 gonzaw wrote: I'll check that phone stuff. Kind of surprised it doesn't work. It's just a google spreadsheet after all, don't those work on phones? It does I clarify I cannot see to read small stuff or else I gotta zoom in a lot, and tabs are hard to click That is the case here too but hey In other words there is nothing you can do to satisfy me except convince me to use iPad as my phone Because on pc I am already satisfied, stuph is bamcis | ||
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