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/in
Been a while, and I've been meaning to try a larger game again. I can't promise my customary of activity (I'll be periodically travelling for the next few weeks), but it should be enough to read/play the game.
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Two things:
@ Holyflare
Why are you playing as if you have a stick up your butt?
@ Everyone
Let's kill Valenius:
+ Show Spoiler +On May 21 2014 06:22 Valenius wrote:
9 player day 1's normally confuse me. gg. On May 21 2014 06:24 Valenius wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 06:22 Koshi wrote:On May 21 2014 06:22 Valenius wrote:
9 player day 1's normally confuse me. gg. Sheep me sheeping marv. ezgame ezlife. i thought you were hosting. wtf. ##vote: Koshi On May 21 2014 06:29 Valenius wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 06:28 Koshi wrote:On May 21 2014 06:27 Koshi wrote:On May 21 2014 06:24 Valenius wrote:On May 21 2014 06:22 Koshi wrote:On May 21 2014 06:22 Valenius wrote:
9 player day 1's normally confuse me. gg. Sheep me sheeping marv. ezgame ezlife. i thought you were hosting. wtf. ##vote: Koshi Even though I am a divine being in this game. I ascended and joined the plebs. I don't have anything against plebs though, they are simple but amusing beings. I allow the smartest of them to call me Koshi. You can call me Master. I might have meant descended. It is just hard for me to grasp going downwards. It was such a nice post, I wasn't going to correct it for you. On May 21 2014 06:50 Valenius wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 06:49 Yell0w wrote:
So about this whole RNG thing, aren't scum players more likely to vote for OdinofPergo if he isn't in their faction since they don't even need a reason to vote him? They can just claim they're doing it for RNG and get a lynch on someone who isn't aligned with them?
Wouldn't a better way be to each claim we are RNG voting, then use the RNG on the post in which we claimed it and then vote for whomever our own post said? So that there is no way to know if you're going to lynch someone of your own faction or not so it's riskier for scum to go by RNG? Maybe I'm completely wrong here. I like that, I haven't thought it through - But I like it. RNG V2 On May 21 2014 06:52 Valenius wrote:
Actually, won't it cause the same theoretical situation, just with votes more spread? On May 21 2014 07:44 Valenius wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 21 2014 07:42 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 06:17 27ninjabunnies wrote:
I'd lynch HF in a heartbeat if he aligned with mafia. Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 06:23 27ninjabunnies wrote:
Oh I'd lynch tamburini in a heartbeat regardless of his alignment. Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 07:28 WaveofShadow wrote:
Sorry HF you've broken my heart too many times. ![[image loading]](http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120309173425/goldensun/images/thumb/b/ba/GSHeart.jpg/240px-GSHeart.jpg) Chalis (ハート Heart) is an antagonist in Golden Sun: Dark Dawn. Together with Blados, she is one of the commanders of a secretive military nation named Tuaparang. All three are bad guys taunting us in the thread. I rest my case. LOL ##unvoted koshi btw On May 21 2014 07:48 Valenius wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 07:47 Holyflare wrote:On May 21 2014 07:45 Steveling wrote:On May 21 2014 07:43 Holyflare wrote:On May 21 2014 07:36 marvellosity wrote:Xatalos, I really have no idea, nor do I care, because I don't particularly strive to be consistent from game to game. Honestly the fact that you're beating away at this makes you look kinda better though, so maybe I'll unvote you if I'm feeling nice On May 21 2014 07:32 Holyflare wrote:
yes please do
##unvote
##vote steveling
You do realise, though, that Steve's semi-ridiculous behaviour makes it less likely he's mafia though, yes? (or traditional mafia. I'm just gonna say town for town and mafia for all the other factions until something tells me otherwise) On May 21 2014 07:20 Holyflare wrote:
if you're gonna play like last game i will actually policy lynch you and i honestly don't care despite me being scum in the game he was talking about we literally only won because he was doing what he was doing as town and was an easy mislynch so i'm just going to get rid of him until he learns Yes you literally only won because of my bad play as town right? Not because NO ONE, LITERALLY NO ONE VOTED FOR A SCUM IN ALL 3 DAYS. Oh wait, except me. ^^^ case in point anyway bh if you take out newbie games towns recently have a 40%+ chance of finding mafia day 1 by lynching and so it's obv far better not to rng If you add in newbie games, we just lynch town/any claimed power roles. ezpz
6 posts, all of them a mixture of "+1'ing" other people and irrelevant comments. His filter reads a lot like someone who's artificially trying to insert himself in discussion.
##Vote: Valenius
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Can we stop troll voting and talk about someone that's actually scummy?
On May 21 2014 07:54 Hapahauli wrote:... @ EveryoneLet's kill Valenius: + Show Spoiler +On May 21 2014 06:22 Valenius wrote:
9 player day 1's normally confuse me. gg. On May 21 2014 06:24 Valenius wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 06:22 Koshi wrote:On May 21 2014 06:22 Valenius wrote:
9 player day 1's normally confuse me. gg. Sheep me sheeping marv. ezgame ezlife. i thought you were hosting. wtf. ##vote: Koshi On May 21 2014 06:29 Valenius wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 06:28 Koshi wrote:On May 21 2014 06:27 Koshi wrote:On May 21 2014 06:24 Valenius wrote:On May 21 2014 06:22 Koshi wrote:On May 21 2014 06:22 Valenius wrote:
9 player day 1's normally confuse me. gg. Sheep me sheeping marv. ezgame ezlife. i thought you were hosting. wtf. ##vote: Koshi Even though I am a divine being in this game. I ascended and joined the plebs. I don't have anything against plebs though, they are simple but amusing beings. I allow the smartest of them to call me Koshi. You can call me Master. I might have meant descended. It is just hard for me to grasp going downwards. It was such a nice post, I wasn't going to correct it for you. On May 21 2014 06:50 Valenius wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 06:49 Yell0w wrote:
So about this whole RNG thing, aren't scum players more likely to vote for OdinofPergo if he isn't in their faction since they don't even need a reason to vote him? They can just claim they're doing it for RNG and get a lynch on someone who isn't aligned with them?
Wouldn't a better way be to each claim we are RNG voting, then use the RNG on the post in which we claimed it and then vote for whomever our own post said? So that there is no way to know if you're going to lynch someone of your own faction or not so it's riskier for scum to go by RNG? Maybe I'm completely wrong here. I like that, I haven't thought it through - But I like it. RNG V2 On May 21 2014 06:52 Valenius wrote:
Actually, won't it cause the same theoretical situation, just with votes more spread? On May 21 2014 07:44 Valenius wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 21 2014 07:42 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 06:17 27ninjabunnies wrote:
I'd lynch HF in a heartbeat if he aligned with mafia. Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 06:23 27ninjabunnies wrote:
Oh I'd lynch tamburini in a heartbeat regardless of his alignment. Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 07:28 WaveofShadow wrote:
Sorry HF you've broken my heart too many times. Chalis (ハート Heart) is an antagonist in Golden Sun: Dark Dawn. Together with Blados, she is one of the commanders of a secretive military nation named Tuaparang. All three are bad guys taunting us in the thread. I rest my case. LOL ##unvoted koshi btw On May 21 2014 07:48 Valenius wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 07:47 Holyflare wrote:On May 21 2014 07:45 Steveling wrote:On May 21 2014 07:43 Holyflare wrote:On May 21 2014 07:36 marvellosity wrote:Xatalos, I really have no idea, nor do I care, because I don't particularly strive to be consistent from game to game. Honestly the fact that you're beating away at this makes you look kinda better though, so maybe I'll unvote you if I'm feeling nice On May 21 2014 07:32 Holyflare wrote:
yes please do
##unvote
##vote steveling
You do realise, though, that Steve's semi-ridiculous behaviour makes it less likely he's mafia though, yes? (or traditional mafia. I'm just gonna say town for town and mafia for all the other factions until something tells me otherwise) On May 21 2014 07:20 Holyflare wrote:
if you're gonna play like last game i will actually policy lynch you and i honestly don't care despite me being scum in the game he was talking about we literally only won because he was doing what he was doing as town and was an easy mislynch so i'm just going to get rid of him until he learns Yes you literally only won because of my bad play as town right? Not because NO ONE, LITERALLY NO ONE VOTED FOR A SCUM IN ALL 3 DAYS. Oh wait, except me. ^^^ case in point anyway bh if you take out newbie games towns recently have a 40%+ chance of finding mafia day 1 by lynching and so it's obv far better not to rng If you add in newbie games, we just lynch town/any claimed power roles. ezpz 6 posts, all of them a mixture of "+1'ing" other people and irrelevant comments. His filter reads a lot like someone who's artificially trying to insert himself in discussion. ##Vote: Valenius
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On May 21 2014 08:10 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 08:06 Hapahauli wrote:Can we stop troll voting and talk about someone that's actually scummy? On May 21 2014 07:54 Hapahauli wrote:... @ EveryoneLet's kill Valenius: + Show Spoiler +On May 21 2014 06:22 Valenius wrote:
9 player day 1's normally confuse me. gg. On May 21 2014 06:24 Valenius wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 06:22 Koshi wrote:On May 21 2014 06:22 Valenius wrote:
9 player day 1's normally confuse me. gg. Sheep me sheeping marv. ezgame ezlife. i thought you were hosting. wtf. ##vote: Koshi On May 21 2014 06:29 Valenius wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 06:28 Koshi wrote:On May 21 2014 06:27 Koshi wrote:On May 21 2014 06:24 Valenius wrote:On May 21 2014 06:22 Koshi wrote:On May 21 2014 06:22 Valenius wrote:
9 player day 1's normally confuse me. gg. Sheep me sheeping marv. ezgame ezlife. i thought you were hosting. wtf. ##vote: Koshi Even though I am a divine being in this game. I ascended and joined the plebs. I don't have anything against plebs though, they are simple but amusing beings. I allow the smartest of them to call me Koshi. You can call me Master. I might have meant descended. It is just hard for me to grasp going downwards. It was such a nice post, I wasn't going to correct it for you. On May 21 2014 06:50 Valenius wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 06:49 Yell0w wrote:
So about this whole RNG thing, aren't scum players more likely to vote for OdinofPergo if he isn't in their faction since they don't even need a reason to vote him? They can just claim they're doing it for RNG and get a lynch on someone who isn't aligned with them?
Wouldn't a better way be to each claim we are RNG voting, then use the RNG on the post in which we claimed it and then vote for whomever our own post said? So that there is no way to know if you're going to lynch someone of your own faction or not so it's riskier for scum to go by RNG? Maybe I'm completely wrong here. I like that, I haven't thought it through - But I like it. RNG V2 On May 21 2014 06:52 Valenius wrote:
Actually, won't it cause the same theoretical situation, just with votes more spread? On May 21 2014 07:44 Valenius wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 21 2014 07:42 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 06:17 27ninjabunnies wrote:
I'd lynch HF in a heartbeat if he aligned with mafia. Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 06:23 27ninjabunnies wrote:
Oh I'd lynch tamburini in a heartbeat regardless of his alignment. Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 07:28 WaveofShadow wrote:
Sorry HF you've broken my heart too many times. Chalis (ハート Heart) is an antagonist in Golden Sun: Dark Dawn. Together with Blados, she is one of the commanders of a secretive military nation named Tuaparang. All three are bad guys taunting us in the thread. I rest my case. LOL ##unvoted koshi btw On May 21 2014 07:48 Valenius wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 07:47 Holyflare wrote:On May 21 2014 07:45 Steveling wrote:On May 21 2014 07:43 Holyflare wrote:On May 21 2014 07:36 marvellosity wrote:Xatalos, I really have no idea, nor do I care, because I don't particularly strive to be consistent from game to game. Honestly the fact that you're beating away at this makes you look kinda better though, so maybe I'll unvote you if I'm feeling nice On May 21 2014 07:32 Holyflare wrote:
yes please do
##unvote
##vote steveling
You do realise, though, that Steve's semi-ridiculous behaviour makes it less likely he's mafia though, yes? (or traditional mafia. I'm just gonna say town for town and mafia for all the other factions until something tells me otherwise) On May 21 2014 07:20 Holyflare wrote:
if you're gonna play like last game i will actually policy lynch you and i honestly don't care despite me being scum in the game he was talking about we literally only won because he was doing what he was doing as town and was an easy mislynch so i'm just going to get rid of him until he learns Yes you literally only won because of my bad play as town right? Not because NO ONE, LITERALLY NO ONE VOTED FOR A SCUM IN ALL 3 DAYS. Oh wait, except me. ^^^ case in point anyway bh if you take out newbie games towns recently have a 40%+ chance of finding mafia day 1 by lynching and so it's obv far better not to rng If you add in newbie games, we just lynch town/any claimed power roles. ezpz 6 posts, all of them a mixture of "+1'ing" other people and irrelevant comments. His filter reads a lot like someone who's artificially trying to insert himself in discussion. ##Vote: Valenius i think he's town for this post: Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 07:50 Valenius wrote:On May 21 2014 07:48 Blazinghand wrote:On May 21 2014 07:45 jampidampi wrote:On May 21 2014 07:33 Blazinghand wrote:On May 21 2014 06:40 jampidampi wrote:On May 21 2014 06:32 Blazinghand wrote:
Look, I know you guys all hate RNG lynch but with 4 factions there's gonna be way more scum than usual, right? This means RNG has a much higher chance than usual of hitting scum. This is possibly the best time EVER for using RNg. Everyone lynch OdinofPergo, because statistically speaking he is scum. Why does more factions = more scum? Wouldn't scum numbers stay the same to keep the ratio of scum/all players balanced? As a member of the balance team, I can assure you that a multifactional game supports more scum than a non-multifactional game. There are a number of reasons for this. Part of it is that, say, in a 2-scum-faction game, half of the scum will push on each other for reasons unrelated to bussing, because they can't distinguish between "scum on the other scum team" and "town". They'll even shoot into each other sometimes. Town loses the ability to make some associative tells, but the amount of crosstalk from scum accidentally pushing or shooting each other makes up for it. 2+2 scum with each group having 1 kp will never be as effective as 4 scum with 2 kp working together at killing town. That being said, you never mentioned any real objection to the concept of RNG, you just questioned my estimate of scum in this game. I can only assume you didn't object to actual RNG because you think it would be fine if more factions = more scum. So, now that I've shown that more factions = more scum, you'll vote odin, yes? I would need some kind of hard evindence that there are multiple scum factions in this game to RNG lynch, since those additional factions could be third parties and that wouldn't necessarily increase the scum numbers. The definition of factions pretty much means they have to be scum aligned. Otherwise we'd just call them "blues". Even if they were like 3p factions or whatever, we'd still want them dead, right? Also nice goalpost moving. 1. "do more factions = more scum? wouldn't scum numbers stay the same to keep the ratio... balanced?" as a question implies that you, like me, expected all or most of the factions to be scum factions. 2. but then "additional factions could be third parties..." later on is what you say after I show solve #1. So, what's the deal? Why the resistance on the odinofpergo lynch??? From OP: "Town-Wincondition: Eliminate all Factions, which endanger town!" Not necessarily all scum aligned?
Are you trolling me or are you serious? Pulling publicly-available information from the OP does not make someone town.
Also, why do you have your vote on the most obvious townie in the thread?
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On May 21 2014 08:15 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 08:13 Hapahauli wrote:On May 21 2014 08:10 Holyflare wrote:On May 21 2014 08:06 Hapahauli wrote:Can we stop troll voting and talk about someone that's actually scummy? On May 21 2014 07:54 Hapahauli wrote:... @ EveryoneLet's kill Valenius: + Show Spoiler +On May 21 2014 06:22 Valenius wrote:
9 player day 1's normally confuse me. gg. On May 21 2014 06:24 Valenius wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 06:22 Koshi wrote:On May 21 2014 06:22 Valenius wrote:
9 player day 1's normally confuse me. gg. Sheep me sheeping marv. ezgame ezlife. i thought you were hosting. wtf. ##vote: Koshi On May 21 2014 06:29 Valenius wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 06:28 Koshi wrote:On May 21 2014 06:27 Koshi wrote:On May 21 2014 06:24 Valenius wrote:On May 21 2014 06:22 Koshi wrote:On May 21 2014 06:22 Valenius wrote:
9 player day 1's normally confuse me. gg. Sheep me sheeping marv. ezgame ezlife. i thought you were hosting. wtf. ##vote: Koshi Even though I am a divine being in this game. I ascended and joined the plebs. I don't have anything against plebs though, they are simple but amusing beings. I allow the smartest of them to call me Koshi. You can call me Master. I might have meant descended. It is just hard for me to grasp going downwards. It was such a nice post, I wasn't going to correct it for you. On May 21 2014 06:50 Valenius wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 06:49 Yell0w wrote:
So about this whole RNG thing, aren't scum players more likely to vote for OdinofPergo if he isn't in their faction since they don't even need a reason to vote him? They can just claim they're doing it for RNG and get a lynch on someone who isn't aligned with them?
Wouldn't a better way be to each claim we are RNG voting, then use the RNG on the post in which we claimed it and then vote for whomever our own post said? So that there is no way to know if you're going to lynch someone of your own faction or not so it's riskier for scum to go by RNG? Maybe I'm completely wrong here. I like that, I haven't thought it through - But I like it. RNG V2 On May 21 2014 06:52 Valenius wrote:
Actually, won't it cause the same theoretical situation, just with votes more spread? On May 21 2014 07:44 Valenius wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 21 2014 07:42 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 06:17 27ninjabunnies wrote:
I'd lynch HF in a heartbeat if he aligned with mafia. Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 06:23 27ninjabunnies wrote:
Oh I'd lynch tamburini in a heartbeat regardless of his alignment. Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 07:28 WaveofShadow wrote:
Sorry HF you've broken my heart too many times. Chalis (ハート Heart) is an antagonist in Golden Sun: Dark Dawn. Together with Blados, she is one of the commanders of a secretive military nation named Tuaparang. All three are bad guys taunting us in the thread. I rest my case. LOL ##unvoted koshi btw On May 21 2014 07:48 Valenius wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 07:47 Holyflare wrote:On May 21 2014 07:45 Steveling wrote:On May 21 2014 07:43 Holyflare wrote:On May 21 2014 07:36 marvellosity wrote:Xatalos, I really have no idea, nor do I care, because I don't particularly strive to be consistent from game to game. Honestly the fact that you're beating away at this makes you look kinda better though, so maybe I'll unvote you if I'm feeling nice On May 21 2014 07:32 Holyflare wrote:
yes please do
##unvote
##vote steveling
You do realise, though, that Steve's semi-ridiculous behaviour makes it less likely he's mafia though, yes? (or traditional mafia. I'm just gonna say town for town and mafia for all the other factions until something tells me otherwise) On May 21 2014 07:20 Holyflare wrote:
if you're gonna play like last game i will actually policy lynch you and i honestly don't care despite me being scum in the game he was talking about we literally only won because he was doing what he was doing as town and was an easy mislynch so i'm just going to get rid of him until he learns Yes you literally only won because of my bad play as town right? Not because NO ONE, LITERALLY NO ONE VOTED FOR A SCUM IN ALL 3 DAYS. Oh wait, except me. ^^^ case in point anyway bh if you take out newbie games towns recently have a 40%+ chance of finding mafia day 1 by lynching and so it's obv far better not to rng If you add in newbie games, we just lynch town/any claimed power roles. ezpz 6 posts, all of them a mixture of "+1'ing" other people and irrelevant comments. His filter reads a lot like someone who's artificially trying to insert himself in discussion. ##Vote: Valenius i think he's town for this post: On May 21 2014 07:50 Valenius wrote:On May 21 2014 07:48 Blazinghand wrote:On May 21 2014 07:45 jampidampi wrote:On May 21 2014 07:33 Blazinghand wrote:On May 21 2014 06:40 jampidampi wrote:On May 21 2014 06:32 Blazinghand wrote:
Look, I know you guys all hate RNG lynch but with 4 factions there's gonna be way more scum than usual, right? This means RNG has a much higher chance than usual of hitting scum. This is possibly the best time EVER for using RNg. Everyone lynch OdinofPergo, because statistically speaking he is scum. Why does more factions = more scum? Wouldn't scum numbers stay the same to keep the ratio of scum/all players balanced? As a member of the balance team, I can assure you that a multifactional game supports more scum than a non-multifactional game. There are a number of reasons for this. Part of it is that, say, in a 2-scum-faction game, half of the scum will push on each other for reasons unrelated to bussing, because they can't distinguish between "scum on the other scum team" and "town". They'll even shoot into each other sometimes. Town loses the ability to make some associative tells, but the amount of crosstalk from scum accidentally pushing or shooting each other makes up for it. 2+2 scum with each group having 1 kp will never be as effective as 4 scum with 2 kp working together at killing town. That being said, you never mentioned any real objection to the concept of RNG, you just questioned my estimate of scum in this game. I can only assume you didn't object to actual RNG because you think it would be fine if more factions = more scum. So, now that I've shown that more factions = more scum, you'll vote odin, yes? I would need some kind of hard evindence that there are multiple scum factions in this game to RNG lynch, since those additional factions could be third parties and that wouldn't necessarily increase the scum numbers. The definition of factions pretty much means they have to be scum aligned. Otherwise we'd just call them "blues". Even if they were like 3p factions or whatever, we'd still want them dead, right? Also nice goalpost moving. 1. "do more factions = more scum? wouldn't scum numbers stay the same to keep the ratio... balanced?" as a question implies that you, like me, expected all or most of the factions to be scum factions. 2. but then "additional factions could be third parties..." later on is what you say after I show solve #1. So, what's the deal? Why the resistance on the odinofpergo lynch??? From OP: "Town-Wincondition: Eliminate all Factions, which endanger town!" Not necessarily all scum aligned? Are you trolling me or are you serious? Pulling publicly-available information from the OP does not make someone town. Also, why do you have your vote on the most obvious townie in the thread? because you aren't reading what i've stated twice and no it's absolutely not trolling, who is more likely to pull someone from the op indicating that some factions might not be scum aligned? mafia, town or a maybe town aligned 3p factioner? to me it looks more like that latter regardless of his lackluster contributions
I don't think so at all. For example, it would make perfect sense in this game for a scum-aligned faction member to know that information in the OP, since they too are aware of the other factions in this game.
In general, I don't think speculating on what factions know what sort of information is wise in a closed-themed setup.
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Ok Valenius can wait.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/440546-golden-sun-the-lost-age-mafia-djinn-edition?page=33#650
This is the scummiest post in this thread by far.
It is extremely long, and could not be more useless. He's making a show of contributing to the town without actually providing anything in the way of analysis.
There's nothing constructive posting one's "reads" in this manner. It's just a giant mind-dump with a bunch of quotes - a format that no one could possibly pick any useful information out of.
On top of it, the actual content of the post just shits and shits on random things that players have said in the game. It's a very common type of post for mafia to make, and I'd like to see this guy dead.
##Unvote
##Vote mtanburini
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On May 21 2014 09:11 geript wrote:
Also @Hapa. Why aren't you reading me as the most obviously town in this game?
I do think you're town, but Steveling is more obvious. Ranking townies is a kinda silly game to play this early in the game though - what's important is that I'd lynch neither of you.
Also that push on HF was weird. It's like a really odd push from you.
What's strange about it? He wants to policy lynch my top town read, and someone he should know is obviously town.
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Slam, who do you think is mafia?
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On May 21 2014 11:29 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 11:27 Hapahauli wrote:On May 21 2014 09:11 geript wrote:
Also @Hapa. Why aren't you reading me as the most obviously town in this game? I do think you're town, but Steveling is more obvious. Ranking townies is a kinda silly game to play this early in the game though - what's important is that I'd lynch neither of you. Also that push on HF was weird. It's like a really odd push from you. What's strange about it? He wants to policy lynch my top town read, and someone he should know is obviously town. well you know.... that's the jist of a policy lynch, it's a policy.
It's also batshit retarded.
Who do you actually think is mafia?
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On May 21 2014 11:33 Steveling wrote:
I don't think this is favorable for town guys.
We need to talk more.
We don't need to talk more - we need to talk more constructively. We have so many posts, but so little of them are actually directed at scumhunting. Instead, people are perusing random selfish agendas instead of trying to push discussion.
/endrant
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On May 21 2014 11:34 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 11:31 Hapahauli wrote:On May 21 2014 11:29 Holyflare wrote:On May 21 2014 11:27 Hapahauli wrote:On May 21 2014 09:11 geript wrote:
Also @Hapa. Why aren't you reading me as the most obviously town in this game? I do think you're town, but Steveling is more obvious. Ranking townies is a kinda silly game to play this early in the game though - what's important is that I'd lynch neither of you. Also that push on HF was weird. It's like a really odd push from you. What's strange about it? He wants to policy lynch my top town read, and someone he should know is obviously town. well you know.... that's the jist of a policy lynch, it's a policy. It's also batshit retarded. Who do you actually think is mafia? yellow for his contradiction and only talking about rng, regardless of what people said about him in previous games, that contradiction is just too wild and looks like fitting into the flow of the game at the time slam for his too serious to be town attitude, asking me about yellow and saying nothing about it and then going into defensive mode and agreeing with geripts meta probably bkraltlyyl if it's vivax which i'm leaning heavily towards
Ok that's better.
So why aren't you voting // writing cases on them?
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On May 21 2014 11:38 Holyflare wrote:
but that's the point about a policy it's a policy > everything else
Yeah, but like... why...
I'd love to think you're town, but holy shit you're a better player than trying to lynch/flame-bait a player that you should know is town.
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On May 21 2014 11:43 27ninjabunnies wrote:
See, I don't find tamburini's post all that bad.
Sure it was only focused on certain people, one of them including me, but its nt unlikely for him to include me specifically in his reads because we play video mafia together.
Some of his reads were pretty good, and I like it questioning, though I completely agree some of it was filler.
The problem with his post isn't necessarily that every little bit of info is terrible. The problem is the presentation and scope.
Firstly, it's almost designed to be the least efficient/effective way of communicating one's reads/information. When a townie finds someone suspicious, they are generally direct about it "I find <xxx> town, and <yyy> suspicious, for <zzz> reason." However this post is just a clusterfuck. His reads are buried in the middle of irrelevant banter, and hell he changes his mind on reads of the course of his post!
The post is not designed to be helpful - it's designed to be massive and showy. Ergo, he's trying to appear like he's contributing without actually contributing.
Secondly, the scope of the post is just a mess. He just finds random things in the thread that he doesn't agree with and is really snarky about them. That's a really common mafia tactic - to find a bunch of things to critique/shit-on in the thread. It gives the effect of making one appear to contribute, when in reality, nitpicking several posters is generally easy, creates paranoia, and serves no real constructive purpose to actually finding mafia.
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On May 21 2014 11:56 Yell0w wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 11:55 Cephiro wrote:On May 21 2014 11:50 Holyflare wrote:Her response is quite interesting. She does correctly analyze on scenario, that is, if I didn't have a proper read and wanted to gain more information on her. There are many others she does not think about however. What I'm most interested in, is this crucial miss: She does not at all consider a possibility where I am scum. Ding ding, alarm bells anyone? this is the part of your case where you assume something completely wild and out of the blue cephiro that is so off tangent to the original question that it doesn't make sense and then the rest of your case is entirely based off of this How is not considering the possibility of someone voting on you being scum completely wild? She literally ignores the possibility of me being scum voting on her, as proved by her own thought process. They were my first posts in the game and I instantly pressured/attacked her. And she didn't even think of the possibility of me being scum. Like literally, all her responses screamed that I was town to her. There is no way she could be that sure I am town by just exchanging a post or two with her by that stage. Care to elaborate on your reasoning why it's a completely wild assumption and debunks the whole case? The problem is there are multiple scum factions, you could both be scum and not know it.
How do you know that? The OP makes it clear that there are 4 factions other than town, and doesn't say anything about what those factions are.
Hm.
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@ Cephiro
I'll comment on your case in a bit - I want to see what other people think of it first.
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On May 21 2014 12:14 WaveofShadow wrote:Hint: It's never obvious (or I suppose 'too obvious' which is why you always win as scum) How could you ever go about proving you are town? Ever? Even in games as scum you play supertown and lynch your scumbuddies and win. There is nothing you can do to alleviate my fears which is why you die today. You will be the sacrifice this town needs to proceed.
We're not lynching Holyflare today. You will not have much success in mafia lynching people with a 4 page filter ~6 hours into the game.
Talk about some of the other good candidates up on the block.
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On May 21 2014 12:23 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 12:17 Hapahauli wrote:On May 21 2014 12:14 WaveofShadow wrote:On May 21 2014 12:13 Holyflare wrote:
should be obvious/will be obvious Hint: It's never obvious (or I suppose 'too obvious' which is why you always win as scum) How could you ever go about proving you are town? Ever? Even in games as scum you play supertown and lynch your scumbuddies and win. There is nothing you can do to alleviate my fears which is why you die today. You will be the sacrifice this town needs to proceed. We're not lynching Holyflare today. You will not have much success in mafia lynching people with a 4 page filter ~6 hours into the game. Talk about some of the other good candidates up on the block. There are those who will try to sway me from my mission. There are those who lead the true believers astray from the path. But srsly Hapa you think filter is in any way indicative of HF's town v scumplay? I ruv u and all, but have you seen this guy play? He is a liability waayyyyy more often than he is an asset to town and he can and will singlehandedly win games for his team. It is not a chance I want to take, so unless you can find some conclusive reason as to why we should not be lynching HF today then don't bother.
You're letting your paranoia run wild. Relax and talk about realistic and useful things. No one's going to listen to you if your justification for lynching Holyflare is because you worship his scumplay.
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On May 21 2014 12:30 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 12:27 Cavalinho wrote:On May 21 2014 12:24 WaveofShadow wrote:On May 21 2014 12:23 Cavalinho wrote:On May 21 2014 12:20 Holyflare wrote:On May 21 2014 12:18 thrawn2112 wrote:On May 21 2014 12:16 Holyflare wrote:On May 21 2014 12:14 thrawn2112 wrote:
Why do you think it's obvious that you're town? just more talky/not give a shitty as town i guess? You scum read Cav for accurately meta reading you last game, but you expect people to be correctly meta reading you right now? cav hasn't played enough games with me and just got off of a game where i was scum and he went crazy town read on me which was totally suspicious You think I haven't, but I have. You're the one player on the site I'm incredibly familiar with and I'm 100% confident I could read you as either alignment. Cav. Cav. Cav pls. Enlighten me. What are the secrets to reading Holyflare? I'll tell you on one condition: You tell me how to link posts. Deal? You still have to tell me even if someone else told you  And Hapa, not good enough.
FFS just talk about something other than Holyflare.
Like Yell0w, ceph's case on bunnies, my own two cases... literally anything that doesn't involve you ranting like a madman.
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On May 21 2014 12:30 Holyflare wrote:
hapa can you elaborate on your cephiro thing now?
Very similar thoughts to what you said.
Cephrio just started a very awkward conversation with bunnies, and is reading far too much into seemingly reasonable and mundane replies.
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##Foolishness Read: 27ninjabunnies, Yell0w, mtamburini, Valenius
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Honestly ceph, I read that and my eyes just glaze over. Normally I find your analysis quite good, but this just seems like an absurdly technical case that makes a few too many assumptions about certain posts.
For example, I can't figure out how her posts some how assume that you're town. I've read that conversation repeatedly, and it just seems like you're reading into it waaaaay too much.
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On May 21 2014 12:48 Cavalinho wrote:
We should either make Cephiro make legible posts or waste him.
I'm not reading that dogshit and I'm pretty sure he did this same kind of garbage zoning off into his own little world in Cell.
o.o
Where did this anger come from? You have a history with him or something?
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Lynching a guy with a 7 page filter after 24 hours is literally the most retarded thing.
Anyway, I'm going to give the thread another fresh readthrough and post my thoughts in a few hours. We need to start moving towards consolidation now that there are some actual lynch candidates about.
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Steeveling and Geript - can both of you stop repeatedly flamebaiting each other? It's completely useless thread content, and you're probably both town arguing with each other like idiots.
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Alright finished reading the thread, and my thoughts haven't changed too much.
mtamburini's still my lynch of choice today.
I've already made some thoughts on her larger quote-bomb post...
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/440546-golden-sun-the-lost-age-mafia-djinn-edition?page=38#745
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/440546-golden-sun-the-lost-age-mafia-djinn-edition?page=40#787
...and foolishness has a post on her as well...
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/440546-golden-sun-the-lost-age-mafia-djinn-edition?page=55#1087
Just to add to this though, I found this post which is all sorts of WAT:
On May 21 2014 12:39 mtamburini wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 21 2014 11:45 Cephiro wrote:First up, the thoughts behind my questioning. While initially reading the thread I noticed 27ninja is a very cooperative person. Which is why I started the whole exchange with her. Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 06:52 27ninjabunnies wrote:
If I'm avoiding your question, it's because I have a pretty good damn reason as to why.
But because you are being persistant, the ones I have my eye on are Steveling, WaveofShadow and Tehpoofter.
She takes part in the discussion a lot and actively, aiming to contribute (or look like contributing.) Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 07:30 27ninjabunnies wrote:On May 21 2014 07:28 jampidampi wrote:
Before I continue, were you annoyed with my guestions? No, questions are good. They get reads. Reads are good. So the questions were not annoying. I was more annoyed by the fact you said I was avoiding what you were asking. I think I had made it clear as to why. But please continue. I want to hear more. Her intention is to try and play as honestly as possible. Which again, is not a bad thing from a town perspective, but if you roll scum and try to play with the least amount of lies possible, it will be hard. The point of interest here is her admitting her annoyance to being called out on her play. She encourages others to share the reasons on hers, yet withholds her own for "reasons", are excused as: Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 06:52 27ninjabunnies wrote:
But this doesn't necessarily mean they are scum. I rather read more of their play and interactions before I straight out call someone mafia. The majority of these people I haven't played with, and this is my second forum game.
If I don't have logic behind my reads, where does that put me? As a freaking town more likely to get mislynched.
So hold your horses, let me get my reads, and then we'll talk. While I definitely agree with the logic behind it, her reasoning doesn't seem sincere. It's as if she wants to put content into the thread, but avoid (for now), making any decisions that may come to haunt her play later. Specifically: She doesn't want to be read as scum. Obviously, no town player does, but her play is (even self-admittingly) aimed at not being read as scum. Even if you are read as scum as a townie, it doesn't mean you can't manage to prove your town-ness. Surely, it's an uphill battle, but for someone putting as much effort as her in the game seems unlikely to be _that_ scared of being a misread as a town. Rather, I feel the fear comes from other players correctly reading her as scum. Analysis break: My questions, the reasons behind it, and my conclusions of her replies. Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 10:28 27ninjabunnies wrote:On May 21 2014 10:27 Cephiro wrote:
Confirming one thing, are you asking for my reasons as for:
1) Why I'm reading you as mafia?
2) Why I'm voting on you? Well I assume you are voting me because you are reading me as mafia. So, why are you reading me as mafia? The first exchange. My question here aims at finding the natural level of her thought process. It may not be the best comparison, but think about chess. What I'm aiming to find here is whether she thinks about: 1) The current move 2) The reasons behind the current move 3) The follow-up to the current move Or a multitude of the above. As you can see, she instantly jumps into an assumption that I vote her because I read her as mafia. She doesn't take her thought process further (into different possibilities), into questions such as: "Would he vote for me for a reason other than suspecting me as mafia?" Instead, she takes it for granted that I suspect her to be mafia. It fits well with her wanting to play as honestly as possible, trying not to doubt the claims of others. This I feel is a trait belonging to the person. So here I establish the fact that she doesn't think things ahead. Her thought process is not zero though, but considering the current step with the information given to her comes more naturally. (There are people who naturally start thinking multiple steps ahead.) Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 10:46 27ninjabunnies wrote:On May 21 2014 10:39 Cephiro wrote:
I will have to respond to your question with another to stay true to my motives.
If I didn't consider you as mafia, why would I be voting for you?
Even if my replies seem very off to you, please do respond. You're under evaluation. If you don't consider me as mafia, you shouldn't be voting me. The only reason outside of you considering me as mafia for why you would vote for me is this: you want to get a read on me via my reactions to your voting on me to see if I react poorly or more town favored. This is only used if you don't have a read on me from what I've previously posted. This can also lead to reads from other people if they begin questioning you or agreeing with you. So again, why are you reading me as mafia? Here is my followup. My question is intentionally aimed to hint at a possibility of thinking outside the box. As I came into the conclusion that she doesn't naturally by instinct start thinking things too many steps ahead, I wanted to see the reaction that would come after hinted towards doing such. Her response is quite interesting. She does correctly analyze on scenario, that is, if I didn't have a proper read and wanted to gain more information on her. There are many others she does not think about however. What I'm most interested in, is this crucial miss: She does not at all consider a possibility where I am scum. Ding ding, alarm bells anyone? Note how she points out that if I don't really consider her as mafia, I shouldn't be voting for her. Yet at the end of her post, she asks why I'm reading her as mafia. This means that she thinks (knows?) of me being a town player suspecting her, rather than any other possibility. Why could I not be a scum player trying to start a wagon on her? She doesn't even go through this option at all, even after being hinted to think outside the box. It's as if she knows I'm town. That's not possible unless she's scum. On to my third question: Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 11:08 27ninjabunnies wrote:On May 21 2014 10:54 Cephiro wrote:
One last question before I will answer your question.
I already know you read me as town. If you had a strong scumread on me however, would you go all-out to make me the lynch of the day right away? I like how confident you are in yourself. As for reading you as town, that's yet to be determined. If I had a strong scumread on you, yes, I would probably push on you to get you lynched. As for right away, it depends. If I think I can have support, I'll push right away. If I don't think I'll have any support, I'd need t find evidence that can prove or atleast put into speculation that you are mafia. So, your answer? This question was mainly to confirm. I was fairly certain that she does not intentionally downplay her ability to mislead her opponent. Combined with the logical deduction of her naturally not thinking ahead, and with her honest tendency to answer questions, I have no reason to believe she'd be lying about this one either. It would be possible to downplay or not reveal your scumread to try and trap a person into a situation which essentially confirms them as scum to other players, or many shenanigans of the kind. Her response however is strictly related to her own confidence about her read. If she's sure about her read, she'll go for it (no downplaying). If she's unsure, she'll work to be able to trust her read enough to convince others. (Upping her own play.) With this I come into the conclusion that she is not downplaying her abilities when responding to others, or in any questions that she replied to me. This is exactly why I consider the 2nd question where she does NOT EVEN CONSIDER ME AS POSSIBLE SCUM extremely alarming. Also take in consideration how interested in she is in the reasons why I suspect her to be mafia. She doesn't just ignore and wait for me to actually provide something, but she actively asks for it again and again. If not combined with the above, I would see this as a townie trait, but I feel she is trying to get to know her mistakes/flaws in early play so she doesn't make the same mistakes later on. TLDR: 1) Is afraid of being seen as scum 2) Extremely co-operative due to not wanting to be looked upon badly, refer to point 1. 3) Ignores the possibility of the player questioning her being scum. 4) When suspected, wants to know the flaws in her play to not repeat the mistake later Like literally, for one moment she doesn't think I could be scum trying to push her for mislynch. 27ninjabunnies is mafia, and needs to be lynched. My vote stays where it is. Opinions? Goddamn bunnies back to scummy now, I need you to pretend your formaled and defend yourself. He brings up all the points I wanted to kill yellow in other game. Do I need to claim Bird Jesus again and say im going to shoot you and see if I get roleblocked?
She quote's ceph's giant case on Bunnies and basically blindly agrees with it. There's no indication in this post that she's actually read the damn thing - it's almost like she looks at the case, sees it's big, and just sheeps it.
Furthermore, the bolded comment is incredibly strange, given that yellow flipped town in the game in-question. You'd think she would exhibit more pause after wanting to lynch a townie for similar rationale, but instead she bolsters her suspicions with it... that just makes very little sense from a town perspective.
Of all the points against her, I think this is the most compelling.
Ritoky/Valenius
I've seen these two mentioned as possible scum candidates. Austin's case on Ritoky is somewhat compelling, however I don't think it takes into account the sheer difference between a mini-newbie game and a 32-person monster-spamfest. The wishy-washiness to me could be explained by how intimidating/confusing this thread is to a newer player. Hell I'm having problems keeping track of this myself, and I'm considered a "vet."
All and all, I agree that they're playing differently than their town metas have shown in the past, but I think that it could be explained by the difference in gametypes.
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On May 22 2014 06:57 marvellosity wrote:
##Sheep: Koshi
##Vote: layabout
I'll get to layabout in a bit, but I'm curious what you think of Koshi?
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On May 22 2014 07:05 Holyflare wrote:
just saying tambo is a guy ~_~
Gealwkefjalskdjfawef why do people keep calling him "she"?
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On May 22 2014 07:05 marvellosity wrote:Obviously they aren't the greatest, and they're pretty non-committal. Can't argue with that. But as mentioned, a plausible explanation is newbie in massive game trying to find his feet and finding it tough. Could also explain his obsession with bunnies, although that can go either way. Your points are valid enough but there's things weighing down in the opposite direction that don't make it super strong. layabout's threadcop posts are the opposite of townie, he'll make them as both alignments, but more so as mafia I believe. And it's the fact that the content outside these posts is so irredeemingly poor that's the real issue (both none and bad are apposite descriptions). For some reason this kinda reminds me of long ago in LIX on Day 1 when you were pushing Stutters really hard and I was pushing prplhz. Your points were valid enough, but meh. On the bright side, you were town that game 
I was looking at some of his past games. He's definetely thread-cop'd as town before.
The weird thing about his play is that he's perfectly capable of having very forceful/direct suspicions as mafia, and in all 4 of his mafia games, he had some pretty early tunnel target. His town play is slightly more inquisitive, but also is fairly direct.
So his fairly inconclusive posting this game is something of a wildcard, and I'm not sure what to make of it.
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On May 22 2014 07:17 marvellosity wrote:
I even quoted and bolded it Hapa. Jeez man.
Wait who are you talking about? Tambo?
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On May 22 2014 07:19 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2014 07:18 Hapahauli wrote:On May 22 2014 07:17 marvellosity wrote:
I even quoted and bolded it Hapa. Jeez man. Wait who are you talking about? Tambo? no, ritoky.
But I'm not advocating lynching ritoky over layabout. I'm advocating lynching Tambo over layabout >>
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On May 22 2014 08:00 Cavalinho wrote:
WoS, look into Steveling. HF is town and Hapa is also probably town.
I'm boggled by the fact that marv said having a huge filter is good for town. It's not when there's nothing there but useless garbage that clogs up the thread and doesn't accomplish anything.
Also, who said we should lynch layabout? When you're talking about a guy that gets lynched day 1/2 a lot, maybe, just maybe you should take the quality of their play into consideration. Maybe I'm biased because I got lynched day 1 a lot for stupid reasons, but I still really want to kill Steveling today over anything and everything else for the moment.
I'd be really wary of people who say that just having a big filter is good for town.
Steveling would be a terrible lynch. I get that you don't like his play, and his play is very spammy, but it's also very clearly town. Just because his spam is "contentless" doesn't mean it isn't genuine. Look at some of his other games - he plays like that all the time.
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On May 22 2014 08:04 Cavalinho wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2014 08:03 Hapahauli wrote:On May 22 2014 08:00 Cavalinho wrote:
WoS, look into Steveling. HF is town and Hapa is also probably town.
I'm boggled by the fact that marv said having a huge filter is good for town. It's not when there's nothing there but useless garbage that clogs up the thread and doesn't accomplish anything.
Also, who said we should lynch layabout? When you're talking about a guy that gets lynched day 1/2 a lot, maybe, just maybe you should take the quality of their play into consideration. Maybe I'm biased because I got lynched day 1 a lot for stupid reasons, but I still really want to kill Steveling today over anything and everything else for the moment.
I'd be really wary of people who say that just having a big filter is good for town. Steveling would be a terrible lynch. I get that you don't like his play, and his play is very spammy, but it's also very clearly town. Just because his spam is "contentless" doesn't mean it isn't genuine. Look at some of his other games - he plays like that all the time. Before we start arguing, I want to know what "genuine" is.
Genuine can be many things. What's "townie" about his filter is that he's constantly posting without thinking, getting into many fights, and is generally wearing his emotions on his sleeve. Contrast this with normal mafia instincts to hide, avoid conflict, etc.
Also, look at his past games and compare them to this one. If you haven't done that, then your analysis is meaningless.
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On May 22 2014 08:09 layabout wrote:If marv convinces yall to lynch me, which i am rather tempted to just let happen you should flip this guy: Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 22:55 jampidampi wrote:
So after skimming the thread I realize that I'm left with less time than I'd like to have, so I'll just make a list that will probably never be explained.
Would not lynch today:
Meapak
Hapa
Holy
poofter
BlueyD
austin
Koshi
BH
fool
geript
bkq
ceph
wave
xatalos
Preffered lynch:
layabout
Could lynch today:
Valenius
thrawn
bunnies
sqrt
Yellow
tamburini
MysteryMeat
No clue:
slam
marv
steveling
kitaman
cavalinho
If I forgot someone then I'm sorry, they belong probably to the no clue list.
##Vote: layabout this is his first and only mention of me. it is unsubstantiated but follows the tone of the thread. a list takes a significant amount of time to produce compared to a sentence or two to explain your vote, he is putting in time but missing out the important bit for a towny. it looks very much like a mafia vote to get a wagon rolling he is giving momentum to a trail of thoughts without adding anything of substance to it whatsoever. I am dissapointed in you guys
Be dissappointed in your own play. This is literally the first read of any substance you've made all game.
Talk to me about some other people - mtamburini and ritoky are a good start.
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On May 22 2014 08:12 Cavalinho wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2014 08:07 Hapahauli wrote:On May 22 2014 08:04 Cavalinho wrote:On May 22 2014 08:03 Hapahauli wrote:On May 22 2014 08:00 Cavalinho wrote:
WoS, look into Steveling. HF is town and Hapa is also probably town.
I'm boggled by the fact that marv said having a huge filter is good for town. It's not when there's nothing there but useless garbage that clogs up the thread and doesn't accomplish anything.
Also, who said we should lynch layabout? When you're talking about a guy that gets lynched day 1/2 a lot, maybe, just maybe you should take the quality of their play into consideration. Maybe I'm biased because I got lynched day 1 a lot for stupid reasons, but I still really want to kill Steveling today over anything and everything else for the moment.
I'd be really wary of people who say that just having a big filter is good for town. Steveling would be a terrible lynch. I get that you don't like his play, and his play is very spammy, but it's also very clearly town. Just because his spam is "contentless" doesn't mean it isn't genuine. Look at some of his other games - he plays like that all the time. Before we start arguing, I want to know what "genuine" is. Genuine can be many things. What's "townie" about his filter is that he's constantly posting without thinking, getting into many fights, and is generally wearing his emotions on his sleeve. Contrast this with normal mafia instincts to hide, avoid conflict, etc. Also, look at his past games and compare them to this one. If you haven't done that, then your analysis is meaningless. I've played with him before. He is doing the exact same thing he was doing in Cell, making people feel smart and getting people to ignore him. It's spammier than normal, but that's not the issue that I have with him. Like some of the players right now are just calling it boring (Koshi) without trying to see if it's legitimately true or not. Why is this not an issue for you?
Nothing in this post describes why Steveling is scum. You compare his play in Cell to his play here, but they look very different at first glance to me. He is definetely active in Cell, but seems a lot more calm. Compared to this game, he's picking fights and is generally an attention-whore.
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On May 22 2014 08:20 Cavalinho wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2014 08:18 Hapahauli wrote:On May 22 2014 08:12 Cavalinho wrote:On May 22 2014 08:07 Hapahauli wrote:On May 22 2014 08:04 Cavalinho wrote:On May 22 2014 08:03 Hapahauli wrote:On May 22 2014 08:00 Cavalinho wrote:
WoS, look into Steveling. HF is town and Hapa is also probably town.
I'm boggled by the fact that marv said having a huge filter is good for town. It's not when there's nothing there but useless garbage that clogs up the thread and doesn't accomplish anything.
Also, who said we should lynch layabout? When you're talking about a guy that gets lynched day 1/2 a lot, maybe, just maybe you should take the quality of their play into consideration. Maybe I'm biased because I got lynched day 1 a lot for stupid reasons, but I still really want to kill Steveling today over anything and everything else for the moment.
I'd be really wary of people who say that just having a big filter is good for town. Steveling would be a terrible lynch. I get that you don't like his play, and his play is very spammy, but it's also very clearly town. Just because his spam is "contentless" doesn't mean it isn't genuine. Look at some of his other games - he plays like that all the time. Before we start arguing, I want to know what "genuine" is. Genuine can be many things. What's "townie" about his filter is that he's constantly posting without thinking, getting into many fights, and is generally wearing his emotions on his sleeve. Contrast this with normal mafia instincts to hide, avoid conflict, etc. Also, look at his past games and compare them to this one. If you haven't done that, then your analysis is meaningless. I've played with him before. He is doing the exact same thing he was doing in Cell, making people feel smart and getting people to ignore him. It's spammier than normal, but that's not the issue that I have with him. Like some of the players right now are just calling it boring (Koshi) without trying to see if it's legitimately true or not. Why is this not an issue for you? Nothing in this post describes why Steveling is scum. You compare his play in Cell to his play here, but they look very different at first glance to me. He is definetely active in Cell, but seems a lot more calm. Compared to this game, he's picking fights and is generally an attention-whore. Then check my filter for the big, red-titled post on why I thought he was scum.
But that's the thing - those types of posts you point out "after the spam" really aren't present in Cell Mafia. He just seems as a whole so much more hyper and emotional in this game.
Anyway, talk to me about some other people. Layabout, tambo, ritoky, etc.
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On May 22 2014 08:21 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2014 08:06 Holyflare wrote:On May 22 2014 08:03 Hapahauli wrote:On May 22 2014 08:00 Cavalinho wrote:
WoS, look into Steveling. HF is town and Hapa is also probably town.
I'm boggled by the fact that marv said having a huge filter is good for town. It's not when there's nothing there but useless garbage that clogs up the thread and doesn't accomplish anything.
Also, who said we should lynch layabout? When you're talking about a guy that gets lynched day 1/2 a lot, maybe, just maybe you should take the quality of their play into consideration. Maybe I'm biased because I got lynched day 1 a lot for stupid reasons, but I still really want to kill Steveling today over anything and everything else for the moment.
I'd be really wary of people who say that just having a big filter is good for town. Steveling would be a terrible lynch. I get that you don't like his play, and his play is very spammy, but it's also very clearly town. Just because his spam is "contentless" doesn't mean it isn't genuine. Look at some of his other games - he plays like that all the time. where are you gettin this info from? The database only has 2 of his games in it and they are both scum, Surprisingly Normal Mini Mafia VII Mafia Framer Survived Cell Mini Mafia Mafia Vanilla Survived Day 3 The only game he's played town in is in yuma where he was just spammy because he thought he caught someone and was being stubborn. I get that he looks towny this game but why are you implying this is "obvious town meta"? hapa you need to answer this ^^^^^^ replace yuma with glory seeker
Wait dafuq? Where did I ever say he had an "obvious town meta?" My read is more objective than anything else.
Anyway, the town game I did look at from him is...
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/449650-glory-seeker-mini-mafia
The TL Database isn't always complete or up to date. When I look at the difference between his mafia and town games, he's just so much more carefree/hyper/reckless in his town games. His mafia games are certainly active, but surprizingly placid.
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On May 22 2014 08:30 geript wrote:
Hapa did you read cell? He got in shitfights in cell too. Like I really don't get your characterization of his play.
I read the first 10 pages of his filter in Cell - I haven't seen anything close to the fights he's gotten into with players in this game
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On May 22 2014 15:01 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2014 08:03 Hapahauli wrote:On May 22 2014 08:00 Cavalinho wrote:
WoS, look into Steveling. HF is town and Hapa is also probably town.
I'm boggled by the fact that marv said having a huge filter is good for town. It's not when there's nothing there but useless garbage that clogs up the thread and doesn't accomplish anything.
Also, who said we should lynch layabout? When you're talking about a guy that gets lynched day 1/2 a lot, maybe, just maybe you should take the quality of their play into consideration. Maybe I'm biased because I got lynched day 1 a lot for stupid reasons, but I still really want to kill Steveling today over anything and everything else for the moment.
I'd be really wary of people who say that just having a big filter is good for town. Steveling would be a terrible lynch. I get that you don't like his play, and his play is very spammy, but it's also very clearly town. Just because his spam is "contentless" doesn't mean it isn't genuine. Look at some of his other games - he plays like that all the time. If by all the time, you mean his one game as town... Show nested quote +On May 22 2014 08:07 Hapahauli wrote:On May 22 2014 08:04 Cavalinho wrote:On May 22 2014 08:03 Hapahauli wrote:On May 22 2014 08:00 Cavalinho wrote:
WoS, look into Steveling. HF is town and Hapa is also probably town.
I'm boggled by the fact that marv said having a huge filter is good for town. It's not when there's nothing there but useless garbage that clogs up the thread and doesn't accomplish anything.
Also, who said we should lynch layabout? When you're talking about a guy that gets lynched day 1/2 a lot, maybe, just maybe you should take the quality of their play into consideration. Maybe I'm biased because I got lynched day 1 a lot for stupid reasons, but I still really want to kill Steveling today over anything and everything else for the moment.
I'd be really wary of people who say that just having a big filter is good for town. Steveling would be a terrible lynch. I get that you don't like his play, and his play is very spammy, but it's also very clearly town. Just because his spam is "contentless" doesn't mean it isn't genuine. Look at some of his other games - he plays like that all the time. Before we start arguing, I want to know what "genuine" is. Genuine can be many things. What's "townie" about his filter is that he's constantly posting without thinking, getting into many fights, and is generally wearing his emotions on his sleeve. Contrast this with normal mafia instincts to hide, avoid conflict, etc. Also, look at his past games and compare them to this one. If you haven't done that, then your analysis is meaningless. I have. I pointed out that he's gotten in shit fights as scum before. As a matter of fact, as town, he got in far less shitfights AND his posting was far more full of actual content. Show nested quote +On May 22 2014 08:18 Hapahauli wrote:On May 22 2014 08:12 Cavalinho wrote:On May 22 2014 08:07 Hapahauli wrote:On May 22 2014 08:04 Cavalinho wrote:On May 22 2014 08:03 Hapahauli wrote:On May 22 2014 08:00 Cavalinho wrote:
WoS, look into Steveling. HF is town and Hapa is also probably town.
I'm boggled by the fact that marv said having a huge filter is good for town. It's not when there's nothing there but useless garbage that clogs up the thread and doesn't accomplish anything.
Also, who said we should lynch layabout? When you're talking about a guy that gets lynched day 1/2 a lot, maybe, just maybe you should take the quality of their play into consideration. Maybe I'm biased because I got lynched day 1 a lot for stupid reasons, but I still really want to kill Steveling today over anything and everything else for the moment.
I'd be really wary of people who say that just having a big filter is good for town. Steveling would be a terrible lynch. I get that you don't like his play, and his play is very spammy, but it's also very clearly town. Just because his spam is "contentless" doesn't mean it isn't genuine. Look at some of his other games - he plays like that all the time. Before we start arguing, I want to know what "genuine" is. Genuine can be many things. What's "townie" about his filter is that he's constantly posting without thinking, getting into many fights, and is generally wearing his emotions on his sleeve. Contrast this with normal mafia instincts to hide, avoid conflict, etc. Also, look at his past games and compare them to this one. If you haven't done that, then your analysis is meaningless. I've played with him before. He is doing the exact same thing he was doing in Cell, making people feel smart and getting people to ignore him. It's spammier than normal, but that's not the issue that I have with him. Like some of the players right now are just calling it boring (Koshi) without trying to see if it's legitimately true or not. Why is this not an issue for you? Nothing in this post describes why Steveling is scum. You compare his play in Cell to his play here, but they look very different at first glance to me. He is definetely active in Cell, but seems a lot more calm. Compared to this game, he's picking fights and is generally an attention-whore. He was pretty whorish too. Plus for getting in as many fights as he's had, in all of those, he's been the calm one in them. He's the one who cares about whether or not he gets in trouble for it. Show nested quote +On May 22 2014 08:23 Hapahauli wrote:On May 22 2014 08:20 Cavalinho wrote:On May 22 2014 08:18 Hapahauli wrote:On May 22 2014 08:12 Cavalinho wrote:On May 22 2014 08:07 Hapahauli wrote:On May 22 2014 08:04 Cavalinho wrote:On May 22 2014 08:03 Hapahauli wrote:On May 22 2014 08:00 Cavalinho wrote:
WoS, look into Steveling. HF is town and Hapa is also probably town.
I'm boggled by the fact that marv said having a huge filter is good for town. It's not when there's nothing there but useless garbage that clogs up the thread and doesn't accomplish anything.
Also, who said we should lynch layabout? When you're talking about a guy that gets lynched day 1/2 a lot, maybe, just maybe you should take the quality of their play into consideration. Maybe I'm biased because I got lynched day 1 a lot for stupid reasons, but I still really want to kill Steveling today over anything and everything else for the moment.
I'd be really wary of people who say that just having a big filter is good for town. Steveling would be a terrible lynch. I get that you don't like his play, and his play is very spammy, but it's also very clearly town. Just because his spam is "contentless" doesn't mean it isn't genuine. Look at some of his other games - he plays like that all the time. Before we start arguing, I want to know what "genuine" is. Genuine can be many things. What's "townie" about his filter is that he's constantly posting without thinking, getting into many fights, and is generally wearing his emotions on his sleeve. Contrast this with normal mafia instincts to hide, avoid conflict, etc. Also, look at his past games and compare them to this one. If you haven't done that, then your analysis is meaningless. I've played with him before. He is doing the exact same thing he was doing in Cell, making people feel smart and getting people to ignore him. It's spammier than normal, but that's not the issue that I have with him. Like some of the players right now are just calling it boring (Koshi) without trying to see if it's legitimately true or not. Why is this not an issue for you? Nothing in this post describes why Steveling is scum. You compare his play in Cell to his play here, but they look very different at first glance to me. He is definetely active in Cell, but seems a lot more calm. Compared to this game, he's picking fights and is generally an attention-whore. Then check my filter for the big, red-titled post on why I thought he was scum. But that's the thing - those types of posts you point out "after the spam" really aren't present in Cell Mafia. He just seems as a whole so much more hyper and emotional in this game. Anyway, talk to me about some other people. Layabout, tambo, ritoky, etc. I agree that his play on face value looks different from Cell. But it also looks exceptionally different from Glory Hole. The trends in his play are far more reflective is his Cell game than his Gloryhole game. Like I really don't get how you could meta a player so awfully. Mine explaining why you've protected Scumeling so many times on bad meta?
I really don't know how to say it any better than I have: the guy has a fucking 10 page filter in 24 hours. If you think mafia can do that, you're insane.
But then again, I really don't feel like arguing any more since...
a) There's no way I'm going to convince someone confirmation biased enough to call the guy "scumelling" over and overa gain.
b) Steveling isn't getting lynched. My target of choice is.
c) The "oats-whisperer" does not get to lecture me on how to interpret meta cases.
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On May 22 2014 16:28 geript wrote:
I'm honestly not sure I've been as frustrated playing mafia as I have with this game. When I'm not "going crazy" nobody likes or listens to my points. When I am "going crazy" nobody likes or listens to my points. I think i'm just going to start randomly voting for people and making posts like, "Dat gui soo scummy. Weird post. I am towniest town evar." I should also probably make sure every other post is mine and no longer than a line or two. I should also treat the thread like twitter: no posts longer than 140 characters. Like this game is pretty ridiculous when we can't lynch someone who doesn't bother to read or think about the game, who adds nothing to it, etc. Like honestly Hapa, can you think of one useful post that Scumeling has made? Any single one. Because when you can't, I don't get why you think his 11 page filter makes him town when he's proven that filter length is in no way alignment indicative for him.
I haven't seen the non-crazy side of you this game yet.
You started off fake-claiming vigi to everyone who could hear you, then latched on to tunnel the most spammy and poster in the thread. I've taken your cases seriously, and I've spent more time looking at Steveling's past games than I should have, thinking that I must have missed something about his play. However your case at-best says that he's null. At worst, it's seething with confirmation bias against an obvious townie. I believe it's the latter.
And goddamnit it's frustrating to have this same argument with you over and over again. Because...
a) You insist on pushing your cases in the most dickish way possible, immediately dismissing anyone who disagrees with you.
b) The language of your cases shows very *obvious* confirmation bias - like ffs you're calling the freggin guy "scumeling."
c) You refuse to do ANYTHING other than tunnel a guy into the ground. Like hell, give me thoughts on another of the wagons or something. Many players have taken their time to talk about Steveling, and you refuse to return the favor and contribute to town discussion.
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Blazinghand isn't worth a lynch. He's someone who should be shot tonight.
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On May 22 2014 16:50 geript wrote:
Perhaps you've missed that I too liked Tambo. I just haven't been beating that drum because well, I don't think I need to. I haven't hated Austin's push on Layabout; his reads were like complete disconnects from the actual thread and so freaking weird I decided to troll Scumeling with them. Or how about idk like Yellow and some of the other players I bothered to read last night. like Ritoky a lot of people are talking about, I thought he was town last night. HF probably town. Marv acting strange imo; like his short filter length combined with his lack of funny combined with me not loving the major things he's pushed have really irked me. Like Layabout and tambo aren't bad shots. But between the ridiculous amount of spam and stupidity we get from Scumeling, I don't even fucking care what his alignment is at this point. He looks super scummy and he's completely worthless as far as getting ANY information. I say get him out early instead of late. Hell Slam is not town. Like he's clearly not town. Maybe there's some theoretical he's about to lose his job/life/everything/get kicked out of his home/etc. shit going on, but this is so far from town slam it's not even funny. Like Kush has trouble reading him, but he flat out agrees with me which should be like warning signs since he's played a decent amount with him on OMGUS. Hell Fool was even all like, "Damn those are some really good points but IDFK shit about how to read Slam." Hell I've commented numerous times about how fucking odd BH is being. He hasn't pushed a single reasonable read; I'd have to double check but at no point is BH trying to policy lynch me. He think I could actually be scum; I don't see any world where town BH could even possibly think that. Plus, him being as decent a player as he is and only pushing and spewing complete crap about RNG for day 1 is and should be a huge red flag. But everyone's giving him a free pass for it. Like it's inane.
Thank you. It would have been great if you were willing to voice said opinions while these things were being discussed.
Like you think I push in the most assholey/dickish manner. Geez like I try to tone it back, but shit. Like the more I get ignored, the more I'm going to head towards being louder and more dickish. I can be a confident, cocky arrogant son of a bitch. I'm also very good even if you think the "oats whisperer is just trash."
It's not really the town's job to learn how to deftly handle your ego. If you're being ignored, turning up the volume on your behavior clearly won't do anything. There's something very clearly wrong with your approach, and you need to change it.
Like I don't see how you can pass off Scumeling's super weird back and forth stances on me, BH, HF, Cav, others. Like it's so completely non-sensical it blows my mind ever time I read his filter. For me there's a huge difference between a towny living/posting in the moment and a scum just posting whatever because no one reads it.
But this is EXACTLY what makes him town! You are 100% correct that it makes no sense. All his reactions are emotional, spazzy, and off the wall. But very simply, scum rarely (pretty much never) act that recklessly! It's a sign that someone is posting everything that comes to his mind, and that he's not trying to hide anything.
I don't like his play, and I agree that 95% of his filter is useless spam. However being useless/spammy doesn't make someone scum. If you consider the motivations for why he's posting the way he is, and the mentality behind his posts, it's really really townie.
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Also Geript, can you go ahead and elaborate on Slam a bit? I agree the first part of his posting was fairly off, but the 2nd half of his filter seems more town-Slam like. What do you make of his more recent posting?
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On May 22 2014 15:13 mattisfoolish wrote:
Mattchew would like everyone to know that Kush is mafia and we should be lynching his ass.
I also want to hear more about this.
##Foolishness Read: Kushm4sta
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Let's just agree to disagree, but I do want to address your main argument so atleast you know where I'm coming from on this:
On May 22 2014 17:05 geript wrote:He doesn't care whatsoever about what he posts this game. That is distinctly different from what I saw from him in Glory. Can you at least understand that point?
But that's the thing though - reading Cell, it seems like he does care what he posts. His posting looks much more deliberate and purposeful, and that's from one of his mafia games.
Basically this game, he's taking the activity levels, lacking-of-giving-a-shit, omgus'ing, and spam, and cranking it up to 11. That's different (and more extreme) than in both his past town and mafia games, however the sheer extremity of his play makes this deviation much more likely to come from a town mindset.
Anyway, let's talk about Slam, because I think you might have a case with him.
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Erg you know what I'll have to get to Slam tomorrow. Apparently I hard defended Steveling until 4am. Geezus.
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On May 23 2014 00:45 mtamburini wrote:
Fuck me i gotta read 50 pages since I was last online how the fuck did I get put up for a lynch!
I'd like your explanation to this:
On May 21 2014 12:39 mtamburini wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 21 2014 11:45 Cephiro wrote:First up, the thoughts behind my questioning. While initially reading the thread I noticed 27ninja is a very cooperative person. Which is why I started the whole exchange with her. Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 06:52 27ninjabunnies wrote:
If I'm avoiding your question, it's because I have a pretty good damn reason as to why.
But because you are being persistant, the ones I have my eye on are Steveling, WaveofShadow and Tehpoofter.
She takes part in the discussion a lot and actively, aiming to contribute (or look like contributing.) Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 07:30 27ninjabunnies wrote:On May 21 2014 07:28 jampidampi wrote:
Before I continue, were you annoyed with my guestions? No, questions are good. They get reads. Reads are good. So the questions were not annoying. I was more annoyed by the fact you said I was avoiding what you were asking. I think I had made it clear as to why. But please continue. I want to hear more. Her intention is to try and play as honestly as possible. Which again, is not a bad thing from a town perspective, but if you roll scum and try to play with the least amount of lies possible, it will be hard. The point of interest here is her admitting her annoyance to being called out on her play. She encourages others to share the reasons on hers, yet withholds her own for "reasons", are excused as: Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 06:52 27ninjabunnies wrote:
But this doesn't necessarily mean they are scum. I rather read more of their play and interactions before I straight out call someone mafia. The majority of these people I haven't played with, and this is my second forum game.
If I don't have logic behind my reads, where does that put me? As a freaking town more likely to get mislynched.
So hold your horses, let me get my reads, and then we'll talk. While I definitely agree with the logic behind it, her reasoning doesn't seem sincere. It's as if she wants to put content into the thread, but avoid (for now), making any decisions that may come to haunt her play later. Specifically: She doesn't want to be read as scum. Obviously, no town player does, but her play is (even self-admittingly) aimed at not being read as scum. Even if you are read as scum as a townie, it doesn't mean you can't manage to prove your town-ness. Surely, it's an uphill battle, but for someone putting as much effort as her in the game seems unlikely to be _that_ scared of being a misread as a town. Rather, I feel the fear comes from other players correctly reading her as scum. Analysis break: My questions, the reasons behind it, and my conclusions of her replies. Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 10:28 27ninjabunnies wrote:On May 21 2014 10:27 Cephiro wrote:
Confirming one thing, are you asking for my reasons as for:
1) Why I'm reading you as mafia?
2) Why I'm voting on you? Well I assume you are voting me because you are reading me as mafia. So, why are you reading me as mafia? The first exchange. My question here aims at finding the natural level of her thought process. It may not be the best comparison, but think about chess. What I'm aiming to find here is whether she thinks about: 1) The current move 2) The reasons behind the current move 3) The follow-up to the current move Or a multitude of the above. As you can see, she instantly jumps into an assumption that I vote her because I read her as mafia. She doesn't take her thought process further (into different possibilities), into questions such as: "Would he vote for me for a reason other than suspecting me as mafia?" Instead, she takes it for granted that I suspect her to be mafia. It fits well with her wanting to play as honestly as possible, trying not to doubt the claims of others. This I feel is a trait belonging to the person. So here I establish the fact that she doesn't think things ahead. Her thought process is not zero though, but considering the current step with the information given to her comes more naturally. (There are people who naturally start thinking multiple steps ahead.) Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 10:46 27ninjabunnies wrote:On May 21 2014 10:39 Cephiro wrote:
I will have to respond to your question with another to stay true to my motives.
If I didn't consider you as mafia, why would I be voting for you?
Even if my replies seem very off to you, please do respond. You're under evaluation. If you don't consider me as mafia, you shouldn't be voting me. The only reason outside of you considering me as mafia for why you would vote for me is this: you want to get a read on me via my reactions to your voting on me to see if I react poorly or more town favored. This is only used if you don't have a read on me from what I've previously posted. This can also lead to reads from other people if they begin questioning you or agreeing with you. So again, why are you reading me as mafia? Here is my followup. My question is intentionally aimed to hint at a possibility of thinking outside the box. As I came into the conclusion that she doesn't naturally by instinct start thinking things too many steps ahead, I wanted to see the reaction that would come after hinted towards doing such. Her response is quite interesting. She does correctly analyze on scenario, that is, if I didn't have a proper read and wanted to gain more information on her. There are many others she does not think about however. What I'm most interested in, is this crucial miss: She does not at all consider a possibility where I am scum. Ding ding, alarm bells anyone? Note how she points out that if I don't really consider her as mafia, I shouldn't be voting for her. Yet at the end of her post, she asks why I'm reading her as mafia. This means that she thinks (knows?) of me being a town player suspecting her, rather than any other possibility. Why could I not be a scum player trying to start a wagon on her? She doesn't even go through this option at all, even after being hinted to think outside the box. It's as if she knows I'm town. That's not possible unless she's scum. On to my third question: Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 11:08 27ninjabunnies wrote:On May 21 2014 10:54 Cephiro wrote:
One last question before I will answer your question.
I already know you read me as town. If you had a strong scumread on me however, would you go all-out to make me the lynch of the day right away? I like how confident you are in yourself. As for reading you as town, that's yet to be determined. If I had a strong scumread on you, yes, I would probably push on you to get you lynched. As for right away, it depends. If I think I can have support, I'll push right away. If I don't think I'll have any support, I'd need t find evidence that can prove or atleast put into speculation that you are mafia. So, your answer? This question was mainly to confirm. I was fairly certain that she does not intentionally downplay her ability to mislead her opponent. Combined with the logical deduction of her naturally not thinking ahead, and with her honest tendency to answer questions, I have no reason to believe she'd be lying about this one either. It would be possible to downplay or not reveal your scumread to try and trap a person into a situation which essentially confirms them as scum to other players, or many shenanigans of the kind. Her response however is strictly related to her own confidence about her read. If she's sure about her read, she'll go for it (no downplaying). If she's unsure, she'll work to be able to trust her read enough to convince others. (Upping her own play.) With this I come into the conclusion that she is not downplaying her abilities when responding to others, or in any questions that she replied to me. This is exactly why I consider the 2nd question where she does NOT EVEN CONSIDER ME AS POSSIBLE SCUM extremely alarming. Also take in consideration how interested in she is in the reasons why I suspect her to be mafia. She doesn't just ignore and wait for me to actually provide something, but she actively asks for it again and again. If not combined with the above, I would see this as a townie trait, but I feel she is trying to get to know her mistakes/flaws in early play so she doesn't make the same mistakes later on. TLDR: 1) Is afraid of being seen as scum 2) Extremely co-operative due to not wanting to be looked upon badly, refer to point 1. 3) Ignores the possibility of the player questioning her being scum. 4) When suspected, wants to know the flaws in her play to not repeat the mistake later Like literally, for one moment she doesn't think I could be scum trying to push her for mislynch. 27ninjabunnies is mafia, and needs to be lynched. My vote stays where it is. Opinions? Goddamn bunnies back to scummy now, I need you to pretend your formaled and defend yourself. He brings up all the points I wanted to kill yellow in other game. Do I need to claim Bird Jesus again and say im going to shoot you and see if I get roleblocked?
Regarding the bolded, Yell0w flipped town in the game in question - how does it make sense for you to want to kill bunnies for those reasons?
Also, your post here gives absolutely no indication that you actually read or thought about Cephrio's case, which just rubs me all sorts of wrong ways.
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On May 23 2014 00:53 mtamburini wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 23 2014 00:51 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 00:45 mtamburini wrote:
Fuck me i gotta read 50 pages since I was last online how the fuck did I get put up for a lynch!
I'd like your explanation to this: Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 12:39 mtamburini wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 21 2014 11:45 Cephiro wrote:First up, the thoughts behind my questioning. While initially reading the thread I noticed 27ninja is a very cooperative person. Which is why I started the whole exchange with her. Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 06:52 27ninjabunnies wrote:
If I'm avoiding your question, it's because I have a pretty good damn reason as to why.
But because you are being persistant, the ones I have my eye on are Steveling, WaveofShadow and Tehpoofter.
She takes part in the discussion a lot and actively, aiming to contribute (or look like contributing.) Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 07:30 27ninjabunnies wrote:On May 21 2014 07:28 jampidampi wrote:
Before I continue, were you annoyed with my guestions? No, questions are good. They get reads. Reads are good. So the questions were not annoying. I was more annoyed by the fact you said I was avoiding what you were asking. I think I had made it clear as to why. But please continue. I want to hear more. Her intention is to try and play as honestly as possible. Which again, is not a bad thing from a town perspective, but if you roll scum and try to play with the least amount of lies possible, it will be hard. The point of interest here is her admitting her annoyance to being called out on her play. She encourages others to share the reasons on hers, yet withholds her own for "reasons", are excused as: Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 06:52 27ninjabunnies wrote:
But this doesn't necessarily mean they are scum. I rather read more of their play and interactions before I straight out call someone mafia. The majority of these people I haven't played with, and this is my second forum game.
If I don't have logic behind my reads, where does that put me? As a freaking town more likely to get mislynched.
So hold your horses, let me get my reads, and then we'll talk. While I definitely agree with the logic behind it, her reasoning doesn't seem sincere. It's as if she wants to put content into the thread, but avoid (for now), making any decisions that may come to haunt her play later. Specifically: She doesn't want to be read as scum. Obviously, no town player does, but her play is (even self-admittingly) aimed at not being read as scum. Even if you are read as scum as a townie, it doesn't mean you can't manage to prove your town-ness. Surely, it's an uphill battle, but for someone putting as much effort as her in the game seems unlikely to be _that_ scared of being a misread as a town. Rather, I feel the fear comes from other players correctly reading her as scum. Analysis break: My questions, the reasons behind it, and my conclusions of her replies. Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 10:28 27ninjabunnies wrote:On May 21 2014 10:27 Cephiro wrote:
Confirming one thing, are you asking for my reasons as for:
1) Why I'm reading you as mafia?
2) Why I'm voting on you? Well I assume you are voting me because you are reading me as mafia. So, why are you reading me as mafia? The first exchange. My question here aims at finding the natural level of her thought process. It may not be the best comparison, but think about chess. What I'm aiming to find here is whether she thinks about: 1) The current move 2) The reasons behind the current move 3) The follow-up to the current move Or a multitude of the above. As you can see, she instantly jumps into an assumption that I vote her because I read her as mafia. She doesn't take her thought process further (into different possibilities), into questions such as: "Would he vote for me for a reason other than suspecting me as mafia?" Instead, she takes it for granted that I suspect her to be mafia. It fits well with her wanting to play as honestly as possible, trying not to doubt the claims of others. This I feel is a trait belonging to the person. So here I establish the fact that she doesn't think things ahead. Her thought process is not zero though, but considering the current step with the information given to her comes more naturally. (There are people who naturally start thinking multiple steps ahead.) Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 10:46 27ninjabunnies wrote:On May 21 2014 10:39 Cephiro wrote:
I will have to respond to your question with another to stay true to my motives.
If I didn't consider you as mafia, why would I be voting for you?
Even if my replies seem very off to you, please do respond. You're under evaluation. If you don't consider me as mafia, you shouldn't be voting me. The only reason outside of you considering me as mafia for why you would vote for me is this: you want to get a read on me via my reactions to your voting on me to see if I react poorly or more town favored. This is only used if you don't have a read on me from what I've previously posted. This can also lead to reads from other people if they begin questioning you or agreeing with you. So again, why are you reading me as mafia? Here is my followup. My question is intentionally aimed to hint at a possibility of thinking outside the box. As I came into the conclusion that she doesn't naturally by instinct start thinking things too many steps ahead, I wanted to see the reaction that would come after hinted towards doing such. Her response is quite interesting. She does correctly analyze on scenario, that is, if I didn't have a proper read and wanted to gain more information on her. There are many others she does not think about however. What I'm most interested in, is this crucial miss: She does not at all consider a possibility where I am scum. Ding ding, alarm bells anyone? Note how she points out that if I don't really consider her as mafia, I shouldn't be voting for her. Yet at the end of her post, she asks why I'm reading her as mafia. This means that she thinks (knows?) of me being a town player suspecting her, rather than any other possibility. Why could I not be a scum player trying to start a wagon on her? She doesn't even go through this option at all, even after being hinted to think outside the box. It's as if she knows I'm town. That's not possible unless she's scum. On to my third question: Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 11:08 27ninjabunnies wrote:On May 21 2014 10:54 Cephiro wrote:
One last question before I will answer your question.
I already know you read me as town. If you had a strong scumread on me however, would you go all-out to make me the lynch of the day right away? I like how confident you are in yourself. As for reading you as town, that's yet to be determined. If I had a strong scumread on you, yes, I would probably push on you to get you lynched. As for right away, it depends. If I think I can have support, I'll push right away. If I don't think I'll have any support, I'd need t find evidence that can prove or atleast put into speculation that you are mafia. So, your answer? This question was mainly to confirm. I was fairly certain that she does not intentionally downplay her ability to mislead her opponent. Combined with the logical deduction of her naturally not thinking ahead, and with her honest tendency to answer questions, I have no reason to believe she'd be lying about this one either. It would be possible to downplay or not reveal your scumread to try and trap a person into a situation which essentially confirms them as scum to other players, or many shenanigans of the kind. Her response however is strictly related to her own confidence about her read. If she's sure about her read, she'll go for it (no downplaying). If she's unsure, she'll work to be able to trust her read enough to convince others. (Upping her own play.) With this I come into the conclusion that she is not downplaying her abilities when responding to others, or in any questions that she replied to me. This is exactly why I consider the 2nd question where she does NOT EVEN CONSIDER ME AS POSSIBLE SCUM extremely alarming. Also take in consideration how interested in she is in the reasons why I suspect her to be mafia. She doesn't just ignore and wait for me to actually provide something, but she actively asks for it again and again. If not combined with the above, I would see this as a townie trait, but I feel she is trying to get to know her mistakes/flaws in early play so she doesn't make the same mistakes later on. TLDR: 1) Is afraid of being seen as scum 2) Extremely co-operative due to not wanting to be looked upon badly, refer to point 1. 3) Ignores the possibility of the player questioning her being scum. 4) When suspected, wants to know the flaws in her play to not repeat the mistake later Like literally, for one moment she doesn't think I could be scum trying to push her for mislynch. 27ninjabunnies is mafia, and needs to be lynched. My vote stays where it is. Opinions? Goddamn bunnies back to scummy now, I need you to pretend your formaled and defend yourself. He brings up all the points I wanted to kill yellow in other game. Do I need to claim Bird Jesus again and say im going to shoot you and see if I get roleblocked? Regarding the bolded, Yell0w flipped town in the game in question - how does it make sense for you to want to kill bunnies for those reasons? Also, your post here gives absolutely no indication that you actually read or thought about Cephrio's case, which just rubs me all sorts of wrong ways. For me it felt like bunnies was contradicting herself from the way she was putting pressure on yellow on that game. Her play style from that game to this game looks different to me and the way she conducted herself early on this game made me want to question and put pressure on her.
You didn't really answer either of my questions. I know the reason for your bunnies reads.
What I want to know is...
a) Why you claim that bunnies is scummy for reasons you thought that yell0w was scummy in the other game, despite yell0w being town in said game, and...
b) Why there's nothing in your filter that indicates that you even read Cephiro's case. It seems as if you saw a giant post on bunnies and mindlessly sheeped it without even considering the contents.
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On May 23 2014 00:58 Alakaslam wrote:
Hey hapa- I know you talk to tamburini right now but what do you think of BH?
My read on him is sorta weird. Normally I'd read these antics by BH (Claiming Issac, Obsessed with RNG lynch, Stubborn Uselessness, etc) as townie. It's a sign he doesn't care much for his reputation, he's not pushing any visible objectives (which he does as mafia), and I've seem him do similar things in many of his town games (and none of his mafia games).
While I'd read him as town in a more traditional setup, this really isn't one. I can see BH's behavior as being part of one of various factions, and I wouldn't mind seeing him dispatched with a bullet tonight.
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On May 23 2014 01:08 mtamburini wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 23 2014 00:57 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 00:53 mtamburini wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 23 2014 00:51 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 00:45 mtamburini wrote:
Fuck me i gotta read 50 pages since I was last online how the fuck did I get put up for a lynch!
I'd like your explanation to this: Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 12:39 mtamburini wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 21 2014 11:45 Cephiro wrote:First up, the thoughts behind my questioning. While initially reading the thread I noticed 27ninja is a very cooperative person. Which is why I started the whole exchange with her. Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 06:52 27ninjabunnies wrote:
If I'm avoiding your question, it's because I have a pretty good damn reason as to why.
But because you are being persistant, the ones I have my eye on are Steveling, WaveofShadow and Tehpoofter.
She takes part in the discussion a lot and actively, aiming to contribute (or look like contributing.) Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 07:30 27ninjabunnies wrote:On May 21 2014 07:28 jampidampi wrote:
Before I continue, were you annoyed with my guestions? No, questions are good. They get reads. Reads are good. So the questions were not annoying. I was more annoyed by the fact you said I was avoiding what you were asking. I think I had made it clear as to why. But please continue. I want to hear more. Her intention is to try and play as honestly as possible. Which again, is not a bad thing from a town perspective, but if you roll scum and try to play with the least amount of lies possible, it will be hard. The point of interest here is her admitting her annoyance to being called out on her play. She encourages others to share the reasons on hers, yet withholds her own for "reasons", are excused as: Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 06:52 27ninjabunnies wrote:
But this doesn't necessarily mean they are scum. I rather read more of their play and interactions before I straight out call someone mafia. The majority of these people I haven't played with, and this is my second forum game.
If I don't have logic behind my reads, where does that put me? As a freaking town more likely to get mislynched.
So hold your horses, let me get my reads, and then we'll talk. While I definitely agree with the logic behind it, her reasoning doesn't seem sincere. It's as if she wants to put content into the thread, but avoid (for now), making any decisions that may come to haunt her play later. Specifically: She doesn't want to be read as scum. Obviously, no town player does, but her play is (even self-admittingly) aimed at not being read as scum. Even if you are read as scum as a townie, it doesn't mean you can't manage to prove your town-ness. Surely, it's an uphill battle, but for someone putting as much effort as her in the game seems unlikely to be _that_ scared of being a misread as a town. Rather, I feel the fear comes from other players correctly reading her as scum. Analysis break: My questions, the reasons behind it, and my conclusions of her replies. Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 10:28 27ninjabunnies wrote:On May 21 2014 10:27 Cephiro wrote:
Confirming one thing, are you asking for my reasons as for:
1) Why I'm reading you as mafia?
2) Why I'm voting on you? Well I assume you are voting me because you are reading me as mafia. So, why are you reading me as mafia? The first exchange. My question here aims at finding the natural level of her thought process. It may not be the best comparison, but think about chess. What I'm aiming to find here is whether she thinks about: 1) The current move 2) The reasons behind the current move 3) The follow-up to the current move Or a multitude of the above. As you can see, she instantly jumps into an assumption that I vote her because I read her as mafia. She doesn't take her thought process further (into different possibilities), into questions such as: "Would he vote for me for a reason other than suspecting me as mafia?" Instead, she takes it for granted that I suspect her to be mafia. It fits well with her wanting to play as honestly as possible, trying not to doubt the claims of others. This I feel is a trait belonging to the person. So here I establish the fact that she doesn't think things ahead. Her thought process is not zero though, but considering the current step with the information given to her comes more naturally. (There are people who naturally start thinking multiple steps ahead.) Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 10:46 27ninjabunnies wrote:On May 21 2014 10:39 Cephiro wrote:
I will have to respond to your question with another to stay true to my motives.
If I didn't consider you as mafia, why would I be voting for you?
Even if my replies seem very off to you, please do respond. You're under evaluation. If you don't consider me as mafia, you shouldn't be voting me. The only reason outside of you considering me as mafia for why you would vote for me is this: you want to get a read on me via my reactions to your voting on me to see if I react poorly or more town favored. This is only used if you don't have a read on me from what I've previously posted. This can also lead to reads from other people if they begin questioning you or agreeing with you. So again, why are you reading me as mafia? Here is my followup. My question is intentionally aimed to hint at a possibility of thinking outside the box. As I came into the conclusion that she doesn't naturally by instinct start thinking things too many steps ahead, I wanted to see the reaction that would come after hinted towards doing such. Her response is quite interesting. She does correctly analyze on scenario, that is, if I didn't have a proper read and wanted to gain more information on her. There are many others she does not think about however. What I'm most interested in, is this crucial miss: She does not at all consider a possibility where I am scum. Ding ding, alarm bells anyone? Note how she points out that if I don't really consider her as mafia, I shouldn't be voting for her. Yet at the end of her post, she asks why I'm reading her as mafia. This means that she thinks (knows?) of me being a town player suspecting her, rather than any other possibility. Why could I not be a scum player trying to start a wagon on her? She doesn't even go through this option at all, even after being hinted to think outside the box. It's as if she knows I'm town. That's not possible unless she's scum. On to my third question: Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 11:08 27ninjabunnies wrote:On May 21 2014 10:54 Cephiro wrote:
One last question before I will answer your question.
I already know you read me as town. If you had a strong scumread on me however, would you go all-out to make me the lynch of the day right away? I like how confident you are in yourself. As for reading you as town, that's yet to be determined. If I had a strong scumread on you, yes, I would probably push on you to get you lynched. As for right away, it depends. If I think I can have support, I'll push right away. If I don't think I'll have any support, I'd need t find evidence that can prove or atleast put into speculation that you are mafia. So, your answer? This question was mainly to confirm. I was fairly certain that she does not intentionally downplay her ability to mislead her opponent. Combined with the logical deduction of her naturally not thinking ahead, and with her honest tendency to answer questions, I have no reason to believe she'd be lying about this one either. It would be possible to downplay or not reveal your scumread to try and trap a person into a situation which essentially confirms them as scum to other players, or many shenanigans of the kind. Her response however is strictly related to her own confidence about her read. If she's sure about her read, she'll go for it (no downplaying). If she's unsure, she'll work to be able to trust her read enough to convince others. (Upping her own play.) With this I come into the conclusion that she is not downplaying her abilities when responding to others, or in any questions that she replied to me. This is exactly why I consider the 2nd question where she does NOT EVEN CONSIDER ME AS POSSIBLE SCUM extremely alarming. Also take in consideration how interested in she is in the reasons why I suspect her to be mafia. She doesn't just ignore and wait for me to actually provide something, but she actively asks for it again and again. If not combined with the above, I would see this as a townie trait, but I feel she is trying to get to know her mistakes/flaws in early play so she doesn't make the same mistakes later on. TLDR: 1) Is afraid of being seen as scum 2) Extremely co-operative due to not wanting to be looked upon badly, refer to point 1. 3) Ignores the possibility of the player questioning her being scum. 4) When suspected, wants to know the flaws in her play to not repeat the mistake later Like literally, for one moment she doesn't think I could be scum trying to push her for mislynch. 27ninjabunnies is mafia, and needs to be lynched. My vote stays where it is. Opinions? Goddamn bunnies back to scummy now, I need you to pretend your formaled and defend yourself. He brings up all the points I wanted to kill yellow in other game. Do I need to claim Bird Jesus again and say im going to shoot you and see if I get roleblocked? Regarding the bolded, Yell0w flipped town in the game in question - how does it make sense for you to want to kill bunnies for those reasons? Also, your post here gives absolutely no indication that you actually read or thought about Cephrio's case, which just rubs me all sorts of wrong ways. For me it felt like bunnies was contradicting herself from the way she was putting pressure on yellow on that game. Her play style from that game to this game looks different to me and the way she conducted herself early on this game made me want to question and put pressure on her. You didn't really answer either of my questions. I know the reason for your bunnies reads. What I want to know is... a) Why you claim that bunnies is scummy for reasons you thought that yell0w was scummy in the other game, despite yell0w being town in said game, and... b) Why there's nothing in your filter that indicates that you even read Cephiro's case. It seems as if you saw a giant post on bunnies and mindlessly sheeped it without even considering the contents. A) I know bunnies probably the mostest out of everyone here so my read on her goes back to more games then just the last one. Yellow and bunnies are different players. Because yellow did something scummy in one game and someone else does the same thing does not imply that the new person is also town. What Im trying to say is P does not always imply Q, having know bunnies and her playstyle and not know yellows I think bunnies is more likely scum for her reactions then yellows reactions in that game. B) I read his post, im going to have to re read it again but Im pretty sure I quoted it and said something along the lines of Im gonna claim bird jesus and shoot you in the night.
Ok I have no idea what you mean by the bolded.
My reads are vauge and inconclusive, with day 1 starts I do not have any information to go on so I have to try and figure shit out on my own until Power Roles come out with useful information and then I can apply my reads to them and look back at peoples filters as days go on.
Im not a strong day1 player which is my downfall and gets me mislynched a lot because I like posting long as posts with lots of quotes and small notes on them because I find that much more efficient then posting 100 smaller posts.
Regarding your Day 1 play, one thing that makes me fairly suspicious of you was your entirely different approach to Day 1 in the recently concluded newbie game. In that game, you came out extremely confident with very straightforward pressure/reads. This is in complete contrast to this game, where your approach has reflected your "vague and inconclusive" self-descriptor.
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On May 23 2014 01:17 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 01:03 Hapahauli wrote:On May 23 2014 00:58 Alakaslam wrote:
Hey hapa- I know you talk to tamburini right now but what do you think of BH? My read on him is sorta weird. Normally I'd read these antics by BH (Claiming Issac, Obsessed with RNG lynch, Stubborn Uselessness, etc) as townie. It's a sign he doesn't care much for his reputation, he's not pushing any visible objectives (which he does as mafia), and I've seem him do similar things in many of his town games (and none of his mafia games). While I'd read him as town in a more traditional setup, this really isn't one. I can see BH's behavior as being part of one of various factions, and I wouldn't mind seeing him dispatched with a bullet tonight. Hazard a guess at my role? I happen to have strong reason to think BH is town, Hapa.
Cool - go ahead and tell me that reason.
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##Unvote
I'm starting to think I missed on tambo. Going to re-read and re-evaluate.
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On May 23 2014 01:25 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 01:21 Alakaslam wrote:On May 23 2014 01:18 geript wrote:On May 23 2014 01:16 mtamburini wrote:On May 23 2014 01:13 Koshi wrote:On May 23 2014 01:12 mtamburini wrote:On May 23 2014 01:05 Koshi wrote:On May 23 2014 01:04 mtamburini wrote:On May 23 2014 00:49 Xatalos wrote:On May 23 2014 00:45 mtamburini wrote:
Fuck me i gotta read 50 pages since I was last online how the fuck did I get put up for a lynch!
Now share your thoughts as much as you can (focusing on scumreads preferably). Mostly the case on you is about being AFK + having too vague/inconclusive reads. Me being AFK imo is not a good reason to cast a vote on someone currently working 2 jobs and I do not get an internet connection at either of them anymore, however i agree on the latter part. My reads are vauge and inconclusive, with day 1 starts I do not have any information to go on so I have to try and figure shit out on my own until Power Roles come out with useful information and then I can apply my reads to them and look back at peoples filters as days go on. Im not a strong day1 player which is my downfall and gets me mislynched a lot because I like posting long as posts with lots of quotes and small notes on them because I find that much more efficient then posting 100 smaller posts. There were a couple players who commented on my long post saying TLDR; which i find suspicious. I feel like mafia would probably be more likely to skip over it if there name was not mentioned in that post. At the same time the people that said my long post was bs (Alakazam was one of the first few) are looking for an easy target to ML day 1. I specifically bring up alakazam because he was questioned by someone about something ( I believe I made a post already calling him out for what I am about to say) and the first thing he responded back was sheeping a read that that person had just finished saying about me doing that long ass post. Not sure if enough people are going to be around closer to deadline so I might be the lynch today so I will leave some parting words if this is the case. With a game with 5 factions (town + 4 others) Mafia also have to scum hunt as well. Looking further down the road you will have to look for connections between people to link them to one faction (doesnt mean they are scum but if one flips scum someone who is defending them may most likely be in same faction) mtamburiniWhat did you think about Alakaslam and BH claiming blue? They just claimed Blue without a specific role? I would be more inclined to think BH would be more likely a role candidate and alakaslam trying to save his ass from ebing shot by geript LOL. To comment on BH behaviour early game being all aggro and yelling and shit wiht the RNG. He sees himself in a godlike light which shows a lot of confidence in his abilities to scumhunt and win games as either allignemnt. His play reminds me of a mafia game I played on another site where I went super aggro and did the exact same thing he did (except I did not use RNG I used some other bs technique to get conversation started and start building connections) and I also was a Blue role. Start reading the thread bro. I wont finish 70 pages of thread in 4 hours The lady doth protest too much. She has a point though Maybe. I don't really get what Hapa sees.
Sees what?
##Summon Foolishness
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On May 23 2014 01:26 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 01:24 OnceKing wrote:On May 22 2014 22:50 kitaman27 wrote:
OnceKing is pretty vanilla so far. Possibly opportunistic on layabout and steve "scumslip". Would maybe settle on him if there isn't a better choice.
Trying to find an alternative wagon to tamburini so it isn't a blow out, but I've kinda skimmed passed the stuff on her in the meantime. Will probably take a closer look here next. if i'm vanilla then why would you pick me lol why not poof, you said he's had the holy trifecta of things scum say but you don't seem to be investigating that too much could lynch this guy ^
Yeah I wouldn't mind that. My initial two thoughts were him or Odin.
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On May 23 2014 01:28 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 01:26 Hapahauli wrote:On May 23 2014 01:25 geript wrote:On May 23 2014 01:21 Alakaslam wrote:On May 23 2014 01:18 geript wrote:On May 23 2014 01:16 mtamburini wrote:On May 23 2014 01:13 Koshi wrote:On May 23 2014 01:12 mtamburini wrote:On May 23 2014 01:05 Koshi wrote:On May 23 2014 01:04 mtamburini wrote:
[quote]
Me being AFK imo is not a good reason to cast a vote on someone currently working 2 jobs and I do not get an internet connection at either of them anymore, however i agree on the latter part.
My reads are vauge and inconclusive, with day 1 starts I do not have any information to go on so I have to try and figure shit out on my own until Power Roles come out with useful information and then I can apply my reads to them and look back at peoples filters as days go on.
Im not a strong day1 player which is my downfall and gets me mislynched a lot because I like posting long as posts with lots of quotes and small notes on them because I find that much more efficient then posting 100 smaller posts.
There were a couple players who commented on my long post saying TLDR; which i find suspicious. I feel like mafia would probably be more likely to skip over it if there name was not mentioned in that post.
At the same time the people that said my long post was bs (Alakazam was one of the first few) are looking for an easy target to ML day 1. I specifically bring up alakazam because he was questioned by someone about something ( I believe I made a post already calling him out for what I am about to say) and the first thing he responded back was sheeping a read that that person had just finished saying about me doing that long ass post.
Not sure if enough people are going to be around closer to deadline so I might be the lynch today so I will leave some parting words if this is the case.
With a game with 5 factions (town + 4 others) Mafia also have to scum hunt as well. Looking further down the road you will have to look for connections between people to link them to one faction (doesnt mean they are scum but if one flips scum someone who is defending them may most likely be in same faction)
mtamburiniWhat did you think about Alakaslam and BH claiming blue? They just claimed Blue without a specific role? I would be more inclined to think BH would be more likely a role candidate and alakaslam trying to save his ass from ebing shot by geript LOL. To comment on BH behaviour early game being all aggro and yelling and shit wiht the RNG. He sees himself in a godlike light which shows a lot of confidence in his abilities to scumhunt and win games as either allignemnt. His play reminds me of a mafia game I played on another site where I went super aggro and did the exact same thing he did (except I did not use RNG I used some other bs technique to get conversation started and start building connections) and I also was a Blue role. Start reading the thread bro. I wont finish 70 pages of thread in 4 hours The lady doth protest too much. She has a point though Maybe. I don't really get what Hapa sees. Sees what? ##Summon Foolishness What makes you think he's a miss. But I've been up for idk 20 hours and don't really care right now.
He/she (I DON'T FREGGIN KNOW) has reasonable explanations for the things I found him/her (GODDAMNIT) suspicious about. This recent burst of posting also seems pretty direct and open, and seems more townie given that tambo is a newer forum player.
All and all, I don't my case is very valid given tambo's recent replies. At best tambo's null.
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Also marv, what do you make of tambo, and talk to me specifically about OnceKing (and anyone else you'd consider lynching). I have to leave on a roadtrip in an hour, so unfortunately I'm not blessed with much time today.
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On May 23 2014 01:31 OnceKing wrote:
also i could buy a ritoky lynch over a layabout lynch atm
or valenius
Cool. Why?
I'm sorta thinking about lynching you right now to be honest.
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On May 23 2014 01:37 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 01:32 Hapahauli wrote:
Also marv, what do you make of tambo, and talk to me specifically about OnceKing (and anyone else you'd consider lynching). I have to leave on a roadtrip in an hour, so unfortunately I'm not blessed with much time today. I'm kinda trusting what you're saying about tambo right now. my time is kinda limited this evening as well :/ Onceking just because of what kita said, a filter of a bunch of short posts and nothing, not particularly sure I like the "why me, why not this guy" which is why I said I could lynch him.
Read tambo's recent posts and tell me what you think. It doesn't take that much time.
Although the frustrating thing is that I have no idea if my heuristics for calling tambo town are even valid given the setup >>
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Mystermeat's meh. Not only is it a coinflip, but we're going to get absolutely nothing out of that lynch information-wise, so let's not do that.
I'm back to Valenius right now.
On May 23 2014 01:45 OnceKing wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 01:37 Hapahauli wrote:On May 23 2014 01:31 OnceKing wrote:
also i could buy a ritoky lynch over a layabout lynch atm
or valenius Cool. Why? I'm sorta thinking about lynching you right now to be honest. layabout actually pushing his scum read instead of just wasting time waffling about in his posts, ritoky doesn't valenius doesn't either but he's even worse because he hasn't got any reads other than town and null, there are just so many polarizing people in the thread i don't see how you can come away with nothing
This is a pretty good observation by OnceKing, and Valenius has slipped my mind for a while. Val really hasn't done much this game at all - a majority of his filter are short posts that have nothing to do with reads or scumhunting. A lot of +1's and idle questions. He does have one scum-hunting post...
On May 22 2014 04:15 Valenius wrote:Onegu, that's terrible; Really hope it get's better quickly. I'm not sure how many posts, and this applies for all of you 'vets', are serious and how many are little in jokes between yourselves.. so if I miss out something it's probably because i didnt want to make a read based on something that could be common in your games. Make sense? As always with me, i just read through filters. Backtracking thread is too hard. So.. + Show Spoiler +Yell0w.+ Show Spoiler +Despite how much everyone seems to hate the whole RNGesus plan, his initial post on it was solid. It's misguided in that it would require everyone to take part.. which won't happen; but the theory is sound. It's easy enough for someone to test everyone else's post to make sure there's no tomfoolery occurring. Any switches (early or late) would draw suspicion. Somebody pulled him up on his switch to BH's plan 'with no posts in between', but that was bullshit. He'd been shown how it wouldn't work, so his switch was logical.
His first big post mostly makes sense. I agree with his points on RNG not being totally alignment indicative, and for me it's probably more like 60% town indicative. With most of the players in here, I don't think experienced scum would have much trouble causing a mislynch on day1. RNG is imo more likely to hit them than a lynch through the normal course of play - Unless they made a monumental slip-up.
Summary: Probably Town, like his thought process. Dude, drop the RNG. I was a believer, but it's not going to happen. Again, the logic behind it was solid (imo - see above), as is the setup talk and effectiveness of the scummers. The wording of this post was a little bit off to me: + Show Spoiler +On May 21 2014 07:52 Blazinghand wrote:
Good point, also it doesn't matter, we need to kill them all. So are you on board, jampidampi? or are you busy thinking of another excuse not to lynch your scumbuddy odin? In the post he was replying to, i'd put the win condition was "Eliminate all Factions, which endanger town". The 'we need to kill them all' seems to have just ignored that. Not sure if slip, but thought i'd mention it.. 'when in Rome' and all. Overall: I don't like how you've continued pushing the RNG as it's getting to the stage where most are ignoring you, although If anything I think it makes you more town than scum at this point. You know what stop putting Vaseline in your car and diesel does not improve your lips. Neither does motor oil work for lubrication of human anatom-
Actually, I am unsure of that
Anyway dat GASOLINE more specific than PETROL bro
Putting plastic in the car or what?
Loo
Heheh
Alyoominnium
If course to you we like a-LOO-minnum
Seems reasonably in line with newbie games i've played/obs'd with him, although slightly
Odd post time: "All other factions are anti town. That's confirmed." - Forgive me if I missed the page, but where was this confirmed?
Your vote on Holyflare was about as useful as my vote on Koshi.
+e$ports 20 for the recent geript comment.
Summary: Stay vigilant sqrt, newbie bro. These guys will promise you the world, and just end up taking your bottle-cap collection. (Probably town, but a bit too easily swayed)
You could pretty much pull out in a black Ford Model 18 "V-8" (1932-1934)* and wave your tommy gun around and I still probably wouldn't lynch you today. You're a survivor Cav, I believe in you. * Thanks GQ slideshow Oh, actual 'analysis' time? + Show Spoiler +On May 21 2014 14:12 Cavalinho wrote:Because he's scum. And also because he's trying to hide and he's posting a lot of questions aimed at making people feel superior. Hence, he is a mafia trying to get people to ignore him and blend in. I pretty much fully disagree. Steveling's done anything but try and blend in. The lover's tiff between him and Holyflare is one of the more dominant things that have happened so far. Maybe people will laugh, and maybe I'm overestimating the ability of some of you regulars/overusing my newbie reads, but it doesn't seem massively scummy. You haven't defecated today. Summary: Pale Mafia. A light shade of pink. + Show Spoiler +On May 21 2014 06:39 27ninjabunnies wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 06:27 jampidampi wrote:On May 21 2014 06:21 27ninjabunnies wrote:
--
It's also obvious who are going to jump out in the front and try and lead town one way or another. We definitely have a mafia or two in the first couple of pages.
You sound confident, enough that I think you have your eye on someone already. Care to share as to who it may be? I may have my eye on a few people. From my experience, there are two type of mafia people: the lurkers, and the ones who like to ome out first day and take control of town. I'm focusing on the latter because they are the ones to likely talk more, you can easily find their slips (if any), and they are also more likely to last longer than the lurker mafia. I find the last sentence a little bit contradictory. If you assume that you're in a game with people who will catch slips most of the time, then surely the talkative slippy mafia wouldn't last longer than the lurkers due to the talkative slippy nature of themselves? I don't know, maybe it's just my interpretation of the line, and maybe im understating the {if any) part. + Show Spoiler +If I'm avoiding your question, it's because I have a pretty good damn reason as to why.
But because you are being persistant, the ones I have my eye on are Steveling, WaveofShadow and Tehpoofter. The fuck? It's early in the game, and there's pretty much 0 pressure on you to give out your reads to him. Saying you're then looking at them will surely change their behaviour, rendering the whole thing invalid? The whole post by matamburini is too big and had too many capitals, so I havent and probably wont read it.
You still have your vote on me, and i think you've spelled my name about 6 different ways. Apart from me, who do you think's scummy?
I don't have a clue what to expect from a 2-player player, but his post on how players enters the thread is alright. His quotes on jampidampi back this up. When the game started last night i couldnt really care, and i plan to return to that after this post for today. Previous newbie games i tried hard to analyse everything, and ended up being wrong and getting stressed, so it's carefree all the way for this game.
Erm, summary: Town. The heart post was funny, not much else in his filter. He hosted my first game, so I always thought he'd be super pro. Kita, warm my little heart and show me you're pro. I'm bored now and hungry and i suck at analysis and nobody will probably read it ::longpost:: and all. back to short-shitposting for now. I'll talk about others tomorrow.
...that doesn't really say much about anything. He calls Cav a "slight shade of pink", and that's the closest he gets to a scumread. Everything else is a bunch of town reads, null reads, or posed questions. I also really dont' like the last bit of this post...
I'm bored now and hungry and i suck at analysis and nobody will probably read it ::longpost:: and all. back to short-shitposting for now. I'll talk about others tomorrow.
... for a number of reasons. Lack of confidence, lack of willingness to do analysis, openly declares intentions to shitpost... meh.
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On May 23 2014 01:52 bkqyrldp wrote:
Can you cite the last time a person like that flipped mafia? He even blatantly states he will play his trademark lazy town and indeed does absolutely nothing afterwards, not even pretense.
I like you a lot right now.
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On May 23 2014 02:04 Xatalos wrote:
I think Valenius is a bit too obviously anti-town. He even claims that he's "going to shitpost" and then proceeds to do so. And he constantly complains and doesn't seem interested in scumhunting at all.
Now that I think about it, maybe he's just a bad scum player.
Yeah it's the seeming lack of interest and reluctance to contribute that does it for me. It's possible he's just some newbie with an extreme lack of self-confidence, but it's the apathy for analysis that makes it more likely for him to be scum IMO.
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Alright I'll be driving for the rest of today. I might be able to make a vote post on the road somewhere, but other than that, I'm pretty much done with posting/analysis until after the lynch deadline.
I think Valenius is our best option for today. Tambo's recent activity makes me far more hesitant about him. I can't say for sure if he's town, but he's atleast null, and there are better targets out there for today.
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Also before I forget...
On May 23 2014 01:59 kushm4sta wrote:
##unvote
##vote odin
Please explain this Kush.
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I'll consider switching to Odin depending on what Valenius comes up with in the next few hours. Can't do much on my phone, but I can and will be reading.
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On May 23 2014 03:11 Koshi wrote:
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Maybe BH isn't crazy.
BH confirmed not crazy.
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I want to hear something from Valenius before I change my vote. If I am changing, it will be to Odin though
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Hm. That lynch result was unfortunate. Though the good news is that we have a lot of material to work with - these crazy late vote swaps always generate good information.
I'll be reading the buildup to the lynch tomorrow, as I just drove 8 hours and I'm dead tired. My first instinct is to look into players on the Odin wagon that followed Blazinghand's RNG lynch as opposed to lynching Odin for actually being suspicious of him. Yell0w stuck with his early RNG vote on Odin despite having several other scum-reads in his filter. Alakaslam never mentioned a scum-read on Odin either (other the RNG stuff). Not sure if that's just Slam being Slam, but that's objectively pretty terrible.
Obviously there are more people to look into than the two I mentioned above - Cavalihno's case looks interesting at first glance, and I'll need to verify that myself after I get some sleep. Tambo essentially wasting his vote late in the cycle is also very bad.
Since several people expressed concern about my own actions during the lynch, I can't defend myself other than simply not being able to post while driving on a highway. My travel schedule today was terrible, and I really wish I could have been around for the deadline.
Instead, I had a very short time to get acquainted with BlazingHand's case, saw a bunch of reputable players follow it, and kinda just went with the flow. Given the result and hindsight, I very much regret how it played out, but there was very little I could do today to help it.
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Much townier than yesterday. His push on Odin was textbook town BH.
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On May 23 2014 13:57 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 13:18 Hapahauli wrote:
Hm. That lynch result was unfortunate. Though the good news is that we have a lot of material to work with - these crazy late vote swaps always generate good information.
I'll be reading the buildup to the lynch tomorrow, as I just drove 8 hours and I'm dead tired. My first instinct is to look into players on the Odin wagon that followed Blazinghand's RNG lynch as opposed to lynching Odin for actually being suspicious of him. Yell0w stuck with his early RNG vote on Odin despite having several other scum-reads in his filter. Alakaslam never mentioned a scum-read on Odin either (other the RNG stuff). Not sure if that's just Slam being Slam, but that's objectively pretty terrible.
Obviously there are more people to look into than the two I mentioned above - Cavalihno's case looks interesting at first glance, and I'll need to verify that myself after I get some sleep. Tambo essentially wasting his vote late in the cycle is also very bad.
Since several people expressed concern about my own actions during the lynch, I can't defend myself other than simply not being able to post while driving on a highway. My travel schedule today was terrible, and I really wish I could have been around for the deadline.
Instead, I had a very short time to get acquainted with BlazingHand's case, saw a bunch of reputable players follow it, and kinda just went with the flow. Given the result and hindsight, I very much regret how it played out, but there was very little I could do today to help it. can you name the reputable players without looking and also say if you think they are town this game
Marv/Kita/BH off the top of my head.
The thing is, it doesn't really matter if they're town. Given that there are multiple factions, it's highly likely that mafia and town can have similar objectives (lynching other factions). If you want my surface reads on them...
BH = Town
Kita = Null
Marv = Slight-Town
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Slam - if you're around, talk to me about the lynch yesterday. You seemed to be active the hours leading up to deadline, and you had your vote on Odin. Yet I can't find anywhere in your filter that you thought Odin was suspicious. The only mentions of Odin in your filter are towards the beginning (RNG lynch stuff).
Sticking with the RNG lynch all day (despite being quite active in thread) does not look very good.
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On May 23 2014 14:30 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 14:07 Hapahauli wrote:On May 23 2014 13:57 Holyflare wrote:On May 23 2014 13:18 Hapahauli wrote:
Hm. That lynch result was unfortunate. Though the good news is that we have a lot of material to work with - these crazy late vote swaps always generate good information.
I'll be reading the buildup to the lynch tomorrow, as I just drove 8 hours and I'm dead tired. My first instinct is to look into players on the Odin wagon that followed Blazinghand's RNG lynch as opposed to lynching Odin for actually being suspicious of him. Yell0w stuck with his early RNG vote on Odin despite having several other scum-reads in his filter. Alakaslam never mentioned a scum-read on Odin either (other the RNG stuff). Not sure if that's just Slam being Slam, but that's objectively pretty terrible.
Obviously there are more people to look into than the two I mentioned above - Cavalihno's case looks interesting at first glance, and I'll need to verify that myself after I get some sleep. Tambo essentially wasting his vote late in the cycle is also very bad.
Since several people expressed concern about my own actions during the lynch, I can't defend myself other than simply not being able to post while driving on a highway. My travel schedule today was terrible, and I really wish I could have been around for the deadline.
Instead, I had a very short time to get acquainted with BlazingHand's case, saw a bunch of reputable players follow it, and kinda just went with the flow. Given the result and hindsight, I very much regret how it played out, but there was very little I could do today to help it. can you name the reputable players without looking and also say if you think they are town this game Marv/Kita/BH off the top of my head. The thing is, it doesn't really matter if they're town. Given that there are multiple factions, it's highly likely that mafia and town can have similar objectives (lynching other factions). If you want my surface reads on them... BH = Town Kita = Null Marv = Slight-Town Of course it matters if they're town because you want to find not-town people and they could be pushing agendas as not town?? Are you solely saying that you followed them because their names were all up there and pretty like? Now that you know he was town do they look more suspicious to you for providing 0 reasoning for lynching odin? Kita doesn't even mention wanting to lynch odin at all afaik in his entire filter. Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 06:34 kitaman27 wrote:
There were a couple of people who voted for Odin based on a "logically sound case", rather than actually sharing a belief that he was mafia.
I know some may consider this a matter of semantics here, but I put some value into it. Will look back later. ^ does that look more strange to you now considering that? Kita falls into that category of people but he wants to look into those people. Does that make sense?
I don't know - I'm going to look at the lynch right now and see what I find.
But yes I sorta just went with the flow on the last lynch, basically because their names were "shiny". There's really not much else I can do while driving. Was it a good idea in hindsight? Probably not. I did manage to skim the BlazingHand case enough to think it was pretty good (as did many other people), and thought my vote would be of better use consolidating with the rest of the town.
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On May 23 2014 14:59 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2014 15:56 Hapahauli wrote:On May 22 2014 15:01 geript wrote:On May 22 2014 08:03 Hapahauli wrote:On May 22 2014 08:00 Cavalinho wrote:
WoS, look into Steveling. HF is town and Hapa is also probably town.
I'm boggled by the fact that marv said having a huge filter is good for town. It's not when there's nothing there but useless garbage that clogs up the thread and doesn't accomplish anything.
Also, who said we should lynch layabout? When you're talking about a guy that gets lynched day 1/2 a lot, maybe, just maybe you should take the quality of their play into consideration. Maybe I'm biased because I got lynched day 1 a lot for stupid reasons, but I still really want to kill Steveling today over anything and everything else for the moment.
I'd be really wary of people who say that just having a big filter is good for town. Steveling would be a terrible lynch. I get that you don't like his play, and his play is very spammy, but it's also very clearly town. Just because his spam is "contentless" doesn't mean it isn't genuine. Look at some of his other games - he plays like that all the time. If by all the time, you mean his one game as town... On May 22 2014 08:07 Hapahauli wrote:On May 22 2014 08:04 Cavalinho wrote:On May 22 2014 08:03 Hapahauli wrote:On May 22 2014 08:00 Cavalinho wrote:
WoS, look into Steveling. HF is town and Hapa is also probably town.
I'm boggled by the fact that marv said having a huge filter is good for town. It's not when there's nothing there but useless garbage that clogs up the thread and doesn't accomplish anything.
Also, who said we should lynch layabout? When you're talking about a guy that gets lynched day 1/2 a lot, maybe, just maybe you should take the quality of their play into consideration. Maybe I'm biased because I got lynched day 1 a lot for stupid reasons, but I still really want to kill Steveling today over anything and everything else for the moment.
I'd be really wary of people who say that just having a big filter is good for town. Steveling would be a terrible lynch. I get that you don't like his play, and his play is very spammy, but it's also very clearly town. Just because his spam is "contentless" doesn't mean it isn't genuine. Look at some of his other games - he plays like that all the time. Before we start arguing, I want to know what "genuine" is. Genuine can be many things. What's "townie" about his filter is that he's constantly posting without thinking, getting into many fights, and is generally wearing his emotions on his sleeve. Contrast this with normal mafia instincts to hide, avoid conflict, etc. Also, look at his past games and compare them to this one. If you haven't done that, then your analysis is meaningless. I have. I pointed out that he's gotten in shit fights as scum before. As a matter of fact, as town, he got in far less shitfights AND his posting was far more full of actual content. On May 22 2014 08:18 Hapahauli wrote:On May 22 2014 08:12 Cavalinho wrote:On May 22 2014 08:07 Hapahauli wrote:On May 22 2014 08:04 Cavalinho wrote:On May 22 2014 08:03 Hapahauli wrote:On May 22 2014 08:00 Cavalinho wrote:
WoS, look into Steveling. HF is town and Hapa is also probably town.
I'm boggled by the fact that marv said having a huge filter is good for town. It's not when there's nothing there but useless garbage that clogs up the thread and doesn't accomplish anything.
Also, who said we should lynch layabout? When you're talking about a guy that gets lynched day 1/2 a lot, maybe, just maybe you should take the quality of their play into consideration. Maybe I'm biased because I got lynched day 1 a lot for stupid reasons, but I still really want to kill Steveling today over anything and everything else for the moment.
I'd be really wary of people who say that just having a big filter is good for town. Steveling would be a terrible lynch. I get that you don't like his play, and his play is very spammy, but it's also very clearly town. Just because his spam is "contentless" doesn't mean it isn't genuine. Look at some of his other games - he plays like that all the time. Before we start arguing, I want to know what "genuine" is. Genuine can be many things. What's "townie" about his filter is that he's constantly posting without thinking, getting into many fights, and is generally wearing his emotions on his sleeve. Contrast this with normal mafia instincts to hide, avoid conflict, etc. Also, look at his past games and compare them to this one. If you haven't done that, then your analysis is meaningless. I've played with him before. He is doing the exact same thing he was doing in Cell, making people feel smart and getting people to ignore him. It's spammier than normal, but that's not the issue that I have with him. Like some of the players right now are just calling it boring (Koshi) without trying to see if it's legitimately true or not. Why is this not an issue for you? Nothing in this post describes why Steveling is scum. You compare his play in Cell to his play here, but they look very different at first glance to me. He is definetely active in Cell, but seems a lot more calm. Compared to this game, he's picking fights and is generally an attention-whore. He was pretty whorish too. Plus for getting in as many fights as he's had, in all of those, he's been the calm one in them. He's the one who cares about whether or not he gets in trouble for it. On May 22 2014 08:23 Hapahauli wrote:On May 22 2014 08:20 Cavalinho wrote:On May 22 2014 08:18 Hapahauli wrote:On May 22 2014 08:12 Cavalinho wrote:On May 22 2014 08:07 Hapahauli wrote:On May 22 2014 08:04 Cavalinho wrote:On May 22 2014 08:03 Hapahauli wrote:
[quote]
Steveling would be a terrible lynch. I get that you don't like his play, and his play is very spammy, but it's also very clearly town. Just because his spam is "contentless" doesn't mean it isn't genuine. Look at some of his other games - he plays like that all the time. Before we start arguing, I want to know what "genuine" is. Genuine can be many things. What's "townie" about his filter is that he's constantly posting without thinking, getting into many fights, and is generally wearing his emotions on his sleeve. Contrast this with normal mafia instincts to hide, avoid conflict, etc. Also, look at his past games and compare them to this one. If you haven't done that, then your analysis is meaningless. I've played with him before. He is doing the exact same thing he was doing in Cell, making people feel smart and getting people to ignore him. It's spammier than normal, but that's not the issue that I have with him. Like some of the players right now are just calling it boring (Koshi) without trying to see if it's legitimately true or not. Why is this not an issue for you? Nothing in this post describes why Steveling is scum. You compare his play in Cell to his play here, but they look very different at first glance to me. He is definetely active in Cell, but seems a lot more calm. Compared to this game, he's picking fights and is generally an attention-whore. Then check my filter for the big, red-titled post on why I thought he was scum. But that's the thing - those types of posts you point out "after the spam" really aren't present in Cell Mafia. He just seems as a whole so much more hyper and emotional in this game. Anyway, talk to me about some other people. Layabout, tambo, ritoky, etc. I agree that his play on face value looks different from Cell. But it also looks exceptionally different from Glory Hole. The trends in his play are far more reflective is his Cell game than his Gloryhole game. Like I really don't get how you could meta a player so awfully. Mine explaining why you've protected Scumeling so many times on bad meta? I really don't know how to say it any better than I have: the guy has a fucking 10 page filter in 24 hours. If you think mafia can do that, you're insane. But then again, I really don't feel like arguing any more since... a) There's no way I'm going to convince someone confirmation biased enough to call the guy "scumelling" over and overa gain.b) Steveling isn't getting lynched. My target of choice is. c) The "oats-whisperer" does not get to lecture me on how to interpret meta cases. From my reading of the thread you were one of the people who switched votes onto Odin for not an outright stated justification in the thread. It seemed to me to be following behind Kush primarily, but even then you did a lot of hedging saying Val was probably a better target. So I have two questions for you if you wouldn't mind obliging me. 1) Can you state clearly why you switched your vote onto Odin? 2) You made a very large deal about geript having confirmation bias blinding him about steveling, so where was that same concern about BH having confirmation bias against Odin in regards to the case he made? (see bolded part and convo above)
1) See my above post.
2) Well the bottom line is that I thought Geript's case was bad, whereas I thought BH's case was good. There's not much more to it than that.
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On May 24 2014 00:58 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2014 00:55 Hapahauli wrote:On May 23 2014 14:30 Holyflare wrote:On May 23 2014 14:07 Hapahauli wrote:On May 23 2014 13:57 Holyflare wrote:On May 23 2014 13:18 Hapahauli wrote:
Hm. That lynch result was unfortunate. Though the good news is that we have a lot of material to work with - these crazy late vote swaps always generate good information.
I'll be reading the buildup to the lynch tomorrow, as I just drove 8 hours and I'm dead tired. My first instinct is to look into players on the Odin wagon that followed Blazinghand's RNG lynch as opposed to lynching Odin for actually being suspicious of him. Yell0w stuck with his early RNG vote on Odin despite having several other scum-reads in his filter. Alakaslam never mentioned a scum-read on Odin either (other the RNG stuff). Not sure if that's just Slam being Slam, but that's objectively pretty terrible.
Obviously there are more people to look into than the two I mentioned above - Cavalihno's case looks interesting at first glance, and I'll need to verify that myself after I get some sleep. Tambo essentially wasting his vote late in the cycle is also very bad.
Since several people expressed concern about my own actions during the lynch, I can't defend myself other than simply not being able to post while driving on a highway. My travel schedule today was terrible, and I really wish I could have been around for the deadline.
Instead, I had a very short time to get acquainted with BlazingHand's case, saw a bunch of reputable players follow it, and kinda just went with the flow. Given the result and hindsight, I very much regret how it played out, but there was very little I could do today to help it. can you name the reputable players without looking and also say if you think they are town this game Marv/Kita/BH off the top of my head. The thing is, it doesn't really matter if they're town. Given that there are multiple factions, it's highly likely that mafia and town can have similar objectives (lynching other factions). If you want my surface reads on them... BH = Town Kita = Null Marv = Slight-Town Of course it matters if they're town because you want to find not-town people and they could be pushing agendas as not town?? Are you solely saying that you followed them because their names were all up there and pretty like? Now that you know he was town do they look more suspicious to you for providing 0 reasoning for lynching odin? Kita doesn't even mention wanting to lynch odin at all afaik in his entire filter. On May 23 2014 06:34 kitaman27 wrote:
There were a couple of people who voted for Odin based on a "logically sound case", rather than actually sharing a belief that he was mafia.
I know some may consider this a matter of semantics here, but I put some value into it. Will look back later. ^ does that look more strange to you now considering that? Kita falls into that category of people but he wants to look into those people. Does that make sense? I don't know - I'm going to look at the lynch right now and see what I find. But yes I sorta just went with the flow on the last lynch, basically because their names were "shiny". There's really not much else I can do while driving. Was it a good idea in hindsight? Probably not. I did manage to skim the BlazingHand case enough to think it was pretty good (as did many other people), and thought my vote would be of better use consolidating with the rest of the town. What about the kita stuff? :p
Told you - I'm looking into it now. Expect a larger post in an hour or so.
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On May 24 2014 00:58 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2014 00:55 Hapahauli wrote:On May 23 2014 14:30 Holyflare wrote:On May 23 2014 14:07 Hapahauli wrote:On May 23 2014 13:57 Holyflare wrote:On May 23 2014 13:18 Hapahauli wrote:
Hm. That lynch result was unfortunate. Though the good news is that we have a lot of material to work with - these crazy late vote swaps always generate good information.
I'll be reading the buildup to the lynch tomorrow, as I just drove 8 hours and I'm dead tired. My first instinct is to look into players on the Odin wagon that followed Blazinghand's RNG lynch as opposed to lynching Odin for actually being suspicious of him. Yell0w stuck with his early RNG vote on Odin despite having several other scum-reads in his filter. Alakaslam never mentioned a scum-read on Odin either (other the RNG stuff). Not sure if that's just Slam being Slam, but that's objectively pretty terrible.
Obviously there are more people to look into than the two I mentioned above - Cavalihno's case looks interesting at first glance, and I'll need to verify that myself after I get some sleep. Tambo essentially wasting his vote late in the cycle is also very bad.
Since several people expressed concern about my own actions during the lynch, I can't defend myself other than simply not being able to post while driving on a highway. My travel schedule today was terrible, and I really wish I could have been around for the deadline.
Instead, I had a very short time to get acquainted with BlazingHand's case, saw a bunch of reputable players follow it, and kinda just went with the flow. Given the result and hindsight, I very much regret how it played out, but there was very little I could do today to help it. can you name the reputable players without looking and also say if you think they are town this game Marv/Kita/BH off the top of my head. The thing is, it doesn't really matter if they're town. Given that there are multiple factions, it's highly likely that mafia and town can have similar objectives (lynching other factions). If you want my surface reads on them... BH = Town Kita = Null Marv = Slight-Town Of course it matters if they're town because you want to find not-town people and they could be pushing agendas as not town?? Are you solely saying that you followed them because their names were all up there and pretty like? Now that you know he was town do they look more suspicious to you for providing 0 reasoning for lynching odin? Kita doesn't even mention wanting to lynch odin at all afaik in his entire filter. On May 23 2014 06:34 kitaman27 wrote:
There were a couple of people who voted for Odin based on a "logically sound case", rather than actually sharing a belief that he was mafia.
I know some may consider this a matter of semantics here, but I put some value into it. Will look back later. ^ does that look more strange to you now considering that? Kita falls into that category of people but he wants to look into those people. Does that make sense? I don't know - I'm going to look at the lynch right now and see what I find. But yes I sorta just went with the flow on the last lynch, basically because their names were "shiny". There's really not much else I can do while driving. Was it a good idea in hindsight? Probably not. I did manage to skim the BlazingHand case enough to think it was pretty good (as did many other people), and thought my vote would be of better use consolidating with the rest of the town. What about the kita stuff? :p
Errr Holyflare... you realize that Kita didn't vote for Odin, right? He kept his vote on Valeinus the whole time.
Which is also my mistake as well, because I could have freggin sworn that he did when I made my own vote.
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On May 23 2014 05:00 ShiaoPi wrote:VOTE COUNT: mtamburini (8): Tehpoofter, Hapahauli, Alakaslam, mattisfoolish, Xatalos, Cavalinho, Holyflare, thrawn2112, BlueyD, marvellosity, jampidampi, 27ninjabunnies, bkqyrldp, austinmcc, layabout, Steveling, Meapak_Ziphh Valenius (2): Meapak_Ziphh, Hapahauli, Tehpoofter, OnceKing, marvellosity, Hapahauli, Xatalos, kitaman27, sqrtofneg1 geript (0): Holyflare, StevelingKoshi (0): ValeniusSteveling (0): Holyflare, Cavalinho, geriptAlakaslam (0): kushm4sta, kushm4staHapahauli (0): kushm4staYell0w (1): Tehpoofter, Tehpoofter, BlueyDXatalos (0): jampidampi, marvellosity, Koshi, thrawn2112, kushm4stajampidampi (0): sqrtofneg1, Xatalos, Xatalos27ninjabunnies (1): Cephiro sqrtofneg1 (0): kitaman27bkqyrldp (0): marvellosityOdinOfPergo (13): Blazinghand, Steveling, Xatalos, Yell0w, Alakaslam, Alakaslam, kushm4sta, Xatalos, Koshi, OnceKing, marvellosity, Hapahauli, thrawn2112, bkqyrldp, Cavalinho, Valenius, Holyflare Holyflare (1): WaveofShadow, Xatalos, Steveling, Steveling, sqrtofneg1WaveofShadow (0): kitaman27, bkqyrldpBlazinghand (1): Tehpoofter, OdinofPergo, geript, marvellosity, geript thrawn2112 (0): 27ninjabunniesmarvellosity (0): kushm4stalayabout (1): jampidampi, Koshi, OnceKing, marvellosity, ritoky ritoky (0): austinmcc, layaboutBlueyD (0): kitaman27Tehpoofter (1): mtamburini Not voting (2): MysterMeat1, OdinofPergo OdinOfPergo was lynched with 13 votes!
I'm going to use the above votecount to structure my thoughts. By looking at the votes, we can get a better idea about the motivations of certain players, and it can help identify certain mafia tells that might be present in a multi-faction game. I'm dividing posters into 3 categories:
- People off of the main wagons
- People who voted Odin
- People who voted Tambo
People off of the main wagons:
There's a good chance that certain mafia/faction members will want to "blend-in" and "hide", and one very instinctual way of doing that is to avoid the main course of discussion, take "non-controversial" stances, and avoid contributing by pursuing/voting someone who is not being talked about and has very little chance of getting lynched.
In this category of players, we have:
mtamburini
rikoty
geript
Cephiro
Tehpoofter
kitaman
sqrtofneg1
WaveofShadow
I'm going to start with Mafia Reads, move to Null Reads, and then to Townies:
Mtamburini
+ Show Spoiler +Mtamburini's vote looks extremely bad by all accounts. On May 23 2014 03:45 mtamburini wrote:I Vote:: tehpoofterwhy? No one else has and I can be the first one to say in post game if he is scum to say I TOLD YOU SO MOFOS harharharhar Tehpoofter had virtually no chance of getting lynched yesterday, and this is the definition of a wasted vote by all accounts. His reasoning for placing his vote where it was is also pretty suspect: why?
No one else has and I can be the first one to say in post game if he is scum to say I TOLD YOU SO MOFOS On May 23 2014 04:36 mtamburini wrote:I have a lot of reading to catch up on so if I had to found scum based on the first 45 pages of this game I probably couldnt do so. poofter was in my initial scum reads moving towards null.... On May 23 2014 04:59 mtamburini wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 04:38 Holyflare wrote:On May 23 2014 04:36 mtamburini wrote:On May 23 2014 04:26 Xatalos wrote:
What was that vote, mtamburini...? I have a lot of reading to catch up on so if I had to found scum based on the first 45 pages of this game I probably couldnt do so. poofter was in my initial scum reads moving towards null. Im not going to vote on bunnies because I think she might be town and just needs some time to cool off and get her head in gear. As the days go on my game will improve. With regards to my interactions with people Ive played with before I know I have a better chance of getting a read off them then smoeone I do not know so I will look at them first before anyone else. hey i thought after your long post the ONLY read you had was that steveling was scummy/null to you and that was it? where did this first 45 page poofter read come from? tehpoofter uses sarcasm as either allignment but you can usually tell by the tone of his sarcasm what allignement he is. From his initial posts Im reading the sarcasm as more scummy then towny All of this is really strange. The first two quotes can be barely considered reads. The 3rd quote is extremely manufactured and makes very little sense - tambo had never mentioned tehpoofters "sarcasm" all game, and then it shows up in a very mystical and unexplained read (what is the difference between town/mafia sarcasm?). Quote #2 is additionally strange - he voted a read (tehpoofter) that he felt was moving from Scummy to Null. Not only is this really weak, but he did so over Bunnies, who he's been seemingly tunneling most of the game, and has explicitly called her a strong scum-read in earlier posts. His rationale for not voting Bunnies is weak and makes little sense: On May 23 2014 04:36 mtamburini wrote:... Im not going to vote on bunnies because I think she might be town and just needs some time to cool off and get her head in gear. ... To understand why this makes so little sense, read this post... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/440546-golden-sun-the-lost-age-mafia-djinn-edition?page=45#896...then read page 3 of his filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/440546-golden-sun-the-lost-age-mafia-djinn-edition?user=mtamburini&page=3He doesn't vote a scumread because he believes that scumread could be town, but then votes tehpoofter (his "scummy moving to null" read) because... man I don't even know.
sqrtofneg1
+ Show Spoiler +His deadline behavior is pretty strange. After he comes back a couple of hours before lynch deadline, he quickly establishes a town-read on Odin... On May 23 2014 03:03 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Okay, looking at Odin's filter myself, I think he's just a vanilla townie.
Scum would try harder to get out of it. As a vanilla townie, he wouldn't care. On May 23 2014 03:26 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
I recommend lynching Val.
Odin may seem scum, but I think he's VT. It's a very poorly explained town-read. His point about "Odin not trying to get out of the lynch" doesn't make much sense either, since Odin had stated earlier he'd be gone until the deadline. Futhermore, Odin was under very little pressure at the time he said that. It seems more like he's trying to justify not voting for Odin as opposed to being sincere with his read. Sqrt then pops down a very "clean" vote on Valenius... ... then POOF! He's gone for the last two hours of shenanigans! Despite having a town read on Odin, he never seems to try and act on it to prevent it. He disappears... then instantly reappears at lynch deadline! This is a really suspicious 2 hours of absence. Another *really* odd thing about his filter is how many town reads he gives out over the course of the game. He gives them out like candy, is seemingly confident in a lot of them, and... yeah. I'm not sure if this is a mafia tell in this particular setup, but it's something that definetely caught my eye on a readthrough.
Cephiro
+ Show Spoiler +Given that Cephiro was AFK for the last half of the day, it's hard for me to get an accurate read on him. However the first half of his day 1 play seems like it would come from some sort of faction.
I won't talk much about the contents of his big case. What's more important is that he didn't talk about anything other than his case on bunnies at all. This lines up with the idea of a faction wanting to "hunt" for players, but not necessarily interested in contributing to town discussion.
Again, hard to make a complete read on him due to him being AFK for a while, but his play objectively fits pretty well with how I'd think a faction member hunting other faction members would approach this game: find a target, push him/her, and really not contribute to town discussion otherwise.
Ritoky
+ Show Spoiler +Hard to say. His play is pretty short and straightforward. He believed layabout was scum, voted him, and then had to step out: On May 22 2014 19:48 ritoky wrote:
Well, I am going to sleep and I am not sure if I will make it back before the deadline.
For me it's between WOS and layabout.
WOS contributes and I basically don't like much of anything he says.
Layabout doesn't contribute, and when he does its mostly shit filling.
Gonna go with layabout. ##vote layabout Nothing in his filter that screams his alignment one way or the other.
WaveofShadow
+ Show Spoiler +Well he replaced out. This makes a lot of his lack of interest and activity in the latter half of the game pretty explainable. I wasn't altogether please with his play (especially his stuff on Holyflare), but it's better not to make judgements about an incomplete filter and let his replacement talk some.
Geript I believe to be town. Geript is extremely active and emotional this game. His tunnels seem very genuine, and while he ended up on BlazingHand, he definitely was very involved in the chaos and discussion of the day. He's drawn a ton of attention to himself, and really isn't someone I'm concerned about.
Tehpoofter I'm less sure about, but I think he's town. He's playing extraordinarily different from his scum-game in You Only Shoot Once, and was fairly active/involved early on. He was afk for the last ~24 hours of the day (not changing his vote or posting at all), which leads me to believe his vote being off of one of the main wagons is a null-tell. Based on his early day behavior, I give him a moderate town read, with the expectation that he continues that in future days.
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Parts 2 and 3 coming up - I just wanted to get this down before I unplugged my computer.
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On May 24 2014 03:32 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2014 03:26 Blazinghand wrote:On May 24 2014 03:25 layabout wrote:
That case on y3llow is horrific and i would normally call it pretty scummy tbh. Being absent during the last 3 hours of the day (which is when the odin wagon started in earnest) is not something that we can necessarily infer things from because we have no way of knowing if the absence is legitimate. That's a narrative, a few quotes and no argument with some added complaining about doing work for the thread. the dude was absent for way more than the last 3 hours of the day tho and he hasn't veen back since then so yewah, get served "dude" your first game of mafia wasn't even student it was the 80 player one @ hapa cephiro was one of if not the first players to move the discussion into the realms of because of A and B player C is Mafia
You are 100% correct. However in a multi-faction game, pursuing a read genuinely is not a town-tell.
Had he contributed at all to discussion out side of Bunnies (hell had he did anything outside of tunneling a single person), I might think differently of his play. But he didn't.
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@ Austin
I still don't find Valenius town. My vote-switch at the end is entirely explained by my travel schedule and my lack of time to post anything of substance in the last minute scramble. I posted two of my last 3 posts from traffic, and my vote post from a rest-stop.
I made the fact that I would be busier than normal this game both before the game and the lynch. I really don't know how I could make it any clearer than that.
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And furthermore, that case by you Austin really doesn't say much about me being mafia.
Consider this: I am a factional player and I believe Valenius to be of another faction. Why would I not attempt to tunnel my top scumread to death and push my objective? Hell pushing Valenius would point MORE to be being mafia in this game.
Instead, I tried to do something pro-town in what little time I had and help the consolidation onto another lynch. Am I happy with the way it turned out? Not really. I should have taken far more time to read BH"s post, instead of reading it once quickly, seeing a bunch of vote swaps, and going with the flow.
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On May 24 2014 04:28 OnceKing wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2014 04:21 Hapahauli wrote:
(snip)
Consider this: I am a factional player and I believe Valenius to be of another faction. Why would I not attempt to tunnel my top scumread to death and push my objective? Hell pushing Valenius would point MORE to be being mafia in this game.
(snip) Show nested quote +On May 24 2014 04:12 austinmcc wrote:
This makes it appear that Hapa doesn't actually have a real read on Valenius, because his read/vote never develop in the right way. People who don't have real reads are making them up. Making reads up is bad and a mafia thing.
you're not addressing his case/premise he's suggesting that valenius is not actually a real scum read
That also makes zero sense though. Why would I fake a scum-read in-thread as a faction hunting another faction? That makes all sorts of little sense, because I'd be wasting time doing something incredibly dangerous for no more town credit than building an actual case.
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This post was supposed to be a bit longer, but I'm running out of time until the deadline, and I need to talk to austin apparently.
Might be bombing more reads as I go through filters.
Yell0w
+ Show Spoiler +Pretty simple: Votes Odin pretty early in the game in support of the "RNG lynch" thing. On May 21 2014 08:55 Yell0w wrote:
Okay so I'm behind an RNG lynch, I understand my idea wouldn't work since people don't want to random their vote and if most don't do it it'll never work, so I'll just vote Odin. I was willing to wait for people to say why they were against it, but nobody gave a good reason not to do it, in my opinion.
##Vote: OdinofPergo 13 hours later, he has scumreads! He very specifically has a STRONG scumread on tamburini and has seemingly a very good reason to vote him right away. On May 22 2014 00:19 Yell0w wrote:
...
ritoky: leaning scum, he hasn't posted enough for me to think he isn't, just made big posts to make it seems like he's contributing to town instead of actively participating in the thread like he did last game.
tamburini: scum, I didn't like the big post he made, it all seemed like fluff, he was basically just giving his gut reads on people as he was reading the thread, which is pretty much useless to anyone but him. He's been very different from the game I played with him where he was town.
... But he doesn't vote tamburini... or anyone. Despite being active ~5 hours before lynch deadline. He comes back in the thread, makes several posts that provide very little content, then is gone. I realize that Yell0w has been considered lynchbait in the past, but goddamn voting RNG over a very clear scumread (tambo) is a pretty glaring scumtell.
Alakaslam
+ Show Spoiler +I put Alakaslam next because he's in an identical situation to Yell0w: voted to RNG lynch Odin and pretty much stuck with it.
The problem is, I can't read Alakaslam for shit and my mind melts when I read his filter. I'm biased to interpret everything he says as genuine, so yeah. I'd need some second opinions here.
Kushm4sta (Shoot him!)
+ Show Spoiler +On May 23 2014 05:50 kushm4sta wrote:
to be fair i switched to odin purely for the lolz of bh retardation On May 23 2014 05:50 kushm4sta wrote:
i switched before bh made his shit case Posted after the lynch. People who vote for reasons *other* than lynching mafia are mafia themselves and should die. I really don't think this is simply kush being kush either. When he's town, he trolls the shit out of people but atleast has town objectives in his heart. There's also some weird stuff in his filter. When marv posts that "all vets who sheeped the Odin lynch are suspicious", Kush INSTANTLY re-activates and defends himself: On May 23 2014 05:49 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 05:41 marvellosity wrote:
the vets who sheeped the Odin case look the worst like me? btw i think wos requesting replacement means he is town ... posting this, followed by two other posts (quoted above). He's just very angry this game in general. I don't get any sense of playful trolling that I've seen in other of Kush's less-active town games.
Valenius
+ Show Spoiler +I've said all that I need to about him really. There are several posts in my filter about him. tl;dr, he's shitposting and +1'ing people a lot. It feels like mafia having a hard time contributing. He has two analysis pieces, one that I covered earlier... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/440546-golden-sun-the-lost-age-mafia-djinn-edition?page=118#2356... and another that's pretty simply an OMGUS case against me. He feels like mafia trying to hide. His contributions have been weak, and good portion of his filter are pointless one-liners. That being said, I think there are other priorities over him right now. It is possible that he's just a newbie with severe self-confidence issues, and I think I have stronger reads on Tambo, Yell0w, and kush.
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On May 24 2014 04:33 Holyflare wrote:
Because hapa as 3p you wouldn't care who got lynched as long as someone that wasn't in your faction did as all deaths outside would further your win con.
I also shot tambo.
So this is an anti-town 3rd party case? Well w/e, I'll get to work on defending myself more I guess.
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It's not a fucking falsified read goddamnit. Just because I don't have time to post my justifications for a vote swap FROM FUCKING I-90 doesn't mean that I don't have justifications.
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On May 24 2014 04:40 austinmcc wrote:
Hapa, I'd be interested more in your thoughts on that elderly heterosexual peruvian man than on defense, just for the moment. We can also keep chatting about you, but i THINK you were in that game that I'm thinking off with marv and keirathi and folks where marv got caught?
He was afk for like half of D1, I think we lynched vaderseven D1, and he was part of like a 2-man scum team or something, him and maybe iamp?
So you mean marv? I have my eye on him after reading the game again, mostly because I didn't see him push any objectives today.
The problem is that I'm not sure that it's a scumtell in this setup.
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On May 24 2014 04:42 austinmcc wrote:
It's not "The Swap."
It's the whole entire THING. He's mafia, you put him aside but he's still mafia, then he MIGHT be explained by the small --> large game jump (even though he's scummy this game AND doesn't match his newbie play). You pick him back up after dropping mtam, but only after OnceKing points him out.
(OH YEAH HEY THREAD I LIKED ONCEKING'S STUFF BEFORE LYNCH AND IT FELT LIKE HE WAS FINALLY GETTING ACTIVE AND TRYING TO GET A GOOD LYNCH AND SOLVE THE GAME AND I ALSO THINK HE'S PRETTY DARN TOWN)
But then he's dropped for OOP, despite being a scumread of yours all day and continuing to be a scumread. And when you go to look at votes and whatnot, you talk about kita/MZ/marv and slam and yellow but NOT valenius. In all honesty, the fact that Valenius just seems to slip your mind, despite being a big scumread, and despite doing basically what slam did, is the thing that MOST pushes in favor of this being all made up.
It's not the vote. It's more. And it's mainly, for me, the post-lynch response.
Ok can you clear up what you want to discuss with me right now? I can defend myself, or I can talk about scumreads. Which one do you want first, because it is insanely frustrating to have someone spam both in my face repeatedly for multiple pages without getting the chance to reply.
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Post lynch Valenius - didn't mention him, because my thoughts are ALWAYS on the votes first and foremost post-lynch. I almost always mulligan my reads after Day 1 and start fresh. Bad concrete actions by players (i.e. votes) ALWAYS take precedence over Day 1 meta cases on players that could be lynchbait.
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On May 24 2014 04:44 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2014 04:42 Hapahauli wrote:On May 24 2014 04:40 austinmcc wrote:
Hapa, I'd be interested more in your thoughts on that elderly heterosexual peruvian man than on defense, just for the moment. We can also keep chatting about you, but i THINK you were in that game that I'm thinking off with marv and keirathi and folks where marv got caught?
He was afk for like half of D1, I think we lynched vaderseven D1, and he was part of like a 2-man scum team or something, him and maybe iamp? So you mean marv? I have my eye on him after reading the game again, mostly because I didn't see him push any objectives today. The problem is that I'm not sure that it's a scumtell in this setup. Yeah, that elderly heterosexual peruvian man. No push. Putting aside that we don't know the actual setup, how do you think multi-faction changes his behavior?
Peruvian man - because it's plausible that scum have objectives to push in the thread, which makes it strange to see someone not push said objectives. Maybe I'm being too closed minded about the setup possibilities, but that's where I stand.
Also, unless I'm 100% convinced that he's scum, I'm really reluctant to push him. A marv lynch in a 32 player game is the ultimate clusterfuck, and honestly I don't feel like I can read him accurately at this point during the game enough for it to be worth my sanity.
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On May 24 2014 04:46 austinmcc wrote:
...
As far as defense, I'm mainly interested in post-lynch thoughts. Not the vote, not any of that, but mainly why he doesn't catch your eye like slam and co. do.
On May 24 2014 04:45 Hapahauli wrote:
Post lynch Valenius - didn't mention him, because my thoughts are ALWAYS on the votes first and foremost post-lynch. I almost always mulligan my reads after Day 1 and start fresh. Bad concrete actions by players (i.e. votes) ALWAYS take precedence over Day 1 meta cases on players that could be lynchbait.
If you need more detail than the above, the bottom line is that I don't have concrete voting evidence against Valenius, in the same way that I do on other players. I have no evidence that Valenius has done something anti-town: all I know is that he's playing bad and different from one of his past newbie town games. I think that's reasonably good grounds to lynch someone, but not like some of the stuff I have on the other players.
Like kush admitting to voting someone for reasons other than that person being mafia.
Or Yell0w voting Odin for pure RNG while having actual stated scum-reads.
Or tambo for throwing away his vote on a player who he had a debatable scumread on while not voting his more articulated scumread because "bunnies could flip town."
I like my Valenius case, and I think it was a good Day 1 case. It does not compare to my other suspicions and evidence however.
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Ge ge guys.
Not only does Valenius have...I guess just one scumread, not a filter-full. But it's on YOU. How is Yellow the guy you pick up on having scumreads but voting OOP for no real reason, over Valenius, the dude you thought was scum, think is scum, and had a scumread on YOU that he was even pushing 10 min before the deadline while voting BH as sheep>?
Read this, and tell me exactly why my case on Yell0w is not bad/damning:
Yell0w
+ Show Spoiler +Pretty simple: Votes Odin pretty early in the game in support of the "RNG lynch" thing. On May 21 2014 08:55 Yell0w wrote:
Okay so I'm behind an RNG lynch, I understand my idea wouldn't work since people don't want to random their vote and if most don't do it it'll never work, so I'll just vote Odin. I was willing to wait for people to say why they were against it, but nobody gave a good reason not to do it, in my opinion.
##Vote: OdinofPergo 13 hours later, he has scumreads! He very specifically has a STRONG scumread on tamburini and has seemingly a very good reason to vote him right away. On May 22 2014 00:19 Yell0w wrote:
...
ritoky: leaning scum, he hasn't posted enough for me to think he isn't, just made big posts to make it seems like he's contributing to town instead of actively participating in the thread like he did last game.
tamburini: scum, I didn't like the big post he made, it all seemed like fluff, he was basically just giving his gut reads on people as he was reading the thread, which is pretty much useless to anyone but him. He's been very different from the game I played with him where he was town.
... But he doesn't vote tamburini... or anyone. Despite being active ~5 hours before lynch deadline. He comes back in the thread, makes several posts that provide very little content, then is gone. I realize that Yell0w has been considered lynchbait in the past, but goddamn voting RNG over a very clear scumread (tambo) is a pretty glaring scumtell.
...because I think it's very strong, and much stronger than my case on Valenius. Someone voting RNG over their articulated scumreads is the most eye-catching things I can think of in a mafia game.
As for Valenius - again, I think he is scum, but I have less concrete evidence to believe so. And hell, someone being suspicious of me is not a scumtell. Why on earth would that factor into my decisionmaking when reading him? Sure I'm suspicious of him for his lack of content elsewhere, but just for the case? No way.
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Not voting mtamb until I hear from Holyflare about the shot. Totally not on the highway, so my vote will be with explanations for sure this time austin.
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On May 24 2014 05:44 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2014 05:43 austinmcc wrote:On May 24 2014 05:41 marvellosity wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 24 2014 03:25 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 05:00 ShiaoPi wrote:VOTE COUNT: mtamburini (8): Tehpoofter, Hapahauli, Alakaslam, mattisfoolish, Xatalos, Cavalinho, Holyflare, thrawn2112, BlueyD, marvellosity, jampidampi, 27ninjabunnies, bkqyrldp, austinmcc, layabout, Steveling, Meapak_Ziphh Valenius (2): Meapak_Ziphh, Hapahauli, Tehpoofter, OnceKing, marvellosity, Hapahauli, Xatalos, kitaman27, sqrtofneg1 geript (0): Holyflare, StevelingKoshi (0): ValeniusSteveling (0): Holyflare, Cavalinho, geriptAlakaslam (0): kushm4sta, kushm4staHapahauli (0): kushm4staYell0w (1): Tehpoofter, Tehpoofter, BlueyDXatalos (0): jampidampi, marvellosity, Koshi, thrawn2112, kushm4stajampidampi (0): sqrtofneg1, Xatalos, Xatalos27ninjabunnies (1): Cephiro sqrtofneg1 (0): kitaman27bkqyrldp (0): marvellosityOdinOfPergo (13): Blazinghand, Steveling, Xatalos, Yell0w, Alakaslam, Alakaslam, kushm4sta, Xatalos, Koshi, OnceKing, marvellosity, Hapahauli, thrawn2112, bkqyrldp, Cavalinho, Valenius, Holyflare Holyflare (1): WaveofShadow, Xatalos, Steveling, Steveling, sqrtofneg1WaveofShadow (0): kitaman27, bkqyrldpBlazinghand (1): Tehpoofter, OdinofPergo, geript, marvellosity, geript thrawn2112 (0): 27ninjabunniesmarvellosity (0): kushm4stalayabout (1): jampidampi, Koshi, OnceKing, marvellosity, ritoky ritoky (0): austinmcc, layaboutBlueyD (0): kitaman27Tehpoofter (1): mtamburini Not voting (2): MysterMeat1, OdinofPergo OdinOfPergo was lynched with 13 votes!
I'm going to use the above votecount to structure my thoughts. By looking at the votes, we can get a better idea about the motivations of certain players, and it can help identify certain mafia tells that might be present in a multi-faction game. I'm dividing posters into 3 categories: - People off of the main wagons
- People who voted Odin
- People who voted Tambo
People off of the main wagons:There's a good chance that certain mafia/faction members will want to "blend-in" and "hide", and one very instinctual way of doing that is to avoid the main course of discussion, take "non-controversial" stances, and avoid contributing by pursuing/voting someone who is not being talked about and has very little chance of getting lynched. In this category of players, we have: mtamburini rikoty geript Cephiro Tehpoofter kitaman sqrtofneg1 WaveofShadow I'm going to start with Mafia Reads, move to Null Reads, and then to Townies: Mtamburini+ Show Spoiler +Mtamburini's vote looks extremely bad by all accounts. On May 23 2014 03:45 mtamburini wrote:I Vote:: tehpoofterwhy? No one else has and I can be the first one to say in post game if he is scum to say I TOLD YOU SO MOFOS harharharhar Tehpoofter had virtually no chance of getting lynched yesterday, and this is the definition of a wasted vote by all accounts. His reasoning for placing his vote where it was is also pretty suspect: why?
No one else has and I can be the first one to say in post game if he is scum to say I TOLD YOU SO MOFOS On May 23 2014 04:36 mtamburini wrote:I have a lot of reading to catch up on so if I had to found scum based on the first 45 pages of this game I probably couldnt do so. poofter was in my initial scum reads moving towards null.... On May 23 2014 04:59 mtamburini wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 04:38 Holyflare wrote:On May 23 2014 04:36 mtamburini wrote:On May 23 2014 04:26 Xatalos wrote:
What was that vote, mtamburini...? I have a lot of reading to catch up on so if I had to found scum based on the first 45 pages of this game I probably couldnt do so. poofter was in my initial scum reads moving towards null. Im not going to vote on bunnies because I think she might be town and just needs some time to cool off and get her head in gear. As the days go on my game will improve. With regards to my interactions with people Ive played with before I know I have a better chance of getting a read off them then smoeone I do not know so I will look at them first before anyone else. hey i thought after your long post the ONLY read you had was that steveling was scummy/null to you and that was it? where did this first 45 page poofter read come from? tehpoofter uses sarcasm as either allignment but you can usually tell by the tone of his sarcasm what allignement he is. From his initial posts Im reading the sarcasm as more scummy then towny All of this is really strange. The first two quotes can be barely considered reads. The 3rd quote is extremely manufactured and makes very little sense - tambo had never mentioned tehpoofters "sarcasm" all game, and then it shows up in a very mystical and unexplained read (what is the difference between town/mafia sarcasm?). Quote #2 is additionally strange - he voted a read (tehpoofter) that he felt was moving from Scummy to Null. Not only is this really weak, but he did so over Bunnies, who he's been seemingly tunneling most of the game, and has explicitly called her a strong scum-read in earlier posts. His rationale for not voting Bunnies is weak and makes little sense: On May 23 2014 04:36 mtamburini wrote:... Im not going to vote on bunnies because I think she might be town and just needs some time to cool off and get her head in gear. ... To understand why this makes so little sense, read this post... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/440546-golden-sun-the-lost-age-mafia-djinn-edition?page=45#896...then read page 3 of his filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/440546-golden-sun-the-lost-age-mafia-djinn-edition?user=mtamburini&page=3He doesn't vote a scumread because he believes that scumread could be town, but then votes tehpoofter (his "scummy moving to null" read) because... man I don't even know. His deadline behavior is pretty strange. After he comes back a couple of hours before lynch deadline, he quickly establishes a town-read on Odin... On May 23 2014 03:03 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Okay, looking at Odin's filter myself, I think he's just a vanilla townie.
Scum would try harder to get out of it. As a vanilla townie, he wouldn't care. On May 23 2014 03:26 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
I recommend lynching Val.
Odin may seem scum, but I think he's VT. It's a very poorly explained town-read. His point about "Odin not trying to get out of the lynch" doesn't make much sense either, since Odin had stated earlier he'd be gone until the deadline. Futhermore, Odin was under very little pressure at the time he said that. It seems more like he's trying to justify not voting for Odin as opposed to being sincere with his read. Sqrt then pops down a very "clean" vote on Valenius... ... then POOF! He's gone for the last two hours of shenanigans! Despite having a town read on Odin, he never seems to try and act on it to prevent it. He disappears... then instantly reappears at lynch deadline! This is a really suspicious 2 hours of absence. Another *really* odd thing about his filter is how many town reads he gives out over the course of the game. He gives them out like candy, is seemingly confident in a lot of them, and... yeah. I'm not sure if this is a mafia tell in this particular setup, but it's something that definetely caught my eye on a readthrough. Given that Cephiro was AFK for the last half of the day, it's hard for me to get an accurate read on him. However the first half of his day 1 play seems like it would come from some sort of faction.
I won't talk much about the contents of his big case. What's more important is that he didn't talk about anything other than his case on bunnies at all. This lines up with the idea of a faction wanting to "hunt" for players, but not necessarily interested in contributing to town discussion.
Again, hard to make a complete read on him due to him being AFK for a while, but his play objectively fits pretty well with how I'd think a faction member hunting other faction members would approach this game: find a target, push him/her, and really not contribute to town discussion otherwise. Hard to say. His play is pretty short and straightforward. He believed layabout was scum, voted him, and then had to step out: On May 22 2014 19:48 ritoky wrote:
Well, I am going to sleep and I am not sure if I will make it back before the deadline.
For me it's between WOS and layabout.
WOS contributes and I basically don't like much of anything he says.
Layabout doesn't contribute, and when he does its mostly shit filling.
Gonna go with layabout. ##vote layabout Nothing in his filter that screams his alignment one way or the other. Well he replaced out. This makes a lot of his lack of interest and activity in the latter half of the game pretty explainable. I wasn't altogether please with his play (especially his stuff on Holyflare), but it's better not to make judgements about an incomplete filter and let his replacement talk some. I believe to be town. Geript is extremely active and emotional this game. His tunnels seem very genuine, and while he ended up on BlazingHand, he definitely was very involved in the chaos and discussion of the day. He's drawn a ton of attention to himself, and really isn't someone I'm concerned about. Tehpoofter I'm less sure about, but I think he's town. He's playing extraordinarily different from his scum-game in You Only Shoot Once, and was fairly active/involved early on. He was afk for the last ~24 hours of the day (not changing his vote or posting at all), which leads me to believe his vote being off of one of the main wagons is a null-tell. Based on his early day behavior, I give him a moderate town read, with the expectation that he continues that in future days. That's Hapa's voting analysis thingy Hapa I don't think Cephiro is mafia atm. His whole bunnies thing was sooo convoluted. And I've seen him all over the place like that as town before. I remember catching him in LXII and his posts were much clearer. So yeah. sqrt I think I agree on, the Odin townread does kinda reek of TMI. On May 24 2014 05:21 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Woah, those kills are interesting.
Filter dive time. On May 24 2014 05:30 sqrtofneg1 wrote:I think koshi's partner/teammate in his faction is jampi. On May 22 2014 19:00 Koshi wrote:On May 22 2014 18:46 ritoky wrote:
but if you post 10x in a thread and all of it is shit, that's a 100% shit rate, which makes you a shitter in my mind at least. guess it's more of a % useful material thing for me.
Since it seems like there is only 3 of us here, let's have a bit of a chat.
@Marv/geript
I am a little bit hung up on an odd interaction in the early game, that was part of the original reads I gave when I called MZ my top town. It was when he noticed Jampidampi supporting the people he would never lynch on day 1. I was actually a bit wrong on that when I went back and looked at it again. 27ninjabunnies was the one who said it, and she actually said "there is no way I would lynch meapak this game". Which meapak felt was very strange and then jampidampi hopped in to defend bunnies against that and a couple other accusations headed her way at the time.
What do you think of that interaction, because to me it seems very odd, or if you don't particularly think anything of it what do you think about those 3 people?
I am rereading that and to me it seems jampidampi started with questioning MZ about bunnies. MZ replies that bunnies made an "unguarded" comment and is likely town. jampidampi pressures MZ and is giving bunnies a scumread for being overly defensive. He is telling MZ that the way MZ clears Bunnies is wrong and that he should revisit that read. MZ doesn't do that and jampi gives MZ a light scumread for it. This is pretty towny from Jampi tbh. quotes: ↓ + Show Spoiler +On May 21 2014 07:40 jampidampi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 07:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 21 2014 07:08 jampidampi wrote:
Meapak earlier you were interested in 27ninjabunnies, did you gather anything from my conversation with her? If you had to bet on her alignment, what would you guess? ehhhh I understand the part about gut reads, I've had them myself and I know how frustrating it is to try and explain them. I give her (is ninja a her?) a pass for now because her posts seem very unguarded and often early game is when scum are most uptight. Unguarded? To me it seems that she is very defensive here: Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 06:52 27ninjabunnies wrote:On May 21 2014 06:45 jampidampi wrote:On May 21 2014 06:39 27ninjabunnies wrote:On May 21 2014 06:27 jampidampi wrote:On May 21 2014 06:21 27ninjabunnies wrote:
--
It's also obvious who are going to jump out in the front and try and lead town one way or another. We definitely have a mafia or two in the first couple of pages.
You sound confident, enough that I think you have your eye on someone already. Care to share as to who it may be? I may have my eye on a few people. From my experience, there are two type of mafia people: the lurkers, and the ones who like to come out first day and take control of town. I'm focusing on the latter because they are the ones to likely talk more, you can easily find their slips (if any), and they are also more likely to last longer than the lurker mafia. Why are you avoiding my question? I asked you to name your suspicions, but instead you give an indefinite answear and then babble on about something that could reasonably be figured out from your earlier post. If I'm avoiding your question, it's because I have a pretty good damn reason as to why. But because you are being persistant, the ones I have my eye on are Steveling, WaveofShadow and Tehpoofter. But this doesn't necessarily mean they are scum. I rather read more of their play and interactions before I straight out call someone mafia. The majority of these people I haven't played with, and this is my second forum game. If I don't have logic behind my reads, where does that put me? As a freaking town more likely to get mislynched. So hold your horses, let me get my reads, and then we'll talk. She has "a pretty damn good reason" to avoid my question, yet she anwears it. Earlier she said that "we definitely have a mafia or two" but now they are not necessarily scum. Brining out the newbie card, defending accusations that don't exist. I would definitely not call this post unguarded. Based on this I wouldn't clear bunnies so easily, but now you're interesting. What makes you think she was "unguarded" in this post? + Show Spoiler +For the annoyed thing, if she was slightly pissed at me, I would understand this kind of backlash. On May 21 2014 07:56 jampidampi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 07:44 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 21 2014 07:40 jampidampi wrote:On May 21 2014 07:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 21 2014 07:08 jampidampi wrote:
Meapak earlier you were interested in 27ninjabunnies, did you gather anything from my conversation with her? If you had to bet on her alignment, what would you guess? ehhhh I understand the part about gut reads, I've had them myself and I know how frustrating it is to try and explain them. I give her (is ninja a her?) a pass for now because her posts seem very unguarded and often early game is when scum are most uptight. Unguarded? To me it seems that she is very defensive here: On May 21 2014 06:52 27ninjabunnies wrote:On May 21 2014 06:45 jampidampi wrote:On May 21 2014 06:39 27ninjabunnies wrote:On May 21 2014 06:27 jampidampi wrote:On May 21 2014 06:21 27ninjabunnies wrote:
--
It's also obvious who are going to jump out in the front and try and lead town one way or another. We definitely have a mafia or two in the first couple of pages.
You sound confident, enough that I think you have your eye on someone already. Care to share as to who it may be? I may have my eye on a few people. From my experience, there are two type of mafia people: the lurkers, and the ones who like to come out first day and take control of town. I'm focusing on the latter because they are the ones to likely talk more, you can easily find their slips (if any), and they are also more likely to last longer than the lurker mafia. Why are you avoiding my question? I asked you to name your suspicions, but instead you give an indefinite answear and then babble on about something that could reasonably be figured out from your earlier post. If I'm avoiding your question, it's because I have a pretty good damn reason as to why. But because you are being persistant, the ones I have my eye on are Steveling, WaveofShadow and Tehpoofter. But this doesn't necessarily mean they are scum. I rather read more of their play and interactions before I straight out call someone mafia. The majority of these people I haven't played with, and this is my second forum game. If I don't have logic behind my reads, where does that put me? As a freaking town more likely to get mislynched. So hold your horses, let me get my reads, and then we'll talk. She has "a pretty damn good reason" to avoid my question, yet she anwears it. Earlier she said that "we definitely have a mafia or two" but now they are not necessarily scum. Brining out the newbie card, defending accusations that don't exist. I would definitely not call this post unguarded. Based on this I wouldn't clear bunnies so easily, but now you're interesting. What makes you think she was "unguarded" in this post? + Show Spoiler +For the annoyed thing, if she was slightly pissed at me, I would understand this kind of backlash. I agree that she made a terrible post there, my "unguarded" comment did not specifically relate to any one post in particular and more to her style of posting over all. My personal concern with her is actually her sudden clearing of me after I lightly defended her. It's waaaay too early in the game to say you won't lynch someone, even if you qualify it with D1. It still kinda baffles me that you could ignore such a heavy contrast to your generalization about bunnies play. Makes me think that you didn't actually put that much thought into it, which makes me think you might be scum. It's soon 2 AM here, so see you all tomorrow ______ From reading Jampi filter is goes like this: Jampi: Hey Bunnies I think you are scum. Let's interact. (interacting with scumread) Jampi: Hey MZ, do you agree with my scumread on Bunnies. (Interacts with MZ, gives MZ scumread for not seeing what he sees) This shows that jampi had a strong read on Bunnies at that time. Town mindset. On May 24 2014 05:35 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
I can't find anything of value imo in bkq's filter...
Also in MK's too.
I'm bad at using town filters. Is it me or is that like scumslip city
I don't think so? Am I missing something?
On May 24 2014 05:47 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2014 05:45 Xatalos wrote:On May 24 2014 05:42 Blazinghand wrote:On May 24 2014 05:40 Xatalos wrote:On May 24 2014 05:17 kitaman27 wrote:On May 24 2014 05:13 Xatalos wrote:On May 24 2014 05:11 kitaman27 wrote:Mercury is the element of water, and therefore encompasses water and ice. Mercury is symbiotic with Jupiter, neutral toward Venus, and in conflict with Mars. Hmm, sounds like factions could possibly be allied/rivals of other factions based on this description from the wiki. So it would be like this? Town Scum Mercury Jupiter Mars or something I would think: Town Venus Mercury Jupiter Mars If it's like that, then some of the other factions may be hostile towards each others, some may be neutral, allied etc... I think ShiaoPi would rather go for a like 2+2+2+2 setup, right? so that would be 8 scum vs 24 town. if scum have 4 kp, worst case scenario for town is D1: 24-2-2-2-2, mislynch, 4 shots D2: 19-2-2-2-2 mislynch, 4 shots D3: 14-2-2-2-2 LYLO? since presumably you'd need to lynch both scum to stop a scumteam's kp. Of course, there will be scum shooting at each other etc also happening which will help, but I think I could see the setup with 4x2 scum being balanced That seems plausible. It also means that it would be best if we got rid of the remaining Mercury (or Mercuries) to reduce KP? That's true. At the moment I'd rather lynch mtamb, but assuming we can actually find him (and that he's not mtamb), the last frost/mercury warrior, Koshi's buddy, is the best lynch today. Here's what we know about him: 1) he was koshi's scumbuddy 2) his kp was the one that was blocked last night, since fire, lightning, and earth flavors all existed
Errr... you're making a ton of assumptions to get to #2 yo.
1) We don't know if KP is factional or by person.
2) Even if it is by person, how do we know that one of the other factions didn't have their KP blocked?
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On May 24 2014 06:01 austinmcc wrote:
I think that we don't know when LYLO is, we don't know win conditions, we don't know what the actual teams are (kita seemed to think there were other villians, could all the elements be one faction? do evil people use elements?), we don't know diddly squat except that we should lynch some scummy brosephs.
Hapa I will look at yellow. Please keep posting.
It's incredibly annoying that you accused me of "dropping" my Valenius read without you actually having read my post-lynch analysis.
There's really nothing for me to post right now beyond waiting for people to read my cases.
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And seriously guys, I didn't waste 3 hours on this for show. I'd like some input on the scum-reads at the very least.
On May 24 2014 03:25 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 05:00 ShiaoPi wrote:VOTE COUNT: mtamburini (8): Tehpoofter, Hapahauli, Alakaslam, mattisfoolish, Xatalos, Cavalinho, Holyflare, thrawn2112, BlueyD, marvellosity, jampidampi, 27ninjabunnies, bkqyrldp, austinmcc, layabout, Steveling, Meapak_Ziphh Valenius (2): Meapak_Ziphh, Hapahauli, Tehpoofter, OnceKing, marvellosity, Hapahauli, Xatalos, kitaman27, sqrtofneg1 geript (0): Holyflare, StevelingKoshi (0): ValeniusSteveling (0): Holyflare, Cavalinho, geriptAlakaslam (0): kushm4sta, kushm4staHapahauli (0): kushm4staYell0w (1): Tehpoofter, Tehpoofter, BlueyDXatalos (0): jampidampi, marvellosity, Koshi, thrawn2112, kushm4stajampidampi (0): sqrtofneg1, Xatalos, Xatalos27ninjabunnies (1): Cephiro sqrtofneg1 (0): kitaman27bkqyrldp (0): marvellosityOdinOfPergo (13): Blazinghand, Steveling, Xatalos, Yell0w, Alakaslam, Alakaslam, kushm4sta, Xatalos, Koshi, OnceKing, marvellosity, Hapahauli, thrawn2112, bkqyrldp, Cavalinho, Valenius, Holyflare Holyflare (1): WaveofShadow, Xatalos, Steveling, Steveling, sqrtofneg1WaveofShadow (0): kitaman27, bkqyrldpBlazinghand (1): Tehpoofter, OdinofPergo, geript, marvellosity, geript thrawn2112 (0): 27ninjabunniesmarvellosity (0): kushm4stalayabout (1): jampidampi, Koshi, OnceKing, marvellosity, ritoky ritoky (0): austinmcc, layaboutBlueyD (0): kitaman27Tehpoofter (1): mtamburini Not voting (2): MysterMeat1, OdinofPergo OdinOfPergo was lynched with 13 votes!
I'm going to use the above votecount to structure my thoughts. By looking at the votes, we can get a better idea about the motivations of certain players, and it can help identify certain mafia tells that might be present in a multi-faction game. I'm dividing posters into 3 categories: - People off of the main wagons
- People who voted Odin
- People who voted Tambo
People off of the main wagons:There's a good chance that certain mafia/faction members will want to "blend-in" and "hide", and one very instinctual way of doing that is to avoid the main course of discussion, take "non-controversial" stances, and avoid contributing by pursuing/voting someone who is not being talked about and has very little chance of getting lynched. In this category of players, we have: mtamburini rikoty geript Cephiro Tehpoofter kitaman sqrtofneg1 WaveofShadow I'm going to start with Mafia Reads, move to Null Reads, and then to Townies: Mtamburini+ Show Spoiler +Mtamburini's vote looks extremely bad by all accounts. On May 23 2014 03:45 mtamburini wrote:I Vote:: tehpoofterwhy? No one else has and I can be the first one to say in post game if he is scum to say I TOLD YOU SO MOFOS harharharhar Tehpoofter had virtually no chance of getting lynched yesterday, and this is the definition of a wasted vote by all accounts. His reasoning for placing his vote where it was is also pretty suspect: why?
No one else has and I can be the first one to say in post game if he is scum to say I TOLD YOU SO MOFOS On May 23 2014 04:36 mtamburini wrote:I have a lot of reading to catch up on so if I had to found scum based on the first 45 pages of this game I probably couldnt do so. poofter was in my initial scum reads moving towards null.... On May 23 2014 04:59 mtamburini wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 04:38 Holyflare wrote:On May 23 2014 04:36 mtamburini wrote:On May 23 2014 04:26 Xatalos wrote:
What was that vote, mtamburini...? I have a lot of reading to catch up on so if I had to found scum based on the first 45 pages of this game I probably couldnt do so. poofter was in my initial scum reads moving towards null. Im not going to vote on bunnies because I think she might be town and just needs some time to cool off and get her head in gear. As the days go on my game will improve. With regards to my interactions with people Ive played with before I know I have a better chance of getting a read off them then smoeone I do not know so I will look at them first before anyone else. hey i thought after your long post the ONLY read you had was that steveling was scummy/null to you and that was it? where did this first 45 page poofter read come from? tehpoofter uses sarcasm as either allignment but you can usually tell by the tone of his sarcasm what allignement he is. From his initial posts Im reading the sarcasm as more scummy then towny All of this is really strange. The first two quotes can be barely considered reads. The 3rd quote is extremely manufactured and makes very little sense - tambo had never mentioned tehpoofters "sarcasm" all game, and then it shows up in a very mystical and unexplained read (what is the difference between town/mafia sarcasm?). Quote #2 is additionally strange - he voted a read (tehpoofter) that he felt was moving from Scummy to Null. Not only is this really weak, but he did so over Bunnies, who he's been seemingly tunneling most of the game, and has explicitly called her a strong scum-read in earlier posts. His rationale for not voting Bunnies is weak and makes little sense: On May 23 2014 04:36 mtamburini wrote:... Im not going to vote on bunnies because I think she might be town and just needs some time to cool off and get her head in gear. ... To understand why this makes so little sense, read this post... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/440546-golden-sun-the-lost-age-mafia-djinn-edition?page=45#896...then read page 3 of his filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/440546-golden-sun-the-lost-age-mafia-djinn-edition?user=mtamburini&page=3He doesn't vote a scumread because he believes that scumread could be town, but then votes tehpoofter (his "scummy moving to null" read) because... man I don't even know. His deadline behavior is pretty strange. After he comes back a couple of hours before lynch deadline, he quickly establishes a town-read on Odin... On May 23 2014 03:03 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Okay, looking at Odin's filter myself, I think he's just a vanilla townie.
Scum would try harder to get out of it. As a vanilla townie, he wouldn't care. On May 23 2014 03:26 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
I recommend lynching Val.
Odin may seem scum, but I think he's VT. It's a very poorly explained town-read. His point about "Odin not trying to get out of the lynch" doesn't make much sense either, since Odin had stated earlier he'd be gone until the deadline. Futhermore, Odin was under very little pressure at the time he said that. It seems more like he's trying to justify not voting for Odin as opposed to being sincere with his read. Sqrt then pops down a very "clean" vote on Valenius... ... then POOF! He's gone for the last two hours of shenanigans! Despite having a town read on Odin, he never seems to try and act on it to prevent it. He disappears... then instantly reappears at lynch deadline! This is a really suspicious 2 hours of absence. Another *really* odd thing about his filter is how many town reads he gives out over the course of the game. He gives them out like candy, is seemingly confident in a lot of them, and... yeah. I'm not sure if this is a mafia tell in this particular setup, but it's something that definetely caught my eye on a readthrough. Given that Cephiro was AFK for the last half of the day, it's hard for me to get an accurate read on him. However the first half of his day 1 play seems like it would come from some sort of faction.
I won't talk much about the contents of his big case. What's more important is that he didn't talk about anything other than his case on bunnies at all. This lines up with the idea of a faction wanting to "hunt" for players, but not necessarily interested in contributing to town discussion.
Again, hard to make a complete read on him due to him being AFK for a while, but his play objectively fits pretty well with how I'd think a faction member hunting other faction members would approach this game: find a target, push him/her, and really not contribute to town discussion otherwise. Hard to say. His play is pretty short and straightforward. He believed layabout was scum, voted him, and then had to step out: On May 22 2014 19:48 ritoky wrote:
Well, I am going to sleep and I am not sure if I will make it back before the deadline.
For me it's between WOS and layabout.
WOS contributes and I basically don't like much of anything he says.
Layabout doesn't contribute, and when he does its mostly shit filling.
Gonna go with layabout. ##vote layabout Nothing in his filter that screams his alignment one way or the other. Well he replaced out. This makes a lot of his lack of interest and activity in the latter half of the game pretty explainable. I wasn't altogether please with his play (especially his stuff on Holyflare), but it's better not to make judgements about an incomplete filter and let his replacement talk some. I believe to be town. Geript is extremely active and emotional this game. His tunnels seem very genuine, and while he ended up on BlazingHand, he definitely was very involved in the chaos and discussion of the day. He's drawn a ton of attention to himself, and really isn't someone I'm concerned about. Tehpoofter I'm less sure about, but I think he's town. He's playing extraordinarily different from his scum-game in You Only Shoot Once, and was fairly active/involved early on. He was afk for the last ~24 hours of the day (not changing his vote or posting at all), which leads me to believe his vote being off of one of the main wagons is a null-tell. Based on his early day behavior, I give him a moderate town read, with the expectation that he continues that in future days.
On May 24 2014 04:35 Hapahauli wrote:This post was supposed to be a bit longer, but I'm running out of time until the deadline, and I need to talk to austin apparently. Might be bombing more reads as I go through filters. Yell0w+ Show Spoiler +Pretty simple: Votes Odin pretty early in the game in support of the "RNG lynch" thing. On May 21 2014 08:55 Yell0w wrote:
Okay so I'm behind an RNG lynch, I understand my idea wouldn't work since people don't want to random their vote and if most don't do it it'll never work, so I'll just vote Odin. I was willing to wait for people to say why they were against it, but nobody gave a good reason not to do it, in my opinion.
##Vote: OdinofPergo 13 hours later, he has scumreads! He very specifically has a STRONG scumread on tamburini and has seemingly a very good reason to vote him right away. On May 22 2014 00:19 Yell0w wrote:
...
ritoky: leaning scum, he hasn't posted enough for me to think he isn't, just made big posts to make it seems like he's contributing to town instead of actively participating in the thread like he did last game.
tamburini: scum, I didn't like the big post he made, it all seemed like fluff, he was basically just giving his gut reads on people as he was reading the thread, which is pretty much useless to anyone but him. He's been very different from the game I played with him where he was town.
... But he doesn't vote tamburini... or anyone. Despite being active ~5 hours before lynch deadline. He comes back in the thread, makes several posts that provide very little content, then is gone. I realize that Yell0w has been considered lynchbait in the past, but goddamn voting RNG over a very clear scumread (tambo) is a pretty glaring scumtell. I put Alakaslam next because he's in an identical situation to Yell0w: voted to RNG lynch Odin and pretty much stuck with it.
The problem is, I can't read Alakaslam for shit and my mind melts when I read his filter. I'm biased to interpret everything he says as genuine, so yeah. I'd need some second opinions here. (Shoot him!) + Show Spoiler +On May 23 2014 05:50 kushm4sta wrote:
to be fair i switched to odin purely for the lolz of bh retardation On May 23 2014 05:50 kushm4sta wrote:
i switched before bh made his shit case Posted after the lynch. People who vote for reasons *other* than lynching mafia are mafia themselves and should die. I really don't think this is simply kush being kush either. When he's town, he trolls the shit out of people but atleast has town objectives in his heart. There's also some weird stuff in his filter. When marv posts that "all vets who sheeped the Odin lynch are suspicious", Kush INSTANTLY re-activates and defends himself: On May 23 2014 05:49 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 05:41 marvellosity wrote:
the vets who sheeped the Odin case look the worst like me? btw i think wos requesting replacement means he is town ... posting this, followed by two other posts (quoted above). He's just very angry this game in general. I don't get any sense of playful trolling that I've seen in other of Kush's less-active town games. I've said all that I need to about him really. There are several posts in my filter about him. tl;dr, he's shitposting and +1'ing people a lot. It feels like mafia having a hard time contributing. He has two analysis pieces, one that I covered earlier... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/440546-golden-sun-the-lost-age-mafia-djinn-edition?page=118#2356... and another that's pretty simply an OMGUS case against me. He feels like mafia trying to hide. His contributions have been weak, and good portion of his filter are pointless one-liners. That being said, I think there are other priorities over him right now. It is possible that he's just a newbie with severe self-confidence issues, and I think I have stronger reads on Tambo, Yell0w, and kush.
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On May 24 2014 06:10 austinmcc wrote:
He's not there in your immediately followup. The later analysis may have him as scummy, but he still drops from your mind then and slam/yellow pop up for behavior that he exhibited while pushing you.
Elderly heterosexual peruvian man, whatchoo think about hapa.
Who's not in my followup? Valenius? Who the hell cares if he's in my followup?
Like do you seriously not understand that players are capable of reacting to new, more important, and more reliable information?
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On May 24 2014 06:13 austinmcc wrote:What do you think of sqrt's post-lynch behavior Hapa? Also, I agree with your overall framework for kush, but not your conclusion. I think there IS some playful stuff, I think he's complaining just the right amount and he pops in for ... non-mafia stuff? Mafia can complain about spam all day, can complain about all sorts of stuff, can encourage bad behavior, instead kush, among other things, tries to pop in and explain whatever that bit was about you and geript and someone and when things are usually town or not. Show nested quote +On May 22 2014 04:22 kushm4sta wrote:
about the getript/sqrtneg1 exchange:
sqrtneg1 (terrible name btw) says "hapa is town because he's townreading "two alpha towns fighting"
getripts says "the person who does what hapa does is usually scum
strpt says usually they are but in not this case
sqrt thought getript was talking about himself
getript was actually talking abotu hapa
SO THE READING COMPREHENSION PROBABEM WAS WITH SQRT
this is pointless btw
I don't really see him bussing anyone except maybe you. I don't see him generally adding to thread disorganization.
I literally cannot fathom how that post indicates that kush is somehow townie.
What I see is a very typical mafia post - summarizing/explaining an argument that provides no thread conclusion, then fucking off.
Also, you're isolating the meta read of my case, when the most damning evidence is his rationale for voting Odin.
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On May 24 2014 06:16 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2014 06:11 Hapahauli wrote:On May 24 2014 06:10 austinmcc wrote:
He's not there in your immediately followup. The later analysis may have him as scummy, but he still drops from your mind then and slam/yellow pop up for behavior that he exhibited while pushing you.
Elderly heterosexual peruvian man, whatchoo think about hapa. Who's not in my followup? Valenius? Who the hell cares if he's in my followup? Like do you seriously not understand that players are capable of reacting to new, more important, and more reliable information? What new, more important, and more reliable information?
THE LYNCH!
THE FLIP!
THE VOTES!
LIKE SERIOUSLY AUSTIN. DO I NEED TO PUT THIS IN CAPITALS TO MAKE YOU UNDERSTAND THIS? BOLD PERHAPS?
This should be incredibly clear to any player familiar with the game.
If you say "people who dropped shitty votes for shitty reasons" or ANYTHING in that wheelhouse ---> yellow having scumreads of his own but just going with an RNG vote, slam basically not mentioning OOP then voting for him
then VALENIUS, THE DUDE YOU WERE SCUMMY ON, DID THE EXACT SAME THING. He was scummy on you, worried about mtam earlier in the day, and he returns to make a case on you one minute and then THE NEXT MINUTE EXACTLY vote OOP, after never mentioning him, just to sheep BH's case.
Sigh, NO. That is NOT the premise of my case on Yellow.
Yell0w voted for an RNG read INSTEAD of a scumread yesterday! That's vastly different than anything that Valenius did. It has nothing to do with a sketchy vote swap or anything of that sort. It has to do with Yell0w having his vote on someone other than his mafia candidate(s), which is one of the most classic scumtells ever. Which is, again, not something that Valenius is exhibiting.
For fucks sake, read my cases for more than 5 minutes before spamming this garbage at me. You're a decent player, and I'm at my wits end how you are not understanding basic mafia shit.
So if I'm supposed to understand that you can temporarily go looking outside your scumreads for people who just did a scummy thing, then...what I'm saying is that group of people that did that thing INCLUDES YOUR SCUMREAD. The dude that is a scumread AND does the new, more important, more reliable thing should be THE BIG FAT MEGA SCUMREAD AT THE TOP OF YOUR MIND.
Explained above. Valenius did not do what I'm accusing yell0w of doing.
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BH - if that's all the information you have and/or can reveal, there's not much sense in speculating about it. Better just to talk about lynching mafia 'n whatnot.
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On May 24 2014 06:42 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2014 06:42 Steveling wrote:On May 24 2014 06:41 Blazinghand wrote:On May 24 2014 06:40 Steveling wrote:On May 24 2014 06:39 Blazinghand wrote:On May 24 2014 06:38 Steveling wrote:On May 24 2014 06:36 Blazinghand wrote:On May 24 2014 06:34 Steveling wrote:On May 24 2014 06:32 Blazinghand wrote:On May 24 2014 06:31 Steveling wrote:
Lmao.
Then why the fuck did you reveal this you idiot. Look, let's say someone was really, really townie D1. then he has a lax few days after that, but we cut him slack cause he was townie D1, right? Well shit man I want people to know what I know. There's no need to keep town in the dark. Scum already know I'm an important blue. Might as well share. But they didn't know that you can be controlled. Only thing they may know and I'm not sure about that is that Isaac role can be controlled by a djinni. And you revealed that as a joke in d1. I want to lynch you. My Isaac roleclaim is not a joke. The only joke in here is your posting. Is this it? You are supposed to be trying now? Explain why the fuck would you reveal that you are Isaac d1 seemingly for no reason at all if you knew that your role can be controlled. Go ahead. Unless you get enough people to vote me that I think I am getting lynched, I will respond to no further questions from anyone about anything related to my role. I'm questioning your fookin reasoning not you fookin role claim. Explain why you revealed your Isaac role as a joke to marv. As I said, the only joke in this thread is you're posting. *your *woosh*
*golfclap*
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On May 24 2014 06:43 marvellosity wrote:
anyway BH and I are confirmed town to each other, so can we just stop this please?
I love you marvelbabe, but you are not confirmed town.
I've heard very little of your preferred lynch targets. Except for Tamb, but everyone kinda wants to do that.
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On May 24 2014 06:58 Steveling wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2014 06:56 Valenius wrote:On May 24 2014 06:53 Steveling wrote:On May 24 2014 06:49 austinmcc wrote:On May 24 2014 06:45 Steveling wrote:On May 24 2014 06:42 austinmcc wrote:
Steveling. PLEASE. BH is not getting lynched today, not by the hairs on my chinny chin chin. He's unlikely mafia with what he's saying. PLEASE PLEASE PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE. No blue. No BH. No Isaac. No nothing.
Some people in this game are MAFIA. If you are town they want to SHOOT YOU IN THE FACE.
EVEN IN THE SCENARIO WHERE BH IS MAFIA, ALL THAT YOUR POSTING IS DOING IS LETTING MAFIA THROW A BUNCH OF CRAP INTO THE THREAD. IT'S NOT GOOD FOR THE THREAD AND IT'S ACTIVELY NOT GOOD FOR CATCHING BH IF HE'S MAFIA. IT'S JUST GOOD FOR MAKING A MESS.
Please please pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease. I can super relate to being overly paranoid and finding connections in odd places. In my first large game, I thought one guy might be scum because he mentioned it was difficult to type. I found out that one of the villians in the show that was the theme had a bandaid on his head. I would not shut up for a day or so about how he was mafia, but did not know his teammates and they had to find each other, thus, he was signalling his teammates he was mafia by referring to the bandaid. It was not true. It was also incredibly ridiculous.
Really though that all caps paragraph. It's true. If he's mafia, this isn't helping to lynch him or catch him or anything. It's bad for us. If he's not mafia, still bad for us. All of this assumes right now that you are town. If you are mafia, carry on. I'm only asking why he revealed his role since he knew that he can be recruited. Is this a bad question? I will say that if he's truthful and says yes, then that's BAD FOR US BECAUSE SCUM COULD RECRUIT SOME DUDE THAT IS APPARENTLY IMPORTANT. If he's truthful and says no, then scum know not to try. If he lies, we're SOL anyway because we don't know what the truth is. We also have no way of telling whether he's truthful or lying. So at BEST it gives us nothing, and at WORST the more BH talks about this, the better an idea scum get of how to deal with BH and maybe slam and maybe that elderly heterosexual peruvian guy now. I am ALSO going to leave this spoiler here, and you should click it. + Show Spoiler +On May 24 2014 06:31 Steveling wrote:
Lmao.
Then why the fuck did you reveal this you idiot. On May 24 2014 06:34 Steveling wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2014 06:32 Blazinghand wrote:On May 24 2014 06:31 Steveling wrote:
Lmao.
Then why the fuck did you reveal this you idiot. Look, let's say someone was really, really townie D1. then he has a lax few days after that, but we cut him slack cause he was townie D1, right? Well shit man I want people to know what I know. There's no need to keep town in the dark. Scum already know I'm an important blue. Might as well share. But they didn't know that you can be controlled. Only thing they may know and I'm not sure about that is that Isaac role can be controlled by a djinni. And you revealed that as a joke in d1. I want to lynch you. On May 24 2014 06:35 Steveling wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2014 06:33 thrawn2112 wrote:
lets lynch BH for obviously getting recruited N1 Ditto. On May 24 2014 06:38 Steveling wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2014 06:36 Blazinghand wrote:On May 24 2014 06:34 Steveling wrote:On May 24 2014 06:32 Blazinghand wrote:On May 24 2014 06:31 Steveling wrote:
Lmao.
Then why the fuck did you reveal this you idiot. Look, let's say someone was really, really townie D1. then he has a lax few days after that, but we cut him slack cause he was townie D1, right? Well shit man I want people to know what I know. There's no need to keep town in the dark. Scum already know I'm an important blue. Might as well share. But they didn't know that you can be controlled. Only thing they may know and I'm not sure about that is that Isaac role can be controlled by a djinni. And you revealed that as a joke in d1. I want to lynch you. My Isaac roleclaim is not a joke. The only joke in here is your posting. Is this it? You are supposed to be trying now? Explain why the fuck would you reveal that you are Isaac d1 seemingly for no reason at all if you knew that your role can be controlled. Go ahead. On May 24 2014 06:40 Steveling wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2014 06:39 Blazinghand wrote:On May 24 2014 06:38 Steveling wrote:On May 24 2014 06:36 Blazinghand wrote:On May 24 2014 06:34 Steveling wrote:On May 24 2014 06:32 Blazinghand wrote:On May 24 2014 06:31 Steveling wrote:
Lmao.
Then why the fuck did you reveal this you idiot. Look, let's say someone was really, really townie D1. then he has a lax few days after that, but we cut him slack cause he was townie D1, right? Well shit man I want people to know what I know. There's no need to keep town in the dark. Scum already know I'm an important blue. Might as well share. But they didn't know that you can be controlled. Only thing they may know and I'm not sure about that is that Isaac role can be controlled by a djinni. And you revealed that as a joke in d1. I want to lynch you. My Isaac roleclaim is not a joke. The only joke in here is your posting. Is this it? You are supposed to be trying now? Explain why the fuck would you reveal that you are Isaac d1 seemingly for no reason at all if you knew that your role can be controlled. Go ahead. Unless you get enough people to vote me that I think I am getting lynched, I will respond to no further questions from anyone about anything related to my role. I'm questioning your fookin reasoning not you fookin role claim. Explain why you revealed your Isaac role as a joke to marv. On May 24 2014 06:42 Steveling wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2014 06:41 Blazinghand wrote:On May 24 2014 06:40 Steveling wrote:On May 24 2014 06:39 Blazinghand wrote:On May 24 2014 06:38 Steveling wrote:On May 24 2014 06:36 Blazinghand wrote:On May 24 2014 06:34 Steveling wrote:On May 24 2014 06:32 Blazinghand wrote:On May 24 2014 06:31 Steveling wrote:
Lmao.
Then why the fuck did you reveal this you idiot. Look, let's say someone was really, really townie D1. then he has a lax few days after that, but we cut him slack cause he was townie D1, right? Well shit man I want people to know what I know. There's no need to keep town in the dark. Scum already know I'm an important blue. Might as well share. But they didn't know that you can be controlled. Only thing they may know and I'm not sure about that is that Isaac role can be controlled by a djinni. And you revealed that as a joke in d1. I want to lynch you. My Isaac roleclaim is not a joke. The only joke in here is your posting. Is this it? You are supposed to be trying now? Explain why the fuck would you reveal that you are Isaac d1 seemingly for no reason at all if you knew that your role can be controlled. Go ahead. Unless you get enough people to vote me that I think I am getting lynched, I will respond to no further questions from anyone about anything related to my role. I'm questioning your fookin reasoning not you fookin role claim. Explain why you revealed your Isaac role as a joke to marv. As I said, the only joke in this thread is you're posting. *your On May 24 2014 06:44 Steveling wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2014 06:43 marvellosity wrote:
anyway BH and I are confirmed town to each other, so can we just stop this please? Or scum. and see whether it matches up with the question I'm responding to. Then I'm really going to get away from thread for a few hours. Since he specifically was told that he can be recruited that also means that the role that can recruit him received "you can recruit the Isaac role and do X things with him". This is why he shouldn't reveal his role under any pressure let alone as a joke d1. "You can be controlled by a djinn" .. doesn't mentioned recruitment. Yes my bad but point still stands. He shouldn't reveal he's Isaac in the first place.
TBH, I don't think mafia have that much incentive to kill townies in the first place. If you look at the 3 night kills, they look more like shots against enemy factions than killing dangerous townies (with *maybe* the exception of bkq).
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On May 24 2014 07:02 Steveling wrote:
Thoughts on HF?
Probably town. I find it skeptical that he would willingly posture a shot like that as mafia and draw that much attention to himself.
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On May 24 2014 07:22 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2014 07:07 Steveling wrote:
Wait a fucking minute.
BH is the djinni who can control the Isaac role.
That's how he got this role info he shared with us, he knows that there's an Isaac role and he's the one who can control it!
By claiming Isaac he basically banned the true Isaac from revealing himself, EVER!
That's why he claimed so easily this so important role.
Genius I'm a fuck. No I'm teasing you. Chill. I have. You're likely town Scumeling. BH maybe probably town. Marv is an old straight Peruvian. Hapa town. I'm town. Snooglewoogle likely town. Slam maybe town. Let's just stop fighting each other and work together. @Hapa can you reread ritoky. He dropped his tambo push at an odd time to pickup Wave and layabout. Looked really odd. Re:Yellow. I find his push on Slam a bit odd. Like it's half a +1 on my read and halfway calling Slam scum. I think it's kinda interesting how he follows the RNG lynch but doesn't really analyze it's usefulness either way or take a hard stance. Probably an ok lynch.
That thing on ritoky is actually kinda interesting. Didn't notice it the first time around:
"Leaning scum" here on Tambo:
On May 22 2014 07:54 ritoky wrote:
...
mtamburini - leaning scum - As town last game he entered the thread disinterested and fakeclaiming vigi right away. He entered this thread obviously much different, which is understandable since you probably can't do that every game. However his long post near the beginning of the thread didn't really do much for me. It was a lot of space for basically not much content. And after that much of what he typed seemed very forced to me. When you're forcing things out rather than simply saying you have no idea when that is the truth, it reads scummy to me.
Tambo's "a lot worse":
On May 22 2014 07:57 ritoky wrote:
...
I think you misread mtam's filter, I was moreso commenting on how I felt his movement back and forth from neutral to scummy, back to neutral was how I was feeling about bunnies.
However since then mtam has gotten a lot worse in my mind.
...nothing...
"Guess it's between layabout and WOS guaiz"
On May 22 2014 19:48 ritoky wrote:
Well, I am going to sleep and I am not sure if I will make it back before the deadline.
For me it's between WOS and layabout.
WOS contributes and I basically don't like much of anything he says.
Layabout doesn't contribute, and when he does its mostly shit filling.
Gonna go with layabout. ##vote layabout
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But honestly though, I'm not sure if it's a scumtell in this setup. Blazinghand's setup speculation seems pretty logical, and in a game with 4 scum-factions in the manner he suggested, what's the mafia motivation behind something like this? What's the mafia objective here?
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On May 24 2014 07:48 marvellosity wrote:
we need to stop with the "scumtell in this setup" crap. it's so silly.
i'll be annoyed if ritoky is mafia, then i'll have to admit austin got it right :<
Not really. I have a ton of scumreads, and a lot of them are on players I can see as being lynchbait. I'd be a lot more comfortable if I could narrow that down a bit, and establishing what and what isn't a tell in a very unusual setup is pretty important IMO.
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Apologies for being away today - I've been out of the hotel all day, and I'll likely not be around much tomorrow either. My schedule gets much better after the holiday weekend if I'm still around the game.
##Vote Yell0w
I really can't justify his play anymore from a town perspective. I thought it was *possible* that he believed for whatever reason that an RNG lynch was actually a better choice than lynching a scumread, but this posts shoots it to hell:
On May 24 2014 23:13 Yell0w wrote:
So first of all I'd like to say that I don't think we should lynch tamburini anymore, I remember him saying that he hated being vanilla townie, which I think is what's happening this game, he just doesn't care much about the game because he doesn't like his role. Anyways, that's the feeling I got from reading the thread, maybe I should reread to make sure.
And about kush, I didn't think the case against him was that great, it's just a meta case, and while it's not necessarily a bad case either, I found it really weird that so many people jumped on him so fast after the case. Personally, if someone is trying to make me believe someone else is mafia, I at least read the other person's filter and try to make my own opinion before agreeing, which some of them clearly didn't do. I'm not saying they're mafia here, I'm just saying they should be better town and not all sheep someone they don't even know the alignment of.
I thought the case against BlueyD was more convincing, especially since he is one of the person who just sheeped foolishness' case without adding anything. It does seem like he read the filter, but I think that's exactly what a mafia would do to make it look like he's scumhunting. That was the case against him by kita, he's just looking for a person to vote for, not actually scumhunting, and that's what he did here, again.
Also I think jampidampi seems scummy, but I'm gonna wait for him to follow up on his intentions to push a tamburini lynch today.
If he doesn't want to lynch tambo any more, that implies that he *wanted* to lynch him at some point in the past (which has to be Day 1, given that he didn't post anything during Night 1)!
But he was voting Odin for RNG on Day 1!
Pretty simply, the guy has scumreads, wants to lynch them, and is not voting for them. That does not compute from a town perspective at all. I've been trying to look at his behavior from any perspective I could that could justify it as town behavior, but I cannot figure anything out.
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@ ritoky
I don't have time to read your entire case on me in detail, but I skimmed it briefly and it seems to be pretty similar to the one that Austin made on me Night 1. I spent quite a bit of time/sanity replying to that, so just read my replies. Even I had the time to defend myself, I'm not keen on repeating everything I've said last night, and I have no intention of wasting my time and effort like that again.
Also, please read my cases and tell me if you agree/disagree with them, because blanketing all my analysis as "going after low-postcount people" is a horseshit generalization of my posts.
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Regarding other leading lynch candidates...
Kushm4sta
Foolishness's case aligns with my own Night 1 thoughts, so I'm sympathetic here. However I do believe there's a chance (however small) that Kush can do what he's doing as town. I'd vote him if it were not for Yell0w's behavior.
BlueyD
Not altogether convinced about him. Kita's case is reasonable, but BlueyD's response (of simply being afk to RL reasons, and not being able to post ample justifications) is plausible.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/440546-golden-sun-the-lost-age-mafia-djinn-edition?page=174#3478
One can view it as convenient, but it is definitely plausible, and I'm fairly sympathetic towards it given that I was in a very similar situation on Day 1.
MysteryMeat1
Dear god why is this a wagon? The guy who posts literally nothing is rarely mafia. The fact that he hasn't even attempted to try and blend in this game makes it fairly unlikely he flips mafia IMO.
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On May 25 2014 03:57 austinmcc wrote:
...
Hapa do you think yellow's filter, on the WHOLE is scummy?
I'm fairly unpersuaded by the rest of Yell0w's filter. Sure there are bits and pieces of it that I can agree with and "nod my head" with, but that says very little about his alignment. Until someone can give me any plausible town explanation for his votes (see my post above), there's no way this guy is town.
Like seriously - someone walk me through how his vote makes any sense. The guy's only clear scumread is on tambo, he admitted to wanting to lynch tambo, and did not vote tambo.
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On May 25 2014 12:32 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2014 12:26 Hapahauli wrote:
MysteryMeat1
Dear god why is this a wagon? The guy who posts literally nothing is rarely mafia. The fact that he hasn't even attempted to try and blend in this game makes it fairly unlikely he flips mafia IMO. why you no read 
You want to make him post. Cool.
I mean you're not going to get an afk guy who's not reading the thread to post if he's not around to read your votes. He's not a guy you waste time talking about - if you think he has a chance of flipping mafia, he's a guy you request to be shot, and then move on with your life.
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On May 25 2014 12:36 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2014 21:57 Yell0w wrote:On May 22 2014 21:52 kitaman27 wrote:On May 21 2014 13:56 BlueyD wrote:
I don’t like that the case on mtamburini seems to rely on a single post. It’s a really bad post due to format and scope, but the rest of the filter reads okay. On May 22 2014 13:51 BlueyD wrote:
##vote mtamburini
Don't think Yellow is replying to me tonight so I'll just have to put my vote on who I think is the strongest case now. ##Vote BlueyD I don't think that makes him scum, I think there was a clear progression in his filter from the case his bad, to the case is good after more points where made, to voting for tamburini. Show nested quote +On May 22 2014 22:03 Yell0w wrote:On May 22 2014 21:59 kitaman27 wrote:
Could you show me the posts that back that up? Well the first post you quoted was after only Hapa made the case that tamburini's big post was scummy, which obviously blueyD thought was a weak case, then foolishness made a case, Hapa posted more about it and blueyD said: Whew, back to this. Strongest thing I’ve seen in the last 30 or so pages is this. burini is looking like a decent lynch at the moment.
On May 22 2014 07:02 Hapahauli wrote:
Just to add to this though, I found this post which is all sorts of WAT:
Show nested quote +
Furthermore, the bolded comment is incredibly strange, given that yellow flipped town in the game in-question. You'd think she would exhibit more pause after wanting to lynch a townie for similar rationale, but instead she bolsters her suspicions with it... that just makes very little sense from a town perspective.
Do these two posts seem mafia indicative to you hapa?
They're both null. All he's doing is defending BlueyD, which literally any alignment can do.
So Kita, can you explain his Day 1 play from a town perspective? Can you explain how his only scumread is on tambo, he admitted to wanting to lynch him, and that his vote was on Odin in pure RNG? There was never an "oops I afk'd", or "oops I forgot to vote" or anything. It makes no fucking sense, and everyone's content to ignore it for some reason, in favor of thinking that a bunch of non-allignment indiactive posts in his filter somehow make him a townie.
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On May 25 2014 12:39 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2014 12:16 Hapahauli wrote:
@ ritoky
I don't have time to read your entire case on me in detail, but I skimmed it briefly and it seems to be pretty similar to the one that Austin made on me Night 1. I spent quite a bit of time/sanity replying to that, so just read my replies. Even I had the time to defend myself, I'm not keen on repeating everything I've said last night, and I have no intention of wasting my time and effort like that again.
Also, please read my cases and tell me if you agree/disagree with them, because blanketing all my analysis as "going after low-postcount people" is a horseshit generalization of my posts. I think my case about your uneven criticism/hyprocrisy is fairly unrebutted. I also think your tambo read and its progression is very weird and unrebutted.
Haven't read that, but I suspect a good portion of that read can be explained by the fact that I don't give a shit about pushing any scumread other than yell0w right now.
Also, again you criticize yell0w for wanting to lynch people but not voting/pushing on them. You kinda did that with me...so that just kinda furthers that.
Errr no? My case on yell0w is completely different.
I'm not voting you because I have far bigger scumreads than you. Compared to yell0w, I don't give a flying fuck about lynching you. My top scumread is yell0w and I want him dead.
The difference with yell0w is that...
- His only stated scumread was on mtamburini.
- He kept his vote on Odin despite it being an RNG vote.
- He indirectly admits to wanting to lynch mtamburini.
- There is *nothing* in his filter that suggests he was afk or forgot to change his vote to mtamburini - in fact, he was active 5 hours before the lynch deadline and did not do jack shit with his vote despite having a stated scumread on mtamburini for 12 hours.
Like if you think for two seconds, you can understand why those two scenarios are completely different. I will not defend myself until you can provide me an explanation of how yell0w does this as town.
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On May 25 2014 12:43 marvellosity wrote:
Hapa, would your interpretation change if the red section said " I don't think we should be lynching tamburini today"
Of course. But this is an entirely irrelevant question because he did not type that and instead typed something far more incriminating.
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I could not care less about your incomplete meta read, nor do your "gut" reads explain away his behavior.
Once again, read this, and tell me how it makes sense.
On May 25 2014 12:47 Hapahauli wrote:The difference with yell0w, is that... - His only stated scumread was on mtamburini.
- He kept his vote on Odin despite it being an RNG vote.
- He indirectly admits to wanting to lynch mtamburini.
- There is *nothing* in his filter that suggests he was afk or forgot to change his vote to mtamburini - in fact, he was active 5 hours before the lynch deadline and did not do jack shit with his vote despite having a stated scumread on mtamburini for 12 hours.
If you do not understand how I am drawing these bullet points, I will lay it out for the thread yet again. Like I'm not even asking for a lot - all I ask you to do is give me any *plausible* town explanation for how town-yell0w does those actions.
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Am I the only person who thinks that a town yell0w is good enough at mafia (i.e. knows the most basic of basic objectives of town-play) to vote for his only scumread on Day 1?
If I am incorrect in this assumption, I will scrap my case.
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On May 25 2014 12:58 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2014 12:54 marvellosity wrote:
ritoky: in all fairness, that doesn't answer Hapa's query. about the cases being different? yeah he is mostly right about it, i mostly wanted to prod him a bit more so he would go back and actually read through my stuff and give me a solid response.
Until you display basic reading comprehension, it is a complete waste of my time to defend myself.
You will not understand my defense if you cannot understand a very basic mafia case.
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On May 25 2014 13:03 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2014 12:58 Hapahauli wrote:
Like I'm not even asking for a lot - all I ask you to do is give me any *plausible* town explanation for how town-yell0w does those actions.
ATTENTION AUSTIN.
READ. MY. POSTS.
Sincerely,
Hapa
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On May 25 2014 13:07 austinmcc wrote:
ATTENTION HAPA
YOU WANT A REASON
IF SOMEONE ACTUALLY THINKS THAT AN RNG LYNCH IS A GOOD IDEA, A POSITIVE, WHATEVER
THEN THEY HAVE A REASON TO RNG LYNCH
I see nothing in Yellow's filter that says "AN RNG LYNCH IS A BAD IDEA LET'S NOT DO THAT." I see multiple posts basically plotting the best way to RNG lynch.
If Yellow actively thinks RNG lynching is good, then I can understand what up.
HE ADMITTED TO WANTING TO LYNCH TAMBO ON DAY1. GOOD LORD.
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Fucking fuck all of you. I'm done with this game for a while.
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EPT
