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[M][T] Foundation Mafia - Page 150

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
March 12 2014 15:30 GMT
#2981
On March 13 2014 00:29 Koshi wrote:
rayn is always mafia when it is the most fucked up mafia setup.

It is known.

I gave him a scumread for it in Suspicion mafia but the set up was not crazy enough. Evul scummers lying and stuff.

Well i was town in the Mini PYP so not always.
table for two on a tv tray
thrawn2112
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6918 Posts
March 12 2014 15:35 GMT
#2982
and the reason you couldn't talk to your team was because you were a role checking role blocking extra voting seldon-interferring incorrectly flipping OP role. also because it is interesting lol

and yeah, like marv said it would probably have been a good idea to let you comminucate with them in a limited fashion, like give you 3 messages per game or something to be posted in the scum qt
"People think they know all these things about other people, and if you ask them why they think they know that, it'd be hard for them to be convincing." ES
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
March 12 2014 15:40 GMT
#2983
I think role-cop was really useless ability, that's what i figured out really quick.
table for two on a tv tray
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
March 12 2014 15:43 GMT
#2984
wtf

how long have post times been in local time
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
March 12 2014 15:44 GMT
#2985
rofl i just noticed that too.
table for two on a tv tray
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
March 12 2014 15:45 GMT
#2986
wat?
I had a good night of sleep.
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
March 12 2014 15:45 GMT
#2987
Also. Rayn almost has exact same post number as me.
I had a good night of sleep.
Dandel Ion
Profile Joined November 2010
Austria17960 Posts
March 12 2014 15:45 GMT
#2988
It's new.

On March 13 2014 00:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I think role-cop was really useless ability, that's what i figured out really quick.

It is if the only PR in the game claims on day1, yes.
A backwards poet writes inverse.
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
March 12 2014 15:47 GMT
#2989
On March 13 2014 00:45 Koshi wrote:
Also. Rayn almost has exact same post number as me.

We must post in turns in Titanic game.
table for two on a tv tray
thrawn2112
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6918 Posts
March 12 2014 15:48 GMT
#2990
here's another thing, it's really hard to balance out all these weird ass roles because you have no idea how the players are going to use them

-2nd foundation... I never would have thought that somebody who gets to be in a secret qt would have claimed the qt on d1. that was actually meant to be a buff to the mule. so no, the 2nd foundation wasn't random, i'd always planned on throwing the mule in there with 2 random townies, and since i knew i was going to pick a good scum player as mule I figured it'd be a buff for the mule. boonetown inadvertantly spoiled your advantage there

-seldon messages and town's reaction to seldon... I didn't expect that yamato's first post would be so... boring? i guess in hindsight what he did was probably correct play because it gave scum as little info as possible. i kinda expected him to claim "yamato" or something. I NEVER thought that town would be so trusting of seldon as they were. a few people grew paranoid when yamato voted grack, and who knows how more paranoid they would have been if the mule used telepathy. i think yamato's reads were just so good that it was very difficult for town not to trust him
"People think they know all these things about other people, and if you ask them why they think they know that, it'd be hard for them to be convincing." ES
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
March 12 2014 15:49 GMT
#2991
On March 13 2014 00:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2014 00:45 Koshi wrote:
Also. Rayn almost has exact same post number as me.

We must post in turns in Titanic game.

if it ever starts.
I had a good night of sleep.
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-12 15:55:36
March 12 2014 15:52 GMT
#2992
On March 13 2014 00:48 thrawn2112 wrote:
here's another thing, it's really hard to balance out all these weird ass roles because you have no idea how the players are going to use them

-2nd foundation... I never would have thought that somebody who gets to be in a secret qt would have claimed the qt on d1. that was actually meant to be a buff to the mule. so no, the 2nd foundation wasn't random, i'd always planned on throwing the mule in there with 2 random townies, and since i knew i was going to pick a good scum player as mule I figured it'd be a buff for the mule. boonetown inadvertantly spoiled your advantage there

-seldon messages and town's reaction to seldon... I didn't expect that yamato's first post would be so... boring? i guess in hindsight what he did was probably correct play because it gave scum as little info as possible. i kinda expected him to claim "yamato" or something. I NEVER thought that town would be so trusting of seldon as they were. a few people grew paranoid when yamato voted grack, and who knows how more paranoid they would have been if the mule used telepathy. i think yamato's reads were just so good that it was very difficult for town not to trust him

That's one of my points.
You basically can't balance the game based on it "looks good on paper".

Basically the only way for scum to play that game was lynch townies every day. That was the ONLY way i could actually discredit Sheldon:
N1) find out what's thet guy up to
N2) make people know there is something that fucks up with the power
N3) drop a really hugeass WIFOM bomb
*losing one mafia is acceptable at this point. you can still win*
N4) make Sheldon work for you because of the WIFOM
D4-D5) LYLO, use the extra vote and ggnore.

If you lose 2 mafia the game becomes unwinnable because you can't deal with the Sheldon role (especially as i didn't know i could use the extra vote again).

One of the problems was that i could not tell the game plan to my team.
table for two on a tv tray
thrawn2112
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6918 Posts
March 12 2014 16:06 GMT
#2993
i don't know.

i think i probably underestimated what you could have assumed about your role given the information you had about seldon (minimal, but more than every player)

i think you are probably underestimating how much damage your seldon abilities could have caused town given the information town had about seldon (none)

like imagine you are a townie. they didn;t know anything about seldon! alakaslam even decided it was so crazy it most have been host wifom. this seldon guy (apparently) has multiple votes even though he claims to only have 1, he leaves you messages, one of them missing letters, some of the messages don't agree with each other and seldon might even have to discredit himself by saying "i totally didn't write that last message and that vote wasn't me"

what about this scenario:

you use telepathy for the D3 (seldon's 2nd chance to post) post, and in that post you say "guys! that D2 post wasn't me! i'm town, so there must be some way for mafia to interfere what i'm doing!"

then real seldon shows up D4 and goes "uh guys the D3 seldon is the real liar! trust me, not him! btw here is my town cop check on alakaslam"

then tduring D4 the mule uses his extra vote on alakaslam. then the real seldon must immediately use HIS vote on not-slam

so from town's perspective, seldon has been essentially fighting and aruging with himself. if you are a townie who is naturally suspicious of everyone and everything, are you ever going to trust this guy as implicitly as everyone trusted yamato?
"People think they know all these things about other people, and if you ask them why they think they know that, it'd be hard for them to be convincing." ES
Balla24
Profile Joined December 2011
2322 Posts
March 12 2014 16:07 GMT
#2994
omg i wish this had gone longer that shit sounds so funny
thrawn2112
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6918 Posts
March 12 2014 16:08 GMT
#2995
On March 13 2014 01:07 Balla24 wrote:
omg i wish this had gone longer that shit sounds so funny


lol the above is sorta what i was hoping would happen, and it's what i was talking about early on in the obs qt
"People think they know all these things about other people, and if you ask them why they think they know that, it'd be hard for them to be convincing." ES
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
March 12 2014 16:13 GMT
#2996
On March 13 2014 01:06 thrawn2112 wrote:
i don't know.

i think i probably underestimated what you could have assumed about your role given the information you had about seldon (minimal, but more than every player)

i think you are probably underestimating how much damage your seldon abilities could have caused town given the information town had about seldon (none)

like imagine you are a townie. they didn;t know anything about seldon! alakaslam even decided it was so crazy it most have been host wifom. this seldon guy (apparently) has multiple votes even though he claims to only have 1, he leaves you messages, one of them missing letters, some of the messages don't agree with each other and seldon might even have to discredit himself by saying "i totally didn't write that last message and that vote wasn't me"

what about this scenario:

you use telepathy for the D3 (seldon's 2nd chance to post) post, and in that post you say "guys! that D2 post wasn't me! i'm town, so there must be some way for mafia to interfere what i'm doing!"

then real seldon shows up D4 and goes "uh guys the D3 seldon is the real liar! trust me, not him! btw here is my town cop check on alakaslam"

then tduring D4 the mule uses his extra vote on alakaslam. then the real seldon must immediately use HIS vote on not-slam

so from town's perspective, seldon has been essentially fighting and aruging with himself. if you are a townie who is naturally suspicious of everyone and everything, are you ever going to trust this guy as implicitly as everyone trusted yamato?

That's what i was trying to do onwards into the game!

I was going to claim a red check on myself from N2 so it doesn't even matter if town believes the Sheldon or not but the check is WIFOM and the messages can't be trusted and hopefully i gain so much town credit i can save Grackaroni until eternity.

If i knew the Sheldon role was not a player in the game i would have started earlier. I wanted them to claim and work for scum instead of the town. I still think it's unreasonable to assume there is a guy in the game who is really not there. Ugh.. that kinda fucked over me because i just couldn't assume so.

But yeah thrawn, i got the idea, i just approached it a bit differently because i thought the Sheldon guy was in the game and i wanted to figure out who he is (by letting him give a non-fake N1 message as they can't possibly claim their check).
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-12 16:16:37
March 12 2014 16:16 GMT
#2997
Like this:
"My post was fucked with on D3. My vote was fucked with on D3. There is something wrong. I checked rayn N2 he is mafia. I checked rayn N2 he is mafia. I checked rayn N2 he is mafia. I checked rayn N2 he is mafia. I checked rayn N2 he is mafia. I checked rayn N2 he is mafia."

wat to do, who to trust?
table for two on a tv tray
thrawn2112
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6918 Posts
March 12 2014 16:23 GMT
#2998
oh another things, the jamming ability...

I think it actually ended up being pro-seldon instead of anti-seldon as intended. People spent so much time reading the message trying to decode it that yamato's will to lynch grack probably bled into the thread in a way it woudn't have if town hadn't of had to work for the message.
"People think they know all these things about other people, and if you ask them why they think they know that, it'd be hard for them to be convincing." ES
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
March 12 2014 16:25 GMT
#2999
On March 13 2014 01:23 thrawn2112 wrote:
oh another things, the jamming ability...

I think it actually ended up being pro-seldon instead of anti-seldon as intended. People spent so much time reading the message trying to decode it that yamato's will to lynch grack probably bled into the thread in a way it woudn't have if town hadn't of had to work for the message.

Yeah that's actually true.
But honestly for me it did not matter. It was not the message's fault Grack got lynched, it was his own fault. The only thing i wanted to achieve with jamming the message was to tell "there is something that can fuck with you".
table for two on a tv tray
gonzaw
Profile Joined December 2011
Uruguay4911 Posts
March 12 2014 18:15 GMT
#3000
The jamming ability should be inherent to the Seldon role!

I mean, not only it would be fun to everybody trying to piece it together (even scum can join the fun and fake contribution by solving the puzzle!), but it makes it so the Seldon guy has to create messages that can be decoded faster, but without knowing how his message will end up. For instance, it's not the same for his message to be "G_ _ _ K / _ _ / M _ _ _ _" than for it to be "_ R _ _ _ / _ S / _ A _ _ _" (where one is more decipherable than the other).

So, what would yamato do?
Write short messages with the least amount of info? Town would waste less time deciphering his post. But then he posts no info, and no message and can't convince town to trust him
Write long meaningful messages with lots of info? Then he gambles town wasting lots of time figuring it out, not even knowing if they would be able to do so. But he would know town would be able to decipher more chunks of text than if the message was short, thus he knows he would give town more info, and could convince them better to follow him.

That would be more interesting. Seldon would have to actually think what he posts, instead of just dumping all his thoughts into the posts every night.
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